1
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,760
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, where we

2
00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,119
Speaker 1: discussed all things mental health, personal development, and all the

3
00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,120
Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

4
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,

5
00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information

6
00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,920
Speaker 1: and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls

7
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,800
Speaker 1: dot com. And while I hope you love listening to

8
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,159
Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to

9
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental

10
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:47,640
Speaker 1: health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me

11
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 1: for session thirty one of the Therapy for Black Girls podcasts.

12
00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 1: Many of you have been requesting an episode discussing how

13
00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 1: to manage grief, especially as we head into the holiday season,

14
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,720
Speaker 1: so I'm happy her to share this conversation with you

15
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,480
Speaker 1: today that I had with doctor a Jetta Robinson. Doctor

16
00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:12,680
Speaker 1: a Jenda Robinson holds many titles including therapists, educator, speaker,

17
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: and author. She is known as the Expert's Therapists. While

18
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,120
Speaker 1: her accomplishments are expansive, she finds it most empowering to

19
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:27,080
Speaker 1: talk about why she serves. She specializes in grief, loss,

20
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,200
Speaker 1: and trauma because it found her. She is a grief

21
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:36,280
Speaker 1: specialist because she has experienced a variety of life transitions.

22
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 1: She is a wounded healer. Dr Robinson was called to

23
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 1: degreef work with clients and to support clinicians new and

24
00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:52,320
Speaker 1: seasoned in serving through their own losses. She empowers individuals, clinicians, families,

25
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 1: and communities through her clinical practice, speaking engagements, consultations, and

26
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 1: her published work. Dr Robinson believes that we are the

27
00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 1: expert in our lives. She believes we are capable of

28
00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,480
Speaker 1: healing despite the pain we've endured. This process requires that

29
00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,560
Speaker 1: we release ourselves from the burdens of our past, restore

30
00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,800
Speaker 1: our bodies, minds, and souls, and gain a renewed sense

31
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,880
Speaker 1: of purpose in our life. Dr Robinson's goal is to

32
00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,760
Speaker 1: be proof that despite life challenges, you can be your

33
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,840
Speaker 1: best self. Thank you so much for joining me today,

34
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 1: and Jetta, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.

35
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,400
Speaker 1: So I really wanted to bring you on because I've

36
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,359
Speaker 1: had lots of requests for someone who is an expert

37
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,400
Speaker 1: around griefs to come and talk um. So I wanted

38
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,959
Speaker 1: to hear from you how you think therapy is really

39
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 1: helpful for grief. Does it really help to kind of

40
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,240
Speaker 1: just talk about how sad you are? You know it,

41
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 1: really it does. UM therapy can provide a safe space

42
00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 1: that can provide a holding space for clients who often

43
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,399
Speaker 1: feel unsupported in their grief. And so oftentimes it's not

44
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:08,160
Speaker 1: just sadness, it's feeling alone, or feeling guilty or resentment

45
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,040
Speaker 1: and shame. How about that one. So as a society,

46
00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,399
Speaker 1: we don't talk about kind of life's natural counterpart, which

47
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,200
Speaker 1: is dead. And so when we lose someone or something

48
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,519
Speaker 1: physical or symbolic, we're often unequipped to express our feelings

49
00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,680
Speaker 1: to adapt to this new life post loss. So therapy

50
00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,360
Speaker 1: provides a space to seek understanding, to seek healing, and

51
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 1: receive support as we navigate this unknown territory. So you

52
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 1: run up a lot, You've got a lot of good

53
00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,160
Speaker 1: UM nuggets that we want to dive into. So talk

54
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,280
Speaker 1: to me more about the shame piece. What's the shame

55
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 1: that sometimes comes up around grief. So shame can jump

56
00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 1: in a variety of ways. And so shame could be

57
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,280
Speaker 1: because we didn't show up in the relationships the way

58
00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 1: that we had envision or the way that we thought

59
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 1: we had time to do, and so because there might

60
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 1: be distance and how we actually were as we related

61
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,200
Speaker 1: to that person and how we actually wanted to be.

62
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 1: Shame can also show up, um, when we feel relieved

63
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,040
Speaker 1: when someone dies, And sometimes this happens because they have

64
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,960
Speaker 1: been suffering a long time and we're relieved to not

65
00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 1: have to bear witness to that suffering, and that creates

66
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 1: some shame, It can create some guilt. There's other times

67
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,880
Speaker 1: that we experience shame in the way that we're responding

68
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,000
Speaker 1: to grief or responding to the loss when that person

69
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 1: wasn't a good person in our life, but they hold

70
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 1: a position that says we should have a positive memory

71
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,440
Speaker 1: of them. So this could be mothers or fathers or

72
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,560
Speaker 1: other people who are supposed to have protected us or

73
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,080
Speaker 1: to have been good to us in our life and

74
00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,919
Speaker 1: they just work. And so we can create some shame

75
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,359
Speaker 1: or experience some shame as it relates to our ideal

76
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,479
Speaker 1: of those of those people, of those things that we've lost,

77
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 1: And so shame shows up, and it can be a

78
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,559
Speaker 1: difficult one to unpack. Yeah, and I think we don't

79
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,279
Speaker 1: often think about that, right, Like I think, Um, you

80
00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,400
Speaker 1: mentioned the societal expectation that you should you said after

81
00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,840
Speaker 1: somebody passes, But what happens when there was a complicated

82
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,520
Speaker 1: relationship and then you have some feelings that may not

83
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:13,799
Speaker 1: be um, quote unquote socially acceptable. Absolutely, that's a good point.

84
00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,920
Speaker 1: So have you found that there are any themes that

85
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,080
Speaker 1: tend to come up, um, when you're working with clients

86
00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,960
Speaker 1: related to grief. Yes, there are quite a few things,

87
00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,159
Speaker 1: but they're also the midst that impact the greeting process.

88
00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,080
Speaker 1: And so time is a big one. Time shows up

89
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,839
Speaker 1: all the time. Often people come in and say, you know,

90
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,360
Speaker 1: I should be over it by now, and that often

91
00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,359
Speaker 1: is a big thing that gets in the way of

92
00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,480
Speaker 1: the actual grieving process. Um, and I remind clients that grief,

93
00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,599
Speaker 1: the grief process is a journey and time alone will

94
00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 1: not ease the pain of accent It will not alone

95
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 1: lighten the burden of that which is no more. So.

96
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,839
Speaker 1: Grief is a verb in this sense. And so the

97
00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,760
Speaker 1: things that are common with many of our clients are denial,

98
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,400
Speaker 1: there's regret, there's the healing on anchored, and so many

99
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,440
Speaker 1: of our clients fluctuate between kind of accepting the laws.

100
00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,320
Speaker 1: So whether that this loss, maybe the end of a marriage,

101
00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,320
Speaker 1: a miscarriage, the death of a loved one or even

102
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 1: a recent move can kind of trigger this process and

103
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,040
Speaker 1: being able and being in denial about what their new

104
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 1: reality looks like or even being able to find that

105
00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,000
Speaker 1: new reality. And so regret often comes in and that

106
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,280
Speaker 1: shows up in many forms. It can be literally debilitating

107
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,359
Speaker 1: and stop clients from being able to move forward, and

108
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,160
Speaker 1: other times it appears very purposeful. It can create a

109
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,360
Speaker 1: sense of intentionality. Um, we see un anchored clients and

110
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,719
Speaker 1: things of being un anchored a lot. So what do

111
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: we do now? Those are the questions that clients often ask,

112
00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 1: What do I do? What does my life look like?

113
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,480
Speaker 1: And so we assist clients and making meaning of their loss.

114
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: For some this is a spiritual process and others it's

115
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,520
Speaker 1: an action oriented road. Um. And so while grief is universal,

116
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,960
Speaker 1: we all do it differently, and that becomes a theme

117
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,159
Speaker 1: that we have to address, is giving clients permission to

118
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,280
Speaker 1: be on their journey where they are and that it

119
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,280
Speaker 1: is unique experience for each of us. And so those

120
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,240
Speaker 1: are things that show up quite frequently in grief work. Yeah,

121
00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 1: I think you bring up an interesting point around um.

122
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,640
Speaker 1: You know, like we of course think of grief when

123
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 1: someone passes um, But there are other things that trigger

124
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 1: this grief like reaction like, um, you know, like a

125
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,360
Speaker 1: breakup or like you mentioned a move, Um, can you

126
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 1: talk about maybe are there some differences with things like

127
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,000
Speaker 1: that versus like the death of someone. Yeah, it depends

128
00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,000
Speaker 1: on the impact. And so grief often we often focus

129
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 1: on when we do focus on it anyway, are the

130
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 1: physical losses, but there are symbolic losses, and so we

131
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,520
Speaker 1: might lose our mobility. Are elderly and other individuals experience

132
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 1: that a lot, and they UM aren't we aren't don't

133
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,600
Speaker 1: receive the kind of same type of support or can't

134
00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,440
Speaker 1: acknowledge that they are also going through a grief process. Um.

135
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,920
Speaker 1: When we move, even when we look forward to the move,

136
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: we lose the familiar, we lose a sense of safety,

137
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,000
Speaker 1: and so it triggers a grief response. It's very similar

138
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 1: to our physical losses of the loved one, UM, and

139
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,280
Speaker 1: that often lands people in this this space of an

140
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,280
Speaker 1: ambiguous grief. Right. So it's not acknowledged, there's not a

141
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,560
Speaker 1: lot of support around it. We don't know that we're

142
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,800
Speaker 1: actually grieving, especially when it's things that we've chosen, like

143
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 1: we get a new job, right, and but we're new

144
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,600
Speaker 1: at that new job, and there's some rules we have

145
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,720
Speaker 1: to learn, and that can create a sense of loss.

146
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,880
Speaker 1: We lose the safety of knowing what to expect in

147
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,760
Speaker 1: our job or knowing what to expect in our day

148
00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 1: to day. Um. For kids, this happens when they transition

149
00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,120
Speaker 1: from middle school to high school or any transition really

150
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,439
Speaker 1: can trigger this groef response because Greece really is about

151
00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 1: the loss of safety, the loss of the known, and

152
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,720
Speaker 1: trying to adapt to whatever the new reality is. And

153
00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,320
Speaker 1: so yes, that absolutely extends to those symbolic losses. A

154
00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,840
Speaker 1: lot of our listeners may be familiar with, like the

155
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,079
Speaker 1: five stages of brief, right, Like a lot of people

156
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 1: kind of hear those kinds of things. Can you talk

157
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,199
Speaker 1: to us about the stages of grief and if you

158
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,560
Speaker 1: find that kind of model really helpful in your work

159
00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:15,679
Speaker 1: with clients. So I'm gonna say no, okay, Um, So

160
00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,440
Speaker 1: I'll first hear what just kind of stares away from

161
00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 1: the stages because it reinforces this notion that grief is

162
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,320
Speaker 1: a linear process, and it isn't. It often is the

163
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 1: thing that gets us in trouble. Now, I will say

164
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,240
Speaker 1: the stages of grief provide some provided a lot of

165
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 1: foundation UM to really understanding and exploring what grief looks like.

166
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,640
Speaker 1: So recently we think about grief as a process of

167
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,480
Speaker 1: mourning UM and again moved away from a fixed stage

168
00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,960
Speaker 1: model in which everyone goes through the same stages of

169
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,760
Speaker 1: loss in a fixed order. It's it's just not true UM.

170
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,680
Speaker 1: So in our recent models, and I'll focus on J.

171
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,360
Speaker 1: William Warden's model UM where we talk about the task

172
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,240
Speaker 1: UM that can occur, the task of grief, the task

173
00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,960
Speaker 1: of mourning, and these tasks can occur in different orders,

174
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 1: or we can work on several at the same time,

175
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,920
Speaker 1: or even revisit tasks that we felt we had completed

176
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,200
Speaker 1: earlier UM. And so J. William Warden's task model is

177
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 1: one of the more well known, more recent models UM

178
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,960
Speaker 1: in the Greek literature. And so it really involves overcoming

179
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,679
Speaker 1: this disbelief and denial of death by acknowledging and accepting

180
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,560
Speaker 1: the reality of it. And so when someone dies there's

181
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 1: always a sense that it hasn't actually happened. So we

182
00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,960
Speaker 1: have tasks. The first task of the morning process really

183
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,160
Speaker 1: involves recognizing both the emotional and intellectually that the person

184
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,840
Speaker 1: is dead and is not going to return, so we

185
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,679
Speaker 1: have rituals built in our society that help us with that.

186
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,520
Speaker 1: So funerals are are one of those rituals that help

187
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,960
Speaker 1: many people move forward towards being able to accept the

188
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,960
Speaker 1: reality and the finality of death. Often Productive Morning acknowledges

189
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 1: that it is appropriate that we experience pain during bereavement,

190
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,880
Speaker 1: as long as the ways that we're expanding the pain

191
00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,280
Speaker 1: aren't overwhelming for the brief person. That's a second task

192
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,560
Speaker 1: is really being able to kind of feel what we're feeling.

193
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,120
Speaker 1: Um and processing the pain of grief help prevent us

194
00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:11,720
Speaker 1: from carrying that pain into future relationships or future grief work,

195
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,360
Speaker 1: because it certainly can complicate those experiences, and so being

196
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,600
Speaker 1: with supportive people can validate our feelings and help us

197
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,000
Speaker 1: address that pain. The other kind of task is that

198
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,800
Speaker 1: the loss of a loved one requires that we make

199
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,679
Speaker 1: external as well as internal and spiritual adjustments, and so

200
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 1: we have to adjust to the fact that the diseases

201
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,200
Speaker 1: no longer physically with us, which allows us to move

202
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,400
Speaker 1: forward after the death. Depending on one's spiritual framework, it

203
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,360
Speaker 1: might be an opportunity for us to explore what our

204
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,760
Speaker 1: fundamental assumptions are about the world and how that leads

205
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,280
Speaker 1: us to in a direction of life without this person

206
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,720
Speaker 1: and then the not final task because this process can

207
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 1: be an ongoing space of renewal for us. But one

208
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,880
Speaker 1: of the challenges that we we also have to tackle

209
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,440
Speaker 1: is to find a way to stay connected to the

210
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 1: disease without preventing ourselves from being able to go on

211
00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,360
Speaker 1: with life without that person. And so it's not that

212
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,800
Speaker 1: the disease has forgotten, but that the bereaved finds enjoyment

213
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 1: in life again. And so that is the meaning making

214
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,440
Speaker 1: process that we often have the opportunity to bear witness

215
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,240
Speaker 1: to as therapists. Um It allows the client to access

216
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,719
Speaker 1: memories and feelings and thoughts of the bereave without being overwhelmed.

217
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 1: And so there's no timeline to completing these tasks, although

218
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,080
Speaker 1: they generally occur over months for years for some not

219
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 1: days or weeks as we often kind of think about.

220
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,839
Speaker 1: Our society really enforces this days and weeks peace right.

221
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 1: It's inherent in how much time you get off from

222
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,560
Speaker 1: your work depending on who it was that died, and

223
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,199
Speaker 1: so um Wolden points out that while it's essential to

224
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,400
Speaker 1: address these tasks in order to adjust to loss, not

225
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,240
Speaker 1: every loss experience is challenges us in the same way,

226
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,800
Speaker 1: and so the important piece to kind of walk away

227
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,320
Speaker 1: with this. So although grief and loss is universal, the

228
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,320
Speaker 1: way we experienced it is unique and individualized to each

229
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,960
Speaker 1: of us, and so allowing our self permission to actually grieve,

230
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:15,040
Speaker 1: um is important. This model definitely sounds UM much more

231
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,000
Speaker 1: comprehensive and like realistic to what grief actually looks like,

232
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,320
Speaker 1: as opposed to like, okay, this is step one, this

233
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,400
Speaker 1: is step two, Um. Even though in that old model

234
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,079
Speaker 1: there was some like understanding of recycling, this new model

235
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,840
Speaker 1: definitely sounds much more comprehensive and like person friendly. Yes, actually,

236
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,960
Speaker 1: and that cultural kind of sensitivity as well. Absolutely. Yeah.

237
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 1: So something that you mentioned, UM, and I want to

238
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 1: talk more about is this idea of complicated grief. So

239
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,839
Speaker 1: you mentioned that briefly, and we definitely have seen more

240
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,320
Speaker 1: come out around that. Can you talk to us about

241
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,480
Speaker 1: what complicated grief is and how it may be different

242
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 1: from like just typical grief, sure, and so complicated grief

243
00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,880
Speaker 1: is a proposed diagnosis, UM, so it often is prolonged

244
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,080
Speaker 1: grief that doesn't kind of contain that MENI making process

245
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,440
Speaker 1: where the adaptation that we typically see following grief, and

246
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,680
Speaker 1: so complicated grief may UM. We might see that if

247
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,760
Speaker 1: an individual continues to have trouble carrying out normal routines,

248
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,760
Speaker 1: or they begin to isolate or even withdraw from social activities, UM,

249
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,160
Speaker 1: we might see a couple with depression, deep sadness, guilt

250
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,880
Speaker 1: and self blame. So again we're looking at some of

251
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 1: these same things that are typical in grief, but they

252
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,400
Speaker 1: are exacerbated or prolonged. And so you might also see

253
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 1: clients experience UM or say things like they believe that

254
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,640
Speaker 1: they did something wrong or that they could have done

255
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,080
Speaker 1: something to prevent the death and that is not reasonable

256
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,680
Speaker 1: or realistic UM. And and when it perhaps is they

257
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 1: could have done something, that certainly can complicate their grieving

258
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,880
Speaker 1: process because that certainly creates a space of guilt and

259
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,440
Speaker 1: self blame UM. When an individual has difficulty feeling that

260
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,359
Speaker 1: life is worth living after that the loved one is

261
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,200
Speaker 1: is no longer within UM. And when we have clients

262
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,520
Speaker 1: who say things UM such as they wish they had

263
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,680
Speaker 1: died along with their loved ones, these are all things

264
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,440
Speaker 1: that are indicative of complicated grieving UM. And so those

265
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 1: are things that we look out for UM that requires

266
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,000
Speaker 1: a different level of care, a different level of processing

267
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,360
Speaker 1: and unpacking for the client. Where we start UM with

268
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,400
Speaker 1: clients with complicated grief might look like how we start

269
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,479
Speaker 1: with clients who have experienced a trauma, because for many

270
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 1: it is a very traumatic experience UM, and so we

271
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,160
Speaker 1: might have to start with we can't start with the

272
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 1: meaning making process, they're not there. We may often need

273
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 1: to start with first challenging some of those UM distorted

274
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 1: thoughts that might be a function of the grief UM

275
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,240
Speaker 1: and so again a different space. It's just a different

276
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,120
Speaker 1: starting point. We always start with creating safety and normalizing

277
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,400
Speaker 1: UM what they're experiencing. But again we might have to

278
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 1: start in the thoughts that are contributing to the withdrawal

279
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 1: before we can really unpack the actual grief. Are there

280
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 1: any like indicators of what might trigger a complicated grief response? Like,

281
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,360
Speaker 1: are there some UM kind of precursors or like pre

282
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 1: existing kinds of things that might lead to somebody having

283
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 1: a complicated grief reaction? Sure? So pre existing history absolutely

284
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,160
Speaker 1: can predict complicated grief. And so individuals who already experience

285
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 1: major depression or suicidal ideation, we see it when individuals

286
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,600
Speaker 1: UM the individual who is deceased UM was an abuser

287
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: of the griever and so that certainly can complicate the

288
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:46,240
Speaker 1: grieving process and UM create a prolonged grief experience for

289
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,600
Speaker 1: some UM. But there's certainly UM when substance abuse can

290
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,080
Speaker 1: complicate the grieving process, often because that isolation is already

291
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,360
Speaker 1: a part of their UM, their coping UM, and so

292
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 1: grief exacerbates the isolation as well as the UM the

293
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,400
Speaker 1: withdrawing from social activities often over we might be hiding

294
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,880
Speaker 1: our substance use. And so again grief compounds were amplifies

295
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,080
Speaker 1: UM existing patterns UM, and so those are certainly things

296
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,600
Speaker 1: that can predispose people to experience complicated grief. And another

297
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:23,400
Speaker 1: one that UM we often overlook is the cumulative effect

298
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,199
Speaker 1: of unresolved grief can complicated and so each grief experience

299
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 1: that we have is both unique and different UM. But

300
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,199
Speaker 1: those unresolved past losses show up each time we have

301
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,720
Speaker 1: a new one UM, and they don't have to be related.

302
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,159
Speaker 1: They could be completely different losses. But it is that

303
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 1: process of recovery that we may not have completed em

304
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 1: prior losses that gets complicated by the IT triggers and

305
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 1: shows up when we are grieving. What does this actually

306
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,480
Speaker 1: look like in practice? Um? You know, so, like what

307
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 1: or maybe some of the strategies that you're using to

308
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,959
Speaker 1: help someone make meaning um. And you also mentioned this

309
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 1: idea of like somebody not feeling overwhelmed by the experience

310
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,119
Speaker 1: of grief. So I'm wondering, like, what kinds of strategies

311
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,440
Speaker 1: you might use to help them maybe to be able

312
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,359
Speaker 1: to tolerate um, the experience of even talking about some

313
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 1: of this stuff. Mm hmmm. So we often begin with

314
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 1: psycho education about grief. We have to normalize this thing. Again,

315
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 1: as a society, we don't talk about grief, we don't

316
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 1: talk about death. Until many of us have faulty beliefs

317
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:34,479
Speaker 1: about grief and what's normal. Our society reinforces these faulty beliefs,

318
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,919
Speaker 1: and so we often start with the debunking process. And

319
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,920
Speaker 1: so that's key to helping clients be able to begin

320
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 1: the grief process. And so we start with things like

321
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,640
Speaker 1: helping them be in their bodies and feel what they're

322
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,480
Speaker 1: feeling and talking about it and normalizing the sadness and

323
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,959
Speaker 1: normalizing the need to cry and express those things. We

324
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 1: use a variety of different approaches that it is individualized

325
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: to the client and the goal that they have of

326
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 1: their grief learning. And so we encourage the VERAF to

327
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 1: make a healthy emotional withdrawal from the deceased UM in

328
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 1: a way that makes meaning for them and makes sense

329
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 1: for them, but also to we invest that energy in

330
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 1: in new relationships and a new relationship to the diseased. UM.

331
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 1: We utilize me oritive therapy. We utilize a lot of

332
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,879
Speaker 1: meaning making exercises UM, such as honoring rituals and so

333
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,880
Speaker 1: for some families UM that looks like UM creating new

334
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 1: rituals around holidays UM to honor the deceased. I've seen

335
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 1: couples and clients and incorporate the decease into their marriage ceremonies. UM.

336
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,200
Speaker 1: One thing that's important is that we utilize the existing strengths.

337
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: We utilize the communities that of support that already exists.

338
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,400
Speaker 1: For some clients that UM incorporates the religion and spirituality,

339
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 1: but being connected to people who love them and support

340
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 1: them are huge sources. Those are strategies that we UM

341
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,400
Speaker 1: that we often used to help clients navigate their griefs.

342
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 1: Who are who are their people that already exist within

343
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,640
Speaker 1: their support system and helping them build community, and we

344
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: know that there are amazing foundations that were founded as

345
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 1: a result of grief and being able to make meaning

346
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,439
Speaker 1: of losing someone, UM, And so we help clients and

347
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 1: being able to do that again on a very individualized

348
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 1: UM in a very individualized way. I have definitely found

349
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:31,719
Speaker 1: that grief typically strikes hardest at night for some reason, UM,

350
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 1: can you talk more about like why that is and

351
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 1: maybe some tips for like managing grief particularly at night. Sure,

352
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,640
Speaker 1: so we're quiet, We're still at night, right, We our

353
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 1: mind and our body UM have a space to process

354
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 1: what we've likely avoided with the business of our day,

355
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 1: and so we need to be mindful that your body

356
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: is doing what it needs to do. Grief is a

357
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,639
Speaker 1: normal and natural process, and so to some extent, we

358
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: talked to clients about anticipating the grief first FONTS by

359
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 1: developing a bedtime routine. This might be talking to a

360
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 1: friend or a partner is about what you're feeling. This

361
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: might include journaling. We often teach clients to breathe through

362
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,879
Speaker 1: their grief because often we and anticipation and out of

363
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: anks and anxiety, we stop breathing in a way that's

364
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 1: actually healthy for us UM. We try to avoid the

365
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 1: feelings that are coming and grief for rechoirs that we

366
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 1: engage in. It is a gift UM that often is

367
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: born a deep and profound love and connection, and so

368
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: being able to honor that is important, so access in

369
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: prayer but UM. The takeaway here is that we teach

370
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 1: clients to embrace that piece UM that can come if

371
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: we feel what we feel UM and having support to

372
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 1: be there when we're not okay, then being able to

373
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 1: acknowledge that we're not okay. The more we acknowledge where

374
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: we are on our grief process, the easier it becomes

375
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: to you to carry UM. And so knowing that that

376
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 1: is normal and natural allows us to access our support

377
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: system and ask for help. And sometimes it's having someone

378
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: sit with you while you cry, or sit with you

379
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 1: while you journal UM. It isn't always talking through what

380
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: you're experiencing, but knowing that you're not alone. It sounds

381
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: like you do quite a bit of education, which you

382
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: mentioned UM, which I think is exciting and I think

383
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 1: it also speaks to the piece of UM, like when

384
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,120
Speaker 1: we have a friend who has lost someone like there's

385
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety that sometimes comes up for us

386
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 1: because we don't know what to say, so to speak, UM.

387
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: But I think you bring up a great point of

388
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: sometimes it is just sitting with someone and allowing them

389
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 1: to cry and not necessarily feeling the need to say

390
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: something because of course there's nothing you can say that

391
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: will make everything okay. Absolutely a big part of this

392
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: grief process is being seen and being heard. And so

393
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: if you can give the gift of bear and witness

394
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: to someone else's grief just by holdings space and checking

395
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: in with them, that can be a very profound experience

396
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,919
Speaker 1: for the brave. UM. There's a lot of business that

397
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: happens around the funerals, and then you know, two to

398
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: three weeks later, we're all busy, we've gone back to

399
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: our life, and those who are still grieving are kind

400
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: of left alone, forced to pretend that they're okay and

401
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: they're not UM. And so if we can normalize that

402
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: that is a process that again amplifies these existing dynamics

403
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: and hold space for them, we can help support them

404
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: in this journey. And you can say more about UM,

405
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: like some of the societal ways that we have kind

406
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: of um like made grief a bad thing, Like you

407
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: mentioned UM like even in our HR policy sometimes you know,

408
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: you get at the most, I think five days off

409
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: if it's like a very close relative. Are there other

410
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: societal things that you can think of that really kind

411
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 1: of uphold these ways of breathing that aren't really healthy

412
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: for people. Well, we say things like my cell phone died.

413
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: How are kids supposed to understand that it is final? Right?

414
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: We just recharge that thing and it works again. Embedded

415
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: in our our language, the way that we talk about it,

416
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: but more importantly, the way that we do not talk

417
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: about death. We think, um, we have time, we don't

418
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: talk about how we want to die, and we don't

419
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: talk about what happens after after we die, and so

420
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 1: our family is left scrambling trying to figure out how

421
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: do we want to be very do we want to

422
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: be cremated? Do you know what do we do with

423
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: the family house? And so it is and it's a

424
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: part of every aspect of our life, and we don't

425
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: talk about it. We've convinced ourselves that it's the elderly

426
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: that die, and so we have time to talk about

427
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: how we want to live. We don't talk about the things,

428
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: the losses that we experience every day. The losses and friendships,

429
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: the loss of safety, the cost of succeeding, and so

430
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: the higher we climb economically, the less support we typically have.

431
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: Those are all losses, and we don't talk about those things.

432
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: We just talk about the benefits that come with those

433
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: different moves and transitions. And so it's we could be

434
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: here all day everywhere. Um that grief and loss is

435
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: their taboos and so that they're just a part of

436
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: our normal, our normal avoidance of reality. Yeah, that's great.

437
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: Is that I think it sounds like you are kind

438
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: of advocating for really having some of these conversations, you know,

439
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: very early with family members, kind of talking about what

440
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: to expect, how you want to be buried, what kind

441
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: of memorial do you want, you know, like just making

442
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: that a normal kind of like family planning and so

443
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: to speak. Absolutely, it's a part of the living process, right,

444
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: so that we can die as well as we live.

445
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: But we we are unintentional about that process because we

446
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: are avoiding it. It's a universal truth and we don't

447
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: want to discuss it because it's an unknown. It's a

448
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: fear for many of us, which means we are ill

449
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: equipped to talk to children about death. And dying, were

450
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 1: ill equipped to talk to them and to assist them

451
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: in many cases even recognize when children are grieving and

452
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: how they grieve. And so we spend a lot of

453
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: time talking to parents and communities and families about what

454
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: that looks like, how do we support ourselves, but also

455
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: how do we explain this process and what this means

456
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: for kids and two kids and so, UM, grief is

457
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: a topic that we avoid at all costs, but it's

458
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: one that it's none of us escape this life without

459
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: experiencing it at some point. So related to that, can

460
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: you offer us some of your favorite resources for talking

461
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: about grief, for helping to manage some of the experiences

462
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: of grief. Sure, so there, UM. I like using bibliotherapy.

463
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: So there's several books we have, one The Gift of

464
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: Grief UM. We also recommend Out of the Darkness. That's

465
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: another book that we like. UM. Other resources are really

466
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: the creating rituals for grieving UM, and this is unique

467
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: to each family. UM. We utilize mindfulness based approaches, which

468
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: again can help with the meaning making and recovery process.

469
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: There are entire groups dedicated to different types of losses,

470
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 1: and so almost everyone you can name there's We were

471
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: recently at a cemetery that had a workshop. We did

472
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: a workshop for individuals who have lost the pick, because

473
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: that certainly is a type of grief and loss that's

474
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: often unrecognized, um in that way, and so our favorite resource,

475
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 1: hands down is connecting folks to community, and so that

476
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: could be their family, that could be a larger community

477
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: who have shared losses. And so again, UM, we use

478
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: a variety of approaches in our practice. We have an

479
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: art therapist, we have a dance therapist, because we know

480
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: grief is a full body experience, and so we encourage clients,

481
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: We encourage clinicians and other members of the community to

482
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: lean into the things that already helped them cope. And

483
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: so for some that's running, for some that's other you know,

484
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: we eating, and so we incorporate those things that are

485
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: meaningful to our clients in their plans. And so think

486
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: about what already works for you and see about adding

487
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: that to your grief journey. Can you tell us more

488
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: about your practice and is there any news that you'd

489
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: like to share about what you all are doing. Absolutely so,

490
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: thank you for that opportunity. UM. So my practice as

491
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: friends and transition Counseling Services UM. We are located in Bethesda, Maryland.

492
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: We will be opening our DC office in January, so

493
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: we're very very excited about that. UM. We do have

494
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: the book The Gift of Grief, which is available on

495
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: our website. We provide a variety of workshops locally and

496
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: across the country on a variety different topics. Most relevant

497
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,239
Speaker 1: to this discussion is serving as a wounded healer and

498
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: so we talk to clinicians and other specialists who are

499
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: working with the brief on how we do that when

500
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: we two are grieving. That's an important talk that UM

501
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: we do all over the country for families and communities

502
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: on grief and law US and so we serve the

503
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: community by offering consultations and educational trainings UM. Most recently,

504
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: one of our group that's pretty popular is a group

505
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: or children whose parents have divorced and separated. And again

506
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: that's another space where we missed the Greek process for

507
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: kids UM and for those adults going through those transitions,

508
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: and so that's one that is UM filling up quite

509
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: quickly and so we're very excited about that. So UM,

510
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: that's what we have going on, and where can we

511
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: find you? Online. Are there any social media? Is that

512
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: social media handles that you want to share? Sure? We

513
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: are on Twitter and so our Twitter is f I

514
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: T Underscore Counseling, and we are on Facebook. Our name

515
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: is Friends and Transition Counseling Services. Perfect. Well, thank you

516
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: so much for sharing their wealth of knowledge with us

517
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: today a jetta. Thank you for having me, It was

518
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: a pleasure. Dr Robinson and I discuss how therapy can

519
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: be helpful in working through grief, how we can have

520
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: grief reactions to lots of different changes in our lives,

521
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: and how those stages of grief you've learned about might

522
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: not be so helpful moving forward. I really enjoy chatting

523
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: with Dr Robinson and hope that our conversation offers some

524
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: strategies for how to help if you're grieving or maybe

525
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: gave you a different way of thinking about grief. Be

526
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: sure to check out the resources she mentioned in the

527
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: show notes. You can find those at Therapy for Black

528
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash Session thirty one. And please let

529
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: us know what you thought about the episode. You know

530
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: we love to hear your feedback. Be sure to use

531
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: the hashtag TPG in session. You can find us on Twitter.

532
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: At Therapy for the Number four be Girls and on

533
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls. And you know,

534
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: we always love welcoming new members into the tribe. To

535
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: be sure to share this episode or your other favorite

536
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: episode with someone new and then join us over in

537
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: the face a group at Therapy for Black Girls dot

538
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: com backslash tribe. If you're looking for a therapist on

539
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: your city, be sure to check out the directory at

540
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com backslash directory. And I'm

541
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: very excited to share that I will be starting at

542
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: least one new therapy group in my practice in January.

543
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: So if you are in the Atlanta area and interested

544
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: in participating in one of the therapy groups, I'll be

545
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: running head on over to Therapy for Black Girls dot

546
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: com backslash shift as H I F T and add

547
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: your name to the list to be notified about all

548
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: of the details. Thank you all again so much for

549
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: joining me this week, and I'm looking forward to continuing

550
00:31:43,680 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: this conversation with you all real soon. I doctor actor,

551
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: I doctor actor actor Hotter