1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning, 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: episode is going to be a longer one part of 4 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: a series where I interview fascinating people about how they 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: take their days from great to awesome and their advice 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: for the rest of us. So today I am delighted 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: to welcome Dana K. White to the program. Dana is 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: a decluttering expert, the author of Organizing for the Rest 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: of Us, and most recently a book called Jesus Doesn't 10 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: Care About Your Messy House. She's created numerous helpful YouTube videos. 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people you know listening to 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,319 Speaker 1: the show have watched for people looking to get their 13 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: homes and lives under control. So Dana, welcome to the show. 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me on. 15 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, glad to have you. So maybe you could introduce 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: yourself to our listeners. What you're up to these days? 17 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: Well, I'm Dana KA White. I always put the K in, 18 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: so we don't, you know, get confused and think you're 19 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: talking to the guy who runs the UFC, because that's 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 2: not me. 21 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: Not talking to him to know, not today, you know, anyotherday. 22 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: So I am a mom of three young adults, so 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 2: I was an empty nester for two days and then 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: my one of them said, you know what, I think 25 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,559 Speaker 2: I'm gonna do this semester from home, and I was like. 26 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: Okay, So that was the end of that. Yeah. 27 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: No, I mean, it's it's that phase of life where 28 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: you're just like whatever, anything's great, whatever, you know, And 29 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: I teach people how to declutter even though this is 30 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: the thing that I struggled with my entire life, and 31 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: actually because it's the thing I struggled with my entire life, 32 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: because this does not come naturally to me, So I 33 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: don't teach it out of a place of Wow, I'm 34 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: so good at this, everybody else should be good at 35 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: it too. It's more like, oh, I get how hard 36 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: this is and I've had to figure it out. So 37 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: so it's been more of a journey for absolutely, absolutely 38 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: And how did you? 39 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: So? Then, how does one establish oneself as a decluttering 40 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: expert if this is something that isn't so easy for you? 41 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: I mean, how have you gone about doing that? 42 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: Well? It was not my intention. I will tell you 43 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: that I just wanted to be a writer, and I 44 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 2: was stopped from doing that because I just had it 45 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: in my head. I was like, I have got to 46 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: get my house under control first. I'm not saying you 47 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: have to have your house under control in order to 48 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 2: do the thing you want to do, but it was 49 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 2: stopping me right. Like, I found out what blogs were 50 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 2: back in two thousand and eight, and I was like, 51 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: that's it. I've got to have one. And I had 52 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 2: been trying so hard to get my house under control, 53 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 2: and I was like, I can't take on another thing 54 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: until I get this figured out. And so I didn't 55 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: start my blog for a year and a half, and 56 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: I started it as a practice blog, Like I thought 57 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: that I was going to write about getting my house 58 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: under control as a way to stay focused on that 59 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: and figure it out, and then start writing about things 60 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: I actually felt qualified to write about. Right, So in 61 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: the beginning it was anonymous. I didn't even tell my 62 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 2: husband what I was doing for like at least a month, 63 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 2: and I was just trying to figure it out. Had 64 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: no intention of teaching anyone any of this stuff. Like actually, 65 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: as people started to read it and they're like, can 66 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: you teach us what you're doing? And I would say, 67 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: why in the world would anyone want to learn about 68 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: this from me. I'm like no, no, I am like 69 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: struggling my way through. And after about two and a 70 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: half years, I had my house at a point where 71 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I get it now, like I 72 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: know what to do. I know what I was doing wrong. 73 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: And when people would ask me that, I finally said, 74 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: you know what, I cannot tell you how to have 75 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: a perfect house, but I can tell you how to 76 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: go from completely overwhelmed and hopeless to oh, Okay, I 77 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: get it now, you know. And so that is my 78 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: niche or niche or however you like to say it. 79 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: Well, I'm very curious what made it so overwhelming? I 80 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: mean I sort of think, like, you know, being paralyzed 81 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: and unable to write or something that you must have 82 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: been like sitting under giant piles of furniture or something. 83 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: I mean, what was going on with the house that 84 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: made it so out of control? You know? 85 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:22,119 Speaker 2: It was just a constant disaster. Okay, So I could 86 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: have people over. I just needed two weeks to get ready, 87 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: that's all. So all I needed was so I would 88 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: take the first week to you know, declutter. I'm making 89 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: air quotes as I say that I would take the 90 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: first week to declutter, which really just meant I shoved 91 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: everything into my husband's bedroom because that was the door 92 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: I could lock, right, I would shove everything in there, 93 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: and then I would clean for a week because you 94 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 2: can't actually claim when there's clutter everywhere, right, And so 95 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: it was just a constant disaster. And I could get 96 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: my house under control, but I treated it like a project. 97 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 2: And so I would like, you know, take everything else 98 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: off the calendar on my house, get it, you know, 99 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: basically under control, and then think, okay, who, I'm done, right, 100 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: and then it would go right back to being a disaster. 101 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: Things I didn't know I had more stuff than I 102 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: could possibly handle. I had more stuff than I had 103 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 2: places to put stuff. And I didn't understand that correlation, right, 104 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: because I'm a highly creative person and I don't see limits, 105 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 2: and so, you know, that just didn't occur to me 106 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 2: that the too much stuff was the actual issue that 107 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 2: I had. So when I say that my house was 108 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: a disaster, I mean that I avoided having people come over, 109 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: or when I did have them come over, it was 110 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: a huge stressful deal. And so, yeah, go. 111 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: Ahead, Yeah, was that the most common issue? Then? When 112 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: people feel like their homes are overwhelming and out of control. 113 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: Is it that they have too much stuff? 114 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: Generally, yes, it's that and its routines. Like I always 115 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: tell people to start with the routines because part of 116 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: my issue was I always thought, what is the point 117 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 2: of any kind of a maintenance task when my house 118 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 2: is a total disaster. I need to get it under 119 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 2: control and then start maintaining. That never worked. What actually 120 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 2: did work was when I started doing those maintenance type 121 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 2: tasks before it was any better. Like, I just started 122 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 2: with the maintenance tasks that started to change my home. 123 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 2: At the same time, the more I did that, it 124 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: freed up time for me to get stuff out of 125 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: my house. And so those two things are equally important. 126 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: You really can't have one without the other. But in general, yes, 127 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 2: most people's issues are that they have too much stuff. 128 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: Well, it's an easy thing to have happen. And this is, 129 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: you know, running not too long after the holidays, because 130 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of folks have just gotten a 131 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: whole news shipment of stuff into their homes. I mean, well, 132 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: what can you do if you find you have too 133 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: much stuff? Let's start with the getting rid of some 134 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: of this stuff first, and then we can talk about 135 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: the routines that are helpful for maintenance. 136 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. So the number one thing that I recommend, and 137 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: this is all based in my own experience, is that 138 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: you should prioritize decluttering according to the most visible spaces 139 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: in your home. This is actually the opposite of what 140 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: most of us naturally tend to do. We tend to 141 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: think I need to declutter, and we start with the 142 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: linen closet, or we start with the top shelf of 143 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: the closet, you know, some obscure place where maybe we've 144 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: been thinking about, oh that needs to be dealt with, oh, 145 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: you know, or maybe it's that if I work on 146 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: this space and we don't really use it that often, 147 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: then maybe it'll stay decluttered. Right. But the problem with 148 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: that is that you put all this time and energy 149 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: into this space that you don't see and use consistently, 150 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 2: and therefore you're not seeing the results of the work 151 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: that you've done. And if you've spent all day decluttering 152 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: a back closet and then the doorbell rings and you're 153 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: still embarrassed to open the front door, or you let 154 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: somebody in and they say what you've been doing today? 155 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: And you say, well, I've been decluttering, and you see 156 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: their eyes look around like really, you know, and that 157 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: is so defeating, right, Like, it's so incredibly defeating to 158 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: have that happen that it makes you just feel like, 159 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: what's the point. But if you start in a visible space, 160 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: then the progress that you're gonna that you're gonna make 161 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 2: is something that you're gonna experience. You're gonna experience the 162 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: benefits of it. You're gonna see even though you walked 163 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: past that mess for months. Now you walk by and 164 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: it's clear and you're like, oh, that looks so good, 165 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 2: and it increases that decluttering energy. So it helps to 166 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 2: perpetuate your uh, decluttering energy and build that momentum that 167 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: everybody is looking for. So that's the number one thing 168 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: that as far as how to start decluttering. I have 169 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: my no Mess decluttering process, right, which is designed to 170 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: make progress and only progress. Never end up creating a 171 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: worse mess than you have before. Like you know how 172 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: everybody always says, oh, it has to get worse before 173 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: it gets better. That's not true. 174 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: You know, don't make it worse for it. So you 175 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: are not saying we should put everything in the middle 176 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: of the floor, took everything out of every kitchen drawer. 177 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: I and then and then you know, something happens. You're 178 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: pulled away, I gotta go pick a kid up from school, sick, 179 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: and then the mess is worse than it ever. 180 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 2: Was, well exactly. And you know a lot of the 181 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 2: people who send me emails will say, well, I did that, 182 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: and then I had stuff all over the floor for 183 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: six months, you know, or what I even without it 184 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: being that extreme method, I thought that the way you 185 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: had to declutter was to pull everything out of the space, 186 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: Like I just I thought that's what everybody said you 187 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 2: were supposed to do, and so I would try that, 188 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: and every single time I would end up overwhelmed and 189 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: defeated because I never finished it, you know, And so 190 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: it was worse than it was before, and I would 191 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 2: shove it all back in and where I used to 192 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 2: kind of know where things were in the pile, now 193 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: I had no idea. So yeah, so as first starting, 194 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: we start with the trash, like we just start one 195 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: item at a time pulling it out, and then I, 196 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 2: you know, my five step process takes you all the 197 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 2: way through, but it helps me know what to remove first, 198 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 2: and item that I remove makes me a little bit 199 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: less overwhelmed, helps me understand what I'm dealing with so 200 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 2: that when I do get to the point where I'm 201 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: making actual decisions, I'm ready for that. 202 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, we're going to take a quick ad break 203 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: and then I will be right back with Dana K. 204 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: White talking about decluttering. Well, I am back with before 205 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: breakfast interviewing Dana K. White, a decluttering expert. So we've 206 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: been talking about not pulling all the things out of 207 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: the every door, putting it on the floor, and then 208 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: winding up with stuff there for six months. First we're 209 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: going to get rid of the trash, I believe. The 210 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: next thing is we're going to get rid of any 211 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: dirty dishes or laundry. Right is that the next day? 212 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 2: Well, the next step is the easy stuff, which may 213 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 2: include dishes or laundry. Not the dishes and laundry or 214 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: easy like, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is 215 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: emotionally easy, meaning I already know what to do. Right, 216 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 2: So the easy stuff is anything that I already know 217 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 2: what to do with it, that already has an established home. 218 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 2: I just have to do the thing. Sometimes I call 219 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: this per crest to clutter right, it's stuff that's laying around. 220 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: Like you, if you really work hard on your living 221 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: room and yet there is a recliner piled high with 222 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 2: clean laundry, your living room doesn't actually look like it's 223 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 2: been decluttered, right, because that iesore is there. But it's 224 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: easy to be like, oh, I'll get to that later 225 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 2: when I'm not decluttering. But it's important to get that 226 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: step done so that you have the actual benefit of 227 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: what you're doing. 228 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 1: And then after that that's when you tackle the more 229 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: difficult thing. 230 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. Next, the next step in my five steps is 231 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: the obvious donations, so I call them the duh donations, 232 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 2: Like why do I even have this? I don't have 233 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 2: to think about it. I'm just gonna go ahead and 234 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: get those out because again, with everything that leaves now 235 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: I can see more clearly what I'm actually dealing with. 236 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: And then at that point that's when I ask my 237 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: decluttering questions. That's step four. 238 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: All right, what are those real? 239 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: Quick? Let's run through. So there's only two and if 240 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 2: you if you can answer the first one, you don't 241 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 2: have to even ask the second one. So the question 242 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 2: declaring question number one is if I needed this item, 243 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: where would I look for it first, And it has 244 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: to be asked like that, Like, it's not where should 245 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 2: it go, It's not where would it be? It is 246 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: where would I look for it first? If I already 247 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: knew where it went it left in step two, right, Like, 248 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: I'm only asking this question because I literally don't know 249 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: where this thing goes. It doesn't have a home in 250 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 2: my house. And this is how I give it a home. 251 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 2: Where would I look first at the beginning of what 252 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: I assume is going to be a three hour search 253 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: tearing apart my house looking for this item. Right, So 254 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 2: where's the first place where I would look? And then 255 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: I take it to that place right now? Because this 256 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 2: is the key to the no mess, right, is to 257 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 2: go ahead and do the thing so that when I 258 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: get distracted, when I get overwhelmed, when I just am 259 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: like I'm done, I'm out. I can't do this anymore. 260 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: I have only made progress. I haven't made any piles, 261 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: i haven't put things in boxes to deal with later. 262 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 2: I've made real progress. And that's a game changer for 263 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 2: me and for so many people. 264 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, what I love about this is I mean people 265 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: hear that and they're like, well, that's incredibly inefficient, waste time, 266 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: and it was like, well, sure, but you know we 267 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: could probably all use a little bit more exercise. Well, 268 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: and you're running up and down the stairs a few 269 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: more times. It is It's not the end of the world. 270 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 2: And it's so funny to me because I like, I 271 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 2: get emails from people pretty much every single day saying 272 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: I had all the reasons why this was a terrible 273 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 2: idea and so inefficient, and then I tried it. So 274 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 2: I'm always like, just try it because people are like, 275 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 2: I can't believe the power of actually being done with 276 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: that small thing. Because here's the real opposite of efficiency 277 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 2: is when you make little piles or you put things 278 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: in a box to go take to their homes later, 279 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 2: and then you have to go back through the piles 280 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: and ask yourself the question again to remember where it 281 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 2: was that you were supposed to put that thing, right, Like, 282 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: that's the opposite of efficient, cause you're redoing your work 283 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 2: and I need to just go ahead and do that thing. 284 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: Act on. The other thing that happens when I do 285 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 2: that is I face the reality of the space. Because 286 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 2: if I'm not actually going to that space right now 287 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 2: where I say I would look for it first. I 288 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: may be picturing a space like a cabinet that has 289 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: plenty of room in there for this random mug, and 290 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: then I actually get to the cabinet and I realize, oh, 291 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: I've got seventeen of this mechanical pencil that I said 292 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 2: I would look for here first. Oh okay, or this 293 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: drawer where I say I would look for it first 294 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 2: won't even close, you know. And so it's this reality 295 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: check instead of just this fantasy land of oh, yeah, 296 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: i'll do this later, I'll do this later, I'll do 297 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: this later. But I'm gonna face that reality and I'm 298 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 2: really moving actually forward in my home by doing that. 299 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: Love it. I love it. So let's talk about sort 300 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: of the daily maintenance habits then, because this is how 301 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: you're getting rid of stuff, this is how you're kind 302 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: of lightening the overwhelming amount of stuff that is in 303 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: the house. But you said that you also need to 304 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: do these sort of daily routines to keep on top 305 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: of things. So what are some of those. 306 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 2: Well, I mean they are as basic as it gets, right, 307 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: because when I started, I call it my deslopification process. 308 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: When I started, I was like, I don't know what 309 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: to do. I had tried all the methods, I had 310 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: failed at everything. I was pretty sure I was going 311 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 2: to fail again. And I was like, I don't know, 312 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 2: but I know that my friends whose houses are under control, 313 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 2: like if I have to stop by for some reason unexpectedly, 314 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: their kitchens are never a disaster. What did you take 315 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 2: from that? Well, I didn't know how they did it. 316 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: It didn't make sense to me, because here's the thing. 317 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 2: I would put off doing my dishes, and by the 318 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: time I did my dishes, I was catching up on dishes. 319 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: And so let's say that I had had a busy 320 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: and it's time to clean the house, and I'm going 321 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: to start in the kitchen, and I would spend five 322 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: hours catching up on getting my kitchen under control, five 323 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: days worth of dishes. Well, in my mind, logically, I 324 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: was like, well, if it's five days worth of dishes 325 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 2: and it takes me five hours, then obviously, logically it 326 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: must take an hour to do the dishes every day. 327 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: And so I would say to myself, I don't want 328 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 2: to do the dishes for an hour every day, and 329 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: that's not how dishes work. Dishes are if I do 330 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 2: them every day, it only takes me fifteen to twenty minutes, right, 331 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 2: and if I waited one more day, it's not twice that, 332 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: it's an hour. And then if I wait three days, 333 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: it's hours. You know, So I call that dishes metho. 334 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: It just does not work the way that I logically 335 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: thought it would. But doing the dishes every day changed 336 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 2: everything because I never had to start in the kitchen. 337 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: So when I was going to work on my house, 338 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: I could just start working on my house. I didn't 339 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 2: have to go catch up in the kitchen first. Right, 340 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 2: the other stretch of the other routine or task that 341 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 2: I tell people, if you're completely overwhelmed, do the dishes 342 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 2: and do a five minute pickup. Okay, Now, the dishes 343 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 2: are hard because the first day you are catching up. 344 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: If you're behind the five minute pickup, I actually mean 345 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 2: five minutes today, even if your house is every surface 346 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: is covered, okay, okay, Because the problem was I always thought, oh, 347 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: I need to get all those surfaces under control, and 348 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: then it would make sense to do five minutes. In 349 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 2: the meantime, all the surfaces were so overwhelming that I 350 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 2: didn't do anything, and then it just got worse and 351 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 2: worse and worse. Right, But if you'll do five minutes 352 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 2: of picking up and putting away today and then tomorrow, 353 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 2: and then the next day, and whenever you think about it, 354 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: it's amazing the impact that it'll have. And those are 355 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 2: also the same two things to do to keep your 356 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: house under control. Those two things will change your house 357 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 2: and they'll maintain your house. 358 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 1: Yep, we can do a lot in five minutes, especially 359 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: if we do five minutes every single day. Right, Well, 360 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: We're going to take one more quick ad break and 361 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: then I will be back with more from Dana. Well, 362 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: I am back interviewing Dana K. White, who is the 363 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: author of several decluttering books, Organizing for the Rest of 364 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: Us and then most recently, Jesus doesn't care about your 365 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: messy house. So this is a fascinating title to me. 366 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: Dana say, it hadn't occurred to me that Jesus had 367 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: thought much about my house, But it sounds like you 368 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: have worked with a number of people who have some 369 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: significant shame and guilt about the state of their home 370 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: to the point of thinking that like it's sinful to 371 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: have a messy house or something like that. So maybe 372 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: you could unpack that topic a little bit. 373 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I am a Christian and I, Uh, when 374 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 2: I started this journey, I assumed God was gonna show 375 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 2: me some secret that I had somehow been missing that 376 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 2: was gonna just make me go, oh, I get it now, 377 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 2: and then my house always be clean, you know, like 378 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 2: I because it felt like, you know, we don't have 379 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 2: time to unpack all of it, right, but it felt 380 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 2: like I was missing something because I would try to 381 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: get this thing under control and I just couldn't do it. 382 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: You know. Now, I've heard a lot of people talk 383 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 2: about the same thing from the perspective of someone who 384 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 2: can't stop cleaning, you know, like their house is perfect 385 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 2: and they keep going, and they keep going because they're 386 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: trying to be perfect for God, you know. And I've 387 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 2: heard them talk about how God showed them that his 388 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 2: love is grace and it has nothing to do with 389 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 2: what we do. And I was like, Okay, that's great 390 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: for them, but what about for me When I have 391 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: tried and I just can't do it. You know, it's like, 392 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 2: am I missing something? Is there something wrong? So as 393 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 2: I worked on my house, God was showing me very 394 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 2: separately that He just made me the way that I am. 395 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 2: My brain just works differently, you know, like we're all different. 396 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: There's that's not an excuse to have my house not 397 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 2: be under control. But at the same time, it's also 398 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 2: not a shame, like it just is an issue of Okay, 399 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 2: so my brain works differently. I got to figure out 400 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 2: what does work for me, because the problem was I 401 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 2: always was trying to do what you know, everybody would 402 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 2: say you were supposed to do in your house, and 403 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 2: I'd be like, well, this doesn't work right, And it's 404 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 2: because what a lot of people are teaching on this 405 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 2: stuff misses the actual starting point that I was at, right, Like, 406 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 2: that's that's a big point. It's not that what people are, 407 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: you know, advising and sharing and encouraging other people to 408 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 2: do is not correct. It's that my starting point was 409 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 2: so far back that I had a lot to do 410 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 2: before I could ever even get to that point, and 411 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 2: it just didn't make sense to me. So when I 412 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: acknowledge and accepted that, you know what, this is not 413 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: a spiritual issue, this is just I'm wired differently, and 414 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 2: I got to figure out what does work for me, 415 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: it removed that shame and it set me on a 416 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 2: path where I was like, you know what, I like 417 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 2: who I am and if that also means that I 418 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 2: struggle in my house, that's fine, and then I was 419 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 2: free to actually figure out what did work for me 420 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 2: instead of trying other people's ways, failing at those ways 421 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 2: and thinking, oh my word, what's wrong with me? 422 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah. Realizing that everyone is different and our brains 423 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: work differently, yes, and we experienced the world differently, is 424 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: you know, good and good to know that God made 425 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: us all different as well. 426 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 2: Right, and it's a beautiful thing, right, Like we wouldn't 427 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 2: want to all be the same? How boring would that be? Yeah? 428 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well I'm glad to find out that Jesus 429 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: doesn't care about the state of my house, So that's good. 430 00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: I'm glad to. 431 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 2: Hear that exactly exactly. 432 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: So, Dana, you mentioned the daily housekeeping routines of doing 433 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: the dishes and doing the five minute pickup, but I'm 434 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: curious if you have any sort of other routines or 435 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: daily habits that more about, like how you organize your time. 436 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: Are the things you you know, do for yourself daily? 437 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? So, I well, you know, as far as the 438 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 2: tasks that I do, I have four tasks that if 439 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 2: I will do these things, my house is great. The 440 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 2: number two. The top two are the dishes and the 441 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 2: five minute pickups, So I don't get if I don't 442 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 2: get to the other two, I'm okay, I'll survive, right, 443 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 2: But if I can do the dishes every day, if 444 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 2: I can do a five minute pickup, if I can 445 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 2: check my bathrooms for clutter, so that when it comes 446 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 2: time to clean the bathroom, all I'm doing is cleaning 447 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 2: the bathroom and not like you know, excavating from the clutter. 448 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 2: And sweep the kitchen floor, which is not about crumbs necessarily. 449 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 2: It's about combating what I call my slab vision, where 450 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: I just don't see that, oh, there's a pile of 451 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 2: things over here, or there's whatever. But if I will 452 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 2: sweep the kitchen floor every day, then it just is 453 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 2: a habit that helps me see those things. But the 454 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,719 Speaker 2: way that I manage that is I have had to 455 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 2: come to the point where I don't assign those things 456 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 2: to a very specific time of day. Okay, So like, 457 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 2: for example, the five minute pickup, I knew that people 458 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 2: whose houses were under control did a pick up every night, right, 459 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 2: and so when I used to try to change, I 460 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 2: would be like, okay, okay, I am going to start 461 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: picking up the living room every night before the kids 462 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 2: go to bed, okay, you know, and then we would 463 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,959 Speaker 2: do it for a night, maybe two nights, and then 464 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 2: it would be a week later and I would think, 465 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 2: oh my goodness, I forgot to do that. Okay, the 466 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 2: kids are already in bed, all right, tomorrow night, I'll 467 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: do that, and then I would forget again, and then 468 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 2: the next So what I came to the point of 469 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 2: realizing was whatever time it crosses my mind, that's when 470 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 2: I need to do it. And sometimes it's frustrating because 471 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: I like to have the whole family participate in the 472 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 2: five minute pickup. But if it crosses my mind to 473 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 2: do it when it's just me at home, then I 474 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 2: go ahead and do it. And strangely, me doing a 475 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 2: five minute pickup when it's just me at home actually 476 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 2: usually helps me remember to do another one, which we 477 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: always need when the kids are home too. Write And 478 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: so this not assigning it to a specific time was 479 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 2: actually very freeing because it kept me from giving up 480 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: because oh I missed that time again. I miss that 481 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 2: time again, and that could go on for weeks until 482 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: it just I just gave up completely, right of like man, 483 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 2: every single night when I'm putting the kids to bed, 484 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 2: it never crosses my mind to pick up toys before 485 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 2: they go to bed whatever. Not that my kids have 486 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 2: toys anymore, but you know what I mean, back in 487 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 2: the day. 488 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, back in the day. Yeah, yeah, okay, wonderful. Yeah. Well, 489 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: I think there's something so freeing about realizing that routines 490 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: don't always have to happen at the same time every day. 491 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 1: And sometimes I tell people at this show, you know, 492 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: morning routines are morning can be a state of mind. 493 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: Sometimes your morning routine is more of a morning checklist, 494 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: and the morning checklist may happen over the course of 495 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: the day if your life is a certain way, and 496 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: that's totally fine too. So Dana, what's something you've done 497 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: recently to take a day from great to awesome? 498 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 2: Well, let me think. I put on my calendar, which 499 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 2: is funny because my best friend is my assistant as well, 500 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: and I just texted her the other day I said, Hey, 501 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: did you notice that two months ago I put on 502 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 2: the calendar that we're going to do our Christmas shopping tomorrow? 503 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 2: And she was like, She's like, yeah, I saw, I 504 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 2: put it on my calendar too. I was like, Okay, 505 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 2: good things. And I think it's that scheduling in, you know, 506 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 2: like this is we're talking I'm not sure when this 507 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 2: is coming out, but we're talking in December. And it 508 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 2: gets bananas, especially when your content is about decluttering, because 509 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: decluttering time is really really strong, you know, in January. 510 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 2: And so I schedule in my fun things and I'm like, 511 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 2: she and I go Christmas shopping every year, and if 512 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 2: I don't get it on the calendar. And I did 513 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 2: that as I was, you know, coming up with times 514 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 2: and dates where I could do podcast interviews and things 515 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: about the new book, and I'm like, Okay, this is 516 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 2: as important, if not more important, than all the other things, 517 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: because if I don't have that, then it feels like 518 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 2: what am I doing all the rest of this stuff for? 519 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 2: You know, if I'm not able to do the things 520 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 2: that bring me peace and joy and happiness and all. 521 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: That, way to get it on the calendar. Yeah, putting 522 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: things on the calendar is generally a good way for 523 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: making them happen, exactly exactly. So, Dana, where can people 524 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: find you? 525 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 2: You can find me at aslabcomesclean dot com that has 526 00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 2: links to all my YouTube and podcasts, and I have 527 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 2: decluttering coaches noil who are certified by me and all that. 528 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: So yep, that sounds awesome. Well, Dana, thank you so 529 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: much for joining us, and thank you to everyone for 530 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: listening to one of these longer episodes. If you have 531 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: feedback from me about this episode or any other, you 532 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: can email me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 533 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: In the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and 534 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: here's to making the most of our time. Thanks for 535 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, 536 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 1: you can reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 537 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts 538 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 539 00:27:54,160 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.