WEBVTT - Bob Weir of the Grateful Dead 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:13.560 Pushkin. Hey, y'all, it's justin Richmond here. I just want 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:15.640 to let everyone know that this episode of Broken Record 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.840 is recorded and produced long before the coronavirus outbreak. It's 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.320 with Bob Weir from The Grateful Dead, and since we 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.400 record of this episode, his Wolf Bros. Tour has been postponed. 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.120 Hopefully it doesn't also wind up effecting the summer's Dead 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.479 and Company dates. We'll have to wait and see, but 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:31.520 we do plan to keep putting out episodes of the 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:33.560 podcast that will hopefully be a bit of a reprieve 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.160 for everyone who's either continuing to work or practicing social distancing. 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.360 We hope everyone out there stays safe and stays healthy, 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:43.080 and we hope you enjoy Rick's conversation with The Grateful 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.640 Dead's Bob Weir. Out of all the original members of 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.159 The Grateful Dead, Bob Weir has had the longest and 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.120 most productive trip of all the Dead. Formed in the 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.320 Bay Area in the mid sixties, touring relentlessly until Jerry 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.640 garcia Is death in ninety five, they were able to 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.000 keep the audience on their toes throughout their thirty year 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:05.640 career with experimental improvised live sets that stretched on for 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.720 hours at a time. Every show was designed to be 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.679 a once in a lifetime experience. As we're hearing Bob's 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.760 conversation with Rick Rubin, the band was never focused on 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.479 making studio albums or writing perfect songs. It was always 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.319 about playing live and seeing where the music would take them. 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.320 It's an objective that has served them well. There's a 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.319 rabid selection of Deadheads who trade recordings of live shows 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.800 to this day, a tradition the band started fostering decades ago. 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.880 As a result, Bob credits the band with creating viral 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:38.480 marketing long before the Internet. In addition to the Grateful Dead, 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:40.759 Bob is also toured with a number of offshoot bands, 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.920 including Dead and Company with John Mayer and his latest project, 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.920 Wolf Brows with Don Was who were on tour Now. 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.320 If there's anyone keeping the Dead alive, it's Bob Weir, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.160 and after all these years, he's still just playing in 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.120 the band. Bob starts off by Italian Rick about a 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.520 recent dream whereas oldfer and Jerry visits him with this 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.960 song that materializes into a giant, playful sheep dog. It's 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:09.359 super trippy, but what else would you expect? This is 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.160 broken record line of notes for the digital Age. I'm 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:20.079 justin Mitchman. Here's Bob. We are in conversation with Rick 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.440 Rubin from Shangola. Do you write songs all the time? 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:29.079 What's your process? Like, there's stuff going on, stuff going 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:35.520 on in my head all the time, and right now 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.960 I'm kind of writing all the time, you know. Yeah, 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.600 it's nice. You know it comes out very very slowly, 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:47.040 slower than a slug in a trance. But but you know, 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.880 I keep at it. Yeah. In the past, he worked 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.000 a lot with a lyricist, and I understand he passed away. 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.160 Is that how do you fill that gap or how 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.960 do you imagine it working going forward? Well, I've always 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.359 you know, I was working with John Barlow, the lyricistist, 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:04.600 but I always wrote like half of the lyrics, or 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:09.560 usually wrote half alerts and would your half come first 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:13.320 and he would finish them. Generally speaking, Yeah, generally speaking, 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.880 I would come up with whatever it was that married 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.720 that lyric to that music understood and uh, and you 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:25.400 would have already the framework melodically of yeah, the phrasing yeah, 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:30.280 or you know, some big notion of that. Yes, would 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:35.040 would how often would a song change from the initial 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.960 spirit when writing it. Sometimes not at all, and sometimes 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:46.080 you get way different. You know, A song is I'm 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.880 gonna I'm gonna die right in here. A song is 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:53.600 a life form. It's a you know, an alien life form. 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:59.360 It's organic. Um. I actually I had a dream, um 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.360 a few weeks back, my old pal Jerry came to 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:07.960 me in the dream and introduced to me a song, 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.880 you know, and the song came in and it was 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.120 like it was kind of it looked kind of like 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:18.440 a great, big room sized etherial sheep dog, you know, 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:20.719 it was big and friendly and you know, came up 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:22.640 and sniffed me and I batted a little bit, and 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.800 it came back at me, and it was it was 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.680 interactive and and and then we you know, then we 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.800 started playing and singing the song, and then we we 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:37.920 were in it. We were in the song part of it. 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:42.960 We were part of that functioning organism. Yes, And then 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.040 the dream sort of trailed off into whatever, into wherever 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:53.040 dreams go. But um, that just confirmed my notion that 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.120 I've held for the longest time that there a song 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.200 as a live form, and it comes and visits us, 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:02.480 and it comes through certain people for whatever its reasons. 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:06.760 Are yes and or whatever its attractions are and yes 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:08.920 and uh. And when it's time for it to come, 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:10.680 it's going to come, when it comes through you or 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.159 through someone else, it's coming. Yeah, it's coming to this 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.520 world and it's coming to a sniff around and visit 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:20.320 and uh and and hang. Yes. And you know those 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.479 those characters and those songs, you know, they come and 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.960 they tell their stories and they're they're you know, they 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:31.920 just want to be heard. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. When 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.640 you woke up, did you remember the song? Uh? Not 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:39.880 very well. It was a jazz ballad. Um, we were singing. 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.400 We were doing a duet on it. When you don't 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:47.880 hear many of those, but but in this particular case, 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:53.240 you know, jazz ballad. Yeah. Do songs often come to 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:57.040 you in dreams? A lot of them? Yeah, that's great. Yeah, 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.719 you know the good ones. Yeah, it's what a gift. 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.560 I Sometimes I'll have a song come into dream, but 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.400 it's hard for me to keep them, you know, it's 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.520 hard for them to hang around, right. Yeah, you gotta 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.560 get right on it. Yeah. And what I what I've 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.520 found is I've sort of made a deal with my 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:15.200 a little deal with with my muse. Yes, where you know, 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.760 no matter what time it day, no matter what I'm 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.920 getting up, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna, you know, I'm 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.920 gonna pick up my guitar. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, uh 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.839 get enough of it down so that you know, otherwise 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.640 I'm afraidile's taught visiting. Yeah. And with the way you 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.000 would get it down be to record something or might 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.960 it meet generally phone makes it really easy these days. Yeah, 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.200 so you'll sing it into the phone, yeah, or sing 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:44.880 and play it into the phone. How did um, how 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:49.760 would set lists work in the band? Well, that's interesting. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:52.680 The way the Dead the Grateful Dead used to do 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.880 it is uh, Um, Jerry and I, you know, I'd 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.119 be his journ to start or my turn to start, 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:04.000 and and take turns back and forth. Yeah, we'd take place. Yeah, 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:08.159 and then well you know, and we'd figure out the 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:09.840 first couple of tunes that we were going to do, 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:15.040 maybe first three, and then we'd generally come up with 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:16.840 what we were going to wrap the set up with, 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:22.760 uh says right here on paper. And then and then 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.280 while Jerry was singing, I had all the time on 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.160 earth to to figure out what I wanted to do next, 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:32.520 And often as not, I'd try to coax that tune 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.840 out of the one we were playing when when it 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:39.400 was done, to route that one up, And then he'd 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.760 be doing the same thing when I was singing. And 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.120 would they always come or did you did you have 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.160 a list of things to draw from or you just 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.720 always have him in that toward the end, you know, 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:52.520 toward the end, it was handy to have a list 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.800 because there were so many. Yeah, the repertoire got pretty 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.520 expansive and uh, and we tried to stay up on 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.360 all the two we brought around, so you know, we 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:06.040 have you know, the way we did things. We you know, 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.560 we never we got around to a tune maybe once 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.760 a week. Yes, How would cover songs work their way 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:17.200 into the set? Uh? Sometimes they just came up, you know, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.840 and a signature, a look or something like that would 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:27.240 oh we're playing that, Okay, here goes nothing. I noted 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:29.160 that there are some covers that would work their way 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.720 into this, work their way around often, you know, for 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.120 a long period of time. Are there any that that 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:39.560 just didn't work? Oh? Plenty, plenty of them. We try 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:45.040 on one who I think we tried Pigpin tried to 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.520 sing and this is a man's world. Yeah. I think 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.680 we actually did that twice, just to make sure that 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.840 it was that bad, because in theory that sounds like 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:57.679 that could have been good. Yeah. Yeah, you know, we 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.840 have no control over those. Can't never tell. You never tell. 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.240 How different were the members of the band, would you 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:10.760 say from each other? Like music wise, taste wise, Well, 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:15.040 we had pig Pen who was very, very funky. He 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.600 was all about blues and not much hells. And then 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:23.280 we had Phil who was into classically. He was classically 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:28.439 trained and uh and and sort of sort of moonlighted 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:37.480 in the jazz world. Mickey was a martial drummer. He uh, 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:43.079 he played martial music. He was a national champion rudimentary 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.040 snarre drummer. So he played one of those big field 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:54.040 drums and uh. While emerging Billy's I finally figured out 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.600 who Billy's a major influence was and he never he 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.720 I pointed it out to him. He allowed, as I 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:07.120 was spot on, was there was a certain era of 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:12.040 Ray Charles that that drummer. Yeah, and Billy Billy captured 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.280 that lilt. And I don't think he I don't think 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.160 he even knew he did it. I don't think he 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:23.000 was thinking consciously doing or consciously attempting to do that. 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.680 It just happened, yes, And then Jerry was Jerry was 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.199 all over the place. He loved, he loved, but his 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.880 I think his deepest love was probably a string band music, 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:38.480 country music, acoustic based like like Appalachian would you say 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:42.880 or not necessarily? I think Appalachian music, though he was 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:48.720 a huge fan of George Jones, Hank Williams, um, Jerry 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.600 Lee Lewis for that matter. And what would you say? 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:56.960 You're where were your how would you describe your foundational taste? 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:02.400 A little bit of all of it up. I grew 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.440 up with the rock and roll radio station on most 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:07.559 of the term. But if there wasn't any there were 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.560 two rock and roll stations, and if if I didn't 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.360 like what was on either of them, I'd I'd go 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:22.720 fishing and christ you know, back in back in the sixties, Um, 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.120 if you went to a classical station, they played they 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.600 played modern classical music. They don't anymore. They all played 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:33.040 baroque music these days pretty much. I guess that's what 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.599 they figure the audiences want to hear, and so I 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:42.560 don't much tune into those stations anymore. But and then 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.000 and then there were the jazz stations or the or 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:49.000 the country stations, and so I, you know, I I 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:53.400 shopped around it all. You know. It was the coolest 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.040 stuff my brother turned me onto. It was was on 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:01.440 Sundays and sometimes on a given evening, you get the uh, 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:07.080 the black preachers, and they they got cranked. I think 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.480 they really got cranked up. And uh, you know, I 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:16.880 I found that that that's music to me absolutely And uh, 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.640 you know, they'd find a theme and they'd work it 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.520 and uh and and they have another theme and they'd 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:27.040 worked out and they'd work them together, and uh, you know, 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.120 so I fell in love with that stut too beautiful. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:36.120 And then the full boom happened, which are used to 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:43.319 call but the big folks here, and uh and a 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:47.840 guitar was portable and uh you could you could use 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:52.360 it to accompany yourself singing, and you could you could 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.079 just tell story after story after story with your with 0:12:55.120 --> 0:13:00.480 your voice, with your hands. And I found my home. 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.760 How how would you say your relationship to music has 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:08.000 changed over the course of your life. He's gotten deeper, 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.880 you know, I wish I say that I say that 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:16.440 pretty easily. Though. Let me think about that, because you know, 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.000 I wasn't all that deep when I was a kid. Yeah, 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.560 or I don't think of myself as having been all 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.360 that deep when I was a kid. But at the 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.440 same time, when I was a kid, well, what mattered 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:31.680 to me mattered a lot, and so I guess I 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.640 was kind of deep. And so I won't I can't 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.360 say that the music the music has always been. I'll 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:41.520 just say that the music has always been where I live, Yes, 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.120 and you know the rest of the rest of this world, 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:48.439 I'm just visiting, yes, completely interested. Do you remember the 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.559 thing that made you want to start playing? I think 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.280 it might have been seeing Elbows on TV where I 0:13:55.400 --> 0:14:00.200 was seven or eight or nine, something like that. You know, 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:04.280 and look at that guy. He's Wow, he's into it, 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:09.360 he's having fun and he's doing well. Yes, he's making 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.679 real music, and I can relate to that, and uh, 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.240 I gotta do that. Yeah, imagine seeing that as a 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:22.000 kid for the first time. It was so outside of 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:25.600 anything else going on in culture. It must have just 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.160 been like a real revelation. Yeah, it was, well, it 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.680 was you know, I couldn't I couldn't feature anything else. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:37.720 You know, I was seven years old maybe eight, um, 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.560 you know, so there's as strong as strong desire to 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.600 be a cowboy at that at that age. But I 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.320 figured I could at least work two together. Yeah, kind of, 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:53.920 you kind of did. When the when the band started, 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.360 I think of the early days of the band that's 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.640 primarily electric, which was which was sort of what was 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.960 going on at the time. Is that? Is that not accurate? Actually? 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.880 You know, the band that turned into The Grateful Dead 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.480 was Mother mccree's Uptown Jug Champions. And we were a 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.360 jug man. We were a damn good one. Wow. Um 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.480 we you know, a pig then made us authentic, yes, 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.240 you know, because he was nothing but authentic. Yes, he 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.680 was just born a couple of decades too late and 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.000 in a white body, but the rest of it was 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:31.960 authentic and uh and and Jerry was an apt student 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:36.360 of the of of whatever musical vein he was he 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:41.280 was diving into. And I applied myself. And so the 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.400 three of us were the core of that of that 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:48.480 drug band. And we had a sort of a uh 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:50.960 we had folks come and go in the rest of 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.760 the band. And then that band turned into uh, turned 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.320 into the Grateful Dead after about a year. But we 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.040 that first year we were playing. You know, what we 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.640 excelled at was the old jug band music. And I 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.520 don't know if you play stuff on play music on, 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.000 but we could play, Yes, should I pull something up now? 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:16.960 We could listen and talk? Sure? How about new Minglewood blues. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.720 Well there's a hundred Grateful Dead versions. See if there's it, 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:28.480 there's Noah Lewis jug band. Yeah, that's it, that's it. Magnificent, 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.200 that's glorious, that's perfect. It's interesting that jug band music. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.880 Those those musicians were, they were the guys. The river 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.560 boats had the minstrel musicians. They were the minstrel musicians. 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.440 And they do that stuff on the deck of a 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.920 boat for tips and stuff like that, and I guess 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.080 it's basically busting and uh. And then when they come 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.680 to a town, they'd hop off the boat and everything 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.480 was portable. They just they just go hit a street 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.640 corner and h and play in the dark count and 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:05.159 they'd be like a washboard and a jug washboard a 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.800 tin jug because a tin jug, yeah, people think of 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.840 the porcelain jugs, but those those only make one note. 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.480 A tin jug. It sounds like a tuba. I see, 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.440 and I see, I know. I think I just learned 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.359 something hearing that that that I never made the connection before. 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:28.000 But in old country music kind of umpah baselines, right, yeah, 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.199 maybe that's maybe it came from the nature of the 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.280 jug because you can only kind of you can only 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.320 get you know, the rhythm of it, Yeah, to be 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.040 kind of umpah. Yeah, yeah, that's true. There's not a 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.840 lot of not a lot of percussion on and you 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.960 don't have so many choices of notes. Even you could 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:49.520 get more than one note. It probably wasn't a wide range. No, 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.320 you kind of you were you know, you had to yeah, narrow, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.040 narrow range. Yeah, how would you change if you were 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:01.520 playing a jug? How would you change nutes? I see, 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:03.919 just the sound the sound you made as well? What 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.119 changed it? I played the jug. I also played the 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:13.199 washtubool occasional guitar. Yeah, yeah, and that out amazing. And 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.520 then how did it? How did that band morph into 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:21.080 the Dead? Um? So, after about six months of playing 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:26.280 in that band, um Jerry wanted to take a sabbatical 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:32.359 that summer, and so he left. He had to find 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:37.040 somebody to take his beginning in intermediate intermediate students. So 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.159 he got me to do it. And uh and so 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:45.000 I had a job at the at the at the 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.840 music store, doing the Morgan music and um. And then 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.600 when he came back, I kept a bunch of those 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.960 students and he just concentrated on his advanced students and uh. 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.880 And so we were both working there and pig Pen 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.320 would come in and uh, Pigin would sweep the floor 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:04.960 is uh. We were all working at the at the 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.320 music store by you know, by the end of the summer. 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.000 And uh and the son of the owner of the 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.639 music store wanted to be in a rock and roll band. 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:18.639 So so uh when made a little deal with him, 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:24.320 you can play the bass, um, and we'll uh, well, 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.760 we'll go be a rock and roll band. And that 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:33.760 lasted for four or five months. And then the guy 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:38.159 he really wasn't going to be He wasn't cut out 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.040 for it. And uh, Jerry knew this guy Phil from 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:44.120 I don't know where, from from a party I think 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.359 they met at and uh and you figured the guy's 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.800 a trumpet player. But the bass, if you're going to 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:53.080 pick up an instrument, the one you're gonna be quick 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.800 as to pick up is going to be base and 0:19:55.880 --> 0:20:02.359 so um, he just sort of conscripted him. Yeah and 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:07.959 uh and uh went to work. Yeah, he's an unusually 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.600 great bass player. I wonder if it's because he started 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:16.160 as a trumpet player. Well, he you know, he um, 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:24.119 when he's playing, he's visualizing the he can read music 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:29.040 and he's visualizing the music that we're all playing, and 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.959 you know, in notes and staffs and stuff like that, 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:38.200 and in color. You know, when I'm when I'm playing, 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.640 I also visualize the music. Um, but it's more an 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.320 ethereal kind of deal. I just see lions and and 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:50.080 uh and colors and stuff like that. Pre um pre acid. 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.200 Did you see music that way? Yeah? I wasn't aware 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:58.680 of it. Yes, but you know, you know, I think 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:02.879 maybe the first time I took ASID, you know, I realized, okay, 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:07.280 well you're hallucinating. But you always do that, yeah, yeah, 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:12.040 I just oh yeah, okay, well that's what hallucinating hallucination is. Yeah, 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.040 but I've been doing that for since I can remember. Yes, 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:20.560 it just it just allowed you to recognize it was 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:24.600 already happening. Yeah, we'll be right back. After this quick break. 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.160 We're back with Rick Rubin's conversation with Bob Weir. When 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:34.280 you think of the Dead, do you think of the 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:36.840 music over the years in phases or do you think 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:41.040 of it as one thing? Well? Both, How would you 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.280 define the phases as you were experiencing it? Well, there 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:49.600 was there was pret acid test, and then on Jerry's 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:54.959 birthday in August first of nineteen sixty five, we all 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:57.920 took it ausid except Pig Benny to read you never did, 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.320 and right right about them, we fell into the acid 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.960 test and things got way different real fast. And so 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:12.640 there was that phase. And that phase lasted through our 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:18.399 first record, which was I guess sixty seven. Yeah, And 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:21.760 so that was a couple of years there, sixty five 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:26.639 to sixty seven, and we were well, actually that phase 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:32.960 lasted a little longer, lasted through the late sixties where 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:42.560 we were pretty pretty committed to experimentation that that was 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:51.119 probably our focus. Then after that in the early seventies, 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:54.040 and I guess it was right around the time that 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:58.200 Crosby Stills in nash moved into northern California to Marine 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.359 County and we started, you know, it just sort of 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.920 rubbed off that those guys, those guys were song oriented. 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:07.439 They thought you know, they weren't about planned they were 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:11.560 about songs and the overall sound of it and uh 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:17.199 and how it fell together. And um, particularly Jerry and 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:22.439 I became enamored of that approach. So like Uncle John's 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:24.919 band might have been around that time, Yeah, yeah, speak 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.639 to that. Yeah and uh, and we started thinking in 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:31.080 terms of songs. And I'm not sure that everybody in 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:34.440 the band even to this day thinks of the material 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:38.159 in terms of songs. You know, a song, you know 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:43.960 all hailed the song and in capital in gold gold 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:48.439 capital letters. Um, I'm not sure everybody is on that 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:50.480 same page. And you know some of the guys are still, 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:52.680 oh yeah, what's what's a song? A song as a 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:54.880 set of Corey change isn't a melody that you play? 0:23:55.200 --> 0:24:00.919 You play through and uh and I'm I I started 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:07.640 leaving that behind the song plays me around that time. Um, 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:12.280 it's really interesting. The idea that not everybody in the 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:15.320 band might be on the same page could lead to 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:20.159 very interesting results. Well, yeah, that's that's that's you know, 0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:24.480 it keeps sayings interesting. Absolutely, you get different perspectives. Absolutely. 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:27.159 I don't know even had to asked this question. Was 0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:31.199 the band democratic, Like was it a democratic process. There was, 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:35.560 so everybody had to say pure and simple and was 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:40.360 it majority rules or would you know there was would 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:42.320 there ever be a case where everybody likes something and 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:44.480 one person really didn't like it and you would decide 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:46.440 not to do it because they didn't like it. Every 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:48.399 now and again, there was one gun I won't go 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:51.239 into names. One one guy who was histed on on 0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:54.159 veto privilege. Yes, and I think that's a privilege. I 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:58.560 don't think that's right. Yeah, um, but nonetheless we granted 0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:02.199 it to him. Yes. Um, I'm not sure that that 0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:05.199 was the best way to have gone about that. Yes, 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:11.680 But aside from that, everything was democratic. The best idea 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:17.280 usually went out. Jerry was real. I won't say forceful. 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:19.920 It wasn't forceful at all, but he had a way 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:23.840 of getting his ideas across so that people understood them. 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:27.600 And uh, and I I like to think that I 0:25:27.680 --> 0:25:30.760 was also pretty good at that, you know, presenting a 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:35.040 vision very quickly and uh and uh and succinctly and 0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:37.800 uh you know, you know, in a way that was 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:42.280 palatable for the guys to pick it up. Yes. How 0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:45.720 did the audience taping start where the audience would tape 0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:53.080 the shows. Well, I started sample because Japanese started miniaturizing 0:25:54.920 --> 0:26:00.520