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Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef

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Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the beck Del Cast.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the beck Del Cast. My name

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Speaker 1: is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Dronte, and this

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Speaker 1: is our podcast about the representation of women in movies.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? That's correct, Jamie. Would you say that

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Speaker 1: the representation of women in movies is like generally like

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Speaker 1: pretty good? I would or would interesting? In general? Very

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Speaker 1: very bad. How many episodes have we been going for? Now?

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Speaker 1: Five million? Yeah? I think the general consensus in surprise

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Speaker 1: to me, but I'm interested to hear more. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: have to fifty first dates you every morning? Mind you

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Speaker 1: that the why don't we done that movie? Oh God,

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Speaker 1: that mood. I've never seen it. It's very funked up.

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Speaker 1: But what I really loved it when it came out.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was the most romantic thing ever. It's

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Speaker 1: spoiler alert. Adam Sandler has to show Drew Barrymore this

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Speaker 1: like weird DVD he made to like tell her it's

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six or something every morning, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: so all this stuff happened. The Clinton administration is over.

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Speaker 1: Also nine eleven happened. Also, Arnold Schwartzenegger is in office,

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Speaker 1: like it's the the events he chooses to cover and

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Speaker 1: the order is So it's an insane movie. But I

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Speaker 1: really liked it when it came out, but almost I

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Speaker 1: almost never want to see it again just so I can. Well,

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Speaker 1: you gotta cover it, So sorry, but you gotta see

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Speaker 1: it again. Oh no, shout out to all my fifty

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Speaker 1: first dates and for you, it'll be exactly two laps

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Speaker 1: of first dates. So we used the Bectel test as

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Speaker 1: as a as a way to initiate a larger conversation

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Speaker 1: about women in film and the to test if You're

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Speaker 1: not Familiar, is a media test created by Alison Bechdel.

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Speaker 1: It requires that a piece of media has two female

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Speaker 1: identifying characters. They have to have names, they must speak

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Speaker 1: to each other, and their conversation couldnot be about men.

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Speaker 1: And for our standard, it's a just a two line exchange,

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Speaker 1: very low bar, and yet it still does not happen

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Speaker 1: nearly enough. So that's what we're working with here. I'm

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Speaker 1: excited for the movie we're talking about today. It's one

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Speaker 1: of your favorites, and I yeah, I would say that

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Speaker 1: it's one of my favorites. Although upon this rewatch I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh boy, oh something's happened. But before we

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Speaker 1: get into it, let's introduce our guests. We've got today

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Speaker 1: very exciting the host of Malton on Movies podcast. It's

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Speaker 1: Jesse and Leonard Malton. Hello. Can I tell you when

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Speaker 1: I first became aware of this? Yeah, it was as

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Speaker 1: apparent when I started taking Jesse to movies when she

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Speaker 1: was a little girl, and I became alarmed at the

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Speaker 1: lack of role models for her. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: enlightened you would rate me as being. I like to

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Speaker 1: think I am. And so when Jesse was growing up,

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Speaker 1: we go to these Saturday morning or Sunday morning screenings

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Speaker 1: that they have here in l A for family friendly movies.

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Speaker 1: That's how they have their media screenings. One time we

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Speaker 1: went to see the Karate Kid Part three, classic film

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Speaker 1: that no one would call a classic, and they got

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Speaker 1: generally poor reviews. But Hilary Swank is a key character

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Speaker 1: in that along with Mr Miagi, and I came out

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Speaker 1: with a different point of view about that movie than

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Speaker 1: almost any of my critic colleagues, because I was watching

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Speaker 1: it through her eyes, and I said, well, it's not

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Speaker 1: a very good movie, but it has a nice lesson,

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Speaker 1: a nice moral for her. I like to take away

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Speaker 1: from that movie. That was my first kind of I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you call it an antiphany, but it

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Speaker 1: was a realization that if you're trying to be a

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Speaker 1: responsible parent, an enlightened parent, and especially in this case,

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Speaker 1: the parent of a daughter, there are other considerations besides

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Speaker 1: is a great writing, is it outstanding cinema? It's the

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Speaker 1: takeaway And and I refer to that all the time

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Speaker 1: because it made such an impression on both of us

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Speaker 1: cretic at three, who knew a monumental film. But it's

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Speaker 1: so funny because it's like, yeah, as recently as you know,

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Speaker 1: when we were growing up, there were still like relatively

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Speaker 1: slim pickings for positive role models for girls outside of

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Speaker 1: you know, the Disney princesses that we've talked to death

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Speaker 1: on this show, but you know, finding active young girl roles,

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Speaker 1: Like I think almost everyone I grew up with was like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, Harry at the Spy and Matilda, like those

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Speaker 1: were the Two Little Girls. Okay, so pleasant. What are

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Speaker 1: each of your history in relationship with this movie? It's

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies ever. I loved it ever

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Speaker 1: since the first time I saw it. I remember seeing

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Speaker 1: it and obsessing with it, you know, over it. But yes,

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Speaker 1: it's one of my favorites. I know, damn near every word.

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Speaker 1: I love it. My parents, though I had not seen it,

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Speaker 1: I think since it's since it came out. And so

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Speaker 1: I said to my dad, do you remember it? I said,

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Speaker 1: I do, but not not as well. And my mom

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Speaker 1: was the same thing. She couldn't remember exactly. So we

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Speaker 1: sat down, the three of us one evening and watched

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Speaker 1: the film. And the best part for me was watching

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Speaker 1: the two of them and they were really enjoying it

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Speaker 1: because I didn't need to watch it again. I know it,

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Speaker 1: but but I liked watching them watch it. So you

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Speaker 1: as a family watch each other watch movies because you're

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Speaker 1: watching a karate kid. That's true, but it is true.

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Speaker 1: It's it's I'm I'm very much I'm a people watcher anyway.

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Speaker 1: I'm an only child, so I'm very much like the

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Speaker 1: I sit in corners and stare at people. So with this,

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Speaker 1: for me, I kept watching the two of them, and

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Speaker 1: when it ended, my mom said, I can't believe I

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Speaker 1: don't remember this movie. I love this, this is so good.

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Speaker 1: She was really really pleased with it. I think you

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Speaker 1: and you had a similar reaction. I did really pleasant

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Speaker 1: rediscovery for me because I had not seen it since

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Speaker 1: it came out. I come to it from a slightly

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Speaker 1: different perspective than any of you, just kind of the

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Speaker 1: fact I'm older. I grew up watching Leave It to

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Speaker 1: Beaver and Father Knows Best At, Ozzie and Harriet and

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Speaker 1: all of those TV shows that didn't take place in

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Speaker 1: the past. That was my present, that was my present day.

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Speaker 1: So I lived my life and absorbed what they were

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Speaker 1: telling me was the ideal, the ideal of American life.

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Speaker 1: I was a baby boomer and these were baby boomer

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Speaker 1: shows the post World War two era, and they were

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Speaker 1: hugely popular and it all had long runs those three

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Speaker 1: shows I just named, and then endless reruns, so they

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Speaker 1: were always there. They were part of the fabric of

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Speaker 1: American life. Jamie, what's your history? Um, I think that

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Speaker 1: this was a movie that I feel like it was

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Speaker 1: on i f C or the Sundance Channel, like constantly

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Speaker 1: when I was in high school. So I saw this

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Speaker 1: movie a bunch of times in high school, aided by

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Speaker 1: my Toby McGuire crush, which really maybe, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: very likely to watch this movie more than once. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I always really liked it. I hadn't seen it

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Speaker 1: in I think four or five years, and there were

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Speaker 1: some things that stood out to me at this point

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Speaker 1: that I feel I feel almost a little silly for

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Speaker 1: not registering for me sooner. But I mean, in general,

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Speaker 1: I still think it's a really fun movie. I've forgot

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Speaker 1: how emotionally affected I was by it, and um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I really like it. Yeah, it is a movie that

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Speaker 1: I really love as well. Although as you said, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: there are some beats that happened, especially like towards the

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Speaker 1: end of Act two where I'm like, oh, you're introducing

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Speaker 1: this metaphor, oh and then okay, we'll talk about Then

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Speaker 1: Miles Grady is upstairs and we're like, oh, yeah, we'recovering

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Speaker 1: Pleasantville today. He's like, oh, yeah, the movie about racism

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Speaker 1: with only white people in it. And we're like yes,

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Speaker 1: and he was like, oh cool, yeah, so we'll we'll

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Speaker 1: dig into that in a bit. But um, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: I first saw this, I think, and probably I mean

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Speaker 1: it came out in ninety eight. I think I saw

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Speaker 1: it in like two thousand and have been watching it

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Speaker 1: pretty subtily since then. But yeah, I'm excited to dive in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll run through the recap and then uh, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll go from there. So we meet David. That is

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Speaker 1: Toby McGuire's character. He is a teenager, he's in high school.

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Speaker 1: He's a I think they're seniors I had imagine in

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Speaker 1: high school. Um, he's he's a bit of a nerdy type,

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Speaker 1: and he's obsessed with a show called Pleasantville, which is

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Speaker 1: this old timey black and white, very wholesome. And in

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Speaker 1: this show pleasant Ville, it's about a family with a

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Speaker 1: mom and a dad and a teenage son named Bud

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Speaker 1: and his sister Mary Sue. Very nuclear, very nuclear family unit. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then we meet David's twin sister, Jennifer. She's played

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Speaker 1: by Reese Witherspoon. She is this popular girl in school.

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Speaker 1: She likes this bad boy, and she has made plans

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Speaker 1: with him to watch this concert on MTV that night,

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Speaker 1: but it's at the same exact time as this pleasant

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Speaker 1: Ville marathon is happening. That David wants to watch. This

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Speaker 1: is a great problem. There's a lot of problems at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of this movie that I very much enjoyed.

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Speaker 1: So they're fighting over the remote and it flings against

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Speaker 1: the wall accidentally and shatters. So this TV repair man

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Speaker 1: shows up magically right then, and he sees how big

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Speaker 1: of a fan David is of the show Pleasantville, and

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Speaker 1: he gives him this special remote control. You just said

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Speaker 1: Don Knots. I would say Donna Barney Fife from that show,

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Speaker 1: The Nervous Man, from the Steve Allen Show. I grew

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Speaker 1: up with Don. Gary Ross. The filmmaker very candily and

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Speaker 1: deliberately cast Don not Sure in that role because he

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Speaker 1: knew it would get the kind of reaction I just

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Speaker 1: heard from aging boomers. All the knots heads are coming out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what but I interrupted, Oh, that's that's what the

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Speaker 1: recaps all about. So they've got this special remote control now,

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Speaker 1: and David and Jennifer continue to fight over it, and

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Speaker 1: they accidentally hit this button that sucks them into the

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Speaker 1: world of pleasant Fills. I like to wonder what happened

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Speaker 1: to the two actors in pleasant Right, Like, where did

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Speaker 1: they go to the nineties nineties, that would be fun,

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Speaker 1: but we do know what happened to unpleasant film. They're

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Speaker 1: just horrified by nineties culture the all time right, because

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Speaker 1: David becomes Bud and Jennifer becomes Mary Sue. So they're like,

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Speaker 1: what the frick? What get us out of here? Like

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Speaker 1: what's happening? And the don Knots character is like, no,

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Speaker 1: you're staying. It begs the question why this man is

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Speaker 1: going around looking for teenagers to replace the current cast

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Speaker 1: of pleasant Ville, Like he's just like I've been looking

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Speaker 1: for people to do this for years. You're like, why,

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Speaker 1: don Knots, Why wouldn't that ruin the show, which as

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Speaker 1: we see it does. Why would he do that? I

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Speaker 1: kind of I'm like, you know, I don't have to know,

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Speaker 1: but I am curious why that was his I never

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Speaker 1: really questioned the logic of it until this recent rewatch,

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Speaker 1: but I was like, why does he do that? I

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Speaker 1: just don't question them. Yeah, that's the whole meeting on

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Speaker 1: meeting on the movie's terms. It's like, if you're saying

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Speaker 1: that you want to send them back there, then that's

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Speaker 1: where they go. I trust to move the plot forward,

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Speaker 1: that's right. So they realize that they have to play

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Speaker 1: along existing in the world of Pleasantville until don Knots

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Speaker 1: shows up again and is willing to like discuss sending

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Speaker 1: them back to their actual time. And so then they

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Speaker 1: meet their mom and dad, Betty and George Parker that's

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Speaker 1: played by Joan Allen and William H. Macy. So David

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Speaker 1: has an easy time fitting into Pleasantville because he knows

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Speaker 1: the show so well. But Jennifer is like, this place

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Speaker 1: fucking sucks because it's like this utopia of like wholesome purness.

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Speaker 1: No one has sex, like books or blank nothing burns,

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Speaker 1: like all this eating meat and cheese and gigantic stacks. Right.

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Speaker 1: But then this character, Skip Martin played by Paul Walker,

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Speaker 1: is like, hey, Mary Sue, I like you, Let's go

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Speaker 1: on a date. Palmer is great in this movie. He

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Speaker 1: is such a little cutie pie. Watching him be all

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Speaker 1: bamboozled and what was the part where he's just like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening to my body. I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, Paul Walker has a boner and he

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Speaker 1: doesn't know what's going on. It's a great scene. So

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Speaker 1: she takes him to Lover's Lane and they get into

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Speaker 1: some heavy petting, and I know, I'm so sorry. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I'm so sorry. The family chew, which is

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Speaker 1: all new to Skip, as you just hinted at Jamie

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Speaker 1: Um because like again, everyone in Peasantville is basically a sexual.

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Speaker 1: So at the end of the night, Skip drives past

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Speaker 1: this like rose Bush and one of the roses. It's

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Speaker 1: no longer in black and white, it's red, and we're

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Speaker 1: like the color sin, are this new? Bud and Mary

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Speaker 1: Sue perhaps changing things in Pleasantville. So now this sort

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Speaker 1: of incites these changes where teens are making out, they're

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Speaker 1: listening to rock mu there's that great scene where Paul

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Speaker 1: Walker tells all the other teenage boys about sex, and

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Speaker 1: then no one can shoot a basketball anymore. It's great.

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Speaker 1: And then more things are showing up in color. And

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Speaker 1: then Bud's boss at the diner, Mr Johnson. That's Jeff

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Speaker 1: Daniels character. He is like learning to be more independent

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Speaker 1: and he's enjoying the changes, and he's like, I love painting,

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Speaker 1: I want to paint more. But Bud is sort of

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Speaker 1: like resistant to things changing. He's like, let's maintain the

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Speaker 1: status quo here, h And all this Bud's family life

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Speaker 1: is terrible. His parents are divorced, they fight all the time,

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Speaker 1: so for him, pleasant Ville is the escape exgreens of

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Speaker 1: So the reason he doesn't want things to change because

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Speaker 1: he says, I love the idea of having my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad home and loving each other and dinner on

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Speaker 1: the table every night, whereas Rie Swedishman's character is saying,

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Speaker 1: why the hell am I in this horrible bra and

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Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to talk to boys? There are no

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Speaker 1: toilets here there you know, all those sorts of things,

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Speaker 1: all of which were true in Father Knows Best and

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Speaker 1: leave it to Beaver and Ozzie and Harriet. There are

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Speaker 1: no toilets. No, you never saw a bathroom. Well, to

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Speaker 1: see a bathroom, you see a mirror, man of the

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Speaker 1: sink in a mirror, but there was. It was kind

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Speaker 1: of a joke. You never saw a toilet and the

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Speaker 1: beds like marys. I don't think that is the same era,

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Speaker 1: in the same ground rules. Yeah, you may know that

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Speaker 1: when Lucille Ball became pregnant in real life, they wrote

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Speaker 1: it into the show, so Lucy Ricardo was they couldn't

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Speaker 1: use the word pregnant. Yeah, I didn't know whoa what

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Speaker 1: did they say? Gnant's expecting. Those shows were even at

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Speaker 1: the time, but we didn't criticize them for that. They

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Speaker 1: were not just idealistic, they were antiseptically idealists. And there

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Speaker 1: were no four letter words, there were no double entendres,

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Speaker 1: there was no violence, there's no irony, no iron It

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Speaker 1: was all straight faced and sincere and America loved. America

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Speaker 1: embraced these shows. America of that time embraced these shows

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Speaker 1: fully and wholeheartedly because they represented what was considered the ideal.

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Speaker 1: And yes, they were all white, they were whiter than white.

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Speaker 1: And this black and white TV show presents a world

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Speaker 1: that he would be very comfortable living in. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: would bring him happiness, he feels. So the next major

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Speaker 1: thing that happens in the story is that Mary Sue

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Speaker 1: teaches her mom about sex and masturbation, and then her

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Speaker 1: mom gets into the bathtub has a little fun, little

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Speaker 1: time with theirselves. That's what I call masturbation. I know,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. And she has an orgasm that causes

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Speaker 1: a tree to spontaneously combust outside, which is what happens

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Speaker 1: every time a woman comes how you know she is

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Speaker 1: not more people should be talking about that. I know,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, that's why there are so many

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Speaker 1: forest fires. So then Bud goes to the fire department

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Speaker 1: and then how has to teach them how to put

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Speaker 1: out fires. But this uh incites a curiosity in people

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Speaker 1: where they're like, well, uh, fires and all, but also

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Speaker 1: what's outside of Pleasantville and what are these books about?

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Speaker 1: And this girl named Margaret shows an interest in Bud

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Speaker 1: and they end up going out and then starts to

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Speaker 1: like open up to things changing. Meanwhile, Betty is vibing

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Speaker 1: with Mr Johnson, Mary Sue is turning down sex with

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Speaker 1: Skip to read instead um, and then the first time

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Speaker 1: for the first time in her life pretty much yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then George, their dad, is freaking out about his

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Speaker 1: dinner not being ready on the table for him. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He's freaking on about change, as is the mayor and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other like old men in the community,

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Speaker 1: and they are very resistant to all this change. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: like the TV repair man is like, what do you

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Speaker 1: guys doing to Pleasantville, and Buds like, screw you, this

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Speaker 1: is what you wanted, don knots You've made your bed.

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Speaker 1: So basically, the mayor is like, make pleasant Ville grade

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Speaker 1: again and tries to enforce like segregation because all these

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Speaker 1: people are turning to color and there. Yeah, they they

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Speaker 1: hit you over the head with with what they're metaphor. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well they're they're afraid of the other, the others, and

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Speaker 1: they I mean they go so far as to say

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Speaker 1: like coloreds, like they write and will unpack that. There's

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Speaker 1: like proud boys who are like burning books and vandalizing

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Speaker 1: storefronts and stuff like that. Also Betty and um Mr

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Speaker 1: Johnson and Mr Johnson fall in love. They're they're beautiful

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Speaker 1: out there freaking, and the mayor creates this code of

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Speaker 1: conduct that prohibits all the stuff that has been changing

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Speaker 1: about Pleasantville. And then, in an act of defiance, it's

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Speaker 1: like no more dancing and fun music only John Phillips

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Speaker 1: Susan marches for are you kids? Um? So, in an

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Speaker 1: act of defiance, Bud and Mr Johnson paint a mural,

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Speaker 1: depictively ugly mural, but because I like the message. It's

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Speaker 1: depicting all the everything that's been happening, Like, yes, there's

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Speaker 1: a copy of my favorite part that I thought was

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Speaker 1: silly on the mural was a copy of Catcher in

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Speaker 1: the Rye flying to Heaven. It's like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: but sure, why not. So the two of them are

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Speaker 1: put on trial, but is defending them against the mayor,

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Speaker 1: and he's trying to prove the point of like, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe some things are better than pleasant, like stuff like

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Speaker 1: being silly or being sexy. And then he gets his

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Speaker 1: dad to turn to color, and then the mayor gets

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Speaker 1: so piste off that he turns to color. And then

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Speaker 1: everyone goes outside and the whole town is in color,

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Speaker 1: and everything's changed for the better is the message of

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Speaker 1: the movie. And then Toby McGuire goes back to the

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Speaker 1: nineties nineties to spread the message of I like to

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Speaker 1: picture him going to his friend after me because I've

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Speaker 1: been stuck in a TV. They're like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: he's on d MT. But and then Reese Weatherspoon decides

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Speaker 1: to stay yes, and that is she starts to stay

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Speaker 1: in Pleasantville and pursue her studies. Yes, she says, I've

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Speaker 1: done this slet thing. Yeah, and now she wants to

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Speaker 1: try something different. It is also worth unpackaged. She's done. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One word you haven't used in your in your description repressed. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That may be the ultimate adjective to describe all the

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Speaker 1: people and the society in which they live. It is

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Speaker 1: holy and resolutely repressed, not just sexually repressed, but repressed

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Speaker 1: in other other ways, to which seems to be what

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Speaker 1: makes it so appealing to David in the first place,

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Speaker 1: where there's that scene that I mostly liked, where when

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Speaker 1: they're still in the nineties and his mom is on

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Speaker 1: the phone and she's having an argument about custody and

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Speaker 1: all this stuff, and he's just watching Plauseanville and totally

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Speaker 1: ignoring it and repressing any of that, and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it makes sense that of very repressed environment would be

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Speaker 1: appealing to him. It's like, oh, no, one has problems,

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Speaker 1: and if they do, it's not discussed. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: the kind of place I wanted. And he goes there, um,

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Speaker 1: where we know from the beginning that that's not Jennifer's

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Speaker 1: deal at all. She's very forward about what she wants

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Speaker 1: to do, and so of course you would hate it there. Right. Um,

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Speaker 1: we got to take a quick break, but then we'll

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Speaker 1: come right back after these messages and we're back, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So the big thing about this movie, my big issue

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Speaker 1: with it, and then we can talk about some of

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Speaker 1: the other stuff. And we've already touched on this a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but the movie attempts to become this metaphor

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Speaker 1: for because it's borrowing like language and imagery and other

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Speaker 1: socially relevant things from civil rights Sarah. The race subplot

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Speaker 1: on this viewing didn't didn't do much for me, even

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Speaker 1: though I I understand and you know, contextually what they

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Speaker 1: were trying to do. I just didn't feel like this

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Speaker 1: set up lend itself particularly well to making the point

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Speaker 1: that they were trying to make um. And also that's

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Speaker 1: introduced so late into the movie, where it's like the

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Speaker 1: movie is almost over and they're like, no, now it's

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Speaker 1: about race, and you're like why, Like what what? Because

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Speaker 1: it's that's been established, which makes sense for the context

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Speaker 1: of what the show Pleasantville would be, which would be

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Speaker 1: an entirely white cast. But then that means that the

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Speaker 1: world that everyone's existing in is made up entirely of

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Speaker 1: white people. And then to introduce this race metaphor using

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Speaker 1: only white people just doesn't work when we're watching it

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Speaker 1: through the lens of two thousand nineteen. Yeah, that that

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Speaker 1: part of the movie did not age well for me. Well,

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Speaker 1: I see, it's it's all it's all a matter of

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Speaker 1: perspective having grown up then there were no black people

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Speaker 1: on TV in those sitcoms that I can recall, certainly

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Speaker 1: not in recurring roles if at all, and being pre

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Speaker 1: civil rights, which all those shows were, although some of

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Speaker 1: them drifted into the era that was for many people

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Speaker 1: a definition and an absolute snapshot of American life. Remember,

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Speaker 1: they did throw in its un silly, but they threw

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Speaker 1: in a couple of black people into the like when

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00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: you go to Pleasantville there, that's like two. But they're

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Speaker 1: they're really don't minimal that I sometimes, but I think

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Speaker 1: they did that. First of all, we we are not

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Speaker 1: big analyzers in general because we watched so many movies.

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Speaker 1: If we sat and went through absolutely everything, I think

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Speaker 1: we'd all lose our minds but also come to life

401
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Speaker 1: our life. But also it's it's the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: where I don't necessarily think that everything has to be

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Speaker 1: analyzed deeply. And so for me watching the movie, it

404
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: would be weird if suddenly, instead of turning the color,

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Speaker 1: they turned black, Like that's not what you want to

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00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: have happened. That's even stranger, you know, but racial. I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying it's to work that in since they do

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Speaker 1: choose to go down a race road. Um it would

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Speaker 1: have been stranger to suddenly have a black person pop up.

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Speaker 1: So I think the problem with this movie is that

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Speaker 1: they are introducing this like civil rights metaphor into a

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Speaker 1: sort when they didn't need to do that. If it

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Speaker 1: was just about sort of like the enlightenment of people

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Speaker 1: in terms of like women's sexuality, which is a thing

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Speaker 1: that gets established, and then they leave the race thing

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Speaker 1: alone because they're only they only have white people with

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Speaker 1: which to carry out whatever metaphor they're trying to carry out. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just felt like wouldn't they were taking a big

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Speaker 1: hit if they hadn't addressed it at all. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of the just that there may have been

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Speaker 1: a better way to do it. I don't. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: and I don't how an idea as to what that

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Speaker 1: may be. But I don't know. I just felt like

424
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: the movie bit off a little more than it could chew,

425
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: and in terms of like addressing all the evils of

426
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: this era, it didn't seem equipped to address civil rights.

427
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: If one of the particular things about the movie is

428
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: because it takes place in this all white sitcom. How

429
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just like it almost seems like

430
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: it's for me. It attacks the women's sexuality and women's

431
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: liberations so effectively that that seems like it was very

432
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: well equipped to do that and not so well equipped

433
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: to do you feeling any of those things then the

434
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: first time I sat because that's the other part of it.

435
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: And that's what is so tricky about looking back at

436
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: movies is that movie is now twenty years old, which

437
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: is crazy. First of all, that's crazy, but it's twenty

438
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: years old, and it's really hard. And I think I

439
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: think the reason that my dad and I are sort

440
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: of used to turning certain parts off is because we

441
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: watch old movies. I was, you know, my dad raised

442
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: me on certain things, and there's definitely stuff that will

443
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: watch sometimes that that I can't the step and fetch it.

444
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: Characters I have a really hard time with. Do you

445
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: know these are? I mean, like, so what we saw

446
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: Charlie Chan. There were stereotypes, common stereotypes in movies for

447
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 1: many decades. Every irishman was a cop, Every Chinese person

448
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: was a laundryman or woman. Every Italian was a grocer

449
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: or a fruit vendor or an organ grinder. If you

450
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: can believe that every Greek person owned a diner, and

451
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: every black person was a pullman porter on railroad cars

452
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: or or a personal maid to a fancy white woman.

453
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: So step and fetch it. Step and fetch it was

454
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: the name of a performer. Stay name of a Performer's

455
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 1: name was Lincoln Perry, who played the laziest person on

456
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: the planet. So because that was that was his his

457
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: stage name, that became sort of a name used for

458
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: that kind of a character. So step and fetch it,

459
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: and you know Heckel and Jekyl and Dumbo. Yeah, that's

460
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: sort of a thing. But watching those today, I sometimes

461
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: will watch something and I'll say to my dad, this

462
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: is too much, like I can't it hurts me to

463
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: watch this. At the same time, we watch so many

464
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: things where I mean, you name it happens, and so

465
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: I think that we are used to turning parts off

466
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: because you can't look at a movie with today's eyes.

467
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: You just kind of can't. Yeah, yeah, I see what

468
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: you're saying. And I've had to, like, I mean, when

469
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: I even when I go to watch movies at the theater,

470
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,719
Speaker 1: I often have to, like, you know, take off my

471
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: bactel cast goggles. Just to enjoy anything. But what we

472
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: so often find when we do analyze movies for this

473
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: podcast is that the movies that we've seen, you know,

474
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: pre two thousand eighteen, you know, like I mean, and

475
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: and also they send messages or they have they erase

476
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: certain things, or they portray certain people in certain ways

477
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: that have negatively impacted society at large. And on this podcast,

478
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: you know, we have to be like, oh, you know,

479
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: when I watched you know, Indiana Jones growing up, like

480
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: that fucked me up. There's all these characters, white characters

481
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: in brown face. There's all these you know, not good

482
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: portrayals of women, uh, you know, stuff like that. So like, yeah,

483
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: I know, we have to in order to enjoy any

484
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: entertainment kind of have to shut off our analytical brains sometimes,

485
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: but specifically go to me when it's older that that.

486
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: I don't mean now, because if you walk in and

487
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: see something like that now, you go really, guys, really guys.

488
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: But if you're even just twenty years ago, even there,

489
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: you start to hit these kind of roadblocks. I think

490
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: there is a way to have it both ways a

491
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, where it's it's like I when I

492
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: when I watch I totally agree with you where I

493
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: when I watched movies for this show, I watch it

494
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: differently than if I'm just enjoying it um because otherwise,

495
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's just harder to enjoy things. But it does,

496
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: I don't know it. It's it's been helpful for me,

497
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: and it hasn't really Like with some egregious exceptions, most

498
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: of my favorite movies haven't necessarily changed as a result

499
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: of turning off my compartmentalization to watch it. It's just,

500
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, just creates a more aware picture of

501
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: something that I know I like. And it was I

502
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: mean with this movie, which I still think is a

503
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: good movie, and you know it's still one of your favorites,

504
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: and it's just I don't know. It's it is interesting

505
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: and I think it's very yeah, entertaining movie that I

506
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: wouldn't call it a message movie, but it's a movie

507
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: that makes a point or two. Yeah, So with the

508
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: entertainment and the enjoyment and the past and production design

509
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: too beautiful, stunning, gene Apple walls, brilliant, and it leaves

510
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: you with something to chew on, right, how hard you

511
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: want to chew, It's up to you. What I mean

512
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: when I say that sort of the turning certain parts off,

513
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: it's that we won't notice something, and then if you

514
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: say this made no sense or I don't like how

515
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: that worked out for both of us will sort of

516
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: go yeah, but when we watch something initially, we're pretty

517
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,719
Speaker 1: good at sort of not doing it. So how does

518
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: this movie fair on the Bechtel scale? Well, well we'll

519
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: find that out. There's there's still a bunch to talk

520
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: about for me. The Yeah, So basically, the I think

521
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: the biggest issue I have with this movie, and then

522
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: we can get into some other stuff that I think

523
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: we think the movie does effectively is just again to

524
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: radio reiterate the fact that it's equating white people who

525
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: have turned from being in like black and white to color,

526
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: equating them to actual people of color, and then trying

527
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: to make this metaphor just doesn't work when we're looking

528
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: at it through today's lens. So yeah, it's just a

529
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: case of false equivalence. And then sort of a weird

530
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: victory lap at the end of like we saw racism

531
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: in pleasant Ville, It's like, well, that would be pretty

532
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: easy to do if there are no people of color,

533
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: it's only white people. Um, but with that we're going

534
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: to take a quick break and then talk about the

535
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: betrayal of women. They we're back. So in terms of

536
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: the female characters in the movie, one of the first

537
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: things that I noticed upon this rewatch that I, I

538
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: guess was like kind of subconsciously but like hadn't given

539
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: it much thought until watching the movie for the podcast,

540
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: but I was like, Oh, a woman's sexuality is what

541
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: incites all the changes in pleasant Ville. Like that's the

542
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: catalyst that gets things to start happening. That's the catalyst.

543
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that there are some other things

544
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, women seem to prompt most of

545
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: the changes inside and and there. It was pretty sexually

546
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: heavy at the beginning, where Jennifer is the one who

547
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: I thought pretty effectively, you know, meet Skip and is

548
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: forward and like this is what I want to do

549
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: and oh you don't know how to do this. Here's

550
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: how you do it? Want to do it? Great? Uh?

551
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: And they do it. I should say, do it more?

552
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah uh. And then the same with Betty's character, who

553
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: literally sets the town on fire by masturbating once. But

554
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: but then that that word repression, Yeah, I mean, that's

555
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: how repressed she was. It's it's it's almost like a

556
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: cartoon exaggeration, right, But that's why it's such a funny moment, right,

557
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: It's a great I mean, I love that I forgot

558
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: that moment happened because I just hadn't seen it in

559
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: a few years and I was like, Oh, my god,

560
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: I guess what that is, like the scene I remember

561
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: from this movie because it is I think the first

562
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: movie I've ever seen where you see the suggestion of

563
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,959
Speaker 1: a woman masturbating. Incredible suggestion of a woman having having

564
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: an orgasm in a movie like that was the first

565
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: time I had ever seen that, and I was like, Oh,

566
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: what a difference can make. H Yeah, I mean, and

567
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: it's still I mean, it's still not super common, but

568
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 1: that this was definitely one of the first movies where

569
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: female masturbation was suggested and visually implied as well, in

570
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: a way that didn't see him like talking down to

571
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: it of like it literally is a catalyst. Yeah, hich

572
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: I love I love the way that the thing that

573
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: will drive us both nuts is anything gratuitous, and that

574
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: is whether it's foul language where someone saying fun every

575
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: five seconds and somehow that's supposed to be let you

576
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: know the script, it's lazy, same kind of thing nudity.

577
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: When nudity fits and makes sense, none of us react

578
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: to it, not in a big way. When someone is

579
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: standing there naked and you understand that it's because they

580
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: want them to stand there naked, that's when I say

581
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: I don't like this. So what I appreciate about that

582
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: scene especially is we all understand no one needs to

583
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 1: see what she's doing. We all get it. And whether

584
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: it's you know, whether it's just that she's pampering herself.

585
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 1: That's the other part. Two is that if someone didn't

586
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: know what she was doing, let's just say someone younger

587
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: watching it didn't know what she was doing, they may

588
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: just think that that she's pampering herself. And she's never

589
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: does that. She's drawn a bubble back, which narratively doing

590
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: something for herself. She handles, she like candles. There, she's

591
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: she's in that bathtub having her time. So it could

592
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: work either way. I wouldn't have minded that. But I

593
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: think the good thing about the I mean I think

594
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: it fits with the story to or like in what

595
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: world of pleasant Ville the TV show are you going

596
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: to see? Like Titti's not uh, and also it just

597
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 1: allows it to be PG. Thirteen and so, I mean,

598
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: I think this is like a cool movie for young

599
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: women to see. I mean, and like, gratuitous female nudity

600
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: is something that we come up against a lot on

601
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: this podcast where we're like, and the other thing is

602
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: that oftentimes female sexuality is something that's villainized in a

603
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: movie where a villain, a female villain will be like

604
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 1: overly sexual, and that's something where we use the audience

605
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: are meant to think like, oh no, she's like loose

606
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: and that's that's part of what makes her evil or whatever.

607
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: But in this movie, the female sexuality change, it's what

608
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: leads to an increased curiosity from like different people in

609
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: the know to be like basically like, what's a fire

610
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: and why does it? What's the word? My favorite thing,

611
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: honestly is fire. Yeah, fire, fire cat every time. It

612
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 1: makes me laugh every single time. Cats do have eight nipples.

613
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: This is kind and I think it would have been

614
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: such an easy, lazy choice for the men to become

615
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: sexually aware of first and sort of gone in a

616
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: more fratty direction with it. And the fact that Jennifer's

617
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 1: character is basically the sex said teacher for this entire

618
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: world was really cool. And and the fact that I mean,

619
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: and they were like little moments where I thought Jennifer

620
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: was it was maybe the character was sort of talked

621
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: down to and made to be like, oh, she's like

622
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: a high school slut like that was sort of, but

623
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: she's so in charge of her own sexuality and so

624
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: calling the shots at every point in the narrative. And

625
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: then where her character goes where it seems like, I mean,

626
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: the rules for what makes you technical or aren't caught it.

627
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like some emotional response or something

628
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: new that is fulfilling to you. Because at first it

629
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: seems like, oh, if you have sex, now you're in technicolor.

630
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: But then that doesn't happen for Jennifer because she's been

631
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: having sex, so it's like not new and exciting, And

632
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: what is new and exciting is education and learning stuff,

633
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: which was the one thing I was waiting to happen

634
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: because I had never watched this movie with this lens

635
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: before of like, oh, it would be a bummer if

636
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: it was only sex that you know, activated women, But

637
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: but then you do see a few different things, and

638
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: Jennifer's story was really I don't know. I forgot that

639
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: that was her. The Mayor turning color is that he

640
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: gets angry, but angry in such a serious way. He

641
00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: becomes unpleasant. But that's it each person, did you say,

642
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: it's it's something within them. So it depends on what

643
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: you need. It depends on yeh who they had been

644
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: established previously, and then there once they undergo their character arc,

645
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. That's sort of what is the

646
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: catalyst for their changing of colors. And then for David,

647
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: he changes colors when I'm just I keep whenever say

648
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: it changes colors. I think of the horse from the

649
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz. But he changes colors when he has

650
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 1: to defend his TV mom from the Pleasantville Proud Boys

651
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,919
Speaker 1: who are lunging at her because there was a nude

652
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: painting done of her by Jeff Daniels, which I don't

653
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: Does he ask her if that's cool? Or does he

654
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: just do that? We don't That all happen happens off screen,

655
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: and I have to she's consenting to it. Yeah, it

656
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like he's done something terrible, clear because she's

657
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 1: not wanted. And then she's there with him painting, which

658
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: is true, going off of like, um, the Mary Sue

659
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 1: character like having all of her agency and being sex

660
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: positive essentially and like spreading the gift of sex to people.

661
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: That then inspires the Betty character to also like have

662
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: her agency when it comes to her sexuality, because she's

663
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: the one who keeps approaching Bill Johnson. That's his name, right,

664
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: and she keeps like going to him and saying, like,

665
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: let's let's experiment. I mean, we can presume a lot

666
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: of this kind of happens off screen, but we do

667
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: see her approaching him kind of with the intent of, like,

668
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: let's get naked. The women in this movie are forward

669
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: and state what they want, and usually the men are like,

670
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 1: oh sick. But then, but that would be a great

671
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: line of the film. Daniels just goes, someone says cool

672
00:40:54,920 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: in this movie and it's a big But then where

673
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 1: the Mary Sue character leaves off, I don't know quite

674
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: how to feel about this. Well, even before that, where

675
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: first she's the one whose sexuality like sets the wheels

676
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: in motion for the whole town of Pleasantville, but then

677
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: later when she chooses like reading and studying over sex,

678
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: and then she says later on like I've tried the

679
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: slept thing. It got kind of old. It's great that

680
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: she's like trying to enrich her life intellectually, but then

681
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: that means she ends up sacrificing her sexuality, which kind

682
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: of a mixed message. I don't think that. I think

683
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: I think that her saying I've done the slept thing

684
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 1: is her sort of saying that I've tried different parts

685
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: of myself. I've looked at different parts of myself. So

686
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: now it's the sort of thing where you feel like

687
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: she'll do it when she wants to. I think that's

688
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: the difference, is as opposed to doing something because she

689
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: has a reputation or she wants trying to be more popular,

690
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: you know, she wants she she has that she's leading

691
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: the women in and stuff like that. It's it's in

692
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: this case, she's sort of saying, this is what I

693
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: want to do right now, in the same way that

694
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: when Skip comes to her window is like hey, hey,

695
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: and she's I'm studying, so I thought we could go

696
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 1: and I'm studying and she closes it. So that's sort

697
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: of to me. It's more so that that it's her saying,

698
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: I've made the decision that this is my focus now.

699
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: I don't think she's saying and I'll never have and

700
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: the Nunnery is now because we do see a shot

701
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: of her at the very end at university and she's

702
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: like flirting with a man and she's got a book

703
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: open in her lap in front of her, So she's

704
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: having that she's having at all at all. Another thing

705
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: that kind of not necessarily rubbed me the wrong way,

706
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 1: but it is at least worth mentioning, is that the

707
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: thing that gets Jennifer to want to play along in

708
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: Pleasantville is a man so like and that makes sense

709
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: for her character, like she had been established as this

710
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: kind of like boy crazy teen. But the fact remains

711
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 1: that a woman is motivated in a movie to engage

712
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: with what's happening in the story by a man. Oh,

713
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: I think you could say the same thing as the

714
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 1: Betty character if if that's they are stuper using because

715
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 1: she I yeah, I mean Betty gets It's interesting because

716
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: I love the relationship between Jennifer and Betty, and I

717
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: almost wish we saw a little more of that because

718
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 1: the scene that we the scenes we see them together

719
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: in are so like they're great and they're talking to

720
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: each other about stuff that women were not supposed to

721
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 1: talk to each other about and learning and educating each other.

722
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: But then I mean, I guess this would probably be

723
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: realistic for that time. But Betty, you know, goes from

724
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: one man to another man, and so it's a combination

725
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: of you know, she gets some of the motivation from

726
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 1: what she learned from Jennifer. But would she have left

727
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: her husband if there weren't a Jeff Daniel's waiting in

728
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: the wings? We don't know. But see, we don't know

729
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: that they get together. They were talking about this interesting

730
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: because you see that she goes to him, but we

731
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: don't see her with him, and at no point do

732
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: we see her because I say that we were just

733
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: talking about this in the car. She does what she

734
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: wants to do, and if she did, what I feel

735
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: like is if she did just go straight to Jeff Daniels,

736
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: everything would sort of be lost because then you go

737
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: all the stuff you just did, you just went from

738
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: one man to the other. We don't know that, and

739
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: that's why the very end where you see the three

740
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: of them sitting on the mark, and it's sort of like, yeah,

741
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: she can do whatever she wants. So we don't really

742
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: see anything. But that's you don't really see anything that

743
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: tells you that now she's with him. We understand that

744
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: they sort of had a romantic night, but we don't

745
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: know what they're going to do from there. He really

746
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 1: Jack Dawson's her, right, he does a Jack Dawson glass

747
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: to paint Hello. That's that is a relief, I guess. Yeah.

748
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: I sort of was like projecting that foregone conclusion. I hope, yeah,

749
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: that these character. You know, she explores her options. If

750
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: she wants to get together with Bill, she can do that,

751
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: but the difference is wanting, right, she wants to choose

752
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 1: this person, and that is a big difference to everything else. Yeah. Right,

753
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: Because her arc basically goes from her starting out as

754
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: this like cheery housewife who's making the meal she's eat up, yeah,

755
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: subscribing holy to the to the status quo of Pleasantville.

756
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: And then she learns about sexuality and she knows her

757
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: husband won't go for it, so she masturbates and pleasures

758
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 1: herself or William when they cut back to him when

759
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: she's in the bathroom and he's trying to get comfortable

760
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: and in his twin sized bed, like and then shortly

761
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: after that she turns to color, but she's too ashamed

762
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: and she's not really ready to embrace this. Another repression moment, right,

763
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: So she covers herself all up with makeup. That's a

764
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: very sweet moment though, Yeah, with her in turn McGuire,

765
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: that's a very sweet It's a very tender because on

766
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: the one hand, obviously she's trying to hide that she's

767
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 1: turned color. But at the same time, that's a really

768
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 1: sweet moment with them. And then of course later on

769
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 1: when they when Jeff Daniels ropes off the makeup, that's

770
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: the other weeping right, Yeah, I can't beautiful just the

771
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: way you are, which she's like. I loved, I loved

772
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 1: that scene with her and Toby McGuire, especially because it

773
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: was I mean, she you could see the repression in

774
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: the shame of like I've changed and I'm not ready

775
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: for people to know that. And he, you know, even

776
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: though he knows, you know, she'll probably she may be

777
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: happier if she, you know, it's just herself in the world.

778
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: He like accepts that she's not ready and that's not appropriate.

779
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: She will be she knows she will be ostracized. Yeah,

780
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: if not burned at the steak Yeah, right by the pleasant,

781
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: feel proud boy yeah um, and then where her are

782
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,439
Speaker 1: ends is well before the kind of conclusion of her

783
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: character arc, we see William H. Macy's character being like,

784
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 1: where's Mari dinner, like, still expecting her to be like

785
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: the homemaker caregiver role, and then whenever he confronts her

786
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: about it, she's just like, no, I'm not going to

787
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: do that anymore. Because he's like, he lays down some

788
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: like terms and conditions, like you're going to go to

789
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: this tom meeting you every day. Yeah. I like that.

790
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: He's made out to be like the du fust idiot

791
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: who were not supposed to like in that stand and

792
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: she's just like, no, I'm going to do whatever I

793
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: want and you can't do anything about it, right, and

794
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: I mean, and then you get the like sincere growth

795
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 1: of his character too, where he I mean, we see

796
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 1: him be like I don't know how to I'm eating olives,

797
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: which relatable as someone who can't cook and lots of

798
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: lots of them. The scene went in the courthouse where

799
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: Toby Guyer's talking to William H. Macy and in that

800
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: moment saying doesn't she look beautiful? Don't you love her?

801
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: And he's crying and you're just like, oh my god,

802
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: so beautiful because there too, it's a nice thing they

803
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: don't make Will you make Macy's character evil? No, he's

804
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: not a bad man. Where the mayor is sort of seen,

805
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: is this, oh fish, I think he's as close to

806
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: a villain. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah, but will you

807
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: h Macy? If he was terrible, then you would have no, yeah,

808
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: leave him? Why would you want to be with that guy?

809
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: But he's not that. Yeah, but this is also what

810
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: he knows well. It's like the in the courtroom scene

811
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: where Toby McGuire is trying to basically get Macy to

812
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: turn to color. He's saying, like, it's not just the

813
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 1: cooking and the cleaning that you enjoy. Maybe it's because

814
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: you actually like her for her personality, and it's like

815
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: and it never occurred to it, which like is a

816
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: very cartoonish thing. But also these are cartoonish characters. Yeah.

817
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,760
Speaker 1: I really ended up appreciated, like the William Macy character.

818
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,320
Speaker 1: Something that I don't think is super common in movies

819
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 1: even now is to see a male character who has

820
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: entirely the wrong idea about women, who is you know,

821
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: spoken to directly and then is made to seem capable

822
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: of change. I feel like that is something I'd like

823
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: to see more of in movies because it is like

824
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: cathartic and exciting for me to see a guy be

825
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: you know, punished for being an asshole. And I'm all

826
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: for seeing that. But also I think for like male

827
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: movie cars, especially like young male movie cars, that can

828
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: be a positive thing to see some someone who is

829
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: not treating women the way they should be and then

830
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: seeing them be called out and then begin to change

831
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: and making that seem like a viable course of action

832
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: is thing that like younger boys should see more of.

833
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: As much as I was concerned for Jesse growing up

834
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: not having a good female role models, I was also

835
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: just as a person aware that there weren't very many

836
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: good male role models. Yeah almost none. Yeah, which is

837
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: crazy because there's so many you know where were again nuance, Uh,

838
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: three dimensional characters something to pattern yourself, pattern your life after.

839
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: Oh that that guy really has his act together, you know,

840
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: and he is he's smart, he's capable, he's I don't

841
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: want to keep using the word enlightened, but that's the

842
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: one that seems to come to mind. And uh, and

843
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: there are a damn few of those. Yeah then or now? Yeah,

844
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: absolutely something I love And I thought about this then

845
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: and I think about it now. But the whole thing

846
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: of both Jeff Daniels and William H. Macy being good

847
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: people means that it's not an easy decision. And the

848
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: film that I always relate that to is The Notebook. Now,

849
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: I'm not a die hard Notebook person. I like the

850
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: movie fine, but I do know it. But I've always

851
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: really appreciated that the two men she had to choose

852
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: from from We're Good Men, Ryan Casson and James Mars

853
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: James margin. But the whole thing is, you know, normally

854
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: there's the there's like the Jack Dawson and you know

855
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: and Rose where she's with a terrible man. So there's

856
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: no question, you know, she should go to to the

857
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: other guy. It's much more complex to say both of

858
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: these are good options, and so with Joan Allen. But

859
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: that's if Joan Allen. You know, if William and Macy's

860
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: character was one dimensional and just like I don't care

861
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: about you, I just want my food, then there's no

862
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: question go go to go to the other guy. But

863
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: when you layer it and you say no, it's not

864
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: cut and dry like that. It's not that simple. I

865
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: appreciate that. I appreciate doing something different absolutely. And then

866
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: I think with like the Toby Maguire character in his

867
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: different like whether he's being David or whether he's being Bud,

868
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: Like he's a sensitive guy who is like there's a

869
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: whole scene where he puts makeup on his mom, like

870
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: how many But then the last scene with him and

871
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: jenekas Merrick right exactly where where he's comforting her because

872
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, she's having romantic problems with her boyfriend or whatever,

873
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: please clean up her makeup. So that's it's obviously a

874
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: callback that you see, you know, you see with Joan

875
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: Allen doing it now he's doing with his real mom.

876
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: But that makes that moment so much more tender because

877
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: you believe, I feel like and his character doesn't go

878
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 1: from like bad too good. He just goes from repressed

879
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 1: to less repressed, which is like a cool, a cool

880
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: arc to see someone got through. Um. Any other final

881
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: thoughts about the movie. I think it holds up really

882
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 1: well in general. I think it holds up really well.

883
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: The performances still all feel real. Um, that's the thing.

884
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: The pieces even if the whole is not perfect. To me,

885
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: the pieces are absolutely worth it, and if you can

886
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 1: sort of deal with the other stuff, of course, someone

887
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: watching it for the first time going to have a

888
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 1: completely different experience. And that's true all movies. If you

889
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: love something, you love it. And so I can't look

890
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: at it now and say, we'll let me be completely objective.

891
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: I can. I love the movie. I've seen it a

892
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: million times, but I do think compared to some especially

893
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: it holds up well. Yeah. I think aside from like

894
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: the very like late nineties idea of like progressive ism

895
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: of like white people who turned to technicolor is the

896
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: same thing as a civil rights movement. But aside aside

897
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: from that, like, yeah, I do genuinely think this movie

898
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,720
Speaker 1: holds up pretty well. I still enjoy it. I'll still

899
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: watch it. Um. I just have to point out that

900
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: there's like trivia in the beginning where David's like practicing

901
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,879
Speaker 1: for the marathon, and one of the questions is what

902
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: did Bud and Mary soon na the cat that they

903
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: found in the gutter. The answer is marmalade, which I

904
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: have to pay for that. You know, Paddington is his

905
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: favorite food, so just have to mention just shout out

906
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: to Paddington. Is there a part you feel like Alfred

907
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: Molina would have played well in this movie? Oh? I

908
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: think he would have been a good mayor because he's,

909
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: oh you know what, he plays basically well, he plays

910
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 1: basically that same character in Chako La. I know I'd

911
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: like to see with Mr Johnson. I was gonna say,

912
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: I was as I love I love Jeff Daniels, but

913
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: I love Alfred Molina in a romantic role. Sure, yeah,

914
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: that would be my pick. Okay, Yeah, that's great. That's

915
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 1: that's my final thought. Does this movie pass the Bechdel tests? Yes,

916
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: it does does a couple of times. A few of

917
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: them are just like very throwaway moments where Joan Allen

918
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,879
Speaker 1: is like, I just love that sweater on you, Mary Sue.

919
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: It's so flattering. He says, thanks, thanks um, And then

920
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: there's a couple other like have breakfast now, or like

921
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: get off to school okay, and she's like, I'm not hungry.

922
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: But the big scene is the one where Jennifer as

923
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 1: Mary Sue is teaching Joan Allen's character about sex. And yeah,

924
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:34,919
Speaker 1: they're they're doing household chores, but they're talking about masturbation,

925
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: which begs the question where did Mary, Sue and Bud

926
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: come from? If Joan Allen's character has never had sex,

927
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: they did, Well, they live in in a universe where

928
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:50,439
Speaker 1: uh story started. They started with two people going into

929
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:55,879
Speaker 1: a TV show where why are they having sex? Yeah?

930
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: I guess it's just like the story the Baby. They

931
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: all show that when season one started, and they were

932
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 1: the way they were. So but yeah, there's there's a

933
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: fairly long scene where she's like, yeah, again, what they're

934
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 1: talking about hetero sex. So whether or not that passes

935
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 1: the Bechtel test is up for debate because you're talking

936
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: about like having sex with a man, but then but

937
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,399
Speaker 1: then it turns to masturbation. I would give that scene

938
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: a pass for that reason. Yeah, so like it. The

939
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: context for me is like sex for pleasure and like

940
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:37,800
Speaker 1: sex for female pleasure. Yeah, it's not about minutes about them. Yeah,

941
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: the man is the tool literally, but he's the vessel. Yeah,

942
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 1: but yeah, I'll give us a pass for sure. Yeah,

943
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: so that I mean that. I just loved that scene

944
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: in general. Same shall we shall we write the movie?

945
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: Let's write it on our nipple scale zero to five

946
00:56:55,719 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: nipples based on its portrayal of women. Um, I think

947
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with a three. Um, I'm gonna take

948
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,879
Speaker 1: some nipples off because of the the whole discussion we've

949
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: already had regarding like, oh, white people solving racism. That's

950
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 1: my big problem with the movie. But then, um, looking

951
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: at Yeah, I mean the female characters who have agency,

952
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: especially in terms of their own sexuality. The Margaret character

953
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: we didn't really talk about a lot or at all,

954
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:34,439
Speaker 1: but that's the teen woman who Bud ends up, yeah,

955
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: ends up dating. She kind of really only exists in

956
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: the story to kind of like further developed Bud's character,

957
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: and she doesn't really have any bearing on this story,

958
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: so she's just kind of like one of these sort

959
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: of flat, one dimensional characters. But yeah, of the characters

960
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: we do get to know, Betty and Mary Sue slash Jennifer, Yeah,

961
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: I really like the the message that they help perpetuate

962
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: in the story. And yes, so I'll give it three nipples,

963
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 1: and um, I'll give all of them to the cat

964
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,919
Speaker 1: named Marmalade who we never meet on screen, although maybe

965
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: that's the cat that gets saved by the fireman in

966
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: the very beginning. Marmalade visibility is high. I'm gonna go

967
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna strictly do this writing based on how this

968
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: movie treats women, because I mean, I also did not

969
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,479
Speaker 1: care for the way that this movie tried to throw

970
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,919
Speaker 1: in civil rights, uh in the kind of this bizarro way,

971
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: but strictly based on how the movie treats women, I'm

972
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: gonna give it a four, only docking it really for

973
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: the b characters that are kind of a little bit tropy,

974
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: like the the you know, the friends in the nineties

975
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: and the fifties are kind of you know, like reductive

976
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: bimboie characters. Uh. And then I sort of agree with

977
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,479
Speaker 1: you about Margaret's character. It seemed like there was more there,

978
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: but there just wasn't time or real estate given. But

979
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: they were very sweet together. Yeah, they were definitely sweet.

980
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: I just I don't know anything about that character outside

981
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: of she's sort of you know, there to his his star.

982
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: Is there also like a Garden of Eden reference where

983
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 1: she's like here takes yeah, biblical milical imagery. I mean,

984
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:28,919
Speaker 1: the Bible is, of course if feminist text, but yeah,

985
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: in general, I really like that women becoming less repressed

986
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 1: and challenging norms is the catalyst for really most of

987
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 1: the change in the movie, and I thought it was

988
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: really well done. I still I still enjoy it. So

989
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: I'll do four. I'll give Wonder Race two to Joan

990
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: and one to Paul Walker because why not? Why not?

991
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: R I p Yeah, four nipples, Yeah, cool, solid, Yeah,

992
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: I'm good to sell Forward two on that basis. Yes,

993
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 1: it sounds great. Well, thanks so much for coming on

994
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: the podcast. I appreciate it. I'm having you. Is there

995
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 1: anything you would like to plug? Where can people follow

996
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 1: you online? He is at Leonard Walton. I'm at Jesse

997
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: Malton on Twitter and Instagram, and he has a Facebook page,

998
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: and there's Leonard Walton dot com and he writes movie

999
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 1: reviews there and does book ground ups in that type

1000
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: of stuff. And then May ten eleven twelve is Malton

1001
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: Fest first film festival. It's a hidden gem film festival,

1002
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: so we're not showing new stuff. We're showing recent movies

1003
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: that flew under the radar, recent but also some older

1004
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: ones just to keep things interesting. But yeah, it's it's

1005
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 1: the idea of just it's it's film appreciation and our

1006
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 1: our goal always in kind of everything we do is community. Um,

1007
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: the internet does not treat people, don't treat each other

1008
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: very nicely. Uh, and I think that it's really important

1009
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: to continually get them away from the computer into real

1010
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: We want to we want to bring people together. You

1011
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: want to take them out of Pleasantville the show. They're

1012
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: stuck in the world. We want to bring people together.

1013
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: We're gonna do it in the heart of Hollywood Egyptian Theater.

1014
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: So we're very exciting. And it's over Mother's Day weekend.

1015
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 1: So on the Sunday, my mom we're having like a

1016
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: Mother's Day thing for her and bring your mom's cool

1017
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: check that out and listen to Mountain Lawn movies and

1018
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 1: uh yeah, thanks again for being here. You can follow

1019
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: us on social media at Bectelcast. You can go to

1020
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: our website bactelcast dot com. We've got our episodes there,

1021
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 1: We've got our merch store there. Merch Yeah, what's on

1022
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:50,919
Speaker 1: what you're wearing? Jecame correct. I thought this right after

1023
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 1: we first met No no Dave meltdown when we had

1024
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: Alfred Molina on our show, which now the day we

1025
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: met you guys that that is actually necessary. Gunt for

1026
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: this episode was, Yeah, Aristotle the world's best engineer. The

1027
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 1: World's Best Engineer a shared engineer as a table found

1028
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: out through Jesse that Alfred Molina was going to be

1029
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: on Moltena Movies. So I took the day off. Caitlyn

1030
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: and I went to meltdown and I was I totally

1031
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 1: whipped out and I was too afraid to talk to him.

1032
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 1: Fast forward a year and a half he was on

1033
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: the show and our best being he's probably adore him.

1034
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: I absolutely adore him and of course an astonishing act

1035
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 1: one of the greatest actors honestly living. He's incredible, totally

1036
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: a friend of the show, and it was speaking of

1037
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: You can get feminist icon Alfred Molina merch, which he

1038
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: was low key horrifying. I think he loved it. You

1039
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: can get other merch designs like queer icon, feminist icon,

1040
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 1: um Strong Female protagonistist, as well as a few newer ones.

1041
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 1: The whole bit. Yeah, so check out our Tea Public

1042
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: story as well. We have merched on Tea Public. Grab

1043
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 1: some of that up. And also don't forget about our

1044
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 1: Patreon aka Matreon. You can go to patreon dot com

1045
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: slash spectel cast. It's five dollars a month and you

1046
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 1: get to bonus episodes every month, including all of the

1047
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: backlog of all of our past Matreon episodes. We'reted to

1048
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 1: creating content we simply can't st addicted, So check that

1049
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 1: out and we'll be here next week. Bye bye,