WEBVTT - V For Vendetta (Part 3) 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.640 Welcome back to Popcorn Book Club. It's still being November 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:10.960 just a little bit. We are still talking V four 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.720 Vendetta the graphic novel. We have made it to book three, 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.040 the final part of the graphic novel by Alan Moore 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.200 and illustrated by David Lloyd. Uh. The most dramatic, and 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:26.120 I will say, at some moments insane. Uh. And also 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:29.760 I also think we're it departs the most from the movie, 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:35.640 which will describe next week. Uh. So Book three, which 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.840 is called The Land of Do As You Please, Uh, 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:44.040 begins with the symphony of the blowing up Jordan's Tower, 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:49.240 which uh, I think that we'll get into the timeline 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:51.760 of the movie, which I think is a little cleaner. 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.600 But yeah, I really liked it. I really like the 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.720 timeline of the movie. But in this we also have 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.200 this on November. He blows up jordan Tower on November five, 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.480 and then November six, sort of the Land of Do 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:10.360 as You Please anarchy stuff sort of begins. So well, 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.319 it wasn't anarchy, it was chaos, chaos which he hopes 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:18.959 will become anarchy. But I thought it was really important 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.000 that they made that distinction because I think a lot 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:25.039 of people don't fully understand what anarchy is as a philosophy, 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.800 as opposed to just like colloquial usage of the word 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.880 anarchy anarchy were like, no one's in charge, it's anarchy, 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.679 and that's not the same thing. Yes, I don't know. 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.720 Just do you have a good understanding of what anarchy is, 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:40.800 because I'm not actually sure I know what it looks 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:43.200 like in practice. I don't think I know what it 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.160 looks like in practice, and I think I did not 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.600 have a very good understanding of it prior to reading 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:52.400 this book, because my idea of anarchy came from like 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:54.760 a meme that I saw on my Space, like two 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.840 thousand five. It was like, anarchy is bad because it's 0:01:57.880 --> 0:01:59.960 people running around, and you know what happens when everybody 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.320 is running around scraped knee. I was like, Oh, that 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.880 sounds terrible. I just think about the purge like it's like, oh, 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:09.960 it's one day of anarchy, no rules, and this is 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:15.640 a bunch of murder, murder. Daddy's everywhere, murder, daddy's murder, 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:21.400 mommy's murder, murder uncle. I will say, by the by 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.160 the end of this book, things do not appear to 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:28.240 be getting better unless we all felt the Catharsis, and 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.040 I guess ellen Bore wanted us to feel by watching 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.840 a wealthy woman get raped by a group of homelessman 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:40.080 A very weird ending to a book, but okay, I 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.519 guess that is what ellen Moore wanted to end on. 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.400 I think Alan Moore is very bad on women, and 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.400 I want to talk about that a little later and 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.119 the full thing. But I also want to say one 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:54.200 thing that I think is um starkly different from both 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.600 the film and sort of how the character of the 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.680 has been portrayed. He's not like a great guy, He's 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:04.640 not like the hero. He's like he has no charm 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.800 about him whatsoever. Like for me in the book, he's 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:13.200 like stop what the monologues dude? And you note but 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:17.480 deeply weird in a good way. There's a lot of 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.760 guy in your m f A under coming from ving. 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.680 There's this point at which Evie was like, can you 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:27.360 just say what you mean? And I would like, thank you, 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.960 thank you for actually saying that, But like, I think 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.520 this is a really good point where I've been seeing 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:35.680 a lot of stuff like on TikTok because I'm super 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.760 cool and young, and on TikTok about how um media 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:43.280 literacy means that you don't necessarily just because somebody is 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.320 the main character, have to identify with them, And just 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.720 because somebody's the main character does not mean that they 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:53.960 are correct. And I think that V as a flawed person. 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.640 I think we can all agree that VA is a 0:03:56.720 --> 0:04:00.920 deeply flawed person and he's not always correct, And this 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:05.720 monologueing at ev and not answering any questions directly is 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:10.320 just frankly infuriating. He also guess letter in the most 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.680 horrifying way I can imagine anybody being gas. I mean, 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.800 he plays games with her in ways that I think 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.840 the movie tries to make justifiable, and like in the 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.520 grand scheme of things, I would argue that like symbolically 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:26.760 they succeed. In the book, he comes off as much 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.080 less charming, much more insane, with a far less like 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:35.520 consistent ideology. And I think that Evie becomes spoiler like 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.400 becoming V at the end makes more sense if V 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:43.960 is like a deeply imperfect symbol and unlikable character, right. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:45.640 And it also has to do with the idea that 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:50.360 anarchy has two sides, destruction and creation, and he was 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.600 destruction and she was creation, and next week always talked 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:55.400 about the movie. I have more things I don't want 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.039 to say about that. So the thing that I wanted 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.640 to focus on first about three is a character that's 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:07.200 not in the movie, Rosemary, who goes through a journey 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:11.719 a brief recap. Rosemary is in an abusive marriage with 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.679 that of the ear who listens into all the phone tapping. 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:20.520 He dies, and then she starts sleeping with Roger Dascombe, 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.599 who's the head of the visual Jordan Tower at the 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.640 mouth thank you. Uh. He also dies. People think she's 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.640 deeply cursed because the last two dudes she slept with died. 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:35.280 She is miserable at the Sad Cabaret. Uh. She is 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:43.400 forced to work as a a burlesque dancer, a dancer 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.240 non consensually in the sense that she does not want 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.039 to do and she's doing it only for money that 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:53.640 she desperately needs. Uh. And then she's driven to murdering 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.800 to going full taxi driver and murdering Adam Susan in 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:03.360 the street in what this chore and in a way 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:08.719 that then talking about taxi driving in a way that 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.280 v then seems to argue that he orchestrated the whole thing. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.920 Because she is the last rose he cultivated. What did 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:21.000 you guys make of this subplot? I mean, she's what 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:26.599 a sad, sad character to like to have that be 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:31.000 her kind of whole arc of like, you know, being 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:36.360 subjugated to like the intense violent patriarchy of this particular society, 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:41.080 having her husband killed, but being sad about that loss, 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.640 to to like sit with that loss of this person 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.760 who was like deeply abusive to her as well, and 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.640 then to like go and just straight I mean just 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:55.600 straight up, point blank shoot that man. And the worst 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:57.880 the worst part for me is she doesn't even have 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:02.359 any like um agency in this because then they frame 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.240 it as the fact that she was all just part 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.920 of v scheme that he puppet mastered, this miserable woman, 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.400 and they also felt like not just no agency, but 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.560 like her character just really doesn't have any It doesn't 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:21.800 have any like full three dimensional like depth or I 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.440 don't know who she is outside of the horrible men 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:28.400 that she has been with, or like the horrible man 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.080 she kills at the end, like it like EVI, at 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:35.880 least you understand who she is and and she like you. 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.640 You kind of have this three sixty view of her, 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:43.000 but Rosemary just feels like this sad abuse lady who 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:48.280 then is up I guess upon and VI's whole chess game. 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:50.680 But I don't quite understand how he did that. I 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:55.040 don't get that either. Yeah, neither. It didn't make any sense, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:56.960 like there were there were plot holes you could drive 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:02.000 a mac dress true, especially bensidering, like I get that then, 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.560 or that the chaos is a part of these plan, 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.360 Like that makes sense, But then you can't say, yes, 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.600 I plan for chaos, but then within this chaos, I 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.520 plan for this woman to specifically go up to the 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:18.000 leader of the country and shoot him point blank, you know, 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.760 and it's gonna work perfectly. They're gonna they're gonna let 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.720 her through. We're planning that creedy. We know that Creedy 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.520 sort of wants to sabotage Adam, and so he'll sabotage 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.880 him by putting him out in public when maybe a 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.560 lady could assassinate him. Like all of these pieces are 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.480 do not fit together. Either the plan is chaos or 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.280 the plan is a plan, Like you can't have it 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.440 both ways. Yes, it's very joker, we're jokers. Things were 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.040 all very thought through in Dark Knight dark Knight. Oh yeah, 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.480 you get to plant a lot of bombs in advance 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:56.040 of his cattle work. Yeah. Yeah, it was almost it's 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.319 too neat, like the level of chaos that he's trying 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.520 to invoke, and then for that to be Like as 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.520 she was walking through the crowd, I was like, even 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.760 that's a little too far fetched just to let one 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.400 lady walk through the crowd in this public moment. I'm like, 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:16.760 this is a little like her, Like, get her out 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:18.959 of the way, keep away from the man. They'll die 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.160 if they get too you know, I'm thinking of myself 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.080 if I was in that society, and I would fully 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.160 be like stay away from her, Like I would be 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.240 one of the people pushing that Laura about her as well. 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:33.600 She's she's car don't go and don't sleep with her. 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.720 And then there's the other wife of a top party 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.600 member who is deeply fascinating and Jennifer, I know, I'm 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:45.320 getting obsessed with Helen Hair. She's not a good person, 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.839 but I am extremely interested. Like she's bad but also 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:54.640 she's kind of bad. Yeah, she's bad in a fun way, 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.720 and we meet her really in in book three, Jennifer, 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.920 will you describe her for maybe people who have a 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:05.600 read it. So Helen Hair is just enthusiastically sexually dominating 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:10.280 every man who comes into her proximity. Um, I think 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:12.079 the first time we see her, the first time we 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.120 see her, she's selling at her husband like always. The 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:17.880 next time we see her, her husband just like kneeling 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.120 before her um and towlding her off as she everges 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.640 from the bath, and then he tries to go down 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.840 on him and she like kicks him away. So um, 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:32.600 it's it's very interesting that in this society every man 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.760 and she goes on to half an affair with what's 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:43.240 his name, Ali Ali Creedy creating the same as Ali. No. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.760 Creedy is the head of the Finger who's the evil 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:50.200 policeman and Ali Ali and Creedy um have an alliance. 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.559 Creedy sort of wants that you said Ali Creedy, and 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:57.319 I was like, I'm so confused. Now, both Creedy and 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:02.680 Hair and want a need to use Allie's gang powers 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:08.040 and then to get the chaos power. So Helen Hair 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.800 wants to be a vita um and you know what, 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.120 it almost works out for her. She's having an affair 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.959 with Ali so she can use his brute force to 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.400 help elevate her husband to the position of High Chancellor, 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.839 and uh they end up killing each other in a 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:30.600 lover's quarrel. Oh for Helen, Uh so it doesn't happen, 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.760 and she is pretty mad at her husband for fucking 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:38.160 things out that way. I love the negotiation of price 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.559 that she has with Ali for his services, where she's like, well, 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.120 how much are you getting paid by Creedy right now? 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.760 And he was like, oh, like five hundred a week 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.000 when it's four hundred a week, And then she's like, wow, 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:50.720 I really would have thought he wouldn't pay you more 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.760 than four hundred hundred. Yeah, where where are you coming 0:11:54.840 --> 0:12:01.679 at this? Cos I want to Lady Lady Macbeth and 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:06.520 her regional theater production. Definitely I got very lady m 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.040 vibes from her, because like, how did she get her 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.120 power in this society of just being she's the only one, 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.000 the only one. She's really interesting as a woman in 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:19.240 the society. She's obviously a terrible person, but it just 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.559 feels so unlikely that any woman would have this capacity 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:28.480 to dominate people, have you, especially the ear Yeah, And 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.480 and then of course he becomes the v uses like 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:37.679 the voyeuristic thing of the cameras to uh to cause 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.320 the chaos smart doubt smarter in his perfect like puppet 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.800 master way, which seems like a sort of like a 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.520 line from like a Bob Dylan or like a folk 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:50.800 song like Oh and the Voyeurs on the CCTV. It's 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.000 like that the classic idea that like I will be 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.680 like he uses their their tools of mass surveillance against 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:03.600 them and we're all pervert seeing it. Bob Dylan. Now, Um, 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.600 what I was gonna say was her level of power 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.280 as a woman in this society where women are just 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.960 like massively disempowered kind of reminds me of Serena Joy 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:18.520 in uh, The Handmaid Sale, but like the adaptation of 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.760 The Handmaid Sale, not the book The Handmaids Tale, because 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:23.720 I feel like Serena Joy has a lot more power 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.560 in the screen adaptation versus the book, but she's still 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.599 thing about Serena Joy. She at least has to have 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.160 the effect of being like a dutiful wife that she 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.160 feels honored to have this home. In this husband to follow, 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.319 Helven Hair so clearly doesn't think have that pretense at all, 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.880 Like the first time he's see her, she's being really 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.600 shitty to her husband, and Roseberry is like, she's kind 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.400 of a mean lady, and Roseberry's husband says, fucky, he 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:55.240 is awesome, and we all like her. Her level of 0:13:55.520 --> 0:14:01.400 like sexual manipulation isn't even understated. It is so outrageously 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.440 in it's just crank. Yeah, it's crank to eleven. There's 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.800 no there's no pussy footing around about it. It's just 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:15.640 like I didn't even need to say that. I'm embarrassed. Sometimes. Also, 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.600 these comic book women are drawn in a way where 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.320 I'm like, David Lloyd, you had a day drawing those boobs, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:28.920 didn't you? Oh my god, just massive watermelons, just enormous boobs. 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.600 Oh yeah, when she's like, look what you're missing. Had 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.400 a day drawing the like cabaret ladies with their asses, 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:41.600 like out to the stages. Eighties comic book artists loved 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.520 drawing at boobs and butts. It's their favorite thing. Dana 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.280 and I wrote for she Hulk, and so we spent 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.080 a lot of time with those she Whole comics, and 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.840 my god, they are so horny for she Hulk, Like 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.480 it's just like the way their boobs with like like 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.440 grip two sure in a way that was like, oh, 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.440 there gripped like under the boob and to the side 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.120 of the boob, and it's just like a blouse in 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:08.960 a way. I look like, that's not how That's not 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:13.200 how gravity works. The clothes are like painted painted on, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.160 but only for part of it. And then there's like 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.480 a little bit of a blouse for you know, demure 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:23.240 for because if we don't do that, I was saying, 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.760 if we if we didn't see the line of the boob, 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:32.200 how would we know she has boobed adjacent to that too? 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.680 Just to touch on like how this particular you know 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:40.520 illustrator is uh portraying women every time e V screams, 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:45.240 I'm like, this is a grotesque portrayal of this woman's 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.760 face that like towards the end, I was like, this 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:51.400 is this is a different person I had that not 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.640 like she is I think like fifteen different women in 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.680 this book. At the beginning, she's like a little scared 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:08.120 Lolita esque drawing, and then she becomes a like a 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.560 like a when she's with that nice guy you know, 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:17.160 lives with him. She's like a like a seventies sitcom lady. 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.360 And then she turns and she goes and is tortured, 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.400 and she looks like a hundred and five years old 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.800 in this chapter, like I had it open to this page. 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:36.400 She looks like like a like sort of like Jennifer Gray. 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:42.680 She looks kind of like an X man. She looks 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.360 like she looks like a gargoyle off the side of 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.120 a building. That also is like the gutter that's brays water. 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:53.760 But then yes, this what's that? That's like? This is 0:16:53.800 --> 0:17:04.560 all very great for any Chloris leech Man. I'm gonna 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.119 be back real quick. I'm just gonna write a manifesto, 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:22.679 be back into gym. I did want to make one 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:28.000 more point about Helen Hair before we move on to women. No, 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.520 this is essential. Have any of you read or seen 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:37.440 the film The Wife. Yeah, it's it's a different dynamic. 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.240 It's not like a sexually dominant dynamic. But the titch 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:42.600 I'm gonna spoil the Wife, but it's not a spoiler. 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:44.399 You know it the whole thing and it's just whatever 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:48.160 the titular wife. And the Wife is a wonderful writer, 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.280 but it's like in America, and she knows that her 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.640 books will never get the attention or acclaim that they'll 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.360 get under her name as they would under her husband's name. 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.320 So she like makes the decision out, like you're gonna 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:03.919 publish my books and we're going to have this partnership 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.920 and we're both in on it and this is our relationship. Um, 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.240 And that a little bit feels like a muted version 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.639 of the Helen Hair thing of like I can't be 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.119 the face of the who's in charge, so I am 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.000 going to use you, my husband, as the man puppet 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:22.760 for me to get my agenda across. I feel like 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.720 though I don't think her husband was as in on it, 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:28.600 and I don't think it was I feel like it 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.639 was like a Rebecca type deal where she got married 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:33.439 to him and she was like, great, we're not going 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.680 to have sex. I'm gonna like withhold sex from you, 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.399 and you're gonna be in charge of the ear and 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:41.720 I'm going to make sure or was he the ear 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:45.000 or the mouth? He he was the No, he was 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.200 the eye because he had the cameras right, Oh yeah, 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.600 he liked watch the propagateda the visual thing before you're 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.840 without the seeing. But so she's like, you're gonna be 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.440 in charge of the eye because I say so, and 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:00.560 that's how I'm going to get to the top like 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.600 it was hardcore lady m energy. You don't think that 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.320 it's a consensual b D s M relationship. I think 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.959 it's pretty into it. Um like makes it clear at 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:12.399 the very end that she's going to have sex with 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:14.120 them because she's going to be in a good mood. 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.560 I do. I don't think it's kind of likes it. Yeah, 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:22.240 I don't think it. I think he gets off on it. 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:26.600 I think he likes for sure. I know. I don't. 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.680 I don't get that sense, just because of that scene 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.800 where she's with Ali, she's like the cameras are off 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.720 because they had that sort of blackout of surveillance, and 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:39.720 then she's got her like eighties tich and she's and 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.080 she's like pointing him at the camera, which she thinks 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.400 isn't recording anything, and she's like, hey, look what you're missing. 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:50.359 And then later he flies into like furious rage and 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.879 that's why he ends up killing Oh, you're right. I 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.880 think he's curious because his wife's sleeping with another. Yeah, 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:00.280 that's what I that's what I gathered from that change. 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.000 I mean, I think it's both. I gathered that he's 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:04.960 sorry when she was in the top like he was 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.240 townling her off. He clearly sees her tits on a 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.399 regular basis, right, but I don't think he gets to 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:15.000 touch them on a regular I mean I was reading it, 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:19.199 I was like, what a cook? Indeed he quite literally, 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:24.840 yeah he really is. So that's where what did you 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.399 think of the ending? We got to go back to 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:38.879 part of the north. I guess, well, that's not good sleep. 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.960 But well it's sad that he said with his wife 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:47.520 and she's sleeping with another, but they're all bad. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:49.240 he'sac to say. I got a lot of ship for 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.200 saying that the cabaret seemed like a place I would 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:53.000 want to hang out. I think we should give Jen 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.720 just a little bit more ship for feeling bad. Both 0:20:56.119 --> 0:21:04.240 equal and fascist sympathize. That's instant of his life. Seems okay, 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:09.399 But Colin Hair deeply sucks. Yes, yeah, um okay, so 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.440 with Helen Hair, I don't believe that rapists an appropriate 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:21.159 punishment for everyone and for anyone and for everyone for anyone. Um. 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.800 I really don't care for that end. And it also 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:29.000 was just such a weird tag, Like what a choice 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:32.920 to end on that, Like it's hard enough the choice 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:34.920 in it of itself is like, oh, she's going to 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.680 be raped, that's her punishment is rough. But it's like 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.119 and also, that's going to be the ending of V 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.240 for Vandetta. It's like we can all feel happy about 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:47.760 Helen Hair getting raped as opposed to like I was like, wait, 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:50.840 I turned the page, being like, that's not that can't 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.320 be the end of it though, that's the tone he 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.840 wants to end on, that the sexually manipulative woman is 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.879 going to be in a forced Island sexual submission. That 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.400 I think in my mind I had transposed the two 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.240 parts of the ending, and after I read it, I 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.359 immediately was like, oh, she had the bad thing happened. 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.520 But then we had Evie bringing that guy into the 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:16.920 shadow gallery and like she's going to be the next 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:22.720 vat that is the end of In my brain I 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:24.800 made that the end. I was like this, well that 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:27.640 would be better. That's that's a way better ending because 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:31.760 it's almost like a little optimistic and hope for the future. 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.240 And then it's like, wait, one more page, we forgot 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:37.879 to rape. Believe. Look, I also just don't believe that 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.480 Helen Hair is going to be kept down for long, 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:47.240 Like that woman seems remarkably indomitable. I am saying metaphorically right, 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:52.760 not no, she's She's obviously going to be raped terrifically, 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:56.000 and Alamor seems psyched about that, and it's a note 0:22:56.040 --> 0:23:01.680 he wanted to end on. But look, I'm not saying 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:04.800 I want a sequel. That's just Helen Hair once again 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.680 taking over society in a ruthless way. But if it existed, 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:11.679 I would read it. You know what, Jennifer, there are 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.720 more than enough stories about like awful men rising through 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:17.879 the ranks of power and how and why they do it. 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:23.200 It would be interesting to see one about it Helen 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:29.480 Hair's rest to power like Wicked. Sure, yeah, let's actually, 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:35.399 you know what, I wanted to be a musical just 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:38.800 like Vida. I wanted Madnna to play Helen Higher. I 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:41.040 literally meant the book Wicked, though, I just want to 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:45.800 make that very clear. I also think that this sort 0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:48.560 of goes into like why Alan Moore is bad at 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.560 women one because he sees them all as sexual objects 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.200 and like all of their problems are like sex based. 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:57.840 Like there's Helen Hair, who again is just like a 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:01.320 cardboard cutout of a dominatrix, then gets what she deserves 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:05.480 in his opinion, not in my opinion, um Evie with 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:08.239 her like weird daddy issues that he goes way too 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:12.600 much into. And then Rosemary, who again it's like her 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:15.920 relationships with men put her in this very like sexually 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:19.960 vulnerable position, and then she is not even a person 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:22.720 who makes decisions. She's just a pawn in the plan, 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:26.679 like every woman has some deeply weird sexual thing with her. 0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:37.040 Oh she's cool, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, VAL's on that 0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:41.280 chapter is like genuinely so sweet and nuanced, and yet 0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:44.159 we don't get that with anyone else. It is. The 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:46.920 unfortunate thing is that it's the same issue of like 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:53.800 queer people always dying in literature. Yes, and Delia also 0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:57.080 now has to be in a relationship with Finch, which 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:01.240 she didn't have to. Yeah that's oh yeah, that was 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:03.119 weird that they threw that in there. They're just like 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:06.240 and we're sleeping together, by the way, Well, I think 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:11.240