Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions ask if movies have
Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn Beast,
Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is
Speaker 2: Caitlin Durante.
Speaker 3: My name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast
Speaker 3: where we take a look at your favorite movies using
Speaker 3: an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a
Speaker 3: jumping off point. Wow, Caitlyn, what what the hell is that?
Speaker 2: It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,
Speaker 2: sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test. It has many variations.
Speaker 2: The one that we use is do two characters of
Speaker 2: a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other?
Speaker 2: And is their conversation about something other than a man?
Speaker 2: And we like it when it's a narratively relevant conversation.
Speaker 3: Which will not be a problem with our episode today,
Speaker 3: which is why it's a jumping off point for a discussion. Yes,
Speaker 3: because our podcast has been on for over eight years
Speaker 3: now and Alison Bechdel, I think is very kindly, politely
Speaker 3: ignored our existence for the better part of a decade.
Speaker 3: I do at this point sort of like, I'm like,
Speaker 3: I wonder if we hit ten years, if she'll just
Speaker 3: like pop out of the floorboards, Like I feel like
Speaker 3: she should throw us a surprise party.
Speaker 4: Is that?
Speaker 3: What do you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we've talked for a long time about
Speaker 2: having her as a guest on the likes.
Speaker 3: Her emails, so it's like she also wants nothing to
Speaker 3: do with us, but she hasn't sued us.
Speaker 2: Have we emailed her? I think we have been too scared.
Speaker 3: I think we did when the podcast started, which was
Speaker 3: un The hubris of that is just like absurd. We're
Speaker 3: just like, hey, we're two people ripping off your likeness.
Speaker 3: Will you do free labor for us? Like we've grown,
Speaker 3: we've learned. I just sort of, you know, someday, someday, I.
Speaker 2: Have no memory of this. I thought we were always
Speaker 2: too frightened.
Speaker 3: I have to go back into the archives. I feel
Speaker 3: like we were so flagrant at the beginning in our youth.
Speaker 2: Could be in any case.
Speaker 3: In any case, we are here with the do episode.
Speaker 3: We're very excited.
Speaker 2: So the movie we're covering today is Salt of This
Speaker 2: c a two thousand and eight movie written and directed
Speaker 2: by Anne Marie Jacir, and we're so excited to talk
Speaker 2: about it. And we're so excited to talk to our
Speaker 2: guest today, who is a film programmer at Brooklyn Academy
Speaker 2: of Music, the curator of Cinema Arabia. She's a former
Speaker 2: director of film programming at the Arab Film and Media Institute.
Speaker 2: It's Yesmina tweel Hi, Hello and welcome.
Speaker 4: I'm so happy and excited to be here.
Speaker 2: We're delighted to have you.
Speaker 3: We're so excited you're here.
Speaker 2: Something I didn't list in your credits, but I think
Speaker 2: is important to mention is that you also studied at
Speaker 2: Boston University and have a degree in film. It's not
Speaker 2: a master's degree in screenwriting, which is something that I
Speaker 2: would never mention having.
Speaker 4: But it's not and I put it specifically in my
Speaker 4: email to you to make sure you knew.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you did.
Speaker 3: But that does mean statistically all three of us have
Speaker 3: like someone has coughed in our mouths on the green line,
Speaker 3: and I feel like that's a beautiful bonding experience. Well,
Speaker 3: thank you so much for being here. And for bringing
Speaker 3: us this movie. If you're in the US and you
Speaker 3: have a library card, you should be able to watch
Speaker 3: this film on canopy right now. That's where I believe
Speaker 3: we watched it. But I wanted to start before we
Speaker 3: get into Salt of this Sea. I mean when you
Speaker 3: sent us, you sent us a really comprehensive list of
Speaker 3: movies that would be good for us to talk about,
Speaker 3: but so many of them were difficult to stream. So
Speaker 3: because you've been such a huge supporter and curator of
Speaker 3: Arab cinema in a country where it is just like
Speaker 3: not as easy to access Arab cinema, I want to
Speaker 3: know a little bit about your experience in this space
Speaker 3: and what you're doing right now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So for some context for listeners, I am Arab,
Speaker 4: as one would hope. I was born in the US,
Speaker 4: but my mom is from Lebanon, my dad is from Syria,
Speaker 4: and I actually didn't grow up with Arab cinema really.
Speaker 4: I know my parents had a couple of VHS tapes,
Speaker 4: but it wasn't until maybe it was in high school
Speaker 4: that I watched a couple things they had West Beiru
Speaker 4: and Caramel, which to this day or two of my
Speaker 4: absolute favorite films. But when I really started getting into
Speaker 4: it was when I started volunteering with the Arab Film
Speaker 4: and Media Institute. At the time, it was just the
Speaker 4: Arab Film Festival, and I started writing the blog for them,
Speaker 4: and I kind of got a hands on education in
Speaker 4: Arab cinema, particularly contemporary Arab cinema. It also led me
Speaker 4: down some paths of learning about the cinema industry in
Speaker 4: these different countries as well, and so I taught myself
Speaker 4: a lot just through that. I'd always been very proud
Speaker 4: of my heritage and was studying film, so it just
Speaker 4: kind of went hand in hand that I would start
Speaker 4: working in that space beyond just volunteering and writing the blog,
Speaker 4: and was very honored to be brought on as the
Speaker 4: director of Film Programming in twenty twenty one, and then
Speaker 4: it just kind of my involvement in the Arab cinema
Speaker 4: space just kind of exploded out from there.
Speaker 2: That's great, Yeah, but.
Speaker 3: It seems like you're like truly a fixture in the
Speaker 3: New York film scene at this point. I like to think, so, yeah,
Speaker 3: and we're going to declare it here right now because
Speaker 3: we definitely have that power. Yeah, I mean, going off
Speaker 3: of that. What is your history with this film in
Speaker 3: particular and this director's work.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, Anri Yasser is one of the most famous
Speaker 4: filmmakers from the region, and I had noted about her
Speaker 4: work for a while. I can't remember when I saw
Speaker 4: this film for the well, I think it wasn't that
Speaker 4: long ago, actually, but I actually saw Ann Marie's film
Speaker 4: Lajib first many years ago in Beirut, and then Salt
Speaker 4: of This Sea only more recently in the last few years.
Speaker 4: But both films made me completely fall in love with her.
Speaker 4: And she has such a way of capturing just the
Speaker 4: human experience, but the human experience that happens to be
Speaker 4: in Palestine and speaks to all the bigger sort of
Speaker 4: social and political ramifications of living under occupation in her stories.
Speaker 4: But yeah, so this film is fairly new to me,
Speaker 4: but I've been familiar with An Marie's work for many
Speaker 4: many years.
Speaker 2: Nice, yeah, Jamie, how about you.
Speaker 3: I hadn't seen this before. I had seen one of
Speaker 3: Henry Jasser's more recent shorts. It was very short. My
Speaker 3: friend Kavon put together a like streamed Palestinian Shorts presentation.
Speaker 2: I want to.
Speaker 3: Say, like around this time last year and there was
Speaker 3: a short she directed in I Have It up Here
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two called from Palestine with Love. That is
Speaker 3: it's four minutes long, but it was really really beautiful.
Speaker 3: You should check it out if you're able. But it's
Speaker 3: basically a series of cement blocks being removed to reveal
Speaker 3: this gorgeous beach and children playing on the beach. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so that was my experience with her work. I also
Speaker 3: now looking at her IMDb page, realized she's directed an
Speaker 3: episode of Romi. So I have seen whatever episode she directed,
Speaker 3: I've seen it every episode of that show.
Speaker 4: I think it's the one that takes place in Palestine,
Speaker 4: or maybe there's a couple that take place in Palestine.
Speaker 3: Let me check. Oh yes, yes, yeah, it's from also
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two Egyptian Cigarettes. Yeah, I guess I was
Speaker 3: semi familiar with her more recent work, but had not
Speaker 3: seen Salt to This Sea before. And it's so I
Speaker 3: just I really was like blown away at the sort
Speaker 3: of ease of her writing too, and how there are
Speaker 3: so many complex things. I mean, if you're not familiar
Speaker 3: with the Israeli occupation and the plight of the Palestinian people,
Speaker 3: it is a lot of information to convey, but it's
Speaker 3: conveyed through It's just so naturally conveyed. And you also
Speaker 3: kind of get this. This is like a maybe dumb
Speaker 3: thing to harp on, but I was really blown away
Speaker 3: at how how often we talk about on the show
Speaker 3: how forced love stories feel, and how natural this one felt,
Speaker 3: and how just like her writing is so effortless, where
Speaker 3: even when you don't agree with what a character is doing,
Speaker 3: you completely understand why they're doing it. And anyways, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's great. I'm excited to watch more of her work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kaitlyn, this was my first film of Amory Jasser's
Speaker 2: and I loved it. I think this is such a
Speaker 2: movie moving, beautiful film, and all my notes on like
Speaker 2: the discussion part of this episode is just gonna be
Speaker 2: me being like and then this scene which is really
Speaker 2: good and has this really amazing commentary.
Speaker 3: It's just a really good movie. I mean, it's just yeah,
Speaker 3: it's wonderful.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I did. When you were asking me for films,
Speaker 4: I was trying to think of some of the like
Speaker 4: lighter but like high quality worth talking about films, And
Speaker 4: I think this film is a great introduction for a
Speaker 4: lot of American audiences but yeah, I was real listening
Speaker 4: to old episodes before this, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: this is gonna be a hard one to rip on.
Speaker 2: Well, just because we mostly do that on most episodes.
Speaker 2: It's just because a lot of movies are horrid, yeah,
Speaker 2: and they make it easy for us to dump on them.
Speaker 2: But when the movie is really good, will be nice.
Speaker 3: It was also really interesting seeing like how well we'll
Speaker 3: talk about it, but like how collaboratively the story was built,
Speaker 3: where the star of the film is also a writer
Speaker 3: and is pulling from her own experience to build out
Speaker 3: her character. And I just I'm just excited to talk
Speaker 3: about it. I love collaboration with women.
Speaker 2: This is great. You love to see it.
Speaker 3: You just love to see it.
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back
Speaker 2: for the recap. Okay, here is the recap for Salt
Speaker 2: of This Sea. We open on images of buildings being bulldozed,
Speaker 2: people being removed from their homeland, images from the Nakba
Speaker 2: of nineteen forty eight. Then we cut to the present
Speaker 2: or the present of this film, which is, you know,
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. We meet Soya Tahani played by
Speaker 2: Suher Hamad A Brooklyn born Palestinian American woman who has
Speaker 2: just a in the occupying, genocidal state that is Israel.
Speaker 2: The Israeli officials are interrogating Soraya about why she's there,
Speaker 2: about her name, her religion, her ethnic background. They strip
Speaker 2: search her body, they rifle through her luggage, you know,
Speaker 2: just put her through this all around degrading experience, and
Speaker 2: finally she's released and allowed to go. Onward, we learn
Speaker 2: that her grandfather was born in the Palestinian city of
Speaker 2: Yafa before he was forcibly removed during the Nakpa and
Speaker 2: displaced to Lebanon, where both of Soria's parents were born.
Speaker 2: Her father recently passed away, which seems to be what
Speaker 2: has inspired her to take this trip. She travels to
Speaker 2: the city of Ramala in the occupied West Bank, where
Speaker 2: she links up with her friend Karn, who I think
Speaker 2: is in like one or two scenes, and then she's
Speaker 2: I know, I kept being.
Speaker 3: Like, Where's Where's Coronette, But then I kind of forgot
Speaker 3: after a while because I just got into the other characters.
Speaker 2: For because she goes to this restaurant. Sarah goes to
Speaker 2: a restaurant with Karin with other people who are like
Speaker 2: rude and entitled to the wait staff, and I was
Speaker 2: just like, if this, if this is who Karen's hanging
Speaker 2: out with, I don't really I don't really care much
Speaker 2: for her. And speaking of the there's a waiter at
Speaker 2: this restaurant and we're like, hmm, I wonder if he's
Speaker 2: gonna come up again later. He's too handsome not to
Speaker 2: show back up.
Speaker 4: Young Salah Bakri.
Speaker 3: Ugh, right, this is like one of his breakout roles, right.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, that was something that I was so delighted
Speaker 4: the first time I saw it. I was like, look
Speaker 4: at this little baby Salah Bakri. So like, sorry to
Speaker 4: interrupt you, Caitlin, but no, please her listeners. Slav Backriy
Speaker 4: is like a prolific Palestinian actor. You like, actually may
Speaker 4: have seen him in some American works, nothing like super
Speaker 4: notable on the American Well, actually, I take that back.
Speaker 4: The film that got the most famous in the West
Speaker 4: was The Band's Visit. He was in that, Oh okay,
Speaker 4: But he's been in some smaller indie films from Europe
Speaker 4: and the US and then in like every other Arab film.
Speaker 4: He's a fantastic actor. He's an absolute sweetheart and he
Speaker 4: is so hot. At every age too. And his father
Speaker 4: is really hot and a great actor and a great
Speaker 4: director as well. But they have beautiful genes in the
Speaker 4: Bakery family. Oh and his brother too, Adam's an actor too.
Speaker 3: So he's from like a Palestinian film family. Yes, yeah, cool,
Speaker 3: I was, Yeah, Caitlin, I had the same thought as
Speaker 3: you when he came in frame. I was like, if
Speaker 3: that man doesn't come back, we've made a big mistake.
Speaker 3: Because whatever movie language is so impressive in so many ways.
Speaker 3: But sometimes when you see someone's that hot, you're like, Okay,
Speaker 3: so I'm going to see this person again. Someone hot
Speaker 3: and they have a little twinkle in their eye, see
Speaker 3: you soon.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, he's so good at the twinkle, the little look.
Speaker 2: Uh truly Okay, so we perceive him, as does soria
Speaker 2: Then Soriah goes to a branch of the British Palestine
Speaker 2: Bank where her grandfather had an account with three hundred
Speaker 2: and fifteen Palestinian pounds in nineteen forty eight money we
Speaker 2: will learn this is the equivalent of around fifteen thousand
Speaker 2: US dollars.
Speaker 3: And sixteen cents. I believe in.
Speaker 2: Sixteen cent Yes, it is like fifteen thousand, five hundred
Speaker 2: something something in sixteen cents, this exact amount will become
Speaker 2: you'll understand why it's so important and a little bit.
Speaker 2: But she tries to, you know, withdraw this money from
Speaker 2: this account, but it turns out she can't access the
Speaker 2: account because it's no longer considered to be valid since
Speaker 2: it's from before nineteen forty eight. And she's like, okay,
Speaker 2: that's bullshit. This bank still exists, so it's responsible for
Speaker 2: this money that is rightfully mine, and the bank is
Speaker 2: just kind of like, shrug, I don't know, come back
Speaker 2: later and talk to our regional manager. So Soriah goes
Speaker 2: and rents an apartment in Ramala. She returns to the
Speaker 2: bank and speaks to the white British regional manager, who
Speaker 2: basically says the same thing, that the account is invalid
Speaker 2: because the Israeli Control Board had claimed that her father
Speaker 2: was not a refugee, even though he was, but they
Speaker 2: deemed the whole situation such that the account was invalid
Speaker 2: and he couldn't access the money. And the bank manager's
Speaker 2: very condescending and shitty about this whole thing. So Soriah
Speaker 2: leaves and runs into that waiter from the restaurant. This
Speaker 2: is a man named Ahmad played by Sala Bakri. She
Speaker 2: just like gets in his car. She's like, can I
Speaker 2: go with you wherever you're going?
Speaker 3: Well, because she's kind of being like cat called and
Speaker 3: I think is like a little bit uncomfortable. And then Yeah,
Speaker 3: gets in a hot man's car nearby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's like, no big deal, I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: go pick up my nephew. Come along, And then she
Speaker 2: goes to his home and meets his family. They drive
Speaker 2: around a little bit. He kind of like takes her
Speaker 2: around so that she can explore her country. She tells
Speaker 2: him about her grandfather's life in Yaffa pri Nakpa. He
Speaker 2: tells her that he received a scholarship to study at
Speaker 2: a university in Canada and he's just waiting on his
Speaker 2: visa and he's like, oh, I can't wait to never
Speaker 2: see another soldier again, referring to the IDF who on
Speaker 2: their way back stops and antagonizes them. So we see
Speaker 2: these soldiers making him strip down in the middle of
Speaker 2: the street. More degrading experiences for them. Then Sayah applies
Speaker 2: for a Palestinian passport. She's currently there on a two
Speaker 2: week visa and is trying to be able to stay longer,
Speaker 2: but she is denied a passport because of you know,
Speaker 2: restrictive red tape that is real and forces.
Speaker 3: I have a quick question just to make sure I
Speaker 3: was like understanding what was happening at the beginning correctly.
Speaker 3: When she was going to Palestine. At the very beginning,
Speaker 3: they determined that she could only be there for two
Speaker 3: weeks upon her arrival or did she know that already?
Speaker 3: That was something I wasn't totally clear on.
Speaker 2: I don't think the movie makes it especially clear. Maybe
Speaker 2: if there's like contexts that you already have.
Speaker 4: She has a visa, right because they asked to see
Speaker 4: the so it must have. I would imagine it said
Speaker 4: two weeks.
Speaker 3: That she yeah, and that she was going to try
Speaker 3: to get it expanded. Yeah, okay, I just wanted to
Speaker 3: make sure I didn't miss something because I watched it
Speaker 3: twice and I was like, is it a surprise that
Speaker 3: it's two weeks? Anyways?
Speaker 2: International travel is just confusing.
Speaker 3: It's just an absurdly short amount of time as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, visas are are crazy, and sometimes you forget
Speaker 4: when you're having an American passport.
Speaker 2: I take it for granted, so hard totally.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't remember. Sorry, this is an aside. I
Speaker 4: literally just watched this today and I can't remember. Does
Speaker 4: she meet with a lawyer to talk about the visa?
Speaker 2: I'm not exactly sure who she's speaking to. She's in
Speaker 2: some sort of official office with a woman. No, it's
Speaker 2: a man, Okay, with a man.
Speaker 4: Sorry, I'm just I'm thinking about somebody's cameo and I'm like,
Speaker 4: is this the movie or never mind?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think maybe she goes to like in office
Speaker 2: of the Palestinian Authority or something, because that's where.
Speaker 3: She gets advised by somebody. But yeah, I also wasn't
Speaker 3: clear who exactly like she was seeking out.
Speaker 4: I'm like scrubbing through the film right now.
Speaker 2: But anyway, So soria and Emma talk about living in
Speaker 2: Palestine versus leaving. They talk about how to deal with
Speaker 2: the Israeli occupying forces. They kind of butt heads about it.
Speaker 2: We can talk about like the more specifics of their
Speaker 2: conversation later if we want, but they're like not super
Speaker 2: in agreement on like how to deal with the occupation.
Speaker 2: Then Soriah tells Amud and his friend Marwin, who is
Speaker 2: an aspiring filmmaker, I.
Speaker 3: Love my favorite character, My favorite character. I love him.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm down, I'm down for anything. Let's go.
Speaker 3: We're gonna rob a bank. Let's go.
Speaker 2: Oh you want to do a bank heist? I'm in.
Speaker 3: Yes, he is my favorite character.
Speaker 2: I liked him until he decides to stay. Does he
Speaker 2: decide to stay with that Israeli woman?
Speaker 3: Yes, that is where he does lose.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Early scenes with him, though, I just appreciated. I just
Speaker 3: love a character who is very passionate about anything and
Speaker 3: also is constantly kind of cock blocking the main couple
Speaker 3: of the business, which is his role for the first
Speaker 3: like two thirds of the movie. And then yes, when
Speaker 3: the Israeli women becomes involved, you're like, oh, you really
Speaker 3: had me in the first half. But yeah, he's a treat.
Speaker 2: He is third wheeling them a bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean many such cases. I've done that so
Speaker 3: many times, where you're just like, these people want to
Speaker 3: fuck Well, I'm here, too bad, I'm here, So what
Speaker 3: are we gonna do?
Speaker 4: You're my only friend?
Speaker 3: Yes, well I also robbed the bank, so you have
Speaker 3: to talk to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. They had to find some way to get rid
Speaker 4: of him. Story. I guess that was the best way
Speaker 4: to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, anyway, So we meet him, and so Riah
Speaker 2: tells Emmud and Marwin that she wants to basically rob
Speaker 2: the bank, the one that's supposed to have her grandfather's money,
Speaker 2: though it's not really a robbery because she would just
Speaker 2: be reclaiming the money that belongs to her and her family.
Speaker 2: Marwin is in, He's like sure.
Speaker 3: He doesn't have a single question. He's like, this is
Speaker 3: going to be great tape. Let's go.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He's like, I'll get some good b roll out of this.
Speaker 2: So he's in, but Emmud is out. He's like, I
Speaker 2: got my future to think about. I'm going to university
Speaker 2: in Canada. I can't be robbing banks. But then Emmod
Speaker 2: and Soriyah lose their restaurant jobs because they like protest
Speaker 2: to their boss who is not paying them. And Emmod
Speaker 2: is particularly upset because he reveals that his visa to
Speaker 2: go to Canada was denied, and Sarah's like, well, you know,
Speaker 2: it's okay, we can apply for another visa. But it
Speaker 2: turns out this is the fourth time he's been refused
Speaker 2: and probably indefinitely anytime he tries that would be the case.
Speaker 2: So he agrees now to participate in this heist as
Speaker 2: long as they do it Soria's way with guns, but
Speaker 2: no bullets because they don't want to hurt anybody. So
Speaker 2: they make preparations and then Soria Ahmad and Marwin go
Speaker 2: through with this you know, quote unquote bank robbery aka
Speaker 2: soriah taking back what's rightfully hers that like fifteen thousand,
Speaker 2: five hundred seventy two dollars and sixteen cents.
Speaker 3: Plus interest, which is such a great Oh, I just
Speaker 3: love that one.
Speaker 2: Was so much great tag to the scene, yesh the
Speaker 2: equivalent of like what three hundred and fifteen Palestinian pounds
Speaker 2: would be in two thousand and eight American money, So
Speaker 2: that's what she takes. They escape, and they cross into
Speaker 2: the occupying state of Israel disguised as Jewish people with
Speaker 2: yamakas and stars of David and like pro America propaganda T.
Speaker 3: Shirts, the T shirt, the T shirt, the whole.
Speaker 4: Sort of hiding their identity thing with like Silas wearing
Speaker 4: a Yamaica with Israeli an American flags on it, and yeah,
Speaker 4: I forget what his T shirt says, but like clearly
Speaker 4: they went to some like weird tourists.
Speaker 3: It's very like peer peer T shirt, but I have
Speaker 3: it written down somewhere, but yeah, it's like indicating like
Speaker 3: we've got you Israel love Oh America, don't worry, Israel's
Speaker 3: behind you. And there's a picture of like a fighter
Speaker 3: plane on it. It's just so fucking scary.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And they have the star of David in the
Speaker 4: car and.
Speaker 3: Right as like an air freshener. Something I really appreciated
Speaker 3: about this movie is that in terms of like indicting
Speaker 3: American culture specifically, but just Western culture in general, it
Speaker 3: equally which we're about to get to, but like equally
Speaker 3: is not afraid to indict Western liberalism as well. In
Speaker 3: I think my favorite most infuriating moment of the movie,
Speaker 3: which we'll get to in a second, but the T
Speaker 3: shirt was very funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah for sure.
Speaker 3: And it works too because IDF soldiers are dumb as rocks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, looks good to me, come on through.
Speaker 3: That's the sentence I agree with.
Speaker 2: And so these characters go to I believe, Jerusalem, and
Speaker 2: they're able to move about more freely because they are
Speaker 2: not in occupied land and they are being perceived as Jewish,
Speaker 2: so no one's really giving them trouble.
Speaker 3: But still not completely safely too, which is I think
Speaker 3: another thing that's donned super well is like even when
Speaker 3: they are quote unquote in the clear, they're never quite
Speaker 3: in the clear.
Speaker 2: They're still alluming threat over them for sure. Yeah. They
Speaker 2: head to the coast, they swim and frolic in the sea.
Speaker 2: Then they go to Yafa, to the home where Soria's
Speaker 2: grandfather lived before he was forcibly removed during the Nakba.
Speaker 2: A young Israeli woman she lives in this house now.
Speaker 2: She invites them in and lets them stay for a while,
Speaker 2: and she's friendly quote unquote, and she has mugs that
Speaker 2: say things like end the occupation, and she's talking to
Speaker 2: them and saying things like, yeah, I hate all this violence.
Speaker 2: We all just want peace, right.
Speaker 4: Oh my god? Uh liberal zionis exactly.
Speaker 2: So as time goes on, and like soriah asks her
Speaker 2: what she did with her grandfather's furniture, and she wants
Speaker 2: this woman to admit that her family stole this house
Speaker 2: from Soria's family, but this woman refuses, and she calls
Speaker 2: the cops on them, so Soria and Ammad leave.
Speaker 3: Like this scene is so infuriating, but it's so good.
Speaker 3: It's so good and just stripping back this character that
Speaker 3: you're like, I guess if you if you have no
Speaker 3: like knowledge of what the dynamics between these characters could be,
Speaker 3: you could be lured into this false sense of security.
Speaker 3: But the second it and because I feel like that's
Speaker 3: like a very liberal Zionis and just liberal thing to
Speaker 3: do in general, is like, oh yes I have quote
Speaker 3: unquote the right opinion. But the second it threatens me personally,
Speaker 3: fuck you, I'm out, this is mine and I'm calling
Speaker 3: the cops on you. Like It's just done so quickly
Speaker 3: and so effectively. And yeah, yeah, why did my favorite
Speaker 3: characters stay back with her?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, they're like flirting a little bit
Speaker 2: and they seem to be connecting, but it's just like Marwin,
Speaker 2: come on, like, what are you doing? She's she's no good.
Speaker 3: My head canon as he went undercover and he was
Speaker 3: gonna bust the whole family, He's gonna bust the case
Speaker 3: wide open.
Speaker 2: And get back the house for Soriat. That would be nice.
Speaker 3: I have no proof. I just want to believe the
Speaker 3: best in him. But yeah, he kind of disappears after this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Emmad wants to go to, oh, I forget
Speaker 2: how to pronounce this city's name.
Speaker 4: I think it's Joweima. There's actually I don't know if
Speaker 4: you remember the bit with the storekeeper. Yeah, she's trying
Speaker 4: to change her pronounce they're trying to find it, so
Speaker 4: she's trying to change her pronunciation because I think he's
Speaker 4: an Israeli shopkeeper. So she's like, maybe pronounce it differently,
Speaker 4: but she makes it like a yo mama joke.
Speaker 3: Yes, which is like, oh, right, this movie came out
Speaker 3: in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 4: Right, jo mama, Yeah, I think she says at one point, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: Dowema or Dewaima. Yeah.
Speaker 3: But like the point is that the name of the
Speaker 3: city has been changed by Israel, and that's why he
Speaker 3: doesn't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yes, this city is where Ahmad's family is originally from,
Speaker 2: soh that's why he wants to go there, and he
Speaker 2: and Soria travel there once they figure out where it
Speaker 2: is and what it's called. Now they arrive, the buildings
Speaker 2: have been abandoned, if not destroyed. They find an abandoned
Speaker 2: house to stay in. They smooch a little bit, then
Speaker 2: they head to a nearby town to buy a mattress
Speaker 2: and some other like homey touches. But a cop or
Speaker 2: soldier or some occupier starts to hassle Ahmad when he's outside,
Speaker 2: so Sarah comes up to him and like saves him
Speaker 2: in Spanish, which makes the cop assume that they're tourists,
Speaker 2: so he lets them go, but Amad is like, don't
Speaker 2: do that again, Like we could both end up in
Speaker 2: jail because her visa is now expired and he has
Speaker 2: no documentation that allows him to be there at all.
Speaker 2: So they go back to the abandoned house where they've
Speaker 2: kind of made camp. They stay there they discuss possible
Speaker 2: futures of theirs, but the next morning, an Israeli teacher
Speaker 2: who's like on a field trip with his students finds them.
Speaker 2: He spews a bunch of you know, Zionist propaganda and
Speaker 2: says that they can't camp there because it's a national park,
Speaker 2: so they have to leave again. And then there's a
Speaker 2: moment when Ahmad is alone and two cops approach him.
Speaker 2: Sarah tries to save him again, saying, oh, I know him.
Speaker 2: He works at the kibbutz where I stay, but the
Speaker 2: cops continue to harass Ahmad and the situation escalates, and
Speaker 2: then he and Sarah are both arrested but like also separated,
Speaker 2: and Soria is taken to the airport to be deported
Speaker 2: back to the US, and the movie ends much the
Speaker 2: same way that it started, with Soria being interrogated at
Speaker 2: the airport by occupiers. They ask where she's from. She says,
Speaker 2: I'm from here. I'm from Palestine and I've been here
Speaker 2: all my life. That passport you're holding in your hands,
Speaker 2: you think it might be an American passport, but it's
Speaker 2: actually a Palestinian passport, And this is my home and
Speaker 2: you stole it. Is basically this sentiment, and that's how
Speaker 2: the movie ends. So let's take a quick break and
Speaker 2: we'll come back to discuss.
Speaker 3: And we're back. We're back where to begin. As upsetting
Speaker 3: as it is, I think, just like even just like
Speaker 3: in a filmmaking sense, the rug pull at the end
Speaker 3: of this movie is so devastating and so effective, because again,
Speaker 3: it's just like, it's so hard to build a love
Speaker 3: story that is genuinely of people, people who are so
Speaker 3: different that you're really really rooting for, and seeing this
Speaker 3: political violence and occupations separate them in a way that
Speaker 3: logistically you're like, of course that happened, but it's so devastating.
Speaker 3: It's just like I just the ending really got me.
Speaker 3: And I wish I saw this movie when it came
Speaker 3: out when I was in high school, because I feel
Speaker 3: like this is like an ideal movie to show to
Speaker 3: younger people, to demonstrate the consequences and yeah, where where
Speaker 3: do we start?
Speaker 4: Well, I'll say kind of to that point. Yeah, one
Speaker 4: of the reasons I picked this movie a I think
Speaker 4: it's incredible. I really love it, but I do I
Speaker 4: think I mentioned it earlier. I think it's a really
Speaker 4: good endpoint for American audiences without being one of these
Speaker 4: Arab films made for American audiences. I think it's made
Speaker 4: for everyone. And I say specifically American in part because
Speaker 4: the character of Soraya is like from New York City,
Speaker 4: are from Brooklyn, I've ever heard of it, But yeah,
Speaker 4: it tells a story in this way that is perfect
Speaker 4: for young audiences, for people, I mean, I hope kind
Speaker 4: of at this point this is not really new to people,
Speaker 4: but for people who are learning or unlearning something, I
Speaker 4: think this is a really great way to start through film.
Speaker 4: And I actually screened this in Brooklyn last year, and
Speaker 4: I did receive that as feedback. I had a friend
Speaker 4: who brought someone he was seeing at the time who
Speaker 4: was kind of a American liberal Zionist type person, the
Speaker 4: kind of person who's like, oh, yeah, the fighting should end,
Speaker 4: everyone should live in peace, and didn't understand there's more happening.
Speaker 4: It's bigger and worse and more complicated than that. And
Speaker 4: apparently he left with like a lot of new insight
Speaker 4: and empathy for the Palestinian people.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I just wanted to shout out the director
Speaker 2: of bit More, Anne Marie Jasser, because this movie is
Speaker 2: the first feature film directed by a Palestinian woman.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry that that happened in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 3: but amazing that it happened. Yes, I was curious. This
Speaker 3: also was And honestly I don't pay close enough attention
Speaker 3: to the Oscars, but I know that every country gets
Speaker 3: to submit one film to be considered for Best International
Speaker 3: Film at the Oscars, and this was Palestine' submission to
Speaker 3: that year's Oscar Awards for the Academy Award for Best
Speaker 3: Foreign Language Film. So I wanted to just triple check
Speaker 3: sort of what films were nominated that year because this
Speaker 3: film was submitted but not ultimately nominated, right, and so
Speaker 3: this would have been for the eighty first Academy Awards,
Speaker 3: so for the year two thousand and eight. And while
Speaker 3: it was not ultimately nominated, an Israeli movie was, and
Speaker 3: that is I think it's just worth calling out a
Speaker 3: very common occurrence in the Academy Awards. Israeli movies are
Speaker 3: very very very often nominated for Best International Film, which
Speaker 3: given liberal or not liberal US politics, shouldn't be surprising,
Speaker 3: but is worth mentioning.
Speaker 2: Well, the other thing about the director is that she
Speaker 2: has so much award and festival recognition for her films,
Speaker 2: but because she's a Palestinian woman who directs movies about
Speaker 2: Arab people, she's like not a big name in Hollywood,
Speaker 2: so she doesn't get the recognition she deserves in this
Speaker 2: film industry here in the US. But if you look
Speaker 2: at her list of accolades and awards and festival recognition,
Speaker 2: it's like so much stuff. It's just not like a
Speaker 2: mayor like Hollywood.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is really common with Arab filmmakers or car
Speaker 4: the board. The Palestine is a particularly strong filmmaking country
Speaker 4: and some of arguably the best filmmakers in the region
Speaker 4: come from there, not just Addmiry Jasser, but like Ilia
Speaker 4: Suliman and Hani Abu Asad, like speaking of like the oscars.
Speaker 4: Ilia Suliman was the first had the first Palestinian film
Speaker 4: ever submitted, which was not until two thousand and two,
Speaker 4: and Hanyabusad had the first nominated Palestinian film. But yeah,
Speaker 4: none of the three of them are highly recognized in
Speaker 4: the Western world. And sorry, this is something that frustrates
Speaker 4: me so much every day and as a reason I
Speaker 4: started the Cinema Arabias screening series I do at Nighthawk Cinema.
Speaker 4: I get so frustrated because so many cinephiles, movie lovers
Speaker 4: and people in the film industry have never seen an
Speaker 4: Arab film and don't know who any of the big
Speaker 4: names are. Like Elia Suliman should be like an autur
Speaker 4: that you know, you know what I mean, Like that
Speaker 4: is like at every and his films have been at
Speaker 4: all the big European film festivals and whatnot, and he
Speaker 4: has the energy of like an Ocher French filmmaker, but
Speaker 4: people don't know his name and it drives me nuts.
Speaker 4: I know exactly why this is the case, Just centuries
Speaker 4: of vilification in the media and uh, you know, anti
Speaker 4: Arab racism and stuff like that. But but yeah, getting
Speaker 4: back to Anne Marie, she deserves well do we want
Speaker 4: the approval of the Academy? Do we really care?
Speaker 3: But well, yeah, sure she did.
Speaker 4: There's all the accolades regardless, Yes.
Speaker 3: Any trophy. Yeah, you're just like the award body that
Speaker 3: rewarded Green Book, you know who knows.
Speaker 2: Very good point.
Speaker 4: The Academy awards too, don't leave a lot of space
Speaker 4: for international cinema in general. I don't know if people
Speaker 4: know this. People don't have a lot of understanding of
Speaker 4: how the film industry works in general, starting with the
Speaker 4: fact that you have to submit your film to the Oscars.
Speaker 4: It's not just every film ever that gets is in
Speaker 4: the running.
Speaker 3: And there's like particularly like screening, very like sort of
Speaker 3: ridiculous screening rules where it has to run in a
Speaker 3: certain place for a certain amount of time.
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I think it needs in New York or maybe
Speaker 4: it's just an American run or a New York in
Speaker 4: an LA run, but it needs a proper theatrical run.
Speaker 4: It can't be a film festival, it can't be a
Speaker 4: one off screening and That's why sometimes you'll see a
Speaker 4: film that will just like randomly be at like a
Speaker 4: weird theater for a week in the fall, just to qualify. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but a lot of international films don't get that opportunity
Speaker 4: because they don't have distributors in the US. And then
Speaker 4: on top of that, they're more likely to be picked
Speaker 4: up by little indie distributors that don't have the money
Speaker 4: to submitting to the OSCAR is past so much money,
Speaker 4: plus you have to run a campaign on top of that,
Speaker 4: and then yeah, it's like the one that in what's
Speaker 4: now called Best International Feature Film category is really the
Speaker 4: one place and every country gets to submit one. Yeah, right,
Speaker 4: I don't know, I am. I think the Academy Awards
Speaker 4: should just accept that they're like an American award body
Speaker 4: and lean into it. But hand you over.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I think you're totally right where it
Speaker 3: just feels like if folks were truly that surprised when
Speaker 3: a non American or English movie one Best Feature five
Speaker 3: years ago, then you're not a global film festival, like
Speaker 3: be honest with yourselves, you know. Yeah, I was happy
Speaker 3: to see and it makes me want to see more
Speaker 3: of anry Jascer's movies that this seems to be the
Speaker 3: beginning of a very fruitful collaborative relationship with her and
Speaker 3: Salah Bakri. I guess he's in all of her features,
Speaker 3: all three of them, so they're besties. I just love
Speaker 3: when someone's like, and here's my guy. Yeah, he's her
Speaker 3: DiCaprio and she.
Speaker 4: Includes his father in the film. Waship that the two
Speaker 4: of them play a father son duo in the film.
Speaker 2: Very nice. Yeah, that rocks. Also. I didn't make this
Speaker 2: connection un till just now, but I recently saw the
Speaker 2: film Omar, another Palestini movie from twenty thirteen. The titular
Speaker 2: character Omar is played by Adam Bakri.
Speaker 3: Oh his brother.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's his brother, who.
Speaker 2: Is also so hot, like ridiculously handsome. I know we
Speaker 2: were just talking about that, but I didn't put the
Speaker 2: two and two together that that's him. So now I
Speaker 2: know all the dots are connected. Very handsome family. We
Speaker 2: love a hot.
Speaker 4: Family, very handsome, very talented family. Yeah. I know their
Speaker 4: father directed some films.
Speaker 3: I was seeing that too.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I don't know if Adam has directed anything,
Speaker 4: but anyway, very talented family.
Speaker 2: I also want to shout out the actor who plays
Speaker 2: Soraya yes Suhara Hamad, who, much like her character, her
Speaker 2: parents are Palestinian refugees. She was born in Jordan and
Speaker 2: then her family relocated to Brooklyn when she was five,
Speaker 2: I believe, and then later Staten Island. She's a poet
Speaker 2: and author, a political activist. She obviously acted in this movie,
Speaker 2: but she's not necessarily like an actor by trade, although
Speaker 2: you wouldn't know because she gives such a great performance
Speaker 2: in this movie. But this is kind of one of
Speaker 2: the only film roles she's done where she's like in
Speaker 2: a fiction film playing a character kind of thing. She's
Speaker 2: done like narration for other things.
Speaker 3: But she's also won a ton of awards for like
Speaker 3: her writing. Yeah, exactly, yes, Jack all trades, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, all of the performances in this movie are
Speaker 3: are so good, which is wonderful because you know, the
Speaker 3: movie doesn't work without them. But the I think, especially
Speaker 3: like the chemistry between the two main characters is so well.
Speaker 3: I guess I'm curious what people thought of that, because
Speaker 3: I'm always sort of blown away when I'm very pulled
Speaker 3: into a story. But I like this relationship so much
Speaker 3: because you're pulled into their friendship connection first, and it's
Speaker 3: so clear that they understand each other as people, and
Speaker 3: the moment that they're meeting is so important that it
Speaker 3: just makes sense that it grows into this romance because
Speaker 3: they're both so beautiful. So you're like, well, at some
Speaker 3: point you should kiss.
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, the two hot people have to have to kiss.
Speaker 4: That's just the rules.
Speaker 3: And this movie is not afraid to make the hot
Speaker 3: people kiss, and I appreciate that, but I just really,
Speaker 3: I mean, there are so many there's a number of
Speaker 3: conversations between them before they get together that just I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm yeah, I'm curious what you both felt about it,
Speaker 3: but how they are both to some extent representative of
Speaker 3: very different Palestinian experiences. You know, where Soriah wants nothing
Speaker 3: more than to stay and she can't, and Mahmad wants
Speaker 3: nothing more than to leave and he can't. And they
Speaker 3: both love Palestine and that is not that is a
Speaker 3: core thing that they agree on, but their experiences of
Speaker 3: Palestine are so different. And it's a really beautiful friendship
Speaker 3: to watch develop first, which is why when it turns
Speaker 3: into a romance and even when she's like, should I
Speaker 3: have a baby? I'm like, yeah, you probably should like
Speaker 3: those more of these people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they definitely could have gone down the route of
Speaker 4: like because they become friends and such like a sudden
Speaker 4: way where like they see each other and then she
Speaker 4: like sees him in his car and she just like
Speaker 4: gets in and it's like she's like.
Speaker 2: You're my friend now, by the way, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: You know, a worse film would have been like I
Speaker 4: get into your car and we're in love now, right,
Speaker 4: But they really she gives them some time to flesh
Speaker 4: out their connection and yeah, their friendship. Like you said,
Speaker 4: I think it's a great film about the representation of
Speaker 4: the diaspora experience, and that's a whole complicated thing, like
Speaker 4: this longing for home, but you come from a situation
Speaker 4: of privilege compared to the people back home, and then
Speaker 4: especially for Palestinians who are pretty effectively stuck, it's I
Speaker 4: don't really have much to say about it. It's a
Speaker 4: situation that I am familiar with, but my situation is
Speaker 4: much different than the Palestinian situation. I do have the
Speaker 4: ability to go back to some degree, but there's always
Speaker 4: this push and pull, and I see it a lot,
Speaker 4: especially whenever things get bad in places like Paulus Signer
Speaker 4: or Lebanon. It creates a tension between the two people.
Speaker 4: So it's nice to see it enacted on screen like that,
Speaker 4: And I think it's an important conversation to have. Usually
Speaker 4: you see one or the other, what to see it together?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what Really the scene that really struck me is
Speaker 2: when they were discussing how she wants to be there
Speaker 2: because this is her home and this is where her
Speaker 2: family's from, and she feels this connection to this place
Speaker 2: even though she hasn't spent time here prior to this.
Speaker 2: She grew up in the US, but you know she's
Speaker 2: drawn to this place because this is where her roots are. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: Emma is like, you know, he's disillusioned with living in
Speaker 2: this occupied place, under this occupation. And the conversation they
Speaker 2: have where he's like, don't tell them the truth about
Speaker 2: why you're here, Like you should have lied and said
Speaker 2: that you're visiting Jewish friends, because you know, telling the
Speaker 2: truth makes their job easier in their job being like
Speaker 2: oppressing Palestinians. And she says, well, why should I lie?
Speaker 2: Like all we have is the truth, All we have
Speaker 2: is our truth, and he's like, you know, the truth
Speaker 2: never helped anyone here, Like, look around, they've won.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he basically is like grow up.
Speaker 2: Like open your eyes, look around you. But like I
Speaker 2: see where both of them are coming from. You know,
Speaker 2: the way the scene just plays out is in their
Speaker 2: emotions and all of that is just really impressive and moving.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really appree. Again, just like I feel like
Speaker 3: her writing is so specific and the performance is just elevated.
Speaker 3: But how we fully understand how all three of the
Speaker 3: main characters really feel. I love that they're all so
Speaker 3: strongly motivated to rob a bank for three very different reasons,
Speaker 3: and like that is so hard. You don't get that
Speaker 3: in Oceans eleven. You just don't. Some people are like, well,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I guess I'll do it, But like
Speaker 3: we know why they're there. They're all doing a common
Speaker 3: goal for a particular reason, and no one is presented
Speaker 3: as like they're doing it for the wrong reason. This
Speaker 3: character is doing it for the right reason. We're just
Speaker 3: given the context of why, and they all like and
Speaker 3: respect each other and work together even when they think
Speaker 3: what the other person is doing is reckless or stupid.
Speaker 3: I feel like all three characters, but particularly in mod
Speaker 3: and Soriya both have moments where I mean, with I
Speaker 3: mod it's at the restaurant with Soya, it's at her
Speaker 3: grandfather's house where they cannot contain their emotion anymore because
Speaker 3: it's just it's too much, it's too upsetting, and I
Speaker 3: feel like, again, a lesser movie would have the other
Speaker 3: characters be angry with them, but there's just like such
Speaker 3: a fundamental understanding, even though they're under standings and experiences
Speaker 3: in Palestine are quite different, like Emma doesn't need to
Speaker 3: ask why were you so mad back there?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: And even with I mean the limited exposure we get
Speaker 3: to Israeli characters and certainly didn't need to have more
Speaker 3: than we had. But I did appreciate again that the
Speaker 3: writing took care to show a gradient of villainy and
Speaker 3: not even like less so, but like different types of prejudice,
Speaker 3: because I do feel like just in movies in general,
Speaker 3: like liberal prejudice is not shown very often, or like
Speaker 3: not shown well because it's like if you see it,
Speaker 3: you see it in like a right wing movie, and
Speaker 3: at that point you're like, well, what, you know, why
Speaker 3: am I engaging with this at all? But I love
Speaker 3: her writing so much because all of it is just
Speaker 3: so organic.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the showing the liberal Zionis, I think is
Speaker 4: so it's so important. I won't mince words. Those people
Speaker 4: drive me nuts. It's the kind of people who, yeah,
Speaker 4: want there to peace, but don't understand what causes the war,
Speaker 4: the violence, attention anyway, they don't recognize their own privilege
Speaker 4: in society. Kind of people who condemn Netanyaho without investigating
Speaker 4: anything further, and they're really not part of me is
Speaker 4: trying to like hold back because I don't know any publics. Yeah,
Speaker 4: they're like not they're not helpful to the cause. And
Speaker 4: that the same goes for like the American liberals in general.
Speaker 4: But if we're speaking specifically on the the liberation of Palestine,
Speaker 4: like holding hands is not what's gonna what's going to
Speaker 4: free those people? Is that what's going to free any
Speaker 4: of us?
Speaker 2: And the way this character is handled in this like
Speaker 2: kind of just larger situation as far as liberal Zionism goes,
Speaker 2: which like kind of represented by this one character, this
Speaker 2: Israeli woman who lives in the home that belongs to
Speaker 2: Soriah and her family, where like when they first go in,
Speaker 2: oh she's friendly, Oh come on, in stay as long
Speaker 2: as you'd like. Oh, what a horrible situation. This is
Speaker 2: all this violence. Everyone just wants peace, right except for
Speaker 2: our leaders. And then she says something like, oh, your
Speaker 2: grandfather left in nineteen forty eight. That's so sad. I
Speaker 2: wish he had stayed. And it's like you're saying that
Speaker 2: as you're living in the house that your family stole
Speaker 2: from him, So you don't wish that he's stayed. You
Speaker 2: feel entitled to this stolen house. And then this like
Speaker 2: fake allyship and this whole facade of being nice and
Speaker 2: friendly starts to unravel when Soriah very rightfully says like,
Speaker 2: this is my home. It's actually for me to decide
Speaker 2: if you get to stay here. And I say that
Speaker 2: you can, but you need to acknowledge that this is
Speaker 2: a stolen house. This is my house and you stole it,
Speaker 2: and this woman cannot do it. And she just says
Speaker 2: nine to one one and she calls the cops instead.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, which is like such a widely applicable message too,
Speaker 3: because it's like in the US, how many white families
Speaker 3: are descended from thieves. Yeah, it's just she has big
Speaker 3: black square on Instagram energy where she wants to be
Speaker 3: perceived as doing the right thing, but when it comes
Speaker 3: to a personal action, she is like horrified to even
Speaker 3: be asked, Like I thought that I don't know who
Speaker 3: the actor was, but just how flippant she was where
Speaker 3: she was like, well, of course not and if you try,
Speaker 3: it's not going to work. And she's like juicing an
Speaker 3: orange and it's just like walking past her and is
Speaker 3: just so it seems like annoyed that Soriah would even
Speaker 3: ask a question.
Speaker 4: She did not expect her to be as headstrong as
Speaker 4: she is.
Speaker 3: Right, and I feel like that's so so like it's
Speaker 3: a very liberal attitude. And now I'm projecting because I
Speaker 3: am like projecting this onto a lot of attitudes around
Speaker 3: the California fires right now. But you know, just the
Speaker 3: idea that like you should be grateful I let you inside.
Speaker 3: How dare you ask me a follow up question? How
Speaker 3: dare you ask me a valid question? How dare you
Speaker 3: say that this is actually yours when that is the truth.
Speaker 3: And it's just like, well, the open door should have
Speaker 3: been satisfactory. And if you irritate me from here on out,
Speaker 3: I will be contacting the authorities. You're just like sink
Speaker 3: into the ground, sink into the core of the earth.
Speaker 2: Like it's just so, yeah, it's great representation of Allyship
Speaker 2: that is very performative and only exists as long as
Speaker 2: it's convenient for them. But they would never admit their
Speaker 2: participation and complicity in, you know, the occupation and apartheid
Speaker 2: that Israel is inflicting on the Palestinians. And as soon
Speaker 2: as she's asked to do that, she just like can't
Speaker 2: even admit that she's on stolen land and she freaks
Speaker 2: the fuck out. And yeah, that's what we see time
Speaker 2: and time again with this kind of brand of Zionism.
Speaker 4: Also, like to go back to Jamie's original point about
Speaker 4: seeing the levels of evilness. I think this is part
Speaker 4: of the frustration I have with specifically liberal Zionists. Like
Speaker 4: net Yaho's a monster, we can all agree on that,
Speaker 4: but evil comes in all shapes and forms, and.
Speaker 2: It's not so there's a spectrum.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and real allyship, and like, if you're gonna fight
Speaker 4: alongside people, you need to learn to recognize that. And
Speaker 4: you can give people some level of grace as they
Speaker 4: learn and unlearn things, but yeah, but you have to
Speaker 4: recognize at some point that they could be really nice
Speaker 4: to you to your face, say the right things, but
Speaker 4: don't actually do the right things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this movie does a really good job
Speaker 2: of showing that's spectrum where, you know, you have a
Speaker 2: bunch of scenes where Soria is either at the airport
Speaker 2: or at the bank or some you know, interacting with
Speaker 2: some IOF person and they are being openly hateful and
Speaker 2: racist and antagonistic. And then you have this other version
Speaker 2: of it with this you know woman who's living in
Speaker 2: this stolen home. Then you have that teacher who comes
Speaker 2: in at the end who's regurgitating the Zionist lie that
Speaker 2: this land was empty and barren. We didn't steal it
Speaker 2: from anyone, It was just here waiting for us. Then
Speaker 2: you have the guy at the passport office who says
Speaker 2: that he agrees with Soria and he's on her side,
Speaker 2: but he's still denying her important documentation and he is
Speaker 2: helping to uphold Zionist values via bureaucracy. So we see
Speaker 2: all of these examples and different degrees of op Prussian
Speaker 2: and systemic racism, and I think the movie does a
Speaker 2: good job of showing that there are different versions of this,
Speaker 2: but it's all under the same umbrella of Zionism and
Speaker 2: apartheid and occupation.
Speaker 4: One of the IOF or customs agents in the airport.
Speaker 4: I can't remember exactly what they say first, but when
Speaker 4: they're like asking her all these questions and they go,
Speaker 4: it's for your safety, and it's like, but you know
Speaker 4: it's not.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, that opening scene and also just how many
Speaker 3: times that opening scene is HARKing back to it and
Speaker 3: seeing Soria feel more and more empowered to be like,
Speaker 3: fuck you, I am allowed to be here. It's so
Speaker 3: frustrating to see those scenes where you know Sria shows
Speaker 3: up and like she knows what she's in for, but
Speaker 3: like experiencing it is very different. And I feel like,
Speaker 3: especially her and Emod with this ongoing battle with getting
Speaker 3: his visa to Canada approved, the thing that brings them
Speaker 3: both into like we're not going to hurt anybody, but
Speaker 3: we are going to get this money that I feel
Speaker 3: like is so frequently ignored in a lot of situations
Speaker 3: is both of them try every quote unquote like respectable
Speaker 3: way to get this done. But the system has been
Speaker 3: designed to deny them and designed to trap them, and
Speaker 3: design to keep them apart from either their homeland or
Speaker 3: from where they're trying to go, just from freedom in general.
Speaker 3: And I do appreciate that even though it's I mean
Speaker 3: especially I think of like young people watching this is
Speaker 3: like they both do everything they can in terms of
Speaker 3: like this is how you accomplish this, but it's you know,
Speaker 3: a mod's fourth time being rejected to do it in
Speaker 3: the quote unquote correct way. Soriah's doing everything she can
Speaker 3: in the two weeks she's been provided and is being
Speaker 3: shut down in this very polite like shrud sorry, nothing
Speaker 3: I can do. So when they arrive at like we
Speaker 3: are just going to take what's ours, it's impossible not
Speaker 3: to be on their side, Like it's just yeah.
Speaker 4: And this is so honest to the actual situation. I
Speaker 4: assume a lot of your listenership already knows about what's
Speaker 4: going on, But there are some really great documentaries out
Speaker 4: there that just support this point, one of them being
Speaker 4: Between Two Crossings about a young woman who gets accepted
Speaker 4: into college and she lives in Gaza and she can't
Speaker 4: get through either border and she hasks like all the
Speaker 4: paperwork that goes into that, and the systems are Yeah,
Speaker 4: even if someone doesn't believe that, like like if they
Speaker 4: believe that, you know, the two Postinian territories, Gaza and
Speaker 4: the West Bank are you know, they're not technically under
Speaker 4: occupation whatever. The limitations of movement and the hoops people
Speaker 4: have to jump through that they can't actually get through
Speaker 4: is really heartbreaking and it never gets less impactful when
Speaker 4: you see it on film, whether a fiction or documentary.
Speaker 4: And it's the way that Israel controls everything. They control
Speaker 4: the movement of everything into and out of these territories,
Speaker 4: including the people. There's a really great film called two
Speaker 4: hundred Meters from a couple of years ago about a
Speaker 4: man who his wife has Israeli like residency or whatever
Speaker 4: it's called. She's Palestinian, but she's part of the forty
Speaker 4: eight and he does not. So she chooses to live
Speaker 4: in what is technically Israel because their kids can go
Speaker 4: to a better school, and he lives two hundred meters
Speaker 4: away on the other side, and he can only get
Speaker 4: through to see them when he has a work permit,
Speaker 4: and sort of similarly robbing the bank. He's in a
Speaker 4: situation where his child's in the hospital, so he'll do
Speaker 4: anything possible to cross that border. But this is like,
Speaker 4: it's not some sort of crazy fiction. It is just
Speaker 4: the actual lived reality of a lot of people.
Speaker 2: And then it goes without saying that the current reality
Speaker 2: in Gaza is a holocaust that as we are recording
Speaker 2: this episode, it's like the day that the ceasefire deal
Speaker 2: was announced and we're waiting to see what is actually
Speaker 2: going to be the result of that, if you know,
Speaker 2: the occupying state that is Israel is going to honor
Speaker 2: that because they have a history of you know not
Speaker 2: and still bombing in massacring people, and so yeah, just
Speaker 2: to provide context to our listeners as far as like
Speaker 2: what's going on in the world right now. As we
Speaker 2: are recording this episode and discussing this movie.
Speaker 4: I feel like I keep like we keep talking so
Speaker 4: much about like the real life politics that feed into
Speaker 4: this movie, which is so important. But I feel like
Speaker 4: part of it is because it's hard to because we're
Speaker 4: in this moment where we're a Palatins top of mind,
Speaker 4: it's hard to not talk about their reality, for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but I do something I do love about this movie.
Speaker 4: We've talked like about a lot of the heavy stuff,
Speaker 4: but it also is so sweet and funny. HM and
Speaker 4: Emory does really does a good job at balancing that
Speaker 4: and not just making something that could feel like tragedy porn.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, like we're I think, like again a less
Speaker 3: thoughtful movie and also a movie not from a palace.
Speaker 3: Dan director would have probably harped on certain character elements
Speaker 3: or I feel like, as is so often in movies
Speaker 3: that skew towards tragedy porn, just not really write a character, yeah,
Speaker 3: and just define sort of this void like character by
Speaker 3: their trauma specifically, like they've got jokes, they're funny, like,
Speaker 3: and I just I don't know. I really do like
Speaker 3: the relationship between Sarah and Ahmad, where Ahmad can like
Speaker 3: loosen up around her a little bit, he can have
Speaker 3: some fun with her, and that she you know, in
Speaker 3: a way that like they're learning from each other in
Speaker 3: a way that doesn't feel the way that you see
Speaker 3: a lot of hetero relationships presented of like he really
Speaker 3: showed her how the world works, but like that's that's
Speaker 3: not how this works.
Speaker 2: I mean a uh Titanic with Jack being like here, Rose,
Speaker 2: let me show you exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it could have one gun down that route. M H.
Speaker 2: What I especially appreciate is that their love story, whether
Speaker 2: it's like the platonic friendship at first, and then it
Speaker 2: I mean, we don't even see them kiss on the lips,
Speaker 2: like he kind of nuzzles her and like kisses around
Speaker 2: the neck a little bit. But you're like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's no like big like scene where the camera was
Speaker 2: swirling around them as they kiss passionately.
Speaker 3: Yeah, capital M make capital L love.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing like that.
Speaker 3: No love in basketball virgility scene.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that the like interpersonal romantic love story doesn't
Speaker 2: overpower the larger story, which is like a love letter
Speaker 2: to Palestine. It's like the characters loving their home and
Speaker 2: soriah reconnecting with her homeland, and like that's that's the
Speaker 2: real story. And then this you know, relationship that blossoms
Speaker 2: is a fringe benefit of that and like a subplot narratively,
Speaker 2: But yeah, I like the balance of all of that.
Speaker 2: And then to the point of like the moments of
Speaker 2: levity and joy that you see a few that really
Speaker 2: stuck out to me, where the scene where Emma takes
Speaker 2: soria to his home and he's like come in and
Speaker 2: she's like, nah, oh it's okay, and then his comes
Speaker 2: out and she's like, oh, my son's so rude, he
Speaker 2: has no tact. He didn't even invite you in. He's like,
Speaker 2: yeah I did, and she's like shut up. And then
Speaker 2: she brings Soriah inside and she's telling them like the
Speaker 2: family history of oh, this is where my grandfather was born,
Speaker 2: this is where my parents grew up, this is where
Speaker 2: I grew up.
Speaker 4: And the whole family is there, which I there cool,
Speaker 4: like it's like meeting the parents, but like the whole
Speaker 4: family's there. She barely knows.
Speaker 2: This man, right, Yeah, she just like talked to him
Speaker 2: for the first time earlier today. She's you know, at
Speaker 2: this family home, and then his mom says, welcome to
Speaker 2: your country, and I was just like, oh, it like
Speaker 2: rocked me to my core.
Speaker 3: This like harkens back to a very specific relationship, but
Speaker 3: definitely like I feel like she has been including with
Speaker 3: Immad at this point, been made to feel like an
Speaker 3: outsider many many times by Israeli and Palestinian characters at
Speaker 3: this point, and it's Iman's mother who was the first
Speaker 3: person that is just so openly welcoming and happy that
Speaker 3: she's there. And I feel like that she did her
Speaker 3: son a huge favor in that department of like, okay,
Speaker 3: if this is your mom, you're probably an alright guy.
Speaker 3: And yeah, even though she doesn't come back, I just
Speaker 3: thought that that was so lovely because at that point,
Speaker 3: you know, we've been with Soriah feeling so confused and displaced,
Speaker 3: you know, since moment one of the movie and clearly before,
Speaker 3: and just seeing someone like welcome her with open arms
Speaker 3: was so so nice.
Speaker 2: I really was.
Speaker 3: I wanted to touch on just in terms of like
Speaker 3: the specific because I know it's like, it's very it
Speaker 3: feels impossible to not project twenty twenty five onto this
Speaker 3: movie now. But I did want to go back to
Speaker 3: how this movie was received at the time, because I
Speaker 3: honestly was like, any answer wouldn't shock me. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It was, you know, over fifteen years ago now, and
Speaker 3: I I guess as expected, the critical reception at the
Speaker 3: time in the West was mixed in a way that
Speaker 3: I thought was like very telling. This has a Rotten
Speaker 3: Tomatoes rating, which makes no fucking what sense. Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of these reviews are quite literally
Speaker 3: so old that you can't even read them anymore. But
Speaker 3: the two reviews I was able to access were on
Speaker 3: NPR and Slant they were both very like. Basically both
Speaker 3: of the reviews boiled down to this movie is histrionic
Speaker 3: and over dramatic, which is just so absurd from the
Speaker 3: first movie directed by a Palestinian woman. To receive it
Speaker 3: like that in the US is just so ridiculous. But
Speaker 3: I wanted to specifically single out. There is a quote
Speaker 3: in the NPR interview that is just so telling of
Speaker 3: like where this film critic is coming from, where he
Speaker 3: refers to Okay, in a fit of supreme frustration, she
Speaker 3: Soria convinces them to help her rob the bank for
Speaker 3: the three hundred and fifteen Palestinian pounds owed to her
Speaker 3: as her grandfather's heir, plus more than sixty years interest.
Speaker 3: When the clumsily orchestrated heyst is over, they go on
Speaker 3: the run to Tel Aviv so that she may see
Speaker 3: her grandfather's old house. It comes as no surprise when
Speaker 3: she picks a fight with the kind and sympathetic young
Speaker 3: Israeli who now owns it. And so it's just like wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'll keep going because this review really really frustrated me.
Speaker 3: But I feel like does clearly put us in a
Speaker 3: moment in time in American criticism, write director and Marigeous
Speaker 3: here in her first film, is determined to make important
Speaker 3: statements through her protagonists, which is what makes Soriah so uncompromising. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: it also makes her less of a character. She often
Speaker 3: seems little more than a mouthpiece for history lessons on
Speaker 3: the injustices perpetrated on the Palestinian people. So it's just
Speaker 3: I don't know. Most of the reviews are not only
Speaker 3: expectedly written by men, but they're written by white American men.
Speaker 3: That just I mean. And I know we've talked about
Speaker 3: this on the show in the case of so many
Speaker 3: movies over the years, but this just felt like a
Speaker 3: really glaring one of just clearly like this movie wasn't
Speaker 3: made for me, and so it's hysterical and.
Speaker 4: It's yeah, yeah, I see it a lot with Arab
Speaker 4: films in general up into this day. People think a
Speaker 4: film is bad because they don't get it, because they
Speaker 4: lack context, or it's not made for them, it does
Speaker 4: not hold their hand through it. Like sure, Soraya is
Speaker 4: hard headed. I would find myself sometimes being like, no,
Speaker 4: you're gonna get yourself in trouble with the way she
Speaker 4: would speak to people. But it doesn't make her not
Speaker 4: a character like it is part of her characters, It is.
Speaker 2: Part of literally and you get why she's behaving that way.
Speaker 2: She's very justified.
Speaker 4: As like an Arab too. Like I just like get
Speaker 4: nervous for her when she because she's so outspoken and
Speaker 4: so confident that she's right, and I am so scared
Speaker 4: that someone's going to shoot her.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing, Like her safety is at stake
Speaker 2: in this context, and yeah, you do, you certainly fear
Speaker 2: for her, but you also admire her for like I
Speaker 2: there's a scene where I mean, and again, there's so
Speaker 2: many scenes where she's interfacing with someone who is like
Speaker 2: enforcing this red tape that is not allowing her to
Speaker 2: you know, get the passport she's entitled to, or get
Speaker 2: the money out of the bank that she's entitled to,
Speaker 2: or you know, do all these things. You know, it's
Speaker 2: this oppressive force that is designed to withhold things from
Speaker 2: her that she's entitled to. So all this is it.
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of scenes like that where she's always
Speaker 2: just like what the fun this is bullshit? She's calling
Speaker 2: it out every step of the way. And then there
Speaker 2: was one that I especially enjoyed it. I think it's
Speaker 2: when she's crossing back into the West Bank after she
Speaker 2: went on her like shopping spree of like getting disguises
Speaker 2: for the for the quote unquote robbery, and the occupier
Speaker 2: guy is like, hey, no tourists allowed. You can't go here,
Speaker 2: and she's like, well, where are you from. She's basically
Speaker 2: implying like you're a tourist, Like, where's your family from?
Speaker 2: You haven't been here this whole time. My family and
Speaker 2: my people have been here this whole time. And it's
Speaker 2: just it's many situations like that where she's always pushing back.
Speaker 2: She's not afraid to call out injustices when she sees them,
Speaker 2: but it does make you like fearful for her safety.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm looking at the Rotten Tomatoes page right now,
Speaker 4: and Ella Taylor for the Village Boyce refers to her
Speaker 4: as a spoiled princess.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thankfully that link. If you click the link to
Speaker 3: see more. They're like, we've never heard of this review
Speaker 3: because it's so like the one poll quote.
Speaker 4: You're like, oh, okay, idiot, Yeah, it's too bad. But luckily,
Speaker 4: I think audiences, especially now can see past that, and
Speaker 4: the film has had a staying power that these Western
Speaker 4: critics couldn't suppress.
Speaker 2: So yes, yeah, for our listeners who if you're listening
Speaker 2: to this episode and you haven't watched the movie, I
Speaker 2: highly recommend that you do again. Like Jamie said, is
Speaker 2: very accessible, at least in the US, if you have
Speaker 2: access to Canopy, which you can get if you have
Speaker 2: a public library card.
Speaker 3: You should have any you should have one.
Speaker 4: Unless you live in New York City, then you don't
Speaker 4: have Canopy.
Speaker 3: But but yes, I know that's one of the few places, right.
Speaker 4: They used to but they don't anymore.
Speaker 3: Mister Adams said no more.
Speaker 4: I think if pre dated Adams really wow. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: I'd love to put the blame on him regardless, I.
Speaker 3: Guess I took. I took the path of please resistance.
Speaker 2: If you need a Canopy log in, yes, Mina, I
Speaker 2: I got you. Yeah, I might.
Speaker 4: I should have asked you earlier because I so. I
Speaker 4: will say for audience members who don't have Canopy, there
Speaker 4: are two other places to access it that are not
Speaker 4: going to give your computer a virus. Unfortunately, right now,
Speaker 4: neither of them have English subtitles, and the film has
Speaker 4: large portions in English, but is predominantly in Arabic. That
Speaker 4: bothered me, and I'm going to see if I can
Speaker 4: figure out how we can get them some SRT files.
Speaker 4: But if you are part of Solidarity Cinema, which I
Speaker 4: highly highly recommend, you just join a Google group and
Speaker 4: you have access to hundreds of really amazing rare films,
Speaker 4: including Salt of the Sea. It is also on the
Speaker 4: Palestine Film Index, which is a wonderful document put together
Speaker 4: by a number of volunteers over the last year just
Speaker 4: noting Palestinian films. Not every film on there has a
Speaker 4: direct link to watch, but if you the listener, are
Speaker 4: interested in exploring more Palestinian films specifically, or I should
Speaker 4: say films that deal with the Israeli occupation because some
Speaker 4: of them are also from Lebanon and Syria. That is
Speaker 4: an amazing resource even just to find out what some
Speaker 4: of the titles and the filmmakers might be. But it
Speaker 4: also has some links to some things that are otherwise
Speaker 4: pretty rare. But yeah, we'll see about getting some English
Speaker 4: subtitles on those things. I found it on Okay dot Rue,
Speaker 4: but I would not recommend that.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, we've all done it. I did it
Speaker 3: last I forget why I did it. We will link
Speaker 3: those because yeah, I follow the Solidarity Cinema letterbox list
Speaker 3: like they have a very very accessible presence, So we'll
Speaker 3: link to that in the description.
Speaker 4: And I'll just say this that, like I used to
Speaker 4: work in film distribution, I am all for, especially for
Speaker 4: indie filmmakers, international filmmakers. Whenever you can give them the
Speaker 4: money that they deserve and rent the film or stream
Speaker 4: the film or buy the DVD, I think you should.
Speaker 4: But unfortunately so many international films, especially older ones, are
Speaker 4: not even given that chance, which case, resources like these
Speaker 4: are so incredibly important to basically archiving and making these
Speaker 4: films accessible, So nobody say anything about piracy in the
Speaker 4: show comments. I swear to God, there's a lot of
Speaker 4: things that I even as a film programmer, there's lots
Speaker 4: of things I would never be able to show or
Speaker 4: review myself with how resources like solid Ar Cinema and
Speaker 4: House and Film Index.
Speaker 2: So yeah, as you mentioned at the top of the episode,
Speaker 2: you provided a list of a bunch of options of
Speaker 2: movies you would like to cover with us, and several
Speaker 2: of them, just like are not available to stream anywhere.
Speaker 2: You can't buy them. There was no way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is the name of the movie that summer.
Speaker 3: Farah also suggested that we wanted to cover with her,
Speaker 3: and then we couldn't. And then yes, Mida you suggested it,
Speaker 3: and we still couldn't because we couldn't find it.
Speaker 4: Probably I'm going to guess it was Amrika.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's the one.
Speaker 4: Yes, Yes, Well, so that film. Everyone should keep an
Speaker 4: eye out for it because hopefully it'll come back soon.
Speaker 4: The director just got the rights back.
Speaker 3: Oh, oh, wonderful.
Speaker 4: Because the thing that happens to demystify some more of
Speaker 4: the industry for listeners is, please, films have rights holders,
Speaker 4: and the best way for them to be seen in
Speaker 4: the US is to have a US distributor who is
Speaker 4: then the regional rights holder, and those deals usually last
Speaker 4: about ten years. So a lot of times when things
Speaker 4: suddenly disappear from the Internet, it's just that the rights
Speaker 4: expired and for whatever reason, that company doesn't hold them anymore,
Speaker 4: and they're probably just back with the filmmaker who doesn't
Speaker 4: have the means, whether financially or just the time or
Speaker 4: the interest in getting it up on vod platforms or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 4: Amrika's I think one of those films that just the
Speaker 4: licensing ended or sometimes if a company goes under, it
Speaker 4: just kind of gets lost and it doesn't always easily
Speaker 4: revert back to the filmmaker. It sucks. The industry is
Speaker 4: a mess.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Amrika's an amazing film by Sharen Doabs, who has
Speaker 4: a new movie at Sundance and also Oho like directs
Speaker 4: some television and another pest in American filmmaker to watch
Speaker 4: out for since we're talking about her. Hell yeah, but
Speaker 4: hopefully in the future you can talk about that film someday.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm also going to see if any of these movies
Speaker 2: you suggested, especially for the ones that aren't on the
Speaker 2: Palestine Film Index or that like don't have accessibility to
Speaker 2: watch streaming, if they're available on DVD, I'll check that out,
Speaker 2: because look, I love a DVD.
Speaker 4: eBay is another great resource for finding especially if they
Speaker 4: did have US distribution. At one point, which a film
Speaker 4: I suggested that I absolutely love and highly recommend is
Speaker 4: Caramel by Nadine Labaki. I have the DVD and I
Speaker 4: think it was like lions Gate or Sony Pictures Classic
Speaker 4: or something.
Speaker 2: But cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the rights must have the contract must have ended.
Speaker 2: It happened with that and with Crossroads famously.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Yes, two great films.
Speaker 2: Equal quality. Definitely. Does anyone have anything else they'd like
Speaker 2: to discuss regarding Salt of the Sea or anything really
Speaker 2: or anything.
Speaker 4: I would love to soapbox for a quick minute. I
Speaker 4: know we're running short on time, but I just you know,
Speaker 4: if it hasn't come across clearly by now. I'm very
Speaker 4: passionate about Arab cinema, and I think a lot of
Speaker 4: people listening, especially those who are from America, probably don't
Speaker 4: even recognize what kind of anti Arab biases that they hold.
Speaker 4: And I really encourage everyone to speak out international cinema
Speaker 4: in general, but consider adding some Arab cinema onto your letterbox,
Speaker 4: watch lists, and if you want to try to unlearn
Speaker 4: some of these biases or learn why, you know, even
Speaker 4: if you are supportive an allied, you know, not an
Speaker 4: overt racist, you might hold some biases that you don't
Speaker 4: even realize. A great resource to kind of starting to
Speaker 4: unpack how the media affects where these come from is
Speaker 4: a book, book, and connected documentary called Real Bad Arabs,
Speaker 4: Real Being Are Double E L subtitle How Hollywood Villifies
Speaker 4: the people They're both by Jack Shaheen. I have a
Speaker 4: copy of it above me here. He's really really incredible,
Speaker 4: and the book just goes through I believe it's like
Speaker 4: a thousand American films and points out all of the
Speaker 4: anti Arab stereotypes, and the documentary does it more generally
Speaker 4: talking about these things. And if anyone listening thinks that
Speaker 4: this is all a post nine to eleven thing, it
Speaker 4: is not. It's been going on a really long time,
Speaker 4: specifically about Palestinians too. The sort of Arabs as terrorist
Speaker 4: trope was specifically Palestinians as terrorists for a long long time.
Speaker 4: And I just get really frustrated when even folks I
Speaker 4: know in the industry they'll be like, oh, you you
Speaker 4: know work in Arab cinema. Oh I love this Aronia director.
Speaker 4: And then I have to be like, you're on Newscasion,
Speaker 4: it's not Arab. You've never seen an Arab film, have you?
Speaker 4: So I just I would love if more people watched
Speaker 4: our stuff. And part of the reason I brought up
Speaker 4: some of the like comedy in the film too, is
Speaker 4: because I think people are afraid of Arab cinema because
Speaker 4: it can be very very heavy, but there's humor, there's romance,
Speaker 4: there's horror, there's sci fi, and I just I think
Speaker 4: we get a bad rap. So that's what I want
Speaker 4: to say before.
Speaker 2: Thank you for out saying that it's all very true.
Speaker 4: Yeah, somehow my Instagram has become like a landing point
Speaker 4: for a lot of people seeking out Arab cinema. So
Speaker 4: people are welcome to follow me. It's my handle is
Speaker 4: just yes Meina dot to wheel, so feel free to
Speaker 4: follow me on Instagram. But I I have a couple
Speaker 4: directions to send people. They're all linked on my Instagram.
Speaker 4: But on my website, I keep a Palestinian film calendar.
Speaker 4: It's specifically for New York City, but I do include
Speaker 4: limited online screenings that are available throughout the US from
Speaker 4: different sites and festivals and stuff like that. And on
Speaker 4: that page, I have a list of resources of other
Speaker 4: places to explore and learn about Palestinian cinema specifically, So
Speaker 4: even if you're not in New York City and can't
Speaker 4: come to any of the in person screenings listed, it's
Speaker 4: a great jumping off point if you are in New
Speaker 4: York City. I also do a screening series called Cinema Arabia.
Speaker 4: It's every other month at the Nighthawk Cinema in Williamsburg.
Speaker 4: There's a Cinema Arabia Instagram as well that you can
Speaker 4: follow to keep up with it, and that series specifically
Speaker 4: is to highlight lesser known or lesser shown Arab films
Speaker 4: that I think deserve more attention and hopefully sort of
Speaker 4: challenge and excite the curious cinephile. But also too, there
Speaker 4: is the Arab Film and Media Institute, the Arab American
Speaker 4: National Museum, MISNA, and RT East, which are like four
Speaker 4: of the big Arab film and cultural organizations here in
Speaker 4: the US. So I would check any of them out,
Speaker 4: though I'm not personally associated with any of them anymore,
Speaker 4: but they're all really great places to go. And then,
Speaker 4: oh then one more thing to promote. I no longer
Speaker 4: specifically program in Arab cinema. I am the new film
Speaker 4: programmer at BAM, so you will be seeing more for
Speaker 4: anyone in the New York City area, you will be
Speaker 4: seeing more Arab cinema in the BAM lineup, but not exclusively.
Speaker 4: My first program I will plug is at the end
Speaker 4: last week of February and it is dedicated to counterculture
Speaker 4: pioneers from the Middle East. So if you want to
Speaker 4: learn about the first hip hop group in Palace Sign
Speaker 4: or the first all female thrash metal band from Lebanon,
Speaker 4: or the first professional skateboarder from Morocco. That'll be the
Speaker 4: last week in February, and then in general, I encourage
Speaker 4: you to come see some movies at the Brooklyn Academy
Speaker 4: of Music.
Speaker 3: This is wonderful, I mean, because it's frustrating on our
Speaker 3: end to have so many great options for movies to
Speaker 3: want to cover and then have to kind of go with.
Speaker 3: I mean, we lucked out here because alt of this
Speaker 3: is incredible, but for the access to be so limited,
Speaker 3: it is frustrating.
Speaker 4: It's very frustrating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I can't imagine like what your day
Speaker 3: to day is like, but I'm so grateful that you
Speaker 3: are doing so much of the work to make Arab
Speaker 3: cinnemon more accessible and we will yeah, continue to share
Speaker 3: however we can be supportive of your work is what
Speaker 3: we would love to do.
Speaker 4: I appreciate it. And if you ever want to talk
Speaker 4: about non Arab cinema, I'm also down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, come back, talk about whatever you.
Speaker 3: Want, whatever your favorite movies are. We're we're down for anything.
Speaker 4: We can talk about my favorite film of twenty twenty four,
Speaker 4: which is the Kneecap movie.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that movie was so good, Katelyn, I
Speaker 3: haven't seen it. Caitlin's side, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It rocks. It's so great. A movie that does not
Speaker 2: pass the Bechdel test. But you know what movie does
Speaker 2: pass the Bechdel test, Salt of this Sea. It is
Speaker 2: mostly the conversation between Soriah and the Israeli woman. I mean,
Speaker 2: she does talk to her friend Krinn, and she talks
Speaker 2: to Imad's mom. But this is an example of a
Speaker 2: movie where it's like, even if it doesn't handily pass,
Speaker 2: or even if some of the conversations that pass are
Speaker 2: like contentious, difficult conversations. As we've always said, the test
Speaker 2: is a jumping off point and there is much else
Speaker 2: to discuss. So to me, the more relevant metric is
Speaker 2: the nipple scale of the famous spectral cast nipplescale, where
Speaker 2: we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on
Speaker 2: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I think this
Speaker 2: is such an important and moving movie. Wow, oh whoa
Speaker 2: watch out world, I'm a poet. I think this is
Speaker 2: just so terrifically done. And I think the way Soriah
Speaker 2: the characters is represented in her journey of reconnecting with
Speaker 2: her homeland and advocating for herself and advocating for her people,
Speaker 2: and the story just like being a love letter to
Speaker 2: Palestine and the connection she makes along the way, and
Speaker 2: the thing she has to deal with along the way.
Speaker 2: Like everything about this narrative is just so poignant and
Speaker 2: beautiful and heart wrenching and just so well done. I
Speaker 2: feel like, I don't know why I wouldn't give it nipples.
Speaker 4: But what about Marjuan, Well, yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 3: That was something I wanted to talk because I Marwuan
Speaker 3: and I'm a Marwan Truther. I love that guy. I
Speaker 3: want to see his film. He reminded me of whatever
Speaker 3: I was like middle schooler who was really into Rent,
Speaker 3: and he reminded me a lot of Mark from Rent,
Speaker 3: where you're like, he's making a movie.
Speaker 4: Is it good?
Speaker 3: We're not sure, but he's really into it. And I
Speaker 3: love a character like that. I do wish. I mean,
Speaker 3: just because it seems like we're introduced to Karne, I think,
Speaker 3: who's like a potential friend for Soriah at the beginning,
Speaker 3: but then she really only does seem to come into
Speaker 3: contact with men for the remainder of the story outside
Speaker 3: of this horrible Israeli woman. I just am like, if
Speaker 3: I could be so nitpicky, I would love if we
Speaker 3: just adjusted Marjuan a little bit and both, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't feel like it's like, it's not a gender
Speaker 3: specific character. I would love to see like, especially coming
Speaker 3: in you know, in the first widely distributed film by
Speaker 3: a Palestinian women, see a woman filmmaker and maybe not
Speaker 3: have her cozy up with the Israeli antagonists that the
Speaker 3: guy from NPR loved. Yeah, that's my hyper that's my
Speaker 3: little little thing because I wish that there had been more.
Speaker 3: Even though we see women allies for Soriah, we don't
Speaker 3: really get to know any of them. I mean, even
Speaker 3: like getting to know the mother better, who made her
Speaker 3: feel so welcomer. It felt like a lot of the
Speaker 3: women characters who weren't soah were a little bit like
Speaker 3: very in and out of the story. But that's very nitpicky.
Speaker 4: I do think it was like a little weird the
Speaker 4: way Karen is introduced and then never seen again.
Speaker 2: Where what was her deal in the bank when they're
Speaker 2: taking the money back? We like get a cut to
Speaker 2: this woman who looked just like her, But I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's her. If I just like
Speaker 2: am having a facial recognition problem.
Speaker 4: I don't remember. But it could have been a little
Speaker 4: easter egg because Soraya is completely covered in an obeya,
Speaker 4: so she wouldn't have recognized her, And that could have
Speaker 4: been a fun poke by the director to be like
Speaker 4: someone she knows who could rat her out effectively.
Speaker 2: Who could recognize her doesn't right.
Speaker 3: That would have been fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the intention. I think we cut
Speaker 2: to like a shot of Krinn. I think I don't know.
Speaker 4: Karin is in and out so fast. You could show
Speaker 4: me a picture of her right now and I would
Speaker 4: have no idea who she was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, there's not sure what her deal is, but
Speaker 3: best of luck or goodbye.
Speaker 4: Yeah. It just seemed like so weird to introduce what
Speaker 4: was set up to be an important character and then
Speaker 4: she just never shows up again. So yeah, but it
Speaker 4: is nitpicky because ultimately I think the story doesn't necessarily
Speaker 4: need Kurin nor.
Speaker 2: I think even so, Yeah, I'm gonna stick with five nipples.
Speaker 2: I think this is just such an important movie recommend
Speaker 2: everyone watch it, and yeah, five nipples. I'll give them
Speaker 2: to a Mari Jaesser and Sarah the character, as well
Speaker 2: as Suher Hamad the actor.
Speaker 3: I'll go four and have off of our our researent discussion.
Speaker 3: But I mean even with I mean, I think Soria
Speaker 3: is such a strong central character. I love that she
Speaker 3: pulls both from the actor's experience and from the writing
Speaker 3: and directing ability. And I just I don't know, I
Speaker 3: love this movie. I really wish slash hope. I feel
Speaker 3: like this is the kind of movie that should be
Speaker 3: shown in like schools. And I mean this in the
Speaker 3: most positive way. It reminds me of the kinds of
Speaker 3: movies you would watch in history class, but it's an
Speaker 3: area of history that American public schools take no interest
Speaker 3: in whatsoever. But I think it would really resonate. I mean,
Speaker 3: and like you were saying earlier, yes, you know it
Speaker 3: can resonate with everyone, but I think also does a
Speaker 3: very subtle and thoughtful job of just illustrating an everyday
Speaker 3: person's predicament. So yeah, I think it's wonderful. I'll go
Speaker 3: four and a half nipples. I guess I'm going to
Speaker 3: give three. Damn Mary Jasser. Oh gosh, really difficult decisions
Speaker 3: to make here. I will give one to Sahar Hamad.
Speaker 3: I will give one two. Oh my gosh, wait where
Speaker 3: we see this Wikipedia page?
Speaker 4: For what it's worth. Sucks.
Speaker 3: They don't even have a cast list, and I'm just like,
Speaker 3: how am I supposed to?
Speaker 4: I will say, I was like trying to look up
Speaker 4: the character the Israeli woman's name, and I could not
Speaker 4: figure it out.
Speaker 2: I don't think she's listed like on IMDb.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they've got like even on like you know the
Speaker 4: way like Google will show you like the top cast
Speaker 4: when you look up a film. They have like the
Speaker 4: cat collar before they have her.
Speaker 3: Okay, I think one, my fourth will go to Salah Bakhry,
Speaker 3: and then my last half nipples. I think I want
Speaker 3: to bring up a while ago, one of my favorite
Speaker 3: movie tropes in the world someone wearing a T shirt
Speaker 3: with just the name of where they came from. So
Speaker 3: I'm going to give my last half nipple to Soria's
Speaker 3: shirt that just says Brooklyn. I love that movie trope
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 4: Between that and her accent, there is no question You're like,
Speaker 4: we get it. She's from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2: Yasmina how about you.
Speaker 4: I would also give it four and a half nipples
Speaker 4: for the same reasoning Jamie had so disappointed in Marijuan.
Speaker 4: Mostly I wish uh tisk I think he deserved better.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I would like to give them all to Stella.
Speaker 4: That's it. Maybe to the whole Bakra family, even the
Speaker 4: ones who are not in it. Sorry, but this is
Speaker 4: this is not very bechdel cast of me to give
Speaker 4: it all to men, but men, just.
Speaker 3: To multiple generations of men. This did maybe want to
Speaker 3: see her her most recent feature with Sala Bucky and
Speaker 3: his Father, though, I.
Speaker 4: Mean like it, just that one. It sounds great, truly
Speaker 4: impossible to find online. If I find a copy, I'll
Speaker 4: send it to you.
Speaker 3: But yeah, let us let us know.
Speaker 4: It's been kind of heartbreaking because her other films have
Speaker 4: been on and off accessible, but that one. I don't
Speaker 4: know what the deal is, so damn.
Speaker 3: Yeah, keep his posted, and thank you so much for
Speaker 3: coming on the show like this. This has been so wonderful.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. Of course I've been I've been
Speaker 4: waiting for the call, so I'm so delighted to be here.
Speaker 3: Where can listeners follow you online and follow your work?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so my handles on every everything are my name, Yes,
Speaker 4: Mina to wheel. My website is Yesmina dashtowheel dot com.
Speaker 4: It has all the events that I have coming up,
Speaker 4: whether it's through BAM or Nighthawk or somewhere else, as
Speaker 4: well as the Polsinian film calendar. I think that's it,
Speaker 4: or you know, I don't know. Go to the BAM
Speaker 4: website look at what's coming up next. Yeah.
Speaker 2: If you live in New York, go to the screenings
Speaker 2: and we'll buck you the next time we're there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we will, Yes, please. You can follow us on Instagram
Speaker 2: at Bechdel Cast. You can subscribe to our Matreon, where
Speaker 2: you get two bonus episodes every month, plus access to
Speaker 2: the back catalog, all for five dollars a month. At
Speaker 2: patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 3: If you haven't gotten tickets, you can we sell tickets
Speaker 3: available to our San fond discussion next week January twenty third,
Speaker 3: or we'll be talking about Titanic. Ever heard of it?
Speaker 3: And yeah, get our birch at teapublic dot com slash
Speaker 3: the Bechdel Cast. If you're so inclined with that, Let's
Speaker 3: rob a bank. Let's rob a bank.
Speaker 2: Yeah, take back, What's ours exactly? Yeah, Bye Bye. The
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