Speaker 1: You're listening to American Shadows, a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Grim and Mild from Aaron Monkey. The Sultana was a
Speaker 1: beautiful steamboat, up hulking vessel of wood and paddle wheels.
Speaker 1: She was only about two years old, but roughly the
Speaker 1: size of a football field and featured twin smokestacks from
Speaker 1: which hung a pair of elk antlers. They were given
Speaker 1: to her as a trophy for being the fastest boat around.
Speaker 1: She was also a workhorse. The Sultana was originally built
Speaker 1: to fairy cotton, but when the Civil War broke out,
Speaker 1: she got a new assignment. She became tasked with ferrying
Speaker 1: Union troops and supplies up and down the Mississippi River.
Speaker 1: In time, she'd begin carrying that cotton again alongside passengers
Speaker 1: from New Orleans to her home in Saint Louis, Missouri.
Speaker 1: Her captain, a man by the name of James Mason,
Speaker 1: was proud of her contributions to the war efforts and
Speaker 1: how well she continued to provide an integral lifeline to
Speaker 1: communities up and down the river. And when he got
Speaker 1: word of Abraham Lincoln's death, he decided that he was
Speaker 1: going to once again put her speed to the test.
Speaker 1: He wanted to be the first boat in New Orleans
Speaker 1: to break the news of the President's assassination. So off
Speaker 1: they went, a captain and his ship sailing downstream bearing
Speaker 1: bad news. A quick stop in Vicksburg, Mississippi was meant
Speaker 1: to address the Sultanah's boiler issues, which seemed to be
Speaker 1: exacerbated under the quick pace of her run. While he
Speaker 1: was there, Captain Mason received a lucrative offer. The Union
Speaker 1: Army wanted him and his ship to ferry home. Their
Speaker 1: prisoners of war are recently released from Confederate hands, and
Speaker 1: they would pay him well. He opted into the deal
Speaker 1: and decided he had better get moving. A decision was
Speaker 1: made too simply patched the boilers, rather than spending time
Speaker 1: in port executing more meticulous and costly repairs. The Sultana
Speaker 1: was steadfast. What hurt could come from one quick run,
Speaker 1: So Captain Mason loaded the Sultana, stuffing her holds and
Speaker 1: decks with about twenty two hundred men, more than sixteen
Speaker 1: hundred over her capacity. Each man had a price on
Speaker 1: his head, and the money math made it hard for
Speaker 1: him to see that he had made a very fatal
Speaker 1: miscalculation with his newly sprung charges on board, men who
Speaker 1: had seen horrors the young country had never before witnessed,
Speaker 1: and lived through it all. The Sultana set off northbound
Speaker 1: into the cold spring thaw. The ship creaked, the wheels
Speaker 1: churned laboriously, the boiler strained, and the men slept, and
Speaker 1: at just about two in the morning, she gave way.
Speaker 1: Unable to take what was being asked of her, the
Speaker 1: Sultanah's first boiler gave out and exploded. This set off
Speaker 1: a chain reaction and caused her other two boilers to
Speaker 1: go off like bombs, incinerating the sleeping people in her hold.
Speaker 1: Her shrapnel flew in all directions, and boiling water from
Speaker 1: her belly effectively cooked men to death. Those who managed
Speaker 1: to survive began to swim. They clawed their way through
Speaker 1: the cold, shopping waves, aiming for shore. They pulled themselves
Speaker 1: up on the river's banks, having landed in the former
Speaker 1: Confederate territory of Arkansas. For men still wearing their Union uniforms,
Speaker 1: this could have been a second fright, but instead they
Speaker 1: found something entirely different, a sense of unity and humanity
Speaker 1: they hadn't seen in all their time. Away for war.
Speaker 1: The locals headed for the explosion and ran into the water,
Speaker 1: and there they began to fish out the Union soldiers,
Speaker 1: bringing them safety. Some quickly built a raft to begin
Speaker 1: rescuing men stranded in the remainder of the Sultana's slowly
Speaker 1: sinking wreckage. They brought them into their homes and tended
Speaker 1: to the wounded and dying. All in all, historians believe
Speaker 1: almost twelve hundred of the twenty two hundred men aboard
Speaker 1: the ship died. To this day, it remains among the
Speaker 1: deadliest maritime disasters in the United States history. These soldiers
Speaker 1: had come so far and were so close to home
Speaker 1: after surviving the war. What should have been as celebration
Speaker 1: a homecoming, ended not in another chance at life, but
Speaker 1: in their funerals. I'm lorn Vogebaum. Welcome to American shadows.
Speaker 1: From the Lenape to the Dutch, to the British, and
Speaker 1: then to the Americans. The spit of land now known
Speaker 1: as New York City had long been a hub of trade, culture,
Speaker 1: and immigration. Indigenous peoples and colonists like depended on the
Speaker 1: area's waterways for fishing, trade, and communication. Traditional birch bark
Speaker 1: canoes and other. Smaller vessels were long popular for navigating
Speaker 1: New York's lakes and rivers, while larger boats were necessary
Speaker 1: to venture out into the wide open Atlantic. But as
Speaker 1: the country was colonized, the ports became even more central
Speaker 1: to commerce and immigration. By the turn of the nineteenth century,
Speaker 1: hundreds of boats and thousands of people docked in New
Speaker 1: York City daily, many of them chasing after stories about
Speaker 1: a certain American dream. For the hopeful folks who survived
Speaker 1: the long trip from Europe, and many were left figuring
Speaker 1: out their next steps. And many came young and unattached,
Speaker 1: hopeful that someone they knew in this new land might
Speaker 1: make good on the promise of helping them get started.
Speaker 1: Some had no one. Others arrived too, well established communities
Speaker 1: but waiting for them with open arms, and if they
Speaker 1: were lucky enough, these seaweary passengers didn't have to go
Speaker 1: far from the boat dock. In the case of those
Speaker 1: immigrating from Germany, many found themselves a new home in
Speaker 1: Klinedeutschland or Little Germany, in the area that's now known
Speaker 1: as the Lower East Side. By eighteen fifty five, New
Speaker 1: York City had the third largest German population in any
Speaker 1: city worldwide, surpassed only by Berlin in Vienna. Their little
Speaker 1: corner of the city burst with the vibrancy of the
Speaker 1: old country, the sense of home cooking and comforting dialects
Speaker 1: mingling with the unfamiliar sounds and smells of Manhattan's southern point.
Speaker 1: It's here that they worked to establish a new rhythm
Speaker 1: of a new life, borrowing enough of the old ways
Speaker 1: to feel brave enough to be in this unfamiliar place.
Speaker 1: A One of the central ways folks found recipite from
Speaker 1: the streets, which were decidedly not paved with gold as promised,
Speaker 1: was to join church communities. A Saint Mark's Evangelical Lutheran
Speaker 1: Church in the heart of Blindeutschland was one of these places.
Speaker 1: For decades, the church had been the center of the
Speaker 1: Little Germany community. Beyond providing prayers and absolution for its parishioners,
Speaker 1: it also provided camaraderie in play. And it was on
Speaker 1: June fifteenth of nineteen oh four, but the church had
Speaker 1: made plans for a long summer day's outing. That morning,
Speaker 1: a crowd of mostly women and children were seen off
Speaker 1: by their husbands, who were largely on their way to work.
Speaker 1: The general Slocum, a paddle steamer, sat and docked and
Speaker 1: ready to ferry folks away for a day of leisure.
Speaker 1: It was a treat to have an entire day to themselves,
Speaker 1: and since it was just about the beginning of summer,
Speaker 1: the days were still growing just a bit longer, if
Speaker 1: only for a little while. The school year had come
Speaker 1: to an end. It was a hopeful season. That sunny morning,
Speaker 1: over thirteen hundred members of the Saint Mark's community showed up.
Speaker 1: The children were dressed in their finest clothes, shouting and
Speaker 1: giggling as their mothers corralled them on the docks. Music
Speaker 1: from a German band added to the sense of celebration,
Speaker 1: while tiny German flags waved in small hands. As more
Speaker 1: families gathered, lugging their baskets of meats and sweets, it
Speaker 1: became clear that this was going to be a church
Speaker 1: picnic for the ages. They looked upon their boat, and
Speaker 1: she was a beautiful thing. The Slocum, to her credit,
Speaker 1: was said to be the largest and most splendid excursion
Speaker 1: steamer in the whole state. She was a wooden triple
Speaker 1: decker side paddler with a main cabin filled with glossed
Speaker 1: wood and red velvet trimmings. Her name was emblazoned in
Speaker 1: gold over her white paint. There was an immense sense
Speaker 1: of anticipation in getting a chance to take to the
Speaker 1: waters on one of these famous pleasure crafts. Just before
Speaker 1: the clock struck ten am, the Slocum rang her bell
Speaker 1: and began to pull away from the dock. They were
Speaker 1: going north up the East River and heading for a
Speaker 1: picnic ground on the north shore of Long Island. On
Speaker 1: a good day, which this one very much was. The
Speaker 1: trip should take no longer than two hours. The passengers
Speaker 1: leaned over the railings, waving to those who remained on shore.
Speaker 1: They laughed as their loved ones and dock workers alike
Speaker 1: became specks in the distance, anticipating what lay ahead for
Speaker 1: them up river. The Slocum was named after Henry Warner Slocum,
Speaker 1: a distinguished union general, and had been in operation for
Speaker 1: thirteen years. However, a series of mishaps in the years
Speaker 1: since her commission might have given her passengers pause had
Speaker 1: they known about them, and just four months after her
Speaker 1: initial launch in eighteen ninety one, she ran aground. She
Speaker 1: was okay, but three years later did the same thing.
Speaker 1: This time with thousands of passengers on board, and just
Speaker 1: a month after that, a terrible storm ran she and
Speaker 1: her passengers aground again near Coney Island, and then later
Speaker 1: that year she collided with another ship in eighteen ninety eight,
Speaker 1: should have another collision in nineteen o two, she would
Speaker 1: run aground one more time, stranding her hundreds of passengers
Speaker 1: overnight until help could come in the morning. How was it, then,
Speaker 1: given this track record, that the Slocum was the prize
Speaker 1: ship in the Harbor oh During this time, boat accidents
Speaker 1: were relatively common, and since so few had been hurt
Speaker 1: in her incidents over the years, she continued to paddle on.
Speaker 1: This was all part and parcel of the paddle boat experience,
Speaker 1: or so Rider's thought. Her captain, William Van Shake, was
Speaker 1: an experienced mariner who knew the New York waterways well.
Speaker 1: Of note on this sunny June morning was an infamously
Speaker 1: turbulent spot in the river known as the hell Gate.
Speaker 1: It had sunk hundreds of ships over the years, but
Speaker 1: he knew he had the dexterity and wherewithal to ferry
Speaker 1: his passengers through safely. But as he would soon realize,
Speaker 1: this wouldn't be his chief concern of the day. To
Speaker 1: his horror, any concern about the hell gate was about
Speaker 1: to be overshadowed by something far more sinister. About thirty
Speaker 1: minutes into their voyage, the first guests noticed that something
Speaker 1: was terribly wrong. A group of children alerted their parents
Speaker 1: that a small fire had started in a room just
Speaker 1: below the main deck. A crewman, trying to think, quickly
Speaker 1: decided that the best way to put it out would
Speaker 1: be to both stomp it and throw handfuls of charcoal
Speaker 1: atop the fire to smother it. This, of course, only
Speaker 1: fed the flames. Then a scream, and soon a word
Speaker 1: was spreading even faster than the flames, and a general
Speaker 1: panic erupted across the decks. The crew on board relatively
Speaker 1: untrained on what to do in the event of a fire.
Speaker 1: The smoke began to billow near the bow of the boat.
Speaker 1: The passengers rushed to the lifeboats and jackets, only to
Speaker 1: find that they couldn't be untied. The jackets were old
Speaker 1: and moldering, their job function long expired. Amidst the yells
Speaker 1: and footsteps stampeding around the decks, families called for their
Speaker 1: loved ones, so began a brutal accounting for as they
Speaker 1: gathered their flocks in preparation for what was yet to come.
Speaker 1: The ship was barely passing East ninety seventh Street when
Speaker 1: folks on shore spotted the flames, and then the passengers
Speaker 1: started tumbling. The people on land watched in horror as
Speaker 1: passengers began jumping overboard, and due to the heavy clothes
Speaker 1: of the day and many of them lacking swimming experience,
Speaker 1: they were bobbing, screaming, and grappling in the current that
Speaker 1: was working hard to pull them under and away. People
Speaker 1: at the docks began screaming to the captain, begging him
Speaker 1: to turn the boat inward and head to shore. The
Speaker 1: distance was short enough that he possibly could have made it.
Speaker 1: Captain von Shake made a different decision, though, to take
Speaker 1: his chances and gun the Slocum further up the river.
Speaker 1: He feared that turning her quickly at an angle perpendicular
Speaker 1: to the current would break her steering mechanism. He set
Speaker 1: his sights on the docks at East one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty fourth Street, but before he could get the Slocum there,
Speaker 1: he was waved off by a tugboat captain, who feared
Speaker 1: that the flames would endanger the shipyard, so Captain von
Speaker 1: Shake continued on for another mile, hoping to ground the
Speaker 1: ship on North Brother Island. This calculation ultimately fed the flames.
Speaker 1: Because fire needs oxygen, the ship's speed and the day's
Speaker 1: wind only encouraged the blaze, which was quickly turning the
Speaker 1: paddle boat into a floating inferno. Mothers tossed their children
Speaker 1: into the waves and followed in after them. Some held
Speaker 1: each other on their way down. The remaining passenger huddled
Speaker 1: together in the hopes that they could safely reach land
Speaker 1: if they held out long enough. In time, the middle
Speaker 1: deck collapsed, plunging everyone gathered there down into the fire.
Speaker 1: It said that in all of this a woman gave birth.
Speaker 1: Wanting to save herself and her newborn baby, she pitched
Speaker 1: herself and the infant into the churning waters below, never
Speaker 1: to surface alive. The doctors and patients of North Brother
Speaker 1: Island expected their day to come and go with the
Speaker 1: same sense of isolation as any other. It was a
Speaker 1: place where the sick were sent to quarantine, stashed away
Speaker 1: from the general populace of New York City. You can
Speaker 1: imagine their surprise then, when they found themselves with an
Speaker 1: unexpected visitor. Captain Van Shak had grounded the burning slocum
Speaker 1: twenty five feet from shore. Nurses ran to intercept the
Speaker 1: boat and her passengers. They dove the waves, pulling whoever
Speaker 1: languished there to safety, but they couldn't board the slocum herself,
Speaker 1: for the heat was blistering and unbearable. A Mary McCann,
Speaker 1: a seventeen year old Irish immigrant, was recovering at the
Speaker 1: hospital and just shy of receiving her clean bill of
Speaker 1: health like everyone else on the island. She responded to
Speaker 1: the emergency whistle and found herself running towards the fire.
Speaker 1: She threw off her shawl and braced herself for the
Speaker 1: cold water. She was able to pull a baby from
Speaker 1: the waves and six more children before collapsing herself. The
Speaker 1: tugboats followed in the Slocum's wake, pulling survivors and dead
Speaker 1: alike from the waters. The beach was soon strewn over
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty bodies laid out peacefully side by side.
Speaker 1: The rescuers watched as the slocum finally fully submerged around noon,
Speaker 1: only two hours since its journey had begun. Bodies washed ashore.
Speaker 1: For days following the disaster, they appeared down the lank
Speaker 1: of the river, accounting for some of the one thousand
Speaker 1: and twenty one lives that were lost in the slocan's wake.
Speaker 1: The city watched in horror as thousands of people rushed
Speaker 1: to the east twenty third Street Pier, which was deputized
Speaker 1: as a temporary more open coffins, left the bodies on
Speaker 1: full display. Some of those who had died were readily identifiable,
Speaker 1: some were completely bloated, some charred beyond recognition. Men left factories, shops,
Speaker 1: and docks in droves to find out if their mothers, sisters,
Speaker 1: wives and children had survived. Those who couldn't be identified
Speaker 1: were buried together in a mass grave. In the days
Speaker 1: after the disaster, Klein Deutschland was a veritable ghost town,
Speaker 1: save for the constant parade of funeral carriages and processions.
Speaker 1: It said that the church bells rang almost constantly. Over
Speaker 1: six hundred families lost at least one person. For other survivors,
Speaker 1: their entire families were gone. I say survivors, but for
Speaker 1: those who were left behind, there was so little life left.
Speaker 1: The rest of the city was in an uproar. Everyone
Speaker 1: wanted to know how this happened and who to blame.
Speaker 1: There were two targets to aim their vitriol at the
Speaker 1: Knickerbocker Company, the outfit that owned the ship, and Captain
Speaker 1: Von Shaik, who was left physically disabled and blind from
Speaker 1: the tragedy, having barely escaped. It was said that he
Speaker 1: was the last person to abandon ship. A formal coroner's
Speaker 1: inquest began on June twentieth of nineteen oh four and
Speaker 1: featured eight days of testimony from surviving passengers, crew members, rescuers,
Speaker 1: and the captain. And while it's true that Van Shaik
Speaker 1: was responsible for piloting the ship, it was the Knickerbocker
Speaker 1: Company that was responsible for its upkeep and repairs. They
Speaker 1: were quick to point fingers back at the captain, smitting
Speaker 1: so very suspicious looking repair receipts to the court. Rumors
Speaker 1: of corruption and bribery in the ranks swirled, feeding the
Speaker 1: public's frenzy and outcry for justice, and Captain Von Shake
Speaker 1: and the company were both found guilty of manslaughter, but
Speaker 1: only Von Shak was brought to trial. It took seventeen
Speaker 1: days and Von Shake was found guilty once again. He
Speaker 1: went on to serve three years of his ten year
Speaker 1: sentence and was later pardoned by President William Taft. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: the steamboat industry drastically overhauled the necessary safety and inspection regulations.
Speaker 1: There would be no happy ending for Klein Deutschland. The
Speaker 1: community never recovered. It saw a mass exodus and a
Speaker 1: spade of suicides in those who remained. Two years later,
Speaker 1: a small child stood in Tompkins Square Park, surrounded by
Speaker 1: her remaining friends and family. She had been aboard the
Speaker 1: boat that summer's day and has chosen as the person
Speaker 1: to tug the draping off the new General Slocum Memorial Fountain.
Speaker 1: It was a small gesture that sought to recognize an
Speaker 1: incalculable tragedy. The fabric of the Kleindutchland community had burned
Speaker 1: up in the fire, and perhaps this child couldn't remember it,
Speaker 1: but she would go on to hear stories of that
Speaker 1: fateful day. There was no way to reconcile what had
Speaker 1: happened to her family and friends, but there was hope
Speaker 1: that she would be able to carry on without many
Speaker 1: of them. After all, she had no other choice. New
Speaker 1: York City continued to be haunted by the General Slocum,
Speaker 1: not just because of what had happened, but because of
Speaker 1: what still floated in their harbor. There floated the General
Speaker 1: Slocum sister ship, the Grand Republic, which was nearly identical.
Speaker 1: It was very common to have a fleet of identical ships,
Speaker 1: and the Knickerbocker Company did just that. You can imagine
Speaker 1: the jolt New Yorkers felt when they saw her placidly
Speaker 1: paddling along, a striking reminder of what and who was
Speaker 1: still lost beneath the waters. The Grand Republic was intensely
Speaker 1: scrutinized in the wake of the disaster, and even still
Speaker 1: the boat operated as planned, or at least tried to.
Speaker 1: It said that a week after the Slocum sank, only
Speaker 1: a fourth that the Grand Republic's passengers showed up to
Speaker 1: make good on their weekend plans. It was yet another
Speaker 1: church outing. Wanting to cut their losses, the Knickerbocker Company
Speaker 1: decided to sell the Grand Republic, and just four days
Speaker 1: after the sale, the boat crashed into another off the
Speaker 1: coast of Coney Island. Five hundred passengers were aboard the ship,
Speaker 1: and while there were no fatalities, they were dismayed to
Speaker 1: find similarly rotting life preservers. Eventually the boat was surrendered
Speaker 1: for government inspection. Her capacity was lower, and her owners
Speaker 1: began losing even more money. More of accidents would follow,
Speaker 1: though thankfully none resulted in death. Even still, it seemed
Speaker 1: that riding the paddle boats was a risky business, though
Speaker 1: one that passengers still deemed necessary for their day to
Speaker 1: day lives. After several years of largely quiet and uninterrupted service,
Speaker 1: the Grand Republic went down the same way her sistership had.
Speaker 1: She was taken by fire. On April twenty sixth of
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty four. A fire broke out late into the
Speaker 1: night while she was docked. Thirty men were asleep on board,
Speaker 1: but all awoke in time to flee. She sank into
Speaker 1: the Hudson River that night, and despite the association with
Speaker 1: the General Slocum and the accidents, she went to her
Speaker 1: own watery grave with some dignity still intact. The New
Speaker 1: York Times stated, certainly the Grand Republic was a grand
Speaker 1: success as an excursion boat. There's more to this story.
Speaker 1: Stick around after this brief sponsor break to hear all
Speaker 1: about it. On September eleventh of two thousand one, all
Speaker 1: of New York City shut down in the city. That day,
Speaker 1: two planes creened across the skies and into infamy. Lives ended,
Speaker 1: and the world changed. For those on the ground that day,
Speaker 1: there was no way to get into the city, and
Speaker 1: there were very few ways out. The subway stopped, the
Speaker 1: bridges closed, but the water was open. Gregg Freydis was
Speaker 1: a charterboat captain in New York for the summer, and
Speaker 1: on that blue Bird morning, after a very late night,
Speaker 1: he ambled over to his local coffee shop. As he
Speaker 1: strolled in, he took a look at the television and
Speaker 1: saw that he had missed something extraordinary. On the news
Speaker 1: was a replay of a plane crashing into the World
Speaker 1: Trade Center. Like many people that day, he stood stunned.
Speaker 1: But what was he seeing? How could this be happening?
Speaker 1: Surely an accident, of course, that's what many thought until
Speaker 1: the second plane hit. We know how this story goes.
Speaker 1: But then Gregg, like many New Yorkers that day, did
Speaker 1: what he had to do. He jumped into action. He
Speaker 1: didn't know exactly what was needed from him, but he
Speaker 1: was going to do what he knew how he headed
Speaker 1: back to his boat yard. He was one of the
Speaker 1: many boat captains who appeared that morning, and armed with
Speaker 1: a fierce loyalty for their home and a lot of gumption.
Speaker 1: In what seemed like no time at all, they were
Speaker 1: met by thousands of people who had migrated to the
Speaker 1: water line trying to flee Lower Manhattans smoke and smolder,
Speaker 1: and some were old, some were young, some were bleeding.
Speaker 1: Some held their pets and the ash rained down. They
Speaker 1: stood shoulder to shoulder on the shore line they wanted off.
Speaker 1: The boatmen had the benefit of having keeys and knowing
Speaker 1: how to drive. By mid morning, the Coast Guard made
Speaker 1: the official call. They asked that all boats and all
Speaker 1: captains available helped with an immediate evacuation effort, and soon
Speaker 1: a veritable army of a hundred and thirty watercraft appeared
Speaker 1: on the horizon of Lower Manhattan ready to help. There
Speaker 1: were troops of ferries and tugboats, fishing boats and multimillion
Speaker 1: dollar pleasure yachts and sightseeing ships and emergency service vehicles.
Speaker 1: The Staten Island Ferry alone took more than fifty thousand
Speaker 1: people across the river. They docked two waiting ambulances from
Speaker 1: Ellice Island to Brooklyn to New Jersey, letting folks disembark
Speaker 1: while loading up on supplies to bring back to emergency
Speaker 1: efforts in Manhattan. At one point, among an order for
Speaker 1: water bottles, boxygen, and food, there was a request for
Speaker 1: twenty thousand body bags. On that day and in the
Speaker 1: ones that followed, and his compatriots pulled off the largest
Speaker 1: water evacuation in history. It's since been dubbed the nine
Speaker 1: to eleven boat Lift. That day, nearly half a million
Speaker 1: people were ferried to safety. What was also remarkable about
Speaker 1: the effort, which was nothing short of heroic, is that
Speaker 1: not only did they do this without a plan, they
Speaker 1: did it amidst utter and complete chaos. It was their
Speaker 1: gift to the city, this herculean effort that's sometimes been
Speaker 1: overlooked in the telling of the nine to eleven story.
Speaker 1: But without a doubt, those who remember pulling away from
Speaker 1: the shoreline that day, knowing that their lives would never
Speaker 1: be the same, they were thankful to those boat captains
Speaker 1: and the waters that ferried them to safety. American Shadows
Speaker 1: as hosted by Lauren Vogelbaum. This episode was written by
Speaker 1: Robin Miniter, researched by Ali Steed, and produced by Miranda
Speaker 1: Hawkins and Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams,
Speaker 1: and Matt Frederick. To learn more about the show, visit
Speaker 1: grimmanmile dot com. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.