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Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to Club Sha Shay. I'm your host, Shay Sharp,

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Speaker 1: also known as Shannon Sharp from my very first podcast,

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Speaker 1: there was no question who my very first guest was

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Speaker 1: going to be. It's the guy that's inspired me, that

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Speaker 1: made me the person that I became today, being on

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Speaker 1: the field and off. He made me a better sports player,

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Speaker 1: He made me a better man, He made me a

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Speaker 1: better father, he made me a better TV personality. So

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Speaker 1: he really doesn't need any introduction, but I give him

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Speaker 1: one anywhere. My brother Stirley Sharp all my life and

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Speaker 1: grinding all my life, sacrifice, hustle back price. One slice

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Speaker 1: got the bron dice swath all my life. I've been

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Speaker 1: grinding in all my life, us all my life and

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Speaker 1: running all my life, sacrifice, hustle back price. One slice

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Speaker 1: got the brother dice to swathe all my life. I've

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Speaker 1: been grinding in all my life. Bro, how you doing this? Hey?

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Speaker 1: Give me a little update. What's going on with you?

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Speaker 1: Where are you right in nine life? What's going on

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Speaker 1: with you? Beautiful Columbia, South Carolina is hot, human, sticky outside,

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Speaker 1: So I'm just with there. You know, with COVID nineteen,

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Speaker 1: I don't get a chance to play any golf on

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Speaker 1: the road. So I'm just enjoying playing. I'm playing here

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Speaker 1: at the house with my friends, playing your home course. Huh, yes, sir,

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Speaker 1: let me. I think the thing, uh, you and I

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Speaker 1: talk when we talk often, and I think the biggest

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Speaker 1: thing that we get is people like, man, when your

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Speaker 1: brothers on television and he's telling these stories, how much

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Speaker 1: of that is real? How much of that is fiction?

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Speaker 1: How much is him embellishing? So let's just start give

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Speaker 1: us a little background. I because people, because when I

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Speaker 1: run into people, people don't think I'm telling the truth.

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Speaker 1: Because people say, man, you're talking like you grew up

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Speaker 1: in the forties and the fifties. You and you you

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Speaker 1: grew up in the you know, late sixties, seventies and eighties.

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Speaker 1: So how can you say when you're eating this and

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Speaker 1: how you live. Give the people a little background on

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Speaker 1: how we grew up in Rule South Georgia. Well, we

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Speaker 1: were we grew up in well basically in the sixties,

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Speaker 1: seventies and eighties, but we were definitely raised old school

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Speaker 1: thirty forties and fifties. You know, it was a time

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Speaker 1: that that's just what we knew. And so when you

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Speaker 1: repeat things that our grandmother or grandfather, uh said, it's

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Speaker 1: actually kind of comical because it takes you, you know,

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Speaker 1: even in twenty twenty. It takes you back to nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy four, it takes you back to nineteen seventy nine,

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Speaker 1: it takes you back to nineteen eighty three. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I tell people all the time, I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Barnie Porter or Mary Porter definitely said it. And I'm

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Speaker 1: just shocked that he remembered because he was he's younger

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Speaker 1: than me. I'm shocked he remember and he's repeating. I

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Speaker 1: think that's the biggest thing. Becauseliby, our oldest sister, we

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Speaker 1: call the liber real name, and Cheryl we call the

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Speaker 1: Libby a book. You and I both have dropped Libby

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Speaker 1: basically called a book. Now, if we Shanna, how do

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Speaker 1: you remember that when you were I'm eight years younger

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Speaker 1: than she is. I'm three years younger than you. You're

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Speaker 1: five years younger than she is, and she's been how

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Speaker 1: do you remember that? And when I tell people, I

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Speaker 1: can remember everything that my grandfather ever said in my presence,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you every time Granted was upset at

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Speaker 1: me and I lived and I was forty three when

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Speaker 1: she passed. I can remember that stuff because it was

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Speaker 1: so impactful on me. You know. It's one of those

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Speaker 1: things that and I tell people that I try to

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Speaker 1: get people to understand this all the time about memories,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, what you remember about my playing career

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Speaker 1: and what I remember about my playing career is totally different,

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Speaker 1: and so what you remember is I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: in hindsight, once we left Glenville, you know, to go

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Speaker 1: to college and to go on to the NFL, it

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Speaker 1: was amazing at how many instances or situations we found

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Speaker 1: ourselves in where we could hear our grandmother or grandfather's

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Speaker 1: voice in our heads. So while it may seem surprising

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Speaker 1: to a lot of people, I'm not surprised because Mary

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Speaker 1: and Barney said a lot of profound things in ways

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Speaker 1: that weren't just latently teachable, Like when you're you know,

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Speaker 1: we would be riding in the car with him and

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Speaker 1: we would see a car on the side of the

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Speaker 1: road and he would say that car has not enough

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Speaker 1: has too many drivers and not enough fixers. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it took me forever to realize that he was saying

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Speaker 1: that the only person in charge of fixing that car

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Speaker 1: is the driver. The rest of the passengers don't care

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Speaker 1: whether he gets it fixed or not, because they just

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Speaker 1: don't get with another friend. So he just made it.

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Speaker 1: Had a habit of saying things that were teachable moments

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Speaker 1: to us that may not be teachable to other people

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Speaker 1: who may have heard. Did you think at the time,

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Speaker 1: because then I tell people and we don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: talk about this a whole lot. My grandfather was in

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Speaker 1: the World War Two. He got drafted to World War Two.

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Speaker 1: Although he didn't go overseas and fight, he was there

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Speaker 1: and he was very militaristic. He was very disciplined. He

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Speaker 1: was it was very matter of fact. You did not

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Speaker 1: have to assume where you filled with Barney Jordan. You

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Speaker 1: did not have to food what he was thinking. He

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Speaker 1: told you exactly what he was thinking at the time.

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Speaker 1: You were going through that. Like I said, had you

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Speaker 1: know my papa passed the nineteen seventy seven You were twelve,

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Speaker 1: about to be twelve. I was eight, about to be

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Speaker 1: about to be nine. Did you think at the time that, man,

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Speaker 1: this joke a really tough on. We we just leaving

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Speaker 1: just kids. We're not grown in No, that was all

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Speaker 1: we knew. Remember, we didn't go spend time at other

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Speaker 1: friends houses. We didn't get a chance to see how

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Speaker 1: the other family dynamic of our friends worked. We we

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Speaker 1: only were around Barty Porter, who was ahead of our

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Speaker 1: family and our aunts and uncles, and so basically everybody

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Speaker 1: was like him, and so it was interesting that we

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Speaker 1: it was. It was definitely not a democracy. It was

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Speaker 1: definitely a dictatorship. And but the thing about being in

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Speaker 1: that situation is we didn't know anything different. So you know,

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Speaker 1: if he said, uh, if he said, you know, I

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Speaker 1: really wish I could get this trash out of here,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't basically saying he would hope somebody would find

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Speaker 1: it in themselves to go take it out. Whoever heard

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Speaker 1: his voice, he wanted to trash, take it out, and

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Speaker 1: he wanted to take it out right then. So no,

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Speaker 1: I tell you what I said. You know, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: hard growing up that way because that was the only

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Speaker 1: way we knew did when people when I tell people

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Speaker 1: how we lived in the thousand Square flats end the

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Speaker 1: block home, yea, Hey, Libby wish you would stop telling

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Speaker 1: that story too. He gets. Buck gets very upset when

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Speaker 1: we tell the story about the thousand Square flots end

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Speaker 1: the block home with north indoor plumbing attending roof that

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Speaker 1: you could actually lay on your back and you could

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Speaker 1: see the sky from the bed. It is correct, and

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Speaker 1: I told the story in my Hall of Fame speech.

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Speaker 1: But growing up in that environment, what because when I

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Speaker 1: also spa you know, when we tell, when I tell people,

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Speaker 1: I never spent the night at a friend's house, I

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Speaker 1: rest night at a family member's house, and people can't believe. Correct,

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Speaker 1: And that the first time I stayed away from home,

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Speaker 1: I went to four age camp that at Cherokee, I

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Speaker 1: think it was, Yeah, I think then. God, I was

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Speaker 1: a senior. It was a rock eagle, rocky rock eagle. Ye,

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Speaker 1: But I couldn't remember the Cherokee tribe. I couldn't remember

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Speaker 1: what it was because it was so long ago. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: the thing is is when you grow up that way

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Speaker 1: and that's the only way, you know, you don't have

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Speaker 1: anything to compare it too, because yeah, we saw our

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Speaker 1: friends every day at school and some at church, but

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Speaker 1: you had nothing to compare it too. So guess what

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Speaker 1: it was our norm and our norm was you know what, God,

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Speaker 1: I wish the roof didn't leak, you know, I wish

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Speaker 1: we didn't have to get up, you know, Monday through

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Speaker 1: Sunday and you know, herd hogs or pick tobacco or

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Speaker 1: grind feed or you know, I wish we didn't, but

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Speaker 1: that's what we knew. And you know, you and I

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Speaker 1: used to talk all the time about the only thing

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Speaker 1: we wanted to do was play football, and we knew

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Speaker 1: we were gonna never get the chance to play football

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Speaker 1: because we were always working. So when you know that's

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Speaker 1: all you know, there is no I'm gonna make it

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Speaker 1: better because you're gonna make it better. How all you

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Speaker 1: know is farming? So that was all we knew. Did

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Speaker 1: you think when we will work in the hours? And

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Speaker 1: I always used the term can't they can't And people

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Speaker 1: like what they can't mean? Can you explain the people

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Speaker 1: that's gonna be watching this? What can't can't you see

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Speaker 1: what you're working from the time you can't see when

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Speaker 1: you get up until you can't see at night, it's

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Speaker 1: it's dark to dark, and it's it. The job is

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Speaker 1: never done. It's just you got to go home and

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Speaker 1: get some sleep. It's not like you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: nine to five or I finished my work. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: get off early. We never got off early. There was

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Speaker 1: no such thing. Is you know what, we're finished picking

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Speaker 1: this tobacco, and you know what we're gonna do. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna take the rest of the day off now that

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Speaker 1: that happened. So but like I said, it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's easy in hindsight to go back and say how

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Speaker 1: tough we had it. And it's easy in hindsight to

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Speaker 1: try and make our upbringing so much different from everyone

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Speaker 1: else by going you know, living in a house that

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Speaker 1: didn't have running water, rain, you know, looking at the

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Speaker 1: stuff we can lay in bed and watch the sun rise,

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. You know what it did. It

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Speaker 1: didn't make us stronger. It just made us. We were like,

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Speaker 1: if it was to be, we were gonna have to do.

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Speaker 1: And we were always like that from our playing days.

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Speaker 1: Is hey, we were great teammates. I'd like to think,

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Speaker 1: but if there's an opportunity to make a play, coach,

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Speaker 1: put it on me, because I can accept these success

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Speaker 1: but I can also accept the failure if it doesn't

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Speaker 1: go our way. And I think that's strictly because of

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Speaker 1: how we were brought up. And I say this to people,

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Speaker 1: and I used to say it to young people when

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Speaker 1: I spoke more all the time. It ain't by accident

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Speaker 1: that two guys from Glenville, Georgia not only graduating from

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Speaker 1: college but made it to the NFL. That ain't by accident.

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Speaker 1: But it's not by design either. I mean, I just

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Speaker 1: think that you know, and I tell people, you learn

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Speaker 1: a lot about guys if you tell me how they

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Speaker 1: were raised and tell me what their experiences are, I

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Speaker 1: could tell you who they are and how we were raised.

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Speaker 1: We had similar experiences. From the time we left Glenville

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Speaker 1: until the time you got into television. Our lives were

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Speaker 1: pretty much mirror images of each other, even though we're

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Speaker 1: you know, we were three years apart in age, but

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Speaker 1: we're two years apart in athletics. When give people some

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Speaker 1: background of kind of some of the jobs that you

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Speaker 1: and I had when we were growing up, because I

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Speaker 1: think the thing is because a lot of times, like

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Speaker 1: I said, when I'm on television, and people automatically assume, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you get on television, you're embellishing it. You're embellishing

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Speaker 1: make yourself look good, yea six seven years old. So

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Speaker 1: give the people a little backdrop of kind of some

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Speaker 1: of the jobs you and I had well, we had

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Speaker 1: a family. Remember it was our grandmother, grandfather, me and

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Speaker 1: our sister, not to mention our aunt Jane, our aunt Shermandane,

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Speaker 1: our aunt Gladys and sometimes are at Marionelle living in

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Speaker 1: that thousand foot center black house too. It wasn't like

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of room, but our jobs. Dietrich,

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Speaker 1: our nephew was there. So guess what. It wasn't like

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Speaker 1: we had chores and we could finish our chores. We

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Speaker 1: definitely had to go to school in church. Those two

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Speaker 1: things were months we were at school. We were at church.

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Speaker 1: But then there was the tobacco picking and the uh

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Speaker 1: you know, planting my grandmother's garden. There's also the moving

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Speaker 1: and the situating of the hogs that we had, grinding

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Speaker 1: of the feed. So when hogs got out, it wasn't like,

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Speaker 1: you know, hey we got we lost the hog. Oh well,

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Speaker 1: we got to go search for it. So we were

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Speaker 1: going through hell in high water in situations where I

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Speaker 1: am to this day, I am still amazed that none

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Speaker 1: of us ever got bit by a snake and none

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Speaker 1: of us ever died because of snake by Because I

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Speaker 1: can remember our times wrapping our hands around tobacco stocks,

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Speaker 1: and there'll be eight foot rattlesnake wrapped under sitting under

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Speaker 1: a leaf. Or we were walking through swamps in the

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Speaker 1: day of summer and never got bit by moccason. I'm amazed,

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Speaker 1: but we had and not to mention. And I'll talk

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Speaker 1: just about you and I when we were in high

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Speaker 1: Schoolhen I was in high school, you would have been

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Speaker 1: in middle school. We would get up and go to school,

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Speaker 1: go and go to practice, go home, and as soon

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Speaker 1: as we got home from practice, we had to get

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Speaker 1: in Earl Bacon or our uncle James's truck to go

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Speaker 1: catch chickens where we were making a dollar a thousand,

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Speaker 1: and we would you know, it's hard to because how

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Speaker 1: much were we making? How much money do? We were

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Speaker 1: making a dollar a thousand, So for every thousand chickens

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Speaker 1: that were in that house, each individual got paid one dollar.

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Speaker 1: So imagine working from eleven to two catching uh, fourteen

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Speaker 1: thousand chickens you made fourteen dollars or ten thousand chickens

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Speaker 1: you made ten dollars. And so you get home at

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Speaker 1: three and you had to clean yourself up, try to

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Speaker 1: get as much sleep as you can because seven o'clock

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Speaker 1: and on the way to school was happening the next day.

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Speaker 1: So and like I said, as tough as it seems

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Speaker 1: or sounds now, wasn't that bad back then, because guess

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Speaker 1: what we we got to be with our friends or

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Speaker 1: our cousins. We were making money, so it was a

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Speaker 1: good deal for us. Well, the school was the easy part.

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Speaker 1: It was the summer when you had to work in

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Speaker 1: tobacco and then you come home. Remember we would come home.

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Speaker 1: Not only did we play during the lunch break, we

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Speaker 1: would eat play basketball. Grand like, boy, come in here,

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Speaker 1: y'all would have a heat stroke and I'm like, old on,

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Speaker 1: you made it too hot to play basketball, But it's

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Speaker 1: not too hot to work in the field. And we

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Speaker 1: were in a long sleeve shirt. We were in a

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Speaker 1: long sleeve shirt and blue jeans in the field. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't like we were dressing cool. We got a long

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Speaker 1: sleeve shirt and blue jeans on dressing in that tobacco field.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it was Those were some definitely different times

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Speaker 1: for us growing up, but I definitely believe it definitely

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Speaker 1: helped shape how we were from the time we left

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Speaker 1: Glennville until the time we got to television. About to

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Speaker 1: tell a story about how like we were working to

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Speaker 1: the baccafield and then we would play and then we

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Speaker 1: had to get ready to get on that chicken truck

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Speaker 1: that night. So we were working and I remember, I

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Speaker 1: remember because you at the time, I was making five

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Speaker 1: bucks a day. You remember, you remember when I told

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Speaker 1: Granny I was making five bucks a day. Hold on

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Speaker 1: meld Granny that Landing and Lanta is our first cousin.

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Speaker 1: And Shannon did was played. What did Granny tell me

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Speaker 1: if he making five bucks a day, it's too much?

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Speaker 1: She said it was too much money. And I agree

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Speaker 1: because all you and Landing were buying were diet coaks

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Speaker 1: and honey bulls. Anyway, oh you okay, let's tell a story.

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Speaker 1: Let's tell the story. Mister Joe who our boss at

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Speaker 1: the time, Joe Tatum, he just passed recently. He set

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Speaker 1: us up a line of credit at the at the

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Speaker 1: convenience at a convenience store. Yeah, and so we could

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Speaker 1: go in there and get anything we want on credit.

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Speaker 1: Knowing that mister Joe was gonna bring us in there,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna cash our check and we can pay. So

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Speaker 1: when mister Joe said he was going going to the

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Speaker 1: going to the town, going to the store. What would

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Speaker 1: I always get? I was probably six and seven years

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Speaker 1: or three hundred barnes, three hundred and three coats three.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like he couldn't get one at one. Joe,

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Speaker 1: bring me three hundred barns and three coca colas every

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Speaker 1: three times he had to go. It was three and three.

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Speaker 1: It was it was three. It was three and three,

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Speaker 1: but three and three. But do you remember also, mister Joel,

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Speaker 1: he had he had a farm and he had cattle

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Speaker 1: and cattle eat. Hey, somebody had to bail that. Hey,

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Speaker 1: mister Joel had a big farm. He had us, he

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Speaker 1: had watermelons. Uh, we had brought a second ar. He

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Speaker 1: had oprah, he had tomato us. We had to pick

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Speaker 1: up peacms for the dash. That's correct. We had a

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Speaker 1: lot of jobs. And the thing was is we would

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Speaker 1: have done even more just to put money in our

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Speaker 1: pockets to lessen the load on granting. At the time,

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Speaker 1: she was the only breadwinner for the most part in

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Speaker 1: the house or in living and so we would have

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Speaker 1: done anything to buy our own clothes, buy our own shoes,

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Speaker 1: by our own basketball or basketball shoes, football shoes, track shoes.

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Speaker 1: We would have done just about any and everything. And

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Speaker 1: as you remember, I mean there were sometimes during the

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Speaker 1: summer we would have you know, training camp basically, well

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Speaker 1: we were practicing at night that we had to make

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Speaker 1: a decision whether we were going to practice or we

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Speaker 1: were going to catch chicken because if we didn't go

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Speaker 1: make money, we didn't have any money for the away

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Speaker 1: games or to eat before games and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: So and I don't like telling the story because it's

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Speaker 1: hard to understand and to nowaday and age. But but

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Speaker 1: you touched on Joe and miss you know, Miss joe

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Speaker 1: Anne just passed about a month ago, Joe Tatum and

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Speaker 1: Miss joe Anne. And I say this to people all

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Speaker 1: the time. I think we have a better understanding of

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Speaker 1: white people and race because of how Joe, Joe Anne

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00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 1: Tiny and their family treated us. Because we could have

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Speaker 1: gone either way, but the way the Tatum brothers treated

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Speaker 1: us and their families, UH, definitely made sure that I

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00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,959
Speaker 1: understood that all white people weren't evil. That made me

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00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,159
Speaker 1: understood that. You know what, when you get to know

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00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,680
Speaker 1: someone is easier to get understanding from that person. So

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00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,160
Speaker 1: I say, in this, you know, and this difficult racial

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Speaker 1: time that we live in, I feel a certain way

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Speaker 1: about it because of our relationship and experiences with definitely

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Speaker 1: mister Joe and Miss joe Anne Tatum. When did you

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Speaker 1: know you were good at sports? I never knew. I

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00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 1: never really knew that I was good at it, because

341
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,840
Speaker 1: remember the first time I ever touched a football in

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00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,159
Speaker 1: an organized game, I was on kickoff return. I ran

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00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 1: it back for a touchdown. It got called back and

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00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,959
Speaker 1: the team had to rekick it. They kicked it off

345
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 1: and I ran it back for a touchdown. But I

346
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,640
Speaker 1: just why did the first to tell the story why

347
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,639
Speaker 1: the first touchdown I got called back celebrated before I

348
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,919
Speaker 1: got in the ear zone, and so it was a

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00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 1: fifteen yard penalty and the rekick, And so when they

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00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 1: kicked it off again, I ran it back for a touchdown.

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00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,879
Speaker 1: And I was too tired to celebrate, or I might

352
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:43,120
Speaker 1: have gotten out a call back. But I never really

353
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,959
Speaker 1: looked at myself being good. I always looked at it

354
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 1: like I looked at riding a tractor, or picking tobacco,

355
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,800
Speaker 1: or shelling peas or you know, cutting onions. There's a

356
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,160
Speaker 1: job to do, and I got this amount of time

357
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Speaker 1: to do it. And I did not play high football

358
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 1: to go to college. I played high school football because

359
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,720
Speaker 1: I wanted to play high school football. I didn't play

360
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,159
Speaker 1: college football to go to the NFL. I played college

361
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 1: football because I wanted to play college football. And I

362
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 1: did those two high school and college until it was

363
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 1: time to move on. And when I finished with college,

364
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 1: it was time to move on. And you were with

365
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,159
Speaker 1: me when I got drafted, and you were highly disappointed.

366
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 1: I might tell America he was highly disappointed that the

367
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 1: Green Bay Packers drafted me because he didn't want me

368
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 1: to go to Green Bay because I wasn't gonna win

369
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 1: any games and they weren't any good. Instead of looking

370
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,920
Speaker 1: at it as hey, I got drafted in the first

371
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 1: round going to Green Bay, but I just looked at

372
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 1: it as I wanted to play. That's the only thing

373
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,880
Speaker 1: in my life I've ever wanted to do was play football.

374
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,600
Speaker 1: I didn't have a contingency plan, you know, I if

375
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,199
Speaker 1: I go to college and I don't make it, then

376
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 1: I'm going to open up a business. To know. It

377
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: was just I'm going to college to play football, and

378
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 1: whatever happens after that, I'll attack that the same way

379
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: I attacked playing football. Well. I played football because I

380
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 1: thought if I played football, that would get me. But football,

381
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 1: you still go cutting the grass. You give stuff to do,

382
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,440
Speaker 1: so it didn't getting me out of anything. All it

383
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 1: did would give me an opportunity to get involved in

384
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,680
Speaker 1: an activity, but I still had work to do what

385
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: I got home. Since we're airing all our dirty laundry,

386
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 1: I've been figured with us what tell America as much

387
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 1: as we can remember, our competition before we started playing

388
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,400
Speaker 1: organized sports was who could cut the grass the fastest.

389
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we got to push in lawnboard and we're

390
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: trying to see who could cut the grass the fastest

391
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 1: and the best. That was our competition. And so we

392
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 1: basically learned competition through you and I cutting the grass,

393
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,679
Speaker 1: or the fourth Sunday, second Sunday get togethers with our

394
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: cousins where we divided up into teams and did whatever,

395
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: whether it's basketball or softball or whatever the case. Ray, Greg,

396
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 1: gracious running back flips. You remember when you left to

397
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 1: go when you left to go to South Carolina, the

398
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,440
Speaker 1: road that we lived on was still dirt. Yes no no, no, no,

399
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,920
Speaker 1: no no no. Because remember our grandfather said he would

400
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: never lived to see this road paid and he died

401
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 1: and it as a matter of fact, when they brought

402
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 1: his body by the house. It was paid. It was

403
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: paid you sure, yes, But if I'm sure, because that

404
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 1: was the biggest thing is he said, I will never

405
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 1: live to see this road pay and he didn't. I'm

406
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna disagree with it. And you know,

407
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 1: I don't like to disagree with you, but I'm gonna

408
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 1: have to disagree because you remember when my senior year, obviously,

409
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,959
Speaker 1: when you were already gone, the bus didn't come by

410
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 1: the house. I had to walk to the end of

411
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: the road. Yes, And in the process of me walking

412
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: to the end of the rod, I walked on the

413
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 1: side of the role because the role wasn't paid. I'm

414
00:21:55,080 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 1: almost I'm almost certain that it was definitely done before well,

415
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: it was done at before we got we got a

416
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 1: little we we got a little way going back, all right,

417
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 1: all right, okay, what did Obviously when Papa died in

418
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, the dominant male figure, the head of

419
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 1: our family was gone. Okay, now you're the dominant male

420
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: boy in the house for me, we got a little brother.

421
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: So what what was going through your mind about how

422
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: do I make sure I'm the man of the house

423
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: but also make sure that I take care of my

424
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,479
Speaker 1: little brother. I knew you were watching, and we learned

425
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 1: a lot of what we learned. Remember, we learned how

426
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: to drive by watching other people drive, So it was

427
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: easy for us to drive when it was our turn

428
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: because we've been watching. You know, our grandfather would tell

429
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: us to get on this tractor and follow him and

430
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: don't hear anything. And you're like, wait, what you've been

431
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: watching me. You should know how to do it. Really,

432
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 1: so that's how it's stuck. Yeah, he didn't tell you how.

433
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: He didn't tell you about the gears, everything like that.

434
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: He that you watched me long enough you should be

435
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,239
Speaker 1: able to do it. Never showed you how to do

436
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: things you weren't learned by watching. The thing I thought,

437
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: Shanham was this is that it wasn't that that I

438
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: didn't know right from Rome. It wasn't that I needed

439
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: to step up and say, okay, I'm not a man

440
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 1: at the house. It was we always learned by watching.

441
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: And Mary Porter was still in charge. Mary Porter was

442
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: still in charge, and the thing was, let's do everything

443
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: in our power to make sure what she has to

444
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 1: do or say to us is as minimal as possible.

445
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: We're not going to cause her any problems. We're not

446
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: because guess what, we already know what we're supposed to do.

447
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: And so when we got that, and you know, and

448
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 1: I tell people all the time, we got to play

449
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: football because our grandfather backed That's how we got to play.

450
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: Because other than that, we would have never had a

451
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 1: chance to play because we would have still had to

452
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: work on the farm and he made abundant because we

453
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: would yeah, broke his column, broke his leg. Yeah, so

454
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: we would never get to play because his son's got hurt.

455
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: So we weren't gonna ever get a chance to play.

456
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: But I never looked at it as something we needed

457
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: to change or do. I just looked at it as

458
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: I got a job to do. And my job was,

459
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: you know, finished seventh grade, get onto the eighth grade,

460
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: and uh and to that was the So it wasn't

461
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: like it was. And I try not to make this comparison,

462
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: but I do. It's not it's like being a leader.

463
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: Everybody thinks that the team leader is the guy that

464
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: says the profound thing at this time or does the

465
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: profound thing. Sometimes the leader of the team says very

466
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: little and does probably the most. Uh. And I tell

467
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: people all the time, I played with two of the

468
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: best kickers in NFL history, uh and Chris Jackie and

469
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: Max and day House. But they never called a team

470
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: meeting because nobody, nobody's kicker is gonna call a team meeting.

471
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: So I just didn't think there was anything that needed

472
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: to change up for We're gonna get a chance to

473
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: play football and we need to do everything we can

474
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: to light and the load on Mary Ford. Do you remember,

475
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: as you mentioned at once, pap our path, But do

476
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: you remember Papa having a conversation with us and asking

477
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: us what we wanted to do about and he says,

478
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: I don't care what you do, but all I care

479
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: about you finish finished what he told us. Well, I

480
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: mean that that list is long, but because you know,

481
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: he was big on you know, whatever you do, it

482
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: is your life. There's gonna be a lot of lives

483
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: like that, and I you know, this is my life.

484
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: There are many like it, but this one is mine.

485
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 1: And whatever you do, just make sure you do it

486
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: to the best of your ability, or you do your

487
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: job better than anyone else does any thing else. And

488
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: so you know what I in all those conversations where

489
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: he would throw stuff at us. It was just a

490
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: matter of I don't ever want you to do something

491
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 1: looking for someone else to say job well done. When

492
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: you do something, you do it to the point to

493
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: where you look at it and you say you did

494
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: a good job, Which is how you and I learned

495
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 1: to cut the grass and have those conversations. Look at

496
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: how I cut Look during I didn't leave a strand

497
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: standing nowhere. Look at my lines are straight? You know

498
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So it's just a combination of

499
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: watching and I think that's one of the biggest things

500
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: that's missing from today's society is we don't have any

501
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,479
Speaker 1: more apprentice. We don't have people who learned to do

502
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: a job before they get to do the job. Now

503
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: everybody gets the job and you learn on the job.

504
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: But we learned, you know, he was he was the master,

505
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: and we learned pretty much everything we do, say and did,

506
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: we learned from him. I just remember him saying, he says, boys,

507
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 1: I don't care what you become in life, just never

508
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: have to look me in your grandma and to im

509
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: say I'm sorry. And that that stuck with me. So

510
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: no matter what, as long as I didn't have to

511
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: apologize for something that I done. That I because, like

512
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: you said, he was big on personal responsibility. Yeah, you know,

513
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: wrong in direct anyway. So for me, that was the

514
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: whole That was the whole thing. And once he passed

515
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: and people like, well, and I tell people, I like,

516
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: I really never went out in high school because once

517
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: I we got done playing, I came back home because

518
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: because after you had gone to college. So that was

519
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: my whole thing was to make sure I didn't cause

520
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: granny and no problems. Yes, And that was the thing

521
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 1: is I'm like, you know, our job was to make

522
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: her life easier and if she didn't have to worry

523
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: about where we were who I knew we had a game,

524
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: but what time were we coming home? And you know,

525
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: Granny never told us what time to come home. We

526
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: never had a curfew. I'm like I tell people all

527
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: the time, when we wanted to go hunting, we didn't

528
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: have to ask for a gun. We grabbed one and

529
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: went And I mean we had six eight ten to

530
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 1: choose from. We could grab anything from it thirty off

531
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: six to a thirty thirty to a twenty two rifle.

532
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: We didn't have to ask, can I borrowed them. We

533
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: grabbed the gun and head out the door, and you know,

534
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: had the four teens. And what would you think about

535
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: what was unique about all those guns, every last one

536
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: of them was what loaded available available all the time,

537
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 1: every single one of them, from the sixteen shot twenty

538
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: two to the nine shot thirty thirty to the eight

539
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: shot thirty off six when they were in the house,

540
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: every single one of them was loaded. And we never

541
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: we never had an incident or an accident because it

542
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: didn't ever donald you just to be playing with the gun. No, no,

543
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: because you know, when if you got a chance to

544
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: play basketball or two hand touch or tag or whatever,

545
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: playing with a loaded gun was nowhere near in our

546
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: our future. So we basically we you know what it was.

547
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: We understood everything that a gun could do. We weren't

548
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: afraid of them, but we had tremendous respect for Okay,

549
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: your college, you you know, going to college with a

550
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: lot different scenario than mine did. That was your fault.

551
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: Your father would but go ahead. You getting well in school, yeah,

552
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: not so much. I wanted to food a ride, you know,

553
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: I would class cloud and so my experience of getting

554
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: into college and doing that was a lot different than yours.

555
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: Tell the people about the conversation and what you told

556
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: me when you left the university and you came back

557
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: home and you stopped me down, and what did you

558
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: tell me? Which part about the time when you weren't

559
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: going to go to Savannah State, when you thought your

560
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,959
Speaker 1: abilities was bigger than Savannah State, And I was like,

561
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: oh no, that and I would go go to the military.

562
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: You were gonna go to the army. Yeah, it was

563
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: just you know, the thing was is that was like

564
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: a lot of your life, most of your life, for

565
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: all of your life, had been watching those of us

566
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: in front of you. And it was I tell people,

567
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I didn't realize I was than

568
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: my brother until it was time for me to go

569
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: to college, because then it was like, oh my god,

570
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: you got three more years of high school. Really, you know.

571
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: So it's like but the thing was is I didn't

572
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: want to father you. I wanted you to be like, look,

573
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: trust me, if you go to Savannah State and you

574
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: stayed there for you get you do what you're supposed

575
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: to do. I would do everything in my power to

576
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: get you over at University of South Carolina with me,

577
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: because I knew what kind of person you were, I

578
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: knew what your work ethic could be. I just knew

579
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: that you were afraid to be different at the time

580
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 1: because you had to be the class clown, because that

581
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: was your way in, because you weren't the best looking

582
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: dude in high school, so you get a whole lot

583
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: of dates, so you had to You figured out your

584
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: way to get in was to be funny. The problem

585
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: was that you were trying to be funny all the time,

586
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: and so when the test was handed out, you were

587
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 1: being funny and making some unfunny else. So so I

588
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: just wanted you. I knew what kind of person you

589
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: were and what kind of work ethic you had, so

590
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: but I just didn't want to I didn't want to

591
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: word you to death. I wanted you to be like, look,

592
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: this is still your life. I will help you, but

593
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: I want you to understand this is still your life.

594
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: So I go to Savannah State. Things go okay, and

595
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: we have a conversation after my sophomore year. Yes, I

596
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: had All American player, I'm a Conference Player of the year,

597
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: all this, I'm black college, All American, I'm on the map,

598
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: and I like, man, I want to go to the

599
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: universe of Miami and you tell me, nah, no, they

600
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: didn't want you. They didn't want you when they had

601
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: a chance to get you for nothing. Right, And now

602
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: you don't put this black sweat and tears and Bill

603
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: Davis the system and you on the map and now

604
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, what you proved to them you

605
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: could play? What did you do that was different? You

606
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: didn't do anything except for you got the opportunity, and

607
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: you took advantages of the opportunities you were giving to

608
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: be like, no, hey, the NFL, you can you can

609
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: stay here. The NFL will find you. And they found you.

610
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: They found me. Now, I mean you made it. You

611
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: made it very conducent for me to stay because you say,

612
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: I got a little package, buddy, but you need to

613
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: come get it. Yeah, I you know where I was

614
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: driving to pick up truck when I was in school,

615
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: my little brother drover Mercedes three hundred E with eighteen

616
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: inch chrome wheels and a whale tail on the back.

617
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: But that was that was the first. But what was

618
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: the first? What would the first call you got me?

619
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: On my siphomore year, the blue the Blue three? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

620
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: I was call you know where I was wearing my

621
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: South Carolina University of South Carolina football switch to class.

622
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: My brother was wearing Eyes Eyes shirts with the matching

623
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: red socks with the dark side of shoes. Yeah yeah, yeah,

624
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: and the creased blue jeans because you know what, And

625
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: I said this, uh at my college speeches that I

626
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: always you know, early on, I played for an audience

627
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: of one, and I said, you know, everything that I

628
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: did in football, I wasn't trying to impress Anybody's one

629
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 1: guy who knew what I was capable of, and I

630
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: was trying to do that to show him. And I say,

631
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: I've only been yelled at in athletics one time. I've

632
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: only had a coach tell me I wasn't performing one time.

633
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: And they go, who was it? I go. My brother said,

634
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: we were playing Southeast Bullock. We've never beaten him. I'm

635
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: the starting quarterback. I got Devin durns Is my tailback.

636
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: I got Pat Lewis on my right. And you came

637
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: up to the fence and say, man, what are you doing?

638
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: You you scared? You know you got you ain't playing

639
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: like you supposed to play. Was the only time I've

640
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: ever been talked to about my performance on the field,

641
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, at from that moment on, that's

642
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: never gonna happen to me again, only because of course

643
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: I know that. Of course I understand who I was

644
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: being a quarterback at Glenville High School and being the

645
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: type leader I wanted to be. But to have your

646
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: younger brother come over and tell you, not a coach,

647
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: not a teammate, somebody standing outside the fence, come over

648
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: to defence and tell him you, look, you ain't doing

649
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: what you're supposed to do was very eye opening and

650
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: convincing and helping me in my athletic career. So I

651
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: thank you for that. Did appreciate that? Did you think

652
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: that once you went to the league. Okay, I'm a junior,

653
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: you're in the league, your first round draft pick, did

654
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: you think that you know what I wonder if he

655
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: goes slack off now, is he's still gonna be as

656
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,479
Speaker 1: hungry now that we that I've made it, we've made

657
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: it because it was always we. It was never you,

658
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 1: It was never me. It was weak. Did you worry

659
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: about me slacking off not doing what I was gonna

660
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: what I was capable of doing, now that I felt

661
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: that we've had success, No, because you are always the

662
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: person that was like, Okay, let me see it, let

663
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: me understand it, let me get it. Now, let me

664
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: exceed what you have done with it. So whatever I did,

665
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: excuse me, whatever I did, I always knew that you

666
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 1: were like, let me learn how to do it. Okay,

667
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: let me try it. Okay, let me put my spin

668
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: on it. Okay, now let me do it better than you.

669
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: So I always knew that whatever I did, you were

670
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: going to try or you were going to to attempt

671
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: to do it better than I did. So no, I

672
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: never worried about Once once I got you to Savannah State,

673
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: I was done. I was like, this is gonna be

674
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: easy because once I got you to Savannah State, and

675
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 1: then once I showed you how we work out, once

676
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: I showed you how we condition, once I showed you

677
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: how we watch film, once I talked to you about

678
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: this is what I see, it was done because I

679
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, he's gonna get it, he's gonna learn it,

680
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: and then once he puts his spin on it, he's

681
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: gonna do it better than I did it. I mean, here,

682
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: I am an all American doing all these wonderful things

683
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: at the University of South Carolina and then all of

684
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: a sudden, they got a guy at Savannah State who's

685
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: averaging scoring a touchdown every three catches. You go, wait

686
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: a minute, how do you score a touchdown every three catches?

687
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,919
Speaker 1: And then I went and watched you guys play Savannah State,

688
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: and I think the score was like ninety eight ninety six.

689
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: But I'm like, this dude's running up and down the field.

690
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: So I just I never really concerned myself. The biggest

691
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: skier or fear factor I had pertaining to you was

692
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 1: before when you were like, I'm not going to Savannah State.

693
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: Because at that moment, I was like, Okay, he he's embarrassed,

694
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: he is, he's broken, he's embarrassed, he's humbled. And all

695
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: I know is is if if I can, if I

696
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: can convince him to go. And it wasn't convincing. I

697
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: knew if I said go, you were gonna go. If

698
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I go to the army, you were

699
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: gonna go to the army. If I just said, guess what,

700
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: we're gonna sell drugs, you would have sold drugs. I

701
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: just thought that we were connected that way. So it

702
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: was an opportunity for me to go let's hold off

703
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: on the army. Let's go to Savannah State and see

704
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: what happens. Of all the things that you've done in

705
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: your life, what's the hardest job you've had. Wow, that's

706
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: a good question. I really and truly don't think I've

707
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: had one. Shannon the Tate, the honest It got through.

708
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: I mean, because playing football is what I wanted to do.

709
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: But when you do something that you want to do,

710
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: you have to always be prepared to quit. And I

711
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: was always prepared to quit. And I remember when the

712
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: doctor told me I was not gonna play in the

713
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: NFL anymore. I flew back from Indianapolis, and I knew

714
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: if I could go to sleep, I'd be fine. I

715
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: knew if I could go in the room and go

716
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: to sleep, I would be fine. And I was able

717
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: to do that. And I have never been prepared for

718
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: the next step. The next step has always happened to me.

719
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 1: So like when I left high school, I wasn't prepared,

720
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't like, Okay, what am I gonna do? Now?

721
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: You're gonna go to college? Okay, you finished playing college? Okay,

722
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: what am I gonna do? Now? You're gonna go to

723
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: the NFL. Okay, the NFL. Uh, you don't go to

724
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: you know, a to the NFL. You go, Okay, I'm

725
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: in a net brace. What am I going to do now?

726
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: I was lucky and fortunate enough to get the job

727
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: at ESPN from the ESPN the NFL network, So I've

728
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: never really been prepared for the next step. But I've

729
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: always been prepared for whatever the next step is going

730
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: to be. Did well. For me, football is the easiest

731
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: thing I've ever done, because, I guess because it's something

732
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: that you know, God gave us the ability. We were

733
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: able to cultivate that ability. And I think all the

734
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: other things, the cropping up tobacco of the clipping of

735
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: the uncon field and pulling peanuts and load watermelon and

736
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 1: Bailey Hey, I think all those made it really easy

737
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: for us to play football for the simple fact we

738
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: were spending eight, nine, ten hours a day in the sun. Well,

739
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: if you can do that and make five dollars a

740
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: day and make ten dollars a day, you mean to

741
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: tell me you can't spend three hours in us on

742
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: a day and make a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand

743
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: dollars a year. Yeah, Yeah, Well, you know, and I

744
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: say this, and that's the thing. Is how you were

745
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: raised and what your experienced experiences are says a lot

746
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: about who you are. And I think our how we

747
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: were raised and our experiences definitely prepared us to be

748
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: in a position to succeed at whatever it was we

749
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: ended up doing. I mean, I'd like to think that

750
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: I worked hard, but I definitely didn't work any harder

751
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: than you or Jerry Rice or Michael Irvin or you know.

752
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 1: What I did what my body and mind and what

753
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: I was able to do. I mean, some of the

754
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: best years of that I had in the NFL is

755
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: when you know me, you and Harold Green lived together

756
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: and worked out together and ate together and swam together,

757
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: and those were some of the best years because you

758
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: were surrounded in that bubble by people who eat, sleep,

759
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: drink and believe what you eat, sleep, drink, and believe.

760
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: And I just think that when you're surrounded by that

761
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 1: kind of energy, that that's what's going to happen. So

762
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: I've always been surrounded by people who felt the same

763
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: way I felt and saw the same things I saw.

764
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: But the thing about what you and I is is

765
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: are the way we were raised in our experience is

766
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 1: definitely made. I don't think we ever went ever went

767
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 1: to work, because even you know, before we knew what

768
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: work was, it was just something we had to do.

769
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: So I can't say that I really had a hard job.

770
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 1: I really can't. So yeah, obviously you're in the NFL.

771
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 1: I'm still in college, and I'm like, you have all

772
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: the knife cars. You got the nine elevens landinosed white

773
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: convertible with the Navy interior, you got the red scrolls

774
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: that you've got, the M three, you got all these cars,

775
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: and I just say, bruh, you know, I need to

776
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: blog a little bit, you know, I need to hug

777
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: it up. Why were you feel comfortable letting me have

778
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: access to one hundred thousand, two hundred thousand dollars car

779
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: And here I am in college, and you know I

780
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: only wanted it for the sole purpose the hundreds need

781
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: to seek your boy. They needed it. Yeah, because you

782
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: were an ugly dude and you wanted to be seen.

783
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: I knew, Hey, I was just trying to help you out.

784
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: You know. The thing was is that's how we were.

785
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: We shared everything. I mean, you know, we we never

786
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 1: it was never we had something that was ours growing

787
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: up and having something. You know what if you know,

788
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: my peers, I'm driving this, you know this uh Nissan

789
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: three hundred Z okay, you have you take it? You know.

790
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: It was just that we had always shared everything, so

791
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't like I had arrived or made it and

792
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: was like, okay, now I'm you know, I got this,

793
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred and sixty thousand dollars of course,

794
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: and guess what, you know you can't drive that or

795
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: I got the first three hundred e uh coop uh

796
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: SL coop in South Carolina and you can't. I know

797
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: you're gonna go down to the beach and record already. No,

798
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: that's not I wanted you. I wanted you to have

799
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: the same experience from day one. I've always wanted you

800
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: to have the same experience. But you gotta hit you

801
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 1: what you wasn't abled to tell that you already went there.

802
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: I said, ah, I need I need a convertible with ladies,

803
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: go down to day told the Black College beach week.

804
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: I said, he's okay, come get it. You good, Okay,

805
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 1: I get it. I called you about Friday night. You'll

806
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: after the phone, I leave you a method? What was

807
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: what was the boy to mail, Hey, Brod, just call

808
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: and let you know. I junk yard car man. I

809
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: was like, wait, what does junk yard me? Did he?

810
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, what is junkyard made? You were? You

811
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: were looking around and I want to say, who's with you?

812
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: Where you buy yourself? Was in what y'all with? Boss on?

813
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: You boys from Savannah State? And looking around at the

814
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: huntings and drove up on somebody's trailer hits or ripped

815
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: the grill out I did, I did? Yeah, that was

816
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,919
Speaker 1: but no. That was the thing though, is it was like,

817
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: whatever my experiences are, I want him to have the same.

818
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: You know. It's like my friends in golf. Now I

819
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: play golf. I don't want them to be great at

820
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: tournament golf. I want them to play every day like

821
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: I play and enjoy playing whether it's a sixty eight

822
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: or seventy eight, because it's a fun game and I'm

823
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: not gonna win at it. I'm gonna play it. And

824
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: so I just wanted you to have the same experience

825
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: as I had. You get to the NFL. And what

826
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: people don't know is that I know is that you're

827
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 1: a talker. But for some reason, something happened in Green

828
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: Bay early your career. As you mentioned, you were the first,

829
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 1: you were first round pick, the seventh pick in the draft.

830
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: You were the second receiver behind Tim Brown. Tim I think,

831
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, with six, you went seven, and

832
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 1: I think Michael event with eighth or ninth. Yeah, so

833
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: what transpired in Green Bay that says you know what

834
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm out? You know? The thing was is I was

835
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: never asked a question for me that I could answer.

836
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: I was always asked loaded questions. For instance, Lindy and

837
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 1: Fani was my head coach, and they would always say, well,

838
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: coaching Fani said this, and I would have to respond

839
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: instead of asking me what am I going through? And

840
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: so I was like, and you were with me that offseason.

841
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: I was like, Yeah, they're gonna want to talk to

842
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: me and I ain't gonna have anything to say. So

843
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: it kind of was twofold. It was kind of they

844
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: never asked me. They were always asking loaded questions. Hey, Lindy,

845
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: coaching Fani said, you're two big. I was two nineteen

846
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: when you drafted me, and all of a sudden, I'm

847
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: too big now, and so you know what am I

848
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: going to say? It? You know. So I was like,

849
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: if coaching finally says I'm too big, I'm gonna, you know,

850
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: I need to get down to whatever coaching finally says

851
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: I need to get down to. But and then I

852
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I'm gonna make them want

853
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: to talk to me, and I'm not going to talk.

854
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: And it just so happened that the next year I

855
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: was fortunate enough with some really good quarterback play from

856
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 1: Don mccowsky and an outstanding defense, I was able to

857
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,959
Speaker 1: lead the league and catch his yards and touchdowns, which

858
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: made everyone take notice and be like, oh my gosh,

859
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: he's having this kind of year and he won't talk.

860
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: So it started out kind of as a twofold thing.

861
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:43,479
Speaker 1: But then you know what it did what it did,

862
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: It worked for me because the biggest thing that it

863
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 1: helped me is I didn't have to as a first

864
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: round draft pick in the small fish bowl of Green Bay, Wisconsin.

865
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: I didn't have to defend how I played. I didn't

866
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: have to explain what my learning curve was. I didn't

867
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: have to go through the you know, I want to

868
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: do this, but I can't. It helped me so much.

869
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: And watching the first round picks, you know, by the

870
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: time I was there, they were constantly being scrutinized or

871
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: having themselves scrutinized their own play, and I thought it

872
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: hurt them because they had to defend themselves each and

873
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: every day, whereas I didn't have to. I remember my

874
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: draft experience was a lot different than yours. I met

875
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: you at your house. And remember at that time, the

876
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: draft was on a Sunday. Yes, and so I come up.

877
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: I come up that Saturday, and I'm spending the night

878
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: with you. I met your house. Harold Green also was

879
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: in that draft, and so I'm looking and I know

880
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: I hadn't really hurt from anybody. So I thought the

881
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: first round was likely off the table. But everybody had

882
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: a grade on me somewhere between the first and the

883
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 1: third round. We we we definitely t thought two, between

884
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: two and three. We brought two and three, that is correct.

885
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, the day Harold gets

886
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: a call, Howrod gets drafted in the second round. He's

887
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: going to Cincinnati and all that. Corey Miller goes in

888
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: the fourth, fifth round of New York something like that,

889
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 1: sixth round. Yeah, And so I don't get a call,

890
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: and I go up and I go upstairs and I

891
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: remember you coming in the room. What do we talk about?

892
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: We talked about that, guess what all you want is

893
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: a change. All you want is a change. And that

894
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: was Sunday night. Remember the other few rounds were the

895
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: next day on that Monday, and so I was like, look, man,

896
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: I know you disappointed, and You're like, man, I've done this,

897
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: and I was like, look, I know you're disappointed, but hey,

898
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter where you get drafted. All you want

899
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: is a change. You go home, you go to bed,

900
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: you go to sleep. We get up the next morning,

901
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,479
Speaker 1: eat breakfast, we go over to the stadium to work out.

902
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: You get a call from Dan Reeves, who, by the way,

903
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 1: is fellow Game Cup. Dan Reeves calls, I'm going to Denver. Well,

904
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: I thought you going to Denver? You now in the NFL.

905
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: I thought that was a great thing. I didn't realize

906
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: you going to Denver being in the NFL. I was

907
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: still paying all your bills. So it was kind of

908
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: a twofold thing for me because I'm like, how is

909
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: he in the NFL and I'm paying all his bills

910
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: and he in the same late that same league. I mean,

911
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: but no, it was I thought that was It was

912
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: different in the fact that when you left high school

913
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: you were one of the considered one of the best athletes.

914
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: As a senior in the state of Georgia set a

915
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: triple jump record in the state of Georgia, which I

916
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: think still staying it does. When you left college, you

917
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 1: were one of the most dominant whatever division you guys

918
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: were in at the time, college wide receivers in the

919
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: history of the sport. I think those two things, along

920
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: with the fact that I was in front of you

921
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: and I already had a measure of success, had you

922
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: go I know I can do it because he's doing it,

923
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: and I've done everything he's done, so I know I

924
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: can do it. But way did they get a load

925
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: of me? Because they're getting ready to see somebody that

926
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: got no pride, And I always said that's the most

927
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: dangerous person to the person has no pride and no ego,

928
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: you need to be real careful about them. And of

929
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: course the rest of your career's history. I think that

930
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: you were proud. Obviously you were proud that I got

931
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: you know, I decided to take your advice and go

932
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 1: to Savattle State. You were proud that the Broncos gave

933
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: me an opportunity. But I think the pride that you've

934
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: been is when I called and told you I hadn't

935
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: made the Pro Bowl because because I was like, you

936
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 1: know what, I'm not going to another Pro Bowl. I

937
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: had been to two or three. It was a trip

938
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: to Hawaii. It was like, okay, you know, I'm not going.

939
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: And what was really great is you called and said

940
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: you a the Pro Bowl. One of my best friends

941
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 1: at the time who played with me in South Carolina,

942
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: Harold Green, had made the Pro Bowl. But it was

943
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: really ironic that we all made the Pro Bowl and

944
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: had like our better years. Was the year we all

945
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: lived together, eight together, talk watch movies, went to movies,

946
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: we did everything together that offseason. So it was kind

947
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: of gratifying and surprising that we all had that success

948
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two. Was it yep, in nineteen ninety

949
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 1: two where we had the success that we had where

950
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: we all were over in Hawaii and actually that was

951
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: the first year in NFL history that a set of

952
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: brothers had led different teams in the same season, same seasons. Yeah,

953
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: it was nineteen ninety two was my first year with

954
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: Mike Holmgren. I had gotten Brett Favre after Game three,

955
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: after Donmikowski got injured. We were a football team that

956
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: was in search of an identity, and Mike brought a

957
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,359
Speaker 1: system in that just allowed my abilities to go to

958
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: the next level with a quarterback that had a strong arm,

959
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: that was fearless. So it allowed my career to take

960
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: a turn in a direction where you know, in ninety two,

961
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: I led the league and catches. I did again in

962
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: ninety three. I led the league in touchdowns in ninety four.

963
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: Someone showed me something the other day that since nineteen

964
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: ninety four, there's only one guy who's caught more touchdown

965
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: passes than I ended with nineteen ninety four, and that's

966
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: Randy Moss's twenty three. I think it was so my

967
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: eighteen is the second most since nineteen ninety four, which

968
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: is kind of sillily impressive as much as they throw

969
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 1: the football around. But yeah, I was. I was. I

970
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: was real happy and proud of the fact that, you

971
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: know what, my little brother pro Bowl. Yeah, I'm still

972
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 1: paying all this big I wasn't making no money. Then,

973
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: you know, they got your ball on the cheek. You know,

974
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: I was thinking, what they're looking for they're looking again.

975
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: You you mentioned that when the doctor you flew to

976
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: ending and the doctor advised you. He said, if you

977
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: were my son, I would advise you not to play again.

978
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: And I remember you calling me and we're having a

979
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 1: conversation and you cried, Yeah, you cried that I couldn't

980
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: play anymore. Yeah. It was one of those situations to

981
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: where I had an idea. It wasn't like it was

982
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: a complete shock, you know, I had an idea, and

983
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: I just think that, you know, what was disappointing was

984
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 1: where my team was at that time, where you were

985
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: in your career. At that time, we had just played

986
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: h Denver, had just come to Green Bay and we

987
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: had played a Sunday night game. I think it was

988
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: actually that was ninety three that we came there. Came

989
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: there in ninety three, so it was our careers were

990
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: kind of on the same Finally you decided to play

991
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: some good football and join your brothers one of the

992
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: best players in the league. Took a while, but you

993
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: finally got there. So I think that was the disappointing

994
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: thing was as my team was getting so much better

995
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: and you were starting to establish yourself as one of

996
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: the best, not in the AFC, but in football. And

997
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: I think that was disappointing because, you know, finally we

998
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: had gotten to a point in our careers where our

999
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: careers could mirror because if you look at it, your

1000
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,959
Speaker 1: team was getting better, like my team was getting better.

1001
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: Your team was headed in that direction and doing some

1002
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: things in the exact same office. So if you and

1003
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: I could talk about offensive philosophies because Mike Shanahan was

1004
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: the offensive coordinator for Mike Holmgren uh and learned you know,

1005
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: at San Francisco and learned my conference system. So it

1006
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 1: was it was just disappointing because my teams had gotten

1007
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: better and you were playing at a at a Pro

1008
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: Bowl level tight end and your team was getting better.

1009
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: And it's not ironic that a few years later your

1010
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: team and my old team met in the Super Bowl.

1011
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 1: I remember calling you earlier in my career in training

1012
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: camp and not getting a whole lot of opportunities, and

1013
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: I remember you having a conversation because I was very plus,

1014
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: I was very frustrated. I didn't I didn't look at

1015
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: it like I'm a seventh round draft pick and you know, okay,

1016
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,839
Speaker 1: you know, Vance and Mark Jackson Ricky until Michael Young.

1017
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: They had just come up the Super Bowl. I didn't

1018
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: look at it like, Okay, you know these guys are veterans,

1019
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 1: they've been here, they're gonna get first crack. I'm just like, okay,

1020
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: I want to get an opportunity. And I remember calling

1021
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 1: you and I was very down, and you told me something.

1022
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: You're like, ruh, don't be down here, said John Elway

1023
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: is going to call your number one day, and when

1024
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: he calls your number, just make sure you're ready. And

1025
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: you weren't. You You weren't ready. He calls your number,

1026
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: you would go in motion and he would turn around

1027
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:08,879
Speaker 1: and be like run a corner, and you would going

1028
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 1: run a slant. I mean, to my defense, to my defense,

1029
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: I was playing wide receiver. I didn't know that during

1030
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: the week that would go move me to tight end.

1031
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: So I was struggling just getting I was just starting

1032
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: to get my sep and have an idea, that's your story,

1033
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: that's that's the story you're gonna put out on the internet.

1034
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,879
Speaker 1: That Okay, let's go with that one then. But no,

1035
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,800
Speaker 1: And that was the thing is is I knew because

1036
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 1: I had seen a lot of guys that had come

1037
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 1: to Green Bay as free agents or higher, you know,

1038
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: six seven twelfth round draft picks. And I was just

1039
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: I've seen that. You know, what you need is a chance.

1040
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,439
Speaker 1: You just gotta keep looking at I need a chance.

1041
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: I'm not asking for a handout, just to hand and

1042
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: so when you get that opportunity, and hey, look you

1043
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: should have been cut six or seven times. But the

1044
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: thing was, I remember you you, I remember you calling

1045
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: me frustrated. You may not remember this because my college

1046
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: quarterback also went to Denver that year. Yeah, and you

1047
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: remember what you were like, your college quarterback boy to

1048
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: get me cut? It was a bowl cut the man?

1049
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: You how you put up all these levels with hill

1050
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: and and that's a true story. I called you off

1051
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: the bro. That was the funniest Yeah, you and my

1052
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: college quarterback. Yeah, but the thing was is you all

1053
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: you needed was you just needed to stay the course

1054
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 1: before the waters calmed, and you were able to. And

1055
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: I think that's probably the best thing about our relationship

1056
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 1: is I've always been able to say the sake of saying, hey, Shannon,

1057
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: is time to go, and you were like, okay, let's go.

1058
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: You never fought me on Yeah, but I'm putting up

1059
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: all these Shanna, just just just say just take a

1060
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 1: deep reap. Look, man, you're gonna get an opportunity. John's

1061
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: gonna call your name, which you don't want. But I

1062
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: see here is when guys want to football, they always

1063
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: seem to get it and then they drop it because

1064
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: they like they want it, but they weren't expecting it.

1065
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: And I was always able to talk you off the ledge,

1066
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 1: so to speak. And that's that's just a combination of

1067
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: growing up and knowing one another as well as we do.

1068
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: We win in ninety seven, we go to Pittsburgh, I mean,

1069
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: we have to go We're a wild card team, so

1070
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: we have to go on the road and beat Kansas City,

1071
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: who had just beaten the three weeks earlier to win

1072
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: the division. So now we're going to be the wild card.

1073
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: You beat Kansas City in Kansas City. Now for the

1074
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: AFC Championship, we got to go to Three Rivers, the

1075
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: old Three Rivers Stadium and play the Steelers who had

1076
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: just ramshackled us about six weeks earlier and winning that game.

1077
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: And we're going to the super Bowl, and we have

1078
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:54,919
Speaker 1: a conversation that night, you know about what the expectations

1079
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: although you had never been, and I just remember hearing

1080
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: the adulation and your boys like I'm like, oh body,

1081
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: I really really know somebody that I grew up never

1082
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: I is going to play in the Super Bowl. Yeah,

1083
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: that was the only thing. It didn't dawn on me

1084
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: at the time. When you and I were talking, Now,

1085
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: oh wait, your team is playing my old team in

1086
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. It was like finally someone. I mean,

1087
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: I had done a lot of work done. I've been

1088
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: in a lot of battles with the Brett Farrs and

1089
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: the Robert Brooks's and the Edgar Bennetts and the Dorsey Levins.

1090
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: We had been teammates, and I had an idea of

1091
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: what it took for them to get to, you know,

1092
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: get that team in the Super Bowl because they had

1093
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 1: just won one the year before. But with you, it

1094
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: was different because it was like, Okay, he should have

1095
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: he was going to the Army to start off with,

1096
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: and then he ended up going to Savannah State, all right,

1097
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: and then he wasn't getting drafted and then he ends

1098
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: up going to Denver in the seventh round. And then

1099
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: my old quarterback is not throwing him the ball in

1100
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: positions that he can catch it, so my old quarterbacks

1101
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: about to get him and Shannon cut So everything is

1102
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: starting to look like, you know what this is? This

1103
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: is supposed to happen this way. And I think the

1104
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: only time I left, since I left the NFL, that

1105
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: I ever went what if? Was what if I was

1106
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: playing for my team and he's playing with his team

1107
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 1: playing in this super Bowl? That would have been something else.

1108
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 1: That's the only time I have ever missed playing in

1109
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: the NFL. That's the only time, not one time since

1110
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: I left, except for that time, did I ever miss

1111
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: playing in the NFL. I don't think Mama and Buck

1112
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: could have handled it, because I don't think Bud. I

1113
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: don't think Buck could have handled mam would have been

1114
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: fine because Mama would have had a jersey with you know,

1115
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: half Green Bay half Denver. She'd enjoy it, okay at least,

1116
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: But Buck couldn't have took my sister. No, she wouldn't

1117
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,439
Speaker 1: have handled that very well. I wouldn't have gone over

1118
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: very well because you know the thing is is they

1119
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: liked you better anyway, because and I say that like this,

1120
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:09,959
Speaker 1: we ain't worried about what he gonna do. He gonna

1121
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: go and do, but the little one that, oh, that

1122
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: little one he gonna oh he we're just hoping he

1123
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: don't end up in prison, because there ain't no telling

1124
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: what that little one tell the story what my grandma

1125
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: used to tell me at once or twice a week,

1126
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:26,919
Speaker 1: nobody gonna hit him. And here old glob of mouth

1127
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 1: that because that's what's gonna happen, or I'll end where

1128
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 1: would I gonna end up? I can't even say it

1129
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: because it's not right. But she thought, she thought, for

1130
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: sure you gonna end up in prison. But I mean,

1131
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: but the thing was is, you know, I think she

1132
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 1: kind of knew and she never said, Hey, you need

1133
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: to talk to him, or you need to do this.

1134
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: I think she kind of knew that. He knows that

1135
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: there's a line, and he knows he can't cross it,

1136
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: but he likes to live right up next to it.

1137
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: I like it over the line. He the guy that

1138
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 1: is standing like love, standing on the edge of the cliff.

1139
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: Now he got no intentions on jumping, and he really

1140
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: hoped nobody pushes him. But he loves standing on the

1141
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: edge of the cliff looking over that. You've always been

1142
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: that guy I have. I think the things bake I

1143
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: think for Granted. Is that What people don't understand is

1144
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 1: that I slept with Granted until I was fifteen years

1145
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: of age, So and you slept with Papa, and I

1146
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: slept with Granted, And even after Papa died, I didn't

1147
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: sleep with you. I still slept with Granted. I didn't

1148
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: actually sleep in my own bed until you went to

1149
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: college nineteen eighty three. So here I am fifteen years

1150
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 1: of age and I'm still sleeping with my grandmother. So

1151
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: there was a closeness there that, you know, for me,

1152
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: I was listening to what she said, but I wasn't

1153
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: hearing what she was saying. And she didn't say a lot.

1154
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: But she didn't say a lot though, No, and you didn't.

1155
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like you were It's not like

1156
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: your your juvenile record had to be expunged when you

1157
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: talking about that guy. It was just that you, you

1158
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: know what, there were some things that needed to be

1159
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 1: done in history, English and maybe geometry that you didn't

1160
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 1: do right. But other than that, it wasn't like you

1161
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: were a bad kid. You just you just hard. It

1162
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: was hard for you to be planning where you to

1163
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 1: bloom where you were planning because you always wanted to

1164
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 1: be something you were always doing this. I got I

1165
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: gotta get the last word here. You know, it's like

1166
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: stop shad, a quick shadder, stopped shadder, you know what.

1167
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: Somebody agol hit that boy in his mouth one day

1168
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: and let's go yep, let's let's let's talk. Let's talk

1169
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: about your let's talk about your career. Obviously, you retire

1170
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 1: at the twenty nine years of age, seven years in

1171
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: the season, and there have only been two seasons in

1172
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: which someone is caught more than eighteen touchdowns. Jared Rice

1173
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven had twenty two. Randy Moss broke

1174
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: that resting in two thousand and seven with twenty three.

1175
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: If you look at what you've done up until the

1176
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: point you retired, nobody had that many that many catches

1177
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: in to a start a career like you have your

1178
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: last season. And what people don't understand about this, in

1179
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: your last six games, only one person in history has

1180
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 1: had that many touchdowns over a six games stretch. Your

1181
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: last six games of your career, you had thirteen touchdowns.

1182
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: Only Jerry record breaking season he had fourteen, and he

1183
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: did that during the strike, so his is pretty impressive.

1184
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: He did that during the strike short season and your

1185
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: last game you had nine catches abut thirty three about

1186
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 1: thirty two and three touchdowns. And when you see the

1187
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, and I know it's something that's something

1188
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 1: that you don't talk about and you don't politic four,

1189
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: But do you believe looking at your resume and looking

1190
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: at the guys that you competed against, the Michael Irvis,

1191
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: the Jerry Rice to Chris Carters, the Herman Andre Reid,

1192
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 1: Andre Ris and Tim Brown, and four or five of

1193
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: those guys are in the hall. Dude, you believe your

1194
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 1: resume for seven years since Sterling Sharps should be in

1195
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: the pro foot Hall of Fame. Because as you, I'm

1196
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 1: going to answer the question. Normally, I wouldn't answer the

1197
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 1: question because I'm like, I can only get in based

1198
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: on what I did. But because it's you, I'm gonna

1199
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 1: answer the question. And I would say, if the Hall

1200
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:25,439
Speaker 1: of Fame is for what you did? Everybody always talks

1201
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 1: about with me what I didn't do, and they go

1202
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: if he would have played longer? And I always say, well,

1203
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 1: if you collect rocks, and if I collect rocks for

1204
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: three years and you collect rocks for seven years, there's

1205
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 1: a good chance you're gonna have more rocks than me.

1206
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 1: And so when I look at the Hall of Fame,

1207
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: in my seven years, I let a receiving category either catches,

1208
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: yards or touchdowns. I did that a lot, and I

1209
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: did that in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and I did not

1210
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 1: do that with Hall of Fame quarterbacks. I got some

1211
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 1: catches in there for Bud Keys and Mike Norrisseeth and

1212
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: Mike tom Zach and Blair Kiel and Anthony Dilwig. I

1213
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: got some catches from those guys. But I just think

1214
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: that everybody goes. Everybody is in love with what they see.

1215
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm a firm believer and Randy Moss

1216
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: and Tera Owens, and I'm a firm believer in Hines War.

1217
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: I'm a firm believer in Ike Bruce. I mean, I

1218
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 1: got no problem with nobody was in. But I'm like,

1219
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: if you're saying I needed to play longer, then you're

1220
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: punishing me because those guys played twelve thirteen fourteen years.

1221
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: That's so if you if it took them twelve thirteen

1222
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: fourteen years to do what I did in seven, then

1223
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 1: are they Hall of Famers. And I'm not knocking anybody.

1224
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm just making an argument, So I don't think about it,

1225
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: don't talk about it. I was like, if me getting

1226
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 1: into Hall of Fame would make me feel better than

1227
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: I feel right now because my brother's going in the

1228
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, I don't want to go because that

1229
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 1: was a great That weekend was a great can being

1230
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 1: there with me, you, Libby, that was a great weekend.

1231
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: And so I don't think about the Hall of Fame.

1232
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 1: But the argument is, well, he didn't do They always

1233
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: talk about what I didn't do because not many people

1234
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: saw what I did, and with the coverage that we

1235
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: got in Green Bay is not like the coverage that

1236
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: you have in professional sports right now. But I'll take

1237
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: my seven years, and you take any receiver's best seven years,

1238
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: Just take their best seven years. I liked the way

1239
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 1: my numbers stack up. It's not my you know, it's

1240
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 1: not my fault that I only played seven years. Sorry

1241
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: that Hall of Fame. But for me getting into the

1242
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, and you were there every step of

1243
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 1: the way, because you were there in oh nine when

1244
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 1: I didn't get in, that was probably the lowest I've

1245
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: ever seen you too. Yeah, that was worse than I'm

1246
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: going to the Army, And that was worse than I

1247
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: didn't get drafted on day one. That was the worst

1248
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 1: because I think you allowed yourself to let your guard

1249
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: down and say I had done what others Because I

1250
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 1: think at the time it was you, Ozzie and John Mackey.

1251
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 1: You know, hey, who's the best John I'm killing? So

1252
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:21,919
Speaker 1: it was you, Ozzie, John Mack because they're like John

1253
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 1: Mackey kept so killing. He can go stand up and

1254
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 1: play wide receiver. Ozzie, he's not a dominant blocker, but

1255
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 1: he blocked for a dude. D ran for two thousand yards,

1256
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 1: so he knows what he's doing. You know. John Mackey's

1257
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 1: just a crafty rock running So I think you allowed

1258
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 1: yourself to look at your numbers and say definitely and

1259
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 1: just just icing on the cake. I've been at three

1260
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 1: super bowl so you can say, yeah, you won two

1261
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 1: super Bowls, but you played with with John Elway and

1262
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: Too Real and Davis. Hey, look, I went to Baltimore

1263
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 1: and you know we didn't have John Elway Trent Dilfer

1264
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 1: and we won a super Bowl, right, And so when

1265
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 1: you didn't get selected that first year, I think that

1266
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: was probably the lowest guy I ever seen. Yeah, I

1267
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 1: was disappointed because I'm saying to myself, if you didn't

1268
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: like my numbers this year, it's not like I can

1269
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 1: add to it next year. And if you don't like

1270
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 1: them next year, it's not like an I add to

1271
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 1: them on the third year. And so for me, I thought, okay,

1272
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 1: I thought it was about winning. Well, no tight end

1273
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: at the time had won more games than I had won.

1274
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: Very few tight ends had had the career that I

1275
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 1: had with the eight Pro Bowls, true, with the Pro

1276
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: with the All Pro selections, the fifty catch seasons, the

1277
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: thousand yards seasons. Nobody had ever done that first tight

1278
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 1: end with seven hundred catches, eight hundred catches with eight thousand,

1279
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: nine thousand, ten thousand yards, And I'm like, wait a minute,

1280
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: so what do you need what? So so I thought

1281
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 1: it was about winning, and then it was like, come

1282
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 1: to find out, winning only matters if they want you

1283
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 1: not to, if they want you to get in, and

1284
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: then it and then they I don't believe you should

1285
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: come up with a reason to keep somebody out, whether

1286
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 1: if you're looking at what someone didn't do, Yeah, okay,

1287
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: and then they then fine, I'm never gonna get in,

1288
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:09,679
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be fine with that. But if you're

1289
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 1: looking for a way to or you're looking for a

1290
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: way to keep someone out of the Hall of Fame,

1291
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 1: you know, because it's you know, other than where is

1292
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:24,240
Speaker 1: Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Earhart the only other? The most

1293
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 1: difficult question to ask is what's the criteria for getting

1294
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 1: into the Hall of Fame the NFL Hall of Fame

1295
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 1: because it's the most secretive and no one knows. And

1296
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 1: that's the thing is, you go, I'm just looking at

1297
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: what I was able to. You know, I'm sorry, but

1298
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 1: I didn't draft the guys I got to play with,

1299
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't set the schedule up. I didn't

1300
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: go this is what I did. And I'm like, so

1301
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 1: if Shannon Sharp's gonna get it in the Hall of

1302
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 1: Fame because he played in three Super Bowls, you're penalizing

1303
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 1: me for not having John l Way and Roll Davis

1304
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: on the team, you know. So I just look at it,

1305
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:01,679
Speaker 1: like I say, you know what, I like my numbers

1306
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 1: and my numbers and it's funny playing to you know,

1307
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 1: playing travel golf. Now I get a chance to be

1308
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:09,600
Speaker 1: around a lot of Hall of famers. I have a

1309
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 1: lot of friends who don't like being around those guys.

1310
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 1: They don't feel comfortable, and I feel comfortable. They, you know,

1311
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 1: the Marcus Allen's and the Drone Betsis of the world

1312
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: of Eric Dickerson's have always treated me wonderfully and they'll

1313
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,719
Speaker 1: make me feel like, Hey, I'm not a Hall of Famer,

1314
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:31,759
Speaker 1: And so I'm like, I think that's because I'm happy

1315
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 1: about the way I played. I get I played as

1316
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: hard as I could for as long as I could.

1317
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,680
Speaker 1: And if I wasn't a Hall of Famer eight years ago,

1318
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 1: am I a Hall of Famer today? You know? I

1319
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 1: Am I a Hall of Famer at ninety two? You know?

1320
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: And I you know. The other argument I say is

1321
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: if you put people in an arena like the Hall

1322
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:52,679
Speaker 1: of Fame, if you do it every year, you're gonna

1323
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:54,439
Speaker 1: have some people that shouldn't be in. You're gonna have

1324
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 1: some people that's not gonna get in. And so I'm like,

1325
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 1: I like my number. And I said, you just take

1326
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:04,760
Speaker 1: the top seven wide receivers, pick any seven, and you

1327
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:08,639
Speaker 1: take their best seven years, and you stacked their seven

1328
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,639
Speaker 1: years up against my only seven, and let's see where

1329
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: we are. Yeah, I mean, that's a that's a very

1330
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 1: compelling point. But for me, man, you know what, when

1331
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 1: I think about it, it's the one thing that I

1332
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 1: really and it's a great honor. I mean, I was

1333
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 1: two I think I was two sixty seven that got

1334
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 1: into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. They're well over

1335
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:28,920
Speaker 1: three hundred. I think they're in the three fifties now.

1336
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 1: But for me, it's something that I really don't think of.

1337
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:34,640
Speaker 1: And I get you know when when Skip referred to

1338
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 1: me as a Hall of Famer, I kind of get

1339
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: uneasy because I'm like, because, yeah, it's me, I get

1340
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 1: the gold jacket, but so many other people played a

1341
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 1: part in me getting this gold jacket. And so for me,

1342
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:53,639
Speaker 1: I get on like Super Bowl, that's the whole team

1343
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 1: because everybody on the team got a ring. Yeah you

1344
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. And so that's something. And that

1345
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 1: when I went the Pro when my first my first

1346
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 1: time I was an All Pro, I get all the

1347
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 1: offensive lineman Rolexus and that very few, very few. That's

1348
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,680
Speaker 1: something running backs normally do, quarterbacks normally do. But I

1349
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: was just like so appreciative that I wanted to thank

1350
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:17,639
Speaker 1: them because I really thought they blocked a little harder

1351
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: when they knew the mall was gonna come my way.

1352
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 1: So I get I kind of get uneasy, and that's

1353
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: how I am. There are guys like I don't like

1354
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:25,680
Speaker 1: get around someone. It's like, oh, I'm in the Hall

1355
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 1: of Fame, you're not, or you this and that. That's

1356
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:30,600
Speaker 1: not how I look at it because I know, and

1357
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 1: I know when we played you guys. I know what

1358
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 1: Wade Phillips was saying, and I know what the DVDs

1359
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: were saying, And I know what other to go talk

1360
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:41,600
Speaker 1: to Dean Sanders and Rod woods't and Niels Williams and

1361
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: Darryl Green, guys that are in the Hall of Fame

1362
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: at the cornerback position and ask them. I know what

1363
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 1: they tell me about Sterling Shark. So all that other

1364
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 1: stuff is finding good and the people that vote, they vote.

1365
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:58,599
Speaker 1: But I know what the guys that played said about

1366
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:01,559
Speaker 1: my brother. All I wanted was when a guy saw

1367
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,720
Speaker 1: me in a super market or grocery store or in

1368
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: church and he was sitting next to his kid, and

1369
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 1: he would say that guy played in the NFL and

1370
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 1: I played against him and he was the son of

1371
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 1: a gun. That's all I've ever wanted was the respect

1372
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:15,800
Speaker 1: of the guys I played against. That's all I've ever wanted.

1373
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that they had a Hall of

1374
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 1: Fame or a Pro Bowl when I first started, I

1375
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,719
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't know that they had an NFL record

1376
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 1: for you know, leading the league and catches three times

1377
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:29,719
Speaker 1: a leading the league, and yards once and leading the league,

1378
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 1: and touchdowns twice. You know, I didn't even know that.

1379
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: So you got waiting when you play seven years and

1380
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 1: you led the league in a receiving category how many times.

1381
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means, but during a whole

1382
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:41,600
Speaker 1: lot of guys that can say that, right, you know.

1383
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 1: And so I'm just like, yeah, if you need me

1384
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 1: to play six more years, well I'm sorry, but that's

1385
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. I agree, that's not gonna happen. And

1386
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 1: me not being in it is gonna be fine. But

1387
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 1: if you take the guys who were in and I'm

1388
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 1: not saying the guys who just take the guys who

1389
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,760
Speaker 1: were in and take our best seven years and stack

1390
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: them up against my only seven, and you tell me

1391
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 1: what you think, brou I really appreciate that. I know

1392
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: we don't get an opportunity to talk like this in

1393
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 1: depth in Carolina and playing golf and I'm here out

1394
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 1: in California doing Undisputed every day, so we don't get

1395
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: an opportunity. But this is my very first podcast. And

1396
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:23,680
Speaker 1: when we put this thing together, I said, there's no

1397
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: question who I know. The first person gonna be on

1398
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: my podcast is gonna be because it's the person that

1399
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 1: although he's my brother, he's more like a father figure.

1400
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 1: And a lot of what you see, a lot of

1401
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 1: the player that I became, the man that I became,

1402
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 1: the values that I that I have was because of him.

1403
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 1: And so Bro, I really appreciate you taking the time

1404
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 1: to sit down with me and talk to me and

1405
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 1: give people a glimpse into how we how Curling and

1406
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 1: Shannon Sharp came to be, because a lot of times

1407
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 1: I think people see and hear me say things on

1408
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 1: television and they want to know just how much of

1409
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:58,640
Speaker 1: that is real, how much of that is true, And

1410
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: for you to come on here and basically echo the

1411
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: things that we were, how we were brought up in

1412
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 1: things that my grandfather and my grandmother instilled, how they

1413
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 1: talked talked to us, and the discipline and the determination

1414
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: of dedication that really means a lot, and so I

1415
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 1: appreciate it. You know, I love There isn't anything that

1416
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do for you. As long as as long

1417
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: as I got life, you got life. As long as

1418
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 1: I've got as long as I got a dollar, you

1419
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 1: got fifty to SI, I got fifty sid. Wow, I

1420
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 1: was going to ask you to send that whole dollar,

1421
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:34,640
Speaker 1: but we'll get that later off. I mean, you know,

1422
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 1: we get back to that. Let No, you know, we've

1423
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 1: always been there's no telling what a man can do

1424
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 1: nor how far he can go, as long as he

1425
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:43,439
Speaker 1: doesn't mind who gets the credit. And we've never cared,

1426
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:46,479
Speaker 1: you know. And I say to people all the time.

1427
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,720
Speaker 1: Everybody used to think Shannon followed me around, and I

1428
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 1: was like, he did and I followed him. I'm like,

1429
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,639
Speaker 1: and the thing was is our lives are so parallel

1430
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:57,720
Speaker 1: considering we're I'm three years older than you, and it's

1431
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 1: it's like you couldn't script because you know, you ended

1432
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 1: up in college, you ended up in the NFL, you

1433
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 1: ended up in TV. And I'm like, you couldn't script it.

1434
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,560
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, doing this today and I

1435
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 1: will tell America this doing this today. It is the

1436
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 1: first time I've been in television. I had never asked

1437
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: to do a sit down with my brother because I

1438
01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:22,599
Speaker 1: was like, I didn't want people to feel like, oh,

1439
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 1: this is a or how it was going to come

1440
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,720
Speaker 1: across at the time. But you know, doing this and

1441
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,560
Speaker 1: get a chance to reminisce about our days in Glenville

1442
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 1: and talking about Mary and Barney, and it definitely reminds

1443
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 1: us that, you know what, God, life was easy when

1444
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 1: you just just follow your path. It's when we get

1445
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 1: off paths when we start to make mistakes. And I'm

1446
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: grateful for the way we were raised because it definitely

1447
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 1: helped us get to this point. It did. And I

1448
01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: should have charged you more when you cut me with

1449
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: that knife. I should have charged you more than what

1450
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 1: I actually charged you, because now that I think of

1451
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 1: no other way. Papa, I got the scar. I got

1452
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 1: the scar right here where you cut me. Bro I

1453
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 1: got the same scar. And see, I got the same

1454
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 1: scar because if I didn't let you cut me, you

1455
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 1: were gonna go turn me in like he did when

1456
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 1: you set the field on fire. We was trying to do,

1457
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,920
Speaker 1: We was trying to build something. You told me, you say,

1458
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 1: go tell Papa, somebody talk about somebody. Okay, I got

1459
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 1: him to the house. I say, Papa, somebody set the

1460
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 1: field on fire. He interrogated me. He said, was no

1461
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 1: one down there but you two boys? I said, he

1462
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 1: did it. I don't understand what you expected me to tell.

1463
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 1: There was a choice, and at that very moment, I

1464
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 1: had to make a choice. He had to save myself

1465
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 1: right from punishment, the yond punishment, or I just want

1466
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: to I just want America to notice. The same guy

1467
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 1: that said, if I have a dollar, you have fifty six.

1468
01:17:57,439 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 1: Same dude. But if I had to but harry the thing,

1469
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 1: if I had told him I did it, I wouldn't

1470
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:04,240
Speaker 1: have been around to give you that dog. So that

1471
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:06,760
Speaker 1: I had to to all that, it had to wear

1472
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 1: all of good old days. Man. But I appreciate you

1473
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:13,600
Speaker 1: having me on your first podcast. Uh. I got to

1474
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:15,560
Speaker 1: see a good friend of mine who's working with you.

1475
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:18,519
Speaker 1: Now that I got a chance to raise the NFL network, CJ,

1476
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 1: that's always great. I tell people, the world is small, man,

1477
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 1: It's really small, and you don't know where you're gonna

1478
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 1: run into people down the road. But it seems like

1479
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:30,799
Speaker 1: CJ's doing well, So I'm glad that the Shake Shape

1480
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 1: the Club Shade Shape podcast is it's gonna make it

1481
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Speaker 1: happen for it. We need to do some work on

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01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 1: that sign. But the next the next podcast, I think

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be probably be blue or green. So I

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Speaker 1: like it. I like it. Yeah, I just sort of

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01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 1: show up a little bit better. You know. I can't

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Speaker 1: tell whether you're wearing sunglasses or you got boxing gloves off.

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Speaker 1: But but it's a good looking sign regardless. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Bro all the bad Man, Yes, sir, I'll talk to you.

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Speaker 1: Then running all my life sacrifice Hustle Bay the Price,

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01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 1: want a slice? Got the broly dice to swap all

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Speaker 1: my life. I've been running all my life. U all

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01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: my life? Then running all my life sacrifice, Hustle Bay

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01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:17,960
Speaker 1: the prices, wanna slice? Got the brotherly dice to swap

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Speaker 1: all my life? I've been running all my life.