1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Hey, they're folks. It is Wednesday, November fifth, and he 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: has been on death row for twenty years. He is 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:15,239 Speaker 1: scheduled to die by lethal injection next week, but his 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: family doesn't want him to die. The victim's family doesn't 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: want him to die, and now the parole board just 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: a short time ago also said it recommends he not 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: die as well. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Roades. 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: We follow a lot of these cases as of late. 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: These death row cases usually not a whole lot of 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: hope in a clemency hearing, and we usually know how 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: these things are going to go. Got surprised today. 12 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 2: That's right. 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 3: We listened to this clemency hearing in Oklahoma City today 14 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 3: and it was fascinating. It was powerful, and we weren't 15 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 3: even sure it was going to go the way it did. 16 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 3: The board would ultimately, in a split decision, recommend clemency, 17 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 3: but it was really remarkable to hear both sides of 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 3: this case. 19 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: Well, we always think, right we for the most part, 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 1: they don't get clemency this close to an. 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: Execution almost never. 22 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: Governors aren't granting it, Parole boards aren't saying okay, So 23 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: it's very little Hope. So yes, it was shocking to 24 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: sit up and hear it go the way it went. 25 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: And we're talking about if you don't know the name, 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: you're going to be hearing it probably for the next week. 27 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: Was now the governor they in Oklahoma as a decision 28 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: to make, but Tremaine would forty six years old Ropes convicted. 29 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: It was New Year's Day, two thousand and two, murder 30 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: of a nineteen year old by the name of Ronnie 31 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: wiff and Rose. This was a kind of a night 32 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 1: of crime, a mini crimes free with him, his brother 33 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: and two women. 34 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 3: That's correct, And Tremaine does not deny being a part 35 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 3: of what led up to death of Ronnie wef. He 36 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 3: admits that he was there along with his brother and 37 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 3: as you mentioned, those two women. But he was the 38 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: only one sentenced to death out of that group. His 39 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: brother was sentenced to life without parole. His brother died 40 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 3: in prison a short while ago twenty nineteen. But he 41 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 3: is the only one who was sentenced to death, despite 42 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 3: the fact that his own brother has admitted or did admit, 43 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: that he's the one he claims to have killed Ronnie West. 44 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: So it's gone back and forth and then we'll get 45 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: into what the two sides are saying about that. But yes, 46 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: the women lure two guys into a hotel room and 47 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: then these two guys, Tremaine Wood and his brother came 48 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: was supposed to just rob the guys. A violent struggle ensues. 49 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: He's armed, Tremaine Wood armed with a knife, his brother, 50 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: Jake Wood is armed with a gun. The victim is 51 00:02:55,160 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: stabbed once and dies. And that is there we are, 52 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: and there was a discrepancy about who actually did the stabbing. 53 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: Now that clemency hearing today was and I appreciate when 54 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: they do this. They had a very convenient and very 55 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: functioning zoom link that everybody could use. 56 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 2: It was wonderful to have that kind of transparency. 57 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 3: And I understand why some folks don't want cameras in 58 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 3: the courtroom and they don't like a lot of the 59 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: media attention, but certainly in cases like this where a 60 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 3: life is at stake and we're witnessing our government, yes 61 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 3: we're watching it, and it's so rare that you get 62 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 3: insight into that, especially when you don't live in Oklahoma 63 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 3: City or you aren't able to go to the courthouse. 64 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 3: For them to set that up was really really cool, 65 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 3: and it was a learning experience for me. Even though 66 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 3: we've covered so many court cases and covered murder trials 67 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 3: and even witness and execution, I don't believe I've ever actually, 68 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: in real time witnessed and listened to a clemency hearing 69 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: take place. 70 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: Well, certainly I haven't seen one. I don't believe that 71 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: involved a death row case, end one. Certainly a death 72 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: case in which we hear from the death row inmate. Yes, folks, 73 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: Tremaine Woods spoke for himself at one point today in 74 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: this hearing, and the way they set that up. They 75 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: gave both sides robes forty minutes. They said, use it 76 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: how you want to. We want rebuttal time you want 77 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: some a witness to come up, but you get forty 78 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: minutes to do what you want to do and how 79 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: you're going to split it up. 80 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 3: We appreciated that too, because because sometimes, as we've seen, 81 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 3: after having just recently covered the Diddy trial, how things 82 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: can just go on and on and on. This was 83 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: pretty well, it wasn't pretty. It was very orderly and concise. 84 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: Forty minutes forty minutes. 85 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: Two witnesses were there, both for Tremaine Wood, his sixth 86 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: grade teacher will tell you about her comments that had 87 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: tears in our eyes at some points, and then a 88 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: statement read by his seventeen year old niece the victim's family, 89 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: Ronnie Wiff. They did not take part, however, they have 90 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: said they do not want this execution to move forward. 91 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: They have been on the record in saying that. So 92 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: Tremaine Woodside went up first and Rome's first things First, 93 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: they say, yep, he was there, he participated, he takes responsibility. 94 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: That's probably a good thing to start with. 95 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 3: Yes, And his attorney went on to talk about the 96 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 3: difference or just the tale between two brothers. They were 97 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 3: both charged in this crime, and they set a boiled 98 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 3: down to resources. His brother, Jake got a good defense 99 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 3: team and that fought the execution correctly and certainly was 100 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 3: able to get him life without parole versus death sentence. Tremaine, 101 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 3: they say did not. They say his attorney never met 102 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 3: with him once outside of the courtroom. 103 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 1: It's kind of astonishing. It's astonishing a death row inmates. 104 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: It's hard to believe. They also said that his attorney, 105 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 3: and this has been documented, they claim was dealing at 106 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 3: the time with substance abuse issues. And that he only 107 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 3: spent two hours on the case in nineteen months. And 108 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 3: what the attorney says, we know this is true because 109 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 3: literally there were two two billable hours over a period 110 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 3: of nineteen months. That's how much time he put into 111 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: defending a death penalty case. 112 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: That's kind of remarkable, it's unconscionable, but they say that 113 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: is what happened. They continue to make their case at 114 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: least why clemency is warranted here. They say the jury 115 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: in his trial didn't hear a couple of things, including 116 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: the fact that his brother admitted that he was the 117 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: one who actually killed Ronnie with jury never heard that. 118 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: They also didn't hear the Tremaine was sexually abused by 119 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: a neighbor when he was nine or ten years old. 120 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 1: They said that had impact on him. Jury never heard that. Also, 121 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: his side alleged that his prosecutorial his conduct. So they 122 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: are there kind of made their case. I get some 123 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: of the board members had questions afterwards, and it was 124 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: interesting to hear what parts they were focusing on. Of course, 125 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: his attorney's Tremaine was attorneys throwing everything in the wall, 126 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: see what sticks. But some of them were like, I 127 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: don't care about this. I don't going to care about that. 128 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: They seemed to focus on did he get a fair 129 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: trial or not? Correct, don't care who killed in the room. Yes, 130 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: So was there an issue at his trial in which 131 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: we need to slow down and make sure he gets 132 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: a fair trial. 133 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: Yes, And so that was some indication about at least 134 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 3: how some members were considering to vote. But then we 135 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 3: heard from his teacher, his sixth grade teacher, Cindy Birdwell, 136 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: and wow, this was this My heart was breaking as 137 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 3: I was listening to her talk about this bright, smart, 138 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 3: promising young student who was very loquacious, talkative, always wanted 139 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 3: to be a part of things, was an excellent student. 140 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: And just the fact that she said. 141 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 3: She realized later after the fact that he was a 142 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 3: little boy in pain and she missed it. She didn't 143 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 3: see it, and she said she still feels guilty to 144 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 3: this day that she didn't intervene in it different way, 145 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 3: in a better way, had she known what he was 146 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 3: living through at home. 147 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: I just thought the fact that she was sitting there 148 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: was remarkable that thirty five years ago she had a 149 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: twelve year old or whatever in her classroom that she's 150 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: now sitting and trying to help save his life on 151 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: death row. That's got to be just you never think 152 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: of something like that. And to hear her say that 153 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: she saw his name in the paper as being on 154 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: death row and she knew she had to reach out 155 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: because she said, Nope, that's not him. So something has happened, 156 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: because whoever this is sitting on death row is not 157 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: that same kid. It was interesting to hear. 158 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 3: And she said that they began writing to one another 159 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 3: and they developed a relationship back and forth, penpals, so 160 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 3: to speak. But she just spoke so highly of him 161 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 3: and wasn't I don't think he did it. She said, 162 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: he wouldn't have done this, He couldn't have done this. 163 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 3: That wasn't who he was. And she spoke about her 164 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 3: his brother being a very different and a bad influence 165 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 3: on him. And so she was bolstering up that notion 166 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: that it was not her student, it was not Tremaine, 167 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 3: it was Jack. 168 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: You know, even just a little note in her saying 169 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: he still to this day won't call me anything other 170 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: than missus spur well, yeah, just something about that. There 171 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: was some humanity to that little nugget of information. She 172 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: gave his niece seventeen years old. Brooklyn Wood got up 173 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: talked as well, and it was kind of interesting to 174 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: hear her say, look, I know it sounds funny to 175 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: think that somebody on death row could be a role model, 176 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: but he is, said he's helped her through some difficulty. 177 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: They stay and pretty sounds like he has access to 178 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 1: a lot of folks he's able to stay in pretty 179 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: good contact with. But it was to have his seventeen 180 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: year old niece up there, who was very steady and 181 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: read her statement was I thought was effective as well. 182 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 3: I did too, And it was sweet to hear her voice, 183 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 3: her voice there in defense of her uncle. 184 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so all this stuff we're talking about, and you 185 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: hear our tone and it was very sweet, and the 186 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: teacher and all this and then complete complete turn when 187 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: the other side gets up and starts describing what kind 188 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: of monster they say this man is in particularly, the 189 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: Attorney General got up there first, called these called him 190 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: an executioner, said what happened that night was a deliberate 191 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: predatory attack. He said, every time he's appelled, a court 192 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: has upheld the findings. Now, I thought those interesting robes. 193 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: He said, this is the same guy behind bars as 194 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: he is out in the world. They were making the 195 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: point of so much misconduct and things he's done in prison. 196 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: He said, nothing has changed about this man other than 197 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: his setting. 198 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 3: Wow, and his attorney when she was setting up in 199 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 3: defense of him, she acknowledged ahead of time they knew 200 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 3: what the process Cuschen was going to bring, that he 201 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 3: had had some misconduct behind bars, and she did say, yes, 202 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 3: he has had some cell phones, and yes he's he's 203 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 3: done some things that he shouldn't have. We'll get into 204 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 3: some of what those things are in a bit, but 205 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 3: she just made she kind of pre acknowledged what they 206 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 3: were going to say, and then said, but none of 207 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 3: those offenses rice the level of someone who should be executed. 208 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: Yes and true. And the boardman was like, that's not 209 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: the point. Yes, exactly, sow were we're getting that here? 210 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 3: Yes, So we had the assistant ag go through the 211 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 3: actual night of the crime. 212 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now she was the one who was making the 213 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: case here that Look, this is they made two cases, 214 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: the guy who was on the outside and the guy 215 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: who's on the inside. So she was talking about the 216 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: crime itself, and she went through the steps. Look, this 217 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: was a deliberate act. He asked his friends to go 218 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: buy gloves and ski masks. They use this to go 219 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: rob a pizza joint. They got the money they needed 220 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: and it wasn't necessary, and then he beats the guy, 221 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: the owner of the restaurant. And while we're talking about 222 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: this stuff ropes, they were showing like slides of everything 223 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: up there, so we got a bunch of imagery up there. 224 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: So they start going through what happens that night. They 225 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: end up in this hotel room and rose. This was 226 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: a pretty big sticking point all night. Everyone who was 227 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: a part of this who saw anything and saw these 228 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: two men, him and his brother. They say tremain Wood 229 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 1: had the knife robes and his brother had the gun. 230 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: There's nowhere anywhere that suggests they ever switched except now 231 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: Tremaine Wood is trying to explain that. 232 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, somehow, they claim because of an injury on the 233 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 3: brother's hand and whichever hand it was that they used. 234 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 3: The implication was that somehow, in the middle of this 235 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 3: scuffle and this robbery that had gone or turned violent unexpectedly, 236 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 3: they decided to switch weapons in the middle of this scuffle, 237 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 3: and Jack ended up with the knife and Tremaine ended 238 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 3: up with the gun. 239 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: Yes, that didn't land. 240 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: At all, to the point that they said it was 241 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: far fetched to say the least. I mean, as they 242 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: were describing and explaining it, how did the not how 243 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: did the weapons get switched? And why would they There 244 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: wasn't a good explanation for that, really, folks, imagine four 245 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: people fighting. We're all in a small hotel room. This 246 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: is a motel. This wasn't some sprawling suite in a 247 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: small area. You're fighting and you switch weapons. Here, you 248 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: take this one, I'll take this. 249 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 2: It's almost comical kind ofness. 250 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: But that is the point they were making. And also 251 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: Brogues they had the letter actually up on screen for 252 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: us to see, in which he wrote his brother when 253 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: they were in jail, asking him, are you going to 254 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: tell them that you called me and asked me to 255 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: come meet you at the store after the fact. 256 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 2: His brother to lie. 257 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: Yes. The suggestion there is that he was trying to 258 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: set all this up and said, and again a theme 259 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: was about manipulation. This is just what he does, and 260 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: he's doing. 261 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 3: It to you one more time, right, And so then 262 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 3: he talked about they talked about what has been happening 263 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 3: inside prison, that other setting by Woods and what Tremaine 264 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 3: has been doing while he's been behind bars, and they 265 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 3: say what he's been doing is committing more crimes, multiple 266 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 3: conduct violations in prison. He's been repeatedly caught with cell 267 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 3: phones with drugs. They actually said he was a drug 268 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 3: distributor and used the phones to carry on drug trades. 269 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: And they actually put up pictures of him. 270 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: They had a bunch. 271 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 2: Throwing up gang signs. 272 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 3: You and I looked at them, pictures of him with 273 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 3: gang tattoos, and these were all pictures he took of himself. 274 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 2: Correct with the cell phones. 275 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: They're showing all this stuff in the middle of this session. 276 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: I mean tons, It's not not like he was posing, 277 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: is that him? Or no? No, no, no, no, these are selfies. 278 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: He's a dead yes. 279 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: And perhaps some of the most damning evidence was the video. 280 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: The video is tough. There was a the video they 281 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: played was of a beating that happened at another prison. 282 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: But this was a beating that they say and look 283 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: for me would had to admit and because they have 284 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: it electronically, he was asking for this person who had 285 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: hurt family member of his I believe killed the family 286 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: member of his too, won him beaten up and sure enough. 287 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: He essentially ordered this guy to be beaten, and he 288 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: wanted it filmed. 289 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, he wanted the videos sent back to him. 290 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: Yes, and sure enough he got it and they played 291 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: it in during the hearing today. So when these things 292 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: went back to back robes, because I was talking to 293 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: you about it when one side was testifying and said, Wow, 294 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: this is right, this is powerful stuff, and you came 295 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: back a little while later and listening to the other side, 296 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, yeah, he's bad, dud. 297 00:15:58,720 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 2: This is not looking good. 298 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, but we heard from two sides, but we heard 299 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: from the man himself. Tremaine Wood did testify at his 300 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: own clemency hearing today from prison in handcuffs, and he 301 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: read a prepared statement. We'll tell you what he had 302 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: to stay had to say, and then stay see what 303 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: I was trying to do there. 304 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 3: That I do so it happens to me all the time, 305 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 3: it rarely happens to you. I'm glad to see you're human, 306 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 3: say and stay, stay with us. 307 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 2: We'll be right. 308 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: Back, all right, folks. We continue now with Tremaine Wood, 309 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: who got some really good news a short time ago. 310 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: Tremaine Wood, who has been on death row in Oklahoma 311 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: for the past twenty years now got word that the 312 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: Parole Board is recommending clemency. He is scheduled to die 313 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: by lethal injection next week, but they have recommended in 314 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: a split decision that he his life be spared. But 315 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: it's not up to them. Ultimately, all they can do robes, 316 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: and this is the case in most places. All they 317 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: can do is recommend yes. 318 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 3: And the governor in this state of Oklahoma recently did 319 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 3: not go with the recommendation of the clemency board. 320 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: Sure, I can't remember the number, but it's double digits 321 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: who've been executed since he's been governor, and only one 322 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: has he granted clemency. But yeah, one of the most 323 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: recent the board split decisions said Nope, we do not 324 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: think this person should be executed. The governor did not 325 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: go along with that recommendation, So it is not guaranteed here. 326 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: What's going to happen to him? In robes It was 327 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: the moment they gave him twenty minutes. But part of 328 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: the hearing today was Tremaine Wood getting to speak for himself. 329 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: He was sitting in a it's kind of an empty room, 330 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: no really back drops, cement walls. It might have been 331 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: but at a table with his attorney next to him. 332 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 1: But they swarm in and I don't know what I 333 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: was expecting, but sure no, they swarm and he messed 334 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: up his hand and he was handcuffed. Wow for this today, 335 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: whatever procedures, I understand. I don't know why that threw 336 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: like for this, but yeah, sure enough he was handcuffed 337 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: and he started to read a prepared statement, and I 338 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: was saying to heroes, he didn't really change his tone 339 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: or wasn't that passion. He just got through it and 340 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: read it and some stuff you could expect to hear. 341 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 3: Yes, he talked about his great level of humility and 342 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 3: respect for the process. And then this was important. He 343 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 3: put the blame squarely on himself for this death. And 344 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 3: I think that's really important because up until now, I mean, 345 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 3: even if you claim you didn't or you weren't the 346 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 3: one to actually put the knife through Ronnie WIFF's heart, 347 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 3: at least he's acknowledging his role in the crime. And 348 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 3: if he hadn't been trying to rock him that certainly 349 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 3: he would likely be alive today. So that was an 350 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 3: important part of the process that he at least acknowledged 351 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 3: his role in the death. 352 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 2: But then he called. 353 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 3: Prison quicksand he said, sometimes you can lose your way 354 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 3: in here. That's not exactly taking responsibility for his actions 355 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 3: in prison. 356 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: He vaguely acknowledged mistakes and things he's done in prison, 357 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: but it's kind of a one off and an oops, 358 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: is how he described it. The other side had pictures 359 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: and evidence and showing and from recent. 360 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 2: Right, copious amounts of drugs. 361 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: From recent years and from past years. That's been going on. 362 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 2: For quite a while decades, it sounds like, and. 363 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: So some with that. But the quicksand idea is that, yeah, 364 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: this place, the more you try to fight it, the 365 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: more it sucks you in. Was kind of a thing 366 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: he was explaining. And I'm sure he's he's right. I'm 367 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: sure he is, But he closed I thought in a 368 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: strong way. He talked about he had kind of acknowledged 369 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,120 Speaker 1: that I know my family's listening. He was talking about how 370 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: supportive they are and what he means to the family 371 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: and how they need him around it. He said to them, 372 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: I ask you to see something in my life worth value. 373 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Maybe this that none 374 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: of that matters, and they're just going by the law. 375 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: But I thought that was well said, say that and 376 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: be used in so many factor That's. 377 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 3: Of life interesting because obviously the clemency ward the parole 378 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 3: board is looking at the legal aspects of this, But 379 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 3: I wonder how much of the emotional human aspects of 380 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,959 Speaker 3: this come in and how big of a statement or 381 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 3: how much of an impact a statement like that has. 382 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 3: It probably depends on the individual. And I don't even 383 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 3: know what the guidance is. Are they allowed to consider 384 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 3: that or do they just have to consider the law 385 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 3: as they see it. 386 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: And the law we should I've meant to say this earlier. 387 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: It's similar to the what's the thing is saying? Always 388 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: forget its South Carolina the hand of one, the hand 389 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: of one is the hand of all that think it's 390 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: a similar law, if you will in Missouri. Yes, that 391 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: both of them are equally responsible for the crime because 392 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: they were both there and the commissioning of a robbery. 393 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: Somebody died, so both of them are responsible equally, doesn't 394 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: matter who stabbed whom. 395 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 3: I actually, my first murder trial I ever ever reported 396 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 3: on was in South Carolina, and it was a hand 397 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 3: of one is the hand of all and this kid 398 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 3: was not the one who pulled the trigger, but he 399 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 3: was with the group with someone who did and he 400 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 3: got capital murder death penalty. 401 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: So here is the thing. People still have a difficult 402 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: time ropes because what we're dealing with two men responsible 403 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: for the exact same crime, on trial for the exact 404 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: same crime, convicted of the exact same. 405 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 2: Crime, first degree murder. 406 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: One of them says they did it, the other one 407 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: said they did not do it. But the one who 408 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: says he did not do it is the only one 409 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: on death row that was ever given a death penalty. 410 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: So that, for a lot of people doesn't make sense 411 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: at all at all. And the bottom line is the 412 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: law is being applied the way the law is. It 413 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: doesn't just two juries saw it differently. 414 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 2: Wow, and two brothers. 415 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. So uh, he's got this Next Thursday, rights. 416 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 3: Next Thursday is his scheduled execution in Oklahoma, And I'm 417 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 3: not sure when, or I guess the governor has until 418 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 3: the last moment to decide whether or not he wants 419 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 3: to grant clemency. 420 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: You can. 421 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 3: That's why eleventh, there is a phone. At least the 422 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 3: one eyewitness there literally was a phone right next to 423 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 3: the gurney. Where it was taking place, and we said 424 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 3: split decision. It was fairly dramatic how it went down. 425 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 3: And the Clemency board, they the brobol they voted immediately. 426 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm always fascinated by that. They don't want 427 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: to take a beat. They don't even take an hour, 428 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: half hour. They get these decisions pretty quickly. But the 429 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: way they were the board, I think it was five men, 430 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: might have been one woman, but I think it was 431 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: five men. But you see them sitting at this long 432 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: table as with the shots showed. But when it was 433 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: time to vote, they did this roll call and the 434 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: first person on the end yes, next person no, next 435 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: person yes, next person no. 436 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 3: And you know he needs three yeses in order for 437 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 3: him to be granted clembing. 438 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: So it's the last one. It was going to be 439 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: the decider, and sure enough it was a yes. It 440 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: was a little bit of a reaction in the room emotionally, 441 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: but they told them to be quiet, but that was 442 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: it and those guys were out of there and that 443 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: was the end of it. 444 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: So wow, wow is right. 445 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 3: It's it's going to be remarkable to see what the 446 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 3: governor decides and what ultimately happens to Tremaine would. He 447 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 3: obviously is not looking to get out, not trying to 448 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 3: get out of being punished or incarcerated. He just doesn't 449 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 3: want to die next week and we will keep you 450 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 3: updated on this developing story, but thank you for listening. 451 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 2: In the meantime, I'm Amy Robot alongside TJ. Holmes. Hope 452 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: you all have a great day.