1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: The top law enforcement official in the country, will testify 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: before the sent Intelligence Committee at two thirty Wall Street time. 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: An Attorney General Jeff Sessions is expected to face a 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: grilling from his former colleagues, who treated him with kid 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: gloves when he testified during his confirmation hearings. The senator's 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: questions are expected to run the gamut from his involvement 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: with fired FBI Director James Comey and his dismissal, to 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: his contacts with the Russians and his testimony about those 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: contacts during his confirmation hearings. A little over a week ago, 10 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: Democratic Senators Patrick Lahey and Al Franken revealed they had 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: asked Comey to investigate Sessions for perjury, stemming from this 12 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: part of his confirmation hearing. I have then called a 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: surrogate at a time or two in that campaign, and 14 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 1: I didn't and not have communications with the Russians. After 15 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: a report came out that Sessions had two contacts with 16 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: the Russian ambassador last year, he changed his testimony. Now 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: there are reports that Sessions may have had a third 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: closed door me with the Russian ambassador at the Mayflower 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: Hotel in Washington, something the Justice Department has denied. My 20 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: guests are Ryan Goodman, professor at n y U Law 21 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: School and co editor in chief of Just Security, and 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: Bradley Moss, partner at Mark Zad Ryan. Let's start with 23 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: the question of sessions talks with the Russians. Is there 24 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: a possibility of perjury charges from his prior testimony or 25 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: if he denies a third meeting today. I suppose it's 26 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: theoretically possible. It all really rests on something that's very 27 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: difficult to prove, which is what was in his mind 28 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: when he testified originally. So his confirmation hearings, he definitely 29 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: denied any contexts with Russians during the campaign. But the 30 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: question is was he like wilfully withholding that information um? 31 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: And is the information one in which he thought he 32 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: was answering the right question. So I think it comes 33 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: down to those kinds of difficult evidentiary considerations. Brad Sessions 34 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: was a big part of Comey's testimony. At one point, 35 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: Comy testified, if, as the President said, I was fired 36 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: because of the Russia investigation, why was the attorney general 37 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: involved in that chain? If Sessions did not adhere to 38 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: his recusal from the Russian investigations, would there be any penalty. No, 39 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: And when it comes to the attorney sorry, Mark, oh, 40 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: Bradley Bradly Sorry, Yeah, No, when it comes to a general, 41 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: he ultimately serves at the pleasure of the president. So 42 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: while in theory, yes, the recusal was something to be 43 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: adhered to, it's a technical violation if in fact he 44 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: ran a foul love it, And truly only the president 45 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: can take any action. Congress can certainly, and I certainly 46 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: expect they will ask him questions about that today on 47 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: their oath to see the extent to which he considered 48 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: the ethical concerns and the extent to which he was 49 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: running a fall of his recusal. But in the end 50 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: he'll be in that job until the President demands his resignation. So, Ryan, 51 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: we've heard Chuck Schumer, the minority leaders, say that we 52 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: want assurances that he's going to keep to his recusal 53 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: from the Russian investigation. He doesn't get those insurances, right, 54 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: I think that he would have to get those insurances 55 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: also from other people in the buildings. So the Deputy 56 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: Attorney General is trying to give those kinds of assurances 57 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: since he's basically in control of the supervision of the 58 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: special Counsel who's investigating Russia right now. Um, but it's 59 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: otherwise going to be very difficult for them to get 60 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: that kind of information. And also the one big question is, 61 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: you know, how does Jeff's sessions interpret the parameters of 62 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: his recusal. That's one of the other issues that will 63 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: have to be faced today because he might interpret it 64 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: narrowly broadly, you know, for what. For example, one question is, uh, 65 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,839 Speaker 1: the Attorney General is only said he has recused from 66 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: manners that arose out of the campaigns, Well, then what 67 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: about the questions of instruction of justice? Um? If the 68 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: Special Counsel is now taking up those issues, I could 69 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: imagine that the Attorney General will say that that's not 70 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: what fits within the parameters of his refusals. So it 71 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: would have to be some pretty significant communication between the 72 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: Justice Department and the Senate for the Senate to be 73 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: informed about what exactly the Attorney generals involved in and 74 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: what he's not. Bradley in about seconds, what do you 75 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: see as the most important question that he'll be asked? 76 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: It's would be two fold. Its going to be and 77 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: it is really responding to James Colemys testimony to what 78 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: extent did he respond or address James Colemys concerns about 79 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: being left in the room alone with the President and 80 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: to what extent, if any, did uh Mr Sessions ever 81 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: intervene or was he ever asked about intervening in the investigation? 82 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: And to Michael Flynn, those are pretty serious concerns raised 83 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: by the Comy testimony, and I expect that I'll be 84 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: brought up today how important is Attorney General Jeff sessions 85 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: testimony to an investigation of President Trump, to James Colmi's 86 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: credibility to the Russia investigation of the election interference, and 87 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: to sessions position as Attorney General. I've been talking with 88 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: Ryan Goodman, professor at m y U Law School and 89 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: co editor in chief of Just Security, and Bradley Moss, 90 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: partner at Mark Sade. Ryan, how important is sessions testimony? UM? 91 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: I think it is potentially quite important if he has 92 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: knowledge of um other contacts between the Trump campaign that 93 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: might have taken place with Russia or with through wiki 94 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: leaks UM. And then of course there's this burning question 95 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: about whether or not low and Behold there was a 96 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: third meeting in which he took place with a Russian 97 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: official at the Mayflower Hotel and that was raised potentially 98 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: by Comey's own testimony, where he referred to the fact 99 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: that he could not disclose in an open session what 100 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: the reasons where why Sessions would need a he recused, 101 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: and that the FBI knew that he would need to 102 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: be recused all the way back in mid February, Brad 103 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: Comey said that he took the opportunity to implore the 104 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: Attorney General to prevent any future direct communication between the 105 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: President and him after that February fourteen meeting, and the 106 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: Justice Department denied that, saying that Sessions stressed to Comy 107 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: the need to observe proper protocols. What should as Attorney general, 108 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: what should Comey? What should Sessions have done in that instance? 109 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: Well as Thesory General and as the effectively the overseer 110 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: of the entire Justice Department, he should, emphasis on, should 111 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: have more or less incurred with the concern and unders 112 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 1: recognized the concern raised by Director Comey, and he should 113 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: have taken appropriate action to make the president aware. The 114 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: president's unfamiliar with standard government procedures, so he's still learning 115 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: about this. Make the president aware of what is proper, 116 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: what is custom and tradition terms of how even within 117 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: the executive branch, certain individuals are supposed to be essentially 118 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: quarantined from each other to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. 119 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: It's something that President is not particularly well versed in. 120 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: It's something that the Attorney General, as his top legal 121 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: uh law enforcement official, separate and separate top legal advisor, 122 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: separate from the White House Council, really should have been 123 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: making the President aware of and putting these concerns at ease, 124 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: and the fact that he didn't appears to not have 125 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: done so raises some questions about the extents which he 126 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: views himself as independent from the White House Ryan. There 127 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: has been some question of what he will answer as 128 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: far as his conversations with the president. According to a 129 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: person familiar with sessions plan, he has told the committee 130 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: he refused to discuss his conversations with the president. The 131 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: notion of executive privilege has been dangled out there and 132 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: questions asked about that. A few weeks ago, we saw 133 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: the Director of National Intelligence Dan Coates and National Security 134 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: Agency Director Admiral Mike Rodgers simply refuse to answer a 135 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: question about their conversations with Trump without citing anything. So 136 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: what what can Sessions do legally? That's a great question, 137 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: and I was going to say the same thing. It's 138 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: almost like deja vu all over again from last week 139 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: before the very same committee. Sessions, if he wants to 140 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: assert that he does that he will not speak about 141 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: conversations with the president. Must must assert and invoke some 142 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: legal basis for that. You can't go before Congress testify 143 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: and in a certain no legal basis, as though it's 144 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: just your own preference that you don't want to answer 145 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: certain questions. So he could actually be held in contempt 146 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 1: of Congress unless he, at the very least sites of 147 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: legal reason like executive privilege, said that the conversations between 148 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: him and the president are privileged and confidential. That then 149 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: that would open up a second question as to whether 150 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: or not that's an appropriate invocation of executive privilege, especially 151 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: since Congress needs to perform its role here in investigating 152 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: matters of potential legal violations like obstruction of justice and 153 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: the Russia investigation. So I think he's going to have 154 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: a very hard time with that, and a very hard 155 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: time with both Republicans and Democrats, quite likely because they 156 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: want to assert Congress as prerogatives in this domain. Brad. 157 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: We have that session of the February fourteenth meeting in 158 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: the Oval Office where I think that's had the most 159 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: conversation directed at it, about Comi's testimony, the most dissection 160 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: of it, where he said, my sense was the Attorney 161 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: General knew he shouldn't be leaving, which is why he 162 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: was lingering. Now, how do you that's an open question 163 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: about feelings? Almost how do you expect Sessions to handle 164 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: a question about that? Oh, it'll you know, it'll be 165 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 1: very interesting. That's one of the certainly one of the 166 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: questions we want to have addressed is they'll ask him, 167 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: essentially for the TikTok of how that meeting started in 168 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: terms of both Attorney Genial Sessions and Jared Kushner trying 169 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: to stay in the room with the president when he 170 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: tried to order everyone else. So we can speak to Coomy, 171 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: they'll ask Mr Sessions what it was, what it was 172 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: in his mindset, what was his room on whether or 173 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: not he needed to stay in the room, did he 174 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: have concerns about leaving the president alone in there with 175 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: the FBI director, Whether or not he in his professional opinion, 176 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: uses it appropriate. So that kind of one on one meeting, 177 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: especially given that the FBI was still investigating a former 178 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: senior White House official in the form of Michael Flynn. 179 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: So I think his description of those events will go 180 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: a long way to giving Congress and the public to 181 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: an extent, a better feel for how things have worked 182 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: in this White House and how the Attorney General has 183 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: viewed his role. Ryan in about thirty seconds, will they 184 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: be asking him about his involvement in the selection of 185 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: a new FBI director and what he's been asked. Sure, 186 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: I think that that could come up. It's not as 187 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 1: easy to predict, but you know, he has himself apparently 188 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: named other people that he thought of as better for 189 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: the job, and those people were generally thought of as 190 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 1: lacking the kind of independence that one would want for 191 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: an FBI director. So I think it's a very fair 192 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: question to raise with him, in particular about what he 193 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: thinks of as the independence of an FBI director and 194 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: what he thinks of that person ever, for example, swearing 195 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: loyalty to the President or something like that, it's really 196 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: a question of the independence that somebody brings to that role. Well, 197 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: thank you for helping us look forward to this testimony 198 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: and what to watch out For that's Ryan Goodman, professor 199 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: at n y U Law School, co editor in chief 200 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: of Just Security, and Bradley Moss, partner at mark z