1
00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,440
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

2
00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:11,520
Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

3
00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,880
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm

4
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,919
Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number four fifteen.

5
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,440
Speaker 1: Today in the show, I'm joined by Wildlife Habitat consultants

6
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,759
Speaker 1: Adam Keith and Matt Dye to discuss on the ground

7
00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,480
Speaker 1: project you can employ on your own dirt to help wildlife,

8
00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:41,360
Speaker 1: pliants and the environment as a whole. All right, welcome

9
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,560
Speaker 1: to the Wired Hunt Podcast, brought to you by First Light. Today,

10
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,559
Speaker 1: we're continuing our Conservation Month series. You know, like I

11
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 1: mentioned last week, Earth Days coming up here in a

12
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,560
Speaker 1: matter of weeks, and that seems like a good of

13
00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,960
Speaker 1: excuse as any to step away from just hunting deer

14
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,320
Speaker 1: a little bit in take a look at the resources

15
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,640
Speaker 1: and critters and places that make hunting possible. If we

16
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:08,880
Speaker 1: want to keep enjoying these things, it's on us to

17
00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,680
Speaker 1: make sure we keep them thriving, intact, and healthy. So

18
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 1: that's what this month is all about. Now. If you

19
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,040
Speaker 1: heard last week's podcast, you heard me chatting with Randy

20
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,720
Speaker 1: Newberg and we were talking about conservation and policies related

21
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,959
Speaker 1: to public lands. Now today I want to take a

22
00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,400
Speaker 1: hard pivot, focusing a little bit more on the conservation

23
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,840
Speaker 1: work that can be done on private land and the

24
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,000
Speaker 1: stuff we're talking about today. Unlike last week, this is

25
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:39,400
Speaker 1: not dependent on politicians or petitions or Congress or any

26
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,200
Speaker 1: kind of crap like that. This is the kind of

27
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,840
Speaker 1: stuff that we each can do ourselves without permission, without

28
00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,200
Speaker 1: a penny from anyone else. And I think that's pretty cool. Now,

29
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,760
Speaker 1: across the US, we lose somewhere around two million acres

30
00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 1: of natural open space to development every year. That's deer habitat,

31
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,920
Speaker 1: that's grasslands, that's homes for turkeys and upland birds, and

32
00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,120
Speaker 1: clean streams and ponds and on and on and on.

33
00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 1: All these places and things that we all value. They're

34
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,280
Speaker 1: steadily disappearing year after year after year, this relentless push

35
00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,280
Speaker 1: of civilization. It's not stopping anytime soon. So the question

36
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 1: is can we do anything about it? Now? My contention,

37
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 1: my answer is that yeah, especially if you're one of

38
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,160
Speaker 1: those people who does have a little bit of land

39
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,640
Speaker 1: that maybe you own, maybe that you lease. I think

40
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,560
Speaker 1: if you fall into that category with which I personally do,

41
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 1: I think you can do a lot, and you know,

42
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,960
Speaker 1: as I'm sure many of you have done yourselves. If

43
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,840
Speaker 1: you're in that group, you've certainly thought about what you

44
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,680
Speaker 1: could do on the ground to help your deer hunting,

45
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,560
Speaker 1: right That's where I started too. But the next question

46
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 1: is have you thought about what you might be able

47
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,320
Speaker 1: to do beyond that? Could we deer hunters look at

48
00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,080
Speaker 1: our properties and our work on them not just as

49
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,840
Speaker 1: factories for pump out dear, but as opportunities to improve

50
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,519
Speaker 1: bio diversity and healthy landscapes. Could these places be more

51
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,560
Speaker 1: than just great deer hunting properties because they also be

52
00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,640
Speaker 1: refuges for all sorts of wildlife and plants and cleaner

53
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,600
Speaker 1: air and cleaner water. I think the answer is yes.

54
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,720
Speaker 1: It's something that I was looking at and working on

55
00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 1: with the whole Back forty project over the past couple

56
00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,320
Speaker 1: of years, and it's something that I'm you know, really

57
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,120
Speaker 1: interested in continuing to focus on in the future. And

58
00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 1: it's also something that our guests today believe in strongly

59
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,120
Speaker 1: as well. And that's Matt Dye and Adam Keith. They

60
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 1: run Landing Legacy, which is a habitat consulting business. It's

61
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,600
Speaker 1: a podcast it's a video series and they're just doing

62
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 1: great work to educate hunters on how to improve your land,

63
00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,720
Speaker 1: how to manage your land, but how to, you know,

64
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,400
Speaker 1: I think, uniquely, how to do that in a way

65
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 1: where you're looking at the whole picture. They can take

66
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,000
Speaker 1: a very holistic approach to land work. They look beyond

67
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,800
Speaker 1: just deer, and that's what I wanted them to talk

68
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 1: about here today, so that we're gonna cover. We're gonna

69
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,480
Speaker 1: cover the concepts and projects and actual on the groundwork

70
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 1: that we can do on our own dirt to make

71
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 1: a positive difference for all the other critters they're crawled

72
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 1: home and the land and the water and the soil.

73
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 1: And if we can do that, I think we've done

74
00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,560
Speaker 1: our job. And oh, by the way, the deer hunting

75
00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 1: is gonna improve too, There's no question about that. So

76
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 1: that's our conversation coming up. I enjoyed it. It's gonna

77
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,279
Speaker 1: be I think, inspiration to get your hands dirty. I'm

78
00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,280
Speaker 1: excited to be out there doing more work and kind

79
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,200
Speaker 1: of broadening my focus when it comes to what I

80
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,440
Speaker 1: do on these properties. So good stuff. I'm excited for

81
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,919
Speaker 1: you to give it a listen. But before that, we

82
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,679
Speaker 1: do have two quick housekeeping points. First, as you've hopefully

83
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,240
Speaker 1: heard already, our pals over at First Light launched Specter.

84
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,920
Speaker 1: That is their white tail camel pattern. It's out there

85
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,560
Speaker 1: in the wild. You can buy products in it now.

86
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 1: Head on over to first light dot com to check

87
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,919
Speaker 1: that stuff out. And alongside Specter, first Let's also launched

88
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,000
Speaker 1: the Camel for Conservation Initiative. So what this is is

89
00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:07,560
Speaker 1: that with every sale of anything printed Inspector's camel, if

90
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,919
Speaker 1: there's Spector camel on it and you buy it, a

91
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,880
Speaker 1: certain amount of money goes from that sale right to

92
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,480
Speaker 1: the National Dear Association to help with the important conservation

93
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,920
Speaker 1: work the kind of stuff we're talking about today. So

94
00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,080
Speaker 1: I'm I'm proud of First Like for doing this, for

95
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 1: putting their money where their mouth is, for standing up

96
00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,359
Speaker 1: and giving back to the resource that makes what we

97
00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,279
Speaker 1: love possible. So kudos. Second, little heads up for you

98
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,599
Speaker 1: is that my buddy Clay Newcome he was on the

99
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,599
Speaker 1: podcast a few weeks ago. Well, he's just launched his

100
00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,200
Speaker 1: new podcast with The Mediator. It's called Bear Grease and

101
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 1: this is a very unique kind of podcast. It's a

102
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,680
Speaker 1: documentary style. It looks at history and interesting people and cultures,

103
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 1: and I think you're really gonna dig it, so check

104
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,160
Speaker 1: it on out again. It's called Bear Grease. You can

105
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,280
Speaker 1: find it on the Mediator website or wherever you get

106
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,640
Speaker 1: your podcasts. And with out of the way, enough of me,

107
00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,839
Speaker 1: let's get to the conversation with Matt and Adam. Thank

108
00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,320
Speaker 1: you for being here and tuning in alright with me

109
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,760
Speaker 1: on the line today. I am really excited to have

110
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,720
Speaker 1: Adam Keith and Matt die gentlemen, thank you for taking

111
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 1: the time to be here to Hey, thanks for having this.

112
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,599
Speaker 1: It's always pleasure, appreciate it. Mark. Yeah, this is uh,

113
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,799
Speaker 1: this is a conversation that that I'm particularly excited about

114
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 1: because this month of April, um I decided to kind

115
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,240
Speaker 1: of run a series, a little mini series of podcasts

116
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 1: here that I'm just gonna kind of call it. This

117
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,400
Speaker 1: is a non creative name, but it's Conservation month. It's

118
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,800
Speaker 1: the month of April, it's the month of Earth Day,

119
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,000
Speaker 1: So there's obviously a lot of stuff that's gonna be

120
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,119
Speaker 1: popping up in the news. Is that comes up people

121
00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,839
Speaker 1: talking about conservation and the environment and all these different

122
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,600
Speaker 1: things going on around the world. And it seemed like

123
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,640
Speaker 1: a good excuse to take a step away from how

124
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 1: to kill big bucks and instead look at the what

125
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,400
Speaker 1: big deer hunting and what deer hunting stands on, which

126
00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 1: is the ground and the wildlife and the plant life,

127
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,200
Speaker 1: and how we conserve the resources, how we keep these

128
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,680
Speaker 1: places here and healthy for us to enjoy and for

129
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,520
Speaker 1: the critters and everything else that calls them home. And

130
00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,920
Speaker 1: so this month I'm having a bunch of different conversations

131
00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 1: with people about that. Some is about public land, uh sums,

132
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,440
Speaker 1: about private land, sums about um, you know, high level

133
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,960
Speaker 1: policy things. And and then I also want to have

134
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 1: a conversation like that which I think we're gonna have

135
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,120
Speaker 1: here today, which is what can we actually do on

136
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 1: the ground. You know, it's one thing to sign a

137
00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 1: petition to save the environment or whatever to support public lands.

138
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 1: It's a whole another thing to actually do a real action,

139
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 1: take a real action that makes some kind of positive difference.

140
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,240
Speaker 1: And you guys probably see the same thing that I do.

141
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,920
Speaker 1: I I bring up this quote all the time, and

142
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 1: I know you guys know this one too, But there's

143
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 1: the Leopold line where he says that you know, hav

144
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,720
Speaker 1: an ecologist education is to um be alone in a

145
00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,000
Speaker 1: world of wounds. Something along those lines. I'm paraphrasing, but basically,

146
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,720
Speaker 1: it's once you start paying attention to this stuff, you

147
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,400
Speaker 1: start seeing all the news, you see seeing all the

148
00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,960
Speaker 1: damage on the landscape. You start noticing all the different

149
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 1: things that that could be discouraging. A few numbers that

150
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 1: I've seen recently, we're losing something like two million acres

151
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,120
Speaker 1: of natural land a year in the United States that's

152
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 1: being developed or paved over or or whatever. A recent

153
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,440
Speaker 1: report came out in two USand nineteen showed that our

154
00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 1: bird populations across North America are crashing two point nine

155
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,960
Speaker 1: billion fewer birds over the last I think it was

156
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 1: thirty years or something like that, grassland bird populations had

157
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,079
Speaker 1: declined fifty three per cent. Uh. There's a lot of

158
00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,000
Speaker 1: talk about the challenges of the rough grouse. You could

159
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 1: go down the line with all these different things across

160
00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,679
Speaker 1: the country that you could point to that would be concerning.

161
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,840
Speaker 1: At the same time, we're sitting here as hunters with

162
00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:58,600
Speaker 1: a unique opportunity because what I can see, the numbers

163
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,680
Speaker 1: that I've been able to pull together show that some

164
00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,720
Speaker 1: are around three hundred and fifty six million acres of

165
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,440
Speaker 1: land across this country are either owned or least for hunting.

166
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,560
Speaker 1: So that's a big chunk of ground that people like

167
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,840
Speaker 1: us have some kind of say over and we could

168
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,400
Speaker 1: either do some great stuff with that or we could

169
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 1: do some less great stuff with that. So I look

170
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,000
Speaker 1: at that as like a hey, there's all these things

171
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 1: that people are talking about and that that maybe it

172
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,600
Speaker 1: has caused for concern, and we actually have places that

173
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 1: we can make a difference. And so this is the

174
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 1: Wired Hunt podcast record for the longest diet tribe. In

175
00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,520
Speaker 1: an introduction before letting the guests talk, but all of

176
00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 1: this is to say that I'm hoping you guys can

177
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,880
Speaker 1: help me think about ways that we can actually do

178
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 1: something to help with this place we love, in this

179
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 1: place we call home. Is that something that you guys

180
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 1: are willing to talk about. Absolutely, And you know, I

181
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,080
Speaker 1: was happy just to hear you talking about, you know,

182
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 1: the amount of acres that that are accessible to hunting

183
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,480
Speaker 1: or most importantly, a person who's hopefully has the interest

184
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,800
Speaker 1: of trying to improve that land for the wildlife, even

185
00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,000
Speaker 1: if it's just dear, he can do things that benefit

186
00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 1: other other creatures. That's a lot of land that could

187
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,959
Speaker 1: be improved, and I think it it's all on our

188
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,400
Speaker 1: shoulders as as landowners, land managers and people interested in

189
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,559
Speaker 1: it to spread the message to other people as well

190
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,360
Speaker 1: as just pick up a chainsaw or drip torch and

191
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,120
Speaker 1: do it ourselves. And so we're absolutely all in on

192
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,120
Speaker 1: talking about it. Yeah, And you know what I'm what

193
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 1: I'm hoping we can do today is kind of take

194
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:43,400
Speaker 1: a little different look at on the groundwork because so often,

195
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,920
Speaker 1: whether it's on this podcast or in magazines or TV

196
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,959
Speaker 1: shows or anywhere, when people talk about habitat work, it's

197
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,080
Speaker 1: usually you know, how do I make my deer hunting better?

198
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,440
Speaker 1: And and that's something that we all enjoy and we

199
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,120
Speaker 1: all want to talk about, and there's nothing wrong with that,

200
00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 1: um But there are other things going on the landscape,

201
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 1: as I just meant, and there's there's a lot of

202
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,120
Speaker 1: ways that maybe we can help other species and other

203
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,400
Speaker 1: parts of this ecosystem that all are interconnected. UM. So

204
00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,319
Speaker 1: I know this is something that you guys talk about

205
00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,080
Speaker 1: a lot and think about a lot. It's it's the

206
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 1: reason why I thought you guys would be the right

207
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,400
Speaker 1: people to talk to on this topic. When did you

208
00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,839
Speaker 1: guys start looking at your work on the ground, your

209
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,480
Speaker 1: habitat work and management. When did you and I don't know,

210
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 1: maybe this is something you differently beginning you have to

211
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 1: tell me. But has it always been this holistic viewpoint

212
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,080
Speaker 1: where you've looked at all species and in all aspects

213
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,600
Speaker 1: of it? Or did you come into this with a dear, dear,

214
00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:41,160
Speaker 1: dear focus and then eventually realize that there's more to it? Uh?

215
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:47,120
Speaker 1: What's your guys personal evolution been around this? That's a

216
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,439
Speaker 1: that's a great question. I think that for for both

217
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,439
Speaker 1: of us, we've we've had similar, say, work experiences, and

218
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,200
Speaker 1: that um, the changes in work experiences has allowed us

219
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 1: to expand and o in directions that allowed us to

220
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,120
Speaker 1: really get back to I would say, naturally, what our

221
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,360
Speaker 1: roots are as individuals in the way that we grew

222
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,560
Speaker 1: up on the landscape. UM. You look, you can't deny

223
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,199
Speaker 1: the connections of the natural world and how things are

224
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 1: just so intertwined and there's balances and things like that.

225
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 1: So so we recognize that, UM by just spending time

226
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,440
Speaker 1: outside when we were young and then going into the

227
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 1: field of very heavy deer management. I think it was

228
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,720
Speaker 1: always in us that man we wanted to do something

229
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,839
Speaker 1: that was alwayser than just dear. I certainly went through

230
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,559
Speaker 1: the stage of being a dear snob where you focus

231
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,000
Speaker 1: solely on deer and that's really all you care about,

232
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 1: and then you transition later on at some point. It

233
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,800
Speaker 1: may have been different for us, But Matt, you can conteh.

234
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,120
Speaker 1: I just you can't help but notice if you're observe

235
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,199
Speaker 1: and I think that's what you know as a land steward,

236
00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,559
Speaker 1: as a hunter, um as a leacy of property, as

237
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,520
Speaker 1: a public land hunter. Doesn't matter who you are, you

238
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:08,560
Speaker 1: spend time outside, if you are observant enough or you

239
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,480
Speaker 1: crank up how observant you are from where you're at now,

240
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:16,199
Speaker 1: whatever level you are, you'll see how different species will

241
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,040
Speaker 1: utilize different types of habitat. And then when you begin

242
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,880
Speaker 1: to pick up a chainsaw or try different techniques, you

243
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,400
Speaker 1: can't help notice how then they react to that. And

244
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 1: I think that let's say, level of intensity of being

245
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:36,240
Speaker 1: observant and carefully watching that really just fueled the passion

246
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,440
Speaker 1: for learning more and more and more about the connectivity

247
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,920
Speaker 1: that that we stated earlier, and that man, this is

248
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 1: bigger than just dear. Because we see rabbits populations explode,

249
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 1: We see rodent populations change. We see insect populations changed

250
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,160
Speaker 1: by just managing specifically for different habitat types. And again

251
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,680
Speaker 1: it's all connected. Turkey need insects. I mean, you would

252
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,600
Speaker 1: just keep going the circle and circle and circle. It's like, man,

253
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,440
Speaker 1: this needs to be the approach opposed to all I

254
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,719
Speaker 1: care about is a single species of deer and what

255
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 1: they need. There's more there. I'll piggyback on that. When

256
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,360
Speaker 1: I was in my early twenties or teenage years going

257
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 1: in early twenties, I was definitely a dear focus only guy.

258
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,640
Speaker 1: And then as I grew up, though at a young

259
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,840
Speaker 1: part of my life I quail hunted, and about the

260
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,440
Speaker 1: early twenties I noticed that that covey of quail we

261
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,360
Speaker 1: always saw on a part of the farm we're gone,

262
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,680
Speaker 1: and we we saw him every other year or every

263
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 1: three years. It just was not a regular occurrence like

264
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,840
Speaker 1: it was as a kidd. And having that connection to

265
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,400
Speaker 1: small game hunting and seeing the decline in a very

266
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 1: short window and then hearing whispers of turkey numbers declining

267
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,720
Speaker 1: to me, I hit the fast forward button and tried

268
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 1: to see my life as a fifty year old going,

269
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about turkeys the same way my

270
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,120
Speaker 1: father talks about quail if we don't do something now,

271
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:06,640
Speaker 1: and so it quickly, I guess, uh, double speed got

272
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 1: into the the older how do I say this and

273
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,560
Speaker 1: put it nicely? Talking like the older man, the older

274
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 1: gentleman with white hair, that's talking about the good old

275
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 1: days and when everything was great and focus more on

276
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,880
Speaker 1: the conservation side than the big buck. And it was like, oh,

277
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,880
Speaker 1: I'm thirty years old, and that's what we're talking about.

278
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 1: Because that's what I can see happening very quickly, is

279
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,000
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about the good old days really quickly,

280
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,160
Speaker 1: and I don't want that to happen. So let's get

281
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 1: after management for a small game. Oh and by the way,

282
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,200
Speaker 1: we started seeing changes that were benefiting the deer too.

283
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,920
Speaker 1: And once you see that, you see that even though

284
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,120
Speaker 1: I'm not focused on deer, but I'm doing things that

285
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,760
Speaker 1: are beneficial to all these other species. But the deer

286
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 1: are benefiting just as much as they were before. You

287
00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,240
Speaker 1: can quickly say, okay, I'll gladly take on this mind set.

288
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 1: What do you guys think, Like, I know your fingers

289
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,840
Speaker 1: on the pulse of this um community within the hunting

290
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,240
Speaker 1: community right, those of us that that managed to some

291
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 1: degree or own land or work on land, steward land. Um.

292
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 1: There's a whole lot of different media out there, There's

293
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,400
Speaker 1: a whole lot of different people working on it. There's

294
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 1: of course organizations to help with this stuff. How do

295
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,880
Speaker 1: you guys feel about where it's trending. Do you feel

296
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 1: like we're trending, you know, more towards this holistic viewpoint

297
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 1: or do you guys kind of feel like shouts in

298
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,680
Speaker 1: the wind that that isn't necessary being reflected by the

299
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,880
Speaker 1: rest of the of where things are going. I don't know.

300
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:42,880
Speaker 1: Do you do you feel like we're going in the

301
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 1: right direction? Are we still too heavy into single focus?

302
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,640
Speaker 1: I'm feeling pretty good, to be honest with you. I've

303
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 1: noticed you you cruise through social media, and uh, you

304
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,800
Speaker 1: can see in in habitat chat rooms you can see

305
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 1: a lot more talks about Matt now we have a conversation.

306
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,240
Speaker 1: I've seen more people talking about edge feathering. When five

307
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 1: years ago when you mentioned it, people were like, is

308
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,840
Speaker 1: that something that seems like something only the government talks about?

309
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,120
Speaker 1: And and so more edge feathering talks, more pollinator talks,

310
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:18,600
Speaker 1: more overall forest health UM talks or forest management techniques.

311
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 1: Invasive species is coming up and so many conversations. I

312
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,840
Speaker 1: would say I'm very encouraged with the number of people

313
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,360
Speaker 1: talking about it, caring about it, very proactive, and their

314
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:36,200
Speaker 1: management decisions that are progressing towards a greater focus broader

315
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,920
Speaker 1: land health opposed to a single species, and I think

316
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,679
Speaker 1: that that's just going to continue to grow UM because

317
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 1: it's very collective. You capture a lot of audiences with

318
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,879
Speaker 1: that type of mindset UM opposed to just, you know,

319
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 1: worrying about inches of antler on on the deer's head.

320
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,919
Speaker 1: Not that that's necessarily wrong, it's just we can we

321
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,960
Speaker 1: can cast a bigger net with that approach and impact

322
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 1: things greater than than just a deer. So does someone

323
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,120
Speaker 1: who who at this point in their kind of journey

324
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 1: is still very focused on Man, I want better deer hunting,

325
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 1: and that's where I'm at right now, and you know

326
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,120
Speaker 1: that's what I've been focused on, and that's what I love.

327
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 1: What would you what would your pitch be to them

328
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,760
Speaker 1: to look beyond that? Would you would you give him

329
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 1: a pitch or would you say just keep on keeping

330
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 1: on um? What would you say to someone right now

331
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,800
Speaker 1: who's thinking, like, I don't know if I want to

332
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 1: listen to this or not. Yeah, certainly, I think the

333
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 1: one of the big things in that pitch that we

334
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,480
Speaker 1: would give that person is that, you know I for me,

335
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,919
Speaker 1: it's always about let's make the biggest impact with the

336
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,680
Speaker 1: least amount of dollars and the quickest amount of time possible.

337
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 1: And so I think in the hunting world, especially deer,

338
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,400
Speaker 1: we think of like certain products and fads, And I

339
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 1: almost have a little bit leary saying that, But there's

340
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 1: been a lot of techniques as like pitch to us

341
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 1: in a way that this is the ticket to bigger deer.

342
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,920
Speaker 1: But in reality, if you stop doing that, or let's

343
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 1: just say food plots for example, if all you did

344
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 1: was food plots, and for one year you didn't plant

345
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,160
Speaker 1: your food plots, and you came back the next year,

346
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,520
Speaker 1: you might see that it's a more annual base of weeds.

347
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,959
Speaker 1: But within a few years you're gonna see that that

348
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,159
Speaker 1: work that you did on that food plot is gone

349
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,400
Speaker 1: a race. You cann't even tell that you put it there.

350
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 1: When a lot of the practices that we promote, certainly

351
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 1: to our clientele on our consulting business is lasting, um,

352
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 1: lasting practices that you're gonna get bigger antlers, you're gonna

353
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 1: get healthier dear more dear uh. If that's in a

354
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 1: if you're in an area where you have a lower population,

355
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,600
Speaker 1: and overall you're gonna have a healthier ecosystem, and it

356
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,640
Speaker 1: probably doesn't cost you near as much money and headache

357
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 1: as it did when you focus solely on the deer.

358
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,399
Speaker 1: And I guess that would be kind of my my

359
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 1: pitch to those guys is just give me five minutes

360
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 1: to prove to you that there's gaps in your way

361
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: of thinking and way of management, and we can quickly

362
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 1: fix those and take you so much further along in

363
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:12,679
Speaker 1: the health of a white tailed deer. Okay, well I'm convinced. Um,

364
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 1: let's let's say now we're in a position where I've

365
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,679
Speaker 1: got I've got the deer hunting side checked off, at

366
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 1: least I've got the basics figure it out. I know

367
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 1: a handful of things I'm doing on my property to

368
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: improve my deer hunting. Um, I've got a strategy around

369
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 1: why I'm doing and what I'm doing it for and

370
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: how I'm doing it. But but I also am thinking

371
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: that I want to I want to start taking a

372
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 1: different look at things and and learning about how I

373
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,719
Speaker 1: can make a bigger difference, how I can think beyond

374
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,160
Speaker 1: just dear. If you've got someone who's at the beginning

375
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 1: of this and wanting to start, you know, just wrapping

376
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 1: their head around, like what is important? What would be

377
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 1: the couple most important concepts to start thinking about for

378
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: somebody like that? For me, like the word that jumps

379
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 1: to mind or one of the words that jumps to

380
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: mind to me is is diversity. Um. But I'm curious

381
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 1: to you, guys, what would some of these like foundational

382
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: concepts be if we're just trying to lay a groundwork

383
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 1: for Okay, if you're trying to look at improving an

384
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 1: overall ecosystem. These are the types of ideas that you

385
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 1: want to learn about and think about and that will

386
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 1: guide our actual tactical decisions down the line. Are there

387
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: a few things that come to mind? Yeah, you just

388
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: opened up a huge can of worms for the direction

389
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 1: that this conversation can go. And that's a good thing,

390
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of avenues to start with. Um.

391
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: For for a guy I think who is got some

392
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 1: dear things figured out, and you said to improve my

393
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: dear hunting Um, I think, and this is where a

394
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 1: lot of people can can branch off from and their

395
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 1: in their line of thinking is don't think about September

396
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 1: through December so much as now, let's change some of

397
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: our focus from Jane wary through August. Let's let's look

398
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,879
Speaker 1: at what the rest of the year means for deer specifically.

399
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: And then when you do that, you'll start to focus

400
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: and realize that I need um shrubs, I need woody

401
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 1: brows available, I need young forage in the form of forbes,

402
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: for lactating dose, spawning cover. I need high diversity, Like

403
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: you said, they're um of that for antler growth and

404
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: the dietary needs of white tailed deer. That then reflect

405
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 1: you know how my hunting season will go in the

406
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: months to follow. But as soon as we begin thinking

407
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: about those months outside of hunting season, you quickly begin

408
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: to look at the overall health of landscape and what

409
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: forages are available um and essentially what other ecological uh

410
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 1: plant species plant communities are available on your given property

411
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: that you have to manage in So you summed it

412
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: up diversity. Another common one that we use is return

413
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: on investment. It's kind of a business term, but we

414
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 1: we bring it in a lot for our management and

415
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: then prioritizing, and so you know, you look at prioritizing

416
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: and going, how how do I even begin? And it's

417
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 1: going where is my biggest turnaround going to happen? If

418
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: you own a farm that's mostly timber, well, by golla,

419
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,719
Speaker 1: you're a timber manager long before you're a deer manager.

420
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: You need to focus on managing that timber and so

421
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: prioritizing your farm and making sure that you're managing the

422
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 1: biggest scale rather than um looking at some of your

423
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: very small ratio less than five percent and saying this

424
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: is where I'm focusing my time when you're not having

425
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: a very high return on your investment by managing there.

426
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: So tell me a little more about that process. What's

427
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: if if I were looking at my property, and of

428
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: course everyone's gonna have a different story here, but let's

429
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: talk high level. If I'm looking at my property and

430
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: trying to think, Okay, how do I prioritize? How do

431
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: I determine what's the best bang for my buck, whether

432
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 1: that's my time, my energy, my money. I want to

433
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: make a positive difference on the land. I'm trying to

434
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: look beyond just deer. I need to start prioritizing and

435
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: thinking about where do I start, what's going to be

436
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: the greatest impact, how do I like, what are the

437
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: questions I should be asking, what's the process I should

438
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: be going through? Absolutely, and so one of the big

439
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: things would be kind of understanding our native um ecological

440
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: site history and saying, okay, let's just for example, say

441
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: I'm somewhere in the Midwest and I'm mostly a forested property.

442
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: We would look at that and going, well, priority says

443
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: and return our investment says that we need to focus

444
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: on the timber first. That's where we will try to

445
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: maximize that as far as h for a white tailed

446
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 1: deer hunter and say, okay, well, let's how do we

447
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: diversify for us. Well, we can change the age structure

448
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: of that forest. We can do a couple of clearings,

449
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: small clearings one to three acres and say I'm gonna

450
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: had everything and create young forest pockets um temporary forest

451
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: openings where I just cut everything and I mix in

452
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: a few hinge cuts and I flush cut a whole

453
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff, and I encourage woody brows UM availability

454
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: in these one to three acres and also phenomenal cover well.

455
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: And then so I step away from that and say, okay, well,

456
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: what else can I do well? Typically in the forest,

457
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: there's uh, Matt can probably I'll give him one second

458
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: to name all the forests he's been in that need

459
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: no work in them. It's zero. And so almost every

460
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: force we go into, it's shocking how mismanaged they are.

461
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: And some of them go from uh management of preserving

462
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: it to death to active management of not really doing

463
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: the right practices or over cutting. And so we'll go

464
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: and say, let's let's just try to do something in

465
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: general term crop tree release. Let's just focus on the

466
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: crop trees, the ones that are the tallest, have the

467
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 1: biggest canopy, look the healthiest, and let's cut the competition

468
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: out from around them. This is going to add even

469
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: more woody brows, it's gonna add even more sunlight hitting

470
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: the forest floor, so we get some more herbaceous plants.

471
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: And we're gonna do that. Generally speaking, let's start on

472
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: the south facing slopes or the west facing slopes so

473
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: we can get the quickest amount of growth because we're

474
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: gonna get more sunlight there and then overall you just

475
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: big scale, say how do you diversify that? And you're

476
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: gonna get that with your terrain features. You're gonna get

477
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: probably higher stem counts on your east and north facing slopes.

478
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: You're gonna get more of a herbaceous return or herbaceous

479
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: plant growth and grasses on your south and west facing slopes.

480
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: And then you can diversify your temporary forest openings where

481
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: you have them on each different type of slope. So

482
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: if it's middle of the winter, you know they're probably

483
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: on the south facing slopes and the temporary forest openings

484
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: versus the north facing during the early season when they

485
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: still have a it's still hot, but they have a

486
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: winter coat on. And I gotta that that that really

487
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: covered very quickly what someone could do in the timber.

488
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: But everyone probably has got um openings to some degree

489
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: or percentage of open areas on a farm. And one

490
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: of the first things that people want to do or

491
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: considers to plan a food plot. Well, if we're thinking

492
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: about a landscape health and diversifying what it is we

493
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: offer um and how that may be able to benefit rabbits, songbirds,

494
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: h woodland birds, ground nesting birds strongly should consider doing

495
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: a practice called old field management. And a lot of

496
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: these openings um probably have some sort of pasture grass

497
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: um in them. We see fescue, smooth brown behea grass

498
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: and a lot of openings and they're just left unmanaged. Um.

499
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: So if you remove that type of grass, let the

500
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: native seed bank express itself and do so for several

501
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: years and come back with prescribed fire or dormant season disking,

502
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: You'll get a lot of annual weeds. You'll get shrub components,

503
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: you'll get forbes and brambles, and that all serves the purpose. Uh,

504
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: lots of food, lots of cover for I mean we

505
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: can even enlist, probably in an hour, the number of

506
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: species that could benefit to some degree out of that

507
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: specific type of management opposed to just turning all the

508
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: openings into a food plot. Um. So, finding that balance

509
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: of having a food plot but then just allowing natural

510
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: progressions or or what we term as succession um. Natural

511
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: succession of plant communities just developed themselves from the seed

512
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: bank allowed that to occur. And it makes sense if

513
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: you think about it, because that's what before you know,

514
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: agriculture was even started in the US, or food plots

515
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: were ever even planted, and that's what these species that

516
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: we're seeing decline or that we should care about broad

517
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: in our horizons too, well, that's what they lived off of.

518
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: So that's an extreme decline um as well as those

519
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: those whether it's a bird population or insect populations. That's

520
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: what they need, and so let's create something that they need.

521
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: But now, at the same time that is wonderful fawning

522
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: cover and tons of food value for a white tailed deer,

523
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: or that's brooding cover for a wild turkey or nesting

524
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: cover for a wild turkey. I think in the there's

525
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: there's some some literature that suggests like three thousand, thirty

526
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: five hundred pounds of digestible forage in a well managed

527
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: old field system, whereas a closed canopy system of one

528
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: acre is roughly fifty d pounds of digestible food for

529
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: a deer. So just the value that that can bring

530
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: two deer as well as many other critters is huge.

531
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: It's huge. Yeah, I was just going to ask you

532
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: to to tackle why diversity is important in a system

533
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: like this, but but maybe just answered the question for

534
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: me when you said that you know, this is how

535
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: these animals evolved. They they they this is what the

536
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: natural ecosystem was like before humans came in and started,

537
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: you know, creating these monocultures. Right, Nature of bores a

538
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: vacuum and nature bores a monoculture. There's there's almost nothing

539
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: in nature without humans intervention where it's all the same thing.

540
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: It's almost always, always, always a diverse system of plant

541
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: life in different types of different succession levels. Um, do

542
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: you think that's it? Is that why diversity seems to

543
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: be a uh, just a key stone value add for

544
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: anything when you're trying to manage a landscape or is

545
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: there anything else there to it? I mean that pretty

546
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: well sums it up when you think about the two

547
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: main natural disturb is that occurred. You had fires and

548
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: you had grazing, and each one of those, depending on

549
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: what time of the year that disturbance occurs, stimulates certain

550
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: type of plant communities. And if you have just massive

551
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: bison herds slamming across the country and and changing the

552
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: plant communities at the same time there's fire, quickly you

553
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: can see that over the course of a hundred years

554
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: of just that, you're gonna have a very diverse ecosystem.

555
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: And to dial it in as far as just insects.

556
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: There's certain plants that attract certain insects. So if you

557
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: look at from a bird or turkey or a quail standpoint,

558
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: you need multiple types of plants that attract certain types

559
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: of insects. So therefore you have more insects in that

560
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: area than just a monoculture where there may only be

561
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: certain type of insects attracted to that plant or needing

562
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: that plant during a certain window of time in the year.

563
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: And so if you can think about it from that standpoint,

564
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: it really, uh, it really opens up your eye is saying, Okay,

565
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: regardless of what I do in my landscape, diversity is keen. Yeah,

566
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: and you just think about food availability. To go back,

567
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: go back to something that we're all familiar with, the

568
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: white tail deer, right, there's three hundreds some plus forges

569
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: that they eat. So that's just what they eat, not

570
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: necessarily what they bed in, what they need to for

571
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: escape cover or fawning cover. And so just in that

572
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: one single species, that's a vast number of plants. They

573
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: don't utilize a monoculture. So so why as a manager

574
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: would I try and have or utilize a monoculture to

575
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: attract them? And think that I'm making the biggest um difference.

576
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: But we go into you know, birds, we go into

577
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: small mammals, we go into insects, and the number of

578
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: species that they utilize this drastically different from from white

579
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: tailed deer. But it's it's not one gold and silver bullet.

580
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: I guess silver bullet to to things. And we try

581
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: and work with our clients and get them to the

582
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: idea that we're not managing a plant, we're managing plant communities.

583
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: It's it's a group of plants, and therefore at the

584
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: end of that you have diversity just naturally occurring on

585
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: that landscape. UM. So hopefully people understand that it's a community.

586
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: It's it's it's multiple aspects coming together that creates the

587
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: diversity that really will make a difference in an impact

588
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: for a vast number of species. Yeah, that makes a

589
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: lot of sense. Can you can you give me an

590
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: example of of one of these plant communities and we

591
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: could kind of use that example to then explore the

592
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: different things we could be thinking about the things that

593
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: we could be doing. UM. I mean, maybe there's literally

594
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: something you guys have actually been out working on recently

595
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: that might be a good way to illustrate some of

596
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: these things. Anything come to mind. I guess if we

597
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: want to go, yeah, old field where uh you just

598
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: look at the succession and how that progresses over time.

599
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: Let's just take a field that was a person bought

600
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: an old farm and it's got a cool season grass,

601
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: old pasture where they had cows, and you go in

602
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: and remove that and and I'm not as afraid to

603
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: say it, but it's gonna take a one or two

604
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: treatment herbicide and you're gonna spray out that cool season

605
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: grass during the time of the year when most of

606
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: the natives are dormant, and you're gonna remove that monoculture,

607
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: and you're gonna see certain species probably pop up like crazy.

608
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: You'll see common ragweed depending on the site, but that's

609
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: a very common one, pope berry or poke weed. Um,

610
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 1: you're gonna see a lot more brambles, pop um that'll

611
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: be young, golden rot will be a very big one.

612
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: A lot of milkweed typically, And I'm thinking on one

613
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: site individual, one site specific that comes to mind in

614
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: this um mayor's tail, um burnweed, possibly just a lot

615
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: of the annuals that come up, but are all native

616
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: deer dow forage on some of them, or ham or

617
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: other ones of like common ragweed is phenomenal deer brows

618
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: and you'll see that be pretty good cover, but not phenomenal,

619
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: especially not if you're in the north where you're gonna

620
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: have a lot of snow, and it may all a

621
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 1: lot of it, may get knocked over. But you'll see

622
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: over year two or three some grasses probably start to

623
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: fill in, and those grasses can withstand the snow a

624
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: little better in the wind, and so you've got clumps

625
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: that are staying standing. And then if you don't do

626
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: anything over time, you'll see some shrubs form, or there

627
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: might be the dotted eastern red cedar that pops up.

628
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, over five years, you

629
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: went from a very annual base which was phenomenal forage

630
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: during the especially the early spring, long before soybeans or

631
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: corn starts to germinate. It's green, there's forage there, and

632
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: in the middle of summer it's it's actually gonna be

633
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: kind of hard to beat the amount of forage that's

634
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: out there because it's native species that are adapted to heat,

635
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: and so when soybean leaves are turning up and not

636
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: being as palatable and not as selected by the deer.

637
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: You've got ragley leaves that are like, I'm built for this,

638
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: I'm good, and they still look great, and deer hammering it.

639
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: And just over time you'll see that transition where you'll

640
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: have still the annual base, but probably starting to go

641
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: more towards a perennial base and having a lot more

642
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: of forage from woody brows available. Uh. And so just

643
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: over time you can have that diversity occur, or you

644
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: can add the diversity by planting. There's a video that

645
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 1: we shot UM that comes to mind on on our

646
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: social media. UM. We're standing adjacent to a field that

647
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: had just been removed the year prior of a cool

648
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: season grass was smooth brome and then that butted up

649
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: to a tillable field's soybeans. And this is in June

650
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 1: time frame, and this is just year one after removing

651
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: that smooth brome, which is the cool season monoculture. Essentially

652
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: next to um a monoculture of soybeans where we sprayed out.

653
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: What came back UM was a lot of native grasses,

654
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: the forbes um that Adam mentioned earlier, UM milkweed. And

655
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: and we're standing this divide basically of of rich diversity

656
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: that that used to be historically native prairies. And we

657
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: were seeing those prairie plant communities coming back year one,

658
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: and there were quail whistling, there were grasshoppers hopping. As

659
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: we're walking out through um this system, there were monarch

660
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: butterflies floating, and we were accounting them almost by the dozens.

661
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: And then too the I left we were standing in

662
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: it was ankle high maybe Shinhai soybeans, and there's no

663
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: life whatsoever. There was no grasshoppers hopping, there was no

664
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: little spiders run across the ground. There's nothing besides sway beans.

665
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: And so just looking at the two and that had

666
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 1: been created in a short matter of time, you see

667
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 1: diversity create life opposed to a monoculture that essentially doesn't

668
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: have like an insurance policy. UM I mean but so so,

669
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: if you're playing a monoculture, it's it's do or die, um,

670
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: make or break situations. But but when we're managing natural

671
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: plant communities that are diverse, you have other plants that

672
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: that do better. Let's say you get a drought, they

673
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: do better in a drought situation, opposed to ones that

674
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: do better when you get UM your annual rain precipitation amounts,

675
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: and so you have this almost built in insurance of

676
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: habitat and forage value every single year if you if

677
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: you focus on engine for plant communities and diverse landscapes

678
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: opposed to a monoculture UM. So they're just you know,

679
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: a quick example of how those two systems adjacent to

680
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: each other. Anybody in the video could just watch it

681
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: and see, holy cow, this this is this is exactly

682
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. There's a clear difference between silence

683
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: and buzzing in the ambiance sounds that you'll hear on

684
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: nature apps of like there's all kinds of birds and

685
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: insects just singing over here, and it's not happening over here.

686
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: So in a situation like that where you describe step

687
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: one being remove the mono culture, the smooth brome or

688
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: whatever it might be in your area, and then you

689
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 1: describe you know, letting nature take its course from there

690
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: and and letting those uh whatever was in the seedbed

691
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: previously come back and take advantage of you know, the

692
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: new sunlight in space. But what if we want to

693
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: do more from there, or or how do we know

694
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: if we should do more or or do less or

695
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: just let it go or uh, you know, when it

696
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: comes to old field management, I know there's a lot

697
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: to it, so we can we can kind of look

698
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: at some beginner steps, I guess for folks that are

699
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: looking at this as a way to improve diversity, improve

700
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: food and cover and all these different types of values

701
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: for many, many species, it seems like this is definitely

702
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 1: one of those best or most um most achievable initial goal.

703
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: So so where do we go from there? Yeah, and

704
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 1: I think that's where you can look at. Okay, let's

705
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: just try to categorize certain plant communities and say what

706
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: is here, where's the gaps, Let's fill the voids and say, okay, well,

707
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: this is a field, so to speak. So I'm not

708
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: really targeting tree like oak trees. I could plan them

709
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: around the edges if I want, but let's just focus.

710
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 1: I've got acres and acres and acres of o kickery force.

711
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: I don't need that. Let's maximize what's happening here in

712
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: this old field. And I know I have a lot

713
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: of annual weeds coming up. They're all native. That's great.

714
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: One of the biggest things we want to do to

715
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: ensure the longevity of this area is to remove invasive

716
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: species and constantly be monitoring for invasive species. And the

717
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: reason we don't like those is they're not native. They

718
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: don't benefit wildlife nearly as much. If they benefit some insects,

719
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: it's a short list compared to a native plant that

720
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: benefits a long list of insects. So I just want

721
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: to remove those and make sure that they're not taking

722
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 1: over this area and not having any natural predators. They

723
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: can quickly get ahead of the native plants. So I'm

724
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: gonna do that. But I'm also looking to say, okay,

725
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: this area was let's just say it's all been grass. Well,

726
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: I don't like grass, even that's a monoculture. We've sprayed

727
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: out the smooth bone. Now we have forbes coming back

728
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: or broad leaves flowering plants. And then I look and

729
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: can I interject one quick question when it comes to

730
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: that very first step spraying out some of these big

731
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 1: grassy fields that are just nothing but something like that,

732
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: is that literally all you'd have to do? Or do

733
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 1: you need to burn it off the the dead stuff

734
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: you sprayed or mow it down or anything, or just

735
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,479
Speaker 1: by spraying stuff will still be all come up even

736
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: through all that residue on top. It might take a

737
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: little bit longer, but stuff will still come up. Burning

738
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: would be great, but in a lot of states guys

739
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: are a little bit scared or a state regulations don't

740
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: allow it. If it's me personally, I'm burning the baby,

741
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: I'm setting it on fire because it makes me feel

742
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: good to go. Okay, I sprayed this area out, and

743
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,760
Speaker 1: now I burned it, and I have a clean slate,

744
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: and there's plenty of soil exposed that's getting ready to

745
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: explode in life. Plus that burning could probably or that

746
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: burning helps suppress any grasses that you may have missed

747
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: because you're it's it's getting ready to hit its peak

748
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: performance time and you set it back with a fire.

749
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: So fire certainly helps, but it's not necessarily needed. You'll

750
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,439
Speaker 1: still get diversity. It will just come as a little

751
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: bit delayed in the growing season as it's trying to

752
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: struggle and pop through the hatch that you sprayed. But

753
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: it's not necessary. Okay, continue, Sorry, you're going somewhere that

754
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: And so I look at that, and I say, okay,

755
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: well I'm missing grasses, native grasses. I'm missing the bunch

756
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: grasses and so I can say, all right, let's find

757
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: a few areas. Let's let's broadcast a little bit of

758
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 1: a little blue stam or uh switch grass, or even

759
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: some Indian grass and big blue stem. But I'm not

760
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: going to get carried away because I don't want to

761
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: come back in five years and have monoculture of native

762
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: warm season grass. That's not my goal. And so I'm

763
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: just doing a little bit scattered around where ultimately my

764
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: end goal is to have about twenty or less in

765
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: native grasses. And so I've done that. I look around,

766
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: I say, what shrubs are here? Well, the only shrubs

767
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: are there. I'll use the Michigan reference for you is

768
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: autumn olive, and uh, I'm not so much in love

769
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: with autumn olive. And so this is where we're gonna

770
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: take lemons and make lemonade. And instead of just cutting

771
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: it and removing it getting it out of there, I'm

772
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: gonna take it. I'm gonna cut that thing down, but

773
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave exactly where it fell, and I'm gonna

774
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: key in on some of the native shrubs that I

775
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: want to see. So it may be nanny berry or

776
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: it maybe red O's your dog would or it may

777
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: be American plum Um N nine bark uh. There's a

778
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: long list of native shrubs to whatever state you're in,

779
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: and you can take those, buy them from a state

780
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: nursery or find a local source where you can get

781
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: them pretty cheaply and take five of those and drop them,

782
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: sink them in with a sharp shovel and plan them

783
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: in the top of that canopy of that of that

784
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: autumn alive that you cut. So instead of happening to

785
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: use plastic tubes and plastic pipe and then go back

786
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: years later and remove that, just let that natural woody

787
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: vegetation from that autumn alive be your cage or your

788
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: barrier and help protect that young shrub at a young stage,

789
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: and then let it grow up out of that as

790
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: that as that top decomposes. Think of it as like

791
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: a utilization cage for shrubs that's kind of protected was young, right,

792
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: so they're not getting over brows or nipped um. And

793
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: then you've treated that stump of the autumn of course,

794
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: and now you've got you've replaced a shrub with now

795
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: a native option um, and they've got to grow kind

796
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: of unencumbered or not brows super heavy, and you get

797
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 1: a wonderful colony of shrubs, which that's typically how shrubs

798
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: are growing, colony type forming. You're just replicating nature by

799
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: if you do edge feathering or anything where you drop

800
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: a tree, birds perch on that tree and and poop

801
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: out the berries, and then that starts to grow up

802
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: out of that thing. We're just speeding up the process

803
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 1: by giving a year old sapling or a year old

804
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: bear roots seedling in that in that top. And just

805
00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: by doing that, now we've encouraged native grasses. We've at forbes,

806
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: and we've got shrubs which can provide both cover and

807
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: woody brows. And so the next stage would be how

808
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 1: quickly can we get brambles into this, how quickly can

809
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: we get blackberries? And if it's not real regularly currying

810
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: in that site, you haven't seen it there before, you

811
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 1: can buy some of those and start planting them around

812
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: in some colonies, and that way you can provide even

813
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: more woody brows, but cover for small games species like

814
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: cotton tail rabbits or bob black quail. I would say,

815
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: specifically with this type of technique that we chose to

816
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:40,280
Speaker 1: discuss old field management, let time be on your side,

817
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: because a lot of the stuff that we're talking about.

818
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: The diversity comes with time and sometimes sometimes just our

819
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: human natures. We want to expedite this process. We want

820
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: to jump ahead, we want to leap frog and see,

821
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: um these things change it and we can take some

822
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: um of those necessary steps and do that, like Adam

823
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: talked about. But oftentimes, if we're trying to replicate what

824
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: naturally happened, sometimes the best thing to do is just

825
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 1: let nature run its course and and work itself, because

826
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: we're we're taking away the monoculture that that humans, you know,

827
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: put there right and now why don't we just let

828
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: the succession take it take over and and in the meantime,

829
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,959
Speaker 1: although it may take four or five years for things

830
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: to develop, let's not be misunderstood that years one, two

831
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: and three aren't providing benefits for a whole host of species.

832
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,439
Speaker 1: If year four and finds what we want to get,

833
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 1: years one, two and three are still fantastic for certain species.

834
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: And when we take that broad approach of trying to

835
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: trying to um embrace diversity, then there's a lot of

836
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: winds years one, two and three that we can we

837
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: can celebrate right along the way as nature or succession

838
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: um is taking place. Would you say that this kind

839
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: of project, this kind of um plant community, you know,

840
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: fostering something like this, it's got to be one of

841
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: the very best bang for your buck type of impacts

842
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: you can make for upland birds, songbirds, turkeys, small mammals, pollinators,

843
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 1: I mean, all of those critters thrive in these young

844
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: you know, early successional old field type situations like this.

845
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: Would you agree, Oh, obviously, yeah, for sure. The one

846
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: thing I guess, the misconception that I see correlated with

847
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: old field management and why some people may have a

848
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: bad taste for it, is converting tillable acres or acres

849
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: that had heavy herbicide US for years and years and years,

850
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,240
Speaker 1: and they don't get that response is quickly. Old field

851
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 1: is best whenever it's a site that hasn't been completely

852
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: sprayed out or tilled up in in years previous slee

853
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: So if you're if you're going with if you're going

854
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: with an old tillable field, you may you may be

855
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: better off planting a mix. To be honest with you,

856
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: and and honestly, Mark want one thing to ask you

857
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: with your experience on the back for you that your

858
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: audience is probably familiar with those fields that were kind

859
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: of left. Um, those had a previous history of being farmed.

860
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: Is that correct. Yeah, so that that what you just mentioned,

861
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: what Adam just mentioned, is exactly the scenario we had.

862
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: It had been farmed heavily, heavily, heavily, sprayed heavily, you know,

863
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: turned over for decades and then and then we picked

864
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: it up. So so yeah, we had that situation. And

865
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: what we had coming back once we left a fellow was,

866
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: you know, pretty thick stands of mayor's tale a few

867
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: places where we had golden rod, but we weren't getting

868
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: the diversity you'd hoped for. Um, and the mayor's had

869
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: likely built up a resistance I'm assuming to the herbicide use.

870
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 1: So that's why it had a leg up on everybody. Yeah. Yeah,

871
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: so that was a zy and and you know, the

872
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 1: way I tried to approach it, not that I knew

873
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: everything that I was doing. I was. I was testing

874
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: things and trying things, but we did have to apply

875
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: some herbicide and that made a big difference. Actually that

876
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 1: you know, knocked a lot a lot of that. I

877
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 1: used a pre emergent and with nothing else just getting

878
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: rid of that Mayor's Tale. It opened up the possibility

879
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 1: for so much more diversity to come in that next year.

880
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: And then we did do some spot broadcasting, frauds fraud,

881
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: excuse me, frost seeding of switch grass. We got some

882
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: of that coming back. We got some natural diversity coming back. UM.

883
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: So in that experience, you know, year one, when we

884
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 1: didn't do anything, it was a mayor's tale forest and

885
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: it was a desert of wildlife in a lot of places.

886
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: Year two, with that herbicide treatment and a little bit

887
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 1: of switch grass and a few other things we did,

888
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: we we saw a very noticeable difference. UM. Obviously a

889
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: long ways to go still, but it was a very

890
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: encouraging change just with that. So I could see how

891
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: you know, some continued TLC along those lines opens up

892
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: the possibility for nature to do it what it wants

893
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: to do. UM. But it's a little bit different, like

894
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: you said, yeah, and because I mean you're really you're

895
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,760
Speaker 1: behind the a ball when you're waiting on that succession,

896
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, we've removed the crops, let's just see

897
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: what goes back. But ultimately the seeds that were in

898
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: that soil have been killed off with herbicide or tillage,

899
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: and so you're honestly waiting for native seeds to drift

900
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 1: in and make good seed to soil contact. So it's

901
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: a lot slower of a process trying to convert old

902
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: tillable lakers into beautiful, diverse old fields as opposed to

903
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 1: a pasture that hasn't had that cropping type history. We've

904
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: seen unreal results in a matter of a year or

905
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: two years in that type of situation. I think of

906
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: of many different states and clients who are experiencing just

907
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 1: kind of singing praises of old field. But that's where

908
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: it's important to know what the what the land use

909
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: was on a specific site before you go into um

910
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: a specific management technique or or if you don't know it,

911
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 1: you don't have that information, you may need to adjust

912
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: some on the fly like you guys did UM and

913
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 1: kind of coach along or develop a plan to encourage

914
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:18,919
Speaker 1: diversity in other ways. You know. In talking about this,

915
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: we've talked about herbside use and when you guys are

916
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: on the show two years ago, we tackled this topic UM,

917
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: but I want to I want to hit on it

918
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: again just for those who maybe didn't hear that first one. Um,

919
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about trying to do things that

920
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: are right for the environment, or trying to make a

921
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: broader positive difference for the animals, for the plant life, etcetera. UM.

922
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 1: When you when you hear about trying to do those

923
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: things and then you hear about applying chemicals that kill stuff, there,

924
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: you know there are some concerns like are we actually

925
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: helping things? Are we applying these chemicals in a way

926
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: that actually is more negative? You know, there's there's a

927
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of acceptance of herbiside use within the

928
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: wildlife management community, there's there's more concern about it maybe

929
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: outside of it in a larger environmental context. UM. I

930
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: know this is something you guys are thoughtful about and

931
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: have have put some thought towards. Could you kind of

932
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: give me your two cents on you know, using herbicide

933
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 1: in a responsible way to to ensure we don't have

934
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: any negative environmental impacts. Absolutely. I think one of the

935
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: first things that I should address in this conversation, because

936
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 1: it seems like a reoccurring conversation we've had with people,

937
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 1: is the the agricultural world that is trying to weed

938
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: out and not use herbicides as much. Are guys who

939
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: are basically managing their farm that is eight acres that

940
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,479
Speaker 1: are going to get some sort of treatment herbicide from

941
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: a land manager or a whitetail guys standpoint, we're probably

942
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: on average based on our conversations and pulling that we've done,

943
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: which is which we seem like as a fair guest.

944
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: But most of our guys are managing their food plots

945
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: are are almost always less than five percent of the

946
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 1: total acreage um, which is where most of our herbicide

947
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: use comes from. And then the old fields are I

948
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: wish we had more old fields, but really I'm not

949
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: been on a property where I can say more than

950
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: of the property was old field. And the way we're

951
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: using herbicide in old field management is almost always a

952
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: one or twice treatment of herbicide and then we're done

953
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 1: with it for for a long long time, unless it's

954
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: spot treatment, which may be a few little areas here

955
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: and there to remove invasives or non natives that that

956
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: we just didn't get rid of the first time. So

957
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: there's a big difference between the herbicide use that white

958
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: tail guys will use versus agricultural now in regards to

959
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 1: do I love herbicide? No? Do I love the tool? Yes,

960
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: because it helps me remove monocultures and invasive species much

961
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: quicker than try trying to burn my way to success.

962
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: And a lot of times there's there's non natives that

963
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: you just can't burn out there there forever, and if

964
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: if you're trying to manage them with fire like Seisa Lespidisa.

965
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 1: So I look at it as a tool to remove

966
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: a non native and it may be a one step

967
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: backwards to take three giant leaps forward in the stance

968
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: of old field management or prairie restoration. And so that's

969
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 1: where I don't love it. And certainly, if I'm using

970
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: it and I'm getting it on my skin, I'm doing

971
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: it wrong. So that's kind of my mat you've got anything,

972
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: I would certainly say that I think of it like

973
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: just about any other tool that land manager could use.

974
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: Chainsaw or prescribe fire or grazing um. Those are the

975
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 1: big ones that Aldo Leopold talked about. Let's throw herbicide

976
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: into that category or or to the list of the

977
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: as a tool. You can over use a chainsaw, you

978
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,720
Speaker 1: can cut way too much, or you may not cut enough,

979
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: So understanding how to use that tool is important. Same

980
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 1: thing with prescribed fire. You may not be burning enough

981
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: or you may be burning too much. Um, there's a

982
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 1: lot of places with the country that burned way too

983
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 1: much and others that don't burn nearly enough. There's people

984
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: who over grays areas, and then there's some places that

985
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: don't get grays when they should. And I think a

986
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: verb sides as Certainly it's a wise use and a

987
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 1: very specific application. There's some instances where I think people

988
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: way over user beside, and then there's other instances where

989
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: people don't use it and their habitat is actually declining

990
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: because they haven't addressed it with the proper step, with

991
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 1: a proper tool, when they can do it very simply

992
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: in a very safe, controlled maybe it's just a spot

993
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: treatment um situation, and then the worry is essentially neutralized

994
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: in a way and they're progressing habitat further. It needs

995
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 1: to be utilize appropriately and in a controlled manner. If

996
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: there's other options, I'm going to resort to that first,

997
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: of course, But if I need to use it, I'm

998
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,399
Speaker 1: going to use it very appropriately. Yeah, the end goal

999
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: is a diverse, healthy ecosystem and if using a herbicide

1000
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: gets me there quicker than tillage, in which it can

1001
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: be argued that is not great for the soil health

1002
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 1: at all. So basically, whatever whatever tool we have to

1003
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: use to get to a healthy, diverse ecosystem the quickest,

1004
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: that's what we want to use. And a lot of

1005
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: times herbicide, uh, selective herbicide can be that best tool

1006
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 1: for us appropriately applied. Yeah, so let's keep talking about

1007
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: some of these tools we've we've talked a lot about.

1008
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: In the old field management kind of system, the herbicide

1009
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: plays a key role. Another tool would be the chainsaw

1010
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: like you mentioned and doing things within the timber forest management, edge,

1011
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: edge feathering, etcetera. Um, can you can you talk a

1012
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: little bit about how someone could be thinking about using

1013
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: a chainsaw to improve their landscape for for the wider

1014
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: the wider array of critters. What are some of those

1015
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: main things that you would be pointing folks towards at

1016
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: the beginning, and what are the key things to be

1017
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: um to be thinking about before starting a project like that. Yeah,

1018
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: I would say you don't need a forestry degree to

1019
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: be able to go into most forest and look at

1020
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: it critically and see that there is stressed, there is

1021
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: too many stems peraker, there is disease, there are weed

1022
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: trees out there that need to be removed, and you

1023
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: can just look and see that. And so there's a

1024
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: great option of you. You like the chainsaw to reduce

1025
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 1: the canopy, encourage sunlight to reach the forest floor. And

1026
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: I don't know what percentage necessarily of songbirds are woodland

1027
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 1: type songbirds or have a woodland as part of their

1028
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: life cycle that they need um whether it's reproduction, breeding,

1029
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: um feeding, but it is a strong, strong number of

1030
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: songbirds that need a woodland type setting. UM. So if

1031
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 1: you go in, you've reduced the canopy by by remove

1032
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: the junk or the weed trees that are dying out.

1033
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: One I know by research that you've increased deer forge

1034
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: by five. If you go in and reduced canopy by

1035
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: and add fire, well that's wonderful. Any deer hunters like, wow,

1036
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: it's great. I love the sounds of that. But the

1037
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: songbirds have just erupted in in that same type of

1038
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: situation because that's what they need as well. We've we've

1039
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: seen that on your guys family's farm. Scarlet tanagers yeah,

1040
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:52,439
Speaker 1: absolute and explosion of birds that aren't the typical birds

1041
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: you would see in the Ozark mountains. And and just

1042
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: by doing some chainsaw work and fire, it's all of

1043
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: a sudden we've got different growth speaks. We've got I

1044
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: mean just rainbow effect of birds, from indigo bunt teens

1045
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: to scarlet tanagers to grow speaks to goldfinches. And there

1046
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: we are nearn about birds. But at the same time

1047
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: it's providing just tons and tons and tons of food

1048
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 1: and cover for whitetail deer. So the chainsaw, I you know,

1049
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: when you ask about tools, I wanted to interrupt and

1050
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: say chainsaw and a drip torch. There are no other tools,

1051
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:32,959
Speaker 1: but herbside does come in. So um, those two being

1052
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 1: just phenomenal and and marrying those two together is just

1053
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: an amazing, an amazing thing for a lot of landscapes.

1054
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 1: And you take a chainsaw, you've got edge feathering, you've

1055
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: got general t s. I you do have hinge cutting.

1056
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes people don't really look at Matt

1057
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: and Eye's hinge cut guys, but we do include hinge

1058
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: cuts and a lot of work we do. We just

1059
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: don't get crazy with it and go more than of

1060
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: our cuts um, and we only do it on smaller

1061
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:04,959
Speaker 1: mid story type trees. Um. And just I mean other

1062
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: practices old field management. Anytime you've got fields that are

1063
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: at our fields that have a scattered, big tall tree, um,

1064
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: you could cut that down and provide more cover for

1065
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: wildlife as well as no longer being a perch for

1066
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: a raptor to to swoop down and kill your to

1067
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 1: kill your coil, or a great horn to sit in

1068
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,959
Speaker 1: there and uh go down and swipe that white tail fawn.

1069
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 1: So um. You know, if it's going to be a field,

1070
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: manage it as a field and try to get rid

1071
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 1: of some of those tall, scattered trees. In particular, I

1072
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 1: think of Siberian elms or Russian elms that we see

1073
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: so much scattered out on open areas. And the other

1074
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: thing too, is going back to that word you brought

1075
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: into the conversation Mark with a chainsaw. But the word

1076
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: was diversely. But with the chainsaw, you're you're you're changing

1077
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 1: the structure and the age of trees. You're not necessarily

1078
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 1: killing them with a chainsall, You're just resetting them and

1079
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 1: taking them back down to you know, a stump where

1080
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: they can resprout and be better cover for animals that

1081
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: are living on the ground. You know, think of think

1082
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: of the ability for a tree top to be laid

1083
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 1: across and now we've got more of a preferential area

1084
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: for a turkey to be able to lay a nest

1085
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,479
Speaker 1: in now because a tree top is on the ground

1086
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: opposed to just leaf litter um. And then the stump

1087
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 1: erupts the next year with with growth that kind of

1088
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: forms a temporary shrub um. We didn't kill that tree,

1089
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 1: We just reset it and changed its form and put

1090
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: it into a form that now allows for diversity within

1091
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: a wood lot um or or a forest. So I

1092
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: gotta take you back to the hinge cut thing, because,

1093
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, a lot of people look at hinge

1094
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: cutting is like that gateway drug really entryway into timber work.

1095
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 1: A lot of people get excited about it. They do

1096
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: a ton of it. Uh, it seems it seems like

1097
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: a good bang for your type of situation. There's all

1098
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 1: these upsides to it. Supposedly, give me your take on

1099
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: on why you would be worried about going too too

1100
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: far in that direction, or what's what's the risk in

1101
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: doing too much hinge cutting? Why should we not um

1102
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 1: go full bar crazy with that. So I see a

1103
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: lot of times with with all of our work, a

1104
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 1: couple of things come to mind, a couple of negatives

1105
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: with hinge cutting. One of the big ones that humors

1106
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: me when I scan social media's guys in your statement,

1107
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: it seems like Michigan is like really popular for hinge kutting,

1108
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: which I totally understand why woody brows is limited covers limited.

1109
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: You do. You go out in your woodlot and you

1110
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 1: hinge cut five five trees and the next day there's

1111
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: six deers standing there. It's obvious why it's a beneficial thing.

1112
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: But then you've got guys down south like, oh, it's terrible,

1113
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: it's it's the stupidest thing I ever heard of. It

1114
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: doesn't work, and it's and it's just the difference in

1115
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: the region and the standpoint that woody brows is unlimited

1116
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 1: in the South and most of the time it's it's

1117
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 1: pretty regularly occurring, but it's very limited up north. So

1118
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: you've got two different regions kind of feuding over it.

1119
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: And reality, it's just the fact that there's different needs

1120
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: for the white tail during different times of the years.

1121
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 1: For those two regions. So hinge cutting. The other big

1122
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: negative that I see with it is um when it

1123
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,439
Speaker 1: gets to when we use it too much, you kind

1124
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: of create the game of pickup sticks where it's hard

1125
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: for deer to really use the whole area. You're not

1126
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: creating an area that has usable space throughout the entire

1127
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: three acres, and so you're they're using the fringes. So

1128
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 1: if you cut just flush cut trees, you get more

1129
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: woody brows available within reach. At the same time, the

1130
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 1: deer can step over those tree tops and and move

1131
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 1: to the center part of that hinge cut or that

1132
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: area that you've been working. And so that's my take

1133
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: on hinge cutting. I love it, But then I also

1134
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: see too many videos where guys are cutting bigger trees

1135
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: with the chainsaw and trying to hinge cut, and it's

1136
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: like near death every time they cut, and they don't

1137
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 1: even realize it. That's what's another big scary thing to me.

1138
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: I think too, when we when we look at what

1139
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: happens with the end result of of hinge cutting exclusively

1140
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: will do is you're cutting the trees, but you're wanting

1141
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 1: to keep them alive. And if you do that and

1142
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 1: the dense pocket in a certain area. All you've done

1143
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:33,479
Speaker 1: is just reduced the canopy from let's say fifty feet

1144
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: in the air or hundred feet in the air back

1145
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,439
Speaker 1: down to like three and four ft. If the goal

1146
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 1: is to keep that tree alive, you've just shortened it.

1147
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: And so if you're gonna go in and do work

1148
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: intentionally to create diversity, let's cut some of those trees

1149
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: off completely, and so it doesn't grow along the whole

1150
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 1: spine of the tree, and the canopy stays alive. That

1151
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: parts dead and gone. It may come up from the sprout,

1152
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: but that gives room for forbes, grasses and the brambles

1153
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 1: to begin to grow. And then we just don't have

1154
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: a really short three or four foot tall canopy. That's

1155
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: still close canopy. We've got sunlight to be able to

1156
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: reach and penetrate penetrate through there that ultimately will give

1157
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: you that plant community. Feel opposed to just shortening the

1158
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 1: treats when you're doing any of that kind of work,

1159
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: do you ever have And I realized it's always gonna

1160
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 1: be site dependent and specific to your own situation. But

1161
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's some kind of guideline or

1162
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 1: percentage you could offer when it comes to when you're

1163
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 1: doing this kind of timber work and you're trying to

1164
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 1: make these openings, is there a size or some kind

1165
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 1: of ratio that we should be looking at as as

1166
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 1: a minimum, Like if we do stuff this small, it's

1167
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:46,919
Speaker 1: just not gonna make an impact, or is it? Hey,

1168
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: whatever you can do is is better than nothing? Like

1169
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: how do you approach that? Because I gotta believe some

1170
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 1: people are thinking, Man, I can't imagine getting out there

1171
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 1: and cutting five acres a timber or an acre or

1172
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: half acre that this might be intimidating for someone. Give

1173
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:05,040
Speaker 1: me a little insight there. Absolutely, and and so I

1174
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: would say this as an as my best guestimate for

1175
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: anybody that's listening. UM, if they have timber and they

1176
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 1: haven't done anything in their timber, just cutting trees will

1177
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: show an increase to to the deer in the wildlife.

1178
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 1: Because most of our forests doesn't really matter what state,

1179
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 1: But there's probably a listener that's got a chunk of

1180
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 1: woods and it's overstocked and it's unmanaged, and so just

1181
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 1: cutting some trees will certainly benefit the deer. UM identify

1182
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 1: the ones that are weak or unhealthy. UM and and

1183
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: just then them back. But as far as trying to

1184
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 1: create the response that Matt and I are really looking for,

1185
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: which has the diversity of forbes and grasses or sedges

1186
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 1: and rushes depending on the site, um and then getting

1187
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 1: that those saplings or those stump sprouts that really start

1188
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: growing back, you really kind of need to be a

1189
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 1: above a half acre to to see that response. If

1190
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: you go any less than a half acre, you're probably

1191
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: going to see an explosion of more brambles or invasives

1192
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: that can grow in that semi shade better than that

1193
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 1: full sun. So those forbes and grasses sages that we're

1194
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 1: really looking for need more sunlight. And so if you

1195
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 1: only give them a limited amount and you do that

1196
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 1: semi shade or thin the understory, you're gonna see a

1197
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 1: lot of brambles fill in or coralberry uh and in

1198
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: much of the Midwest, or buckbrush another common name for it.

1199
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 1: And you'll see those fill in and you'll say, yeah,

1200
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 1: that didn't really work. Was because you didn't get the

1201
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:41,840
Speaker 1: amount of sunlight you really needed to get the plant

1202
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 1: response that we're looking and that's likely based on the

1203
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: size a half acre and size you've got to consider

1204
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: the way the sun's moving across the sky, and the

1205
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: height of the trees may block more of that half

1206
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 1: acre open if they're taller opposed to shorter trees. So

1207
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 1: generally speaking, we want to go that acre ish type

1208
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: and size. And we know at that point, no matter

1209
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 1: whether it's winter or it's summer, no matter how the

1210
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: sun is moving across the sky, and no matter what

1211
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 1: the tree sizes around, I'm gonna get sunlight into this

1212
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 1: unit at some point throughout the day and it's going

1213
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 1: to be enough to generate that type of response that

1214
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 1: we want. And so we really really focus and look

1215
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 1: at um the exposure, so so topography, how the sun

1216
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: is gonna move across an area, whether it's south facing,

1217
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 1: west facing, north facing before we cut, and that that

1218
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 1: helps to determine size um of those of those types

1219
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 1: of cuts. I mean, it's sunlights. It's very very minimum.

1220
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 1: The most important thing if you're trying to get sunlight

1221
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 1: into your house just ripped. So I guess my my

1222
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: example of this would be take your ceiling and your

1223
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 1: and your roof off your house, and all you have

1224
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: our walls. If you're in one room, one real small room,

1225
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: the sun can grow across the full sky and you

1226
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 1: barely You probably could stay in the in the shade

1227
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: all day just from the shade of the walls. And

1228
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:11,599
Speaker 1: that's the surrounding trees for these cuts. So you really

1229
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 1: need to get big so you can get sunlight into

1230
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 1: that forest floor. And I would say you to the

1231
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 1: person who's like, holy cow, guys, one whole acre, there's

1232
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 1: probably not one whole acre of young forest regeneration if

1233
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:29,960
Speaker 1: if majority of your timber around us close canopy and

1234
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 1: and now you just created a limited resource. And now

1235
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 1: you create something that that you're gonna frequent too, that's

1236
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 1: got a high concentration of food, and if you treat

1237
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: it securely, you're gonna daylight there a lot. And so yes,

1238
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: it may sound intimidating, but at the same time, you

1239
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:50,639
Speaker 1: just created something that that is very difficult and most

1240
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:54,560
Speaker 1: portions of the country to find habitat or plant communities

1241
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,639
Speaker 1: that resemble that. So I got a question about this

1242
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 1: specific scenario and in a person example, um on our

1243
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:07,799
Speaker 1: on our family hunting property up in northern Michigan. We've

1244
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:12,520
Speaker 1: got a section of our property that is a monoculture

1245
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:17,759
Speaker 1: of hemlocks. So that's like a big These are old

1246
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 1: mature hemlocks, that's an evergreen species. UM. I don't know

1247
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 1: they're they're six ft tall something like that. There's there's

1248
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: no understory at all. It's it's just a big Why

1249
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 1: don't been ten fifteen acres of pine needles on the

1250
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 1: ground and dead branches on the ground and otherwise like

1251
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:42,679
Speaker 1: a park? Um. And then you know this dense cover

1252
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: up top. And I always looked at that, or more

1253
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 1: recently looked at that. I thought, geez, this is like

1254
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 1: a desert for wildlife most of the year, um, most

1255
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,679
Speaker 1: of the time. And there's a little bit of pass

1256
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 1: through traffic, but nothing's using it throughout most of the year.

1257
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 1: And we had a forester out though couple of years ago,

1258
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:02,680
Speaker 1: and he was looking at the property and stuff, and

1259
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 1: you know, one of the ideas I had had is

1260
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:07,640
Speaker 1: something like what you describe. You know, we should we

1261
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 1: should cut some of this down, we should do something

1262
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:13,120
Speaker 1: with it. And he recommended we not do that because

1263
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: of the wintering needs of deer up in northern Michigan.

1264
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 1: And you know the thermal cover that evergreens like that

1265
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 1: would provide. Um I and I get that, but at

1266
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 1: the same time, I thought, man, there's got to be

1267
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 1: a little bit we could do with it. But but

1268
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 1: what's your take on a situation like that where, um,

1269
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 1: there is a purpose to thermal cover like a big

1270
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: stand like that. But again, I don't know what are

1271
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that. My this guy's take was that

1272
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 1: you shouldn't you shouldn't cut any of it, even though

1273
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:44,679
Speaker 1: it's fifteen acres of of a dead zone for most

1274
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 1: of the year. Um, what are your thoughts on that

1275
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 1: situation specifically or more generically for other people that might

1276
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 1: have something like that. Absolutely, and that's where diversity is

1277
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,719
Speaker 1: keen in in our book, because you look at that area. Sure,

1278
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 1: it's it's good cover. So you know in the categories

1279
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:07,680
Speaker 1: of cover, food, water, security, it's good cover. Now if

1280
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 1: you stay out of there, it's probably secure. So it

1281
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 1: feels okay. So yeah, it's it's tall now, so there's

1282
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 1: no there's no like ground level cover. The only cover

1283
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: is above you. It's cover for this deep snow, I'm

1284
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:23,719
Speaker 1: assuming is what he's talking about. So you're you're going

1285
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 1: into late winter or midwinter through whenever the snow melts.

1286
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 1: That's when it's good. That's when it's good cover. But

1287
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 1: even during that time frame, deer still have to eat.

1288
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: And that's where I'm like it. Good cover does me

1289
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:44,040
Speaker 1: no good if there's no food close in close proximity

1290
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:46,640
Speaker 1: to that. And so if you can find a way

1291
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 1: for me anything fifteen acres twenty acres of the same thing,

1292
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 1: I'm going, how do I diversify that? And so I

1293
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,280
Speaker 1: would look at it, most likely just in my best

1294
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: guess and say, there's probably somewhere in there where uh,

1295
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 1: we open up two areas that are two acres apiece

1296
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 1: and we try to get young forest for generation because

1297
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: that's king in the north, and try to get some

1298
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 1: food and uh, and still utilize that that those hemlocks

1299
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: is as quality winter cover in the snow. But even still,

1300
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 1: I'm not going to rank it very high on my

1301
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 1: list of benefit um for for the very reason that

1302
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 1: what are the two things during the winter you need?

1303
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 1: You need to be in the sun preferably and out

1304
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: of the wind. And so if the wind, if it's

1305
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 1: wide open underneath it and the wind can hel through

1306
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 1: there you've brought an umbrella as a wind block, it

1307
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:44,040
Speaker 1: doesn't really do much good. That is the biggest I

1308
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:49,600
Speaker 1: think misconception misunderstanding of of evergreens. I think they're fantastic

1309
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 1: for thermal cover if they're in the right density as

1310
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 1: well as height. So so let's take some of those

1311
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 1: hemlocks away, we get sunlight to able to penetrate through there,

1312
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 1: and then we're probably going to have more hemlock regeneration

1313
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:07,639
Speaker 1: because that's what the site is, and they've been dropping

1314
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 1: um cones there and stuff for many, many years. So

1315
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna have some then that are shorter coming back,

1316
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 1: and that's where that you're gonna have actually now some cover,

1317
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: but the sunlight throughout the day is actually gonna be

1318
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:24,760
Speaker 1: able to penetrate in there into this let's say ten

1319
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 1: fifteen acre unit, opposed to them being evergreens and not

1320
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,639
Speaker 1: getting sunlight. So we've got energy in there. And then

1321
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: some of the taller trees with the higher branches, once

1322
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: you get sunlight in there, their purpose is to hold

1323
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:42,479
Speaker 1: the heat in throughout the day. But if all you

1324
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 1: have our giant tall trees, it's blocking sun you're not

1325
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 1: getting sunlight into there, so there's nothing well warm throughout

1326
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: them to hold throughout the nighttime. So you have to

1327
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 1: have not only diversity in height, but you know, let's

1328
01:15:57,400 --> 01:16:00,640
Speaker 1: let's cut some let's get some h diversity of evergreens

1329
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:04,080
Speaker 1: in there, but we really need to focus on sunlight

1330
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: for it to be let's used as much for thermal

1331
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 1: cover opposed to the where it stands right now. Yeah. Yeah,

1332
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 1: that that certainly makes a lot of sense to me.

1333
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 1: Um along the lines of the sun, you know, talking

1334
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: about sunlight and sun availability and everything like that. It

1335
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 1: makes me wonder if the topic of the project of

1336
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 1: edge feathering is is a particularly handy opportunity because when

1337
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 1: you're operating on edges, sun is a much more available commodity.

1338
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:39,639
Speaker 1: So for people that are trying to start some kind

1339
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 1: of timber work but maybe aren't quite at the level

1340
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 1: of doing acre or two acre type openings, is edge

1341
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 1: Is edge feathering a way to start? And can you

1342
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:52,760
Speaker 1: just expand on what that is the impact that can

1343
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 1: have on you know, all these other species and how

1344
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 1: they use edge Uh, totally. I love edge feathering. I

1345
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 1: would say for listeners in the North, if all the

1346
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 1: only cutting they've done is the edge feathering, be prepared

1347
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 1: to bump deer on the edge of the food plots,

1348
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 1: because if you don't have quality cover and all you

1349
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 1: do is edge feather. You're gonna see deer most likely

1350
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:16,800
Speaker 1: betting in and around those tops because that is the

1351
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: best cover in the neighborhood. So in order of prioritizing,

1352
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 1: we're trying to move the cover typically away from the

1353
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 1: food plots or the roads, to where the deer are

1354
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 1: betted there during the day and you don't have to

1355
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:33,040
Speaker 1: worry about bumping them as you're moving around the property. Now,

1356
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 1: to answer your question about edge feathering, it is one

1357
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 1: of the I mean it's it's a very very good

1358
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: tool for improving habitat while also enhancing your hunting. And

1359
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:49,640
Speaker 1: I mean that by if you fell trees a certain direction,

1360
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: we basically call it closed or open edge feathering. If

1361
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:57,520
Speaker 1: you close edge feathering, you cut more trees per parallel

1362
01:17:57,560 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 1: with the field edge, so it creates on most natural

1363
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:04,720
Speaker 1: barrier and so deer don't travel through it. But it's

1364
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:07,639
Speaker 1: also during the winter months when season is over, they're

1365
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 1: going to get in there and eat those tree tops

1366
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 1: or eat those stumps sprouts, so you're still providing woody brows,

1367
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 1: but it also helps block them to entering a food

1368
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 1: plot wherever you lay it out, so you can bring

1369
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 1: deer closer to your tree stand on whatever side of

1370
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 1: the food plot you have, while also improving your food

1371
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:28,800
Speaker 1: plot because you don't have those trees competing with the

1372
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:32,759
Speaker 1: vegetation right up against the drip line from those trees.

1373
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 1: And so overall it's a it's a phenomenal tool, not

1374
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,720
Speaker 1: just for deer, but many many other species. And I'm

1375
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:42,840
Speaker 1: glad you made that connection mark with the importance of

1376
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:47,560
Speaker 1: sunlight to where you're cutting to get that that response

1377
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:50,880
Speaker 1: that we really want um that are going to bring

1378
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 1: value to white tailed deer. I mean, we've always heard

1379
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 1: that deer creatures of the edge. Well a lot of

1380
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 1: that's because where that's where there's sunlight, and that's what

1381
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 1: grows the species that they want UM to be foraging

1382
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,120
Speaker 1: on or their utilizing for cover. So if they like,

1383
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 1: and I'm air quoting the edge so much, why don't

1384
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:14,760
Speaker 1: we create a better edge. Why don't we Why don't

1385
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 1: we make a larger transitional area UM to to encourage

1386
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 1: more of that growth. I mean, it just makes more

1387
01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:24,639
Speaker 1: sense to be able to to do that. So there

1388
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 1: is a strong correlation between sunlight and UM you know,

1389
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 1: getting the benefits out of the plant communities that we

1390
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:34,840
Speaker 1: can create for for deer and then gosh, the whole

1391
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,120
Speaker 1: host of other species. I mean, we we did a

1392
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:42,760
Speaker 1: podcast specifically on edge fathering, and we stopped ourselves at

1393
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 1: the ten different points to be made as to why

1394
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: you should do this practice. We could have gone on

1395
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 1: for probably ten more, but it's it's not valuable. And

1396
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 1: you know you mentioned that you know deer edge species,

1397
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:00,640
Speaker 1: but I think, I mean, I'm having tempt thinking of

1398
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: any species that any kind of animal that doesn't prefer

1399
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 1: or relate to edges like edge edge habitat is a

1400
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 1: premier habitat zone for almost everything, whether you're talking fish

1401
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:16,840
Speaker 1: or deer, or birds or rabbits. I mean, just there's

1402
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: so many benefits to these junctures between habitat types. If

1403
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:23,000
Speaker 1: you're on the edge of something where you can get

1404
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:25,560
Speaker 1: one thing quickly in this direction, one thing quickly in

1405
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:28,840
Speaker 1: the other direction, that just it just seems to almost

1406
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 1: be a universally beneficial thing for all sorts of critters. Um.

1407
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 1: I mean, is there an exception to that or do

1408
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:39,719
Speaker 1: you think that's true? Oh? I totally think it's true.

1409
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:42,639
Speaker 1: It's it's just there's so much more diversity of occurs

1410
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 1: on those on those edges. Because of the different plant communities,

1411
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: and they have the ability to be cover food. I'm

1412
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:51,280
Speaker 1: in food now, I'm in cover, and they can bounce

1413
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 1: back and forth, and in other aspects they can have

1414
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 1: pretty good cover and pretty good food and still use

1415
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,880
Speaker 1: that edge as a as an opportunity to use the

1416
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:05,759
Speaker 1: diversity and benefit from it. Yeah, so, so best practices

1417
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: when it comes to edge feathering. Is there anything you'd

1418
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 1: mentioned for people that want to start giving that a try?

1419
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:15,760
Speaker 1: And and yeah, that's practice, I guess I was leave

1420
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: it there without rambling. Don't where are your chainsaw gear,

1421
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 1: helmet chaps, safety glasses, gloves, And try to identify the

1422
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,840
Speaker 1: trees if you're kind of new to chain sawing, identify

1423
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 1: the trees that have a good a decent lean on

1424
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 1: them that aren't huge, so even if you do mess up,

1425
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 1: it's not going to kill you. And just try to

1426
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:43,639
Speaker 1: thin the edge and put some canopy on the ground

1427
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:48,320
Speaker 1: and try to cut the small trees first, um or

1428
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:51,720
Speaker 1: the trees that are easiest to drop first, and just

1429
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 1: take it with take it slowly and just see the

1430
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 1: change happen. And uh, don't get carried away and think

1431
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:01,200
Speaker 1: that you've got to get a twenty yards stripped from

1432
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 1: the field. So go from your food plot edge your

1433
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 1: cockfield and you say I have to go twenty yards

1434
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 1: in Noah, fans or butts, I'm doing it. Just feather

1435
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:12,880
Speaker 1: the edge and and over time, okay, once you get

1436
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:15,439
Speaker 1: more confident with the chainsaw, start cutting more trees. But

1437
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 1: ultimately the point of it all is just to put

1438
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:23,639
Speaker 1: structure on the ground and get more sunlight into further

1439
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:27,799
Speaker 1: into the forest and provide a limited resource of woody

1440
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 1: brows and structure for cover. And I would say, don't

1441
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 1: force a tree in direction it does not want to go.

1442
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 1: Safety first. When that tree is down, get a tractor

1443
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:39,760
Speaker 1: or a skid steer and push it where it needs

1444
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:43,360
Speaker 1: to go. That's totally fine and and a acceptable And

1445
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:47,640
Speaker 1: obviously you're creating more light in an area. So always

1446
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:51,599
Speaker 1: be mindful. Um if the invasive species are of concern

1447
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 1: in your area. UM birds love to sit along the

1448
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 1: edge of fields on limbs, so they may deposit seeds there.

1449
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 1: So it's not a one and done practice. You may

1450
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 1: need to go back and and spot treats something that

1451
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 1: comes back. That's a that's a invasive species, So be

1452
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:12,840
Speaker 1: watchful in the next couple of years. Um, but just

1453
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 1: do it. I'll take a step a step backwards and say,

1454
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,040
Speaker 1: if you are cutting into an old field area that

1455
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 1: has a cool season base below it, try to spray

1456
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 1: out that cool season first before you drop the trees,

1457
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 1: and and you'll be much better off than trying to

1458
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 1: spray that cool season out from treetops lane on top

1459
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:32,880
Speaker 1: of it. And you know, we say, there's so many

1460
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:35,080
Speaker 1: of our practices. The worst thing you can do is

1461
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:40,000
Speaker 1: do nothing. Um. Many places in the country the habitat

1462
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:45,720
Speaker 1: is very poor, um stagnant. Yeah, it's just just stagnant.

1463
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 1: It's been preserved to death or been just idle till

1464
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:52,720
Speaker 1: a point that it's unhealthy. And so the worst thing

1465
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: you could do is let it continue to be that way.

1466
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: We're pretty aggressive land managers and aggressive conservationists, and I

1467
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:02,320
Speaker 1: want result. It's fast, life's short. Let's get some things going.

1468
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:04,720
Speaker 1: And so let's just cut some trees along the edge.

1469
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:08,599
Speaker 1: See what happens. Don't get ourselves hurt. And uh, if

1470
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:11,599
Speaker 1: you don't do it exactly perfect the first time, we'll

1471
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:14,880
Speaker 1: go back in a few months and cut some more trees.

1472
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 1: There's no shortage of trees, right, and historically, here's a

1473
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:21,880
Speaker 1: good thing historically, and in a lot of areas if

1474
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:27,560
Speaker 1: you had this just junction of timber and fields, naturally

1475
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 1: that that would have burned. That field would have burned,

1476
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 1: and so it would have probably ran across or screamed

1477
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 1: across at a fast pace and slammed into that wood lot.

1478
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 1: So we would have had this, if you will, almost

1479
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:44,559
Speaker 1: messy shrubby um conjunction of some dead trees and and

1480
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:49,080
Speaker 1: lots of sunlight getting in and grasses and brambles. I'm

1481
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 1: not gonna say it was the most aesthetically appealing, let's say,

1482
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 1: junction of of field and timber um, but it was

1483
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 1: useful and wildlife loved it. And there's a lot of

1484
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:02,719
Speaker 1: food and cover in there. So it may not look

1485
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 1: the most appealing when it's said and done, but my god,

1486
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:10,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna see some wildlife use it. Yeah. That's a perfect,

1487
01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:13,320
Speaker 1: perfect segue too, because like you mentioned, Adam, you know,

1488
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of land now that is lacking

1489
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:22,520
Speaker 1: any kind of disturbance, and you know, Mother Nature's disturbance

1490
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:26,360
Speaker 1: of choice over the eons has historically been fire, like

1491
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:31,000
Speaker 1: you mentioned, which is you know less. So now we're changing,

1492
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 1: But for a long time fire was almost eradicated from

1493
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:38,120
Speaker 1: the landscape by virtue of people trying to stop and

1494
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 1: you know, end any fire, you know, shut down any fire. Now,

1495
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,600
Speaker 1: of course people are realizing the value of fire and

1496
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 1: starting to starting to let fires run or manage them

1497
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 1: a little bit more, or run prescribed fires and whatnot.

1498
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 1: But you know, even today, man made fire, when done appropriately,

1499
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 1: of course, is still an incredible tool, but it is

1500
01:25:57,320 --> 01:26:00,720
Speaker 1: an intimidating one for a lot of people. Um, it's

1501
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 1: the final tool of the three you mentioned. We got

1502
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,880
Speaker 1: to talk about it. Can you guys run me through

1503
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 1: a beginner's guide to fire, but again with a unique

1504
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:14,160
Speaker 1: angle of not just deer, but but all these other things. Um,

1505
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:18,800
Speaker 1: you hear about prescribed fire a lot um but you

1506
01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:20,720
Speaker 1: know it's not mentioned as much, but I know it

1507
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 1: does a ton for all these other things, turkeys, birds, insects.

1508
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:26,920
Speaker 1: I mean, fire might be number one for a lot

1509
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:31,719
Speaker 1: of that, absolutely, and I think that that's uh, there's

1510
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:33,840
Speaker 1: a reason for that. I mean you said it best

1511
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:39,599
Speaker 1: is historically it was one of the biggest disturbances used. Um,

1512
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 1: I mean that and grazing there there. It is that

1513
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:44,880
Speaker 1: if you want to shape a landscape grazing and fire.

1514
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 1: Let's do it. And uh, with prescribed fire, it is

1515
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:51,479
Speaker 1: very scary, UM, and we should have massive amounts of

1516
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:56,600
Speaker 1: respect for it. UM. Smoky scared us to death for it. UM.

1517
01:26:56,720 --> 01:27:00,960
Speaker 1: But our plants are native plants in most of the

1518
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 1: places in the country. UM, we're shaped by fire. And

1519
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:09,320
Speaker 1: if we want to create healthy landscapes, we take a

1520
01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 1: landscape and we manage it with native disturbance, and prescribe

1521
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 1: fire comes in with that. And UH, I think for

1522
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 1: a beginner, what do we do? First, contact our state

1523
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 1: agency or government agency wherever we're at and see if

1524
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:30,040
Speaker 1: there's any prescribed fireworkshops, see what even the regulations are.

1525
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:32,519
Speaker 1: There's a lot of states where you can't even you

1526
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:34,320
Speaker 1: can't just go and burn when you want to burn.

1527
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 1: There's certain time windows or frankly, there's not even the

1528
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 1: ability for some of you guys out there that unfortunately

1529
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: your state doesn't allow it to be used regularly. UM.

1530
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 1: So just find out the information about it and then

1531
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 1: try to find some courses or classes where they have

1532
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 1: the education in place. Missouri has a great prescribed fire

1533
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:59,200
Speaker 1: course where landowners can take and get the experience. Go

1534
01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:02,479
Speaker 1: to the field old actually burn some akers. See how

1535
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,960
Speaker 1: it's going, I know, uh, and see how it reacts

1536
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 1: in grasses or leaf litter if it's a head fire,

1537
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 1: backing fire, how terrain plays in There's so many things

1538
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 1: about prescribed fire that we need to understand. Now that's

1539
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:22,920
Speaker 1: not to get that. Hopefully it doesn't overwhelm you, because

1540
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:25,880
Speaker 1: fire can beat you. Know. If you're doing backing fire

1541
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 1: down slopes, it's pretty boring and you'll probably think, boy,

1542
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:33,479
Speaker 1: I was scared of this, But then you go to

1543
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:35,519
Speaker 1: the bottom and you light it like let's speed things up,

1544
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:38,720
Speaker 1: and then quickly you're scared and uh, and so are

1545
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:43,200
Speaker 1: your neighbors. And so that's something where just educating yourself

1546
01:28:43,240 --> 01:28:46,880
Speaker 1: first and foremost on if it's possible for you, and

1547
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:50,080
Speaker 1: then just trying to get the education with government agencies

1548
01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:54,599
Speaker 1: on on prescribed fire courses. Uh any infield. Of course

1549
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 1: they take some volunteers. We used to have volunteers when

1550
01:28:57,320 --> 01:28:59,599
Speaker 1: I worked for the Department of Conservation, where people would

1551
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 1: come to get the experience and uh. And so all

1552
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 1: that to be said is that's the first and foremost

1553
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:09,320
Speaker 1: on prescribed fire. And I would say, let's let's compare

1554
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:11,360
Speaker 1: that just real quickly to the first time you picked

1555
01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 1: up a chainsaw. Most people with a little bit of

1556
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:18,439
Speaker 1: experience of running a chainsaw, they're comfortable with it, they're

1557
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:21,280
Speaker 1: comfortable utilizing it. But the first time they used it,

1558
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:24,080
Speaker 1: they knew that this tool could potentially harm them and

1559
01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 1: they needed experience with it before they were proficient with it.

1560
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 1: And so think of fire and utilizing fire kind of

1561
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 1: like that. You should have a healthy fear, but you

1562
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 1: should really have an understanding of how to utilize the tool,

1563
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:39,879
Speaker 1: how to fill a tree, how to run that chainsaw safely,

1564
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:44,560
Speaker 1: take the necessary precautions, and then use the tool as designed.

1565
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:47,480
Speaker 1: And really, if you do those you take those measures,

1566
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 1: it's a wonderful, fantastic tool. I I I can think

1567
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:55,559
Speaker 1: in the last two days two clients UM that have

1568
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:59,360
Speaker 1: applied prescribed fire to their properties for the first time ever,

1569
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 1: one in Virginia and one in Missouri, and they loved it.

1570
01:30:04,200 --> 01:30:08,160
Speaker 1: They're fantastic, but it took them education, UM and knowledge

1571
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:14,280
Speaker 1: to be able to apply it appropriately. And it changes composition,

1572
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 1: it changes structure, and it manages plant communities on a

1573
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:22,920
Speaker 1: large scale. Opposed to a chainsaw, you can only go

1574
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:27,840
Speaker 1: so fast or cover so much ground. And acres when

1575
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:31,360
Speaker 1: running a chainsaw, but prescribe fire in an afternoon or

1576
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:35,040
Speaker 1: a matter of a couple of hours. We're talking acres

1577
01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:38,200
Speaker 1: can easily be done. And you have that big of

1578
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:42,280
Speaker 1: an um ability to manage and steer a plant community

1579
01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:46,240
Speaker 1: in a certain direction based on the timing, fire frequency,

1580
01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:50,800
Speaker 1: fire return intervals, and humidity, all these different factors. But

1581
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:57,519
Speaker 1: that's a big opportunity to manage and improve habitat for

1582
01:30:57,680 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 1: the wide ray of species we we care about or

1583
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:04,559
Speaker 1: concerned about, or want to just frankly improve. I've got

1584
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:07,080
Speaker 1: a text here mark that from a client. I haven't

1585
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:10,280
Speaker 1: even told matth this because he's been traveling. I've been traveling,

1586
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:12,719
Speaker 1: but I got a text from a guy and he says, Adam,

1587
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:15,280
Speaker 1: where do we post a testimonial? Laugh out loud. We

1588
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:18,120
Speaker 1: burned for the first time eleven days ago, and I

1589
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 1: busted a small covey of quail last night in that area.

1590
01:31:21,400 --> 01:31:24,040
Speaker 1: These are the first quail we've ever seen in these parts,

1591
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:27,880
Speaker 1: and it's just like they're not there. You think they're

1592
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:29,880
Speaker 1: not there, and then you do this work and all

1593
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:31,720
Speaker 1: of a sudden it's like, whoa where have you been

1594
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 1: all my life? And not to say that everyone's gonna

1595
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:38,679
Speaker 1: experience and that sort of deal. But like it does

1596
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 1: provide immediate types of attractions and um that that you

1597
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 1: can't replicate that with a chainsaw. You just can't. And

1598
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:50,960
Speaker 1: so each one has its place, but we have to

1599
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:54,719
Speaker 1: first realize it's place. Once we know that there's value

1600
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 1: there in this tool, don't just leave that knowledge in

1601
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 1: your head, apply it, put it on the landscape, and

1602
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:08,839
Speaker 1: do it responsibly. There's there's hours that could be devoted

1603
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 1: to fire and talking about all the intricacies of doing

1604
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:15,280
Speaker 1: a prescribed fire properly and all that. So I I

1605
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 1: part of me wants to try to dive into it.

1606
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:19,400
Speaker 1: Further part of me thinks of the lost cause in

1607
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:22,679
Speaker 1: this situation. So so instead I gonna stay high level.

1608
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 1: What I guess I want to know if what I'm missing,

1609
01:32:27,320 --> 01:32:29,639
Speaker 1: if I if I'm talking about I want I want

1610
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 1: more butterflies. I want more grouse or quail or pheasants.

1611
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:35,600
Speaker 1: I want more turkeys. I want the small mammals like

1612
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:38,840
Speaker 1: rabbits and squirrels and voles and moles and all that stuff.

1613
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:42,360
Speaker 1: I want my water on my property be clean and healthy.

1614
01:32:42,360 --> 01:32:45,720
Speaker 1: I want the soil to be vibrant and rich. I

1615
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:49,280
Speaker 1: want uh diverse plant in life, and I of course

1616
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:52,839
Speaker 1: want deer happy and healthy on this property too. I'm

1617
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:55,400
Speaker 1: gonna be thinking about managing timber. I'm gonna be managing

1618
01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:58,400
Speaker 1: old fields. I'm gonna reintroduce fire to the landscape. I'm

1619
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:02,200
Speaker 1: gonna use that chainsaw appropriately. I'm going to think about

1620
01:33:02,200 --> 01:33:06,439
Speaker 1: herbicide use when and where appropriate. Am I missing out

1621
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:09,600
Speaker 1: on any major foundation or any major tool in the

1622
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,720
Speaker 1: chest that would be that would be worth getting out

1623
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 1: there to to to put up physical um, to leave

1624
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:19,640
Speaker 1: my thumb print on the land in a positive way.

1625
01:33:21,160 --> 01:33:24,439
Speaker 1: I don't know if we put enough emphasis on this

1626
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:27,960
Speaker 1: one word in this podcast. We've mentioned it, but through

1627
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:31,719
Speaker 1: all of that you could sum it up. I think

1628
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:36,719
Speaker 1: with one main word is a native and using native

1629
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:43,559
Speaker 1: plants both forbes, grasses, sedges, rushes, shrubs, trees, native being

1630
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 1: also fire natural fire. And then if you really want

1631
01:33:48,280 --> 01:33:51,559
Speaker 1: to get into the weeds and say let's just try

1632
01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:53,760
Speaker 1: to replicate nature as best possible, figure out a way

1633
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:57,760
Speaker 1: to graze it to even add more disturbance, but we might.

1634
01:33:57,960 --> 01:33:59,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, Mark, I've listened a lot of your

1635
01:33:59,640 --> 01:34:01,719
Speaker 1: podcast US and I don't think grayzing has been touched

1636
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:04,519
Speaker 1: on much, so we might be the we might uncap

1637
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 1: in a can that we don't want to go down.

1638
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, native species and and just trying to

1639
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:15,080
Speaker 1: replicate nature and nature's natural cycles. And if you just

1640
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:19,280
Speaker 1: focused solely on that and say, okay, let's just add diversity,

1641
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:23,240
Speaker 1: let's promote natives, let's just do everything we can to

1642
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:26,559
Speaker 1: to make this a very diverse ecosystem. And so I

1643
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:30,679
Speaker 1: want diverse forests with young forests and and old growth forest.

1644
01:34:30,720 --> 01:34:33,560
Speaker 1: But I want healthy trees. I want to remove h

1645
01:34:34,080 --> 01:34:37,519
Speaker 1: unproductive trees. I want to promote edge feathering. I want

1646
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:40,800
Speaker 1: to promote native grasslands or old fields. I want to

1647
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:45,320
Speaker 1: add shrubs. I want to restore my riparian areas. By

1648
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:48,160
Speaker 1: the way, it might be introduced beavers, not to go

1649
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:52,400
Speaker 1: down that rabbit hole, but try to replicate beaver activity

1650
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:56,120
Speaker 1: and riparian areas to try to improve diversity there as well.

1651
01:34:56,479 --> 01:34:58,679
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden you're like, whoa, where

1652
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 1: did this deer come from? Look at this guy, And

1653
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:03,479
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're deer much healthier. And I

1654
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:06,360
Speaker 1: think that's just one of the big takeaways is the

1655
01:35:06,439 --> 01:35:10,920
Speaker 1: fact that you can completely forget about deer in your management,

1656
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:13,160
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they blow up because you've

1657
01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:17,000
Speaker 1: been focused on landscape health. Yeah, I would certainly say that.

1658
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:21,280
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people really go they try

1659
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:24,759
Speaker 1: to dive too far or too deep into land management

1660
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:29,080
Speaker 1: without first understanding the value or the importance of sunlight

1661
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:31,200
Speaker 1: in the whole game, as well as water. And we

1662
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:33,839
Speaker 1: haven't even talked about water and the way water flows

1663
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:36,640
Speaker 1: and the diversity that it creates, and flooding is a

1664
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:38,960
Speaker 1: whole another type of disturbance. And when we're really talking

1665
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:43,840
Speaker 1: about just overall land and health and whole another whole

1666
01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:47,120
Speaker 1: another podcast will tackle another time. But but when we

1667
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:51,240
Speaker 1: when we look at those two things, that really helps

1668
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:56,439
Speaker 1: determine what each acre on any given property should be

1669
01:35:56,720 --> 01:35:59,800
Speaker 1: and how it should be managed. Um. And if there's

1670
01:35:59,840 --> 01:36:04,679
Speaker 1: some out there thinking like gosh, where where do I start? Um,

1671
01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:10,040
Speaker 1: certainly consider it's just starting. And I want to say

1672
01:36:10,080 --> 01:36:13,479
Speaker 1: that like, don't don't don't really think it. Yeah, seriously,

1673
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 1: it's like, just just start, because once you see a

1674
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:22,120
Speaker 1: disturbance and see and observe what happens afterwards, it's just

1675
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:25,080
Speaker 1: fuel to the fire of I can do this, I

1676
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:27,680
Speaker 1: can create more of this, and maybe I'm going to

1677
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:31,760
Speaker 1: learn something in the process. But but just begin to

1678
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:36,280
Speaker 1: create these disturbances with fire, with a chainsaw, with herbicide

1679
01:36:36,280 --> 01:36:40,400
Speaker 1: if necessary, and and watch what happens, and then you'll

1680
01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:44,040
Speaker 1: slowly go down this this trail of just land management

1681
01:36:44,479 --> 01:36:47,439
Speaker 1: of man. I care more about the land and the

1682
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:50,519
Speaker 1: health of this ecosystem and in all the creatures that

1683
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:54,439
Speaker 1: are utilizing it. Or before I just thought about deer

1684
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:57,400
Speaker 1: and how I had access a tree stand um. But

1685
01:36:57,560 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 1: things just kind of reprioritize themselves when you know that

1686
01:37:02,280 --> 01:37:05,440
Speaker 1: you were the cause, the root cause of of improved habitat,

1687
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:08,760
Speaker 1: Like you create that disturbance that was you know, in

1688
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:11,360
Speaker 1: your power, and so you're just gonna get in. And frankly,

1689
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:14,799
Speaker 1: I'd be shocked if somebody took this and started doing

1690
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 1: the disturbances and adding the diversity and they didn't see

1691
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:23,160
Speaker 1: an improvement of deer size and dear health and dear sightings.

1692
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:26,320
Speaker 1: Just time and time again, our clients come to us saying,

1693
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:28,439
Speaker 1: you know, I once only cared about deer, and now

1694
01:37:28,439 --> 01:37:31,000
Speaker 1: I can care about everything, but yet I'm still seeing

1695
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:35,080
Speaker 1: bigger deer than I've ever seen. It's it's amazing how

1696
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:40,840
Speaker 1: that works. It's uh, it's really interesting. I'm I'm kind

1697
01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:46,800
Speaker 1: of personally going through this journey myself and um and

1698
01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:50,000
Speaker 1: one of the things that I think has inspired me

1699
01:37:50,280 --> 01:37:53,559
Speaker 1: to think a little differently now is is starting to

1700
01:37:53,600 --> 01:37:57,320
Speaker 1: look more long term and big picture and so thinking

1701
01:37:57,320 --> 01:37:59,840
Speaker 1: about you know, originally it was just like me, like,

1702
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:02,800
Speaker 1: how can I kill a deer this year? And then

1703
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:06,880
Speaker 1: gradually I started thinking more and more about, well, how

1704
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:11,360
Speaker 1: can I make sure that, you know, there's somewhere special

1705
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:15,200
Speaker 1: for my son to experience something down the line. And

1706
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:17,800
Speaker 1: then even outside of that, you start, you know, you

1707
01:38:17,840 --> 01:38:19,840
Speaker 1: start thinking, you start hearing about some of the things

1708
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:22,200
Speaker 1: I mentioned at the top. You start hearing about how

1709
01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:25,200
Speaker 1: you know every day six thousand acres are paved over,

1710
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:28,160
Speaker 1: put houses on or whatever whatever whatever, and you start

1711
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:30,720
Speaker 1: you go back. I went back this past weekend. I

1712
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:32,519
Speaker 1: was at my parents and I went back and walked

1713
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:35,080
Speaker 1: through the woods where I learned to bow hunt, and

1714
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:37,240
Speaker 1: there's houses back in the spots I used to hunt,

1715
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:41,120
Speaker 1: and there's you know, a TV trails and roads through

1716
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:43,720
Speaker 1: the spots that I used to sneak through and look

1717
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:48,000
Speaker 1: for turkeys. And my old blind is is crushed by um,

1718
01:38:48,040 --> 01:38:50,920
Speaker 1: you know, this this thing and that thing, and all,

1719
01:38:52,040 --> 01:38:55,320
Speaker 1: you know, all of these special places that we each

1720
01:38:55,360 --> 01:39:01,879
Speaker 1: have UM are slowly being eroded by m team different

1721
01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 1: forces out there and pressures out there, as you know,

1722
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:10,240
Speaker 1: as as just cities grow, people spread out, blah blah

1723
01:39:10,280 --> 01:39:12,320
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. These things are happening. And I start

1724
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:17,599
Speaker 1: thinking about how do I make my little difference of

1725
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:21,439
Speaker 1: keeping a few places still healthy and wild, and keeping

1726
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:24,639
Speaker 1: some critters out here, and and and just thinking about

1727
01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:28,240
Speaker 1: those types of things, you start to realize that if

1728
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:30,439
Speaker 1: you do have the privilege of having a little bit

1729
01:39:30,439 --> 01:39:35,120
Speaker 1: of land that you can influence, UM, I think you

1730
01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:37,760
Speaker 1: can start to look at it as a privilege, but

1731
01:39:37,800 --> 01:39:40,280
Speaker 1: then also as almost an obligation, like if if there's

1732
01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:42,040
Speaker 1: some way we can keep a little bit of this

1733
01:39:42,120 --> 01:39:45,320
Speaker 1: stuff from going down the you know, down the road

1734
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:48,720
Speaker 1: of becoming a parking lot someday, Like, man, I kind

1735
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:51,280
Speaker 1: of feel like I have to try to think about

1736
01:39:51,280 --> 01:39:54,320
Speaker 1: ways to do that, because I know how special these

1737
01:39:54,360 --> 01:39:56,600
Speaker 1: things and places are and I was lucky enough to

1738
01:39:56,600 --> 01:39:59,040
Speaker 1: get to enjoy them, and I don't know, I mean,

1739
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:00,720
Speaker 1: obviously I don't want to put than anybody else, but

1740
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:02,800
Speaker 1: that's the kind of stuff that I'm thinking about these days,

1741
01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:06,040
Speaker 1: and it's making me want to think about water quality

1742
01:40:06,120 --> 01:40:09,640
Speaker 1: and songbirds and and all that, and long behold, it

1743
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:11,559
Speaker 1: also leads to better deer hunting too, And it's it's

1744
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:15,680
Speaker 1: a really nice cycle that points to the obvious but

1745
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:18,920
Speaker 1: sometimes overlooked fact that all of these things are connected,

1746
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:22,840
Speaker 1: like you guys mentioned and um, and that's that's what's

1747
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:25,600
Speaker 1: got me excited about trying to trying to think in

1748
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:27,760
Speaker 1: this kind of way more often. And and I don't know,

1749
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:30,799
Speaker 1: I'm glad there's people like you guys that are helping

1750
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:35,160
Speaker 1: people do that. Yeah, we appreciate that. Now, that's we're

1751
01:40:35,240 --> 01:40:37,759
Speaker 1: right there with you where you think about the future

1752
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:41,120
Speaker 1: and you think about these game animals and non game animals.

1753
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:43,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like every time you turn around,

1754
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:47,880
Speaker 1: you're hearing the story of some some species is in

1755
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:50,439
Speaker 1: decline and now we have to do this or that

1756
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:53,720
Speaker 1: to try to help that species along. And it's just

1757
01:40:54,400 --> 01:40:57,320
Speaker 1: I'm sick of bad news, and I'm sick and tired

1758
01:40:57,439 --> 01:41:00,639
Speaker 1: hearing these bad stories. And it's like, let's just try

1759
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:04,760
Speaker 1: to get more productive and and get more initiative, and

1760
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:08,479
Speaker 1: instead of talking about coail declining, Let's go do something

1761
01:41:08,520 --> 01:41:10,320
Speaker 1: and help the quail. And it may only be that

1762
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:13,760
Speaker 1: one covey on your own place, but maybe knock on

1763
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:16,439
Speaker 1: your neighbor's door and say, hey, this is what I'm doing.

1764
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:18,200
Speaker 1: I know you think I'm a dear guy, but I'm

1765
01:41:18,200 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 1: really focused on rough grouse and I'm really focused on quail,

1766
01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:24,560
Speaker 1: and I'm really trying to ensure the future of that species.

1767
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:27,480
Speaker 1: And you might find the key that unlocks the conversation

1768
01:41:27,560 --> 01:41:31,040
Speaker 1: with the neighbor that says, you know what, sure, I'd

1769
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:32,680
Speaker 1: love to work with you, or you can do all

1770
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:34,919
Speaker 1: that stuff over here, I'd love to hear more. And

1771
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:37,439
Speaker 1: and before you know it, you can hopefully build off

1772
01:41:37,439 --> 01:41:41,160
Speaker 1: of that get more neighbors involved. Um, and then of

1773
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:43,479
Speaker 1: course you'll get a lot more neighbors involved when all

1774
01:41:43,479 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 1: of a sudden, nurse, bigger deer happening. That's funny. Help, Yeah, exactly.

1775
01:41:49,160 --> 01:41:53,360
Speaker 1: And Mark, you're really hitting on, um the second aspect

1776
01:41:53,600 --> 01:41:57,519
Speaker 1: of our company, which obviously are titles Land and Legacy.

1777
01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:01,200
Speaker 1: We're trying to do this from from a legacy standpoint.

1778
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:03,320
Speaker 1: It's it's not just the here and now. You know,

1779
01:42:03,400 --> 01:42:07,120
Speaker 1: from a season to a season, you know, deer hunting wise,

1780
01:42:07,320 --> 01:42:10,720
Speaker 1: But we're trying to make impacts and educate people to

1781
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:14,960
Speaker 1: the degree that when you pass on that property or

1782
01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:17,559
Speaker 1: it sells and goes to you know, the next person

1783
01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:21,439
Speaker 1: we're staying in the family, they've seen the work that

1784
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:24,599
Speaker 1: you've done and how you've changed that landscape for the better.

1785
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:29,080
Speaker 1: And and it's apparent because of of the diversity that's there,

1786
01:42:29,120 --> 01:42:32,200
Speaker 1: not only in plant communities, but in all the wildlife

1787
01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:36,360
Speaker 1: and the abundance that's that's obvious to people, um when

1788
01:42:36,360 --> 01:42:39,160
Speaker 1: they're walking the proper they see it. And and just

1789
01:42:39,200 --> 01:42:43,960
Speaker 1: the educational opportunities that for children, for family to be

1790
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:47,160
Speaker 1: able to enjoy throughout this entire process. I mean, it

1791
01:42:47,400 --> 01:42:52,960
Speaker 1: really is a transformative um process that that a land

1792
01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:56,520
Speaker 1: can go through if the right techniques are done. Um

1793
01:42:56,640 --> 01:42:59,559
Speaker 1: and and I I guess this is a good thing

1794
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:05,200
Speaker 1: but bad thing at the same time. But relatively property

1795
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:09,559
Speaker 1: and habitats pretty poor around the whole country. So you

1796
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:12,680
Speaker 1: do something positive and in the right way, you're going

1797
01:43:12,720 --> 01:43:15,240
Speaker 1: to see those benefits that we're talking about. And again

1798
01:43:15,400 --> 01:43:18,160
Speaker 1: use that as fuel to the fire too to create

1799
01:43:18,200 --> 01:43:21,400
Speaker 1: this legacy effect of man I own this property for

1800
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:24,839
Speaker 1: five or ten years, when I held it, I decided

1801
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:28,559
Speaker 1: to change things and and make it improved. Um, that

1802
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:31,040
Speaker 1: was my responsibility when I lived there, when I owned it,

1803
01:43:31,439 --> 01:43:34,800
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna continue that with the next property I own,

1804
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:38,920
Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be. Yeah. So for people

1805
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:42,719
Speaker 1: that that want to explore some of these things further,

1806
01:43:43,120 --> 01:43:45,360
Speaker 1: I will go ahead and just recommend they check out

1807
01:43:45,400 --> 01:43:47,400
Speaker 1: your podcast and your videos and everything you guys have

1808
01:43:47,439 --> 01:43:51,240
Speaker 1: got going on with landing legacy. But for other folks

1809
01:43:51,240 --> 01:43:54,960
Speaker 1: for for for next steps after that, um, whether it

1810
01:43:55,000 --> 01:43:58,400
Speaker 1: be for some inspiration or actual tactical advice, do you

1811
01:43:58,439 --> 01:44:01,760
Speaker 1: have anything you can recommend to folks for additional resources

1812
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:06,760
Speaker 1: to look at habitat improvement and land stewardship beyond just deer.

1813
01:44:07,800 --> 01:44:10,080
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the nonprofits set up for

1814
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:15,799
Speaker 1: certain species are are just phenomenal. Coil Forever, Pheasants Forever,

1815
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:20,080
Speaker 1: National Wild Turkey Federation, uh in d A fel Grouse

1816
01:44:20,280 --> 01:44:24,400
Speaker 1: Rough Grouse Society. Uh Yeah, I was gonna sell Eastern

1817
01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:29,639
Speaker 1: Grasslands initiatives. Southeastern Grasslands is great for historical information as

1818
01:44:29,680 --> 01:44:32,800
Speaker 1: well as the you know, just the overall decline and

1819
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:37,200
Speaker 1: education there. Um. The Audibon Society does a lot of

1820
01:44:37,200 --> 01:44:39,599
Speaker 1: great stuff with the birds. And then there's even state

1821
01:44:39,640 --> 01:44:42,679
Speaker 1: agencies that we love to follow that have are putting

1822
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:45,559
Speaker 1: out a lot of great research and studies. So you've

1823
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:48,280
Speaker 1: got Mississippi State Deer Lab which is doing great stuff,

1824
01:44:48,320 --> 01:44:52,839
Speaker 1: even uh Florida Deer Lab now with Mark's lashly down there. UM.

1825
01:44:53,120 --> 01:44:55,479
Speaker 1: And then State of Tennessee does a lot. Dr Craig

1826
01:44:55,520 --> 01:45:00,000
Speaker 1: Harper does really well, does amazing stuff. Penn State oklahom

1827
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:04,520
Speaker 1: Am the state does really good stuff for UM incorporating

1828
01:45:04,840 --> 01:45:09,879
Speaker 1: native type grazing systems on native grasslands UM No Research,

1829
01:45:10,120 --> 01:45:14,160
Speaker 1: Noble Research Institute, Yeah, you know, and and and those

1830
01:45:14,320 --> 01:45:17,439
Speaker 1: all those people are are are really doing research to

1831
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 1: understand certain native ecosystems or native uh species and that

1832
01:45:22,680 --> 01:45:28,880
Speaker 1: just packed with great information. Perfect all right, Well, uh,

1833
01:45:28,960 --> 01:45:31,439
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, guys. For people that do want to

1834
01:45:31,439 --> 01:45:33,400
Speaker 1: see what you've got going on, where can they find

1835
01:45:33,439 --> 01:45:37,920
Speaker 1: all your content online? We are at Landing Legacy and

1836
01:45:37,960 --> 01:45:44,000
Speaker 1: sign at Facebook and Instagram as well as YouTube. Perfect

1837
01:45:44,160 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 1: nice and simple. Well, I appreciate the time. This has

1838
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:49,799
Speaker 1: been fun. I'm I'm always learning something new from you guys,

1839
01:45:49,960 --> 01:45:52,960
Speaker 1: and uh coming away inspired to get out there and

1840
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:54,880
Speaker 1: and do some more work. So so thank you for

1841
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:58,160
Speaker 1: that and keep on keeping on. I appreciate it. Mark,

1842
01:45:58,160 --> 01:46:00,559
Speaker 1: thanks for having a song. Yeah, thanks for covering this topic.

1843
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:03,559
Speaker 1: Really appreciate it. Hey, let's let's jump down one of

1844
01:46:03,560 --> 01:46:05,960
Speaker 1: those other rabbit holes someday down the road and talk

1845
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:10,280
Speaker 1: about grazing or water or whatever other crazy cans of

1846
01:46:10,280 --> 01:46:15,639
Speaker 1: worms you want to open up. Can do? All right, friends,

1847
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:18,960
Speaker 1: That is it for today and for this week. Thanks

1848
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:22,040
Speaker 1: for being here. I appreciate you tuning in. Hopefully you've

1849
01:46:22,040 --> 01:46:23,880
Speaker 1: got a few new ideas you can put on the

1850
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:26,719
Speaker 1: ground in your neck of the woods, and stay tuned.

1851
01:46:26,800 --> 01:46:30,320
Speaker 1: Next week we're continuing with the series. Gonna be speaking

1852
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:34,840
Speaker 1: and exploring with someone new, chatting about other issues and

1853
01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:38,680
Speaker 1: ideas related to these wild places we care about, the

1854
01:46:38,680 --> 01:46:41,920
Speaker 1: wild animals we care about, and uh, interesting stuff on

1855
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:45,000
Speaker 1: those lines. So appreciate your time and until next time,

1856
01:46:45,479 --> 01:46:47,880
Speaker 1: stay wired to hunt.