WEBVTT - Organ Trail 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:13.040 When I was in second and third grade, I was 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:18.960 obsessed with mysteries Carmen San Diego, Encyclopedia Brown, Agatha Christie, 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:23.720 and especially Sherlock Holmes. On Thursday nights, I would stay 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.799 up late and snuggled under a blanket with my mom 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:30.840 watching mystery on PBS. But as much as I wanted 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.519 to solve all the neighborhood mysteries, I only ever cracked 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.919 two of them. First, the case of the nine year 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:44.040 old boxing champ. When a new kid moved to the 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.159 cul de Sac and claimed he was a world boxing 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:50.720 champ elementary school division, words spread fast across my neighborhood. 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.480 The kid was tough, He talked back to his mom, 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.320 he cursed, he spit, and he let it be known 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:00.800 he could beat up anyone who wanted to fight. My 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:02.840 neighbor dragged me along to see if it was true. 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.920 But a few questions about where he trained, what international 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.559 cities he traveled to, He had a hard time naming 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.560 any and also just pointing out the fact that he 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.960 had very soft hands quickly took the air out of 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:24.240 the myth. Second, the case of the Secret Admirer. Some 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.360 creep had signed all the Valentines to every girl in 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:31.279 our third grade class from your secret Admirer. My friends 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.160 Kristen and Sarah brought me the case. Our homeroom teacher, 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.800 Missus DeLong, had even received a secret Admirer card, which 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:42.280 was a total scandal. But after a little slew thing, 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.440 I realized that the night before, when I was out 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:49.080 playing basketball, my parents had called me in to sign Valentines, 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:51.919 and then after a while it got sick of calling 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.280 for me. My dad thought it would be funny to 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.600 sign all the cards anonymously, like I was some love 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:03.040 sick Casanova. It didn't take that long to solve the case, 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:07.360 but I didn't let on. I pretended it was unsolvable, 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.960 a mystery for the ages, and quickly shifted the conversation. 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.040 Sometimes solving a case is worse than not solving it. 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:30.239 Sometimes the answer feels wrong, even when it's right. All 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.240 that's to say, I think my work is often about 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.400 solving mysteries. I like patching the hole in the story. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.240 I love hearing a curious fact or reading a line 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.079 that doesn't sound right, and then poking around to get 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:46.480 the full story. So in October of last year, as 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.720 I was starting to gather leads for this show. I 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:50.880 hopped on the phone with an investor to hear about 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.040 what they'd been pitched in the longevity space, and as 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:57.240 they walked me through new ideas for drugs and procedures, 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.520 suddenly I heard a cloud of phrases that made me 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:01.000 lean in. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.799 We didn't invest because it makes us too uncomfortable. It's 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.680 pulled straight out of sci fi. They're brilliant, but their 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:09.919 reputations are controversial. 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.040 They want to remain anonymous, so I've had their tape 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:17.720 replaced with an actor, by which I mean my cousin. Anyway, 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.000 the investor tells me that in the. 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.720 Pitch there's a line item that stands out. It's for 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:25.440 buying property in South America. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.680 So then they asked why is real estate part of 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.600 this pitch, and the answer it's. 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.400 Because they're going to buy property to catch monkeys they 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:36.760 can test on what. 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.160 My mind is spinning trying to understand what they're talking about. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:42.960 And then I hear. 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:47.080 This The goal is to clone humans and use them 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.160 for human organ farms. 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.200 And that's the moment I knew the game is afoot. 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:02.960 From Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts, I'm Monga's heat there. This 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:41.799 is Skyline Drive How to Live Forever, Chapter one. Dear Leaders, 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.080 as the present. 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.279 Dish state, you. 0:04:55.200 --> 0:05:00.360 Americans do not eat what grows for free, like amazing, 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.960 very tasty fruit lying on the end. In Russia, people 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:09.680 gather things from the treats. I think Americans want to pay, definitely, 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:10.440 this is amazing. 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.960 I'm walking with Mikyle Rubin over to this little patch 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.479 of grass on the Stanford campus, and he's right. We 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.720 spot orange trees everywhere, and despite my love of citrus, 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.320 it hadn't occurred to me to pick up any fruit 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:29.240 off the ground. In spite of his scolding slash teasing me, 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:32.640 I feel lucky to be here with Mikyle. He made 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.640 his name at a publication called Prey Act, breaking stories 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.640 about Russia's political corruption and the oligarchy. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:38.960 There. 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.000 The guy is fearless. 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:48.280 We specialize on prohibited topics in Russia. So our goal 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:52.000 is to tell the stories that no one else would 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:56.680 ever tell, which is mostly everything about lighting me Puicha actually. 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.240 But Mikile is an exile here because us. In twenty 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:02.480 twenty one. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.520 We got, let's say, a signal that we need to 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:10.920 leave the country, which was very direct searchers by the police, 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:15.919 questions by the police. Then we got this title of 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:22.120 undesirable organization, which means prison, so very pretty direct signal 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:26.000 that we need to leave the country. Since my exile 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:30.000 started four years now, five years ago now, we changed 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.600 places very often, countries places. 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.599 So I really do feel like I'm in a mystery 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:40.760 or maybe a paranoid conspiracy thriller. I'm chasing this rumor 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:44.159 of human cloning, human organ farms. I'm meeting with an 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.960 exile journalist under an orange tree at Stanford, and right 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.520 now we're talking about a strange bit of tape that 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:57.680 emerged on the internet last year. That's Chinese President Hi 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.599 Jinping walking with Vladimir Putin during a military parade in Beijing. 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.240 An essays stroll through the help of their translators, the 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.760 two seventy two year olds are saying that seventy used 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.400 to be considered ancient, but these days being seventy is 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.920 like being a child. Then Putin suggests that maybe people 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:20.840 will age backwards by replacing their organs and so essentially 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:25.400 becoming immortal. She chuckles and ads it could be in 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:27.680 this century humans might be able to live to one 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:31.800 hundred and fifty years old. That exchange went viral, because 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:38.320 of course it did. It's terrifying, But to Mikail. 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.720 It wasn't surprised for me at all, as an investigative 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:46.080 journalist who covers lead in the Putin for most part 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:52.760 of his career, that he is definitely obsessed. I am 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.520 using this word intentionally. He's obsessed with his health. 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.720 All knows a lot about that. Among other things. He 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.400 was the one who broke the story about Putin adding 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.520 a bath bomb of antler blood extract to his top, 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:13.280 a Siberian folk treatment for virility, which only amplified Putin's 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:14.440 myth internationally. 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.800 Like back at like fifteen years ago, they were published 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:25.920 his photos half naked you riding a horse and swimming. 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.200 It was important part of his image. What we understand 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.559 now is that he wants to live for a very 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:36.800 very long time, and we found some proofs for that. 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.280 Mckail and his team also broke a story about contracts 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:46.199 between the Russian President's office and hotels near his various 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.600 homes and who was traveling with Putin along with when. 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:56.160 So we find that every time Putin travels some way 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:00.160 out of Moscow, there is a bunch of doctors traveling 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.280 with him and who have to leave very close to 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:08.240 his residences. Usually it is from four up to seven 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.120 doctors traveling with him, but there were two times when 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:17.280 Putin was visited by twelve doctors simultaneously. 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.520 The reporters determined that Putin was likely treated for thyroid 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:24.200 cancer in secret, and that he'd had hernia surgery too. 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.680 Of course, this isn't the kind of thing the Kremlin confirms. 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.560 If Putin disappeared for a few days, Mikael says, they'll 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.240 release pre recorded tapes of meetings to make it seem 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.000 like he's on the job as normal. How do you 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:39.520 figure out someone like Putin's health. 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:46.000 It is a prohibited topic in Russia, totally prohibited. This 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.800 is a part of Putin's image. He's always healthy. They 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.160 never tell that he's ill. Never. 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.680 In late May of twenty twenty six, the Wall Street 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.600 Journal released a story clarifying that Putin had earmarked twenty 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:04.080 six billion dollars for a longevity initiative. Pudin's daughter, a 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:08.640 pediatric endocrinologist who advises her father on genetics, and a 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.880 physicist who led the USSR's nuclear research project were put 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.120 In charge, and along with delivering new gene therapies for 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:20.760 slowing cellular aging. The scientists have two key tasks, both 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:24.560 dealing with organ transplants. The first to figure out how 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:30.080 to three D print organs in a lab, the second 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:35.000 using mini pigs as living incubators to grow and harvest organs. 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.959 If everything goes to plan, Russia will basically have generated 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.080 a body farm where fields of hearts and lungs and 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.480 kidneys will either be printed on demand or plucked from 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:51.200 a pig host to be implanted into a human. According 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.040 to the journal, the hope is that between these two initiatives, 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.559 people will be able to switch out body parts indefinitely. 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.680 Putin has invested billions in the idea and is targeting 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.960 a deadline that isn't as far off as you think, 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.000 just four years, which happens to be before the country's 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:14.000 next presidential election. Of course, all of this is being 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:17.160 pitched as a state priority, a way to make Russians healthier. 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.920 Right now, the life expectancy for the average Russian is 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.360 seventy three, putting Russia at a dismal one hundred and 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.800 nineteen out of two hundred and nine countries studied and 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.800 for a new recruit to its military from the moment 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:35.160 training starts to death in battle, their life expectancy averages 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:41.480 only up to three weeks. But when this organ replacement 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.360 therapy is ready, which Russian will be first in line. 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:46.920 I'm sure you can guess. 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:52.760 What I'm trying to say is that definitely this conversation 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:58.520 with presidentcy wasn't something newte and unfortunately for Russia that 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:03.480 his plan is also too for a very very long time. 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:29.360 Chapter two, Library Science. I can't stop thinking about this 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.400 dystopic vision for the future where if you have a 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.240 good mechanic and a warehouse full of parts, you can 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:39.040 keep a body running endlessly. I mean, I get the 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.880 idea you might need a pacemaker or to replace a 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:47.000 bum heart, but to just keep replacing parts forever. And 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:48.959 it makes me wonder about the urban myths I heard 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.520 in middle and high school of people going to a party, 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.920 getting drugged and then waking up in bathtubs of ice 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.360 without a kidney, which is why Lizzie and I ended 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.880 up in a local public library on a chilly January day, 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.760 sitting with a white hat hacker named Searchlight. 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.000 Going on to Darknet used to be a lot easier 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.680 because you could just go to a website and be like, look, 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:13.480 this is who's advertising organs. 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:18.000 Just so you know, that's not Searchlight's actual voice. Searchlight 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.520 works as an elite cybersecurity consultant and studies at one 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.200 of the country's most prestigious universities, and they only agreed 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.320 to talk to me if we kept their voice and 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.680 identity out of the show. It's near closing time, and 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.880 while it's not exactly busy, I'm nervous about who might 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:38.400 catch wind of what we're doing. The Searchlight tells us 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.720 that the library is a convenient way to access the 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.880 web without using your own IP address. They boot up 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.880 the computer, clear it of the existing searches and credentials. 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.679 If you ever want to take a photo of like this, 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.040 just don't take a photo of me. 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.640 They reassure us we won't actually be doing anything illegal, 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:05.240 which is a welcome reminder. A Searchlight begins typing, I'm 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.280 giddy to tour the dark web. I'm still thinking about 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.760 Silk Road, the so called black market Amazon where organ 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.600 trafficking was rumored to take place, but Searchlight says that 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.160 that part of the net is filled with government agents 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:23.760 running honeypot schemes on unsuspecting nubes and anyway, it's not 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.400 where the action is these days. So we're going regular 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:32.400 old surface web and searchlight starts by demonstrating how embarrassingly 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.120 easy it is to find longevity drugs here on the internet. 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:37.920 We all use how. 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:39.200 Long to take? And did it seem surprising? 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:39.800 How long a tike? 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:45.600 It took? Under a minute, which is wow, this is 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.920 so easy that why would you ever go through the 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:49.840 effort of going through the dark web for any of 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:51.000 these things? 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.960 By current estimates, the shadow markets are a six trillion 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:00.920 dollars a year economy. That includes money launcher and other 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.400 illicit activity too, but it also includes what we're looking 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.520 at right now, purchasing cancer drugs and anti virals for 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.040 HIV and anabolic androgenic steroids. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.840 I'm assuming there's a lot of business incentives for why 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.400 this is happening, and a lot of incentive for illicit 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.840 pharmacies in other countries to be targeting the US market. 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.720 I angle my body boxing out any nosy neighbors from 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.720 being able to see the screen. I can't believe how 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.200 brazen this marketplace is. And while we're not talking about 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:37.440 purchasing organs. These are serious pharmaceuticals, things with real side effects, 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.240 which are being recommended on dodgy sites as off label 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.680 longevity meds search sites. Starts pecking at the keys again 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.560 and we're transported to the world of longevity chatboards, the 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:53.560 so called community helping a new class of initiates navigate 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:58.000 their hunt for drugs. The boards point new longevionauts to 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.520 which sites are most reliable, which services to use to 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.200 drop ship the drugs, which banks are better for discrete 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:06.560 international transfers. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:11.200 Yeah, this is super detailed. This person decided to say 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.880 which regional facility their package arrived that and also when 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.000 they paid for it, and also when it arrived to them, 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.840 which is extremely detailed amount of information to put on 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.560 the public Internet about your crimes. Whether this is a 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.720 real name or not doesn't really matter. Essentially, if these 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.280 people are not having some dark web conversation or secret telegrams, 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:32.400 it's just on the Internet. 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.560 One post we look at about how to order rapamycin 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:41.280 has over fifty thousand views and hundreds of comments. Rapamycin 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.920 is an immunosuppressant, especially helpful in preventing rejection after say 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.720 a kidney transplant. While the drug has been much hyped 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.480 in longevity circles, it has plenty of documented side effects, 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:58.720 including mouth ulcers, wound healing issues, and disabling your immune system. 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.680 Anti aging potential for humans, if any is still unclear, 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.479 but at Searchlight points out, we don't really know anything 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.000 about who has set up this forum and what their 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:15.760 motives could be. 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.359 Who is this person? No idea. If this person's a 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:21.600 broker or supplier, then there's an incentive for them to 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.200 lie right and tell the people that it's safe when 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:31.320 it's not, and that's predatory. 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:33.760 A long time ago, a writer friend of mine told 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.800 me the story about getting in a minivan with a 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.679 formulae one driver on some blocked off roads in New Jersey, 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:45.160 a new supposed test track. The driver guns it, hurling 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.080 the minivan around corners, and as the writer sweats and 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:52.360 white knuckles the grab handles, the driver looks over and smirks, 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.600 showing just how much control over this soccer mom vehicle 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:02.439 he has. I'm reminded of that scene. A surflight whips 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.480 the browser across the web. Click, click, click, A few 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:09.160 keystrokes and something we're looking at discount injectables that stimulate 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.800 bone marrow to make more red blood cells. A few 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.119 more and we're racing to a site that claims to 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.720 be quote the best Indian pharmaceutical supplier in the Philippines 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:25.080 that also ships to the US. This is f one handling, 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:28.240 not some web tourists working the wheel, and we skid 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.320 past disclosures or lack of them on so many sites. 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.760 When we tap the brakes, Searflight points out the market 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.199 here is wider than just longebonouts. It's also filled with 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.560 people with serious health conditions who've been abandoned by a 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:49.840 broken healthcare system. People left scouring the internet for cheaper 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.800 versions of the drugs they can't afford, for. 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.960 People who actually need these medications and are going on 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.080 these websites because they just can't afford them, because they're 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.919 like five thousand dollars injection in the US. They're like, 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.120 they're like really expensive. You can't blame them for going 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:05.920 on these websites. 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.040 And Searchlight tells me these chemicals are not made for 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.800 people to take, They're for research only. 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:13.920 It's still unsafe and it should be shut down. 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:22.960 I'm thinking of my dad, how at the end of 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.680 his life when he knew things weren't going right. He'd 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.800 ordered these ira Vedic tinctures that he thought could maybe 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.919 heal him. It was this act of desperation, and I 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.520 had no idea what he'd bought, or from where, or 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:42.120 how he'd even research these supposed cures. But as much 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.240 as I didn't want it to be true, I knew 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:46.160 they weren't going to work. 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:50.800 I think what it really says about the longevity situation 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.320 is like this is being discussed openly. There is the 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.840 opportunity to know, hey, these drugs are dangerous, Like there's 0:19:57.920 --> 0:19:59.919 guidance that can be and hasn't been put up by 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:03.280 FDA saying these longevity drugs are off label and are 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:04.200 dangerous to be using. 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.960 My mind is reeling. For the same price as a 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.119 dinner out, I can buy research grade drugs that cure 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:32.399 major diseases on essentially an open market. It's barely harder 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.919 than ordering sneakers off of eBay. But what about the 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:38.879 people who aren't desperate? What about the prudence of the 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.040 world who talk of switching out a bad heart or kidney, 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.040 treating the human body like a Lego kit where you 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.320 can just snap in new parts, or the whispers. I 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:53.159 keep hearing of ultra elite longevity mansions, residences where New 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:56.800 Zealand oil airs and their friends. The actual phrase one 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:01.000 source used gream up longevity experiments they can fund without 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:04.359 worry of ethics. So I go back to my original 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.000 question and ask Searchlight, are people buying new livers and 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:09.400 spare kidneys online? 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:12.639 Well, there's a lot of conversation about replacing kidneys and 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:17.200 things like that in the longevity community, but actually acting 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.040 on that is extremely fringe. And not only do I 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.879 not know anyone who's done that, I've never heard of 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.000 anybody who's heard of anybody who's done that. 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:30.280 For a minute, I feel relief, like an anxious parent 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.680 looking out onto an ocean and not seeing any fins 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:39.800 taking that is proof that the water is safe. Searchlight 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.359 says that if we want to go hunting for organ sales, 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.879 they could reboot the system and find a burner phone 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.080 for us to use, but the various security measures would 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.120 take more time than we have. The library is about 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:56.320 to close. Besides, they explained to me, organ trafficking isn't 0:21:56.400 --> 0:22:01.159 just illegal, it also requires an incredible amount of coordination. 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:06.199 For extreme cases. Let's do an organ transplant illegally. It 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:10.320 requires a donor who's forced into donating organs, be trafficked 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:12.960 to a safe house and then have organs removed, and 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:15.200 then have a surgeon and a surgical feed are nearby 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.760 implant them into the recipient, and all of that has 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:20.040 to be coordinated by a broker. 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:25.120 A searchlight walks me through this. I'm realizing how hard 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:27.760 the recovery is, how easy it is for the body 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.359 to reject a foreign organ. The medicines you need to 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:36.159 override it. Even in the best circumstances. It is far 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:36.880 from smooth. 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:40.240 People who are primarily trying to get transplants on. Here 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.600 are people who actually need them but are just going 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:47.520 about it in extremely unethical ways that they just don't 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:49.400 care about the people who they're trying to get things 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:51.280 transplanted from. 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:53.960 And it feels like there's desperation on both sides, from 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.760 the person in dire need of a failing organ, but 0:22:57.000 --> 0:22:59.959 also from the person for whom their own internal organs 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:04.040 maybe the most valuable things they have in or on. 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.320 In twenty twenty three, when inflation had gotten so bad 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:11.840 that poverty was rampant, people were posting on telegram offering 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:16.080 their livers, their bone marrow. According to Business Insider, someone 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:20.520 even posted an offer to sell their testicles quote twenty 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:31.040 five years old. Oh positive, I know searchlight can illuminate 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:34.679 the darkest corridors of the Internet, places I'd never be 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:37.920 able to find. Were all those rumors I'd heard from 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:41.920 vcs about organ replacement just another kind of urban myth. 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:46.359 Had we hit a dead end? I can't believe it. 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:48.200 There has to be. 0:23:48.160 --> 0:24:12.400 A way Chapter three, Cracking the Faberge Egg. 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:17.720 In any detective story, there are moments when the trail 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:21.440 goes cold, when the pieces don't seem to fit, and 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:25.040 there are always options. You can play a violin and 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:29.000 hope for an inspired connection, or you can keep working 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:32.840 the neighborhood, tracing acquaintances, looking for one name to daisy 0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:36.320 chain into the next. And in a community this small, 0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:39.840 there's a sense that the young scientists with the boldest, 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:43.879 wildest ideas have all met each other, which is how 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:47.080 three days into my trip to San Francisco, I find 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:48.680 myself talking to Nicoa Poe. 0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:52.640 The people I valued the most actually weren't encouraging at all. 0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:56.400 They were just like, that's stupid entire thing, scrap. 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:01.880 That's what helped me, oh a lot of things. A vegan, 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:06.200 a former research assistant at Stanford an Army, National Guard Reserve, 0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:09.720 and a startup founder running his trials at the Buck Institute, 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:14.080 a prestigious research institute devoted to longevity, where he's worked 0:25:14.080 --> 0:25:18.480 on a way to replace his brain. But as we 0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:22.840 sit in his office in Marin overlooking sweeping hills thick 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:25.200 with fog, he tells me he doesn't want to replace 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:29.480 his organs by transplant putin style. Instead, he's taking his 0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:34.719 inspiration from an old philosophical thought experiment. The Ship of Theseus. 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:39.320 Theseus was this Greek explorer, right, and he goes on 0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:42.159 a journey and the mast of his ship break, so 0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:46.399 they replaced the mast. The board's break, so they replace 0:25:46.480 --> 0:25:48.520 the boards, and by the end of the journey they've 0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:51.399 replaced every single part of the ship with a new piece. 0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:56.520 But everybody still calls it Theseus's ship and the like. 0:25:56.720 --> 0:26:00.879 The philosophical question is if you completely play something piece 0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:02.879 by piece, is it still what it started to be? 0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:06.000 Nikoa has a theory about how you can replace your 0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:10.040 entire brain piece by piece and still retain your identity. 0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:12.440 And I want to know how he came to that belief. 0:26:16.359 --> 0:26:19.360 Nikoa grew up in Hawaii with the health conscious hippie mom. 0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:23.760 In college, he identifies two event horizons, and since he's 0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:27.320 quote not good at ai, he decides to lean into 0:26:27.359 --> 0:26:31.639 the other one, longevity. But even after studying biochemistry and 0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:34.600 molecular biology and moving to the West Coast to work 0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:37.480 in a Stanford lab, he wasn't satisfied. 0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:42.320 So one of my lab mates goes, well, you won't 0:26:42.320 --> 0:26:45.320