1
00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:08,440
Speaker 1: I'm very pleased this afternoon to be joined by Sharon McMahon,

2
00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:13,200
Speaker 1: a former law and government teacher who has built up

3
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:20,520
Speaker 1: a massive following teaching civics and providing basic information of

4
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 1: people who seem to crave it when they can find it.

5
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,880
Speaker 2: Welcome, Thank you, thanks for inviting me.

6
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,800
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you

7
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:39,240
Speaker 1: found your way to being a huge civics influencer, which

8
00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,600
Speaker 1: I suspect you did not suspect what was your path

9
00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,240
Speaker 1: five years ago? Probably not, No.

10
00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,120
Speaker 2: I mean, as you mentioned, I'm a longtime teacher, longtime

11
00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,000
Speaker 2: classroom teacher, so that's where a lot of my background

12
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:59,000
Speaker 2: knowledge in these topics comes from from, obviously both university learning,

13
00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:04,039
Speaker 2: but also from the classroom. And I decided in twenty

14
00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:10,320
Speaker 2: twenty that rather than get involved with a thousand different

15
00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:16,280
Speaker 2: conversations on social media in which people were viewing nonsense,

16
00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:22,120
Speaker 2: demonstrably false nonsense, rather than get involved in all of

17
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,839
Speaker 2: those conversations, that I was just going to start making

18
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:30,360
Speaker 2: some fact based, nonpartisan explainer videos about how things actually worked.

19
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,160
Speaker 2: And those videos became popular, they took off. I started

20
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,600
Speaker 2: getting lots of media requests where it turns out that

21
00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,800
Speaker 2: there's just not a lot of places that somebody can

22
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,440
Speaker 2: go to get some of their basic questions answered in

23
00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,320
Speaker 2: a way that doesn't feel like you're being judged or

24
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,480
Speaker 2: that you feel stupid for asking, and in a way

25
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,720
Speaker 2: that is accessible. So, you know, my very first video

26
00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,840
Speaker 2: was about how the electoral college works. I was somebody

27
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 2: on one of my friends Facebook posts was commenting about

28
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,560
Speaker 2: how somebody might graduate from the electoral college, and I

29
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,560
Speaker 2: was like, listen here, that is not at all how

30
00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 2: that works. The electoral college is not a place you

31
00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,320
Speaker 2: can go. It's not a university you could graduate from.

32
00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,600
Speaker 2: But rather than argue with a stranger online, I decided

33
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:27,040
Speaker 2: that I would just start making content that had accurate

34
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,360
Speaker 2: information in it. And so that's what I have been

35
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,880
Speaker 2: doing some version of that, including podcasting, working on a book,

36
00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,000
Speaker 2: all those kinds of things for multiple years.

37
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,560
Speaker 1: Now, do you still consider yourself a teacher?

38
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 2: I do, yes, Yes, absolutely, that is how I view

39
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,040
Speaker 2: my role in the ecosystem. I'm not interested in being

40
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 2: a politician. I'm not interested in being a journalist. Teaching

41
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:56,600
Speaker 2: is my skill and my passion, and that is absolutely

42
00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 2: how I will probably always view myself.

43
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 1: When you look around right now, at this moment in

44
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,560
Speaker 1: the country's history. What do you see?

45
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,200
Speaker 2: That's a great question. And I suppose what somebody sees

46
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,520
Speaker 2: depends on what they're looking for, right, Isn't that true

47
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,840
Speaker 2: of many things in life, that what we see depends

48
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:28,400
Speaker 2: on what we're looking for. So I see a number

49
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,760
Speaker 2: of things that I feel hopeful and encouraged by, and

50
00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,120
Speaker 2: I see also a number of things that I find

51
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:42,400
Speaker 2: concerning and that I feel like need to be addressed

52
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:48,120
Speaker 2: before they become much bigger issues. So some of the

53
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 2: things that I feel hopeful about are the number of

54
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,000
Speaker 2: people who are interested in government, the number of people

55
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 2: who are interested in making positive change, the number of

56
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 2: people who realize, like I did not want this in

57
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 2: high school and it is now that I know I'm

58
00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 2: going to do something about it. I'm hopeful about gen Z,

59
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,680
Speaker 2: who is one of the most politically aware and active

60
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,880
Speaker 2: generations in human history, and so I'm hopeful about a

61
00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,760
Speaker 2: number of things. I have concerns about the incredible level

62
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:27,760
Speaker 2: of harmful partisanship that is present in our current political discourse.

63
00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,760
Speaker 2: And what I mean by harmful is that it does

64
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,720
Speaker 2: not lead to productive conversations, and it does not lead

65
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,200
Speaker 2: to any kind of positive forward momentum on behalf of Americans.

66
00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,799
Speaker 2: It is unproductive and is a waste of tax payer

67
00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,719
Speaker 2: money when we're talking about Congress. So I don't think

68
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,920
Speaker 2: we're better off for hating our neighbors. I don't think

69
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 2: we're better off when Congress has a twenty one percent

70
00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,120
Speaker 2: approval rating and spends all of their time I'm arguing

71
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 2: for TV cameras. So those are a few of the

72
00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,479
Speaker 2: things that concern me. But I do remain hopeful that

73
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,240
Speaker 2: these things can change. We've had tough times before, and

74
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 2: we have changed for the better.

75
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 1: I think that one of the great delusions foisted on

76
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:25,000
Speaker 1: the American people through sometimes I call it the Trump

77
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:31,320
Speaker 1: industrial Complex, but through a lot of the through a

78
00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:38,680
Speaker 1: lot of the news media, is this idea that the conflict,

79
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:48,240
Speaker 1: the partisanship is normal and reflective of reality. Do you

80
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,080
Speaker 1: do you find it to be or do you find

81
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:57,200
Speaker 1: it to be illusory? I mean, for example, I appreciate

82
00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:03,120
Speaker 1: that some people is it completely on airplanes, and I've

83
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,240
Speaker 1: I've been hoping to see one of them right as

84
00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,200
Speaker 1: a frequent flyer for some time, right in the way

85
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 1: that people see grizzly bears right in Yellowstone, right I've

86
00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 1: wanted to see a Karen attack right in the wild live,

87
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,320
Speaker 1: but I have it right in fact, Right though I

88
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,400
Speaker 1: read about and my algorithm feeds me a lot of

89
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 1: stories about a lot of craziness and a lot of insanity,

90
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 1: my lived experience does not compute with that where I

91
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:44,640
Speaker 1: find most people to be civil, polite, normal, not at

92
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:50,400
Speaker 1: each other's not at each other's throats. And so how

93
00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:55,719
Speaker 1: do we reconcile these two things in the moment through

94
00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 1: a historical context or right? Do you think about it?

95
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:08,800
Speaker 1: We're just in this completely new era, bound together through

96
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:16,520
Speaker 1: mediums where every fringe point of view is instantly amplified,

97
00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:22,280
Speaker 1: circulated at a velocity that the truth can never hope

98
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 1: to keep up with. And therefore, right the liar with

99
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:31,960
Speaker 1: the biggest bullhorn is ultimately destined to prevail in any

100
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,840
Speaker 1: type of conversation in the public square concerning the public interest.

101
00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,040
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you kind of sort through this

102
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 1: era against what it is that you're trying to do?

103
00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:54,600
Speaker 1: Politics to me is downrange of culture, right, and the

104
00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,320
Speaker 1: big mistake is that so many cover it as if

105
00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,320
Speaker 1: it creates culture. So where are we in the culture

106
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:09,360
Speaker 1: right now historically against other periods in the country as

107
00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,600
Speaker 1: you as you see it, like anything that inspires you

108
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:14,840
Speaker 1: worries you more.

109
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,120
Speaker 2: That's a great question. It is a great question that

110
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,600
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are still sorting through

111
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 2: because our technology to be able to talk to each other,

112
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 2: our technology to be able to make information go viral

113
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:35,199
Speaker 2: is so new in relationship to human history, right, So

114
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 2: of course social media is very new in the broad

115
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,480
Speaker 2: scope of human history, and so what actually will happen

116
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:49,320
Speaker 2: is still a bit TBD. And anybody who claims to

117
00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,240
Speaker 2: have the answers of like, here's what's going to happen,

118
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 2: It's going to lead to the following twelve terrible things,

119
00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,360
Speaker 2: the demise of humanity, or it's going to be the

120
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,600
Speaker 2: great upload and we're all going to be better for it,

121
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,880
Speaker 2: I don't. I think all that is is prognostication. You

122
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,560
Speaker 2: can't We can't know these things yet. But what we

123
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,679
Speaker 2: do know is that we have an important role in

124
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 2: shaping that outcome. It's our job to help shape that outcome,

125
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:22,320
Speaker 2: rather than viewing ourselves as helpless participants who have no

126
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,840
Speaker 2: ability to change what might happen in the future. So,

127
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 2: in terms of where we are in comparison to historic context,

128
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,559
Speaker 2: of course, portions of where we are, like our technological

129
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,679
Speaker 2: development has never there's nothing to compare it to, you know,

130
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,800
Speaker 2: like you can compare it to the printing press or

131
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,640
Speaker 2: you know, there's things you can try to extrapolate, but

132
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,960
Speaker 2: it's none of it is a one to one that set.

133
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:59,240
Speaker 2: Is this the worst it has ever been in human history?

134
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely not, absolutely not. It's not the worst it's been

135
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 2: in the United States. It's not the worst that has

136
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,840
Speaker 2: been around the world. We have been far worse off

137
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,840
Speaker 2: than we are today. There was a time period in

138
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:20,440
Speaker 2: the mid nineteenth century in which violence inside the United

139
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:27,400
Speaker 2: States Congress was so prevalent that people were beaten within

140
00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,480
Speaker 2: an inch of their lives, having and had to leave

141
00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,720
Speaker 2: Congress for multiple years because their injuries were so severe.

142
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 2: Inside the United States Capital, one senator against a representative.

143
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,680
Speaker 2: That person who engaged in beating the other member of

144
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:48,600
Speaker 2: Congress was investigated, and then Congress decided not to censure

145
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,959
Speaker 2: the person who was who beat the other person within

146
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,480
Speaker 2: an inch of their life, and then, rather than deal

147
00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:00,200
Speaker 2: with any consequences, that person decided to quit Congress, but

148
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,240
Speaker 2: then ran for reelection and got reelected. Okay, so there

149
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,680
Speaker 2: have been times. That's just one example of times where people,

150
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,960
Speaker 2: i mean guns have been fired inside the United States Capital.

151
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:17,640
Speaker 2: That is just one example of how times have changed

152
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 2: for the better in many ways. And by the way,

153
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 2: what they were fighting over was the right to enslave people.

154
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,199
Speaker 2: And so has anybody been beaten within an inch of

155
00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,319
Speaker 2: their life inside the US capital over in a fight

156
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,959
Speaker 2: over whether or not it is acceptable to own human

157
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,840
Speaker 2: beings this week? No, So by those types of measures,

158
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,160
Speaker 2: we are better off than we have been in the past. Obviously,

159
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:48,880
Speaker 2: the Civil War is a case study for what happens

160
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:55,520
Speaker 2: when we have extreme factionalism and tribalism. Hundreds of thousands

161
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 2: of people, somewhere between six and seven hundred thousand people

162
00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:06,320
Speaker 2: died because of that excess factionalism and tribalism. So it

163
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,959
Speaker 2: you know, that's one of the things that I see

164
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:17,199
Speaker 2: is a speeding train on this excessive factionalism and tribalism. Now,

165
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,400
Speaker 2: I'm not saying civil war is imminent. I'm not saying

166
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,840
Speaker 2: doom is at hand. What I am saying is that

167
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,840
Speaker 2: we have had moments in our history before in which

168
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:36,640
Speaker 2: our baser instincts, our default tribal settings led us to

169
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:42,160
Speaker 2: the brink of disaster, and it just so happened that

170
00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 2: the Union held, and it just so happened that the

171
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,400
Speaker 2: North was better equipped than the South. But it could

172
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,560
Speaker 2: have turned out differently, and so consequently, those are chances

173
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,040
Speaker 2: that I'm not interested in taking. Those are risks that

174
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,640
Speaker 2: I'm not interested in participating in. So that's what I say.

175
00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,199
Speaker 2: That's what I mean when I say we have an

176
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 2: important role to play in the outcome. If we're just

177
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,760
Speaker 2: waiting for government officials to figure it out, well, I've

178
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 2: just laid out the case of why government Congress is

179
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,680
Speaker 2: quite ineffective. Right we're waiting for them to figure it out.

180
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,360
Speaker 2: That is, that's that's bad news. Some members of Congress

181
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,240
Speaker 2: who are in charge of doing things like regulating technology

182
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,960
Speaker 2: have hearings in which they call up tech CEOs and

183
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,880
Speaker 2: then they ask them questions like is TikTok wi fi?

184
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 2: They don't understand the difference between TikTok and wi fi.

185
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,760
Speaker 2: They thought TikTok was wi fi. And that's kind of

186
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,800
Speaker 2: a laughable example. I mean, it's a true example. That's

187
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,440
Speaker 2: kind of an example of like this is when you

188
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,760
Speaker 2: to your point, these are not the people who are

189
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:02,080
Speaker 2: shaping culture, right, Like, these are the people who actually

190
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,160
Speaker 2: are getting paid by taxpayers, who should avail themselves of

191
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,960
Speaker 2: the education that's readily available to distinguish between important things

192
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,040
Speaker 2: like should we be regulating social media and what actually

193
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,000
Speaker 2: is wi FI. I guarantee they have a twenty two

194
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,240
Speaker 2: year old staffer working in their office who could help

195
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 2: them sort these things out, and the fact that they

196
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,160
Speaker 2: don't says a lot about them. These are the people

197
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,800
Speaker 2: in charge of regulating important things in the United States.

198
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 2: So I agree with you that politics is downwind of culture,

199
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:36,720
Speaker 2: but I do think that our political discourse can and

200
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:43,840
Speaker 2: does impact culture in some ways, and in many ways

201
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:50,360
Speaker 2: it is has not been a positive impact. Recently, we

202
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:50,960
Speaker 2: have a.

203
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,080
Speaker 1: Person and I just wonder how you see this. We

204
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,240
Speaker 1: have a person who's being speculated about. It's a curious

205
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,400
Speaker 1: vice presidential candidate, at least the fauna number three in

206
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 1: the House leadership who called the criminals convicted by juries

207
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 1: of their felonies on January sixth, hostages. And we have

208
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 1: a candidate, also a VP front runner, Governor Haley, in

209
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,800
Speaker 1: an even race in New Hampshire according to some polls,

210
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 1: and she's asked a direct question about, Hey, what caused

211
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:39,920
Speaker 1: the Civil War, and she didn't give the answer. And

212
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,560
Speaker 1: the answer, of course, is slavery. You can read Alexander

213
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 1: Stephens cornerstone speech the vice President of the Confederacy, very

214
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:54,720
Speaker 1: clear what the war was about. Does it matter, i

215
00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:01,560
Speaker 1: went a presidential candidate in twenty twenty four US as

216
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,880
Speaker 1: it's about whatever you want it to be about. Does

217
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 1: the remembrance of that event matter? Is it important?

218
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 2: It is important?

219
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:17,320
Speaker 1: It absolutely works.

220
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean to be clear, as you mentioned,

221
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 2: the Civil War was about slavery. It was about some

222
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 2: states wanting to enslave other humans. And you know, another

223
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 2: another proof text of that is every single articles of

224
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 2: secession that was filed by that were filed by the

225
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 2: varying states, starting with you know, South Carolina and moving

226
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,760
Speaker 2: through the states that wanted to secede, they all said,

227
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,520
Speaker 2: one of the reasons we want to secede is because

228
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 2: we want the right to practice our own lifestyle and

229
00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,080
Speaker 2: to maintain our property and have our slaves. So they

230
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,320
Speaker 2: didn't even at the time make any you know, there

231
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,359
Speaker 2: were no illusions of like, oh, states rights. No, that

232
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 2: was all an intentional attempt to recast history after the

233
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,880
Speaker 2: fact the lost cause. They decided that they were going

234
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,600
Speaker 2: to try to make it seem as though it was

235
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 2: the War of Northern Aggression and that it was states' rights.

236
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,639
Speaker 2: So you're absolutely right that it was about slavery. And

237
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 2: there's a zillion other examples that we could both give

238
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,680
Speaker 2: about how we know that is true. But the question

239
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 2: of whether full, complete, accurate history is important in the

240
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 2: United States. Potential presidential candidate, neighborhood librarian, kindergarten teacher, whether

241
00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 2: any of these people are educating our young people or

242
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 2: educating the population at large about American history and whether

243
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 2: they are getting it right has always been important and

244
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,919
Speaker 2: will always be important. And one of the reasons for

245
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:21,880
Speaker 2: that is because people take action based on information they

246
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:27,800
Speaker 2: get from a respected leader's that is human nature. We

247
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 2: take actions based on information we get from somebody we respect.

248
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 2: And if somebody respects a teacher, or they respect a

249
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,080
Speaker 2: presidential candidate, or they respect some you know, college professor,

250
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 2: somebody who tells them these things, a neighbor, and they

251
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,920
Speaker 2: take action based on those things. If those things end

252
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 2: up being a lie, that can have tremendous consequences. And

253
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 2: January sixth is a great example of what happens when

254
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 2: people take action based on a lie, the lie being

255
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 2: you know, there's a number of lies that we're told,

256
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 2: but one of the lies being that Mike Pence had

257
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,879
Speaker 2: some kind of constitutional ability to not certify the election,

258
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 2: that something something was gonna as a miracle was going

259
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 2: to occur in the Capitol. If we just you know,

260
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 2: storm in, if we just kidnapped Nancy Pelosi, if we

261
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 2: just get a gallows out here and hang Mike Pence,

262
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 2: if we just invade with our weapons, if we just

263
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,919
Speaker 2: assault a bunch of police officers, then something can happen.

264
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,640
Speaker 2: But all of that, as we know, is a lie.

265
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 2: None of those things, you know, the ability to change

266
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 2: the Constitution on a whim, That's not how that works.

267
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:55,919
Speaker 2: So people took actions based on a lie, and that

268
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 2: has very real world consequences. Now, I'm not saying not

269
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 2: equivocating Nikki Haley's comment about the Civil War to January sixth,

270
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they are the same. I'm just saying

271
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 2: what we say in the public square has real world consequences.

272
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 1: Do you think there's a connection between those two things,

273
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 1: because I do see a through line in the cause

274
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 1: that if you back up the January sixth crowd. Are

275
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: they not the same people that would have been in

276
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: an anti bussing protest in the nineteen seventies? Are they

277
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 1: not the same people that would have been in the

278
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 1: schoolhouse door in the nineteen sixties and in the nineteen fifties,

279
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 1: and jeering Jackie Robinson, and on and on and on

280
00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 1: back it goes. And because of the remarkable aspects I

281
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,919
Speaker 1: think of American history, and I wanted to ask you

282
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 1: what it is that we should actually teach right in school,

283
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 1: right And I wanted to talk to you about I

284
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 1: want to make an imaginary curriculum with you right of

285
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 1: studies while we're while we're doing this, but you, you,

286
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: you look at this, you look at this moment of

287
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: crisis in the in the country, and you say, well,

288
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: can it possibly be that the January sixth criminals will

289
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 1: be remembered or viewed as hostages? And of course the

290
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 1: answer to that is is yes. You talked about the

291
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 1: lost cause. When when you listens S Grant died nineteen

292
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: and eighteen eighty five. It's the most famous American in

293
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 1: the world. There is no person of equal stature alive

294
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: in the kind he is Lincoln's political and moral air,

295
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: And forty years later, Brandon is remembered as a butcher,

296
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: as corrupt and drunk, while Robert E. Lee is venerated

297
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: as honorable, genius and patriotic. The myth of the Lost Cause,

298
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: and so that mythology and that constant duality of what

299
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: it means to be American nineteen thirty eight, the bund

300
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 1: You have a giant George Washington banner forty feet high

301
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: in Madison Square garden festooned with swastikas, And so what

302
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: is real, what's not? What's true? How do we get

303
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: the Treon track? And what is it that they need

304
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: to learn and know about their civics and their history?

305
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: To me, I think the Mayflower Compact is an epic

306
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: event in the in the affairs of human history, and

307
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: it leads in a straight line, including the introduction of

308
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: slavery on to the continent, which is a profound evil,

309
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: to the American Revolution, which is really the before and

310
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: after moment in human history in my view. And I

311
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: don't when should we teach that to a kid? Right?

312
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: When do we When do we take them into school? Right?

313
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: And it's it's an American classroom right here, We're to

314
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: study the American Revolution, Right, we're gonna when do we

315
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: do that?

316
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: That's a great question. Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.

317
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: And here's where I think our current history curriculum could

318
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: use updating, is we portray most of the people that

319
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 2: we study, especially in the younger grades. We fill our

320
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,719
Speaker 2: books with heroes. We fill our books with George Washington

321
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: crossing the Delaware and Abraham Lincoln, you know, Emancipatient Proclamation.

322
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 2: And of course, of course we should study people who

323
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: have done great things. Of course we should. That's an

324
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 2: important that's an instructive tool. But what we have failed

325
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 2: to do is resent any of these heroes from history,

326
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: or any of these events from history in their totality.

327
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: So when we talk about the Mayflower, it is almost

328
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: always related to Thanksgiving, right, which we all know is

329
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: if we don't think about history like with you know,

330
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: it's portrayed uh to school children as like the Mayflower

331
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: and the Native Americans and the cornucopia and the turkey

332
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 2: and the pumpkins, and they celebrated, they were so thankful

333
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: for each other, and they celebrated the first Thanksgiving. That

334
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 2: is the framing that young children are often given when

335
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 2: it comes to understanding early colonists in the United States.

336
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 1: It's great, so it's it's such a good point, right,

337
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: So it's just it's just, I mean, it's nonsensical and coopia.

338
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: No, no, cornucopia, no, no. The Native Americans were so

339
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: thankful for Miles Standish.

340
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: No.

341
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 2: Some of these things, as you mentioned, have become American myths.

342
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 2: And what we failed to do is analyze characters from

343
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 2: history for their important contributions while also subjecting them to

344
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 2: a fair criticism of their negative impacts. Thomas Jefferson is

345
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 2: a fantastic example of this. You can't deny that he

346
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: made important contributions to the United States. You can't deny

347
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: that he didn't start the University of Virginia, fine institution.

348
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 2: You can't deny about his involvement in the Declaration of Independence,

349
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: like you cannot deny that his you know, the Louisiana Purchase,

350
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 2: like a million things. We can talk about Thomas Jefferson's

351
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 2: contributions to the United States, But what happens when students

352
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 2: grow up and find out that Thomas Jefferson was an enslaver.

353
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: Thomas Jefferson impregnated Sally Hemmings multiple times, Sally Hemmings was

354
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 2: his dead wife's half sister. She came into their household

355
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: as a gift from his wife's father, and she was

356
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 2: fathered by his wife's father like his father in law

357
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: fathered her. You know, she was fifteen years old or

358
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 2: thereabouts when she is forced to go to France with him,

359
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 2: a place where she is free, but then he brings

360
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: her home. The only slaves that he freed are people

361
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: that he was related to. So I'm not saying that

362
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 2: we need to start teaching five year olds about rape. Okay,

363
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: I'm not advocating for that.

364
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going to.

365
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: I don't nobody think this needs to be developmentally appropriate,

366
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: of course, but young children are quite capable of understanding

367
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: that sometimes people would do good things and sometimes people

368
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: do bad things. That's not that's actually just like a

369
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 2: really really basic concept that young children all understand. It's

370
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: in every single TV show and movie that they watch,

371
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 2: It's in all their books. Sometimes people do good things

372
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: and sometimes people do bad things, and sometimes the same

373
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 2: person does both. So I think that it's if we

374
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 2: frame it in that type of context of like, here

375
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 2: are some of the bad things that this person did.

376
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,959
Speaker 2: Then when they get to be sixteen years old and

377
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: find this out for the first time, They're not going

378
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: to feel lied to. And I can tell you firsthand

379
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 2: that that is often how people feel. Adults today, I

380
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 2: hear this almost every day, feel like they have been

381
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 2: lied to, Like the truth has been intentionally concealed from them.

382
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: And that's not a healthy educational system, that's not a

383
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: healthy civics.

384
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: Why is this concept so? Why is this concept so

385
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: far to say that the man who wrote the most

386
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: important words in all of human history regarding human rights

387
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: was a deeply flawed, dare I say, hypocritical individual who

388
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: did not practice what he preached, but was in a

389
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: small group of geniuses that set in motion the greatest

390
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: drama in human history, government of the people, by the people,

391
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: for the people, where constantly we have been on the

392
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: knife sedge.

393
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: Why is it so hard for us to admit that

394
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: he was a fallible human who did bad things?

395
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: Why can't we say? Why can't we present it like that?

396
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: I think we can and should. That's what I advocate

397
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: for that we can absolutely be like, here is a

398
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 2: list of how we know Thomas Jefferson was a genius,

399
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: And here are some of the incredible contributions that he made,

400
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: and he is also these other things. He admits to

401
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: being a hypocrite. That's not even a judgment from our

402
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: time period. He fully admits that he is unable to

403
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: reach the standards of all men are created equal, that

404
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: he is unable to do that, and he in many

405
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 2: ways he talks about how he feels bad about it,

406
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: and he in his letters to people like John Adams,

407
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: laments that he is a weak man in these types

408
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: of regards. That's not to excuse him, that's not to

409
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: say like he was sorry about it. So it's fine

410
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: because again the proof's in the pudding. He doesn't actually go,

411
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: he doesn't feel sorry and then take action to change

412
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: his hypocrisy. So I'm not giving him a pass. But

413
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: he absolutely knows this about himself. Again, he's a genius,

414
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: so he's aware of his own foibles. I don't think

415
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: it's hard to say that, and I hear from thousands

416
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: of people every day that it doesn't make me feel

417
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: like the declaration of Independence isn't a consequential event in

418
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: human history or a consequential document in human history. I

419
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 2: appreciate knowing the truth, So I think one of the

420
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: reasons it's really hard for us to admit these things

421
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: about our heroes has to do with mythologizing America's founders.

422
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: There is a belief in certain circles in the United

423
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: States that the founders and the founding of America was

424
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 2: divinely inspired, and that if you criticize divine inspiration, it

425
00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 2: is not quite but almost akin to the viewpoint that

426
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 2: you know, the Apostles wrote wrote the Gospels in the

427
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 2: New Testament. That's, you know, somewhat some people believe, and

428
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: that those were divinely inspired.

429
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: And would have surprised the founders.

430
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: It absolutely would happen. Yes, they did not divine no. No.

431
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: In fact, if you if you read some of the

432
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: later year correspondents between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson when

433
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: they sort of like reunited as friends and they're both

434
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: like old men in their eighties. Even then they were

435
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: wondering to each other like, I don't know, man, I

436
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: don't know if I did enough. I don't know if

437
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: I did it right. Like we would we would today

438
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 2: use the phrase imposter syndrome. That's how we would view

439
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 2: it with our today lens of like I'm just pretending

440
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: to be good at writing a founding document. I'm just

441
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: pretending to be good at founding a country. I don't

442
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: know if I actually am good at it. You know

443
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about with imposter syndrome. This is something

444
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: that a lot of people in business feel like, I

445
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: don't know if I know how to be a CEO.

446
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: I don't know if I know how to do that job.

447
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna fake it till let me make it.

448
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: That is precisely how they felt in the moment. And

449
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: now that's not to say they didn't have you know,

450
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: they were they didn't have any personal faith backgrounds. They did,

451
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: but they did not view themselves as you know, divine mercenaries.

452
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 2: They were not divine messengers. They absolutely viewed themselves as

453
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: fully human and full of They were full of angst

454
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: about their own lives and whether they had done enough

455
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: and been good enough, been virtuous enough, and often they

456
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: arrived at the conclusion that in fact they had not.

457
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm talking about with Thomas Jefferson, where

458
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: he acknowledges that he is unable to reach the level

459
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: of virtue that he aspired to.

460
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: And they appreciated in a secular sense, the importance of

461
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: virtue in a republic.

462
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh absolutely, they actively studied, They actively studied the

463
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 2: moral philosophers who preached this idea that happiness can only

464
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 2: be found through virtue and not religious virtue, not going

465
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: to church virtue. And again I'm not saying that none

466
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: of these people had religious faith, but that's not what

467
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 2: I mean by virtue. We're talking more about these philosophical

468
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: ideas of tranquility, temperance, self control, these activities that were

469
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 2: seen as virtue justice, that is how you would find

470
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 2: true happiness. And these moral philosophers, you know, many of

471
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 2: them ancient Greeks, were widely studied by Enlightenment era thinkers

472
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: and then later by you know, American democratic thinkers, so

473
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 2: virtue absolutely was something they pursued. Benjamin Franklin is famous

474
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: for like having making a list of what the virtues

475
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: he thought were important, and then each day trying to

476
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 2: make a check mark next to the virtue that he

477
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 2: felt that he accomplished that day, and then seeing regularly

478
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 2: how he felt short, how he fell short of his ideal.

479
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: I want to I'm oppose a problem on the back end,

480
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: but here's what I think is here it be my curriculum. Okay,

481
00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: I think the valedictory speech of the twentieth century is

482
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: the is the address that L vs L gave in

483
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: the White House about indifference. I think that is a

484
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 1: speech that this is what the twentieth century was about.

485
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: And it matters right because every century of human history

486
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: has been deadlier than the preceding one. Though we've had

487
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: a big pause in the back half of the twentieth

488
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: century against the preceding and that that sums it up.

489
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: But the greatest impromptu extemporaneous speech in American political history

490
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: is Bobby Kennedy in Indianapolis from the back of a

491
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: truck when doctor King is murdered. I think one of

492
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: the most prophetic speeches, most optimistic, is that I've been

493
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 1: to a mountaintop on the eve of doctor King's assassination.

494
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: His I have a dream speech, his his letter from

495
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: a Birmingham jail. There is the Gettysburg Address. There is

496
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: the second inaugural, Lincoln's Might makes Right at Cooper Union.

497
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 1: There is FDR's first inaugural, his nineteen thirty six convention speech,

498
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: and several from the Second World War and to me,

499
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: along with a Frederick Douglas address, a Daniel Webster address

500
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: from eighteen twenty really or the moral canon right of Americanism. Right,

501
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: you can, you can, you can broadly, there are there's

502
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: a there's an address by Chief Joseph to Congress that

503
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: that's important. But but there's an American there's an American

504
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: cannon that stretches out over our history that puts into

505
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: competition the idea that we can be more perfect at

506
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: a human level, at a national level, that the Union

507
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: can become more perfect, that it can become that it

508
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: can become more just. And some of the most optimistic

509
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: words are delivered in moments of great crisis. And you

510
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: talked about the Greeks. There's a whole series of John

511
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: Kennedy's speeches. Speech he gives last major address of his

512
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: presidency at Amherst College, celebrating the role of the artist

513
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: in American life, tribute to Robert Frost, his speech at

514
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: Rice University talking about space exploration and scientific progress. That's

515
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: a lot of relevance to artificial intelligence. His speech about character,

516
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:03,720
Speaker 1: the Arabella speech, which as President elect, but we're talking

517
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,919
Speaker 1: about a time from nineteen sixty nineteen sixty three where

518
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: he's talking about Greek philosophers. He's talking about the lessons

519
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 1: of the Romans. You look at Jimmy Carter, a speech

520
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: that was maligned in its day, the Malaise Speech, but

521
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: is actually very very deep reflection of American character you

522
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: go through the nineteen nineties. Even the thing that I

523
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: find most worrying is almost this contagion of illiteracy and

524
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: incoherence that when Donald Trump speaks, or what passes for

525
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: the dialogue today, completely exempting Trump, it could be Nancy Mace,

526
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: George Santo, who had no idea who Harvey Milk was,

527
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: as as someone who claims to be a gay American

528
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: complete ignorance, absolute illiteracy, and verbal incontinence on a good day,

529
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: to total incoherence on a bed. What's the what's the

530
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: remedy to fix any of this? If no one reads right,

531
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: you can't even get people to watch it, watch a

532
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: movie right, Like you'd be like, okay, you're not going

533
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: to read about the fifty fourth Massachusetts regiment, like watch Glory,

534
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: Like two hours is too long to watch a movie.

535
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: What do you do about that?

536
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a million dollar question is how do we

537
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: how do we make ourselves better? When there's so much,

538
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 2: so many people who are reticent to do so and

539
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: think that they are fine as they are, How do

540
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 2: you and get them to embody these ideas of the

541
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: pursuit of virtue, even though no humans will ever be perfect,

542
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 2: that it's a it's a worthwhile pursuit, which is what

543
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 2: you know, thousands of years of human history tells us

544
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 2: there's a worthwhile pursuit. You know, I would add to

545
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: your list of American cannon George Washington's farewell address, where he,

546
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 2: you know, specifically talks about how, you know, excess fashionalism.

547
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: Excess factionalism will at some point become a potent engine

548
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled

549
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 2: to subvert the power of the people. George Washington predicted

550
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: what would happen when he retired if we did not

551
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 2: take steps to avert that crisis, that cunning and unprincipled

552
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 2: men would usurp for themselves the reigns of power. And

553
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 2: I think that we can all think of a list

554
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 2: a few examples from history of how cunning and unprincipled

555
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 2: men have you surped for themselves the rains of power.

556
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 2: It's happened before, and the only way to prevent it

557
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: is to take action ourselves. Right, there does tend to

558
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 2: be this idea that somebody is coming to save us,

559
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: talking about the Eli Visell speech where he talks about indifference,

560
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 2: and you know, like he in that speech he defines

561
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 2: what is indifference and why is it the most insidious

562
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: of problems? And that indifference leads us to believe that

563
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 2: there is somebody, a knight enshining armor, who is waiting

564
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 2: to ride in and save us from you know, whatever

565
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 2: terrible fate is about to befall us, and that that's

566
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 2: just obviously not the truth. We are the people that

567
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: we've been waiting for, right that it's actually up to

568
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 2: us to change these things. So what do we do

569
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 2: when we encounter our situation, a moment like we are

570
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 2: in right now, when we lament that Americans are no

571
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: longer reading important works, They're no longer paying attention to

572
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,959
Speaker 2: the great speeches of history, they are no longer paying

573
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 2: attention to moral philosophers or political philosophers who forward important ideas,

574
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 2: and instead we spend all of our time watching videos

575
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: about cats on our smartphones or playing playing a candy

576
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 2: crush what is one to do in that scenario. A

577
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: few things to think about the first one is that

578
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: it has only ever been a tiny subset of humans

579
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 2: who have read the Moral Philosophers. It has only ever

580
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 2: been a tiny group of people who has been educated

581
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 2: enough to read these things. It's obvious that you and

582
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 2: I are highly educated people. Rather that's through college degrees

583
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: or from large amounts of reading, it's from caring about

584
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 2: these topics. But that has never been the case in

585
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 2: human history. And look at what we have been able

586
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 2: to achieve. When you're talking about the addresses of Frederick Douglas. Well,

587
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 2: as I'm sure you well know, and most of your

588
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 2: listeners probably know, it was illegal to teach Frederick Douglas

589
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 2: to read, and so throughout most of American history, we

590
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 2: cannot actually lay claim to this idea that all Americans

591
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 2: were reading the Greek Philosophers and pursuing virtue, when in fact,

592
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: they were more concerned about their day to day life,

593
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: about making sure their kids didn't die of yellow fever,

594
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: or that smallpox didn't visit their village, that they had

595
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 2: enough food that they didn't dive of hypothermia because they

596
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 2: didn't get the socks knit in time to me, rather

597
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: than catastrophizing the present and being like, well, people today

598
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 2: just don't read. It's a little bit like saying kids

599
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 2: or people these days don't want to work. Do you

600
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about you? I'm sure you've heard

601
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: the phrase people these days just nobody wants to work anymore.

602
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: People have actually been saying that specific thing for hundreds

603
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: of years. That's not a new thing. That's not a

604
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: new idea that people don't want to work anymore. You

605
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: can actually find old newspaper articles where somebody has written

606
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 2: a letter to the editor and we're talking like mid

607
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, people just don't want to work anymore. Turns

608
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 2: out humans actually.

609
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: It's like old person's disease, right, everything is, everything's going

610
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: to hell in a hand basket. But like I can't help,

611
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: Like I think like that. If I wonder if your

612
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: average American heard a version of FDR's fireside chat on

613
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: any given subject today, whether they could follow it in

614
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: in the language in which it's given, which is right,

615
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: which is you know, English, not not you know not

616
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:34,959
Speaker 1: in not not not idiocy right, And it's it's just

617
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: it's just kind of this remarkable right moment. I mean,

618
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 1: so what you're saying, and like I was just listening

619
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: to kind of reacting to it, like I completely agree

620
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: with you. And the point is like if you were

621
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: some past generation's equivalent of the person watching the CAF

622
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: videos all day until this very era, right this moment

623
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: in time, like you just wouldn't have made it, not

624
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: have eaten you and not right you and not have

625
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: you would not have made it right. And there's going

626
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: to be a lot more people in this age of

627
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence that have a lot of time on their

628
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: hands to watch yeah videos.

629
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's one of the big advances of society, right,

630
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: is that we have now invented huge amounts of free

631
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 2: time for ourselves.

632
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: That there's that John Adams quote, you know, I must

633
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: learn to be a soldier, so my son can my

634
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: children can learn to be I'm going to butcher the quote,

635
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: but my my my children can learn to be merchants,

636
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: so their children can learn to be artists. Great great

637
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,959
Speaker 1: grandchildren can sait idly watching.

638
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 2: Catfe on a handheld computer that contains the entirety of

639
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 2: human knowledge. So yeah, that the idea that the entirety

640
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: of human knowledge is available on a little and it's crazy.

641
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: The last thing I would say, you know, to that point,

642
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: it's been like a real pleasure being able to spend

643
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: time with you talk about these things. But you know,

644
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: I think one thing that people can't appreciate is how

645
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 1: young the country is. And one of the most mind

646
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: boggling factoids that I share with people that when I

647
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: say it to them, they they just pause for a minute.

648
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 1: And how can that be? But the tenth President of

649
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: the United States, John Tyler, was born in seventeen ninety one,

650
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: only president to serve in the Confederate House of Representatives.

651
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: He has a living grandson. He's a living grandson, the

652
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: tenth president born him in seventeen ninety one. And I

653
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: wanted to share a story about the history of the country,

654
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: about Minnesota, UH, with you on that I think is important. Uh.

655
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: There's a debate that plays out between the state of

656
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: Virginia and the state of Minnesota. Minnesota occasionally about a

657
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: flag and that that flag is a captured Confederate battle flag,

658
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: and it was captured on the second day of the

659
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: Battle of Gettysburg by the men of the first Minnesota

660
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: and and the story of that moment is important to understand,

661
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: because when you think about crisis in America and the

662
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: closest the country came, we came within sixty seconds of

663
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: the of the end, and the and the actual men

664
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: who saved the country in that minute, in that decisive

665
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: minute from its end, were the men of the of

666
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: the First Minnesota. And the story that there was a

667
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 1: New York congressman named Dan Sickles, and about one hundred

668
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: and fifty eight years before Donald Trump claimed that he

669
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: could shoot someone in broad daylight in New York and

670
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: get away with it, get reelected. Dan Sickles proved that

671
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: that was true. In his case, he became the first

672
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: person in America to claim an insanity defense after he

673
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: shot his wife's lover in Lafayette Square. And so it

674
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: came to be that he found himself commanding a Union

675
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: division as a major general, far out of position, with

676
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: thousands of Confederates charging forward towards a gap which would

677
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: have led them to the high ground, placing them between

678
00:50:55,440 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: the Union army and the Federal capital, with nothing to

679
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 1: stop them whatsoever. So the moment of victory Lee's gamble

680
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:12,240
Speaker 1: was very much at hand, and a man whose best

681
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: friend was to face him the next day in battle,

682
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: the man who had been his best man at his wedding,

683
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: William Scott Hancock, gallops down the line. He asked, what

684
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 1: military unit is this. There's no speeches. He simply says,

685
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: fixed bayonets in charge in the first Minnesota Charges, and

686
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: they turned back thousands of Confederates with a few hundred men,

687
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: eighty four percent of whom are casualties. What to this

688
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: day remains the deadliest action of a United States Armed

689
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: Forces unit. And so that story is an important one

690
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: to know because the country came within seconds of collapse

691
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: and without anywhere close to that line that we're in

692
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: a dangerous hour. And one of the things that if

693
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: you're a Warning subscriber or you share this website, that

694
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: you can do is to follow Sharon McMahon, follow the

695
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: teaching of civics, get the facts, know what you're talking about,

696
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: and read your American history. If for no other reason,

697
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,320
Speaker 1: it's the greatest drama that there's ever been, It's truly

698
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: one of the greatest stories that has ever been told,

699
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: is the forging of this country over a four hundred

700
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: year window into the most powerful civilization in human in

701
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: human history, with all its glory and all of it

702
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: and all of its sins, and it's an incredible story,

703
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: and I encourage you all to read more about it,

704
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: celebrate it, learn more about it, and do everything you

705
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: can to be a good citizen and to shape its

706
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: history and its future. Thank you very much for your

707
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 1: time today.

708
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: Thanks Everyboding