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Speaker 1: A media, How could we possibly talk about any sort

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Speaker 1: of election if we're not talking about the white evangelical.

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Speaker 2: We had to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: In this episode of Terrriforming, We're going to address the

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Speaker 1: white evangelical.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: I'm giving these qualifiers to what type of Christian we're

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Speaker 1: talking about for a number of reasons. One, because you

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Speaker 1: know your boy, whether you notice or not, your boy

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Speaker 1: knows the Bible.

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Speaker 2: In addition to.

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Speaker 1: Being you know, a hip hop artist and poet and

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Speaker 1: being formally trained in like social sciences, your boy has

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Speaker 1: theological training. And the truth is like if it come

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Speaker 1: to the scriptures cont to the Bible, and I mean

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Speaker 1: you don't want to smoke. Your boy knows what he's

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Speaker 1: talking about. Now, in a universe where gravity and the

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Speaker 1: other laws of physics that rule the universe, in a

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Speaker 1: world where those still apply, the advent of a Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump would have been unthinkable, anathema for all my Bible nerds.

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Speaker 1: He's a Nebakanezer character again, a nero, like just a

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Speaker 1: nimrod like. He's these characters that are these archetypes that

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Speaker 1: are in scripture that if you twist your arm hard enough,

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Speaker 1: if you twist your theology hard enough, then you could

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Speaker 1: say that like he is this rod of correction, this

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Speaker 1: godless rod of correction that God has sent to correct

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Speaker 1: the society a man who doesn't have the moral standards

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Speaker 1: and does not hold to the same things you hold

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Speaker 1: that God is using to correct the wrongs of society.

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Speaker 1: Like if you twist your theology well enough, you could

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Speaker 1: get there. But here's the thing about theology. Christian world

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Speaker 1: is like any other fandom. And I hope that doesn't

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Speaker 1: sound reductive. It's like any other fandom in the sense

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Speaker 1: that there are hardliners and liberals, there are people that

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Speaker 1: only have a surface on understanding. There's actual experts, quite

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Speaker 1: a diversity of thought ways that those are practice. You

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Speaker 1: have your orthodoxy, which is like what we believe, and

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Speaker 1: then your orthopraxy, which is what we practice, like correcting

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Speaker 1: your practice. Theologically speaking, you want both of those to

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Speaker 1: meet in a way that is consistent, aligned to the

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Speaker 1: tenets of the faith that we say we hold to

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Speaker 1: consistently God. But yeah, i've gravity worked the way we

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Speaker 1: thought it would, especially with somebody like a conservative evangelical

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Speaker 1: who presents themselves as the moral compass of the world.

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Speaker 1: Like how you can put a man in power who's

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Speaker 1: been married three times, all his kids got different mamas,

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Speaker 1: with three different mamas, and cheated on all of them,

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Speaker 1: one of which is with the porn star just who

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Speaker 1: has done incredibly shady business. Like I just don't one

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Speaker 1: would think that that would not fly with this group

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Speaker 1: of people.

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Speaker 2: And know same people.

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Speaker 1: To consider a man who has been married once to

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Speaker 1: the same woman and all his children got the same

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Speaker 1: mom and daddy and there's no scandals and no infidelity,

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Speaker 1: and no stories about his personal dealings has ever surfaced.

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Speaker 2: How he's the Antichry? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Man, gravity just doesn't work the way he used to.

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Speaker 1: But that's not what I'm trying to get at here.

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Speaker 1: What I'm trying to get at here is there are

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Speaker 1: what we call essentials and non essentials and things that

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Speaker 1: we just can disagree on. But at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, you're in we're all in the same house.

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Speaker 1: But then there are things that has been decided that

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Speaker 1: this is a line in the sand. If you believe

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Speaker 1: this thing, then you're out. That would essentially mean that

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Speaker 1: you're not a Christian because you can't. This is a

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Speaker 1: do not pass go issue. The issue is the people

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Speaker 1: that have decided that what those lines are are basically

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Speaker 1: self appointed, Like nobody agreed that y'all would be the

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Speaker 1: arbiters of what is actually sound biblic doctrine, as they

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Speaker 1: would say, you self selected that. And I'm saying this

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Speaker 1: from the inside of the room, not the outside. And

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Speaker 1: like pretty much everything else in the world, the people.

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Speaker 2: That did that were the white boys.

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Speaker 1: The white boys decided the who have followed the church

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Speaker 1: history through the Gospel going north up into Europe, rather

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Speaker 1: than going south, which is where it went first, it

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Speaker 1: went southeast rather than northwest.

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Speaker 2: First.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about leaving Judea, leaving the areas of Israel

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Speaker 1: and Palestine where he's from. As a as a fun aside,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jesus was born in Bethlehem. You know where

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Speaker 1: Bethlehem is. It's in the West Bank, It's in Palestine.

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Speaker 1: So there's that, and and and the issue with these

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Speaker 1: white boys is kind of like, of course, I'm using

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Speaker 1: this in a remarkably broad sense because it's a very

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Speaker 1: specific white boy that decided they are the arbiters of truth.

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Speaker 1: Is not all of them, Okay, So Jesus just just

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Speaker 1: stay with me, just like I know every black people

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Speaker 1: don't gangbang, I understand we talking about, but follow me here.

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Speaker 1: As a cultural trend, the white evangelical has decided they

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Speaker 1: are the keepers of the flame. Now what's even crazier is,

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Speaker 1: if you want to get more into the weeds, it's

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Speaker 1: really the white American Calvinists. And if you really want

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Speaker 1: to get wonky, Calvinists aren't actually evangelical and they don't

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Speaker 1: even agree because you have Baptist Calvinists. But anyway, we're

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Speaker 1: getting in the weeds here, just like if we were

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Speaker 1: to get into like a DC and Marvel argument, we

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Speaker 1: would be in the weeds in a way that would

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Speaker 1: make your eyes go blurry.

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Speaker 2: But they've decided that they're the artists.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, like, if you understand the trajectory

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Speaker 1: of Christian thought, what is considered orthodox or correct has

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Speaker 1: changed over time and has continued to it even changes

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Speaker 1: within the Bible. People realizing that like, hey, maybe they

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Speaker 1: didn't understand what they believed well enough, or culture has

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Speaker 1: changed or science has changed, and like knowledge has changed.

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Speaker 1: And now it's like the idea of like, well we

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Speaker 1: have better tools. Are academia is better, There's better tools,

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Speaker 1: there's better ways to translate this ancient Aramaic perish the thought.

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Speaker 1: But actually speaking to people from the region that would

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Speaker 1: possibly tell you that they don't have to be Christian

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Speaker 1: or Jewish, They could just tell you, like, yeah, that's.

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Speaker 2: Not what that worris means. My mama says it all

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Speaker 2: the time.

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Speaker 1: I mean this, We now know more about context history, archaeology, anthropology.

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Speaker 1: We just know more to realize that, Yeah, these dudes

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Speaker 1: that are interpreting the Bible from the fifteen hundreds were

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Speaker 1: reading from a Latin translation, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: which was not even what it was written in in

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Speaker 1: the first place. Those like realizing that, like yeah, like

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Speaker 1: they just made mistakes, and it's an honest mistake. And

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Speaker 1: now that we've made this honest mistake, like you dude,

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Speaker 1: we got to change the way we think about these things.

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Speaker 1: Like that's happening and has continued to happen all the time.

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Speaker 1: But if you've decided that you're the guys who gets

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Speaker 1: to decide what is right and wrong, then everybody else

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Speaker 1: is wrong. Like what prop give an example, well, six creation,

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Speaker 1: seven day rest and the earth being six thousand years old.

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Speaker 1: Bible nerds now have been trying to say forever that

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Speaker 1: like y'all reading this all wrong. That's not even what

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Speaker 1: it says, or even what it's trying to say. You're

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Speaker 1: missing the point. This isn't surveillance camera footage where you

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Speaker 1: watch the world being made. No, it's not the point.

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Speaker 1: It's a theological statement about purpose and order. That's what

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Speaker 1: create means. But anyway, and the Bible nerds are trying

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Speaker 1: to tell you it's not wings a change move.

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Speaker 2: Very slowly.

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Speaker 1: Now, having said all that, know that the white evangelical

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Speaker 1: only represents eleven percent of the full Christian world. My lord,

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Speaker 1: we haven't even talked about the Spanish speaking Catholic world,

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Speaker 1: Like you're barely anybody. The problem is they just have

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Speaker 1: the microphone. And what comes with the microphone is power,

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Speaker 1: a power that was broken at least in America. You

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Speaker 1: could argue all the way back to like Phylish Slapley

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Speaker 1: and the religious right and John Bursch Society and Autumn weirdos,

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Speaker 1: but ultimately it's a power move to preserve a way

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Speaker 1: of life that essentially upheld white supremacy. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how else to explain it. Masquerading as family values,

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Speaker 1: and there have been people inside the church that have

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Speaker 1: been ringing the alarm forever that you know, maybe one

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Speaker 1: day I'll bring those people around, like my man Jamar

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Speaker 1: Tisby or the boys show Baraka the homegirl Sandra. I

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Speaker 1: always say her name wrong because she's actually Puerto Rican,

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Speaker 1: but she married his wife. I always forget her her

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Speaker 1: how to say her last name? Hopes the ball anyway,

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Speaker 1: she's got the thing called chasing justice. Like is people

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Speaker 1: outside really trying to like correct the ship? But either way,

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Speaker 1: this is the world we live in and inside of

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people, including myself. Now, I didn't

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Speaker 1: grow up as a white evangelical obviously, but I come

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Speaker 1: from the wing of the church that has in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways been the conscious of America. Like who

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Speaker 1: actually has kept forced America to come to task, stand

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Speaker 1: on business and keep their promises and correct the wrongs

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Speaker 1: that they've done. And time and again it's been to

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Speaker 1: black church abolitionists, civil rights movement, like as far as

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Speaker 1: the church is concerned, it's been us that's been like

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Speaker 1: a NAFAM now is not without its own problems, of course,

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Speaker 1: but point being, there has been issues in are justice

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Speaker 1: and liberation that have not been tenable, and it's been

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Speaker 1: us that's been like standard, but anyway, I'm off topic.

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Speaker 1: Inside of that are truly loving humans who just happen

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Speaker 1: to go to these churches and grow up in these

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Speaker 1: spaces that, from all you know, are just making you

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Speaker 1: a decent human being. And then there are situations that

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Speaker 1: make that untenable. Sometimes it's around your sexuality. Sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: around again your skin color. Sometimes it's around the treatment

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Speaker 1: of others and of immigrants, and sometimes it's around politics.

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Speaker 1: And you find yourself in a situation where this spiritual

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Speaker 1: belief and practice has served you well and like you

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Speaker 1: truly believe you know Jesus Lord and died for your

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Speaker 1: seeings like you or or something somewhere close to that.

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Speaker 1: You understand that like loving God and neighbor is like

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Speaker 1: still the gold that I got, like I want to

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Speaker 1: be I want.

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Speaker 2: To be like Jesus.

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Speaker 1: But this context, culture, and direction has made your life

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Speaker 1: made it untenable. I can't stay here, I can't in

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Speaker 1: good conscious even if I'm trying to be like the

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Speaker 1: Jesus I say, I profess.

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Speaker 2: That means I can't keep rocking with y'all. What do

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Speaker 2: you do then?

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Speaker 1: Who are the people that still want to hold on

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Speaker 1: to the tenets of their faith, but are just like,

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Speaker 1: I cannot fuck with the rest of this.

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Speaker 2: I just it, just it. The math is in math,

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Speaker 2: it's impossible.

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Speaker 1: Allow me to introduce you to Kevin Garcia, and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna let him tell you more about himself. All right,

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Speaker 1: you up in there now. I have done an extensive

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Speaker 1: intro already, great for the pod people that you will

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Speaker 1: hear when this actually airs, or I could play it

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Speaker 1: before you, but anyway, it's basically what I texted you

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Speaker 1: already where I'm like, all right, listen, this is about

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Speaker 1: to be a nightmare year as far as the public discourse.

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Speaker 1: Maybe our personal lives might be amazing, yep, say.

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Speaker 3: It, but god, I'm that's what I'm gaming for, right,

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Speaker 3: That's what I want.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's the goal.

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Speaker 1: But I do a show, as you know, called Hood

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Speaker 1: Politics will prop where essentially the idea is these politicians,

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Speaker 1: political buness, whatever it happens, whatever's happening in the world.

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Speaker 2: These people are not smarter than you. They just use

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Speaker 2: another language.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I am pretty sure your experiences growing up

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Speaker 1: where you grew up actually equipped you more than you

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Speaker 1: think you do to understand what's going on in the

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Speaker 1: way world. Right, So normally what I try to do

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Speaker 1: is I try to stay ahead.

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Speaker 2: I try not to get more.

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Speaker 1: Than four episodes ahead in the can because of how

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Speaker 1: fast things happen. Right this year, I'm like eight weeks

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Speaker 1: ahead because so much happens, so.

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Speaker 3: Much is happening, there's so much to cover, and there's

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Speaker 3: like it's all necessary.

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Speaker 2: It's all necessary. You can't skip anything.

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Speaker 3: It's like all hands on deck education so that we

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Speaker 3: can like not even like like full fully education, but

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Speaker 3: just like equipping people exactly. Yeah, I think this is

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Speaker 3: necessary to yeah, to not totally slip into two fascism.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: There's Yeah, there's this like amazing silver place silvered Metals

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Speaker 1: second place run happening on the Republican side, where y'all

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Speaker 1: just so fighting for a consolation prize for some reason,

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Speaker 1: so wild to watch. Yeah, and you're about to lose

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Speaker 1: to someone who didn't even show up, who ain't come

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Speaker 1: to none of the shit and has ninety one cases

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Speaker 1: and who go put it, which is why you're here,

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Speaker 1: part of why you're here, and who is probably gonna

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Speaker 1: put him in office is a voter block who looked

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Speaker 1: at a man ten years ago, who was the husband

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Speaker 1: of one wife, who had no scandals, who raised his

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Speaker 1: children in ways that are moral and have a typical

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Speaker 1: you know, like very typical, kept them out of the spotlight,

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Speaker 1: who have like perfect, perfect children, and chose the guy

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Speaker 1: with three baby mamas who cheated on all of them,

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Speaker 1: mamas with adult porn stars, paid them off, cheated on everything.

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Speaker 2: It used to be a woman, lie talk to the woman,

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Speaker 2: lied about it, and.

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Speaker 3: Discriminated against black people for housing in the twentieth century,

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Speaker 3: like in the in the eighties and nineties, like not

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Speaker 3: even in the seventies.

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Speaker 2: But the black dudes, danti Christ got it.

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Speaker 3: So a sign of the Antichrist, and this is the

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Speaker 3: tribulation any day now we are going.

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Speaker 2: To be raptured up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like yeah, so so so so the church folks

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Speaker 1: chose that dude, right, which is a thing. While at

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Speaker 1: the same time, it's wars breaking out all over the country,

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Speaker 1: all over the world that we somehow are funding.

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Speaker 3: Uh there what money? That's the other thing I want

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Speaker 3: to know.

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Speaker 2: That's where y'all Where are y'all fighting this one?

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Speaker 3: Yet it's like we cannot, we cannot forgive your student

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Speaker 3: loan debts.

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Speaker 2: We cannot help just really build the money. I really

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Speaker 2: we really need to go bomb these kids. You have

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Speaker 2: to war, just.

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Speaker 1: And one of these wars are any of our business

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Speaker 1: on top of that, right, So just all of this

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Speaker 1: happens and here we are, and then I haven't even

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Speaker 1: got to cover the just the gift that twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: three ended us with of George Santos, Like, I haven't

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Speaker 1: even got to get that one out.

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Speaker 2: Well, just god, if we can even touch on that

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Speaker 2: crazy silly moment. Dude.

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Speaker 1: It was like, it was like, please tell me watch

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Speaker 1: the z Way interview with him.

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Speaker 2: Of course I did. I was like, you like it.

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Speaker 1: I must feel I must think for for the gaze,

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Speaker 1: it has to feel like he's like a he's like

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Speaker 1: a Colon Powell character that we thought of for black

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Speaker 1: people to where you're like, god, damn it, you get

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Speaker 1: a black man in position to really affect change. You're

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Speaker 1: super proud of what he is, and then you do

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Speaker 1: this shit and you're just like.

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Speaker 3: But not that, like that, not like it's just like

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Speaker 3: it was like this was how how did we huh?

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Speaker 3: It's like it's it's really like a case of like

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Speaker 3: how did it happen? Like and I look at George

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Speaker 3: Santos and I'm just like, from it's one of these

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Speaker 3: really interesting things if you look at it from like,

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Speaker 3: this is the problem. Politics has become entertainment, yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: and spectacle absolutely, And so this is also part of

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Speaker 3: the problem that I can look at this and you know,

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Speaker 3: some gays would say, oh my god, I can iconic

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Speaker 3: or like it's like as oh yeah, that's iconic gay

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Speaker 3: behavior or something like that, And of course it's in

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Speaker 3: jest because it's actually quite horrifying that absolutely, yeah, who

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Speaker 3: lied about everything and then got removed, is still trying

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Speaker 3: to stand.

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Speaker 2: Tinto's down on what he did.

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Speaker 1: He's still standing all business like and you respect it.

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Speaker 3: But it's like as as a grift, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 3: like scammer's gonna scam so like you did as far

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Speaker 3: as you can, but just like you're still no Donald J. Trump,

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Speaker 3: unfortunate you still JV. Yeah, man, the grift of it all.

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Speaker 3: And I think the thing like I watched the Iowa caucus,

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Speaker 3: so if that puts us in a timeline for anyone

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Speaker 3: listening that just happened this past Tuesday and seeing how

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Speaker 3: the numbers have jumped up, but like almost doubled in

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Speaker 3: every category of people who were supporting him back in

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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen. Yeah, and you know, like you know, we

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Speaker 3: thought like, oh yeah, like we're finally you know. I

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Speaker 3: was like part of like the crew was like okay,

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Speaker 3: so like not my first choice for a president, but

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Speaker 3: we gotta do it. We got to do it.

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Speaker 1: Like you know.

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Speaker 3: I was also like we were like going hard for

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Speaker 3: Stacy Abriams here in Georgia, and it was like the

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Speaker 3: heartbreak of heartbreaks, but like we were just like this

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Speaker 3: was supposed this was supposed to be our years. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 3: right right, and jokes jokes, and like I feel like

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Speaker 3: even those of us who like we're all like hardcore

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Speaker 3: Obama campaigners too, Like, you know, we look back on

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Speaker 3: it now, we see, you know, how many bombs he

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Speaker 3: dropped on different places, and we never heard about it

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Speaker 3: talked about it because we just didn't know what we

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Speaker 3: didn't know. Yeah, and now it's almost just like, you know,

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Speaker 3: to quote the NAP Bishop her self, trust to Hersey,

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Speaker 3: we have been pambou soled.

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Speaker 1: Yes, facts and like in you know, my my partners

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Speaker 1: obviously Latina and her thing was like in the Latino community,

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Speaker 1: they were like we was proud, but you know, he

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Speaker 1: was the deporter in chief, Like he parted more people.

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Speaker 2: He parted more people than any president before him. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's just this.

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Speaker 1: He was just nice about it, you know, and that's

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Speaker 1: it just sucks, man. So I wanted to every month

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Speaker 1: this year bring in people actually putting good in the world.

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Speaker 1: So while we're talking about all this stuff, like you

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Speaker 1: feel dooms, yeah, like all the doom that and there

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Speaker 1: is enough. There are people out there telling better stories,

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Speaker 1: creating better narratives, even in spaces that one would think

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Speaker 1: are irredeemable. And that's where Kevin Garcia comes in. So

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Speaker 1: my first I saw your merch before I saw you,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, hell yeah, so your merch

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Speaker 1: says bad theology kills and I was like, oh shit,

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Speaker 1: like this is so And why it's so brilliant to

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Speaker 1: me is because the like the angry Calvinists would buy

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Speaker 1: your shirt not knowing you know what I'm saying that like,

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Speaker 1: because they say the same shit, the fool you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying saying, Yeah, they would say the same thing,

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Speaker 1: you feel me. And then the you know, the rolling

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Speaker 1: on the ground talking and tongue Pentecosta would buy your shirt.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, not knowing you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, What's really going on here? And you sit

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Speaker 1: in this amazing intersection. What I said in the interview

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Speaker 1: was like, there are people who have felt as though

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Speaker 1: there were things about their christian and I'm saying like international,

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Speaker 1: not just like Western Evangelical, like Christian upbringing or base

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Speaker 1: that really still resonates with them. But staying there was untenable.

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Speaker 1: Was just I can't stay in this culture. There are

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Speaker 1: things like you said that the alternative is taking my

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Speaker 1: own life or someone taking.

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Speaker 2: It for me.

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Speaker 1: The alternative is death death? Right, where do I go?

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? And I did a deep

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Speaker 1: dive and I was like, this, dude's a g like

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Speaker 1: who like.

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Speaker 2: I have different about this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Kev's different, right, So now I'm gonna let you

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Speaker 1: speak for yourself.

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Speaker 2: I did all that, soh So.

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Speaker 3: I mean you've juiced up my ego in a nice way,

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Speaker 3: especially because I was feeling like shit today.

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Speaker 2: So this is great.

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Speaker 1: I tell you, like, nah, you you you a terror

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Speaker 1: former man. You you you build, you building a bigger

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Speaker 1: world year. So keV, all right, start us off the

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Speaker 1: background to what we're doing now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, in two minutes.

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Speaker 3: Helps kidding, No, no, no, I can do like the elevator

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Speaker 3: pitch because you know we've all who can't exactly you've

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Speaker 3: been talking on stage as long as we have.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: So, Hi, my name is Kevin Miyl Garcia pronouns they them,

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Speaker 3: although like I like they he and she just like

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Speaker 3: depends on how I'm looking, looking like a dude. But

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Speaker 3: I also like to tell people just like if you

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Speaker 3: can lean towards them, I would prefer it. I am

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Speaker 3: the author of two books, Bad Theology Kills was the

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Speaker 3: first one and subtitle Undoing Toxic Belief and Reclaiming Your

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Speaker 3: Spiritual Authority Brian I. I wrote that book could kind

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Speaker 3: of like help with the first half of my life

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Speaker 3: of asking the question like why do I believe what

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Speaker 3: I do? Because I grew up in a good Christian home.

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Speaker 3: My mom was the worship leader, my uncle was the pastor.

401
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 3: I got baptized at age nine because I was I

402
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Speaker 3: felt the Holy goes.

403
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Speaker 2: Because you're supposed to God's moving.

404
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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And I really do think from that moment on,

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Speaker 3: I had this connection to the divine, to the christ

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Speaker 3: and that was one thing I never questioned, which is

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Speaker 3: very funny even after even now, as I say, like,

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Speaker 3: I don't even know if I'm a Christian, but we'll

409
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Speaker 3: get to that in a second. I realized I was

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Speaker 3: queer in high school. My dad added me to my mom,

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Speaker 3: and then I was in x gay ministry with Exodus

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Speaker 3: International if you wish I had, But I was in

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Speaker 3: that world for like twelve years of my own volition

414
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Speaker 3: because like they promised hope for change, and then when

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Speaker 3: they shuttered their doors and said we've made a grave

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Speaker 3: mistake in the most literal sense of the word, I

417
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 3: started questioning things. But I still kind of held onto

418
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Speaker 3: a not a kind of I held onto a traditional

419
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Speaker 3: belief for years, you know, fell from one pentecostal cult

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Speaker 3: into like a missionary cult, and.

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Speaker 2: Like did missionary work for a while.

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Speaker 3: And then when I came out in that space, they

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Speaker 3: were like, even though, like I'm not gonna lie, I

424
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 3: go back to I have my old journals from that time.

425
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Speaker 3: I was such a self righteous ass dude. I was

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Speaker 3: zealous and I was trying to beast. I was the

427
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Speaker 3: best Christian. Like if we're looking at the points, yes,

428
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Speaker 3: I won, Yeah, and I was so mad because nobody

429
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Speaker 3: else was as.

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Speaker 2: Serious as I was. I'm just like, damn, damn putting

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Speaker 2: it into work, y'all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I got the I got the grace of the Cross,

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Speaker 1: but I need less of the grace because yeah, I.

434
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Speaker 2: Don't need grace.

435
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Speaker 3: I need I need jewels in my crown, which yes,

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Speaker 3: that's what I want.

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00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: Yes.

438
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: And so when I got kicked out of that world,

439
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 3: best thing that could have happened to me, and I

440
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: kind of started carving out of life for myself in Atlanta,

441
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 3: h I was big into like I used to be

442
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 3: somebody who was like considered myself a reformer and wanted

443
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 3: to be somebody who actively organized within non affirming spaces

444
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: to bring about affirmation. Then I realized that doesn't fucking work.

445
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: So so for y'all who there is a the vast

446
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,479
Speaker 1: majority these listeners have no idea what any of these

447
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: terms mean. What they mean is the idea is that

448
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 1: within the Christian within the Christian tradition, especially in the

449
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: States because Europe is different. They they've had this conversation

450
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: decades ago.

451
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: Yes, there is this space where there are.

452
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: Churches who have gotten to a place to where they're

453
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: completely accepting of the queer community, and the term for

454
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: that is affirming we are gay. Affirming like I go

455
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: to a church like this, where are we are lesbian?

456
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: You know, pastors and this it's queer, it's trance or whatever, right,

457
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: And then there are other places that they would call

458
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: gay welcoming, which is like you could be here, just

459
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: don't tell nobody, like just don't doming, but not affirming. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

460
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: like don't don't welcome. And most of the time that's

461
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: where the Black church is, where in general it's like

462
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: we all know the choir directors gay, Like everyone knows this,

463
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, and we just don't talk about it, you know,

464
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: you just we know those two antis are not those

465
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: two ants. Yes they are not best friends. She's not

466
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: bringing her her best friend, that's her boot, Like we

467
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: know it, you know, you just don't talk about it.

468
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: And then there are the vast.

469
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: Majority that are like y'all going to hell, like you

470
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: you can just outright rejecting, Yes, yeah, you can be here,

471
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: And a lot of times it's like it's real weird

472
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: because like you could be here. We think you're talented,

473
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 1: you're gifted, you're an amazing singer just you just you

474
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: just can't be talk about officially in leadership, yeah, or

475
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: you can't talk about it. It's either don't ask, don't tell,

476
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: and you can fully participate, yeah, or you do tell

477
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: and you limit your participation in the space for ever.

478
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: But we love you, but we love you. But we

479
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 3: love you, but we're going to continue to do the

480
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: thing that hurts you. And how a friend is called

481
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 3: an abusive relations an abusive love.

482
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

483
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: So that's what you felt like was your mission for

484
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: a while, because it was always missional, always very dedicated

485
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: to like the institution of the church.

486
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and uh, you know, as I as my my

487
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 3: person just began to expand you know, it was you know,

488
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 3: as I read text from other faith, as I you know,

489
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: started like my yogaic practices and actually leaning into yoga

490
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 3: not just as like a floor exercise that people do

491
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 3: and like make you look sexy after you you know,

492
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 3: stole it from everybody else in India, but like as

493
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 3: an actual spiritual path and a way of orienting yourself

494
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 3: to the world.

495
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: It changed my life.

496
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 3: And after like as I'm going into my yoga practices,

497
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 3: it like sent me like still like I have a

498
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 3: weird devotion to Jesus as my teacher and my friend

499
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 3: and my brother. Yeah, and that led me to begin

500
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 3: showing other people how to cultivate spiritual practices for themselves.

501
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 3: That felt good, That helped process some of the trauma

502
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: that you've been carrying in your body for too long,

503
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 3: and ask the question, Okay, so, like who is God

504
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 3: to me now? And how am I going to connect

505
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 3: to that thing? Whether I call it Source or love

506
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 3: the universe, or maybe I still call it like you know,

507
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 3: you know, call Jesus is part of that. It doesn't

508
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 3: really matter to me. It matters that you connect with it,

509
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 3: because what I'm aware of and what I truly believe

510
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 3: is now more than ever, it is really, really important

511
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 3: that we keep our spiritual practices because this shit is

512
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 3: only going to get harder out here speaking of all

513
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: the things we talked about before, and we need more

514
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 3: people who are alive and awake and aware.

515
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: So that we.

516
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 3: Don't lose more of what we already have. It's like

517
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: it's both like for a for personal liberation, but your

518
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 3: personal liberation will help lead you to collective liberation. It's

519
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: like the most delicious thing in the world and That's

520
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 3: what I wrote about in my second book, which is

521
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: called What Makes You Bloom, And it just came out

522
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 3: last week, and I'm really proud of you.

523
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: Oh let's go. We'll drop the link in the bio,

524
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: well not in the bio show notes. Yeah.

525
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: I think what resonates about your story so much to

526
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: me is, you know I I the different sort of.

527
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 3: Like God tips shot such your talk. Sorry, yes she

528
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: saw a squirrel and was I love it so real?

529
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: Come here, come here girl. Good it's it shot out

530
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: and now we can continue all the behind ambassaards listeners.

531
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: I I have these not the same, but I have

532
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: these sort of eras of the times or traditions that

533
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: I existed in within within the faith too.

534
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: There's my.

535
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: Like my family of origin, you know, Citizens Design Missionary

536
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: Baptist Church. You know what I'm saying, Like with with

537
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: you know, with my my my grandma on them, you

538
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: know that was like this is our family church, right,

539
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: And then there was extended family. And then there was

540
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: the like the church my parents found. Like I come

541
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: from an inner city tradition. We weren't necessarily like evangelical.

542
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: We were just like y'all, don't join gangs and get

543
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: people pregnant.

544
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: Like that was the extent, you know what I mean.

545
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 2: It wasn't.

546
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: We had elements of purity culture, but we really didn't

547
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: have that, you know, the sort of you know, white bread,

548
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: because we weren't white people, you know what I mean. So,

549
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: so we didn't have a lot of the sort of

550
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: the issues that a lot of the other like American

551
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: churches had, you know, we were we were very involved

552
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: in civic duties, you know, working with the poor. Like

553
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: you would ask anybody's grandma. Where your grandma out on Tuesday?

554
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: She's at the homelessl ch you know. So we were

555
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: already in that. I'm the child of a black panther,

556
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: so I have histories of you know, the civil rights

557
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: movement in Malcolm X and just all this like longer

558
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: richer tradition of you know, the Black Church, you know,

559
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: inner City Church in a lot of ways being the

560
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: moral compass of America. You know, So you have you have,

561
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: I have that in my heritage, you know. But I

562
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: started reading more. Like I said, my father was, he

563
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: was a street duty. He's also very intelligent. So like

564
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: I was aware of Muslim traditions, I was aware of

565
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: you know, African practices I was aware of. You know,

566
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: I lived in a Mexican neighborhood, so I was aware

567
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: of just other cultures. And I felt like for me,

568
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: the next era for me was like I didn't get

569
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: the academic rigor and where it was like this was

570
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: very much about like liberation, but liberation only you know

571
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: what I mean.

572
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: But I'm like, but I'm smart, you know.

573
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: So I thought somehow or another, I was smarter than

574
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 1: my great grandma, like the holiest person I ever met,

575
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

576
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: Like I thought I was smarter than her.

577
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: So that's where the soare into like reform theology caught

578
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: me because I was like this is this is it's academic,

579
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, so I can prove it.

580
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: Yes, I can prove it.

581
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: So I was like I was drinking it up, but

582
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: I was drinking it up with a foundation of coming

583
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: from liberation, you know. So for me, I was like

584
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: it was it was very easy for me to any

585
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: of the other like really toxic stuff at least for

586
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: my perception to just kind of wash off me because

587
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: I didn't come from this, you know.

588
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: So I was like, I'm not swimming in these waters.

589
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: I have this other foundation, right, that and so, and

590
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: then you become a public figure.

591
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: And then at that point, at that point, Nashville comes

592
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 2: in the scene.

593
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: And again, I'm from California, so I didn't know nothing

594
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: about nobody.

595
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: I thought people were a straight shooters. They'll tell you

596
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: what they're thinking. That's what happened. That's what happened. I thought.

597
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: You know, you walk into a building in Nashville and

598
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: there's a Bible verse on the wall. You're like, Oh,

599
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: it's dope. You know, because I'm from Cali. So I'm like,

600
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: that's crazy. Y'all got like, dang, that's cool. I got

601
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: religion out here. Y'all really be you know. First first

602
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: question might ask you was like where you go to church?

603
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: And I'll be like, what, like, yeah, yeah, you know.

604
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: So to me, I was like, damn, y'all really about it.

605
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,719
Speaker 1: And then it was like and then and then the

606
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: facade came down quick where I was like, oh, you

607
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: motherfuckers are racist, this is it?

608
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was like that so wow. And they

609
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: don't even know it.

610
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: You don't even know it, and and and the the

611
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: first thing for me was just this whole like I

612
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: couldn't get my brain around this, like just just this

613
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: love for the Puritans and yeah, I'm like again, I'm

614
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: the child of a panther. And I'm like, are y'all

615
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: are we looking at the same timeline? You talking about

616
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: the slave owners like we're the greatest, Like what did

617
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: you talk about?

618
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 3: These are the don't even talk about that part. They

619
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 3: came here for religious freedom. Okay, That's what they came

620
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: to America for. That's what I learned about the Puritans.

621
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: And I'm like and I'm like, also so they could

622
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 3: keep their slaves and burn their witches. And I'm like, yes,

623
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 3: every good American they were the like even of their time,

624
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 3: they were the Pharisees. I'm like, even of their time,

625
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 3: they were the bad guys. Like I don't understand why

626
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 3: y'all loved him so like so they really said like

627
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 3: like no drinking, no smoke, and no sex before marriage. Also,

628
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 3: if we even suspect you of any of these things,

629
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 3: we're going to put you in the fucking stocks.

630
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: You're going to stocks, yes, like wild And I'm like

631
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: you're talking about the Valley of Vision And I'm like, okay,

632
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: so you had time, So you're telling me in a.

633
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 2: In a Gregorian error.

634
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: You had time to lay in a pasture and contemplate

635
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 1: the stars, which means that no one's growing your food

636
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 1: or someone else is growing your food, and that someone

637
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,720
Speaker 1: else's growing your food are my ancestors. So you're telling

638
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: me that they had their theology right because they gave

639
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: black people the gospel. I'm like, you're talking about you're

640
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: talking about the country, the nation that had the church

641
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: four hundred years before you did.

642
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: Like, is that what you're trying to tell on me

643
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: right now? My mind?

644
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: So for me, I was like I kind of had

645
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: the same thing. I was like, oh, maybe y'all don't know,

646
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: so let me start telling you.

647
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 3: And then when they went and then you say and

648
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 3: then you start telling them and they're like, well, we

649
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 3: don't want to.

650
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 2: Be divisive, Yes, yes, you know.

651
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 3: It's that's the other thing is that it's this there's

652
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 3: a dedication to the institution in such a way. Well

653
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 3: because like if the church crumbles or like the not

654
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 3: even the church, but just their institution. Because everybody is

655
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 3: so individual, they think that they're one thing. Is God's mission,

656
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 3: Yes to this city and the cities of the world,

657
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 3: you know, like city, Yeah, it's it's it's like you

658
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 3: don't really like they don't even see themselves as part

659
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: of like a greater tradition of Christianity because they think

660
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 3: if they're they're only on a business model.

661
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: And it started and it started with Calvin. Like that's

662
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: the part that bugged me out. I'm like, it starts

663
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 1: with the Reformation, or they starts with Martin Luther. I'm like,

664
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: you know that that's that's like fifteen hundred years later,

665
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: Like are you are y'all serious?

666
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 2: Like you did?

667
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 3: Just like like this is the point. And also Martin Luther,

668
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 3: while brilliant, bound by his time because that man hated

669
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 3: Jewish people in a big wait. Nobody wants to talk

670
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 3: about that the foundation to talk about Nobody want to

671
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 3: talk about that.

672
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: He's us an amazing called Jews and their lies come.

673
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: He wrote that book, wrote that book. Your boy Johnathan

674
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: Edwards was like, who was progressive for his time, was like,

675
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, if the Africans and the savages and the

676
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 1: savage and the savages, the Native Americans were, if they're human,

677
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: that means they're made in the image of God, which

678
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: means we should give them the Gospel.

679
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 2: I'm just not sure they're human. That's your boy John

680
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 2: at the Edwards. That's your boy.

681
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: John had been in us. It's not sure yet that's

682
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: your boy. That's that's your church father. So so to me,

683
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah, this the cement has settled,

684
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 1: Like oh yeah, like we're yeah. I was like, oh,

685
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: y'all okay. And the idea like which I also mentioned

686
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: in the intro, which you didn't hear but you'll know now,

687
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: is like we're talking about not even eleven percent of

688
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: the full Christian experience. Like you're eleven percent and you've

689
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: made yourself to police for the rest of it.

690
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 2: Anyway, Yeah, we just happened to exist.

691
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: But like, but like you, there were things about this,

692
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: you know, the conquering line of Judah, you know, Christ

693
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 1: the victor, this liberator, this, this you know Moses character

694
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: that you know again for our tradition is like we

695
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 1: look at Exodus and we're like that's it. Like, look,

696
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: you know, we're moving from slavery to freedom. You feel me,

697
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: whether it's in our physical bodies or in our spiritual bodies,

698
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: this narrative of again, of liberation is something that it

699
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: still resonates, and a liberation that's not just that's not

700
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: just internal, that's not just the personal, but it is

701
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: collective and it is for the world. Like I'm like,

702
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: I still I still find this a beautiful starting to me, Yes,

703
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: I still find this a beautiful story. And and then

704
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: I see that story all over the world like in

705
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 1: other faiths, in other traditions and other this.

706
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 2: And I'm like, hello, that's really it. Yeah.

707
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 3: The further I went into yogic studies, the more I

708
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 3: found I'm just like, oh, wait, I know this story,

709
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: I know this or I know this idea by another name. Yes, yes,

710
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 3: And that just for me, like just it didn't like

711
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 3: freak me out. It made me so excited because I'm

712
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 3: just like that the same spirit that raised Christs from

713
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: the dead, it's the same one talking to Bagua and

714
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 3: Ninianan does, the same one talking to potentially is the

715
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: same one talking to the prophet Mahin, And it's the

716
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 3: same one talking to et cetera, et cetera. It's the

717
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 3: same one talking to you and your still small voice

718
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 3: when you're really quiet and actually are listening.

719
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: H h. And and then even on top of that,

720
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: and and all of those people's in traditions had to

721
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: deal with the bullshit, just like we had to deal

722
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: with our bullshit, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, so,

723
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: but the but the story still resonates. So I think

724
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: you coming back around to that and then landing on

725
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: this phrase, bad theology kills hm. Can you expand that

726
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: a little more to tell me what you mean by that? Yes,

727
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's very clear. I hope it

728
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: is that theology kills period.

729
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 3: And to add more words to that, I feel like

730
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 3: you boil it down. It's three words long. But what

731
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 3: I mean by bad theology is that any thought about

732
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 3: God that would lead someone inevitably to the conclusion that

733
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 3: their life is not worth continuing for any reason is bad.

734
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 3: And I think it's worth questioning at minimum. If your

735
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 3: theology is causing people to kill themselves, yeah, then then

736
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 3: you should question that. And so I started with like

737
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 3: the question of queerness and being you know, can you

738
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 3: be ga and Christian? That was the question I started

739
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 3: out with because that's what I was when I started

740
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 3: that journey. Because the thought that homosexuality or queerness or

741
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 3: transness was an aberration or said another way, a abomination

742
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 3: for God. You can't know unless you've walked through it.

743
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 3: The sheer depth of shame you feel when you realize

744
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 3: it's just not going away, and you think that this

745
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 3: source of all love, who you thought was on your side,

746
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 3: actually thinks you're disgusting. Yeah, Like you learn to be

747
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 3: disgusted with yourself and to the point where, like you

748
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 3: convince yourself that it would be better for me to

749
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 3: end my sinful body than to continue on sending in

750
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 3: the world or causing other people to sin. That's going

751
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 3: to be my contribution. That's what I thought, And that

752
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 3: is so sad.

753
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, my eyes are watering right now, I just

754
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 2: thinking about it.

755
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 3: That's what I thought. And those are the thoughts that

756
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 3: nearly killed me. And then when I began to think

757
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 3: something different. You know, a good theology, you know, like

758
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 3: Jesus said, you're gonna know a tree by its fruits.

759
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 3: Good trees bear good fruit. Bad trees bear bad fruit,

760
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 3: and they cannot bear the opposite thing. And so if

761
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 3: the theology that says that marriage is only between one

762
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 3: man and one woman for forever and it's you know,

763
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 3: causing someone to kill themselves, I mean, I really think

764
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 3: you should reconsider dude, Like and because the thing is

765
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 3: I say this in the book, I say it all

766
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 3: over the place.

767
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: It's just like I know dead people.

768
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 3: I know people who did not survive in order to

769
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 3: tell their story. I know people from my Exodus days.

770
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 3: So many people who just were the most faithful people

771
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 3: in the world and just it became so dissonant within

772
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 3: themselves and they felt so bad because we can't help

773
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 3: but love who we love. Mary Oliver says, you just

774
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 3: got to let the soft animal of your body love

775
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 3: what it loves. And we wouldn't do that because of

776
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 3: somebody else's thought about God and what they thought God thought,

777
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 3: rather than going in and finding what does what do

778
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 3: what God?

779
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 2: What does God think about me?

780
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: Wow?

781
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 3: And there was a thought that finally came up as

782
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 3: I was like working on you know, myself that really

783
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 3: allowed me to get free in a bigger way, was like, okay, well,

784
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 3: like I said, fuck it, even if God will not

785
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 3: love me after this, I will love me no matter what.

786
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 3: And that is the thought that helped me survive and

787
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 3: allowed me to get through because I recognize that the

788
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 3: love that I was seeking after was not going to

789
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 3: be found in another church or another pulpit, or in

790
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 3: another or in a better theology, but into recognizing that

791
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 3: I was so good, I'm so wonderful. Yeah, and when

792
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 3: I believe something opposite to that, it does this. It

793
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 3: causes me to cry because it's not true. Yeah, I'm

794
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 3: so good and so worthy. And when I remember that,

795
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 3: when I can focus on that and just hold that

796
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 3: in my attention, the peace passeth understanding comes upon me,

797
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 3: and that to me is more real than anything I

798
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 3: did in church, you know, and like it also to

799
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 3: finally come to that record like realization allows me to

800
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 3: know that like none of it's wasted.

801
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: Yea, oh, sorry to go off, buddy. Yeah.

802
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 3: When I say that theology kills, I mean that there

803
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 3: are things that we practice that cause people to hurt

804
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 3: themselves and if not to physically take them lives, to

805
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 3: live a life so small that it's painful to exist.

806
00:44:54,160 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 3: And it does not have to be this way.

807
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: I didn't even know how to, like, I don't even

808
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 2: know how. I'm just like, dude, Yeah, That's why I'm

809
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: so serious about this too, is because it's really like

810
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 2: news to some people. Yeah, this is news to some people.

811
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: Yes, I I thought to myself again as like, obviously

812
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: this is not my story.

813
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:24,439
Speaker 2: But sure.

814
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: The way that it resonated with me was like I

815
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: in a number of ways. There were things that I'm like, Okay,

816
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: if I'm coming to this tradition, this theology, and you're saying, okay,

817
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: there is a you know, we're going to do the

818
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: depravity theology. Okay, there's a depravity in my soul. Yes,

819
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: that needs to be redeemed. I can accept that. Okay,

820
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: you know, sure, but I'm coming to that as myself, Like, Okay,

821
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: there are there are things about me that, for example,

822
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: like I mean, I come to the Cross if you

823
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: will as a black man. I don't leave the cross

824
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: not black, Like I'm still a black dude, you know

825
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: what I mean. I'm like, these are things that I

826
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 1: can't that the conversion salvation doesn't erase that I'm still

827
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: a black dude, Like is what I am?

828
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 2: You know?

829
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: And so when I would hear people speak in terms

830
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 1: of membership in this kingdom means you have to lay

831
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: everything down, and I'm like, well, put your identity in

832
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: crisis to truly erase. Yeah, you think you are, And

833
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,959
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, what do you everything? They're like, yeah,

834
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, there's no Jew or Greek male or female

835
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: And I'm like, but are you married to a female?

836
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: Like I was she still a female? I thought you

837
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: said there was no male or female. And I'm like,

838
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 1: do you hear, like what did you say like that

839
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: verse in context for a second number one? Yeah, yeah,

840
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: I'm just like, he's not talking about the obliteration. He's

841
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: talking about hierarchy. He's talking about hierarchy. Yeah, there's so

842
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: many things that have been just so abused that if

843
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 1: someone like you said, if someone sat down next to

844
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: you and was like, that's not what that shit says

845
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: at all. The nineteen forty nine thing that like holmostsexual

846
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: wasn't wasn't even in a book until nineteen forty nine. Yeah,

847
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And it's a bad translation.

848
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: You don't know what that word says.

849
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 3: But you've never read it because you've only read it

850
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 3: and badly translated English, which was translated from Latin, which

851
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 3: is not even what I'm written in.

852
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so like, yeah, it's awful. Oh my god,

853
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: you read Araonaic. That is crazy. Yeah, you know, yeah,

854
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: so the school is different. So so I say that

855
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 1: to say I resonated when I thought to myself about Okay,

856
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: so my own sexuality. I can when when fifth grade happened,

857
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: and I'm changing names for the innocent because I don't.

858
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: Know who this is.

859
00:47:55,120 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: But when sure Kelly Johnson sparked, finally sparked the boob

860
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 1: and I caught that, and I caught the side of it.

861
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened. I just something in me,

862
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: something in me with bump. And I was like, hello, twelve, Hello, hell,

863
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: that is called testosterone.

864
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: What you are having.

865
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: You don't have to pee, this is this is a normal,

866
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: this is what happens. And I was like, this isn't

867
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: and like every twelve year old boy, this is incredibly inconvenient.

868
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 2: This is very embarrassing.

869
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: I don't I wish this didn't happen all the time,

870
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: but it did so so I'm like, I didn't. I

871
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: don't know what to tell you. It's what happened. So

872
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: as I sat, as I sat across from some of

873
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: my closest friends, who finally as we became older, was like,

874
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: oh wait, I'm gay.

875
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 2: It was their experience was exactly the saying. It was like,

876
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you. Bobby walked by

877
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 2: and this happened.

878
00:48:55,160 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: I don't know It was incredibly inconvenient and very embarrassing,

879
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: but triple the embarrassment that you're experiencing because it wasn't

880
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: supposed to happen at all, you know.

881
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I remember Robbie. Yeah, ninth grade Art Foundations class,

882
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 3: let's go. I like, I remember I noticed him, But

883
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 3: I was.

884
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: Like, why why do I keep looking? Why do we

885
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 2: keep looking? Why do I keep looking?

886
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: Why do I keep And I was like, this is

887
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: what they're talking about. This is attraction. I was like, shit,

888
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: yeah right, yeah, it's really Yeah. It's like, well, this

889
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: is bad. I can't imagine I honestly cannot put myself

890
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: living in the experience you lived in and feeling that

891
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 1: like surubstantial. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you can't turn it off.

892
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,479
Speaker 1: I can't turn it off, you know what I'm saying.

893
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 1: I was thought to control it, but I can't turn

894
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: it off. No one told me to, No one told

895
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: me that, not like this, like you I'm saying. So, yeah,

896
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 1: when I started looking, don't touch. It was just like,

897
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: don't look or touch or think about it or even

898
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: like it. You're not allowed to like this. And I'm like, if, like,

899
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: how did I wouldn't be much more convenient if I didn't.

900
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, trust me and believe, like, yeah, I

901
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 3: think it's very funny when anybody thinks about sexuality, especially

902
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 3: when it comes to like as a choice, Like your

903
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 3: attractions are phenomena in some ways, there's not a there's

904
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 3: not a gene to it, like even though like there's

905
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 3: certain things that we can point to maybe, but there's

906
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: not a definitive Yeah, this is why this is.

907
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 2: And also that's not even how humanity is even defined

908
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 2: like that and that's it and that's a boring story.

909
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just like, Gene, you're like what, I'm just

910
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: like I like to think of it as like this

911
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: is just one of the like most beautiful, like especially

912
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: in humanity, we get to experience love and and and

913
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: meaning and just you know, to again Mary Oliver, let

914
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 1: the soft animal of our body loves amazing.

915
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 3: I think that's the that's God. I think that's God

916
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 3: expressing God's Self through each and every one of us.

917
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 3: God wanting to know what it is to be in

918
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 3: a body and an experience like mine. God wanting to

919
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 3: know and you know, live the world through youth. This

920
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 3: is a very process theology kind of position. That I

921
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: taken in this mouth. But I really do think that

922
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 3: when I stopped seeing like, oh, like you know, like

923
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 3: you said, you lose your identity in Christ, right, and

924
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 3: then anything that comes out that's outside of their prescription

925
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 3: is an aperation or an abomination, and you've got to

926
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 3: reel it back in, you know, or you realize, luve

927
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 3: be too gay, don't be too anything besides this, Yeah,

928
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 3: because the out that that what gets pushed out of.

929
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: That machine when you're saying is our identities in Christ.

930
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: It's like, man, this identity looks more like yours. I'm like, no,

931
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: it's just your culture. Like what you're saying is how

932
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: I want to come out and become you. And I'm like,

933
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: I'm not you, So I say you, I can never

934
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: be me from being you.

935
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 2: Want to be.

936
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, But then I'm going, I'm going what what really

937
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: like started me down? This like evolution of being like,

938
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: oh no, I'm on cabsite? Is uh you start hearing if?

939
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: When when I hear anything, I go when when someone

940
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: says a statement, whether it's a law, policy or whatever,

941
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: my first thought is, how is this going to affect

942
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: the oppressed? How do you talk to how does this

943
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: affect my own aspect black people, and how has this

944
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: affect black people forever? Right? So if I hear someone

945
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 1: talking about whatever they're talking about and it reminds me

946
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: of how you talked about black people, then I'm like, oh,

947
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: this is wrong. So so for me, it was like

948
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: what we what?

949
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 2: We love? We love the trans, we love the clear queer.

950
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 2: It's just I don't want.

951
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: Them around our children, you know, or don't make me,

952
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: don't shove it down, you know, well as long as

953
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: they stay over there. I was like, huh, it's interesting,

954
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: So you you know what I'm saying. So you don't

955
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: want your children to be friends?

956
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 2: Wow?

957
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 1: Okay, so you don't think so you think that them

958
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: asking for just equal protection under the Constitution is somehow

959
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 1: an affront to your freedoms?

960
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 2: I remember that? Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

961
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 3: Like the thing that comes to mind right now especially

962
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 3: is just like the fight for trans children having access

963
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 3: to what they need when really there's like well parents writes,

964
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 3: parents are some just like there's nothing more parents rights

965
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 3: centric than allowing a doctor and a parent and their

966
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 3: child to make it get with themselves.

967
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 2: I don't understand. I thought that's what you well.

968
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 3: That's what you wanted not to mention that gender affirming care.

969
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 3: It doesn't just extends beyond trans kids. Like, yeah, children

970
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 3: have been you know, children with vaginas and reproductive systems.

971
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 3: Girls are starting their periods sooner and sooner because who

972
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 3: knows the hell why, and some as early as third grade,

973
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 3: and so in order to stop that from happening, they

974
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 3: introduce puberty blockers until they hit you know, an appropriate weight.

975
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.

976
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 3: And that's not that allows them to be a child,

977
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 3: that allows them to really be who they are rather

978
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 3: than having to grow up more quickly. And SIS girls

979
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 3: are a higher recipient of puberty blockers than anybody else.

980
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 3: Women who start menopause early. My mother, for example, has

981
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 3: been on hormone replacement therapy since she was thirty when

982
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:33,720
Speaker 3: she got menopause super early.

983
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 2: Wow. So I'm just.

984
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 3: Like, like you're thinking about like a gender firming care.

985
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 3: It's not just about trans folks who you know, need

986
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 3: to get surgeries, although that is part of it, but

987
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 3: it's it's it's saving children's lives, it's saving CIS people's lives.

988
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I remember how you wanted you wanted us

989
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: to stay out of your personal choices and for you

990
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: to not wear a mask.

991
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 2: I know where did when? Did? Where did that?

992
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: How about you stay out of my family's business, my business,

993
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: the government out of our business. Like yeah, I thought

994
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: you wanted the government out of our business. Now you

995
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: want the government in our business. I'm confused anyway, Uh,

996
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: I want to try to like land this plane here

997
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 1: with landa some of some of the beauty that you're doing.

998
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: So I know you do these? You do these? Are

999
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 2: they counseling sessions? Are they? Yeah? So what are they? Yeah?

1000
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 1: Like tell them about the and and some if you

1001
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: can some like beautiful like success stories if you will.

1002
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. People reclaiming their their spirituality.

1003
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 3: So I am what I started doing a couple of

1004
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 3: years ago. I've been calling them spiritual recovery cohorts, Okay,

1005
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 3: And it's basically what it sounds like. Do you want

1006
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 3: to recover your spirituality after you've lost it, after you've

1007
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 3: burnt your faith to the ground and like deconstructed into oblivion. Yeah,

1008
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 3: because I really again, like it's possible to feel connected

1009
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,919
Speaker 3: to God, to love to your truest self, and you can,

1010
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 3: like it doesn't take that much. It takes a little

1011
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 3: bit of intention and willingness and so over the you

1012
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 3: know the class I'm teaching right now that begins on

1013
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 3: March fifth, by the way, So if it's not but

1014
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 3: March fifth, come hang out with us.

1015
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: It'll be out by this.

1016
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 3: Yes, But what I teach is basically like, here's how

1017
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 3: we meditate, here's how we get quiet. And also when

1018
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 3: the thoughts come into our mind, this is how we

1019
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 3: deal with this is not deal with that. This is

1020
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 3: how we work with them when our big feelings start

1021
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 3: coming up. This is how we work with them when

1022
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 3: our inner child needs attention. This is how we love

1023
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 3: them when our body is feeling pain. This is how

1024
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 3: we help ourselves. And I don't tell people anything that

1025
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 3: they have to believe. I tell them, don't believe anything

1026
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 3: I tell you either, question everything, test everything to see

1027
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 3: if it's true. And what I'm telling people to test them,

1028
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 3: just like if you give yourself as little as five

1029
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 3: minutes a day, you can feel so connected to yourself

1030
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 3: and your life can change in a beautiful direction. And

1031
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 3: by change, I mean you can feel better. Yeah, that's

1032
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 3: like the baseline I keep. What I tell people is

1033
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 3: like your spiritual practice, if you just make it really

1034
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 3: simple this is about me feeling good because I tell

1035
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 3: people I don't do it because I'm holy. I do

1036
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 3: it because I'm the most stressed out motherfucker I know.

1037
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 3: And if I'm not connected to myself, to source to love,

1038
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to be a bitch. And I say that

1039
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 3: in like, you know, the exact thing. I'm mean, kind

1040
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 3: of mean to people and so like. But again when

1041
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 3: i'm but when I am connected, like you know, I

1042
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,959
Speaker 3: can cry about how beautiful and wonderful I feel because

1043
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 3: I'm connected to that source. It's like, you know, you

1044
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 3: can strip all the esoterism out of it. You don't

1045
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 3: have to believe in quote unquote God to be a

1046
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 3: spiritual person.

1047
00:57:59,040 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: You know.

1048
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 3: Again, it's like, I don't care what you call it.

1049
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 3: You're just like I want you to be open to

1050
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 3: the possibility that maybe there is great love for you here.

1051
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 3: That's my favorite line is there is great love for

1052
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 3: you here. And what I love about the work, like

1053
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 3: I've worked with everyone from like pastors to therapists and

1054
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 3: chaplains and then everyday people who are just like trying

1055
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 3: to like figure out how to create a spiritual life

1056
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 3: on purpose. Yeah, And what I love is like a

1057
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 3: few highlights are like people getting rid of the idea

1058
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 3: of being afraid of hell. I was like, I don't

1059
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 3: believe in hell, but I'm sure scared I'm going there.

1060
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 3: That's dead and I'm dead ass. It's like yeah, and

1061
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 3: it's like like we all laugh at it, but also

1062
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 3: it's just like, when I really think about it, I'm

1063
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 3: afraid of separation from God.

1064
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 2: Even now.

1065
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, well would you like to Yeah, it's valid,

1066
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, I fel like this is the

1067
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:54,439
Speaker 1: center of all creation and my being and I don't

1068
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: want to be separated. Yeah, And it's like, oh, like

1069
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: you when you realize that heaven is the realization that

1070
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 1: you never left grace like you've always been. It's just

1071
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: that our awareness to Love's presence gets smucked up by everything,

1072
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: and so like, you know, being able to see people

1073
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: like move from a place of like feeling very cut off,

1074
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: feeling like I cannot God is unsafe, spirituality is not

1075
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: for me anymore, to learning how to connect with their

1076
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: heart again and learning and like being able to say, like,

1077
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: even on my worst days, I'm worthy of love and

1078
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 1: feeling good and even on my best days, I'm not

1079
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 1: anymore holy.

1080
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 2: I'm just more connected.

1081
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 3: It's it's people realizing that so much of their experience

1082
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 3: is in their control and they have so much more

1083
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 3: power than they know. And it's like, what would it

1084
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 3: be like for you to connect with love every single

1085
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 3: day and to see that, like, you know, to see

1086
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 3: like queer people who have been burned by religion reclaim

1087
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 3: a spirituality for themselves. Damn is incredible to like really

1088
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 3: like people like, sorry, the way I put it, it is

1089
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 3: just like, oh, you met you finally met the Christ

1090
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 3: because you looked in the mirror, bitch and you and

1091
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 3: you loved what you saw. Congratulations. This is salvation, dude.

1092
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 3: And it's so much more simple than we have been

1093
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 3: led to believe. And I'm just so very passionate about

1094
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 3: individuals and you know, yeah, individuals finding this out for

1095
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 3: themselves because like, imagine what we could do with all

1096
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 3: of us. Yeah, we're no longer shit talking ourselves. We're

1097
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 3: no longer trying to acquiesce to like a white version

1098
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:55,439
Speaker 3: of success or a patriarchal version of relationships or an

1099
01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 3: institutional version of religion. I'm so I'm so passionate people

1100
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 3: having a relationship with God. Yeah, and it's oh it's

1101
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 3: right here, man, And that's like being able to like

1102
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 3: teach people how to do that. It's the greatest thing

1103
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 3: I get to do with my time, the greatest thing

1104
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 3: I've ever done. And like, yeah, I hope I do

1105
01:01:22,160 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 3: it for the rest of my life.

1106
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 2: I feel like I just had a session. Man, this.

1107
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: I cannot thank you enough just for what you're putting

1108
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: in the world and for coming.

1109
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: Into our little feed here.

1110
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: Man. These like, like I said, these like just these

1111
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: os oases of amazing shit happening, even in spaces that

1112
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: sound and feel terrible, that there are people out here

1113
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 1: really making the world better.

1114
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1115
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 1: For doing this pod and just for doing doing it,

1116
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, like you knew right, yeah, you know he

1117
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,959
Speaker 1: was running around the world. Yeah, he was running around

1118
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 1: the world trying to be a missionary little did you know.

1119
01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 3: You know what's funny is like so many people have

1120
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 3: been prophising, oh, you're going to be a pastor. You're

1121
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 3: just set, you're setting the seeds for when you're going to.

1122
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 2: Be a pastor.

1123
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 3: And I was like, I'm not going to be a

1124
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 3: pastor because in my head, I think because I'm gay

1125
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 3: and I'm eventually going to I'm allowed, not allowed to

1126
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 3: do that, And in some ways I don't think.

1127
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: They were wrong, because you are. I.

1128
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 3: When I think about the role of what a pastor

1129
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 3: should be, you know, you know from from my from

1130
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 3: what I'm doing, it's like I'm shepherding people through a

1131
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 3: specific season of their life to get them to to

1132
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 3: get them going on their own path. I have a

1133
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 3: specific I work with people for a specific time in

1134
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 3: their life, and I get them back on their path.

1135
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:38,959
Speaker 2: That's my job.

1136
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:45,520
Speaker 3: And I'm honored. Thank you for having me, Thank you

1137
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 3: for being here. I also I love your you know,

1138
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 3: I love your work. I think you are such a

1139
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,479
Speaker 3: stational artist. I can't wait to come to a dance

1140
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 3: party in La over the summer. I miss them every time,

1141
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 3: and I'm just like, I need.

1142
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 2: Man, you have to need to. You're gonna get you

1143
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 2: a little little little long beach.

1144
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 1: Bull out here, you know, and from your lips to

1145
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: goddess ears, listen, let me tell you that they there,

1146
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 1: we got them, they there.

1147
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 2: Let's be there for you. Yep. I'll wear my I'll

1148
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 2: wear my I'll wear my shortest shorts and my I

1149
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 2: was like man man Sheldon Shuldon thighs. You know what

1150
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 2: I mean. Man's that's the thing.

1151
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: It's just like I know, like, what's the best assets

1152
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 1: on me are? And it's you gotta know what you

1153
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: come with.

1154
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 3: It's the it's these two juicy lips and these two

1155
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 3: tree trunk thighs. Hallelujah, come on now, fearfully and wonderfully made.

1156
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 2: So please give them your your at mentions.

1157
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: The website all that so they could grab these books.

1158
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 3: Yes, you can follow me across the internet at the

1159
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 3: Kevin Garcia. That's th h E Kevin Garcia. My website

1160
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 3: is the Kevin Garcia. You can get my new book

1161
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 3: called what Makes You Bloom, cultivating a practice for connecting

1162
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 3: with your defined self. Whether you know find books, it's

1163
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 3: called please try to buy from like bookshop dot org

1164
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 3: if you could. My first book is called Bad Theology Kills.

1165
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 3: Everything's available on my website. And if you're listening to

1166
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 3: this before March fifth, the Spiritual Renaissance Cohort for Spring

1167
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four starts March five. It's going to be

1168
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 3: a badass time. I'm also opening I have spots open

1169
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 3: for one to one coaching available. It's all the website

1170
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and please be sure to subscribe share

1171
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 3: Hood Politics everywhere. Please please rate us in the Apple

1172
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 3: Podcast Store and on Spotify because it seriously helps with

1173
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 3: getting our ratings up. And you hear props say that

1174
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 3: every single week probably and do you do it? No,

1175
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 3: because you're a jerk.

1176
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: But you're going to do it now because I'm guilting

1177
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: you because I'm a puritan. Let's go on on that note.

1178
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 2: We'll see y'all next week.

1179
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: WHOA All right, now, don't you hit stop on this pod?

1180
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: You better listen to these credits. I need you to

1181
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: finish this thing so I can get the download numbers. Okay,

1182
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 1: so don't stop it yet, but listen. This was recorded

1183
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: in East Lost, boil Heights by your boy Propaganda. Tap

1184
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: in with me at prop hip hop dot com. If

1185
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: you're in the Coldbrew coffee we got terraform Coldbrew. You

1186
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 1: can go there dot com and use promo code Hood

1187
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 1: get twenty percent off get yourself some coffee. This was mixed, edited,

1188
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 1: and mastered by your boy Matt Alsowski killing the Beast

1189
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: Softly check out his website Matdowsowski dot com.

1190
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 2: I'm a spell it for you because I know M.

1191
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: A T T O S O W s ki dot

1192
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: com dot com. He got more music and stuff like

1193
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 1: that on there, so gonna check out the heat. Politics

1194
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: is a member of cool Zone Media, Executive produced by

1195
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: Sophie Lichterman, part of the iHeartMedia podcast network. Your theme

1196
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: music and scoring is also by the one and overly

1197
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: mattow Sowski. Still killing the beat softly, so listen. Don't

1198
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 1: let nobody lie to you. If you understand urban living,

1199
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: you understand politics.

1200
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 2: These people is not smarter than you.

1201
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 1: We'll see y'all next week, oh Man