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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abuse of

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Speaker 2: power that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 1: Shoot us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived. To you, I never.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 2: believe and manipulation from two rabbits who actually experienced it.

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Speaker 3: I'm Lolo Blanc.

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Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Not bunnies, rabbits, not bunnies. My brain wants to say,

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Speaker 2: not rabbits, but no, yes rabbits, Yes to rabbits.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Today, our guest is Crystal Hefner, former Playboy playmate Hugh

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Speaker 2: Hefner's widow and author of new book Only Say Good Things,

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Speaker 2: Survive Playboy and Finding Myself, which is great. We're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about how she ended up going to the

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Speaker 2: Playboy Mansion for the first time and getting invited by

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Speaker 2: Hef to stay. How exciting it all was at first,

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Speaker 2: but how over time that excitement turned into a series

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Speaker 2: of repetitive rituals week after week that were designed to

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Speaker 2: please Hef and no one else.

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Speaker 1: She'll tell us about her tightly controlled lifestyle and nightly curfew,

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Speaker 1: how she felt about filming Girls next Door, how she

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Speaker 1: left for a while, and what brought her back marrying Heff,

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Speaker 1: and what it was like dealing with his death and

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Speaker 1: the complicated feelings that came along with it.

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Speaker 2: Before we hop in get it, Oh god, get it

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Speaker 2: with crystals. Oh my god, I'm tired. I kind of

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Speaker 2: just want to know. I mean, normally we would do

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Speaker 2: our cultiest thing of the week. I kind of just

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Speaker 2: want to know what Playboy meant to you growing up?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I thought it was so cool. I

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Speaker 1: loved my friend's dads and they all had it hidden,

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Speaker 1: you know, not all of them, but we'd find it

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Speaker 1: head in and I just I thought my friend's dads

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Speaker 1: were cool, and I thought it was cool. That's so steet.

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Speaker 5: I don't know, Okay, number one, maybe that's creepy, but

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Speaker 5: like I've always read like the comics and like Carl Hyason,

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Speaker 5: novels and like just had a lot in common with

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Speaker 5: like middle aged men in a non impervy way.

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Speaker 1: I swear to.

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Speaker 3: God, I can't relate.

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Speaker 2: I guess I left Garfield and Calvin and Hobbes. I

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Speaker 2: don't know that those were middle aged men.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what I don't know. I don't know funny.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you were living a very sheltered lifestyle, so

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Speaker 2: I can imagine unusual one things would appeal to you.

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Speaker 1: When I went over to other people's houses, I just

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Speaker 1: thought it was if adults liked it. If adults that

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Speaker 1: I respected and loved liked it, it was probably cool.

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Speaker 1: And I think in a lot of cults, people have

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Speaker 1: to go through so much grooming and hoops and things

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Speaker 1: to make them go along with it, and society kind

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Speaker 1: of just slid. Hugh Hefner's antics right under the door

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Speaker 1: put it in a pretty package, and I was sold. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I would say my relationship was somewhat different

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Speaker 2: because I was Mormon, so it felt really like sinful Playboy.

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Speaker 2: If I did see anything Playboy related at a friend's house,

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Speaker 2: I'd be like sinner, you know, yeah, same, But I.

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Speaker 1: Thought it was evil. But if I went to a

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Speaker 1: tanning bed, I'd put the bunny on me, you know, like.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I think I thought it was like

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Speaker 2: sinful in a cool way. Yeah, I mean not quite demonic,

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Speaker 2: but yes, like like somewhat evil. Like if I looked

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Speaker 2: at Playboy stuff, then like I would wake up and

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Speaker 2: there'd be a demon at the foot of my bed

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Speaker 2: staring at me.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: No, at just because I remember a story that was

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Speaker 2: told where it'd be like I looked at porn then

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Speaker 2: that night I woke up and a.

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Speaker 3: Demon was looking at me.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it was just my dad, But I

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Speaker 2: could be wrong.

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Speaker 1: Maybe how so much dad trauma with those Playboy stuff?

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's fine. The only consequence that really had

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Speaker 2: was what we've talked about in the past, which is that,

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Speaker 2: like even now, sometimes I'll still wake up and think

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Speaker 2: a demon's gonna look at me, so I will hide

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Speaker 2: my face at night. But I understand it to be

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Speaker 2: sleep paralysis. But anyway, oh wow, Yeah, But that said

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Speaker 2: Hugh Hefner. He's just such an icon in the culture.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there was no one ever questioned whether he

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Speaker 2: was cool. But that's because we lived in a historically

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Speaker 2: extremely sexist society. That's only in the past like five

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Speaker 2: years coming to terms with right some of that. Yeah, So, like,

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Speaker 2: of course Hugh Hefner was lauded and worshiped because, yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Thought he was like the most progressive feminist dude in

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Speaker 1: all the land, and Crystal really lays bare what that

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Speaker 1: actually looked like.

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Speaker 2: The idea of Hugh Hefner being a feminist is hilarious.

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Speaker 1: I remember him being the voice of like sexuality, well,

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Speaker 1: free women. He had a very un racist take on

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Speaker 1: things according to himself and his like sure, his you

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Speaker 1: know magazine, and so it was always applauded as being

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Speaker 1: progressive around me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting how frequently, like I remember in episode with

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Speaker 2: Diane Lake, the former Manson Girls, she and Deborah, her publisher,

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Speaker 2: they were talking about how that was sort of marketed

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Speaker 2: to them at the time as well, in the sixties

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Speaker 2: it was like free love, it's feminist, it's open minded,

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Speaker 2: and then meanwhile, all of these women and girls were

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Speaker 2: getting completely exploited because it's like if you weren't falling

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Speaker 2: in line with this due way of being, then you're

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Speaker 2: doing something wrong.

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Speaker 1: So you have to you know, Yeah, Crystal talks about

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Speaker 1: how on I think it was Sundays, they'd have to

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Speaker 1: go amusing quotations, play like by the pool, you know,

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Speaker 1: and just pretend to be like.

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Speaker 3: Aha, I love hula hooping.

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Speaker 1: Like that's fun. I think we talk about it in

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Speaker 1: the episode like that's maybe fun once, but as an

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Speaker 1: exactly ritual it becomes really strange and not fun.

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Speaker 2: Well, because sexuality should never be about the performance, and

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Speaker 2: fun should never be about the performance. It shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: about how people perceive you. It should be about how

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Speaker 2: you feel and what you're experiencing. And if what you

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Speaker 2: feel is that you enjoy being observed, that's totally fine.

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Speaker 2: But if that's the main thing, then that isn't really

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Speaker 2: sexual freedom, is it? If it's just for the purpose

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Speaker 2: of pleasing others?

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Speaker 1: Ask yourself, Lola, is it no listeners? Ask yourself? Listeners?

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Speaker 2: No, I like, I'm gonna stick.

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Speaker 3: With what I said.

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Speaker 1: It's so late, you guys. I really hope this makes

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Speaker 1: any sense, because honestly, this interview is one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite ever and Crystal's just such a cool person, and

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Speaker 1: this book is gonna be huge as it should be.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think I it already is from what

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing, but it's it makes sense. It's really really good.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk to her now.

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Speaker 3: Shall we.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Crystal Hefner to trust me.

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Speaker 6: Thank you for having me excited.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being here.

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Speaker 3: We are obsessed with your book.

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Speaker 6: Thank you for reading it. I feel honored I've read it.

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Speaker 2: I was transfixed to the entire time, and your voice

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Speaker 2: is so relatable. We will talk about all the reasons

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Speaker 2: why and so not relatable in one way but then

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Speaker 2: so relatable in so many other ways. But before we

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Speaker 2: kind of get into the Playboy era, do you want

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Speaker 2: to just tell us about what your life was like

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Speaker 2: before that fateful night? Like, what were you doing?

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Speaker 6: I was living in San Diego.

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Speaker 3: My dad passed away when I was young, so it

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Speaker 3: was just my mom and I and I was in

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Speaker 3: college studying psychology at San Diego State. On the side,

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Speaker 3: I was doing some modeling because it made good money,

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Speaker 3: and a friend asked if I wanted to submit a

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Speaker 3: photo to go to a party at the Playboy mansion.

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Speaker 6: I didn't think i'd ever get picked.

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Speaker 3: I was so insecure, but I submitted my photo and

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Speaker 3: went up.

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Speaker 6: To the party.

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Speaker 2: The rest so your dream was to be a model.

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Speaker 3: Not really, I think I wanted to be a psychologist.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I had so many of my own

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Speaker 3: problems at that time. I just thought, I don't know

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Speaker 3: how I can help other people when I need to

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Speaker 3: get my own mind right. But the modeling stuff really

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Speaker 3: just it was like extra money. And yeah, Comic Con

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Speaker 3: was in San Diego, so I would work at Comic

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Speaker 3: Con and dress up with like g I Jane, and

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Speaker 3: it's like six hundred and fifty dollars for a young girl,

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Speaker 3: Like that's a lot of money totally, So I kind

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Speaker 3: of got into.

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Speaker 6: It that way. And yeah, I guess I was open

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Speaker 6: for like anything. I didn't really know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, that's fair.

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Speaker 2: In that similar era to you, I remember I was

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Speaker 2: also just doing the most random fucking modeling gigs, like

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Speaker 2: just because that I was broken and you need money,

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Speaker 2: so yes, you know, you just like go to some

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Speaker 2: weird photographer's house who's.

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Speaker 3: Like not professor. You had really weird photographers.

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Speaker 2: I've had some really weird, yeah, weird photographers, and also

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Speaker 2: weird events where you just get paid to like be

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Speaker 2: at the event and like be hot at the event.

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Speaker 2: Stuff like that it was definitely was doing a lot

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Speaker 2: of that in that same time period.

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Speaker 1: I was just going to say, I remember that summer

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Speaker 1: I was a Budweiser girl where I just went around

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Speaker 1: on August Bush's boat and founded out things. And I

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Speaker 1: asked me if I.

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Speaker 3: Remember I get those jobs. Yeah, yeah, I was doing

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Speaker 3: like bud.

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Speaker 2: Light Yeah, yeah, I was passing on a cigarettes yeah yeah.

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Speaker 6: Passing cigarettes.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You you had to do it, you had to do

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Speaker 1: And some of it was really weird.

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Speaker 2: Some of it was really weird. I mean I applied

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Speaker 2: for like I was so broken at one point I

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Speaker 2: was applying for like weird foot parties and stuff. But

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Speaker 2: that's a different thing.

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Speaker 1: However, I want to.

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Speaker 2: Go I had, I won't se I have friends who've

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Speaker 2: been and it sounds very funny anyway, So this is

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Speaker 2: the context.

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Speaker 3: You just you're like, okay, I'll apply.

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Speaker 2: I'm never going to get in, and then you get

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Speaker 2: the email saying that you actually are getting in to

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Speaker 2: this party Halloween night two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Megan, do you have a tidbit you want to

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Speaker 3: tell us about the same parties?

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Speaker 1: So I was supposed to go to this exact same party,

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Speaker 1: and I had for lack of a better words, like

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Speaker 1: explosive diarrhea that night and I missed it. I laid

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Speaker 1: in bed and I watched Arrested Development all night long.

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Speaker 1: But I had done the like college girl. I had

225
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Speaker 1: done one of their things when I was in college.

226
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Speaker 1: And so you get to go to the mansion, and

227
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Speaker 1: I was going to go, and I didn't and I

228
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Speaker 1: used a fake name. But all of my boyfriends have

229
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Speaker 1: been able to find my picture and somehow, but I

230
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Speaker 1: did not end up going. But this is the party

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Speaker 1: you went to, and I just find it so funny.

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Speaker 1: That is a weird coincidence.

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Speaker 6: Really is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to like go to the UCLA parking lot.

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Speaker 1: It's so specific, it's just so God.

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Speaker 3: You're with all these girls.

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Speaker 1: The bus drivers like there's not another buzz coming, You're

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Speaker 1: not going to the party. You're like, damn it. And

239
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Speaker 1: then your friend, who is a real firecracker, she's hilarious

240
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Speaker 1: because like we're staying and a bus comes and actually

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Speaker 1: takes you there, so shockingly you end up at the party.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just like struck by you.

243
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Speaker 2: And you point this out in your book, but like

244
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Speaker 2: how small the moment is that changed the entire course

245
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Speaker 2: of your life.

246
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Speaker 1: It's weird, Like tell us about them.

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Speaker 3: It is weird that one small thing can change the

248
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Speaker 3: rest of your life forever. I do remember going over

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Speaker 3: to HEF and the group he was with in the cabana,

250
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Speaker 3: and you know, it's all roped off, like the velvet ropes,

251
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Speaker 3: the stanchions, and it's like the animal enclosure I talk

252
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Speaker 3: about in the book, like they're all in there, and

253
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Speaker 3: then I'm out here and all of a sudden, like

254
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Speaker 3: HEF's gaze fell on me and he's asking me to

255
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Speaker 3: come in, and security guards are bringing me in, and like, wow,

256
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Speaker 3: now I'm in the animal enclosure like with the animals,

257
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Speaker 3: Like what do I do? You don't think about like, oh,

258
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Speaker 3: now I'm on the other side and now I'm actually

259
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Speaker 3: in here. It was weird and it was kind of

260
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Speaker 3: out of body for sure. Was it exciting?

261
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Speaker 2: I mean I can imagine myself, especially at that eighty

262
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Speaker 2: were twenty one, yright me at twenty one, I'd be like,

263
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Speaker 2: oh my god, everyone's looking at me, like I'd be

264
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Speaker 2: very excited.

265
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Speaker 3: It would be very exciting. Yeah, I got a little

266
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Speaker 3: bit of imposter syndrome, so like why me? And but

267
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Speaker 3: he was really nice, and yeah, it was definitely an

268
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Speaker 3: out of body experience, but he made me feel comfortable. He's,

269
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Speaker 3: you know, immediately was magnetic and charming. Asked me what

270
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Speaker 3: I did, and I'm like, oh no, like I'm still

271
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Speaker 3: in school, but really that's what hef wanted, you know,

272
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Speaker 3: the younger the better. So I told him I was

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Speaker 3: studying psychology at San Diego State. He said he studied

274
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Speaker 3: psychology at the University of Illinois, and that's kind of

275
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Speaker 3: how it started.

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Speaker 6: And he invited me to stay for the weekend.

277
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Speaker 3: And after the weekend, I went back to San Diego,

278
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Speaker 3: thinking like, how do I move forward with my life

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Speaker 3: after this this experience, And he called me Monday evening,

280
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Speaker 3: I think, and asked me to move in.

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Speaker 6: So all happened very fast.

282
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Speaker 2: And he was eighty one, right, Yes, it's so weird

283
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,080
Speaker 2: because I was twenty one he was eighty one. So

284
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Speaker 2: because you kind of described that first night at the mansion,

285
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Speaker 2: and there's like a sex ritual that he kind of

286
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Speaker 2: just does, which you will you later discovers just how

287
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,440
Speaker 2: it always goes like the exact same way every time, right, yes,

288
00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,960
Speaker 2: which is like multiple girls. You don't have to get

289
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Speaker 2: into any goory details, but like he chooses his girls

290
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Speaker 2: for the night, right.

291
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and everyone you know, pretends they're into each

292
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,160
Speaker 3: other whatever, and then it's it's all just a show

293
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Speaker 3: for half. Basically sounds like the worst sex.

294
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Speaker 1: I've ever because you have ever given you an orgasm?

295
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Speaker 3: No, no, no, crazy, I mean it's it's a great

296
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:26,680
Speaker 3: that's a great question because it was all for him.

297
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Speaker 2: Everything like was just performance, performance, performance to make me

298
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Speaker 2: feel good, right, yeah.

299
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Speaker 3: And in the beginning you're like, oh, this is okay,

300
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Speaker 3: this is what this person likes.

301
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Speaker 6: They're kind of like quirky and whatever.

302
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,760
Speaker 3: But over time, especially now, I'm like, oh, it's very

303
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,720
Speaker 3: narcissistic to not even care about how somebody else feels.

304
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Speaker 2: Right, So there are different girls who live in the

305
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,480
Speaker 2: house at that point, how many rooms like five rooms

306
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:50,240
Speaker 2: of girls or something?

307
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,719
Speaker 3: I thing six bedrooms total and in the house, and

308
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,560
Speaker 3: then there was a guesthouse that had four, and then

309
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Speaker 3: there was a playmatehouse across.

310
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Speaker 2: The oh wow, oh yeah a lot okay, And so

311
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Speaker 2: you didn't really have to do anything special to be

312
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 2: invited to live there, right, It would just be kind

313
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:04,079
Speaker 2: of like he's like.

314
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Speaker 1: I like that one look perfect.

315
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Speaker 3: Well, look look yes, but like I mean you have yeah,

316
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,680
Speaker 3: you have to look how he wants his girls to look.

317
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Speaker 1: And have to be the right amount of like you're.

318
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Speaker 3: So great half exactly please. Yeah, oh wow, this person

319
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 3: doing exactly what what I want them to do. He

320
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,640
Speaker 3: saw it as, oh, they must really like me if

321
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,680
Speaker 3: if you know, they're fawning all over him or liking

322
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,200
Speaker 3: all the same things he likes, or talking about him

323
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,280
Speaker 3: only like he he liked people that were all about him.

324
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Speaker 2: Yeah, what did you feel when he invited you?

325
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Speaker 1: What was.

326
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Speaker 6: I at first?

327
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,600
Speaker 3: I thought when I first went there, it was like

328
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 3: you know, Charlie in the chocolate factory, Willie Wonka. I'm like, wow,

329
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 3: ornate carved wood and have had pajamas in every color.

330
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Speaker 8: You know.

331
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Speaker 3: I didn't come from money at all, so seeing like

332
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,840
Speaker 3: money and then some was was so insane and crazy.

333
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,720
Speaker 3: And if this man who is magnetic and powerful and

334
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,080
Speaker 3: all these different celebrities and this this whole thing was

335
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 3: just this big presence, and I wanted to still be

336
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:11,560
Speaker 3: a part of.

337
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 6: It because it was still very alluring in the beginning.

338
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you had like there were living chefs that

339
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:19,920
Speaker 2: would make whatever you ordered.

340
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,360
Speaker 1: I was jealous of that part. You just take up

341
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,800
Speaker 1: your phone and you say I want this, and then

342
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,960
Speaker 1: it's there and at the beginning, and we see this

343
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,480
Speaker 1: in so many cults. It's it's like perfect almost, you

344
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:32,040
Speaker 1: know what I mean.

345
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,200
Speaker 3: It's like this like a dream. It's like a dream world.

346
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,720
Speaker 1: And you're being love bombed and you're being like, there's

347
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 1: something interesting about the pajamas, which is that you're told

348
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 1: they're from Italy and like the most expensive whatever thing,

349
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 1: and then you find out they're made in downtown LA.

350
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Speaker 1: And there's just all these little interesting things where like

351
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,320
Speaker 1: the mansion is its exquisite on the surface, but like

352
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 1: if you scratch a little bit, there's like leaks everywhere,

353
00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,960
Speaker 1: there's mold. As we come to find out, like it's

354
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:06,280
Speaker 1: this weird outward beauty that's like rotting a little bit.

355
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,400
Speaker 1: And the inside, Yeah.

356
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,760
Speaker 3: It's like the golden apple. It's like the rotten inside that.

357
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a great it's like that for sure.

358
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,560
Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit about some of the

359
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,680
Speaker 2: repeating rituals, the things you guys did every single week,

360
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 2: like it was just the same thing.

361
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you describe it as like a cruise ship.

362
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 3: It was definitely a cruise ship. Itinerary for sure. It

363
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 3: was weird and awkward.

364
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:44,760
Speaker 6: I don't know why.

365
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,600
Speaker 3: At first, I just thought it was normal. Oh, he

366
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,920
Speaker 3: likes schedule, routine, and I don't know, I.

367
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:50,800
Speaker 6: Just brush everything off.

368
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 3: That Monday was manly night, and so all the men

369
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,960
Speaker 3: would get together. Sometimes they would discuss the newest issue

370
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 3: of Playboy and go through judge the women, and then

371
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,880
Speaker 3: they would pick a movie to watch. That was kind

372
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,560
Speaker 3: of like my weekend. Monday, I didn't have to be

373
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,080
Speaker 3: home until like eight thirty or nineth third.

374
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you had a curk now, yeah.

375
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I'm like Monday, yes, because they would watch

376
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 6: the movie. It wouldn't end until then.

377
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,400
Speaker 3: Tuesday we played cards with the girls or dominoes, and

378
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,960
Speaker 3: I would invite a few girls, and I would pick

379
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,680
Speaker 3: girls that were actually my friends or try to because

380
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,960
Speaker 3: every day someone was trying to replace me, so that

381
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,480
Speaker 3: was hard. Wednesday was Gin Rummy with the guys, So

382
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 3: that was also my week.

383
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,400
Speaker 6: Like my weekend, I'd now have to be home till

384
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 6: about eight thirty.

385
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,880
Speaker 3: Thursday was movie Night, Friday, the movie Night, Saturday Night,

386
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,359
Speaker 3: Movie Night, Sunday, Movie Night, Thursday, Friday, Saturday Sunday or Thursday, Friday, Saturday,

387
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,119
Speaker 3: we're usually older movies, and Sunday was a new movie

388
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,400
Speaker 3: from the theaters. And at first I'm like, oh wow,

389
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 3: we get to watch movies from the theater.

390
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:52,520
Speaker 6: That's so cool.

391
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 3: But over time I'm like, Okay, I have to be home.

392
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 3: It started at six o'clock, so you have to be

393
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,480
Speaker 3: there with half at six for the buffet thing, and

394
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,200
Speaker 3: then the movies at six thirty. And for ten years

395
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 3: I was watching so many movies.

396
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,639
Speaker 2: I mean, like, I love movies, but damn.

397
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,920
Speaker 3: He was severely a gorophobic that I found later. It's

398
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 3: so interesting he can hide it well. When you have

399
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,600
Speaker 3: all that money and power and a massive mansion, the

400
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 3: thing like hide it.

401
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,160
Speaker 1: Like when we compare him to normal cult leaders, most

402
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 1: of them don't have any money. So he had all

403
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 1: this money and glory and prestige. I mean, he was

404
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,959
Speaker 1: one of the most famous men in the world, and

405
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 1: so he was able. You said at one point, I

406
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 1: think he had seventy staff members.

407
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:36,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean he.

408
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,679
Speaker 1: Just made his world exactly what he wanted it to

409
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 1: be in a way I've never seen before. Maybe Michael

410
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,000
Speaker 1: Jackson The Rise. Yeah, nobody has the kind of money

411
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 1: to make a cult about themselves, which that much.

412
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,479
Speaker 2: Live in staff and everything you would ever need, except

413
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 2: not everything you would ever need, because you need variety generally.

414
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, terusting.

415
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 3: And then when you think of all the staff, you think, okay, like,

416
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 3: these are people that work here and they need their

417
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,399
Speaker 3: you know, there's their job and make their money. But

418
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 3: it was in the you know, it's like mister Hefner

419
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 3: the boss. Even if what he said was wrong or

420
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 3: weird or someone should challenge it, they never did.

421
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,720
Speaker 6: So it was they just all fed into this machine.

422
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 6: It was really weird.

423
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:23,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

424
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 2: Money already creates a dynamic where people don't want to

425
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 2: question you. But then when you're also one of the

426
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 2: most famous people alive who's like incredibly powerful, like you'd

427
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 2: be hard pressed to find people who question that person. Yes,

428
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 2: even on a much smaller scale, the like powerful select

429
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 2: or famous people I've dated, like I see that around them.

430
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,240
Speaker 2: It would be on like that on speed with Hugheifnari can't.

431
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're seeing that like your dad's generation. I

432
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 1: think it was your stepdad for a minute, you know,

433
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 1: his playboy is like precious up in his library and

434
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 1: you're seeing all these people. Throughout your entire childhood, you

435
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,400
Speaker 1: never feel like you're enough. Who does? But you really

436
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,639
Speaker 1: struggled with that, which we did as well. Lola tried

437
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,439
Speaker 1: to sacrifice herself to the devil to make friends.

438
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 2: I just said a prayer to the devil, let's be going.

439
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,879
Speaker 1: But like there's the speaking of hope and perfection and

440
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 1: now suddenly you're in it, and I can see how

441
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: it would be so seductive, and you are losing yourself technically,

442
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,360
Speaker 1: but it's like, but I'm replacing myself with what everybody

443
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:22,360
Speaker 1: else finds perfect.

444
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 2: Now I am a part of this like famous, glamorous, lavish, incredible,

445
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 2: perfect lifestyle. I totally get the appeal in every way.

446
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, feeling like I belong, like I belong somewhere.

447
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 2: Well, especially because you made it to like the first what's.

448
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 3: The term for your position for your friend, first wife?

449
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 1: But first girlfriend and first wife yeah main girlfriend.

450
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 6: Main yeah yes, so yeah yeah, and then wife.

451
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 3: But I think I made it there because I made

452
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 3: myself like malleable and you know, everything he wanted.

453
00:20:59,359 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

454
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 2: I remember that feeling when I was young and dating

455
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 2: people who are more powerful than me, of like, oh,

456
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 2: whatever he wants, I'm just here to nod and smile

457
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 2: and like let him tell me stories and let you know,

458
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 2: like you feel like you're supposed to do that because

459
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 2: I mean, they have the status, they have the power,

460
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 2: they must know more whatever, they can provide these things

461
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 2: for you. In addition to him never leaving the house

462
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 2: unless he was getting paid to leave the house.

463
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: Or be seen with all of his bevy of babies, Yeah.

464
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,360
Speaker 2: You'd go out to restaurants and he would literally eat

465
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 2: the same thing from home.

466
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 6: Yes, right, that's weird. Right.

467
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 3: It is so weird is.

468
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,440
Speaker 1: That he would have the cooks make him pork and

469
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 1: mashed potatoes and packet and a little thing and then

470
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,160
Speaker 1: take it to the restaurant. That's what he ate every night.

471
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 1: He had the craziest routine. What else did he do

472
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: every even the sex? Can we talk a little bit

473
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: more about that. So this first night at the mansion,

474
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 1: he says, let's go upstairs. Yeah, and you're like, okay,

475
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 1: do you know immediately, Oh, I'm having sex with you,

476
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: Haffner tonight, Like maybe we're gonna, like I don't know,

477
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: make out or something.

478
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

479
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 4: Next I definitely thought that's what might be happening, right, Yeah, Okay,

480
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 4: so you're like all led up the stairs and they're

481
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 4: taking pictures like somebody's always taking pictures, just so creepy bizarre.

482
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 6: Yeah.

483
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: So like you're like, oh, they're like taking pictures basically

484
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: up my skirt. Okay. So you so you get to

485
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 1: his bedroom and then there's this ritual that he does

486
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: every time. And I didn't understand from the book, like

487
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: how because he would take his little pill, Like how

488
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 1: many how many nights a week was sex expected?

489
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 3: After a bit of time, it was only about one

490
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 3: one night a week.

491
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 6: Oh okay, which is great.

492
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was pretty frequent in the beginning. I see, Yeah,

493
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 3: he did have the pill. I honestly like just thinking

494
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 3: about that, just being next to him and watching him

495
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 3: like on wrath of a piece of tissue that has

496
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 3: a pill and just pop it in, and something.

497
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 2: About the tissue makes it so much more gross.

498
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 7: I want to knock it out of his hands.

499
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: You take it, like fuck you.

500
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: We were dying at what you wrote about how you

501
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 2: would be grateful when other girls would join because they

502
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: would like I was like, I.

503
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 1: Want to run like Amber, like your girlfriend Amber just

504
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: like taking one for the team, joining you upstairs, like

505
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 1: she's a true team players, like God bless her. But

506
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: so okay, you get upstairs to his bedroom, it's as bad.

507
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: There's four screens, yeah, playing porn, old porn, old porn,

508
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: old porn. It's weird, and he like unlocks a little

509
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: door like and like opens it. The whole thing is

510
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: just a ritual and like the same porn plays every time.

511
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, the same.

512
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: Like he just reaches over like shuffles it to, you know,

513
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 3: from CNN to the porn screen and then comes up

514
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 3: same the same tape, takes.

515
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: It literally the same tape every time.

516
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was like these really oily people just.

517
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: Have he loves.

518
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: He's obsessed with baby oil, so I don't know, you

519
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 1: guys would all have to rub up with oil and

520
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: like pretend to be loving this. Was he just laying there, Yes.

521
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 3: He's just laying there.

522
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 2: It's just incredible because he's so he's marketed as.

523
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 3: Like some god of sex, and then it's.

524
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: Just the worst sex I've ever heard of, And.

525
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 3: I feel like that's just how I do. That's how

526
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 3: it always is.

527
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 6: Really.

528
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, like when your whole image

529
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: is about like attracting hot women, Like when do these

530
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 2: men have never learned how to please a woman in

531
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: their lives.

532
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

533
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 3: I think people don't realize that because people will go

534
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 3: up to have like you're the man, you oh my god,

535
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 3: and they want to be just like him, like he.

536
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 6: I don't think that's the right answer.

537
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 7: Yeah.

538
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 3: This this sex was really bad and it was so routine,

539
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 3: you know, like he's just laying there. Everyone kind of

540
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 3: like goes on top of him, and in times where

541
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: he would like move or get up, I'm like, whoa

542
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 3: is he? Okay, it's awkward.

543
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: Your life was so carefully monitored and you're now living there.

544
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: I mean, can can you masturbate? Or are you like

545
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: they're watching me?

546
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 6: Not really?

547
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: So your sex is your like sex drive and sexual

548
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: life is just frozen, I.

549
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 3: Think because there's like sex like paintings and sculptures and

550
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: so it's like a really sexually charged place and like

551
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 3: like I did, you know, sleep with people outside of

552
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: the mansion. Yeah, And I justified it by you know,

553
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 3: hef was having all these group sex and all these

554
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 3: people around, so technically, yeah, you know, why not not anonymists?

555
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 6: Yeah?

556
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, well he wanted you to.

557
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: I didn't tell him, right, And the baby OLPs just

558
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: to go back to it is like giving everyone infections and.

559
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the Johnson and Johnson baby oil, it's not

560
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 3: what is there?

561
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you guys tried to tell him it was

562
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: giving you infections and he didn't care and just continued

563
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 2: the baby oil.

564
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 3: Which yeah, east infections, bacterial vagiosis that I didn't even

565
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 3: know about before. Oh my god. I'm like, we told

566
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 3: him and we swapped it with like regular lube, and

567
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 3: I would look back and he's he thinks we're not looking,

568
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: and he's swapping it back to the baby oil. Like

569
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 3: this this little shit, Like what the heck exactly what

570
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: he is? He's a little shit. I know, he's a

571
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: little shit. Such a narcissist.

572
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: I mean like everything you're describing, like you literally were

573
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: like trying to have conversations with him about anything real

574
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 2: and it would just be him like that's nice, honey,

575
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: or like that's sad.

576
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 3: Don't talk about that like real thing with me.

577
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 6: Just literally would ignore you.

578
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 3: I talk about it in the book How a Woman

579
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 3: Brought It was like New York Times or something like

580
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 3: a bound book, and it was on Heef's birthday every

581
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 3: year since he was born or something like that. And

582
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: he flipped through and there was no articles about him,

583
00:26:59,160 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: and he just.

584
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 6: Threw the in the trash.

585
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: It's so so insane. I mean, thank god, because he

586
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: was a hoarder and it would have taken up too

587
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: much space, but also like crazy, And he had two

588
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: people on his staff whose whole job was just to

589
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: find articles about him from the week.

590
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 3: Yes, and I think those were the articles that other

591
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 3: people had missed because he had the office staff and

592
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: then he had the scrap book staff.

593
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 7: Oh wow.

594
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 6: The scrapbooks staff would find articles.

595
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 3: But sometimes they would avoid, you know, the really dark

596
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 3: like articles or websites no one has ever heard of.

597
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 3: Right then his little friends on manly night would bring

598
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: oh have you seen this one? And he's like, oh no,

599
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 3: I haven't. And of course it's like bringing apple to teacher.

600
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 3: The friends brown nosed as well, because he was like

601
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 3: a country club membership that they didn't want revoked.

602
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: But I have two questions of which one do I ask? First,

603
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: I guess, just based on that, who were his friends?

604
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 3: Who are these people?

605
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:49,959
Speaker 6: Random?

606
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: It was?

607
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 6: It was random?

608
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 3: It was. He loved movies. He donated a film collection

609
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 3: to some school and restored some film collections of other schools.

610
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: He was really into movies. I don't know exactly why

611
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 3: or what, but he could what droomed, But he could

612
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: watch movies all the time. And so he had a

613
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: lot of friends that were in the movie business, people

614
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 3: that you know, wrote reviews on movies, people that would

615
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 3: help him with like notes on movies.

616
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 6: I think the producer of The.

617
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 3: Girl's Next Door came to Manly night his brother, this

618
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 3: guy Ray Anthony, who is a big band leader, total pervert.

619
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 3: I don't mind calling him.

620
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: Calling everyone out.

621
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 3: I don't care anymore. But yeah, a lot of his

622
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: friends were pretty pervy. I mean that makes sense.

623
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: Are you like somebody gonna get me? Or like, are

624
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: you scared writing this book?

625
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 3: Okay, not at all. I think when I was at

626
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 3: the mansion, I was. I was on edge twenty four

627
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: to seven anxiety. And now I'm like, nothing gonna be

628
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: taken away from me. I have nothing to hide. You know,

629
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 3: that's here it is, here's the truth.

630
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: Did you know about the curfew right away? Like when

631
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: you first moved in, How did that strike you?

632
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: Well?

633
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 3: I didn't even realize that it was a curfew because

634
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 3: he guys like, oh, movies at six on this day

635
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 3: and that. So I'm like, oh, I'm just showing up,

636
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 3: and now after you know, not much time, I'm like, oh,

637
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: I can't really do anything else if I'm kind of

638
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 3: tied to this schedule, right, So it was curfew disguises

639
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 3: and disguise as a schedule.

640
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: I guess there was no like you weren't allowed to

641
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: go out for drinks on a random night.

642
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 6: No, No, I was afraid. I got to became afraid

643
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 6: to ask.

644
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 3: You know. Sometimes I would go to Disney and like, oh,

645
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 3: I won't even be able to stay for the fireworks,

646
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: or I would just rush back.

647
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 6: I wouldn't even ask.

648
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: I remember one time I asked him if we could

649
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 3: go to Disney in Paris. I knew he liked Disneyland,

650
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 3: and he just said, you know, go when I'm gone,

651
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 3: like dead, Yeah.

652
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 7: Oh my god, okay, okay, yeah right, when's not going

653
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 7: to be wow.

654
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it bears asking and framing for

655
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: people who are like why are you staying here? Like

656
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: what was keeping you there?

657
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 6: Weird?

658
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 3: Right, like what was keeping me there? I do remember

659
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 3: at one point where you know, I had plenty of money.

660
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 3: I had like a few million dollars at some point

661
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 3: and I could leave. I was fine on my own,

662
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 3: I would be fine, completely fine. And I remember telling

663
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 3: my mom like he's getting older, like he needs me,

664
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 3: like I can't leave him.

665
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 6: And I don't know what that is.

666
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 3: Stockholm syndrome, I don't know something to where I felt

667
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 3: that he really needed me and he was he got

668
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 3: really reliant on me, and I was er until the

669
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: day he died.

670
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: I mean that it makes sense to me once you

671
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: came back, why you stayed. I mean, the whole thing

672
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: makes sense to me. But I'm curious about the period

673
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: when before you left and you started having panic attacks, right, So,

674
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: I mean I felt that just reading it, because I

675
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: was like, I feel claustrophobic just reading this. But what

676
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 2: were they kind of centered around this idea of not

677
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: having freedom or like what was that?

678
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 3: I think? So I think I'm not having freedom not

679
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: knowing who I was. I was just wrapped up in

680
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 3: someone else's identity and I'm going through all these thoughts

681
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: and at the same time, I'm in this little vanity

682
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: that's just a tiny little room, and you know, I

683
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 3: see the shadow of footsteps and it's like, okay, are

684
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 3: people listening to me? You start getting a little bit paranoid,

685
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: like am I being recorded in this little room? Like

686
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know. There's no place where

687
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: you could really feel free or private or anything. So

688
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 3: the anxiety kicked in. And there's girls always trying to

689
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 3: replace you. There's girls always trying to you know. One

690
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 3: of the old girlfriends came and its like you should

691
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 3: go out of town and when you're gone, I'll be

692
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 3: here with him.

693
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 8: And you're describing how just like ah, you're like fighting

694
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 8: to cue something you don't even really want, but like, yeah,

695
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 8: you like somehow in your.

696
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: Mind and it's understandable. And I think for a while

697
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: you thought like, oh, this is just a prison of

698
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: my own making and whatever. But then you actually tried

699
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: to leave once and found out that oh no. When

700
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: he came over the loud speaker, can you tell us

701
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: about that experience?

702
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. We were going to get married and the

703
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 3: first time, and we were going to film a show

704
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 3: called Marrying Half. It was not my idea.

705
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 6: It was going to be on Lifetime.

706
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 3: And I overheard Half in the producer talking about they

707
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 3: were going to get paid eight hundred thousand dollars for

708
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 3: this two hour special in lifetime and.

709
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 6: Half came to me with this talent fee.

710
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 3: I never asked him for anything, and he came to

711
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 3: me with this paperwork to sign and it was a

712
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 3: talent fee of twenty five hundred dollars. And I said,

713
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: you know, I don't expect I'm KENNI cautarry the whole thing.

714
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 3: I'm introverted, Like this is gonna be awkward. I mean,

715
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 3: how to do all this stuff and to make me

716
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 3: feel like I have a little bit of a seat

717
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 3: at the table like this, I'm not asking for half,

718
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 3: like to maybe ten thousand or something. And he said

719
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: to me, what are you in this? And immediately all

720
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 3: these interviews came back where I felt trapped and people

721
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 3: were like, oh, you're a gold digger and you're all

722
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 3: this stuff.

723
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 6: All came back. And when he said what are you

724
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 6: in this for? I just like I need a break.

725
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: Like that was the breaking point, and I stormed out

726
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: of the little vanity and in down the hall and

727
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 3: out the door and I'm like, I just need to

728
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: go walk around the park, Hombie Hills Park. And as

729
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: I was going down security, there's a security booth at

730
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 3: the back gate just before the back gate, as usually

731
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 3: when I walked down, the gates automatically open because I

732
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: see him coming down on the camera. But I walked

733
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: down the gates the old Crystal and I were just

734
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 3: about to open the gate, and I hear have come

735
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 3: on the speakerphone there and he said if Crystal tries

736
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: to leave, detain her.

737
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 6: And I just kind of her.

738
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 3: I kind of stopped in my tracks. The gate didn't open,

739
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I am I'm trapped. I really am trapped,

740
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 3: Like I'm going through all this stuff in my mind,

741
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: but I'm really physically trapped here.

742
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 6: And so I walked back like.

743
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 3: A said, like said puppy back to the vanity, Like

744
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 3: I need to strategize, like I need to actually get

745
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: out of here, like make up plan. Yeah.

746
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, So I made the best plan that I could

747
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 6: as a twenty five, twenty five year old, I mean

748
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 6: pretty good plan.

749
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was, honestly.

750
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it in one second because I want

751
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 2: to touch on one other thing first, but pretty dope

752
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: the filming of the show. Even first of all, you

753
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: didn't get paid for the filming.

754
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: Of the show.

755
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 6: Right next door, I got paid zero dollars.

756
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: You got paid zero dollars for the Girls next Door.

757
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 3: Zero yeah, completely zero nothing. It reminds me of the Douggers.

758
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 3: We talked to Jill Duggar. Zero dollars.

759
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: It's so crazy that producers will allow that to happen,

760
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 2: that the stars of the show don't get paid because

761
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: the men who are in charge of.

762
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 3: The show are the ones. That's so fucking crazy.

763
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: But how was that?

764
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 3: Like?

765
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 6: Was it fun? Was it stressful? It was stressful.

766
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm cut out for reality TV. I

767
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: was immediately thrown on. I was told to say I'm

768
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 3: not the new Holly, Holly's the old me. And that

769
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 3: started a rift.

770
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 6: Almost almost immediately.

771
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 3: And yeah, they would tell me you have more personality

772
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 3: and like what, like I didn't know at that point.

773
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 3: I've been like beating down and broken down. Like my

774
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 3: whatever personality I had left was you know, barely barely

775
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 3: in there.

776
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: So that was hard.

777
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 6: It was a hard season to get through. It didn't

778
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 6: get picked up for another season.

779
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 3: They just try to replace like for like three girls out,

780
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 3: three girls in, and it didn't work how they planned.

781
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was a terrible experience being on that show.

782
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 6: I hated it.

783
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: It is a really good point that like your identity

784
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: is like completely broken down. At this point, you have

785
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 2: no identity other than being girlfriend, your playboy mansion girl,

786
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: like you're not allowed to have any other identity.

787
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

788
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 6: So I'm like, I don't know what to do.

789
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then it makes me seem like a total

790
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 3: you know, here's this here she is the dumb blonde

791
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 3: right here. Yeah, it's tough. That sucks.

792
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: And then promoting the show also sounded like hell. And

793
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: I was super pissed at Chelsea Handler reading about that

794
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: experience in your book.

795
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't mind talking about it.

796
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 3: I just I remember it was around the the year

797
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: that I had left the mansion and one of the

798
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 3: Playboy policies said, oh, Girl's next Door Season six is

799
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 3: going to be on DVD. We'll give you five thousand

800
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 3: dollars to promote it. And I thought, wow, it's fine

801
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 3: money finally for the show, Like this is my chance

802
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 3: to like actually make something for the show. Like, yeah,

803
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: I'll take the five thousand dollars and I'll go promote

804
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 3: the the DVD. And I was sent to Howard Stern.

805
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 3: We were on Chelsea Chelsea Lately, I think it was

806
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 3: called at the time, And immediately you know the press

807
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 3: and in all the media. The situation I was in

808
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 3: was a definite like low hanging fruit, Like I was

809
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 3: an easy target and they just went straight for it.

810
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 3: They went, you know, daddy issues, where's your dad? What

811
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 3: does your dad think about this? I'm like, oh, you know,

812
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: he passed away? And then ah, yeah, exactly like I

813
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 3: called it, like daddy issues. The audience is laughing like,

814
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, this is I don't know. I'm like, oh,

815
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 3: maybe this is show business, like I don't know, Like

816
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 3: Howard Stern has completely ripped me apart, like oh are

817
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: you did you have orgies? Does that mean you're a lesbian?

818
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 3: And did you did you really like he or you know,

819
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 3: asking me all this stuff, and I thought, okay, I'm

820
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 3: going under the bus or Hal's going under the bus.

821
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 3: And it's just I've tried to find that interview to

822
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 3: this day and I can't find it anywhere. So he's

823
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 3: pulled it. Really Yeah, a lot of things have been pulled.

824
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 3: I think a lot of Chelsea Handler stuff has been pulled.

825
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 3: And I thought, I'm like, oh, she's she's a woman,

826
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 3: like maybe, but I think a lot of the women

827
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 3: are pulled into this, like misogynistic view and culture as well.

828
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 3: And I am also guilty of contributing to it by

829
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 3: you know, posting all this playboy stuff and DNA on

830
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 3: Instagram and unknowingly or without realizing, contributing to this culture.

831
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 2: But I mean also that era, I think the culture

832
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: has had a bit of an awakening since that era. Like,

833
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 2: I think we've all participated in some you know, internal

834
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: line misogyny, and hopefully we've evolved a bit since then.

835
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 2: I think I think culturally we have. And then no,

836
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: now there's a reckoning for people like have in this

837
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 2: sort of mass objectification of women being considered super good

838
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 2: and normal and eighteen year old girls with old men

839
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 2: that's hot, that's cool.

840
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: Well, sisters, and that's very very very not nice.

841
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 6: It's disgusting.

842
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: It's discussed.

843
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 6: So that was really sad for me to watch because

844
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 6: those were the other.

845
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: Two main girlfriends. We're twin sisters.

846
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 3: Like that is so dark, yeah, oh yeah, and he'd

847
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 3: be like ooh, like my babies, oh, wanting them to

848
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 3: like kiss on each other, and it's disgusting. It's you cush, Yeah,

849
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 3: why isn't he like, Okay, these these girls are going

850
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: to be traumatized the rest of their life, Like he

851
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 3: would never think that way.

852
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 2: No, it wouldn't even occur to someone like that. I

853
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 2: feel like he's just thinking about himself. I mean, based

854
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: on your book, don't I didn't know him. Based on

855
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 2: your book, it sounds like a person who is only

856
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 2: ever thinking about himself.

857
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: And well he's a narcissist.

858
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 3: Yeah sure, yeah, yeah. I didn't even realize that until

859
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 3: I had time away, and I'm like, oh, complete narcissist.

860
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 6: I feel like they.

861
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 3: I feel like they do that too.

862
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: I feel like once you have some time away, that's

863
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: that's how a lot of people leave cults, too, is

864
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: they like really the next guess we have, like went

865
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: on a vacation.

866
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 3: It happened so much.

867
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, what I mean I can actually

868
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: think now, Yeah.

869
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're not taking up every moment of my

870
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: time and plucking all of my life energy. Right yeah.

871
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 2: And then also, I really quick when you hear about

872
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 2: the weekly allowance, because that was so strange as well.

873
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 6: The ritual of that, Yeah, that was gross.

874
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 3: Every Friday you had to ask half for money, and

875
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 3: so you go into his room or try and find

876
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 3: him wherever he is. You know, you kind of wait

877
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 3: when he's until he's done in the office and goes

878
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 3: back to his room and you go in there.

879
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 6: And HI like, can I can we have our allowance?

880
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: Yeah?

881
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 3: I would go in with the other girls. I'm like,

882
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 3: I don't want to go and buy myself. It's embarrassing,

883
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 3: but all of us going in is equally embarrassing.

884
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 6: And he's like, oh, yeah, let me get it. He

885
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 6: acts if he was surprised or something, Oh can we

886
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 6: get a loss?

887
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 3: And he'd take his little pouch out of his pocket

888
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 3: and it has a key for his little cabinet that locks,

889
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 3: and he'd pull out an envelope of money that one

890
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 3: of his secretaries refills every week, and yeah, he would.

891
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 3: He would like count it out, like one hundred, two hundred,

892
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 3: and I think it was to a thousand. We would

893
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 3: get a thousand each on Fridays, and yeah, we collect

894
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 3: our money. Like I didn't think too much of it,

895
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 3: but then as it's continued, I'm like, oh, okay, this

896
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 3: is I feel like a like I'm having sex for

897
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: money for sure.

898
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, and it felt gross, but I think he really

899
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 6: enjoyed that part of it.

900
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, he enjoyed making people feel bad.

901
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 3: Yes, feel bad and feel small. He he loved the

902
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 3: old movies with the damsels in distress, and for some

903
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 3: reason he believed women were like that or wanted the

904
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 3: smaller you made yourself or the more helpless.

905
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: He liked it. What is that?

906
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 6: I don't know, but it's you know, he loved watching

907
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 6: the movies where the women would.

908
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 3: Be fainting or in the big old dresses and they

909
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 3: can't really walk or get anywhere, and it's weird.

910
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: It seems like he was trapped mentally in the fifties.

911
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe like everything was about recreating like this old

912
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 2: era from his life. Yeah, that was the impression that

913
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 2: I got.

914
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's yeah, yeah, yeah, it stuck there.

915
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 3: You know. Even his style he started with the lapale

916
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 3: smoking jackets, right pipe, and he stole that from movies

917
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 3: from the olden days, And like the whole house.

918
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: Was decorated like brand new in the seventies, but then

919
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: it just never changed.

920
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 6: Never changed, which is so TM capsule wild.

921
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I feel yeah, that is wild. So there

922
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 3: was no engagement, right, how did it go?

923
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 6: Well?

924
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 3: One day, Mary, his secretary, called me in her office

925
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 3: and asked me what type of diamond shape I liked.

926
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 6: I'm like, oh, you know, I don't know much about jewelry.

927
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 3: I never had much jewelry growing up, Like, oh, I

928
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 3: don't know, like maybe square and she goes, oh, you

929
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 3: know you like round because it.

930
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 6: Shines more when the light hits in you like crying?

931
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 6: Okay around and yeah.

932
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 3: That Christmas half gave me a music box is like

933
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 3: the Little Mermaid music box. And I opened it and

934
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 3: there was a ring inside, and he just said to me,

935
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 3: I hope it fits. I'm like, okay, I guess I put.

936
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 6: It on that finger.

937
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 3: And maybe he never asked me in case I would

938
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 3: say no, I'm not sure, but I figured either I'm

939
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 3: here and I'm marrying him or I leave tomorrow, and

940
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 3: I don't know what that looks like.

941
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 6: So here we go.

942
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 2: And did they already have the like wedding special plan.

943
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 3: When he did it? Yeah, they had the wedding special

944
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 3: planned for the first time, for that first time, and

945
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 3: I ran away and they still They're like, oh, we

946
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 3: need you to still be on it. We need you

947
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 3: to still I think it's on YouTube somewhere, but I

948
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 3: went on there. I can't even watch it back. I

949
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 3: don't even know what I said, but I went on

950
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 3: there and said something. But that special is still aired.

951
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: And they so they decided for you that you were

952
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 2: going to get married, and that you were going to

953
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: it was going to be filmed, and all of this

954
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 2: was just handed to you.

955
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: No, no, when you don't even know if it's real.

956
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: You're like, are we actually getting married? Is this just

957
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 1: for a show?

958
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:28,439
Speaker 3: Is this? Yeah?

959
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 6: Like is this a good? Like pr ending for half?

960
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 3: Like I don't know?

961
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting.

962
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 6: It even for him or me or media.

963
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: I mean it's worth noting that, like when you said,

964
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: like getting paid for sex made me feel really bad

965
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: and whatever. A listener might be like, well, what do

966
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: you think you're there for? But like the book, you

967
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 1: like really are trying to care for this man and

968
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: to connect with this man, and I love this man,

969
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: like you're a good person. It's like trying to infuse

970
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: some sense of like humanness into a vessel of emptiness. Yeah,

971
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: so you're giving it, you're all. So it's not really

972
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: surprising to me that he would choose you to to marry.

973
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,919
Speaker 1: That makes sense. I mean, you're giving it a real

974
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: college try.

975
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just doesn't care how you feel. About it.

976
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's true.

977
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 3: So tell us about how you escaped the I At

978
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 3: that time, I had started becoming friends with doctor phil

979
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 3: Son Jordan McGrath, and I know, so random, so spoiled.

980
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 6: Hopefully he's grown up a bit since then, but we

981
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 6: were just friends.

982
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 3: I wasn't attracted to him in anyway. I'm like, oh,

983
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 3: you know, just friends, and I didn't have anyone really

984
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 3: to talk to. I didn't have many friends. And he

985
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 3: told me, like I told. I told him what happened,

986
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 3: and he said he was a very new friend. And

987
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: he goes, oh, you need to come up and talk

988
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 3: to my dad. You come up to the doctor Phil.

989
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 6: I'm like, oh cool, Like he's this therapist on TV,

990
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 6: Like he'll totally understand my situation.

991
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 3: So I go up to his house like up on

992
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 3: Mulholland wherever, and he's sitting me down on the couch.

993
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 6: He's like, you're a twenty four year old woman. You

994
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 6: have your whole life.

995
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 3: You shouldn't be stuck there and all this stuff, just

996
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 3: like a doctor Phil episode, Like like okay. And so

997
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 3: I come back down with my new found like I

998
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: don't know confidence, and like, how do I get out

999
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 3: of here. So I slowly like moved stuff out of

1000
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 3: the drawers and everything to where I would open it

1001
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 3: and there'll be like one T shirt or T shirts

1002
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: looks like it maybe I still live there.

1003
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: And then when you've been saving little pieces of your allowance.

1004
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I've been saving up, which was.

1005
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: Like hard to do because they watch and make sure

1006
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: that you're spinning in on your eyelashes and your makeup

1007
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: and your whatever that nobody's saving it. But you've been

1008
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 1: like squirreling away little little things. So okay, so there's

1009
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 1: you've been. Now you're taking your stuff out.

1010
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's slowly taking my stuff out, And like how

1011
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 3: do I actually leave?

1012
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 6: I can't tell him or ask him.

1013
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 3: And so one movie night, we're just in the movie,

1014
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 3: in the movie and the last of myself's in my

1015
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 3: car and I told him, like I got to go

1016
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 3: to the bathroom.

1017
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 6: I'll be our back.

1018
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 3: And I get in my car and this is just

1019
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 3: totally out of character for me. The security is seeing me.

1020
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 3: Probably it's a movie night. She should be in the

1021
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 3: movie with half. They see me like drive down the

1022
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: driveway to the back gate, like oh, he comes out,

1023
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 3: like the security guard and the couple others, I think,

1024
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 3: and they're confused, and I'm like, oh, I'm just going

1025
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 3: to the store to get tampons.

1026
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 6: Really I need to get tampons, and.

1027
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 3: Don't won hear about that. So they let me out

1028
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 3: the back gate and I was gone.

1029
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1030
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: So, I mean, they're seeing all sorts of the craziest

1031
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: shit in the world, but they can't hear the word tampon.

1032
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: It's just unbelievable.

1033
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 3: It's weird, right, Yeah, it is if I would have

1034
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 3: said anything else, like oh, I'm going to get cough

1035
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 3: medicine or something, Oh, I'll go get it for you

1036
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 3: or right.

1037
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny because there are women naked there constantly,

1038
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 2: but they but that part of womanhood has to be

1039
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 2: hidden away.

1040
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't that weird? Like I don't think Heff would

1041
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 3: ever understand how period worked at all. What did people

1042
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 3: do when they were on their periods. I mean, I

1043
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 3: guess they just took care of it and were there,

1044
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 3: But I never saw like tampons or pads or anything

1045
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 3: around like HEF's room.

1046
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 2: I mean, everyone had to maintain a perfect glossy as.

1047
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: If you're on your period. You weren't in the sexu rotation.

1048
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 6: I'm assuming I don't think so.

1049
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot of people lied as well.

1050
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 1: They were always all.

1051
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 3: He wouldn't have cared at all, right, Yeah, but the

1052
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 3: twins would to get out of movie nights, get out

1053
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 3: of the sex, it would be period and to get out.

1054
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 6: Of movie nights it would be your stomach cards.

1055
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, understandable. So you get out and then you what

1056
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 3: happened with with Jordan. I just realized he was a

1057
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 3: spoiled brat and it would be very hard to get

1058
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 3: along with him in the long term. He started a band,

1059
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 3: and he was paying to open for the opening act

1060
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 3: of bands, so be like the band and then whoever

1061
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 3: opens for them, And then Jordan would pay to open

1062
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 3: for the opener, and so he would roll up in

1063
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 3: like a rolling Stone style tour bus, when if you're

1064
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 3: opening for the opener, you like bring your own stuff

1065
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 3: and trailer and whatever. And so it got a little

1066
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 3: embarrassing and he would pay for all of his friends

1067
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 3: for everything, and I'm like, how do you know if

1068
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 3: your friends really like you, you know, you should let

1069
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 3: them take you know, take care of the bills sometimes.

1070
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 3: And then I started becoming the enemy, right, and it

1071
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 3: just was never going to work out, especially like that's

1072
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 3: a power and balance as well, you know.

1073
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you didn't really want to be with him

1074
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:36,439
Speaker 2: in the first place, right, Yeah.

1075
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I grew to like him because I'm like, oh,

1076
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 3: he's the same age and we really like Disney stupid

1077
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 3: stupid stuff.

1078
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 6: But it was all, Yeah, it was very toxic.

1079
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 3: So how did you end up back in? Right back?

1080
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 3: How did I end up back? Mary called me and

1081
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 3: said that hef is really sad since I've been gone,

1082
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 3: and you know, the girls that were there were just

1083
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 3: like doing it for him and they were just he

1084
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 3: missed me and that I should reconnect with him. And

1085
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 3: everything blew up with Jordan, and I just thought, maybe

1086
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 3: that's where I'm meant to be. Maybe I'm meant to

1087
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 3: be and that's like my fate or destiny or whatever.

1088
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you.

1089
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: Started a business which land is so cute, and it

1090
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: had like kind of blown up and you were just like,

1091
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: fuck this shit, I'll go back, Like what am I gonna?

1092
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, especially after so long of him not giving

1093
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 2: you any actual love or care in any way, the

1094
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 2: fact that he's now it seems like, oh he.

1095
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 6: Actually likes I'm like, oh, he misses me.

1096
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's like finding for me. It makes you

1097
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: feel special in a weird way. Yeah, But yeah, I

1098
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 3: went back and we ended up getting married. There's only

1099
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: like ten people at the wedding. It was very mellow,

1100
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 3: and then things change. He respected me more, and I

1101
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 3: think that that helped. You know, he went from any

1102
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 3: girls that came in, he'd be like oogling them and like, oh,

1103
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 3: they'd bend over. But then but I went from that

1104
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 3: to like have you met my wife Crystal? And I'm like, whoa,

1105
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 3: Like this is different, and so it became a bit

1106
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 3: easier for me to be there. But it did get

1107
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 3: to the point where I'm like, I do still feel trapped.

1108
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 3: It's the same schedule, and but yeah, I felt I

1109
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 3: couldn't leave him.

1110
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: I mean, at that point, he's getting quite old and

1111
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 2: his health is starting to fail and like getting.

1112
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 3: Harder for him to walk, and yeah, and I was

1113
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 3: really I protected him, like, oh, you.

1114
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 1: Were making it look like he was still at least

1115
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: to him, still the man. It's just the kindest thing

1116
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: you could do for him. But you know, did he

1117
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: deserve it.

1118
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: That's a good point, But it did seem like it

1119
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: was a lot more tolerable living there. And then because

1120
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 2: you had a little breath that he knew he could

1121
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,879
Speaker 2: lose you, So the dynamic was maybe a little bit different. Yeah, yeah,

1122
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 2: it's interesting.

1123
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 3: Once I finally like stood up for myself and I

1124
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 3: got sick as well, and I stopped dyeing my hair,

1125
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 3: you know, like bleach blonde, and he seemed to not

1126
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 3: really worry too much about it.

1127
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 6: Got my implants taken.

1128
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: Out, unbelievable, Like the woman that he's loving interesting the

1129
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: most has brown hair and grobs. Yeah, like what and

1130
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 1: the ever living hell like that is just such a shaker?

1131
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: What a twist ending for.

1132
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, well maybe he grew up a little bit, but

1133
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: it took him to age ninety one.

1134
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: Ninety He's like, actually, I just can't see you, you know.

1135
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 3: I remember I got the inpunce out and I came

1136
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 3: back and his friends are like, oh, whorry was Crystal

1137
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 3: because I had to go for like a few days.

1138
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 6: And then he's like, oh, she had a back surgery.

1139
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 6: I'm like, did he think I had a back surgery?

1140
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 8: Like what the heck?

1141
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 3: But I'm like, let's just roll with it. Whatever.

1142
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 7: Yeah You're like, yeah, yeah, back.

1143
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 3: Surgery on my juice.

1144
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: And I love that, like like like plastic surgeons that

1145
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: the Mansion were like manicurists, like oh go to this guy,

1146
00:51:58,280 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: like like it was.

1147
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 3: Like nothing, just like I hate that it was like that.

1148
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 3: I hate that I felt that way about that, like

1149
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 3: oh yeah, it's like going to get a manicure, like oh,

1150
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 3: gonna go get my nose down, or going to get

1151
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 3: like oh gonna get lip again.

1152
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:09,879
Speaker 6: I don't like the way they did it here. Okay,

1153
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 6: be back.

1154
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 3: Another anesthesia likes full surgery.

1155
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: It's like serious stuff. Yeah, you almost died once.

1156
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, I mean and like they're like, well you're getting.

1157
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: Your nose done. We could just do this to your

1158
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 1: face and do this and it's like whoa, holy shit.

1159
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: And I guess now that's becoming even more normalized.

1160
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 6: Which is a big industry.

1161
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: It's a big industry.

1162
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1163
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: So he's getting old and things are different and then

1164
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: he actually, can you tell us about when he died

1165
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 2: and what that felt like?

1166
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I haven't really been asked about that yet.

1167
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 3: So it's it was hard because you know, I lost

1168
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 3: my dad, I lost my like high school love and

1169
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 3: best friend, and I've got sick pretty suddenly, and yeah,

1170
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 3: I was scared, so I don't know if I can

1171
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:55,760
Speaker 3: go through another loss.

1172
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 8: It was.

1173
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 3: It was.

1174
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 6: It was sad and.

1175
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 3: Hard and definitely complex. But he got sick pretty quick

1176
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 3: and he hated hospitals. Something about he wouldn't even have

1177
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 3: white sheets on his bed because of it reminded me

1178
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 3: of hospitals. He says, hospitals are places where people go

1179
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 3: to die. And he said, you know, if something ever

1180
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 3: has to me, I want to be He barely talks

1181
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 3: about death. I think he felt he was going to

1182
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 3: be immortal, but he said, if something ever happened to me,

1183
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 3: I just want to be in my bed.

1184
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 6: Here in my bed.

1185
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 3: And he ended up with an e coli infection that

1186
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 3: just wasn't treatable and it just got worse very fast.

1187
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 3: There was no there was like one antibiotic that could

1188
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 3: could cure it, and it wasn't working. He started going

1189
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 3: into like sepsis, and they said, you know, if he

1190
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 3: stays here, he's going to definitely die, and goes to

1191
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 3: the hospital, he'll have maybe thirty percent chance.

1192
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 6: And that's where I'm like, what do I do.

1193
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 3: I'm reading his advanced healthcare directive and I'm named on it,

1194
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 3: and I'm like, how how did I.

1195
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 6: End up being named on?

1196
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 8: You?

1197
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 6: Half nursing? And I'm making these decisions right now, I.

1198
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 3: Put it all out of body.

1199
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, so surreal.

1200
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 3: I couldn't because it's like, if I have if something

1201
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,720
Speaker 3: could save my life, then take me to the hospital.

1202
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 3: It can be And like, technically this is something that

1203
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 3: could maybe he could be saved.

1204
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: And what do I do?

1205
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 6: Do we take him there? Do we?

1206
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 3: I know he hates hospitals, and I had his attorney

1207
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 3: come and I had his new secretary, and I'm like,

1208
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 3: I don't want him to hear anything. He couldn't hear

1209
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 3: that well, but I'm like I don't want to discuss

1210
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 3: any of this in front of him. So we're in

1211
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 3: a different room and we're trying to decide what to do.

1212
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 3: And as we're trying to decide, one of the nurse

1213
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: comes out and said he's gone. So it's like he

1214
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,399
Speaker 3: decided for us, like he just wanted to be home.

1215
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 3: It was hard. I had I had mixed feelings and

1216
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 3: I still even after he died, I felt like I

1217
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 3: needed to.

1218
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 6: Keep protecting him.

1219
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 3: And when did that change and how it changed?

1220
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 6: When you know, I started having a sense of like

1221
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 6: I bought a house.

1222
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, this is the first house that's like

1223
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 3: been my home and my house where I felt at home.

1224
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 3: And I compared that to how I felt at the mansion,

1225
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 3: and it just the mansion was never home and I

1226
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 3: was uncomfortable for so many years.

1227
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 6: So I thought of that. And then freedom.

1228
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 3: You know, I bought a little farm in Hawaii, and

1229
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I can come and go as I please,

1230
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 3: and I can be out at night.

1231
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 6: It's so it's so weird.

1232
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 3: Curveew And then as I started dating again, I found

1233
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 3: myself and you know, by this time, like I had

1234
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 3: some money, i had a house, and I found myself

1235
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 3: dating men that were kind of controlling and manipulative, and

1236
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,439
Speaker 3: I'm like and had no jobs, and so I'm like, wow,

1237
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,879
Speaker 3: I'm kind of repeating the same situation, but I'm paying

1238
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 3: all the bills this time, and what am I doing wrong?

1239
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 6: And I'm like that place really affected me.

1240
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 3: And you know, I have rewarded me for being codependent,

1241
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 3: so I didn't know how to really do relationships.

1242
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 6: And so as I'm going through all this stuff.

1243
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,280
Speaker 3: I'm like, this place for a decade and a cellular

1244
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 3: level affected me way more than I thought I did.

1245
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 3: And that's when I'm like, I need to tell the

1246
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 3: truth and I need to just be honest about all

1247
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 3: of this and me too, happened Cosby stuff and all

1248
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 3: this stuff in Cosby was at the mansion a lot,

1249
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 3: and so like, I feel like the truth needs to

1250
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 3: come out and not let have controlled the narrative anymore.

1251
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 3: He did for so long.

1252
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 2: Beautiful, I mean, yeah, I think it's great that you're

1253
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 2: being honest and telling your story. Do you obviously you

1254
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 2: know you cared for him at the end, and your

1255
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 2: feelings are very complicated, Like do you see him now

1256
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 2: looking back on it as a predator?

1257
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 6: Absolutely? I think he was a predator.

1258
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 3: And his secretary Mary, he even said like takes likes

1259
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 3: to take on the broken ones or bring in the

1260
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 3: broken ones, and.

1261
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 1: Very ironic that he died watching The Wizard of Oz.

1262
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: The man behind the Curtain, just a little tiny man,

1263
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: a guy, yeah, narcissistic guy that made a world.

1264
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 2: There was something very metaphorical about you described how your

1265
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 2: breast had been removed and then you we're going to

1266
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:04,439
Speaker 2: get them done again in a different way.

1267
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 3: Can you talk about that a little bit when I

1268
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 3: had the implants taken out. I was told, oh, you

1269
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 3: can come back for a fat transfer, and I didn't.

1270
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 3: I was happy with how it turned out, and I

1271
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 3: didn't get a fat transfer. But two years later I thought, okay,

1272
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 3: like I should get the fat transfer because I felt

1273
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 3: that I don't know, it's that like cellular and grain thing,

1274
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 3: like oh, woman has to have like bigger.

1275
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 6: Breasts or it's ridiculous. It's like why I hate it?

1276
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 5: I hate it.

1277
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 3: And so I got a fat transfer and they took

1278
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:42,959
Speaker 3: fat from I was about one hundred and eighteen pounds

1279
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 3: when I got the fat transfer, and so they were

1280
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 3: just scraping it from everywhere. They even took it from

1281
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 3: like the pubig bone mound. I'm like, why do I

1282
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 3: have a scarlet.

1283
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 2: It's so weird.

1284
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 3: But they left all the cuts open and let it

1285
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 3: like kind of drain out because they fill your body

1286
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 3: with fluid to get the fat easier. The fluids raining out,

1287
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 3: there's blood draining out, and for some reason, I'm like,

1288
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 3: I don't feel all something's wrong.

1289
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 6: I feel like I'm fading in and out. I don't

1290
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 6: understand what's happening.

1291
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 3: So you know, I went to the emergency room and

1292
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 3: it turned out my blood my hemoglobin had dropped like

1293
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 3: below seven and I don't know, usually supposed to be

1294
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 3: like around fourteen for something like that, and it lost

1295
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 3: half the blood in my body. And they said, we

1296
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 3: legally can't let you leave the emergency room without a

1297
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 3: blood transfusion, and so they like rushed me to a

1298
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 3: blood transfusion and I had that and I slowly started

1299
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 3: getting better, but yeah, I almost bled out from the

1300
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 3: that transfer, So I don't recommend it. Yeah, there's something

1301
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 3: about just like loving yourself the way that you are,

1302
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 3: and now part of that didn't work properly. I have

1303
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 3: scars everywhere, but I don't care. And I feel that

1304
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 3: whoever i'm with like should love me for me, and

1305
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 3: if they don't and they start picking me apart, that's

1306
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 3: the wrong.

1307
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, wrong relationship. Are you dating anyone?

1308
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 3: Yeah? So I finally started dating at nice, normal kind people.

1309
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to get the number of your therapists.

1310
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1311
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 6: So, yeah, I met someone recently.

1312
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 3: Their producer and most of the films they've done there

1313
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 3: where the lead is a powerful, badass female, So like, okay,

1314
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,439
Speaker 3: I can hang with this, and so I'll see where

1315
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 3: that goes.

1316
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 6: But so far it's been it's.

1317
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 2: Been great and separate from your dating life because you

1318
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 2: are not defined by the.

1319
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 3: Men that you are with.

1320
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 2: I was just curious, like, what what's next for you?

1321
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 2: How has this journey been for you? Kind of like

1322
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 2: reclaiming your sense of self and.

1323
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: Your voice the Little Mermaid once again coming back.

1324
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:53,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard, and you know I talk about after

1325
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 3: leaving the mansion, I still see like, you know, the

1326
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 3: social media stuff and the filters and all those things

1327
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 3: and the standards, and that's still really hard for me.

1328
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 6: But I have seen a bit of a shift, you know.

1329
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 3: I'm seeing people that are still modeling when they're older

1330
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 3: and and things like that, like and the ads and

1331
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 3: the stores and things are getting better. I think it's

1332
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 3: so important that our value is in you know, determined

1333
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 3: by or given it given to us by a man

1334
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 3: like or by by any external person or thing besides

1335
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 3: you know ourselves.

1336
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 6: And I think when you feel it internally, you become

1337
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 6: more powerful.

1338
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about like the

1339
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: ritualistic baths you would do after these sessions.

1340
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so yeah, that's so gross. The bathtub was disgusting.

1341
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 3: The bathroom was all black like all black marble. Okay,

1342
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 3: so if there's like any dirt or whatever like that,

1343
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 3: you can't see it. And the inside of the bathtub

1344
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 3: with this like salmon pink really old tile and really

1345
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,479
Speaker 3: old like spray nozzles. So after the sex, we would

1346
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 3: all get in the bathtub and just like try and

1347
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 3: get the baby oil off of us, and most of

1348
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 3: the time I wouldn't really come off all the way,

1349
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 3: and then half would like come into the bathroom and

1350
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden we'd be like trying to

1351
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 3: like scramb up like and then he would come in

1352
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 3: and be like, oh, yeah, we love this and.

1353
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 6: We love being here, like squirt it on Amberg.

1354
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 3: This is fun. Like why like that with the the

1355
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 3: trampoline and the pillow fights.

1356
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: Sundays we're just.

1357
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 3: Fun ula hoops, fun in the sun.

1358
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: Where you guys are expected to just be basically having

1359
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: like a pillow fight from a twelve year old boys fantasy, Yes,

1360
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: jumping on trampolines and swimming around and doing the hula hoop.

1361
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 3: And the women's like I don't know, Like I don't

1362
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 3: think anybody there really liked doing all that stuff.

1363
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,439
Speaker 1: I could for a day, Yeah, it's like one day

1364
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: that could be fun.

1365
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 3: Okah, like just with your friend. It's like, oh, there's

1366
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 3: like thirty people watching me, Like yeah, yeah, yeah, it's weird.

1367
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: Right, No, to do that every week would be exhausting.

1368
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 2: It's such a perfect example of a gilded cage. And

1369
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 2: it just makes me think about how all of these

1370
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 2: things that he had and that you guys had are

1371
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 2: like the American dream. Everybody wants the mansion and they

1372
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 2: want the money and the girls.

1373
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 3: And it's like, did this fulfill anyone?

1374
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 2: Like, it doesn't seem like anyone in this situation was

1375
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 2: actually experiencing like fulfillment purpose meaning joy, you know what

1376
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 2: I mean, like an pleasure.

1377
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 6: I think so. I don't even know if hef did.

1378
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 3: To be honest, I do think he's this, you know,

1379
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 3: sad little boy that was like never shown love by

1380
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 3: his parents and overcompensated and ways he thought would help him.

1381
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 2: But weird, like there were no meaningful relationship, I mean

1382
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 2: very few I guess meaningful relationships. Ever, it seemed like

1383
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 2: in the house, how is your relationship with women changed

1384
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 2: since you've left?

1385
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 3: Gosh, it's gotten so much better. It was hard to

1386
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 3: trust anyone there. I met thousands of women and maybe

1387
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 3: have three friends from there to this day. But I

1388
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 3: think I'm learning to trust people more. I'm really valuing

1389
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 3: female friendship and I just think it's really important. Yeah. Same,

1390
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 3: so cute, that's so nice. Yeah.

1391
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely went through my like, I went through

1392
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 2: a phase where I didn't value female friendship, and I'm

1393
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 2: so much better now having women in my life. You know,

1394
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 2: it's so much better. Jesus Christ, that was so stupid,

1395
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 2: operating under.

1396
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 7: Whatever.

1397
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 3: When men are the driving factor in.

1398
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 2: Your life, it's just like it's just so much less fulfilling.

1399
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, or when anyone else, anyone external,

1400
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 2: you know, if someone listening is struggling with feeling like

1401
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 2: their value comes from their appearance, their body, their sexuality, like,

1402
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 2: what would you say to that person.

1403
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 3: I think that it's a journey. I think that life.

1404
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 3: Find the things that you love and follow that, you know.

1405
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 3: I dedicated the book to anyone who's struggled with self

1406
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 3: love and self acceptance because I think it is a

1407
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 3: journey and a process and I'm slowly finding it. But

1408
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 3: I think it's really important to have your own power

1409
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 3: and not not let someone else take that from you amen. Hi, Yeah,

1410
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 3: these are twins.

1411
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 8: I'm so.

1412
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 3: So doing that. You've been doing this too long. Your

1413
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 3: book is called Only Say Good Things? When and where

1414
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 3: is it out? It's out January twenty third everywhere and

1415
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 3: twenty fifth in the UK and Australia and everywhere else.

1416
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 6: And yeah, I'm excited it's happening.

1417
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 2: It's so good. Everyone go read it.

1418
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1419
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 1: But where do they find it on? Where do they

1420
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 1: find you on social media?

1421
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 6: Just at Crystal Laughner still until I change my name back?

1422
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 2: Great, thanks so much for thank you, thanks for having

1423
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 2: me sit there. We have it, Megan. Normally this would

1424
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 2: be the point where I would ask you if you

1425
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 2: would join this cult. I'm guessing actually I don't know.

1426
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 2: Would you do you think you'd go up with with Pef?

1427
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1428
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 1: It seems like from Crystal's book it gets pretty Disney

1429
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 1: worldish up in that world where uh, you know, every

1430
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: element is going into that moment happening for him. She

1431
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 1: also mentioned that he the staff would often say that

1432
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 1: he would pick girls with broken wings, so it feels

1433
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: like he knew what he was doing. And there are

1434
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 1: points in my life when I probably wouldn't And there

1435
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 1: are points in my life when maybe I could.

1436
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 2: Have Yeah, I think that's such a such a clear

1437
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 2: example of how important it was to him to have

1438
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 2: there be a highly imbalanced power dynamic in order to

1439
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 2: you know, achieve the level of control, the level of

1440
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 2: status that he had that allowed him to continue to

1441
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 2: pray on on young in like it. Really he sets

1442
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 2: up this perfect world that you know, it's almost a

1443
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 2: version of love bombing. It's like, you might not have

1444
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 2: the people who are love bombing, but you have the

1445
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 2: place that's love bombing, you have the brand that's love bombing,

1446
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:15,960
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It's like it's all so

1447
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 2: exciting and lavish and over the top. It almost amounts

1448
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 2: to the same thing. I feel like it's so true.

1449
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a cult that operates itself with like

1450
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: its own It just got its own orbit. It's crazy. Yeah,

1451
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: it's so fascinating.

1452
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 3: It is interesting.

1453
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 2: He has the paid staff, but then he has all

1454
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 2: of like everyone else. I mean, there are important, powerful

1455
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 2: Hollywood people there. It would be very difficult to speak

1456
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 2: up in an environment like that. It'd be very difficult

1457
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 2: to descend and to say that you disagree with something

1458
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 2: half as doing, you know, I think it's a perfect

1459
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 2: example of how Hollywood can breed these sort of culty

1460
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 2: dynamics when there's somebody who's very powerful and they have

1461
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 2: all the say in the world, they have all the

1462
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 2: money in the world, and they can kind of get

1463
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 2: people to do whatever they want because they don't comply.

1464
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot at stake yet.

1465
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I love this book. I can't recommend it enough.

1466
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: Please come again join us next week and as always,

1467
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flags, and.

1468
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 2: An never ever trust me Bye. Trust Me as produced

1469
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 2: by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and Steve Delemator.

1470
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 1: The special thanks to Stacy Para and our.

1471
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 2: Theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1472
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1473
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1474
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1475
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1476
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1477
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: Hits on Twitter.

1478
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word