1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: They are bad. Welcome back, lawmakers back from all four 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 2: corners of our great nation to solve the problems facing 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: us now, and that begins with averting a government shutdown. However, 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: there are a lot of questions about whether that is 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 2: possible with so few days left until of course, we're 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 2: looking at midnight Saturday, and it's a whole other sound 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: that we're going to talk about right now with Congressman 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 2: Dan Kildee of Michigan. Yeah, that's from the picket line. 13 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: The Congressman was there himself just a couple of days ago. 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 2: This is sound right now live from Detroit, as members 15 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: of the UAW anticipate a visit from President Joe Biden. 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 2: He's on the ground. We saw his arrival with on 17 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 2: fane from the UAW and Congresswoman Debbie Dingle. Unclear exactly 18 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 2: what the choreography here will include, but we'll keep you posted. 19 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: This is live sound though of the picket line as 20 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,199 Speaker 2: they wait for Joe Biden, who will be the first 21 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 2: sitting president. We're told to ever visit a picket line. 22 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: The optics here are quite remarkable. And that's where we 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 2: begin with Dan Kildey, who joins us from Capitol Hill. 24 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 2: A congressman. Is great to see, and we welcome you 25 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 2: back here. I wonder if this results in an endorsement 26 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 2: from the UAW. You are on that picket line. Is 27 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 2: Joe Biden doing the right thing by being. 28 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 3: There, Well, he's certainly doing the right thing for the 29 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 3: American economy and for the American worker by being there. 30 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 3: You know, we saw fourteen years ago the federal government 31 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 3: intervene the workers in those factories make big sacrifices in 32 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 3: order to keep the auto industry alive here in the 33 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 3: United States, and we succeeded that sacrifice. Now I think 34 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 3: should be repaid, and that's what the President is arguing for. 35 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 3: That's what I'm arguing for, and that's what the UAW 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 3: is negotiating for it to try to get back to 37 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 3: where they were before the industry nearly fell. So he's 38 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: definitely doing the right thing for the US economy. The 39 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 3: politics takes care of. 40 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 2: Itself There's been a lot of talk about competing interests, 41 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: as some see it, between supporting organized labor in this 42 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: case and pushing a transition to evs specifically not just 43 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: green energy, but EV's within the auto industry. I wonder 44 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 2: how the Democrats can straddle this and how the President 45 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: can succeed by pushing these two because the union seems 46 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: to see it in a different way. Congressman, how about you. 47 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: Well, they may see it in a different way, but 48 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 3: they don't fear the future. I mean, I talked to 49 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 3: these workers on the picket lines. I talk to them 50 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 3: in the grocery store. They're my neighbors. Yeah, they don't 51 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 3: fear the transition to electric vehicles. What they fear is 52 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 3: that the companies will use that transition as a way 53 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 3: to take take work away from union workers and give 54 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: it to unrepresented, non union shops. And so much of 55 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: the negotiation is not so much about whether the world 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 3: will change and more vehicles will be electric. That's going 57 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 3: to happen no matter who builds them. The question for us, 58 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 3: for those workers is to make sure they have their 59 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 3: share of that future, not that they have that new 60 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 3: that transition used as a mechanism as a way or 61 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: an excuse to take work away from union jobs. 62 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 2: Congressman, the President is just now speaking to members on 63 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: the picket line. 64 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 4: Here. 65 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: He's standing next to Sean Fain with a bullhorn in 66 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: his hand. Let's just listen to this for a moment 67 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: and hear what he says. 68 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 4: It's right here in our own in our own area. 69 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 4: It's corporate greed and the weapon we produced to fight 70 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 4: that enemy. Yes, liberators, the crew, liborators, the last people, 71 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 4: all of you working your butts off on those lines 72 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 4: to deliberate product companies. That's how we're gonna defeat these people. 73 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 4: That's how we're gonna defeat corporate greed is by standing together. 74 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: You know, this is a historic moment. 75 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 4: The first time in our country's history that is sitting 76 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 4: us a president has came out and stood on the 77 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 4: picking line, chose to stand up with workers in our 78 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 4: fight for economic and social justice. 79 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: All right, that's Sean Fain. We had just missed the 80 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: tail end of President Biden's remarks, which were apparently only 81 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: a couple of seconds long. Congressmen, the optics here are 82 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: really something, because I'm also remembering a day when the 83 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: executives from the Big Three were on the north lawn 84 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: of the White House with President Biden, with a big 85 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 2: crowd there to usher in the transition to evs and 86 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: essentially helping him promote Bidenomics. Are those not competing interests. 87 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 3: I really don't think they are. In fact, I was 88 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 3: there with the President and the leaders of the Big Three, 89 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 3: and I was there on the picket line, all supporting 90 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 3: the same thing. This is really about how the structure 91 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,679 Speaker 3: of the economy in the next one hundred years will look. 92 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 3: The last hundred years we saw the rise of the 93 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 3: labor movement and the construction of the middle class in 94 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 3: this country. So as we make this transition, and it's 95 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 3: inevitable that we will, the technology will drive that. The 96 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: real question is whether or not the workers who help 97 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 3: save those companies will also be in a position to 98 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 3: get the new work that will be developed as a 99 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 3: result of the transition to electric vehicles. It's different work, 100 00:05:55,240 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 3: it's a different kind of material that is used. Products 101 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 3: are going to be different, but they're going to be 102 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 3: assembled by somebody. And what UAW was saying, what I'm saying, 103 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 3: and I know the President is saying, is that those 104 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 3: jobs ought to be American jobs. They ought to be 105 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: union jobs. They ought to be done by the same 106 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 3: people who helped build those companies in the first place, 107 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: and fourteen years ago made a sacrifice to rescue those 108 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 3: companies from extinction. 109 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're spending time with Congressman Dan kilde Democrat from 110 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: Michigan with us as President Biden visits the picket line, 111 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: and it's one that Dan Kildy is no stranger to. 112 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 2: We had a grand debate, of course, about the Chips Act, 113 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 2: the Inflation Reduction Act, the IRA Congressman. You talked to 114 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: us in the throes of that debate. Were there enough 115 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: considerations for workers in that legislation. 116 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 5: Yeah. 117 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 3: I would have liked to have seen more. The way I, 118 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 3: for example, wrote some of the legislation that I authored 119 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: regarding the transition to electric vehicles would have required or 120 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 3: given a stronger bonus for that union work. But that's 121 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 3: not how it worked out. Much of it is left 122 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 3: to how we implement, and that's why I think it's 123 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 3: important who the President of the United States is. What 124 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 3: we're seeing now is unprecedented growth in those jobs that 125 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 3: are directly related to renewable energy, to electrification of transportation, 126 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: A lot of that is coming home, and that's because 127 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 3: we've created an environment where there are incentives for private 128 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 3: capital make those sorts of investments. That's a good thing. 129 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: Of course, I would like to have been able to 130 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 3: do more, but what we've done is really significant, and 131 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 3: were beginning to see the results of that. 132 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 2: Any sense of how long this is going to drag 133 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: on for. 134 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 3: No, I don't have a good sense of that. It's 135 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 3: going to be determined by not the President, not myself. 136 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 3: It's going to be determined by the UAW and the 137 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: company is sitting across the table. My hope is that 138 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: it's sooner rather than later. But you know what, I'll 139 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 3: stand with the workers. As long as they're fighting for 140 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 3: fair wage for themselves and their families, they're going to 141 00:07:58,840 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 3: have us with them. 142 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: Well, I have to ask you about what you're up 143 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 2: to on Capitol Hill now, and that is, of course, 144 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: trying to keep the government functioning. Here and talk about 145 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: a couple of competing headlines. This is on the Bloomberg 146 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: terminal right in front of me, McCarthy working overtime to 147 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: overcome hard right before shutdown. That's one story. The other one, 148 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: McCarthy says, House will pass stopgap with border security. And 149 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,239 Speaker 2: now we understand the Speaker is asking for a meeting 150 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: with the President on border security when we have something 151 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: like four or five days to figure all of this out. 152 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 2: Are we beyond the point of saving this situation? Congressman, 153 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: Is the government going to shut down this weekend? 154 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 3: Well, I fear that it will, because you know, Speaker 155 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 3: McCarthy talks a good game, but it's actions that speak 156 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 3: louder than words. On Thursday, he sent everybody home. Here 157 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 3: it is Tuesday. Congress is just now being called back 158 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: into session with just a few hours left to prevent 159 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 3: a total shutdown of the US government. You know, this 160 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: is not a time to be having nuanced conversations about policy. 161 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 3: This is the time for us to roll up our 162 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: sleeves and keep the government open. And let's face it, 163 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 3: what Speaker McCarthy's really doing is trying to remain speaker. 164 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 3: He made a bad deal with some of the most 165 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 3: extreme members of the United States Congress, and unfortunately he's 166 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 3: requiring us to pay the price for that bad deal 167 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: with the threat of a shutdown. The solution is a 168 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 3: bipartisan solution. I'm a member of the Bipartisan Problem solvers caucuss. 169 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 3: We've offered our solution. We had a bipartisan budget deal 170 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 3: back in May. I would put that on the table 171 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 3: as a solution. That's how it's going to end. The 172 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 3: question is what sort of pain do we have to 173 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 3: go through between now and then? And we ought to 174 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 3: be playing chestnut checkers. We ought to look a couple 175 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 3: of moves down the game and get there sooner rather 176 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 3: than later and try to prevent some of the harm 177 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 3: that will come from a shutdown. 178 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: Well, you're on the Ways and Means Committee, you serve 179 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: on the Budget Committee. You must be hearing things that 180 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 2: we don't hear. Congressman. Is the Senate going to get 181 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 2: us stopgap bill to the House before Speaker McCarthy does. 182 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 3: Well, I hope they do. I've talked to my senators. 183 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,719 Speaker 3: I've encouraged them to take up legislation that would be 184 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 3: a bipartisan spending package, include a short term and long 185 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 3: term implication, and send that over to the House and 186 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 3: then see if the Speaker McCarthy would put that bipartisan 187 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 3: deal on the table. If he doesn't, obviously he owns 188 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 3: this shutdown either way, but he could prevent it by 189 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 3: simply doing that and then sharpen his arguments, and if 190 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 3: he wants to have those conversations about policy, we're all ears. 191 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 3: We just don't want to do it with the threat 192 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: of a shutdown of the American government as his leverage 193 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 3: in getting something that he can't get through the normal 194 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 3: legislative process. 195 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 2: Well, you said something interesting. It's amazing to me how 196 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 2: short memories are. But there was a deal back in 197 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 2: August when we were heading for a potential government default 198 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 2: that was supposed to prevent all of this drama. What 199 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: if Speaker McCarthy did bring that bill back to the 200 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: floor that's already passed. Could it pass again today? 201 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 3: Absolutely? You had two thirds of Republicans voted for it, 202 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: almost three quarters of Democrats voted. That was obviously a 203 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 3: bipartisan deal. I got over three hundred votes in the 204 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 3: House of Representatives. 205 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: Now, is this whole drama about avoiding emotion to vacate it? 206 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 3: Sure is. The entirety of this drama is about the 207 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 3: Speaker trying to avoid that motion to vacate, which obviously 208 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: was a mistake for him to agree to in the 209 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 3: first place. I mean, he changed the rules to give 210 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 3: his I guess a dozen or so true opponents in 211 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 3: the Republican Conference the tool that they're now using against him. 212 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: That was a mistake. But you know what, if he 213 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 3: wants to have a conversation about how to handle this 214 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 3: whole thing and a bipartisan fashion, he should call Leader 215 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 3: Hakim Jeffries, and he should do it right away because 216 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 3: we're I'm sure willing to come to the table and 217 00:11:58,120 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 3: have that conversation. 218 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: If the Speaker said I'm just going to go for it, 219 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 2: I'm going to bring this Senate seear to the floor, 220 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 2: or the deal we already made, or the options that 221 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: you forwarded and Matt gets or someone did trigger the 222 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 2: motion to vacate, would Democrats come to the Speaker's defense 223 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: to help him keep the job. 224 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 3: I mean, it's hard to say. I would have to 225 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 3: have a conversation with our leader on that question, but 226 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 3: I will say this, I'm not super excited about being 227 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 3: a party to Republican dysfunction in the House and the 228 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 3: deals that they've made with one another, putting us in 229 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 3: a position where we have to make that kind of 230 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 3: a call. If the Speaker's really interested in trying to 231 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 3: avoid that eventuality and he wants Democrats to be involved, 232 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 3: he should make that call to Leader Jeffries. 233 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 2: I'm glad you could talk to us today. Congressman Dan Kildy, 234 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: great to have you back Democrat Michigan's eighth district with 235 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: us live there joining us from the Canon Rotunda in Washington. 236 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 2: You would have known that, or maybe you did by 237 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 2: watching us on YouTube, where we invite you as always, 238 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 2: search Bloomberg Global News and click play. 239 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: There we are. 240 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: Cameras are lit up in the studio as we assemble 241 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: our panel. Rick Davis joins Bloomberg Politics contributor and Republican 242 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 2: strategist along with Alvin Jordan Rock Solutions, Vice President Democratic Analysts. Gentlemen, 243 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 2: it's great to have both of you here. Alvin, I'll 244 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: start with you, as the Democrat. Do you want to 245 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: see your president there today? As the first sitting president 246 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 2: on a picket line has got the bullhorn out right now, 247 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 2: shaking hands. 248 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 6: Absolutely. I think we're at a place where it is 249 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 6: more than warranted. I think the political type rope that 250 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 6: the president finds himself in is one that makes it 251 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 6: understandable that he would be there. And all of that 252 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 6: is in addition to the fact that you know president 253 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 6: or the former President Trump will be there tomorrow, and 254 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 6: so it is very much, I think a race to 255 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 6: be kind of first in that way, inside you kind 256 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 6: of have to take a step back and applied kind 257 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 6: of the effort, I believe, especially considering that it is 258 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 6: a bit of a political tyro, considering that the push 259 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 6: forward ev and things of that nature is so prominent 260 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 6: and also present in the conversation as well. Definitely, you know, 261 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 6: a new time that we find ourselves. 262 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: In, Rick Davis, What does the President say to Mary 263 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: Bara what she calls him later on? 264 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 7: You know, Look, I mean I think that he's going 265 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 7: to say what he's been saying since he was first 266 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 7: elected to Congress, I'm the Union President, and he's acting 267 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 7: that way today. Look, I mean he was kind of 268 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 7: forced into this by Donald Trump announcing that he was 269 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 7: headed there, and. 270 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 5: Joe Biden wants a rose Garden strategy. 271 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 7: But I think today signals the end of the rose 272 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 7: Garden strategy. I think the two biggest impacts is he's 273 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 7: forced to go and hang out with his Union buddies, 274 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 7: which which he should. 275 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 5: Have done to begin with. 276 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 7: And all the polling now indicates that he's either an 277 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 7: a horse racer behind he needs to start a campaign today. 278 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: Well, there you have it. From Rick Davis and Alvin Jordan. 279 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: The campaign is on, and a lot more from our 280 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: panel straight ahead on the fastest show in politics. I'm 281 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 2: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. 282 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 283 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 284 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 285 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 286 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 287 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: Joe Biden has now officially become the first president to 288 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 2: visit a picket line. He chose Detroit, Wayne County. Of course, 289 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 2: the UAW now day twelve of the strike against the 290 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: Big Three. Another reason I guess that this becomes historic times. 291 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 8: Well, Street didn't over conquer the milk. 292 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 4: Built class. So let's keep going. 293 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: You deserve what you've earned, and you've. 294 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 8: Earned a hell of a lot more than you're getting 295 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 8: paid now. 296 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: You deserve what you've earned, and you've earned more than 297 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: you're getting now, so says Joe Biden. As we reassemble 298 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 2: our panel, Rick Davis is with US Republican strategist Bloomberg 299 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 2: Politics contributor, joined today by Alvin Jordan, Democratic analyst Rock 300 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: Solutions Vice President. There are your optics, Rick, Was it 301 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: the right move here to show up a day before 302 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: Donald Trump? Did the President just get something for himself? 303 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 5: Yeah? I think so. 304 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 7: I think he is really in, even though this is 305 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 7: probably not a campaign event. I don't know, but he's 306 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 7: he's really This is the this is the kind of 307 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 7: campaign Joe Biden wants to wag. He wants to be 308 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 7: amongst the union members. He wants to be talking about 309 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 7: their struggle for fairness. He wants to be talking about 310 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 7: the middle class and the pressure they've been under. And 311 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 7: it's a huge change of message, change of pace for him, 312 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 7: and it fits who Joe Biden is. So as you 313 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 7: can hear from the clip, he sounds really comfortable talking 314 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 7: about Biden for their rights as blue collar workers. So 315 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 7: you know, it is going to stress out some of 316 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 7: those people who would prefer him to stay in the 317 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 7: White House and campaign from the Rose Garden. But I 318 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 7: think he's out there now and he's comfortable, and I 319 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 7: wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't start doing this more often. 320 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: It'll be a picket line campaign. I guess, Alvin, what 321 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 2: do you think, Alvin about Rick's point that this is 322 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: kind of really the beginning of the Biden reelection campaign? 323 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 2: Does it begin today? 324 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 6: It has to write? I think just the fact that 325 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 6: the president is there shows the sense of urgency that 326 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 6: you know, we found ourselves. And I think, you know, 327 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 6: also the important point to consider is, you know, just 328 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 6: as much as this is about the picket lines themselves, 329 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 6: the real question is who the UAW will endorse next 330 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 6: year for the election, and so I think this is 331 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 6: the perfect place to kick it off in that way. 332 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 6: You know, the many will say that it's a bit 333 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 6: too late in the game, but I think just right 334 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 6: ahead of the former president showing up tomorrow, it definitely 335 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 6: sets the scene. 336 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 2: Alvin. Isn't the first move Republicans make here is putting 337 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 2: an ad together of Joe Biden with the leaders of 338 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: all the big three. I asked Congressman Kilde about this earlier. 339 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 2: He spent a lot of time over the past couple 340 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 2: of years with executives like Mary Barrow, the leaders of 341 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 2: Ford and Stillantis. I guess we used to call Chrysler 342 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: he's brought him to the White House, he's gone to Detroit. 343 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 2: It's really been it seems like pretty productive relationships so far. 344 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be the first thing Republicans remind us of? 345 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 6: I mean, I would think so, I think, why not? 346 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 7: Right? 347 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 6: But I do think when you take a step back 348 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 6: and look at it in totality, you realize that it 349 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 6: really is a bit of a tightrope, if you will. 350 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 6: And I think that, you know, just as much as 351 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 6: their support for kind of our our labor president, if 352 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 6: you will, and his kind of staunch support of unions, uh, 353 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 6: you know, historically, I think there has to be you know, 354 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 6: room for you know, kind of the look ahead as 355 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 6: far as where the country is going relative to to EV. 356 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 6: And I think, you know, part of the reason why 357 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 6: we'll probably hear you know, President Biden making such you know, 358 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 6: kind of quick and nimble remarks is for the sole 359 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 6: fact that the talking points can't sway too far in 360 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 6: one way or the other, because, you know, let's not 361 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 6: kid ourselves. We still are talking about a massive switch 362 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 6: to to EV that's already underway, and so I don't 363 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 6: necessarily think that that one kind of outweighs the other 364 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 6: when when you look at it from a business perspective, 365 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 6: at least. 366 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: Rick Davis speak to the contrast. Now, what's going to 367 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 2: happen tomorrow. Donald Trump's going to go to Detroit. It's 368 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 2: going to be more of a prime time more of 369 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 2: a formal address. Joe Biden's standing in in a parking 370 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 2: lot or something with these guys with a bullhorn. And 371 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: I'm sure that this is all deliberate. Donald Trump's going 372 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 2: to do his normal thing. I suspect a lot of 373 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 2: people show up. But what is his message here to 374 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: compete with what we just saw and heard, knowing that 375 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 2: that pay gap among workers versus executives in the Big 376 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 2: Three existed during his presidency. 377 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 7: Yeah, well, he'll ignore history and he'll queue off of 378 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 7: what Joe Biden's saying today. Right, He'll take everything that 379 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 7: Joe Biden said as to the plight of the unions 380 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 7: and say, Joe Biden's responsible for that. He's the reason 381 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 7: that the middle class is on your pinch. His inflation 382 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 7: is the reason that you're spending powers reduced. He's the 383 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 7: reason gas prices are going up through the roof. I 384 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 7: mean like he's just going to unload on the guy, 385 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 7: and probably that would be sort of a normal campaign approach, 386 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 7: but I'm sure he'll throw in all kinds of other 387 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 7: crazy stuff because I'm must say, I mean, the Donald 388 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 7: Trump campaign doesn't disappoint when it comes to up in 389 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 7: the ante on crazy. So we'll be talking about all 390 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 7: kinds of interesting things that Donald Trump has said and 391 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 7: in contrast to what I think is probably a pretty 392 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 7: sober debate by his GOP opponents going on at the 393 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 7: same time. And so who do you think the media 394 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 7: is going to cover that crazy? And I think that's 395 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 7: exactly what Donald Trump has in mind. 396 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 2: Well, you you went there. Let's talk about the debate 397 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 2: for a moment. That's going to be the counter programming 398 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 2: tomorrow night. Asa Hutchinson did not make the stage, so 399 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: the field is winnowed by one. I'm guessing tomorrow night 400 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: is not a good night to be round Santas Alvin, what. 401 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 6: Do you think, honestly, I don't know that it hurts tomorrow, 402 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 6: To be honest, I really think that we're talking about 403 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 6: the race for SACON at this point. At this point, 404 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 6: and so honestly, as the nation tunes in, I think 405 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 6: it'll be just you know, who's going to be, you know, 406 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 6: the opposing figure when we all you know, kind of 407 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 6: get get down to the nitty gritty if you will. 408 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 6: And so I don't necessarily know tomorrow if if it 409 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 6: is you know, kind of bad to be, you know 410 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 6: Ron Decantis or or you know, Governor Chris Christy or 411 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 6: whoever you want to throw in there. I think whoever 412 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 6: is able to kind of capture, you know, those kind 413 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 6: of quick sound bites that are able to be shared 414 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 6: over the days following. Well, of course, you know, kind 415 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 6: of help themselves. But you know, it just it never 416 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 6: it never hurts to to you know, kind of move 417 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 6: the needle in that way. But you know, when we 418 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 6: look at it, Trump is so far and head of 419 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 6: the feel in that way that I really think that tomorrow, 420 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 6: you know, barring some type of you know, curveball or theatrics, 421 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 6: you know, it really is just kind of window dressing, 422 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 6: if we're being honest about it. 423 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 2: Well, it seems to me that you know, at least 424 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 2: in most polls, Ron de Santis remains in seconds. So 425 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a dogpile on Ron as 426 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: you put it once, Rick, or if it's a different 427 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 2: story tomorrow. But listen to Tonald Trump at a speed. 428 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 2: Yesterday he's talking about this upcoming debate and this is 429 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: actually on Fox, and he's telling people not to watch 430 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 2: the debate on Fox. Here we go. They you ought 431 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 2: to stop wasting the time. 432 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 9: You know, they're wasting a lot of time with these 433 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 9: ridiculous debates that nobody's watching. Their last debate was the 434 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 9: lowest rated debate in history. 435 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 2: That's a good. 436 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 9: Compliment, is it? 437 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: Now? 438 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 9: What was I doing, Marjorie? I was someplace else, wasn't 439 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 9: I have? I was doing another interview. We had two 440 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 9: hundred and seventy one million people listening to the Tucker 441 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 9: Carlson interview. 442 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 2: That's an old time. They love it. 443 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 10: So here we are back in the thick of campaign, 444 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 10: right we are. 445 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 2: Just Ana Parino jumps in and they go to something else. Rick, 446 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 2: This I suspect is not helping Fox. But is there 447 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 2: some truth to what Donald Trump said? 448 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: Here? 449 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 2: I mean, who's watching this thing tomorrow? 450 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 5: Yeah? How happy is Rupert Murdoch to have retired just now? Yeah? 451 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 7: I mean doesn't care whose show he's on. It's the 452 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 7: Donald Trump hour whenever he's on TV. And you've got 453 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 7: to take whatever he gives you and look, I mean 454 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 7: he's it's smart on his part. Don't watch that debate. 455 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 7: As Alvin said, it's a fight for second. Who cares 456 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 7: second doesn't win, and he's got some good talking points 457 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 7: because nobody's really challenged him. And now Asa Hutchinson's not 458 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 7: even going to be into debate. He's one of the 459 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 7: most vociferous critics of Trump. We'll see what Christine does 460 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 7: to try and take advantage of the one percent that 461 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 7: Asa had to maybe try and get them on board 462 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 7: with his campaign. But I would say it's not for 463 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 7: not pulls our shrinking on Donald Trump in Iowa, New Hampshire, 464 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 7: that's where the campaign actually is occurring, not in the 465 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 7: other forty eight states. And you do see some movement 466 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 7: by Nicki Haley in the most recent poll overtaken Ron 467 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 7: DeSantis in New Hampshire. There's life out there, and so 468 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 7: it's too soon to turn off the tube. It's too 469 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 7: soon to be over confident by Donald Trump. But you're 470 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 7: never going to change that. But I do think it 471 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 7: will be interesting to see exactly what happens tomorrow night. 472 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: It sure will. I don't know what Joe Biden's going 473 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: to start doing a counter program these things. But we 474 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 2: can have that conversation on another day with Frick and 475 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 2: Alvin coming up next. Calls for Senator Bob Menendez to 476 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 2: resign grow ever louder and a very important voice from 477 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 2: New Jersey has joined those calls, and we haven't even 478 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 2: talked shutdown with our panelneck. So stay with us. 479 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 480 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 481 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on 482 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 483 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 2: Well, bad situation apparently just got a lot worse for 484 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: Senator Bob Menendez, just indicted, of course, days ago on 485 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 2: federal corruption charges. We've had, I don't know what it was, 486 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: nine or ten, eleven the most recent count of senators 487 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 2: criticizing Bob Menendez calling for his resignation. But the big 488 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 2: one just drops. As you've been hearing on Bloomberg, Senator 489 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: Corey Booker called on his fellow New Jersey Democrat to 490 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 2: step down. Didn't say anything in front of a camera 491 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 2: or a microphone, but out with a statement quote the 492 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 2: details of the allegations against Senator Menendez are of such 493 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: a nature that the faith and trust of New Jerseyans, 494 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 2: as well as those he must work with in order 495 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 2: to be effective, have been shaken to the core. He 496 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 2: goes on to say, stepping down is not an admission 497 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 2: of guilt, but an acknowledgment that holding public office often 498 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 2: demands tremendous sacrifices at great personal cost. To here we 499 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: are said, he was ready yesterday for any cost, it seemed, 500 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 2: Senator Benendez. 501 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 11: For thirty years, I have withdrawn thousands of dollars in 502 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 11: cash from my personal savings account, which I have kept 503 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 11: for emergencies and because of the history of my family 504 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 11: facing confiscation in Cuba. Now this may seem old fashioned, 505 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 11: but these were moneies drawing from my personal savings account 506 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 11: based on the income that I have lawfully derived over 507 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 11: those thirty years. 508 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:18,199 Speaker 2: Stuffed in pockets in clothing, no mention of the golden bars. 509 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 2: As we reassemble our panel, Rick Davis is joining us. 510 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 2: If you're with us on YouTube, wouldn't you like to 511 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 2: be where Rick is? In sunny Arizona. Bloomberg Politics contributor 512 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 2: Republican strategist Alvin Jordan's backed Democratic analysts from rock solutions. Rick, 513 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 2: I've never heard of anything quite like this, just going 514 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: back through yesterday's news briefing, but this update now from 515 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 2: Corey Booker. Is Bob an Endez done well? 516 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 5: He's certainly on the way to be done. 517 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 7: I mean, it is quite unusual for other members of 518 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 7: the United States Senate, the probably most exclusive club on 519 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 7: the face of the earth, to criticize other members of 520 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 7: the Senate, and so this is a major departure from 521 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 7: the normal decorum. 522 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 5: The deference that has shown. And I would say Corey Booker, very. 523 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 7: Popular Democratic senator from New Jersey, carries a lot of 524 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 7: influence in that state, and I am sure they are 525 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 7: thinking about how to defend this seat in the upcoming 526 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 7: elections because Menendez was up and who's going to be running. 527 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 7: Can't imagine a scenario where Center Menendez is able to 528 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 7: successfully defend a seat under this cloud. 529 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 2: I'll ask you the same thing, Alvin, is is it 530 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 2: curtains for Bob Menendez? 531 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 6: For sure? I think you know, if we're taking a 532 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 6: pole of when you can you know, tell or determine 533 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 6: when when it's over, it's when you look around and 534 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 6: your you know, kind of top allies are coming out 535 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 6: to say, hey, I think I think it's just time 536 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 6: to step down, and even with the window addressing if 537 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 6: it's not in a mission of guild, and we all 538 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 6: understand that, but the optics are what they are, and 539 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 6: at this point, you know, if it's not over, it 540 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 6: will be very very shortly. 541 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 2: He says, he's going nowhere. Rick, what happens if three 542 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: four months go by and the Senate, you know, kind 543 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 2: of has its own George Santos, Does everyone move on? 544 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 5: No? I think this is going to linger. 545 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 7: He was able to sort of get through a previous indictment, 546 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 7: he was ultimately not convicted and survived it. But I 547 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 7: think this is significantly different. I think this is salacious 548 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 7: in the storyline, and that's going to stick with him. 549 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 5: And I think that it's going to be up to the. 550 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 7: Leadership Democratic leadership to put heat on him to say, look, 551 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 7: you're an important guy, you've done well. You need to 552 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 7: defend yourself in court, not in a re election. You 553 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 7: need to step aside so we can run somebody who 554 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 7: can hold that seat, because that is a critical seat 555 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 7: for the Democra a majority in the Senate. 556 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 2: I haven't asked either of you guys about what's going 557 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: on in the House, never mind the Senate when it 558 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 2: comes to a potential shutdown, this these questions. I feel 559 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: insane at this point asking people every day about this, 560 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 2: but there's apparently no solution in time. There just isn't 561 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 2: enough time legislatively speaking, here to avoid a shutdown. Alvin, 562 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,479 Speaker 2: is that your expectation for Saturday at midnight? 563 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 6: It sure seems like we're on the way to it, 564 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 6: you know, as we look around with you know, just 565 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 6: how it's played out with you know, the House being 566 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 6: sent home last week and brought back this week, We're 567 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 6: we're really just running out of time. I mean, you know, 568 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 6: there are only so many hours in a day, and 569 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 6: the conversations that have been had up to this point 570 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 6: have proved to be you know, completely empty in that way, 571 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 6: and I think where we are is at a point of, 572 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 6: you know, if the shutdown indeed happens, that you know, 573 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 6: we're really you know, just looking solely at House Republicans 574 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 6: in that way, as we've completely just not not been 575 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 6: efficient in our talks. And again, you know, there there's 576 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 6: no need for any any policy here. We just need 577 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 6: to you know, find a solution. And I don't think 578 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 6: that that is going to happen in time. 579 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, even if it showed up today, 580 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 2: there's not enough time to get all of this done. 581 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 2: It appears, Rick, there's talking. We discussed this with Congressman 582 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 2: Killed the earlier in the hour, the Senate delivering a 583 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: continuing resolution a stopgap bill to the House at some 584 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 2: point before the end of the week. Chuck Schumer's moving 585 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 2: on that today. It's also been suggested that Speaker McCarthy 586 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 2: needs to let things shut down just to curry favor, 587 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 2: let some of the bad blood out of the House 588 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 2: before he deals with things and starts working with Democrats 589 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 2: to pass a CR. Is that how this ends? 590 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 6: It might. 591 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 5: There's obviously not a clear endgame for the Speaker. 592 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 7: Every avenue he's tried have been thwarded by different members 593 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 7: of his caucus on the far right. 594 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 5: And so I think he's in a trap position. 595 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 7: I think your interview with Dan Kilde you remember the 596 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 7: Ways of me as a Budget Committee was really timely 597 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 7: because I think he has actually the right idea. Pick 598 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 7: up the phone and call Hakim Jefferies. He can actually 599 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 7: help you pass all of this stuff by Saturday's deadline. 600 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 7: But you can't spend all your time negotiating with Matt 601 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 7: Gatz if you expect to get this done. 602 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 5: So there is a pathway. 603 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 7: It's just a question as to whether or not the 604 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 7: Speaker has come to the end of his rope, because 605 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 7: even if you get through this with a short time 606 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 7: shutting down the government, you still have to pass all 607 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 7: these spending bills and you're right back into the fire. 608 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 7: And so that's a big question for me, is whether 609 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 7: or not this is a Bayner type exit where he 610 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 7: gets his spending done and then exit the stage and 611 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 7: leave the chaos caucus to itself. 612 00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 2: Is there anyone else to take that job? 613 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 7: Well, there's always somebody who wants to be Speaker, and 614 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 7: my guess is probably not his Number two Steven Scales. 615 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 5: He's fighting cancer right now. 616 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 7: But there are a lot of talented people who've served 617 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 7: in his group, and any one of them could step 618 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 7: up without the deal that exists that allows one person 619 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 7: to call in the question his leadership. 620 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 2: Amazing. Rick Davis and Alvin Jordan, great conversation today. They're 621 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 2: back with us for some final thoughts. Next here on 622 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 2: the Fastest Show in Politics, I'm Joe Matthew In Washington, 623 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 2: where there are clouds hanging over the Capitol. 624 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 625 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 626 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 627 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 628 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: flagship New York station just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 629 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 2: I look back to where we were at this time yesterday. 630 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 2: Little has changed with regard to shut down politics. But 631 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 2: we saw history in the making, at least briefly with 632 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 2: President Biden. We didn't know exactly what the choreography for 633 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 2: this whole thing would be, but he did get on 634 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: the picket line, so to speak, grabbed a bullhorn, yep, 635 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 2: made good on his promise, and based on what we're reading, 636 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 2: made history indeed. 637 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 12: And that's what Sean Fain had to say. This is 638 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 12: the first time a sitting US president has done this, 639 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 12: and that's exactly what Biden did. He had some pretty 640 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,720 Speaker 12: supportive words for union members. 641 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 2: Sure did. 642 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 8: Let's listen, U aw you sved the automobile industry back 643 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 8: of two of the H fours made a lot of 644 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 8: sacondviics gave him a lot, and the companies were in 645 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 8: trouble and now they're doing incredibly well. And guess what 646 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 8: you should be doing incredibly well too. 647 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 2: He says, they need to step up for us, Kaylee, 648 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 2: and he sure sounded like a union leaders. Yes there 649 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 2: you are, Yes, you say so. It's in us versus 650 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 2: the when you put it like that. But I've been 651 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 2: making the point or at least reminding people the number 652 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 2: of times he had the leaders of the Big Three 653 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 2: at the White House to help forward the transition to 654 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 2: EVS and thus Bidenomics. So what's the next phone call 655 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 2: with Mary bar are going to be? 656 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 6: Like? 657 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 12: That's a really good question. This is the conundrum for 658 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 12: the Biden administration. On the one hand, this president wants 659 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 12: to be both the most pro union and history. On 660 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 12: the other hand, he wants to be a climate president 661 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 12: and advanced his EV agenda and a transition to electric 662 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 12: vehicles powered by clean energy. So it's very difficult when 663 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 12: you have the company saying, on the one hand, we 664 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 12: can't afford this what they're asking for. The President was 665 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,760 Speaker 12: asked at the picket line if he thought the UAW 666 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 12: should get a forty percent raise. He said, yes, but 667 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 12: you need automakers to be able to afford to invest 668 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 12: extra profits into advancing technology, like when it comes to EV's. 669 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 2: We spoke earlier in the program with Congressman Dan Kildey, 670 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 2: a Democrat from Michigan, who was on the picket line 671 00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 2: two days ago and didn't even try to wager on 672 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 2: how long the strike might go for, but seems to believe, 673 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 2: in fact believes very strongly that these are not competing mandates. 674 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,760 Speaker 2: If you will. We talk a lot about the FEDS 675 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 2: dual mandate, and the President's got his own. Yeah, support 676 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 2: union labor and transition to evs, and they're bumping into 677 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 2: each other. 678 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 12: Yeah, it's a you want your cake and to eat 679 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 12: it too. And of course you had the likes of 680 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 12: Transportation Secretary Pete Buddha Judge over the weekend saying this 681 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 12: should be a win win, everybody should win. I guess 682 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 12: it's just a question of if everybody can. 683 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, put as we bring in Sharon Block, I've 684 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 2: been looking forward to this conversation. I know you have 685 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 2: two Kaylee, Professor of Practice and executive director at the 686 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 2: Center for Labor and adjust Economy at Harvard Law, with 687 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 2: quite a resume, former member of the National Labor Relations 688 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 2: Board and former senior advisor of the Biden Harris transition team, 689 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 2: and Sharon has one foot set in the future here 690 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,439 Speaker 2: as we look at an evolving workforce. Sharon, it's great 691 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 2: to have you welcome to Bloomberg. Based on what we're 692 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 2: just saying, saying, what do you make of this, this 693 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 2: dual mandate for this president to support union labor and 694 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,839 Speaker 2: the transition to EV's. Are they not arguing with each 695 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 2: other now? 696 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 10: And I think, you know, Joe Biden is the president 697 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 10: to really show how they work together, because they're both 698 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 10: incredibly important to him. And I think that one way 699 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 10: to think about it is his vision for the EV 700 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 10: future is a future where it doesn't come at the 701 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 10: expense of workers, but that workers have a voice in 702 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 10: how we make this transition. I think we've heard Sean Fain, 703 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,720 Speaker 10: president of UAW, say over and over again he doesn't 704 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 10: want to stop the move to EV's, but he wants 705 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 10: to make sure that his members have a say in 706 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 10: how it comes about. And so I think, you know, 707 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 10: President Biden just sort of he personifies the fact that 708 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,839 Speaker 10: workers have to win the EV future and they're only 709 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 10: going to be able to do that if they've got 710 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 10: a meaningful seat at the tape ball, and that's I 711 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 10: think what the strike is A is a lot of 712 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 10: what the strike is about. 713 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 12: And of course, Professor, it was Biden that was there 714 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 12: with the UAW today, tomorrow it's going to be former 715 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 12: President Trump. And I'd like to call attention to something 716 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 12: the former president posted on True Social earlier. This is 717 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 12: the quote, the only thing Biden could say today that 718 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 12: would help the striking autoworkers is to announce the immediate 719 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 12: termination of his ridiculous ev mandate. Anything else is just 720 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 12: a feeble and insulting attempt to distract American labor from 721 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 12: this vicious Biden betrayal. What's your response to that? 722 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 10: You know, I don't really want to respond directly to 723 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 10: the former president. I don't even understand what that means. 724 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 10: You know, UAW members live in this world, so they 725 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 10: are also living with the impact of the climate crisis. 726 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 10: So it's in everybody's interest for us to make progress 727 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,959 Speaker 10: in addressing the climate crisis. UAW members and the rest 728 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 10: of us too. So I think the President key, I'd 729 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 10: like to focus on what I think and and Biden 730 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,240 Speaker 10: wanted to accomplish by coming to Detroit today, by coming 731 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 10: to the picket line, which is to signal with these 732 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 10: workers that he sees the importance of their voice in 733 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 10: this future. And even more importantly, Joe Biden was the 734 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 10: pres in the White House part of the administration when 735 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,839 Speaker 10: the UAW made these incredible sacrifices to save the auto industry, 736 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 10: and so it just makes sense that he's now standing 737 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 10: with them and saying, you know what, they deserve to 738 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 10: share in the success too. And there's such a through 739 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:40,879 Speaker 10: line for this president from those really difficult days at 740 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 10: the beginning of the Obama administration to today with a 741 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 10: thriving auto industry, and as the president who's done more 742 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 10: to address the climate crisis than any other president. It's 743 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 10: just he really does just stand at the intersection of 744 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 10: these historical trends. I think he deserves great credit for 745 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 10: coming to the picket line today and for continuing to 746 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 10: press for this transition to inn ev future, but having 747 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 10: it be a just transition. 748 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 2: Why mandate that transition? Though Sharon as opposed to allowing 749 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 2: the industry to move in that direction on its own, 750 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 2: he's had partners in the leaders of the big three, 751 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 2: and some would suggest that he's playing both sides of 752 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 2: the fence here. 753 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 10: Well, I mean, I think if you look at the 754 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 10: legislation that's passed, the Inflation Reduction Act, we've got, he's 755 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 10: provided a lot of incentives for these companies to make 756 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 10: this transition. They're each going to do it in their all, 757 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 10: in their own way. This is not a one size 758 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 10: fits all transition. But we do have an incredibly urgent situation, 759 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 10: as we've all lived through this summer. We need to 760 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 10: address the climate crisis. And the President and worked with 761 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 10: members of Congress who supported the Inflation Reduction Act to 762 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 10: do it in a way that's achievable, that will accommodate 763 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,399 Speaker 10: the company's interests, and through the strike, I think we'll 764 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 10: make sure that it accommodates the worker's interests too. 765 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 12: You know, Professor, the ev issue isn't the only thing 766 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 12: at play here in these issues. In these negotiations between 767 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,320 Speaker 12: the union and automakers, there's a number of things that 768 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 12: they have raised, including just job security more generally, as 769 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,399 Speaker 12: you see the evolution of technology, not just in terms 770 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 12: of if it's powered by an internal combustion engine or 771 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 12: a battery, but just technology, technology evolving to the extent 772 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 12: that workers who had jobs in the past may not 773 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 12: be looking at those same jobs in the future. How 774 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 12: do you guarantee security in existing jobs instead of focusing 775 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,760 Speaker 12: on retraining workers for new ones, for example. How should 776 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 12: we be thinking about that balance? 777 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 10: I mean, I think balance is the right word. I 778 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,720 Speaker 10: mean that is how uh you can tackle the future. 779 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 10: We need a balance between helping workers who want to 780 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 10: stay in the industry, who want to learn new skill sets, 781 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 10: to continue to be evolving members of these companies and 782 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 10: supporting them as they go forward. But there are also 783 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 10: workers who have invested a tremendous amount of their lives 784 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 10: in these companies, and so you need to balance that 785 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 10: also with some basic level of security to sort of 786 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 10: recognize that investment that workers have made in these companies. 787 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 10: This is an industry. I think the collective bargaining relationships 788 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,360 Speaker 10: between the UAW and the auto companies go back like 789 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 10: one hundred years. Think about all the technological changes that 790 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 10: this industry has gone through over those hundred years, and 791 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 10: they've figured out how to make it work through a 792 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 10: very mature collective bargaining relationship. So I think we're going 793 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 10: to see them figure it out time too. 794 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 2: You wear a couple of different hats in this conversation, 795 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 2: Sharon Block one of them, as I mentioned as a 796 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,840 Speaker 2: former member of the National Labor Relations Board. I wonder 797 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 2: what you think of the distance on some of the 798 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 2: other issues, particularly retirement. When the union is coming back around, 799 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 2: we're trying to advance. We're talking about advancing into the 800 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,879 Speaker 2: future of electric vehicles, but they want to go back 801 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 2: to an eighty style pension plan and that appears to 802 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 2: be a deal breaker for the Big Three? Is that 803 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 2: a bridge too far? If you're trying to get people 804 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 2: to the table and make a deal, would you tell 805 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,760 Speaker 2: them to pull back on that request? 806 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 10: Well, I would certainly never tell them what to put 807 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 10: on the table or take off the table. These are 808 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 10: very complicated collective bargaining relationships with a lot of moving pieces, 809 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 10: and so it's really hard to isolate one particular proposal 810 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,919 Speaker 10: from all the others to figure out how it's going 811 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 10: to play out. The union's going to have to figure 812 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,840 Speaker 10: out what's most important to it. The companies are going 813 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 10: to have to figure out what's most important to them. 814 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 10: No party comes to a collective bargaining situation expecting to 815 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 10: get everything that they ask for. So I think you're 816 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 10: going to see some give and take. You're going to 817 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 10: see some proposals fall off the table or you know, 818 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 10: be modified. But again, these are parties that know each 819 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 10: other really well. They've got a long history. They have 820 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 10: made historic decisions together in the past, and so I 821 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 10: have confidence in their ability to negotiate through through this 822 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 10: you know, historic time. But again, if you think about 823 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 10: one hundred year collective bargaining relationship, you know they've got 824 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:46,280 Speaker 10: a good track record. 825 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 12: Well, and this isn't the only example of collective bargaining 826 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 12: and action that we are are viewing in real time 827 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 12: at the moment. We of course all awoke to the 828 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 12: news yesterday or Sunday evening that the Writers Guild find 829 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 12: reached an agreement with Studios, at least a tentative one. 830 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 12: At the heart of that issue was another technological advancement. 831 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 12: It was about AI. How should we be thinking about 832 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 12: AI and the American worker sharre. 833 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 10: You know, I think it's a fascinating issue and I'm 834 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 10: really looking forward to seeing more detail about how the 835 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:25,319 Speaker 10: WGA and the studios tackled that issue and got to 836 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 10: an agreement. I think there are a lot of workers 837 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 10: out there who, especially over the past few months over 838 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,360 Speaker 10: the summer, as we're seeing sort of all of these 839 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 10: AI products accelerating and really evolving at a very rapid pace. 840 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 10: I think a lot of people are sitting out there 841 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,880 Speaker 10: thinking how are their jobs going to be impacted by AI? 842 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 10: I think including workers who've probably never really thought about 843 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 10: themselves as vulnerable before. And so I think there's going 844 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 10: to be a lot of interest and attention to how 845 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 10: this issue was revolved was resolved within this collective bargaining relationship. 846 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 10: But I think it's also really going to signal to 847 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 10: a broader swath of the public the collective bargaining is 848 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,799 Speaker 10: a really important way of having a say in your 849 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,399 Speaker 10: own future. And I'll be really interested to see if 850 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:29,360 Speaker 10: there's an expansion an increase in interest in collective bargaining, 851 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,399 Speaker 10: because we're seeing in all these different sectors ways that 852 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,520 Speaker 10: in the collective bargaining relationship they're resolving really knotty problems 853 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 10: about the future and technology. 854 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 2: Sharon, I just saw a tweet, if I guess we 855 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,800 Speaker 2: don't call it that an X whatever from Elon Musk 856 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,279 Speaker 2: as we're talking here, and he says they want a 857 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,160 Speaker 2: forty percent pay raise in a thirty two hour work week. 858 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 2: Referring to the UA doubd here sure way to drive 859 00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:00,839 Speaker 2: GM forward and Chrysler bankrupt. He says, you know, some 860 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,719 Speaker 2: people think Elon Musk in this non union approach in 861 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,440 Speaker 2: a right to work state is the future, and that 862 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 2: company's been doing pretty well. Where is he wrong? 863 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 10: I think he's wrong in almost every respect. First of all, 864 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 10: I think it's really inappropriate to question the loyalty of 865 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 10: the UAW and its members to these companies, as if 866 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 10: what they want is to drive these companies into bankruptcy again. 867 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,759 Speaker 10: It's not that long ago that the UAW members made 868 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:36,600 Speaker 10: these great sacrifices to save these companies. So to suggest 869 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,960 Speaker 10: that they're going to push for a contract again when 870 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,760 Speaker 10: you put all the different pieces of the contract together, 871 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,839 Speaker 10: that's going to bankrupt the companies is just wrong. It's 872 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,680 Speaker 10: wrong to suggest that, and there's no basis for it. 873 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,240 Speaker 10: So I would flip though this situation back on Elon 874 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 10: Musk and say what's going to happen at tesla if 875 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:03,760 Speaker 10: and when there's a good agreement in this strike and 876 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,080 Speaker 10: his workers see that they can get a better deal 877 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:07,720 Speaker 10: if they dot collective bargaining reports. 878 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,360 Speaker 2: This is a great question. We've addressed this before, Kaylie. 879 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,319 Speaker 2: They may feel quite emboldened, certainly after what we saw 880 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:14,000 Speaker 2: at UPS. 881 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:14,399 Speaker 6: Yeah. 882 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 12: Is there a contagion effect. 883 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 2: Right, Sharon Block, many thanks for the insights with us 884 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:24,720 Speaker 2: here today on Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the Sound 885 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,320 Speaker 2: On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, 886 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,360 Speaker 2: at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts, 887 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,400 Speaker 2: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, 888 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:38,720 Speaker 2: DC at one pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.