Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Dune Done.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: I am your host, Kara Klank and I'm Liza Trigger,
Speaker 2: your other host.
Speaker 3: We talked SVU crimes. We have celeb guests.
Speaker 2: It's a jam packed episode, like always, fan favorite episode,
Speaker 2: can't wait, but I have huge news. What So I
Speaker 2: went to our local dive bar yesterday, you know, Johnny's,
Speaker 2: and with a few of my friends and it was
Speaker 2: bingo night and I won bingo twice. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: I love bingo. I want dominoes and then my own
Speaker 2: little like bingo set. But the dominoes were such a
Speaker 2: good prize. But yeah, I won once and everyone was mad,
Speaker 2: and then I won twice and then people were kind
Speaker 2: of annoyed, but.
Speaker 3: They were like, this is rigged.
Speaker 2: But I was just lucky and fun. And she made
Speaker 2: my vodka soda so citrusy. I fucking love it there.
Speaker 2: But again I was home again by like ten something.
Speaker 2: I was in bed by eleven BM.
Speaker 1: Oh my the world, this is crazy, A new girl.
Speaker 1: It's a new person. I went and did a show
Speaker 1: last night. But then I was home and everybody was
Speaker 1: a buzz on the internet, and I know, listen, we're
Speaker 1: always in the time machine now, but so this will
Speaker 1: be old news.
Speaker 3: But were weird? If we didn't mention it, you would
Speaker 3: be why.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Marisha Carte did last night win the People's Choice
Speaker 1: Award for Best Dramatic Actress or something amazing. She looked great.
Speaker 1: Everyone's like, look at her hair. I'm like, yes, those
Speaker 1: are beautiful extensions. Her hair is like down past her tits. Practically,
Speaker 1: it's wild. She looks great. She's giving a speech where
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. I didn't watch the show.
Speaker 1: I'm only looking at clips, but like I know she's
Speaker 1: talking about pro choice stuff because she's like, wow, another
Speaker 1: great word is choice, like talking about people's choice, but
Speaker 1: obviously talking about abortion. And then behind her, Kathy Hilton,
Speaker 1: who I must have presented her with the award, whips
Speaker 1: out her purse and starts putting on lipstick behind Marishka
Speaker 1: Hargan day as she's accepting.
Speaker 3: It's so rude that it almost.
Speaker 1: Circles back around to being hilarious, like she's just the
Speaker 1: most clueless woman on the planet, Like, who even has
Speaker 1: their purse? Like when you go present an award, When
Speaker 1: you see people at award shows, they have their purses
Speaker 1: on the red carpet. Maybe they're not they don't have
Speaker 1: them on stage with them.
Speaker 2: You're also not doing lip gloss, and people are trying
Speaker 2: to make excuses like maybe she didn't think the camera
Speaker 2: would be on her, and it's like you're standing right
Speaker 2: behind the it's also distracting.
Speaker 3: It's so rude.
Speaker 2: It's Yeah, instead of all eyes being focused on this
Speaker 2: speech and this person winning, they're looking at you.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I just don't think it's all innocent and clueless. I
Speaker 2: think she's an evil bitch.
Speaker 3: Like you think she's doing that shit on purpose.
Speaker 1: Well, I think he's pro life and she did, and
Speaker 1: she just wanted to like do something instead of listening
Speaker 1: to her talk about pro choice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like, inconsiderate people are bad people. So even
Speaker 2: if like clueless and inconsiderate, are they the same.
Speaker 3: No, I think she's inconsiderate.
Speaker 2: It's like you don't think someone is winning an like
Speaker 2: you're on stage with a person giving a speech, Why
Speaker 2: are you digging in your purse and starting the lip gloss?
Speaker 2: It's inconsiderate, Like, I don't think it's just like, so's funny.
Speaker 2: She also kidnapped her daughter in the middle of the
Speaker 2: night and threw her into a juvie jail, So like,
Speaker 2: I don't see past that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't seen that at all, But like I
Speaker 1: I honestly was thinking about it how I thought Marishka
Speaker 1: would take it, and I was like, I bet Marishka
Speaker 1: will think.
Speaker 2: This is funny. I'll defend her and she could laugh
Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, like it is crazy. Well, I think
Speaker 2: I'm also taking out my anger for the people who
Speaker 2: are like so everything is just so black and white
Speaker 2: in our culture now where it's just like Lisa Rene
Speaker 2: is evil and Kathy Hilton's an angel, and that kind
Speaker 2: of storyline makes me hate her, even if I don't
Speaker 2: truly you know what I mean, because it makes me
Speaker 2: like she's not an angel, she's I just bet she's
Speaker 2: a pretty terrible person. I dothy, Yeah, yeah, I'm sure, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm sure, but I'm sure doesn't care and it's fine.
Speaker 2: And also if it wasn't like pro choice talk if
Speaker 2: it wasn't about abortion, I don't think i'd be as
Speaker 2: fired up to and be like, oh whatever. But it
Speaker 2: was like right as she was trying to talk about abortion,
Speaker 2: that was like yeah, yeah, but congrats to our queen Marishka.
Speaker 3: I'm glad she won, even though I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't really even know People's Choice Award, like, don't
Speaker 1: worry one. Yeah, it's like all based on people and
Speaker 1: fans and stuff.
Speaker 2: So I think that's kind of cool because Jennifer Aniston,
Speaker 2: I don't think ever won like an Emmy or anything,
Speaker 2: and no one gave her respect, but that bitch cleaned up.
Speaker 2: But the People's Choice she is America's fucking sweetheart. We
Speaker 2: really likes her. I just don't like how much she
Speaker 2: pedals products now and I get it, honeymaker mind, but
Speaker 2: you are probably worth like what five hundred million dollars, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you have a vitamins now and another hairline. It's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know girls she does so and then the
Speaker 2: water uh yeah, but those are just ads. If we're
Speaker 2: talking ads, there's also a VEB. She makes her own products.
Speaker 2: You're saying, yes, oh I didn't realize that. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but you know, why wouldn't we want to sell buy
Speaker 2: what she's selling. Everyone wants to be Jennifer Aston. Oh
Speaker 2: this is just something little that I saw, but I
Speaker 2: really want those big Apple Bluetooth headphones. They look cool
Speaker 2: and I heard their noise canceling, but they're like five
Speaker 2: hundred dollars.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just saw Ali mccowsky wearing them today on Instagram.
Speaker 3: They look hip. Okay, Yeah, Dave Mazzoni is the one
Speaker 3: who got I was.
Speaker 2: Like, ooh, but the big problem is you can't use
Speaker 2: him on a plane, and that's usually where I use
Speaker 2: big ones.
Speaker 3: Oh they don't even have a chord that comes with them.
Speaker 2: They don't. But listen to this. On our last there's
Speaker 2: no cord. But on our last flight that I saw
Speaker 2: a guy in front of me and it's like a
Speaker 2: little attachment that you can plug into the TV screen.
Speaker 2: So I texted Mazzoni immediately he goes, you knew I
Speaker 2: needed this, and that makes me kind of excited for technology.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it like as a Bluetooth you can plug
Speaker 2: into your as.
Speaker 3: You screen out.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I just saw guy using it the other
Speaker 2: day and I was like, oh, hell yeah, well was
Speaker 2: it the guy on the flight. It was the guy
Speaker 2: that kept We were in the lounge of the line
Speaker 2: with him. He was the one in the scooter. It
Speaker 2: was him who had it. It wasn't him, but I
Speaker 2: know him. No, this was like multiple flights ago.
Speaker 1: I saw a guy with this, and I go, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this is amazing because I'm so sick of
Speaker 1: on the airplane, like always pulling my thing out in
Speaker 1: the middle of the movie by accident. Like I would
Speaker 1: love to have my wireless on. So that's cool, That
Speaker 1: is wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the listeners to know that if that's something outside
Speaker 2: of the insane price tag that is keeping you from Bluetooth. Yeah,
Speaker 2: big headphones, there's a there's a compartment.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's like a big the big ticket item you
Speaker 1: ask for this holiday. Speaking of this episode's wide releasing
Speaker 1: on December twentieth, Happy Honkah. We're in the middle of Honkah.
Speaker 1: Happy almost Christmas, Happy everything else that you celebrate. If
Speaker 1: you celebrate something else, hope, happy holidays. Ever this best
Speaker 1: of us for the rest of us. Yeah, what I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know, do you have any holiday thoughts?
Speaker 3: Do I have holiday thoughts?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 2: I love when everyone you know, whether it's Christmas or
Speaker 2: even the Super Bowl, which I'm not even a fan of.
Speaker 3: But I like when everyone's connected.
Speaker 2: Like I like when everyone's doing the same thing at
Speaker 2: the same time, even if it's like a blizzard or
Speaker 2: natural disaster.
Speaker 3: I'm like, we're all connected.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the pandemic in a weird way, was like wow,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm having the same experience as someone in like
Speaker 1: New Zealand, India, like Japan, like all over the world.
Speaker 1: We were all having the same experience of being locked
Speaker 1: in our houses.
Speaker 3: So I know what you mean. Well, I'm still in China.
Speaker 2: I mean those videos of people being dragged out of
Speaker 2: their apartments, I know, I don't.
Speaker 3: I can't. I Hunger Games usk, yeah, it's Hunger Games. Ask.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love Christmas.
Speaker 2: I also am someone that did movies movies for Christmas
Speaker 2: growing up, so like, I love an American Christmas. I
Speaker 2: want the pajamas, I want to lounge, I want to
Speaker 2: watch the movies. I want us stalking like, I love
Speaker 2: it all and I'm doing My good friends invited three
Speaker 2: brunette Jews to their house, so we're gonna just like go.
Speaker 2: I love friend's house and I already pre ordered Magnolia
Speaker 2: banana pudding in cupcakes delivery and my Italian Shircos pastry
Speaker 2: shop cookies to arrive on Christmas Eve. So because everyone
Speaker 2: else is cooking and I'm not, I'm not cooking, So
Speaker 2: I don't cook, and I don't clean, and I don't help.
Speaker 2: But I will spend two hundred dollars on premium desserts
Speaker 2: to be shipped directly to the house.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my that's my step in the game.
Speaker 2: That's what I've always done that as a kid, even
Speaker 2: like I would be like, I'll give you money if
Speaker 2: you go do it, I'll pay for it.
Speaker 3: Like I just don't want to do anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my family loves the kids like to go out
Speaker 1: to a movie on like Christmas night, like the night
Speaker 1: after Christmases, after the meal or whatever, we got to
Speaker 1: a movie, Like I remember we all went to go
Speaker 1: see Django one year. We saw The Favorite a few
Speaker 1: years ago, Like we always go to a movie.
Speaker 2: That's cool, you still do it? Mine is such a
Speaker 2: memory of my past. What would you see this Christmas?
Speaker 2: I don't know what's out the coming out this Christmas.
Speaker 2: Tarantino like releases movies on Christmas. I feel like all
Speaker 2: the time. I so every time someone goes, oh my god,
Speaker 2: this movie is amazing, I go, I have not even
Speaker 2: heard of it. Someone at the bar Astro was like,
Speaker 2: this movie it's the best, it's the best, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I did not even I I haven't even seen one
Speaker 2: ad one tweet, nothing about it.
Speaker 1: And it's like, so it's so different because also like
Speaker 1: movies are coming out for like a week and then streaming,
Speaker 1: you know, like all the like things are coming out,
Speaker 1: Like I heard that movie spirited, that holiday movie was
Speaker 1: very good.
Speaker 3: Well, but you can always watch it, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 1: So that's act like very kind of looking really quick
Speaker 1: to see if I can find anything that's something was.
Speaker 2: Like baby, I love you, or like baby it takes
Speaker 2: to like something Baby I feel But people like Triangle
Speaker 2: of Sadness. I mean, I still want to see Pearl.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen my Halloween movies of this year yet.
Speaker 2: I know that's where I'm a.
Speaker 3: I do want to see that. I do want to
Speaker 3: see the menu that looks.
Speaker 2: Good that that was talked about yesterday at the bar.
Speaker 3: Yeah the menu.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's a dark comedy, yeah comedy, And I.
Speaker 3: Would like to see that. And I can't think.
Speaker 2: Oh, and Casey just did flag us our little ten
Speaker 2: minute thing, which reminded me I did for some reason.
Speaker 2: Whatever go through all of our one star reviews just
Speaker 2: to see to see what's that. And I'd like to say,
Speaker 2: if you don't like the intro or us talking about
Speaker 2: non SVU stuff, you know what you can do fast
Speaker 2: forward it. You don't tux how about that? You don't
Speaker 2: know how to fast forward, you don't know how to
Speaker 2: go ahead. It's like God, they don't stop talking, and
Speaker 2: it's like you just go. I listen to lots of
Speaker 2: podcasts story fast forward through segments I don't love. Sometimes
Speaker 2: I don't even Oh, this crime is not for me.
Speaker 2: I'm actually I'm not gonna listen. I would never go
Speaker 2: and be like whatever, if you don't like the intro
Speaker 2: of our own podcast, fucking fast forward it, I'm sure
Speaker 2: it's none of you that are listening today. My favorite
Speaker 2: was one person like hates the podcast but gave it
Speaker 2: forty six episodes. They gave it forty six tries, which
Speaker 2: is incredible, and it never was good enough.
Speaker 3: It's never love that.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's my favorite thing. But if you do
Speaker 1: like us and you want to come see us live.
Speaker 1: I'm always you know it's me. You're weekly hawking of
Speaker 1: our tour day. We are going to be in Philadelphia
Speaker 1: on January nineteenth, in New York City on the twentieth,
Speaker 1: although I believe that show is sold out, but you
Speaker 1: never know. Sometimes when we post the homework, people will
Speaker 1: trade tickets underneath, so marketing your calendar you might be
Speaker 1: able to get a ticket. The twenty first, we're going
Speaker 1: to be doing two shows in Boston, a four pm
Speaker 1: I believe in a seven pm, and then we're in
Speaker 1: Hartford on the twenty What day am I on twenty second?
Speaker 3: I also forgot. We're in Indianapolis on the twelfth.
Speaker 1: And we just announced we're coming to Vancouver for just
Speaker 1: for laughs Vancouver on February twentieth. I think we'll also
Speaker 1: both be around doing a few stand up shows around
Speaker 1: those dates as well. So all that shit's on, that's
Speaker 1: messed up live dot Com. Guys, go get some tickets,
Speaker 1: Come see us in Canada, come see us in on
Speaker 1: the East Coast and in Indianapolis.
Speaker 2: And it would be fucked up if we did not
Speaker 2: mention Christy Ally. I know she has been questionable with
Speaker 2: her brain and mouth. Uh recently in the past few years,
Speaker 2: but what a superstar. We went a lot to both
Speaker 2: of us comedically, acting, hair, beauty, everything, so yeah, and
Speaker 2: wishing the best for her family, yes for sure, sending like,
Speaker 2: you know, love to her kids.
Speaker 1: And and we just reviewed her book on Chelsea Devonte's
Speaker 1: Celebrity Book Club. If you're interested in remembering Kirsty, go
Speaker 1: back and listen to our episode.
Speaker 3: I mean, you.
Speaker 2: Said it was the worst book ever, and she hated
Speaker 2: it a great book. Chelsea said it was the worst
Speaker 2: she'd read. All these things can be true.
Speaker 1: She can be a bad memoirist and a trumpy scientologist,
Speaker 1: but also a huge part of my childhood, an amazing
Speaker 1: an amazing actress. She was amazing on Cheers. Look who's
Speaker 1: talking all kinds of things. She was huge famously. Yeah
Speaker 1: it takes two. I loved that one.
Speaker 2: And I really love for Richer and Poorer and Tim
Speaker 2: Allen's also become a maniac or could have always been,
Speaker 2: who knows, but the for Richer and Poorer really played
Speaker 2: a lot in the Tragger Household and ours.
Speaker 1: My family was obsessed with a movie called Mad House.
Speaker 1: It was a PG thirteen movie about too many guests
Speaker 1: coming to visit a house at the same time and
Speaker 1: the people going crazy, and it's from nineteen ninety. It's
Speaker 1: her and John Leroquett and s v Alum and it's amazing.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy. But we watched it so much. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it was like on hbolop. We were
Speaker 1: just watching it all the time. Love it was. She
Speaker 1: was truly a hero of mine. She made me want
Speaker 1: to be a single mom. When I watched La Who's talking?
Speaker 1: I was eleven. I didn't know really what being a
Speaker 1: single mom entailed. I just saw who needs a man?
Speaker 1: This looks like fun her and the baby.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh which, oh gosh.
Speaker 2: You know, hopefully by the new year, Kara will be
Speaker 2: caught up on White Lotus.
Speaker 3: Oh, we got to talk about it.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, it's like I just I don't.
Speaker 2: I just listened to Megan Faihie unless Culturistas today too
Speaker 2: in the car and she brought up us for you
Speaker 2: a little bit, which was exciting. Okay, excuse me, well,
Speaker 2: because they were talking about guest starring and if she's
Speaker 2: been on a like this other show, and she went, no,
Speaker 2: my big moment was.
Speaker 3: SVU, So I like that she gave the shout out.
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's get started, because I'm obsessed with this episode.
Speaker 3: This episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this episode's huge, Jess. So you know, you may
Speaker 1: have seen us do this in a live show, but
Speaker 1: I think our recap today is going to be different,
Speaker 1: and we're so excited to bring you this classic Stay tuned.
Speaker 2: Zebras Season ten, episode twenty two.
Speaker 3: We've done this live a couple times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you've seen us do this baby live, still
Speaker 1: listen because I think we're going to have different opinions
Speaker 1: and not opinions, but observations. We will pretty much always
Speaker 1: feel the same about this episode. It's a classic we
Speaker 1: in case you don't know, when we go on tour,
Speaker 1: we do episodes that usually aren't based on a crime.
Speaker 3: We try to do classics.
Speaker 1: But as I was going through a bunch of different
Speaker 1: episode a bunch of our different resources that we used
Speaker 1: to see what stuff is based on, I noticed that
Speaker 1: there is a case that this is based on. So
Speaker 1: we decided to do it for the pod, and we
Speaker 1: got a cool guest. So it's all coming together and
Speaker 1: Zebras is happening when it's supposed to happen. But we've
Speaker 1: done it on the road, and we hope that you
Speaker 1: enjoyed that if you saw it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I yeah, I'm excited. It's it's a pretty guest forward.
Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, a clue, but not too specific
Speaker 2: of a clue. Listen, we open up on rollerbladers that
Speaker 2: are very into safety and guess what, Karen os one
Speaker 2: of the bladers. Yes, the blader is my friend Kevin,
Speaker 2: who is We've known each other. We took UCB classes
Speaker 2: together and we just kind of have stayed in touch,
Speaker 2: like over that we won't talk for a couple of years,
Speaker 2: and then we'll hang out like we've hung out in
Speaker 2: all different cities, will meet up in like we've seen
Speaker 2: each other in Chicago, now in Madison, like we just
Speaker 2: saw him at our live show in Madison.
Speaker 3: Because he is a Broadway baby.
Speaker 1: He tours all over right now in the touring Castuff
Speaker 1: Come from Away, So if you've seen him Come from
Speaker 1: Away in your city, he plays the mayor of the
Speaker 1: town as well as other parts, because everyone plays a
Speaker 1: million parts in the show, but he's the best, and
Speaker 1: he is the one getting to live our dream of
Speaker 1: rollerblading into you know a body.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's helmets knee pads, elbow pads, risk cards,
Speaker 2: and the daughter's pissed. She's like, why do we even
Speaker 2: do this? Like I clearly suck at this. Dad like,
Speaker 2: why can't we do something else? And he's like, we're
Speaker 2: having fun. And then he starts rolling down a hillbridge
Speaker 2: in Central Park. He's not ready for that kind of
Speaker 2: incline and he falls into a bush. And then after
Speaker 2: his daughter pulls him out, they see that he's covered
Speaker 2: in full on blood, but it's not his blood. So
Speaker 2: then it's like the daughter's smart's like, I don't see
Speaker 2: a cut. I would never look for a cut. I
Speaker 2: would just be like, oh, you're bleeding. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I want if she's in nursing school or something.
Speaker 3: That's a good point.
Speaker 2: And then they start looking in the bush. Where's the
Speaker 2: blood coming from? The daughter's shrieks so loud, obviously a
Speaker 2: dead body and from the scream we cut straight to
Speaker 2: Benson and the Stabler on the scene. Stabler is wearing
Speaker 2: a baseball hat and I think it's hot and that's
Speaker 2: that and their first lines in the scene are stucky,
Speaker 2: what's up? And this is a stucky episode? So trigger warning,
Speaker 2: trigger warning, and stucky is played by Noel.
Speaker 3: Gall No is it Noel Gallagher from Oasis? Noel Fisher, Yeah,
Speaker 3: Noel Fisher.
Speaker 1: That would be so funny if it was played by
Speaker 1: one of the guys from Oasis.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't think that's that crazy of a mix up.
Speaker 2: No, it just made me laugh because the Gallagher brothers
Speaker 2: are like these weird brothers that fight each other.
Speaker 3: I know, they're such dorks. They're such dorks.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Noel Fisher, I know him really well from
Speaker 2: Shameless and he's in He's an incredible actor, but this
Speaker 2: is one of the most hated characters of all time,
Speaker 2: and it is what it.
Speaker 1: Is that it shows how much how good he is
Speaker 1: because you want to kill him. But then everybody that
Speaker 1: you meet that like no Zimmer has seen him and
Speaker 1: other stuff like, is obsessed. So all of our comments
Speaker 1: about Stuck you're about Stucky, don't come for us. Noel fisherheads,
Speaker 1: we realize he's a good person.
Speaker 2: So Noel Fisher in Shameless plays this character whose sister
Speaker 2: is no As Ellie Porter, Noah Porter's birth mother. Oh wow,
Speaker 2: so they play siblings. Okay, yeah, they're the Milkovich's cool.
Speaker 1: I've never seen like a second of Shameless, I gotta
Speaker 1: watch it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mickey and Mandy Milkovich. So Stucky starts to fill
Speaker 2: them in and it's early thirties and then he goes,
Speaker 2: just bookoo lacerations. And you told me that's a word
Speaker 2: in French, but I both thought it just says a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I thought it was slang like bookoo bucks Like it
Speaker 2: just always seemed like slang to me. And I just
Speaker 2: thought it was so disrespectful to the dead woman. But
Speaker 2: I guess it is a real French word. I think
Speaker 2: his tone is very disrespectful.
Speaker 1: He's acting way too excited for a woman that has
Speaker 1: many lacerations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, I wrote she's slashed to hell. So
Speaker 2: maybe I'm stucky too, you know what I mean? Maybe
Speaker 2: I'm disrespectful to this a too stucky Yeah, deep stab
Speaker 2: wounds Kansas driver's license. Her name is Rachel, thirty two
Speaker 2: years old. Benson notices she has her wedding rings song,
Speaker 2: so probably not a robbery. Stucky leans down and he
Speaker 2: has his own theory and he's like, what if she's
Speaker 2: in cahoots with the mafia. This is a message. And
Speaker 2: Stabler's like, somebody is seeing zebras and stuck. He's like, huh,
Speaker 2: and Benson explains, if you hear hoof beats in Central Park,
Speaker 2: don't think Zebras. And he points to a guy in
Speaker 2: a horse and is like, do you think this guy
Speaker 2: did it? I think that's funny. So Stabler sighs deeply,
Speaker 2: like you idiot. She just means the answer is usually
Speaker 2: the simplest explanation, and he's like, it's probably a casual
Speaker 2: stranger rape. She fought back, he cut her, but that
Speaker 2: and you know, died of shock. Benson moves the victim's
Speaker 2: arm though, and on her forehead in red blood, it
Speaker 2: says guilty or lipstick. I'm not really sure, but it
Speaker 2: says guilty. And in her hand as a pacifier. Sh
Speaker 2: had a baby with her.
Speaker 3: Fuck.
Speaker 2: So everyone just runs off, starts looking for a baby.
Speaker 2: The baby's in the stroller, alive, and on the baby's
Speaker 2: forehead it says innocent. Benson exclaims, damn, maybe we are
Speaker 2: looking for a zebra credits.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just feel bad for Zebras because they are so cool,
Speaker 2: but they're no one's number one animal.
Speaker 3: I think we talked about this at one of our lives.
Speaker 1: They are so one of the wildest animals when you
Speaker 1: just see them, because I don't understand how that's camouflage anywhere.
Speaker 1: So it's just like when you think of like whoever
Speaker 1: created animals, You're like, wow, whether you believe that's God,
Speaker 1: whether you believe that's evolution. I'm just kind of like,
Speaker 1: how did zebras get in there?
Speaker 2: But I know, but like if I if I was
Speaker 2: going to Safari, I would be like, can't wait to
Speaker 2: see giraffes and elephants, even though zebras are so cool,
Speaker 2: but they're no one's favorite.
Speaker 3: True, You're right, what is it like? No one's like
Speaker 3: can't wait to go to bots and see the zebras.
Speaker 2: It's always just like can't wait to see a lion
Speaker 2: and they look just like cats.
Speaker 3: Who cares about lion? I mean I do, I would
Speaker 3: love it.
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying it's weird that zebras are not
Speaker 2: more popular since they're so beautiful, totally unique. They have
Speaker 2: a lot to bring to the table. Okay, so yeah,
Speaker 2: we open up Zebra's right, we're back. Well, yeah, I
Speaker 2: just know that there is a funny joke about zebras
Speaker 2: from childhood. You know what's white and black and red?
Speaker 3: All over or something like a zebra and a blender
Speaker 3: or something. I was sunburned.
Speaker 1: Zebra, oh oll mine is so violent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the blender going straight to blenders. Crazy.
Speaker 2: We open up back on a nurse holding the baby
Speaker 2: and we hear voices like damn, who would do this?
Speaker 2: And Benson's like, maybe you can tell us. So we
Speaker 2: see that it's the data the baby and the detectives
Speaker 2: are behind him and they ask the guy, did your
Speaker 2: wife have trouble with anybody? And he's like, we don't
Speaker 2: know anybody in New York. I went to a talk
Speaker 2: on hydroponics.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 2: Rachel took Evan to Central Park to take pics, but
Speaker 2: they didn't find a camera and that really upsets him.
Speaker 2: He's like, please, we took photos all week and I
Speaker 2: need those photos. Those are our last photos. Please find
Speaker 2: my camera. We're back on the scene and yay, the
Speaker 2: camera was found, but by Stucky and he's like this
Speaker 2: is a shitty camera. Who gives a shit? And it's like,
Speaker 2: fuck you, bro, not where it's for the pictures, you know.
Speaker 2: So they have to explain to this dumb ass, like so.
Speaker 1: Like zero, if there's bedside manner for a CSU tech
Speaker 1: he has like negative like he just doesn't have any
Speaker 1: common sense.
Speaker 2: Well, I wonder if it's like also a clue to
Speaker 2: his so seopathy or like that he's a psycho that
Speaker 2: in his head, he's not like, oh, the husband would
Speaker 2: like to look at photos of his dead well last
Speaker 2: moments of or on the earth of his wife. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Instead it's like this camera sucks. Was this even worth
Speaker 2: the overtime page? Like he's just not connected to humanity. Well,
Speaker 2: that's why he's a scientist. Most doctors and scientists are
Speaker 2: pretty cut off from Yeah people, Yeah, come out, come
Speaker 2: at me. I believe what I'm saying. Doctors, even your mom, No,
Speaker 2: your mom is so sick. So they recovered most of
Speaker 2: the photos, and nine minutes after the last photo is
Speaker 2: taken is when the rollerbladers called the cops.
Speaker 3: So what happened?
Speaker 2: And Stucky says, if only babies could talk, right, And
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, there's a movie about that, which is
Speaker 2: really good.
Speaker 3: Look who's talking?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the best, one of the best, one of the
Speaker 1: best movies of all time. And you know, famously a
Speaker 1: movie that made me want to be a single mom
Speaker 1: when I was growing up. I love that movie so
Speaker 1: much and I was like, yeah, the dad is an asshole.
Speaker 2: Like I just want to have a baby and have
Speaker 2: me be me and the baby. I love Kircially with
Speaker 2: the baby. I was like, that's it. I'm going to
Speaker 2: be a single mom.
Speaker 1: I mean, I obviously had no idea what that entailed,
Speaker 1: but I was like, take men out of it, me
Speaker 1: and the baby.
Speaker 2: That's so cute. O'Halleran does find a clue in the photo.
Speaker 2: There were a bunch of people in orange vests working
Speaker 2: department and employees. They are out now asking a guy,
Speaker 2: and this man at the park responds to Finn and
Speaker 2: munch is going to their public service guys.
Speaker 3: Finn asks if they're.
Speaker 2: Scales, which means bottom feeder, parasite, low life, con artist type.
Speaker 2: I did look it up and he's like, oh no,
Speaker 2: these are like public and talks boys, fair beats, chill criminals.
Speaker 2: So they ask if any of the people were suspicious,
Speaker 2: if he saw anything. He didn't notice anything, but he's
Speaker 2: down to give all the info on all the morning
Speaker 2: crew and they're actually all at the boat house painting
Speaker 2: except for one guy, Peter Harrison, who had to go
Speaker 2: home early because he was bleeding.
Speaker 3: He cut himself on a glass bottle.
Speaker 2: He's doing ninety hours of community service for menacing, which
Speaker 2: does not seem like a chill crime at all. He
Speaker 2: does not belong with people that are just not paying
Speaker 2: for their train tickets. He actually tried to push a
Speaker 2: woman off a subway platform and one of my biggest fears.
Speaker 2: And Benson and Stabler go visit Peter at his home.
Speaker 2: They knock knock, show the badge and the people and
Speaker 2: the voice of the other end not impressed, and he's like,
Speaker 2: if you don't have a warrant, I don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2: And Benson's like, we're just here to talk about your
Speaker 2: injury since you got it performing court ordered stuff and
Speaker 2: we just need to see what's up. He opens to
Speaker 2: the door, just a crack chain still on sticks, his
Speaker 2: thumb out covered in duct tape, and he goes, I'm fine.
Speaker 2: He is a munch vibe of a man satellite surveillance
Speaker 2: ypd's dirty tricks. He goes on and on, and they
Speaker 2: decide to pray on his paranoia. Sailor's like, oh awesome,
Speaker 2: so you obviously know about rule ten sixty three and
Speaker 2: he lies and then convinces him to go and sign
Speaker 2: a form and the guys really tricked and he's in
Speaker 2: the hit interrogation room and Benson and Stable are like, actually,
Speaker 2: we want to clear some stuff up, like why are
Speaker 2: you trying to murder women on the train platform? And
Speaker 2: he's like, you don't even get it. She was an operative.
Speaker 2: She had headphones on with no music, which is like
Speaker 2: so scary that that's a sign for someone to fully
Speaker 2: attack you and think you're an operative.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I just.
Speaker 3: Like to listen to what people are talking about. I'm
Speaker 3: a snoop.
Speaker 2: So then they bring up this woman in the park
Speaker 2: and he was like, oh my god, she was taking
Speaker 2: photos of me. She was gonna geotag me and let
Speaker 2: everyone know my location, and then you know, the black
Speaker 2: helicopters were gonna come down. So then he so he
Speaker 2: approached this woman and he searched her first, and then
Speaker 2: she he saw wires and she wasn't cooperating with him,
Speaker 2: but he ordered her to abort the mission, and in
Speaker 2: that moment, his attorney walks in and says, and I
Speaker 2: abort this interrogation. And she grabs Peter and says let's go,
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh, I have to sign up for
Speaker 2: the d D five, and the lawyer opens the folder
Speaker 2: and it's a menu for a chicken shack, and he's
Speaker 2: not happy that he was tricked, and Benson's like, listen,
Speaker 2: we actually don't need him to say anything.
Speaker 3: We have a warrant.
Speaker 2: So we're at his home and Stucky's making fun of him,
Speaker 2: and it's confused why this dude only has one plate,
Speaker 2: one cup, one fork, and Munch's But do you think
Speaker 2: Stucky has friends? Like, maybe he has more plates and
Speaker 2: forks and knives, but there's no way he has friends.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't think he's entertaining.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even understand how a person like Stucky
Speaker 1: would operate in New York City like that. In a way, Stucky,
Speaker 1: I appreciate what a bad character he is. I like
Speaker 1: where we're going, but he is a departure for the
Speaker 1: show of this kind of character. We've never had such
Speaker 1: a cartoonish wackadoo. Who is like Stucky in the SVU universe.
Speaker 2: I feel like, who's that guy that's in Law and Order?
Speaker 2: Who is in Blackish? Anthony Anderson? He was annoying to me,
Speaker 2: like over the top, but that was only one episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like someone with like no social skills, who's
Speaker 1: made it to the top of this field in New
Speaker 1: York City where you have to imagine that, Like, I
Speaker 1: bet you he is. He's just one of these people
Speaker 1: that's just like very BookSmart and just has zero social skills.
Speaker 3: And that's like the problem with him.
Speaker 1: But we find out later spoiler if you've watched already,
Speaker 1: he's unhinged.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I just wonder, like, is he
Speaker 3: in a book club? Who are his friends?
Speaker 1: Like can you imagine him walking down the street going
Speaker 1: to start about like living life in New York?
Speaker 3: I don't see it, but you know whatever.
Speaker 2: So Munch is on this guy's laptop and is like, damn,
Speaker 2: this dude is paranoid as fuck, and he has all
Speaker 2: these websites open about surviving gang stalking, nine one one truth,
Speaker 2: nine one one, nine to eleven, Truthers, Vatican stuff. And
Speaker 2: Finn opens the closet and it's pepper An's style, just
Speaker 2: five shirts, pants, all the same, all black, with six
Speaker 2: pairs of shoes and so the sixth outfit is missing,
Speaker 2: but why not the shoes? And that's a huge mistake
Speaker 2: and he actually has a knife in one of the shoes,
Speaker 2: and we cut to the lab. O'hllarin's explaining to Stabler
Speaker 2: that Melinda sent him the results and the blood on
Speaker 2: the knife is the victims.
Speaker 3: So then Stabler's there and he starts to.
Speaker 2: Say Stucky's catchphrase, and he's like bing bang, and before
Speaker 2: he can finish, O'halaran's like, please stop, please don't say it.
Speaker 2: There's also blood on the on the guy's shoe as well,
Speaker 2: and Stabler's like, this guy is toast his defense. Lawyer
Speaker 2: walks in though, and and I guess she's just allowed
Speaker 2: in the lab whenever she wants and she barely right.
Speaker 2: That seems that's suspicious to quote Cardi B that's weird,
Speaker 2: Like why, like lawyers shouldn't be allowed in there. She
Speaker 2: could swipe anything she wanted off the fucking counter. Oh,
Speaker 2: she confidently just marches right in. Yeah, out a care
Speaker 2: in the world. So she says barely guys, I mean
Speaker 2: you interrogated a mentally ill man without counsel, and you
Speaker 2: know he's incompetent and he can't wave Miranda, And Stabler's like,
Speaker 2: why are you here? And she says she wants to
Speaker 2: make sure you don't play fast and loose with the
Speaker 2: evidence too, and Ryan's like, we don't play games here,
Speaker 2: and he says, we have the victims DNA and your
Speaker 2: client's knife, like done and done. So she finally starts
Speaker 2: to look nervous and stunned and is like, oh my god, really,
Speaker 2: let me see the paperwork.
Speaker 3: He hands it over.
Speaker 2: She looks through the file and then smiles and she's
Speaker 2: found a contamination. He says, no way, and she's like, well,
Speaker 2: the evidence number from the murder and from my client's
Speaker 2: apartment are both listed under the same voucher number, and
Speaker 2: that's a big no no. Stabler grabs the file and
Speaker 2: fuck and Ryan goes stucky and lawyer the lawyer says,
Speaker 2: commingled evidence. I love the word commingled. Lawyer says com
Speaker 2: mingled evant. So my client walks right out the door,
Speaker 2: sleep tight gentleman. And she walks off, and Stabler says
Speaker 2: I'll kill him, and Ryan says I'll dump the body,
Speaker 2: which means they're best friends. So Stable runs off. Stabler
Speaker 2: runs off to try and save the case. Where does
Speaker 2: he run Judith Light's house. Judge Elizabeth Donnelly opens the
Speaker 2: door in a white silk robe and BedHead, and she's
Speaker 2: very happy to see Elliott sexys in the doorway and
Speaker 2: he says, hey, this isn't a social call and she
Speaker 2: and she goes, that's highly improper and then says and
Speaker 2: a pity, so she wants to fuck him so wild.
Speaker 1: I never clocked this until here, like with a minute.
Speaker 1: She opens the door, she sees Stabler like she gets
Speaker 1: Judith light Horn dog eyes like her eyes like soften
Speaker 1: up and she's like, oh, Elliott like and she's like,
Speaker 1: what akwinkie dink I'm in my robe, like it's so
Speaker 1: funny to me.
Speaker 2: But he explains, He's like, I actually just need some
Speaker 2: help with this case. She's like, you know, listen, your
Speaker 2: department runs the notion of credible DNA, so the results
Speaker 2: are unreliable. That would be disastrous and overturn hundreds of convictions.
Speaker 2: So you got to talk to Cabot and see if
Speaker 2: getting this purpose really worth setting a lot of guilty
Speaker 2: people free. And so we're at arrangement and the court
Speaker 2: hasn't started yet. Stucky runs in and pleads with Benson
Speaker 2: and Stable are like, I didn't fuck it up, and
Speaker 2: they're like, okay, well, the.
Speaker 3: Defense is going to argue you did.
Speaker 2: Like we don't care and we bring in Peter and
Speaker 2: it's time to decide what they're going to do with
Speaker 2: this killer. And we meet an eighty a named Kristin
Speaker 2: Torres for the people. Cabot's stuck in traffic so she
Speaker 2: couldn't make it, and Julia Zimmer, the defense is like,
Speaker 2: or she didn't want to be like a laughing stock,
Speaker 2: and you know, with this career ender of a case.
Speaker 2: But the defense attorney calls for a full dismissal. Stucky
Speaker 2: is so sad. He's furrowed, crybrow vibes and reacting to
Speaker 2: what's happening.
Speaker 3: He's so stressed out.
Speaker 2: And defense asks like to come back when they have
Speaker 2: a better case, and the judge's down and it's like
Speaker 2: gavel dismiss, dismissed without prejudice. Stucky yells, you can't dismiss.
Speaker 2: He's guilty, your honor, and the judge leans in and
Speaker 2: smiles and goes, oh, you must be Dale Stucky, and
Speaker 2: his response is that he's good at his job. And
Speaker 2: the judge's like, you're diluded. If this is your definition
Speaker 2: of doing a good job, you're in the wrong line
Speaker 2: of work. And he cries, you don't know me, and
Speaker 2: she quickly says, and I don't care to sit down
Speaker 2: and shut up. She tells him you're free to go
Speaker 2: to Peter, and Peter says something about mind control and
Speaker 2: her being a beacon of hope, and she's like, save it.
Speaker 2: You're a murderer walking on a technicality and if it
Speaker 2: were up to me, you'd be in the nuthouse where
Speaker 2: you belong. And then Stucky with the biggest balls ever
Speaker 2: yells out, you're the nut for letting him go, and
Speaker 2: Benson and Stablor in Unison turn around to stare at
Speaker 2: him with their mouse on the floor like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: bro don't do that. And Judge Donnelly asks is everyone
Speaker 2: crazy today? Five minute recess and then she gabbles again
Speaker 2: and goes people take.
Speaker 3: Your meds and I like that.
Speaker 2: Julia Zimmer says, thanks, Dale, we couldn't have done it
Speaker 2: without you, a real twist in the knife in his
Speaker 2: gut of embarrassment, and sta to Peter says we'll be
Speaker 2: watching you. As he walks out of the courtroom, Dale
Speaker 2: looks sad. He then runs down the court steps yelling
Speaker 2: for the detectives. As you know, they put sunglasses on
Speaker 2: and walk down really sexy on the court steps and
Speaker 2: they don't have time for him. They're like, you botched
Speaker 2: and open and shut case, bro, and that's that. And
Speaker 2: he says I didn't do anything wrong, and it's like,
Speaker 2: just admit it. If he just said I made a mistake,
Speaker 2: I fucked up, like that would be better. Stabler says,
Speaker 2: what we're all thinking with what I just said, and
Speaker 2: he's just like, yeah, it's always I I me me, Like,
Speaker 2: just apologize and take ownership.
Speaker 3: Bro, you did fuck up.
Speaker 2: He calls him selfish and says, I'm going to do
Speaker 2: anything I can to get you run out of CSU
Speaker 2: until you're working at the motor pool where the only
Speaker 2: thing you can screw up as an oil change. Stabler
Speaker 2: walks off in a huff and Benson is like little
Speaker 2: miss good cop and says, Bro, people would make mistakes.
Speaker 3: We just have to figure out a way to fix it.
Speaker 2: And he says how and he's walking away, and Benson goes, oh,
Speaker 2: Harrison has a shadow, two of them in fact, and
Speaker 2: Finn and Munch are following Harrison down into the subway
Speaker 2: and wildly we're in Coney Island, a busy, busy day
Speaker 2: at the Pier Amusement park and Finn and Munch are
Speaker 2: full sunglasses in black they look like goths at a carnival.
Speaker 2: And there's an Aladdin style fire spitting sword guy and
Speaker 2: the killer enters a haunted house and the detectives cut
Speaker 2: the line and hop in as well. And we laugh
Speaker 2: about this pretty hardcore on the live show because it's like,
Speaker 2: why don't you just wait at the end of the
Speaker 2: haunted house.
Speaker 3: Like it's so crazy. Why are you riding the ride one?
Speaker 1: If you take the exit one, if you take the entrance,
Speaker 1: there's only a couple ways in and out of this
Speaker 1: haunted house at Coney Island.
Speaker 2: No, they like fully didn't, like they could have closed
Speaker 2: the ride down, but I guess they're just following him.
Speaker 3: But like they did the ride.
Speaker 2: And it looked like a great haunted house like there,
Speaker 2: you know, it was ghoulish, there was like fun stuff.
Speaker 2: But so they lose him, obviously, and it's just like
Speaker 2: it's funny to look for someone in sunglasses and Finn
Speaker 2: is wearing ladies' frames for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're both wearing sunglasses inside a house. Like I'm however,
Speaker 1: did you lose him?
Speaker 3: What silly?
Speaker 2: And the fact that like you get out of court
Speaker 2: and you just run to Coney Island.
Speaker 3: Is really funny to me too.
Speaker 1: If there's people that listen to this podcast, because people
Speaker 1: do tell us they listen and they don't watch.
Speaker 3: You got to just go on and look at this.
Speaker 1: The way that Finn and Munch look coming out being
Speaker 1: he cupped out of a haunted house in a little
Speaker 1: spinny ride, both wearing sunglasses, frantically looking for the killer
Speaker 1: that they've lost is lah.
Speaker 3: It's like Chef's kiss television moment. I love it.
Speaker 2: I know it's really wild that we haven't enticed you
Speaker 2: to watch yet. I mean, I'm just obsessed with us,
Speaker 2: but so wild. So we're at the precincts, we're no
Speaker 2: longer in Cony Island, and it's Stabler yelling like I
Speaker 2: can't believe they fucking lost him, and Huang and Benson
Speaker 2: are there with him, and Huang says, yeah, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be hard to find him because he's so paranoid and
Speaker 2: believes all eyes are on him. So he's like got
Speaker 2: a lot of places to hide, and he's a pro
Speaker 2: at hiding. So then it's okay, he's out there hiding,
Speaker 2: Like what else can we do? She's Go suggests picking
Speaker 2: him up on a mental hygiene warrant. So then it's like,
Speaker 2: we just got to get a judge to civilly commit him,
Speaker 2: and Huang is like, I can make that happen, and
Speaker 2: Craigan walks up and says it's too late for that
Speaker 2: because they found another victim sad, So they cut to
Speaker 2: a very very bloody woman cut up in a flannel
Speaker 2: shirt under the pier near Coney Island and Munch finds
Speaker 2: her id she's anime laws. In twenty nine, Finn greets
Speaker 2: Benson and Stabler as they walk on the sand in
Speaker 2: full business outfits, just ties swinging over the sand, and
Speaker 2: he's pissed they lost him, and Finn is like do
Speaker 2: you not see the thousands of people around here?
Speaker 3: Like, of course we lost him.
Speaker 2: We tried our biss So then Munch is like, maybe
Speaker 2: it's someone else's.
Speaker 3: Stabler's like shut up, like he's not having it.
Speaker 2: Of course it's this guy Stucky comes out from under
Speaker 2: the pier with a can of cola and there's a
Speaker 2: nice bloody fingerprint, so that's good, okay, And then it's
Speaker 2: like a really cool shot where Stuck he's in the
Speaker 2: middle of Stabler, Munchfinn, and Benson and I bet this
Speaker 2: is like a huge day in the actor's life though,
Speaker 2: Like whoever who else gets to stand in the middle
Speaker 2: of all four detectives over them, Like that must have
Speaker 2: been cool, like a fun day at work. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: they're usually broken up into doubles and stuff, so it's
Speaker 2: just kind of nice. So STUCKI found out that he's
Speaker 2: part of some online communities and maybe that's a way
Speaker 2: in to find someone he knows. And he loves the
Speaker 2: website Persecute you dot com and it's an online university
Speaker 2: that helps you fight back. And he bragged online about
Speaker 2: the crime and that he defeated NYPD mind control.
Speaker 3: But how is he posting and running?
Speaker 2: So someone named Gwendolen is chatting with him on the site,
Speaker 2: so maybe we can find him through her, and Munch goes, Okay,
Speaker 2: well I know her, so I'll do this, and he
Speaker 2: says that he knows her from a jfk assassination site
Speaker 2: and she has some great pictures of the Grassy Knoll.
Speaker 2: So he goes to meet her at Overthrow bookstore. And
Speaker 2: I used to go to a place called Overthrow Boxing,
Speaker 2: so I kind of like that and it's a it's
Speaker 2: fucking Carol Kane beloved that. I love her so much.
Speaker 1: My favorite thing she's in because it's the holiday season
Speaker 1: coming up, Scrooged. I'm obsessed with Scrooge. She's one of
Speaker 1: the ghosts. I love her so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Carol's belove it film, TV, animation, stage and she
Speaker 2: has like a really signature voice, a lot of blonde
Speaker 2: curls are cute, and she's smiling and she's happy to
Speaker 2: see Munch.
Speaker 3: He's not in the Forum anymore.
Speaker 2: He's retired from that, but he's underground working on exposing
Speaker 2: the truth. And she's like, it's got to be so bad,
Speaker 2: you know, with all these cell towers they're watching us.
Speaker 2: And he says that they're on to Peter and they're
Speaker 2: trying to find him. And she's like, oh, you know
Speaker 2: him and he's like, oh yeah, I heard him give
Speaker 2: a great talk on homeland security. And it's like, where
Speaker 2: is he booking talks like he's he's just a Joe Schmow,
Speaker 2: you know. She says he knows too much and that's
Speaker 2: why they're after him. And then she shows like a
Speaker 2: newspaper and he's on the cover of it. She catches
Speaker 2: someone spying on them through a bookcase and it's fin
Speaker 2: and Munch turns around and yells, this is a private conversation,
Speaker 2: and she says, damn, you always made me feel so
Speaker 2: safe John. He has to get down to business though.
Speaker 2: He's like, listen and I gotta find Peter. She's hesitant,
Speaker 2: he lies, She gives it up, so she says that
Speaker 2: he's running and he has followers that are helping him,
Speaker 2: and he says, trust me, you know what we meant
Speaker 2: to each other, and she gives more information and says
Speaker 2: that he's at an empty store in eighty eighth and Broadway.
Speaker 2: He rents the basement and he turned it into a
Speaker 2: safe room. He starts to leave and Gwendolen gets up
Speaker 2: and is like, maybe we could be together again. I'm
Speaker 2: back on my meds and he's like, no, I have
Speaker 2: to go, and she begs him to stay, and then
Speaker 2: Finn is like, oh, you sly dog making moves on
Speaker 2: looney Ladies, and Munch walks by and goes, that's my
Speaker 2: ex wife. So done, Dune, I don't know. That's fun
Speaker 2: and excited We meet a wife. Yeah, have we met
Speaker 2: others of his ex wives? We've heard them reference. No,
Speaker 2: she's the only one we meet to my knowledge. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So Finn is in the warehouse with Stabler in this
Speaker 2: basement and there's guns and flashlights and Peter's in there,
Speaker 2: and then he's like hiding and then he pushes a
Speaker 2: shelf on them and he's like, the judge said leave
Speaker 2: me alone, and they're like that before he decided to
Speaker 2: kill somebody. So he says he didn't kill anyone in
Speaker 2: Coney Island, but they're like, we have a fingerprint, and
Speaker 2: he says, I didn't kill you.
Speaker 3: You did it to yourself.
Speaker 2: And he pulls on a rope that's hanging from the
Speaker 2: ceiling and liquid and smoke happen, and our boys are coughing,
Speaker 2: they're struggling, but also Finn is like bending down into
Speaker 2: the smoke fumes. We're back from a commercial break and
Speaker 2: our boys in blue are okay, and Finn is like, honey,
Speaker 2: I've shared a car with Finn for a long time
Speaker 2: and I've smelled a lot worse. Oh, Hallarin's on the scene.
Speaker 2: He's like, no, listen, you guys, joke all jokes aside.
Speaker 2: You're lucky to be alive. A couple more seconds breathing
Speaker 2: that gas. It's hydrogen sulfide, you'd be dead and Suckiel's
Speaker 2: bam detergent suicide. He escaped from a secret route, so
Speaker 2: it's like fuck missing again. But Sailor has an idea
Speaker 2: who can help find Peter. So we run to the
Speaker 2: defense attorney and she's like, babe, even if I knew
Speaker 2: where he was, you know, I can't tell you. And
Speaker 2: in her desk there's like tons of bouquets and flowers
Speaker 2: and gift baskets, so I wonder what celebration has recently
Speaker 2: happened that everyone's gotten her so many gifts, and they go,
Speaker 2: he's on a murder streak, and she's like, listen, if
Speaker 2: he contacts me, I'll urge him to turn himself in.
Speaker 2: But you have to do your job and I'll do mine.
Speaker 2: And it's like we're not a team, bitch. Her view
Speaker 2: is good, she is rich. Stabler is like, doing my
Speaker 2: job got me almost got me killed, and she softens
Speaker 2: a little. She's like, I'm sorry, he's just he's never
Speaker 2: been this delusional before. I've tried to get him on meds,
Speaker 2: but he refuses, and Benson goes, wow, you really care
Speaker 2: about him and she explains that she's known Peter since
Speaker 2: he was seventeen. His parents were killed in a plane
Speaker 2: crash and she got him a good settlement.
Speaker 1: Thank god. You know, a girardi wasn't the last. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say she was his girardi, but
Speaker 1: a good one. Yeah. And she was actually his trustee
Speaker 1: until he turned twenty one. And she wants to take
Speaker 1: care of him and help him, and she knows that
Speaker 1: he could be a danger in himself in the community,
Speaker 1: but she's the lawyer and so like, the detectives know this,
Speaker 1: and she's doing the best she can. So they're like,
Speaker 1: maybe you know someone else that can help us, someone
Speaker 1: to whose hands aren't tied, and she remembers a professor
Speaker 1: at the Gotham School of Fine Arts, Edgar Rodzinsky. The
Speaker 1: detective are now doing a windy walk and talk with
Speaker 1: the teacher. He hasn't seen him in months, but he
Speaker 1: wishes he would come to him for help. He's sad
Speaker 1: to hear that he has killed two people, and he
Speaker 1: could tell his illness was getting worse. His work is
Speaker 1: always dark, but this week, damn, the shadows were extra
Speaker 1: spooky and they're like, what new works this week. You
Speaker 1: said you haven't seen him, and he's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen him, but the paintings.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: He comes into the studio at night and then he's
Speaker 2: always gone by the morning, just a little vampire artist.
Speaker 2: And they go look at his paintings and Benson says, wow,
Speaker 2: Teacher's like incredible, right, and Stabler's like it's like the
Speaker 2: Dante's Inferno meets Newsweek, and the teacher's pissed. He's like,
Speaker 2: a collage isn't just for school children? And I love collaging.
Speaker 2: So I'm with this little teacher and he talks about
Speaker 2: the power of the medium and then says how nine
Speaker 2: to eleven is the trigger that really fucked Peter up
Speaker 2: after the towers fell. He became obsessed and became super
Speaker 2: anti government and it took over his work. And then
Speaker 2: Benson sees one work of art that has a lot
Speaker 2: of clues in it, and so we're now back at
Speaker 2: the precinct with the painting and Stucky's holding it up,
Speaker 2: being like, damn, this is like a confession that it
Speaker 2: live in.
Speaker 3: Elliott didn't get what oh so stupid.
Speaker 2: Then starts analyzing out loud and the crew hates him.
Speaker 2: They're like, you're in the wrong building. Oh are you
Speaker 2: just gonna solve the crime for us? And then he's like,
Speaker 2: come on, it's super clear these are the faces of
Speaker 2: the guys he's gonna kill next, and Stabler says, why
Speaker 2: don't you put it down before you can daminate more evidence,
Speaker 2: And then to respond to that, he's like, well, one
Speaker 2: of these people look like Live and it does. It
Speaker 2: straight up looks like Live and had her homecoming. Is
Speaker 2: it Live or is it not? I don't know, I
Speaker 2: can't tell. It looks like Live dresses a beauty queen.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's like a look alike, but I don't,
Speaker 2: you know, but it does look like her. Stabler grabs
Speaker 2: him and says, you're in an obnoxious little jack hole,
Speaker 2: and Craigan tells Stabler to let him go, and he does,
Speaker 2: and then Craigan's like, get out of here, and then
Speaker 2: Stabler walks back to Live and then Stucky tells Craigan
Speaker 2: that Stabler assaulted him and that he has to write
Speaker 2: him up, and it's like, don't tell Craigan what to do.
Speaker 2: He's just such a fucking piece of shit. Craigan's I mean,
Speaker 2: he has like the vibes of like freedom of speech. Man,
Speaker 2: It's like, no, if you run your mouth you might
Speaker 2: get hit, you know what I mean. Like it's someone
Speaker 2: that just is not into any consequences at all. Craigan says,
Speaker 2: the only one getting a rip around here is you Dale.
Speaker 2: Stucky persists like he accosted me, and Craigan's like, Babe,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing paperwork, please leave, and Stucky is sent
Speaker 2: Benson interrupts and he's like, oh my god, listen to this.
Speaker 2: And on the phone we hear the defense attorney going,
Speaker 2: I know you're angry, please calm down. So he's obviously
Speaker 2: in the office trying to hurt her, and she's smart
Speaker 2: and she calls undercover and you hear her going, I'm
Speaker 2: your friend. So now we're in person at the office
Speaker 2: and Benson and Stabler are you know, hiding sneaking in,
Speaker 2: and Peter is yelling at her like I can't trust anyone.
Speaker 3: People are following me.
Speaker 2: I can't see them, but I know they're there, And
Speaker 2: Stabler and Benson are watching in and they pushed in
Speaker 2: as he talks about mind control, and she's yelling, no, Peter,
Speaker 2: and she says he was thrown off by the paper
Speaker 2: with his face that says madman on the loose, which
Speaker 2: I think would get anyone kind of stressed out, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I don't know, no one would love that.
Speaker 2: And Benson's like, well tomorrow we'll say the city is
Speaker 2: safe again, and it's like until next week's episode, honey.
Speaker 2: So Zimmer, though she's conflicted. She like, you know, did
Speaker 2: she do the right thing as a lawyer, But you
Speaker 2: had to sell. You had to help yourself, babe. He
Speaker 2: yils Trader and says you'll pay, and Stabler walks him
Speaker 2: off cuffed. Stabler puts him in the back seat, and
Speaker 2: Zimmer's like, I'll meet you at the precinct. But when
Speaker 2: she gets into her car, it starts filling with gas
Speaker 2: and it's hissing gas and the doors are locked. She
Speaker 2: can't get out and she's coughing, honking trying to get help.
Speaker 2: The detectives run back to help her, and Peter's in
Speaker 2: the back seat groaning and says I tried to warn her,
Speaker 2: and Stabler finally bashes the glass open in Julia's car
Speaker 2: to help get her out, but it's too late. She's
Speaker 2: already dead, and Peter screams death to all betrayers. So
Speaker 2: then back Up arrives and Stabler passes Peter off and says,
Speaker 2: take zombie boy with you. Zimmer gets moved onto a
Speaker 2: stretcher as O'Halloran approaches the detectives to gossip about science.
Speaker 1: But she is dead as hell. Like she gets moved
Speaker 1: and she is dead like it's shocking. It's like at
Speaker 1: the top of the act, next act and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess she didn't make it, Like I was shocked.
Speaker 1: Oh I thought you. I thought we knew she was
Speaker 1: dead on arrival when that gas just I just.
Speaker 3: Don't know how quick gas works.
Speaker 1: I always thought they broke the window, like when I
Speaker 1: when I watched this for the first time, I was
Speaker 1: definitely like, well they got around. I'm sure she's just
Speaker 1: passed out and she'll just cough and come back to life.
Speaker 2: But no, Yeah, I guess sometimes we forget we've seen
Speaker 2: these eight hundred times.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the car turned into a gas chamber basically, and
Speaker 2: then in the little mirror flap in the front seat,
Speaker 2: it says guilty, so he must have rigged the car
Speaker 2: Before going up to talk to her. Ryan says he'll
Speaker 2: take the car to the lab and haula with anything
Speaker 2: in my Heather Thompson, but he'll let them know if
Speaker 2: he finds anything. So then they're like, fuck, what about
Speaker 2: the other friends that betrayed him? What if he left
Speaker 2: surprises for them too? So they go pick up all
Speaker 2: their all the helpers that they've talked about the case with,
Speaker 2: and the professor is safe and Gwendolen is there, but
Speaker 2: she's so pissed at Munch she won't even look at him.
Speaker 2: And then she slaps Munch across the face and says,
Speaker 2: you are nothing to me, John Nothing, and then throws
Speaker 2: her cup filled with liquid as he walks off. And
Speaker 2: then finj just says, clean up an aisle three, And
Speaker 2: it's like he won't even be like, are you okay? Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're good friends, you've known each other for years, maybe
Speaker 2: your work friends, but you, like a woman just slapped him,
Speaker 2: you can't be like you good?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And also you like used a personal relationship to help
Speaker 1: this case, and you know that might have been tough
Speaker 1: for you. I was the water throwing looks improvised to me.
Speaker 1: I'd be really interested to ask Carol Kane if she
Speaker 1: just like it seems like she just picked it up
Speaker 1: and like threw it like because not enough hits him.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I really love that, but I also did really quickly
Speaker 1: want to circle back.
Speaker 3: On the wiki of the fandom for SVU, Munch.
Speaker 1: Is listed as having four ex wives, Gwen Munch, Billy
Speaker 1: Lou Hatfield, Felicia Munch, and then unnamed ex wife, which
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 3: I thought there was one three. I didn't know there
Speaker 3: was four. This says unnamed ex wife. It's totally possible.
Speaker 1: When he talked about unnamed ex wife, he was talking
Speaker 1: about Felicia or Gwen or Billy Lou. I don't remember
Speaker 1: the talking about Billy Lou. But I you know, I
Speaker 1: never got I never did a deep dive into Munch's
Speaker 1: personal relationship.
Speaker 2: But we gotta get Munch. What's what's been stopping us.
Speaker 2: We gotta get money. Yeah, I have lived in Paris.
Speaker 2: Let's get his ass. Let's get his ass. We'll get
Speaker 2: high on zoom and we'll ask him about all his
Speaker 2: ex wives and all the bars that he's wanted to open. Yes,
Speaker 2: so they haven't found any other traps in any of
Speaker 2: the people's houses that they have like gone to find
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, fuck, I feel bad for Gwendolen and
Speaker 2: Munch is like why because she was married to me,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, no, the nightmare in her brain, like
Speaker 2: she's trapped in there. And Finn goes, well, you don't
Speaker 2: have any sympathy like that for Peter, and she says, well,
Speaker 2: if he didn't kill everyone that looked at him wrong,
Speaker 2: then yeah, I would also have empathy for him, being like,
Speaker 2: you know, the nightmare that is in your brain. So
Speaker 2: then Stabler tells everyone Ryan wants to bug them and
Speaker 2: while hanging up the phone. So, I don't know exactly
Speaker 2: what that means, but we will find out. So the
Speaker 2: scoop is there was a mosquito found in the car
Speaker 2: and the mosquito's blood, so the mosquito's belly is filled
Speaker 2: with blood and we can get DNA from the blood
Speaker 2: in the mosquito belly.
Speaker 3: I'm shocked.
Speaker 1: I mean that's how they did Jurassic Park. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: the whole premise of Jurassic Park is that they found
Speaker 1: dinosaur blood in the in the in the fucking mosquitoes
Speaker 1: and rebred dinosaurs.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't watch Jurassic Maybe.
Speaker 1: I'll watch it again. Maybe it'll really I've only ever
Speaker 1: seen the first one. I've never seen another one. I'm
Speaker 1: not in the Jurassic universe like our old pal Stephen Morris.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, I don't I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: know that from the first one, life finds a way,
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: But maybe I should watch it again because even you know,
Speaker 2: I'm recording now from our friend Julia's house and they're
Speaker 2: big Jurassic Park house.
Speaker 3: Oh they're j heads. Okay, yeah they are, but I
Speaker 3: don't know why. It never like tickled me in that way.
Speaker 2: So anyway, this gas to death bug is going to
Speaker 2: be their star witness and we're gonna nail him from
Speaker 2: a bug. And Ryan says that cops in Finland did
Speaker 2: it recently and then and Jurassic Park. So but they
Speaker 2: also found a message in the car that says one down,
Speaker 2: three to go, So who is next? Who is next?
Speaker 2: Who needs revenge? And then they're like, oh, fuck Judith Light.
Speaker 2: So they run to help Judith Light and she's pissed
Speaker 2: that he would ever even think to come after her,
Speaker 2: and Ryan says, bomb squad says, it's clear. Stucky comes
Speaker 2: in to say, we also checked the HVAC to make
Speaker 2: sure he didn't fuck with the air. And Ryan is like, Stucky,
Speaker 2: put everything back where you found it, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to check out the bug. And Sucky's like, oh cool,
Speaker 2: like a listening device, and Benson's like, no, Mosquito's blood.
Speaker 2: And then they all disperse, and Benson and Stabar are like, Babe, Judy,
Speaker 2: you gotta go to the hotel and she says she
Speaker 2: doesn't run, and Benson's like, I get it, but what
Speaker 2: about room service?
Speaker 3: How about the Waldorf? And excuse me, who's paying for this?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like, is there a fund for judges that need to
Speaker 1: go in hiding because they won't just go to a motel.
Speaker 1: We've got to have a Waldorf fund for them.
Speaker 2: I know, not even yeah, the Waldorf, But I want
Speaker 2: to know in terms of like four seasons, the Ritz
Speaker 2: and the Waldorf, like where they all lie in terms
Speaker 2: of the top notch. Like I know they're all five star,
Speaker 2: but I wonder if I don't know that's a fancy.
Speaker 2: If you're one of our richer listeners and you've stayed
Speaker 2: at all those hotels, please message us and rank them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to know.
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of successful working comedians are
Speaker 2: out of four seasons, but I also wonder if there's
Speaker 2: just tons of four seasons where people are going always curious.
Speaker 2: So anyways, Judith Light says, my house is safe, and
Speaker 2: then she sits down and all of a sudden she
Speaker 2: screams in pain. Something stuck her fuck and she passes
Speaker 2: out into Stabler's arm, and she says, I don't feel good.
Speaker 2: Benson picks up a full syringe. Was that in the cushion? Like,
Speaker 2: how does the syringe in a chair sit up? And like, ready,
Speaker 2: that's a great question.
Speaker 1: Great I wonder the same thing because she had to
Speaker 1: have sat on it in a way that it depressed
Speaker 1: perfectly to give her the full dose, as they say,
Speaker 1: And like, I don't know how that happens, but whatever,
Speaker 1: suspension of disbelief, I'm just glad she gets carried out
Speaker 1: by Stabler since she's so horny for him.
Speaker 3: But I just hope she's not gonna die.
Speaker 2: And Mercy Hospital is six blocks away, so they rush
Speaker 2: her to the hospital. She's coating and they wheel her off.
Speaker 2: Benson and Stabler breathe deep as she's scurried away on
Speaker 2: a stretcher. Time passes and she'll be okay. And we
Speaker 2: find out that potassium chloride was in there and that's
Speaker 2: used in lethal injections. Stabler calls Craig into fill him
Speaker 2: in that our baby girl is safe, and he tells
Speaker 2: him o'haleran wants them in the lab. So Benson sent
Speaker 2: Stabler off and she's gonna stay with the judge for
Speaker 2: a bit. And holy shit, the DNA match is like
Speaker 2: blinking on a computer at the lab. And in that moment,
Speaker 2: a knife goes into Ryan o'haleran and he drops down
Speaker 2: in pain. He's bleeding and choking and struggling to breathe
Speaker 2: with a knife sticking straight out of his chest and
Speaker 2: we lose him.
Speaker 3: Our hottie is dead, Stanley wives what. I don't know.
Speaker 3: We knew that then, I didn't know we knew it
Speaker 3: at this point yet. But he is dead.
Speaker 2: It's so fucked up, yeah, because he's like and then
Speaker 2: once you like, yeah, lean your head to the side,
Speaker 2: I feel like you're dead.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the that's a man.
Speaker 2: And it's like it's just such a fucking plunge right
Speaker 2: into the heart.
Speaker 3: It's not like, yeah, yeah, our baby is dead.
Speaker 1: So sad to see such hotness be stuff be snuffed out,
Speaker 1: and in that moment, Stabler walks in looking for him
Speaker 1: and then sees the computer and the DNA match is drum.
Speaker 2: Roll Stucky fuck bing bang bong, and then he sees
Speaker 2: the legs of dead Ryan o'hallar and in that moment
Speaker 2: he gets whacked in the head by a fire extinguish shirt,
Speaker 2: not the first time in the show Stucky is a psycho.
Speaker 2: He leans over Stabler and grabs the gun, and in
Speaker 2: that moment, his cell phone starts ringing, so Stucky answers
Speaker 2: Elliot's phone and it's Benson. He's like, hey live and
Speaker 2: Benson shocked to hear Dale's voice and he is like,
Speaker 2: where the fuck is Stabler? And he says, oh him
Speaker 2: and Ryan went out for a bite to eat. He
Speaker 2: left his phone on the table. What a dummy, right,
Speaker 2: And it's like, what I thought you were meeting up
Speaker 2: for DNA and Stucky goes, well, the DNA hasn't popped
Speaker 2: off yet.
Speaker 3: And that's a direct quote. Usually I add a lot
Speaker 3: of flare that he.
Speaker 2: Said popped off, like that is him or I'm joking
Speaker 2: And I wrote that as a joke.
Speaker 3: I don't remember anymore. I think he says hasn't popped yet. Okay,
Speaker 3: you may have added the off.
Speaker 1: You and Stucky's powers combined created this sentence.
Speaker 2: So he goes, so, yeah, so they just stepped out
Speaker 2: for a quick soushe and we'll be back and tell
Speaker 2: him I called, and then they hang up.
Speaker 3: So Stucky is wet with excitement.
Speaker 2: He pulls Stabler by his legs and tapes him to
Speaker 2: a chair and tapes his mouth shut. As Sabler comes
Speaker 2: to Stucky's there, being like, you're surprised, right, You didn't
Speaker 2: think I could do anything?
Speaker 3: Huh?
Speaker 2: And he peels the tape off his mouth and Stabler's like,
Speaker 2: what have you done?
Speaker 3: Suck?
Speaker 2: He's like, okay, big time detective. You can't figure it out.
Speaker 2: And he pulls the knife out of Ryan's body and
Speaker 2: is finally hitting Stabler, like what is happening? And he goes, fuck,
Speaker 2: you try to kill Judge and you gass Zimmer And
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, I killed Ryan now too, and now
Speaker 2: you're gonna die you ready, And he starts cutting him
Speaker 2: and blood is squirting, and he said you shouldn't have
Speaker 2: been mean to me.
Speaker 3: What a child?
Speaker 2: He goes, you always made fun of me. Men ha
Speaker 2: ha he says he was trying to help Peter is
Speaker 2: a bad man and should be in jail, Like, sure,
Speaker 2: I screwed up a little bit, and Stabler's like, you
Speaker 2: just killed the girl and stuck. He's like, yeah, but
Speaker 2: I did it so we could get Peter. I'm a
Speaker 2: hero and Stabler is like, Harrison is in jail, You're
Speaker 2: not going to be able to push this on him.
Speaker 2: But he has a plane to frame one of his
Speaker 2: paranoid pals and there will be nothing to link me
Speaker 2: to any of this as soon as I get rid
Speaker 2: of that mosquito. And Stabler is like, what makes you
Speaker 2: think like we got nothing else on you? All killers
Speaker 2: leave something behind and he says, no, I'm not stupid.
Speaker 2: You all think I'm stupid, and Stabler's like, well, you're
Speaker 2: killing everyone who hurts your feelings, so I don't know,
Speaker 2: like you suck, And Stucky grabs him and says, you
Speaker 2: know what, I've been a very little busy zebra. Haven't
Speaker 2: I drink everyone? And he puts the tape back over
Speaker 2: Stabler's mouth and he starts cutting Stabler again and calls
Speaker 2: him stupid again, and then Live walks in, calling for Elliott.
Speaker 2: Fuck Benson sees Stabler tied up and runs toward him,
Speaker 2: and then she sees dead Ryan as Stucky screams, don't
Speaker 2: move with a gun pointed at her back. He makes
Speaker 2: her put her gun down and she does, and she's
Speaker 2: wearing a leather jacket, looking sexy as always, and Stucky's like,
Speaker 2: what are you doing here? I didn't want to hurt you,
Speaker 2: and she's like, then, don't e looel and he says
Speaker 2: it's too late though, and you've seen too much and
Speaker 2: she's like, can we all just calm down and relax,
Speaker 2: like you did good, real good? And he's confused, like what,
Speaker 2: so she goes, well, I mean, I think it's really
Speaker 2: clear what happened here. One of Harrison's crazy followers got
Speaker 2: in here, and you just found the body is and
Speaker 2: secured the crime scene and called me right, And Stucky's
Speaker 2: like what really, and she's like, yeah, that's what I'll
Speaker 2: tell Craigan and you can finangle the forensics. And then
Speaker 2: she's like and then it'll be like SVU hero is
Speaker 2: killed in the line of duty.
Speaker 3: It's perfect.
Speaker 2: And Benson's acting a little crazy and Stucky's like, you're lying,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, you think you're the only one who
Speaker 2: is living a hell because of this prick. And she
Speaker 2: walks to Stabler and starts slapping him in the face
Speaker 2: back and forth, quoting Stabler live do this, live, do that.
Speaker 2: I'm sick of it, sick of it. I want to
Speaker 2: hear him scream. And then she rips off the tape
Speaker 2: off his face and they start going back and forth,
Speaker 2: and Stucky yells, both of you shut up, and he
Speaker 2: says hit him again, and Stabler says, don't you do it, bitch,
Speaker 2: and she hits him and Stucky doesn't believe her. She
Speaker 2: then says, if you knew half of what this prick
Speaker 2: has done, somebody needs to take him out. And she
Speaker 2: turns around to him like so turned on and is
Speaker 2: like I didn't know anybody else felt this way, and
Speaker 2: that you would be the one to fucking be able
Speaker 2: to do this, and stable the yells don't listen to her,
Speaker 2: and Benson and Stucky both yells shut up, and then
Speaker 2: Stucky charges Elliott and hits him really hard again, and
Speaker 2: Benson says, once the son of a bitch is dead,
Speaker 2: I'm going to need a new partner, and he's like, well,
Speaker 2: what about Craigan and Maris go's like, oh, come on,
Speaker 2: I have him wrapped around my little finger, and Finn
Speaker 2: and Munch they all do whatever the fuck I say.
Speaker 3: I'm so hot. She goes, dale, if I say the
Speaker 3: word you're it and the word.
Speaker 1: You become instead of a CSU person a detective on
Speaker 1: New York and MYPD like, it's so crazy, and Stucky
Speaker 1: is crying and thinking about it, and he does like
Speaker 1: the sound of it, and she's like, yeah, we can.
Speaker 3: You know, we get each other.
Speaker 2: We're connected, We're so connected, she says again. He says, well, finally,
Speaker 2: let's get the third wheel out. And you know, she
Speaker 2: doesn't actually want Stabler to die, so she's like, wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 2: I want him to watch and he's like watch what
Speaker 2: and she's like, watch this and she looks down at
Speaker 2: his lips, seduces his ass, and they kiss, and as
Speaker 2: they kiss, she opens her eyes and stares at Stabler,
Speaker 2: and in that moment, Stabler kicks Stucky from behind into
Speaker 2: his balls and he crouches in pain, and then Benson
Speaker 2: elbows him in the face and takes the gun. She
Speaker 2: cuts open the tape on Stabler and you know he's
Speaker 2: gonna be okay, Everything's gonna be fine.
Speaker 3: He's like, how did you know? And she's like, well, stuck.
Speaker 2: He said, you went to get sushi, you and raw fish,
Speaker 2: And then Stabler laughs. I'm glad he's like fully bleeding
Speaker 2: from his abdomen and has time to giggle a little bit.
Speaker 2: And we've talked about this, what would be our sushi?
Speaker 2: You know, like how would you what would we know? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you're a vegetarian, but like you would go to
Speaker 2: a steakhouse with a friend, like you would order something.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But if if somebody said, like, oh, she just ran
Speaker 1: out to grab like a pulled pork sandwich, you'd be
Speaker 1: like what you know? Because even when I ate meat
Speaker 1: that wasn't like thing I would have sandwich. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: minus pull pork sandwich, yours would be I know you
Speaker 1: don't like stuff. Yeah, but it's olives, Like I guess's
Speaker 1: at to go get it? She went out to go
Speaker 1: get a bunch of olives for martinis or something.
Speaker 2: No, I mean I don't really eat Indian food often,
Speaker 2: but I've had it like four or five times at
Speaker 2: a restaurant with friends, so like, yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I've had some most set like that's the thing. Like,
Speaker 2: even if I'm not down for something, if someone's like,
Speaker 2: let's go eat here, it's like, helly, yeah, let's do.
Speaker 3: It right, it would be tough to get that. So
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think, like what figure it out?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, if someone said we went out for mushrooms, that
Speaker 2: would be us connected.
Speaker 3: We both Yeah, our eggplant parmesan. I don't know. I
Speaker 3: don't like that. Yeah, I don't either.
Speaker 2: So if someone said, like Karen Liza went out for
Speaker 2: egg plant and portobello mushroom sandwiches, call the cops, Call
Speaker 2: the cops, Call the cops. Yeah, or outside of food,
Speaker 2: what would I'm trying to think what where I would
Speaker 2: never go?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, someone said I was golfing.
Speaker 1: I would Lisa is just out, you know, hitting a
Speaker 1: couple balls around, working the back nine or whatever they
Speaker 1: say in golf.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so funny. Yeah, that would happen to me too.
Speaker 3: Yeah you would.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you wouldn't golf, but your Connecticut would maybe do
Speaker 2: a fork in it.
Speaker 1: I would Mini golf. If the if for ad Mini's
Speaker 1: not in there, I've been kidnapped.
Speaker 2: And then they stand over Ryan and Stucky and Stabler
Speaker 2: says what a way to end done, done, It's over
Speaker 2: a bitch, it's stick.
Speaker 1: Wolf, and it's like, what do you mean do you
Speaker 1: mean what a way for O'Halloran's life to end, or
Speaker 1: like what a way for this saga to end with Stucky?
Speaker 1: Like it's it's one of the most insane episodes because
Speaker 1: it's like, why did Stuck you have to kill so
Speaker 1: many people? Like he didn't have to play a full
Speaker 1: revenge spree.
Speaker 3: We couldn't.
Speaker 1: He could have just killed that girl under the boardwalk
Speaker 1: and like with the thumb print, that would have been good,
Speaker 1: killing his lawyer, going after a judge like yours.
Speaker 3: Well, no, it's anyone that wronged him.
Speaker 2: So the defense attorney was like, couldn't have done it
Speaker 2: without you, Stucky. So that's what made him want to
Speaker 2: kill her.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So basically Stuck he's going on his own
Speaker 1: revenge spree. I thought it was more he was trying
Speaker 1: to frame Peter for his revenge spree.
Speaker 2: But then it got too late that it was like
Speaker 2: classic where anyone that humiliated him.
Speaker 3: Had to die. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for someone to be like that but also have
Speaker 1: this like ding Dang Dong dorcas personality, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Don't trust anyone with a catchphrase.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's true, as we say, that's dick wolf baby.
Speaker 2: Let me be and then we'll get into the fucking crime.
Speaker 2: And you can all go pee too.
Speaker 1: I get yeah, go take a quick pee and we'll
Speaker 1: be right back. Okay. So obviously this episode is off
Speaker 1: the walls bonkers, and there's not like a true.
Speaker 3: There's no Stucky character.
Speaker 1: But I would say that the Peter Harrison character is
Speaker 1: based off of a famous case of a man named
Speaker 1: Andrew Goldstein who was diagnosed with schizophrenia as you know,
Speaker 1: in his teen years, and then in January, on January third,
Speaker 1: which is my sister's birthday of nineteen ninety nine, at
Speaker 1: age twenty nine, after failing to take his medication, he
Speaker 1: pushed a thirty two year old aspiring writer, Kendra Webdale
Speaker 1: off onto the subway tracks at twenty third Street station,
Speaker 1: where she was killed by an oncoming endentrain. So Peter
Speaker 1: Harrison was accused of attempting this, but this man Andrew
Speaker 1: Goldstein did this in real life. Was like a super
Speaker 1: sad story that rocked New York and the entire nation.
Speaker 1: And I'll get into the aftermath of it a little bit.
Speaker 1: But Kendra was like very well liked, really smart, well read.
Speaker 1: She was from I think upstate New York, more like
Speaker 1: Buffalo area, and she like really always wanted to go
Speaker 1: to the city.
Speaker 3: She was well read.
Speaker 1: She was like super disciplined, like would wake up early
Speaker 1: to run and made friends really easily. Like everybody just
Speaker 1: had great things to say about her. And she moved
Speaker 1: to New York to make her dreams come true. She
Speaker 1: loved the city. She'd lived there for three years. She
Speaker 1: was trying to write a screenplay. She had done a
Speaker 1: little bit of journalism. She just wanted to write. And
Speaker 1: her brother Ralph said she was the kind of person
Speaker 1: who would have helped the kind of person who did
Speaker 1: this end quote, which is so sad, and you know
Speaker 1: her Her death really shook New York, which had been
Speaker 1: experiencing in the late nineties. New York had been experiencing
Speaker 1: plunging crime rates, and everyone was like, this just goes
Speaker 1: to show you that you never know what can happen
Speaker 1: when like someone's in the throes of madness or whatever.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't just New York.
Speaker 1: This crime triggered a full nationwide debate about mental health
Speaker 1: and don't worry.
Speaker 3: We still haven't done that much about it.
Speaker 1: But records show that Andrew Goldstein had been voluntary harraly
Speaker 1: hospitalized more than a dozen times before killing Kendra. In
Speaker 1: the few years before he killed her, he'd like more
Speaker 1: than a dozen times. His most recent stint had been
Speaker 1: just six weeks earlier, and in the two years before
Speaker 1: the attack, he had attacked physically with physical violence thirteen
Speaker 1: other people, including two psychiatrists, a nurse, a social worker,
Speaker 1: and a therapy aid. So every time he was hospitalized,
Speaker 1: he was medicated and then was discharged and gone to
Speaker 1: live and sent off to live by himself in this
Speaker 1: basement apartment that he lived in. But he wanted help,
Speaker 1: and social workers tried to That's why every time he
Speaker 1: went to the hospital it was on his own volition,
Speaker 1: like he went to the hospital for help. Social workers
Speaker 1: tried to place him in state hospitals, state finance group homes,
Speaker 1: single room occupancy hotels with counselors on staff or in
Speaker 1: the and care of intensive case managers. But they constantly
Speaker 1: butted heads with long waiting lists, and which was a
Speaker 1: result of severe budget cuts under Governor George Pataki. So
Speaker 1: after this attack happened, The New York Times wrote an
Speaker 1: article that called Pataki out and it basically worked, and
Speaker 1: Pataki put more money towards mental illness and signed off
Speaker 1: on Kendra's law in November of nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: So oh, I've heard about real. Yeah, this is a
Speaker 2: really interesting law and it's interesting.
Speaker 1: It's funny to me that the episode didn't bring it up,
Speaker 1: Like they talked about a mental hygiene warrant, which we
Speaker 1: talked about in the Nashaun Williams case about the man
Speaker 1: who was, you know, allegedly spreading HIV wantonly, But like,
Speaker 1: you know, Kendra's law would have been a perfect thing
Speaker 1: to incorporate into this episode. And maybe it was just
Speaker 1: too hard to explain or something. But it's a New
Speaker 1: York state law about involuntary outpatient commitment, also known as
Speaker 1: assisted outpatient treatment, which is known with abbreviation as AOT,
Speaker 1: and it grants a judge the authority to issue orders
Speaker 1: requiring people who meet certain criteria to regularly undergo psychiatric treatments.
Speaker 1: When we say outpatient, that means they can live their lives.
Speaker 1: They just are assigned mental health services. They don't get
Speaker 1: put into a place they can like be out out
Speaker 1: patient obviously, so the patient has to be eighteen years
Speaker 1: old suffering from mental illness, and a doctor has to
Speaker 1: like certify that they're unlikely to survive safely in the
Speaker 1: community without supervision. They can have a history of lack
Speaker 1: of compliance with treatment, and at least twice in the
Speaker 1: last thirty six months mental health had been a significant
Speaker 1: factor in necessitating hospitalization, or they've had serious acts of
Speaker 1: violence towards themself or others. So there's a lot of
Speaker 1: different caveats to this law, but you know that's the
Speaker 1: general and a patient can be ordered to assist to
Speaker 1: assisted out patient treatment for a maximum of twelventh period.
Speaker 1: Failure to comply could result in commitment for seventy two hours,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mandate that patients be forced to take medication,
Speaker 1: and there's no criminal penalty like if you have if
Speaker 1: Kendrick's law. If it's like invoked on you and you
Speaker 1: completely refuse, I guess they can commit you for seventy
Speaker 1: two hours, but then you don't go to jail or
Speaker 1: something for not doing it. And research has shown that
Speaker 1: the program is mostly effective. Apparently, this law was originally
Speaker 1: proposed by members of NAMI, the National Alliance of Mental Illness,
Speaker 1: which we have featured in our what was the ster
Speaker 1: Pegs segment before. So they were concerned that most of
Speaker 1: the laws were about preventing individuals with serious mental illness
Speaker 1: from receiving care until after they became dangerous to themselves
Speaker 1: or others. And they saw that outpatient commitment could have
Speaker 1: been could be a less expensive, less restrictive, and more
Speaker 1: humane alternative to inpatient commitment. There's a Duke professor of
Speaker 1: psychiatry and behavioral science who's run a lot of studies
Speaker 1: on this called Marvin Schwartz. Is it so Schwartz with
Speaker 1: no age anyway, Schwartz or Swarts And he says he
Speaker 1: said that one, it not only compels the patient, but
Speaker 1: it compels the government to do its part like housing, supervision, rehab,
Speaker 1: Kendrick's law, patients get to the head of the line.
Speaker 1: And the second thing it does is that by involving
Speaker 1: the courts, it makes everyone the patient, the government, and
Speaker 1: the families of the of the patient take treatment more seriously.
Speaker 1: It's I believe that it's worked well and it's like
Speaker 1: reduced hospitalizations, reduced you know, criminal charges and stuff with people.
Speaker 1: But it has been criticized for being under used and underfunded.
Speaker 1: At least forty seven states now have some kind of
Speaker 1: program spawned off of Kendra's Law, something that is AOT,
Speaker 1: but only New York mandates it as a as a
Speaker 1: state policy.
Speaker 3: Crazy.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, Oh, I wonder what the three states
Speaker 1: are that don't have it. It's Massachusetts, Maryland, and my
Speaker 1: home state of Connecticut.
Speaker 3: And I'm shocked.
Speaker 1: I don't know why they don't have this because it
Speaker 1: seems like a much more I don't know, like integrated
Speaker 1: and like dynamic way to handle someone that is a
Speaker 1: danger to themselves or others because of mental illness. So
Speaker 1: and again, I am researching this off of like articles.
Speaker 1: I only have a certain amount of time to get
Speaker 1: this into the podcast. If you're like a mental health
Speaker 1: professional and you are like, fuck Kendra's Law, please write
Speaker 1: to me, but come to me with calmness, because I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not a psychi or a mental health professional. I'm
Speaker 1: just going off of what I've read that it seems
Speaker 1: like the treatment of these programs have been known to
Speaker 1: reduce patient's risk of hospitalization, suicide, and violence. Other pros
Speaker 1: for people that are four Candra's Laws say that it
Speaker 1: incentivizes mentally ill people to stay in treatment, but others
Speaker 1: say that it drags them through a legal system after
Speaker 1: the healthcare system has failed them. And critics of the
Speaker 1: law also point out that there's a racial bias sometimes
Speaker 1: with because in two thousand and five, when The New
Speaker 1: York Times reported on this, a group called the New
Speaker 1: York Lawyers for the Public Interest found that black people
Speaker 1: were nearly five times as likely to have Candra's Law
Speaker 1: invoked on them as opposed to white people, and one
Speaker 1: of the lawyers for this group, a senior litigator for
Speaker 1: this group named Johnny Grisham, said, quote, it's important to
Speaker 1: know if our mental health policy is disproportionately taking away
Speaker 1: the freedom of groups who have been historically been oppressed
Speaker 1: end quote.
Speaker 3: So that is important.
Speaker 1: But because his group's study found that in about three
Speaker 1: nine hundred and fifty eight orders for treatment under Kendra's Law,
Speaker 1: forty two percent were black, but they only make up
Speaker 1: sixteen percent of the New York State population, while thirty
Speaker 1: four percent were white and they make up sixty two percent.
Speaker 3: So a spokesperson for the state's Office of.
Speaker 1: Mental Health said, her name is Jill Daniels, and she
Speaker 1: had a semen that says it's misleading to compare the
Speaker 1: race and ethnicity of those being treated under Kendra's law
Speaker 1: with the race and ethnicity of the general population. The
Speaker 1: law is used a lot more in urban populations, and
Speaker 1: like that's more the proportions are more similar to the
Speaker 1: adults that are receiving intensive care in those urban areas.
Speaker 3: And another argument is that.
Speaker 1: Black and Latino populations with mental illness might not have
Speaker 1: access to care at the onset of mental illness, which
Speaker 1: makes them more likely to end up in crisis that
Speaker 1: needs intervention. So these are just things I'm reading to
Speaker 1: try to present the pros and cons. Gresham and his
Speaker 1: group don't want to eliminate the law. They just want
Speaker 1: to remove the part about compulsory treatment but keep the
Speaker 1: part about offering better.
Speaker 3: Access to help mental health services.
Speaker 1: But then the argument for that is that that would
Speaker 1: like just hobble the law completely, like it wouldn't really
Speaker 1: be a lot Like most people are that are in
Speaker 1: the throes of a mental illness, that mental health event
Speaker 1: are not going to agree to this treatment. So that's
Speaker 1: the lowdown on Kendro's law. To get back to the
Speaker 1: man who did this crime, After two trials and a
Speaker 1: plea bargain, Andrew Goldstein was sentenced to twenty three years
Speaker 1: in prison. One of the judges that presided over his case,
Speaker 1: he's one of the longest standing judges in New York
Speaker 1: and actually just retired I think a.
Speaker 3: Few years ago.
Speaker 1: Judge Carol Berkman said of this case, quote, I have
Speaker 1: no doubt that someday, probably after we are all gone,
Speaker 1: people will look back at our treatment of mental illness
Speaker 1: under the law and be shocked and appalled.
Speaker 3: End quote. So yeah, as of.
Speaker 1: Twenty eighteen, there were four hundred thousand people incarcerated with
Speaker 1: mental illness, and unfortunately, like it's a cliche to say
Speaker 1: that prisons have become our mental institutions, but it's true.
Speaker 1: And Andrew Goldstein in twenty eighteen gave a very interesting
Speaker 1: interview with New York Magazine.
Speaker 3: It was written by two people.
Speaker 1: One person is an inmate at Sing Sing with him,
Speaker 1: and the other person is like a different writer for
Speaker 1: New York Magazine, and they wrote this together, and I
Speaker 1: just thought it was really cool the way this guy
Speaker 1: was like talking about why he was in jail versus
Speaker 1: why this guy's in jail, and like or prison, excuse me,
Speaker 1: and like, just he was able to interview him, like
Speaker 1: in the facility. So anyway, this article is really really interesting,
Speaker 1: and he showed in. So this interview takes place in
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, so almost twenty years after the crime has
Speaker 1: taken place, and Andrew's been in jail the entire time.
Speaker 1: And they show him a picture of Kendra and he says, quote,
Speaker 1: it stirs my emotions.
Speaker 3: A perfect woman. I know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. To destroy a perfect life like that
Speaker 1: is a horrible thing. I don't know why I did that. Obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, mental illness. He had no knowledge of his crime,
Speaker 1: which is interesting because the prosecution in the case tried
Speaker 1: to you know, they want to win. They want to
Speaker 1: win cases. Him pleading not guilty by reason of mental
Speaker 1: disease or defect puts him in a mental institution. It
Speaker 1: doesn't count towards their conviction rate. So he ended up
Speaker 1: pleading guilty to manslaughter. I think, and was like, so
Speaker 1: he knew he'd be able to get out one day,
Speaker 1: whereas the other way, he probably would have been in
Speaker 1: a mental institution for most of his adult life or
Speaker 1: living like the remainder of his life. And so they
Speaker 1: tried to paint this picture of Andrew as this guy
Speaker 1: whose mental illness was pretty mild, and he hated women
Speaker 1: and he wanted to harm them for revenge. But like,
Speaker 1: when this guy talks to Andrew, he's like, I'm not
Speaker 1: even like a sexual person. I've literally had two interactions
Speaker 1: with women that he can even recall, Like and one
Speaker 1: was like his friend's girlfriend who was an exotic dancer.
Speaker 3: He like let her.
Speaker 1: His friend was like, go have some fun with my girlfriend.
Speaker 1: He's like, I felt her boobs.
Speaker 3: That was it. Like he didn't.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like this was like motivated at all
Speaker 1: by in cell behavior. This was a guy who was
Speaker 1: having a full psychotic break and was off of his medication.
Speaker 1: He said he was still a virgin in prison at
Speaker 1: forty eight years old. So even he entered prison at
Speaker 1: twenty nine, and he had zero violent misbehavior reports in
Speaker 1: nineteen years of prison, so he was not you know,
Speaker 1: when he's on his schedule and on his medication, he's
Speaker 1: a non violent person. So Andrew Goldstein did get time
Speaker 1: off for good behavior and was released in September of
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen at forty nine years old, and the New
Speaker 1: York Times had an interesting quote where they said that
Speaker 1: he quote walked out of prison and into a mental
Speaker 1: health system that has been heavily influenced by his crime
Speaker 1: end quote. Like he got out of prison and he
Speaker 1: was being considered for the Kendrick's Law programs right out
Speaker 1: of jail because even though he hadn't committed any even
Speaker 1: right violent crimes recently, Like he probably needs to be
Speaker 1: under some kind of state mandated supervision.
Speaker 3: I can't find.
Speaker 1: Anything about what he's doing right now, obviously, I don't
Speaker 1: think anyone's like, but you know, hopefully he's staying on
Speaker 1: his medication and you know, he's served his time. And
Speaker 1: in February of twenty twenty one, Governor Cuomo suggested that
Speaker 1: we should expand Kendra's Law because there was an uptick
Speaker 1: of violent crime by people with untreated mental illness in
Speaker 1: New York City. But I'm like also, like, yeah, that
Speaker 1: was also the heart of the pandemic. Like I'm sure
Speaker 1: shit was going crazy. But the current New York Governor,
Speaker 1: Kathy hokeel ZAYI say her name Hockel, She's going to
Speaker 1: expand the law and is looking to reform it as well.
Speaker 1: So I think that most people if you look online,
Speaker 1: the people that our four Kendras law seem to be
Speaker 1: more than people that are against it. And even the
Speaker 1: people that are against it don't want to like get
Speaker 1: rid of it, they just want to change it. So
Speaker 1: a horrible tragedy something I've totally thought of. Like I
Speaker 1: step back every time a train comes. I always am
Speaker 1: looking for if anyone's behind me, Like I it's horrible,
Speaker 1: and it's happened many times in New York. I mean,
Speaker 1: people have been pushed in front of the tracks, they say,
Speaker 1: like you know, a few over a dozen times a
Speaker 1: year it happens, and a lot of times is by
Speaker 1: people with them, you know, mental health issues. And I'm
Speaker 1: just glad that this seems to be working for some people,
Speaker 1: you know, because like I was reading some article.
Speaker 3: I don't know the article in.
Speaker 1: New York magazine, like it's in the show notes, like,
Speaker 1: but it's so worth reading. It's really interesting. And they
Speaker 1: talk to one guy I forget. He's just kind of
Speaker 1: a person who's taken this up as like a personal
Speaker 1: thing where it's like when we talk about mental illness,
Speaker 1: it's like it's anything from depression. To someone like Andrew Goldstein,
Speaker 1: who has murderous tendencies. And it's like when you bank,
Speaker 1: when you put everybody under this mental health, mental health umbrella,
Speaker 1: then sometimes it feels like the most people who need
Speaker 1: the most help get lost. And I think that's sort
Speaker 1: of what Kendra's Law is trying to be like a
Speaker 1: bit of a safety net that grabs people like that.
Speaker 1: But that is as far as I can tell all
Speaker 1: that we have in common with Zebras the I would
Speaker 1: say the most insane episode of the entire series.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll go with it.
Speaker 2: Even Wildlife's a little more grounded, and that's like a
Speaker 2: monkey calming out of a basketball.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm sure that's all like real details from
Speaker 1: actual animal smuggling. I mean, has a CSU tech ever
Speaker 1: gone completely fucking postal and killed a bunch of people
Speaker 1: to a frame an actual murderer but also get his
Speaker 1: own revenge out on people like.
Speaker 3: It's great, It's it's nuts. Uh.
Speaker 1: And you know, wouldn't you love to know Sucky doesn't die?
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you love to see what stuck he's like in
Speaker 1: jail he's getting Oh that's actually making me sad. Stuck
Speaker 1: he's not been a good time in prison? Sure, or
Speaker 1: they like that he killed police people. Oh so maybe
Speaker 1: he becomes like a little leader there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would actually love Like, you know, sometimes they
Speaker 2: have to go to former con artists or criminals to
Speaker 2: help like crist present day criminals. I would love a
Speaker 2: Stucky return from prison helping them on a case, Like
Speaker 2: I would love that.
Speaker 3: That would be so okay sucky.
Speaker 1: So when you were planning evidence and going through a complete.
Speaker 2: Crazy we hate him and stuff, but now I want
Speaker 2: him back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'd love to know what kind of like
Speaker 1: little gang he's running in prison, the Big Bang Bong Crew.
Speaker 1: But don't go anywhere, because we have thrilling guests. Thrill
Speaker 1: be happy, guys. Our guest today is an SVU favorite
Speaker 1: who I believe has appeared in the most episodes of
Speaker 1: anyone who is not a full time cast member aside
Speaker 1: from a child.
Speaker 3: But you know, we love this We love this actor.
Speaker 1: He can be seen in other films like The Invitation
Speaker 1: and Rabbit Hole, and he wrote and directed the comedy
Speaker 1: Almost Love. But you know him as dearly departed forensics
Speaker 1: technician Ryan O'Halleran. Please enjoy our conversation with the very
Speaker 1: talented Mike Doyle.
Speaker 3: We so much for being here. We're really excited.
Speaker 1: This a big sv you get for us as you
Speaker 1: are a huge well you.
Speaker 3: Are, and Kara found that you have a record.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're the number one most well, you're the number
Speaker 1: two most recurring character on the show besides Noah Porter Benson.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that counts because that's three different actors.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you.
Speaker 3: Know, including twins.
Speaker 5: I didn't realize that held that distinction, but that's pretty cool.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Fifty three episode wow, wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fifty two as as O'Halloran, which I wanted to ask, like,
Speaker 1: how did this how did your SVU journey like kickoff?
Speaker 1: Because you were originally on season three in this episode
Speaker 1: called Prodigy, where you are by the way, the thumbnail
Speaker 1: on IMDb, so they probably thought you were a big
Speaker 1: deal and you're just playing like a medical an assistant Emmy,
Speaker 1: and then two seasons later you come back to start
Speaker 1: off as Oh, how did that work out?
Speaker 3: How did that go?
Speaker 6: So you know, I, like every actor in New York
Speaker 6: had been auditioning for SVU for a very long time unsuccessfully,
Speaker 6: and my agents were like, tomorrow, Toney can't do these reshoots.
Speaker 6: Would you consider filling in for her? And playing the part,
Speaker 6: and at first, you know, you're like, wait, I don't
Speaker 6: want to blow it on like the me. They're like no,
Speaker 6: but it's going to recur. So I'm like, I was like, dude,
Speaker 6: I was like, I got this recurring part on Law
Speaker 6: and Order SVU that never recurred.
Speaker 5: It's just like I.
Speaker 6: Did it, and I was. I have to say, I
Speaker 6: was pretty bad. I do remember Chris and Marishka on
Speaker 6: their off camera like because it's like, you know, it's
Speaker 6: it's a it's a it's a muscle. I learned to
Speaker 6: train and speak the speak. I think that's why I
Speaker 6: lasted as long as I did. But when I was
Speaker 6: playing tomorrow's part, I was I was messing up the
Speaker 6: language like left and right, and.
Speaker 5: Chris and Marishka are off camera like it's great, No,
Speaker 5: you got it, you got it, Like it's just awful.
Speaker 6: So yeah, so that recurring part never recurred and I
Speaker 6: was like, oh, that's amor. Cut to a couple of
Speaker 6: years later, I'm doing a play with Chad Lowe, who's
Speaker 6: friends with Marishka and Peter. They come to see the play.
Speaker 6: Chad's like, hey, they're having a game night on the
Speaker 6: Upper West Side.
Speaker 5: I'm like, I don't want to go.
Speaker 6: I'm not going to know anybody, like you know, it's
Speaker 6: like you get like weird and self conscious and all
Speaker 6: that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5: So I go there and Neil Bayer also was there.
Speaker 6: And I said for him, yeah, and Neil is the best,
Speaker 6: like he will talk about him, but I I remember
Speaker 6: when I met with him once on another unsuccessful SVU audition.
Speaker 5: He's like, oh, I wrote the episode of Er that
Speaker 5: you're in, which we shot in like.
Speaker 6: Nineteen ninety nine, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 6: I'm so proud of that work. Jessica Capshaw is my wife.
Speaker 6: I play this like you know, law student loses his mind. Anyway,
Speaker 6: it was a connect. And then he was at this party.
Speaker 6: We had a great time, like you know, playing running
Speaker 6: charades and like it was that. It was that Bob
Speaker 6: Balaband's like beautiful pre war, huge epic apartment.
Speaker 5: Martha Plimpton was there.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: It was just like a who's who and it was
Speaker 5: so fun.
Speaker 6: And then three weeks later I get a call and
Speaker 6: they're like, oh, hey, uh you there's a part, not
Speaker 6: the part you played, a new part on SVU that
Speaker 6: was just offered to me, which never happens as an actor.
Speaker 5: Would you do it? I was like, and then that
Speaker 5: was the beginning of my journey on SVA.
Speaker 3: You must have made an impression at that game night.
Speaker 5: I guess I did.
Speaker 2: And I mean, hopefully you've never missed a game night since.
Speaker 6: You know. That's what I when I meet with young actors,
Speaker 6: I'm like, go to everything.
Speaker 5: Yes, don't be a douche, but just go, Oh.
Speaker 2: My god, what a great story. I want to go
Speaker 2: to a game night at Bob Balaban's house. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's CSU language, easier than m E language.
Speaker 6: Uh No, it's funny because like you know, I you know,
Speaker 6: I've been off the show for a long time.
Speaker 5: So I'm like, I'm gonna go back.
Speaker 6: And I watched my first well parts of my first
Speaker 6: last night, because I do remember that, and then part
Speaker 6: and then I watched Zebra's and in that first episode
Speaker 6: I had to say, I'll put it in my gas chromatograph,
Speaker 6: mass spectrometer and ice ghost.
Speaker 5: To me, He's like, man, that sounds like you say
Speaker 5: that every day.
Speaker 6: I was like, I have been for the last five
Speaker 6: so I could say it properly here.
Speaker 5: But it was so that.
Speaker 6: Job was especially challenging because it's like speaking French without
Speaker 6: any sort of mastery, and it's like you don't have
Speaker 6: these scenes like with people in the sense that you're
Speaker 6: not really dialoguing with people.
Speaker 5: You're sort of monologuing and.
Speaker 6: Like, you know, forwarding the plot and invariably, you know,
Speaker 6: a director would be like, we're gonna do it in
Speaker 6: one so you would go from like your microscope to
Speaker 6: like your computer to like some other piece of machinery
Speaker 6: whilst saying all this like blood, spatterer pattern and you know,
Speaker 6: like all this crazy stuff. So I trained myself because
Speaker 6: I knew. I was like, if you can't say the
Speaker 6: words you're gonna I'm gonna be super short lived. So
Speaker 6: I would like vacuum my apartment. I would like, you know,
Speaker 6: clean my bathroom while doing my dialogue. So I could,
Speaker 6: you know, if they were like do it on your head,
Speaker 6: I'd be like, got it.
Speaker 3: Wow, Yeah, you're right. It is a lot of show
Speaker 3: and tell.
Speaker 2: You're like, the blood's over here, and look what I
Speaker 2: found here.
Speaker 6: I didn't wow, blood here and seamen all under my purview.
Speaker 2: Now when you did read Zebras, were you pissed? Did
Speaker 2: you have like a heads up. What were your thoughts about?
Speaker 5: Uh, yeah, it was I you know, because Stucky came on.
Speaker 6: I thought he was just this little annoying upstart, but
Speaker 6: he was you know, it was always designed for him
Speaker 6: to come in and kill me. But I didn't find
Speaker 6: out until Zebra's was released and I was doing a
Speaker 6: play up in Williamstown. It was like an hour before
Speaker 6: I went on stage and I got the call that
Speaker 6: they're like, they're going to kill you. And I was like, oh, so,
Speaker 6: yeah that play was not my best performance. My friends
Speaker 6: and it were like, dude, what's up. I was like, well,
Speaker 6: a nice long run is coming to an end, but yeah,
Speaker 6: what are you gonna do?
Speaker 3: I know, I can't believe it. No, heads up?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was, yeah, it was.
Speaker 6: But you know, look, I think the decision was made
Speaker 6: in fact, I you know, I know this.
Speaker 5: Neil has told me. It was in the beginning of
Speaker 5: the season.
Speaker 6: It was two thousand and eight and there was the
Speaker 6: financial crisis and they were worried about budgets and so
Speaker 6: they're like, we need to trim But there were a
Speaker 6: few of us that were on the chopping block. Judith
Speaker 6: light Me and I forget who This third one is
Speaker 6: but I think there was a death in the family
Speaker 6: when the skip the script broke, so they're like, well,
Speaker 6: we can't kill Judith light and so so another thing
Speaker 6: I tell young actors, I'm like, go to parties and
Speaker 6: if you think you're gonna get killed, have someone in
Speaker 6: your family die.
Speaker 3: That's great advice.
Speaker 5: And it's funny, you know.
Speaker 6: Watching Zebra's last night I was I was like, it's
Speaker 6: still and of course I'm biased, but like.
Speaker 5: It's still has a really nice look to it.
Speaker 6: And I think that was also something that Neil created,
Speaker 6: like it was very sort of you know, shadowy, contrasty dark.
Speaker 6: After I was off the show, I was shadowing Peter Leto,
Speaker 6: who directed, because I direct as well. And it was
Speaker 6: the episode with Isabell whu Pear and Sharon Stone.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it was the best.
Speaker 6: I mean powerhouses and uh it's an interrogation scene and
Speaker 6: is All watches the playback and it's at night and
Speaker 6: she just goes, I need more light. And the DP
Speaker 6: was like, yeah, I know, it's a night scene, and
Speaker 6: we played with contrasts. She's like, I need more light,
Speaker 6: and so they goosed up the light and then when
Speaker 6: they set the camera she's like she's like motioning for
Speaker 6: them to raise it a little higher, because you know,
Speaker 6: she knows, she knows how to photograph herself.
Speaker 3: She knows her angles.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: At that point we also always reminisced the Neil barriers.
Speaker 3: There was like humor underneath it all too.
Speaker 2: There was like a current of funny and yeah we
Speaker 2: miss it, but away no.
Speaker 6: Shit, yeah, I mean there's the uh I mean just
Speaker 6: in Zebra's that whole.
Speaker 5: Bing bang bong thing.
Speaker 3: Oh god.
Speaker 6: I also had I can tell this because Chris is
Speaker 6: good friend. But when you were saying about the language,
Speaker 6: I also had like some motivation, which was, you know,
Speaker 6: because everybody it's like it's you know, the show. It's
Speaker 6: fourteen hours a day, sometimes more, and everybody just wants
Speaker 6: to like, you know, go home. And you know, bloopers
Speaker 6: are funny on a blooper reel, but when they happen
Speaker 6: in the moment, it's not funny because it's time, it's money,
Speaker 6: it's all this, So you know, there's a there's a
Speaker 6: pressure to perform. But Chris would occasionally give me a
Speaker 6: little football tap in the butt if I got like
Speaker 6: one take and i'd I was like, I did it. Chris,
Speaker 6: it's motivation, motivation enough for me.
Speaker 3: What do you so? You said you and Maloney are pals.
Speaker 2: What do you make of you know, his his new
Speaker 2: Zadi status, his butt taking over the internet?
Speaker 6: Etca excit zady status.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but like you know now, it's on
Speaker 1: the cover of People magazine.
Speaker 6: I've posted this picture you can see in my Instagram.
Speaker 6: We have a picture of Chris. This is at a
Speaker 6: party at Marishka's house. He's straddled doing a split and
Speaker 6: I'm behind him like this with a drink resting on
Speaker 6: his buttsheet.
Speaker 5: I mean, because it's it's you know, it's a shove.
Speaker 3: It seems like a stable surface.
Speaker 5: Yeah, carry and drink.
Speaker 2: So you you guys knew ahead of, ahead of the
Speaker 2: times that the ass was great, Yeah, before the public.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I clocked that pretty early on.
Speaker 3: Absolutely well.
Speaker 2: It's also fun to hear like sillier stories about Maloney
Speaker 2: because a lot of people say he's very serious, he's
Speaker 2: stretching and like Marishka's kind of a silly one and
Speaker 2: he so it's nice to hear some silly They're.
Speaker 5: Both pretty silly, you know.
Speaker 6: I think they have to be serious to a point
Speaker 6: to you know, to produce that show, you know, day
Speaker 6: after day after day. But like there is definitely there
Speaker 6: was always a sense of fun and a sense of
Speaker 6: play and and it was you know, it was a
Speaker 6: great set to be on.
Speaker 5: Really.
Speaker 3: So I read that.
Speaker 1: I read the New York Times article that they did
Speaker 1: on you, like twelve thirteen years ago about how you
Speaker 1: died so many times on screen. Did that lower the
Speaker 1: number of times that you got killed or because I
Speaker 1: feel like then, since then, I've seen you die a
Speaker 1: couple more times.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I think that is the fate of
Speaker 6: like many a guest star that you know, you're expendable.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know how many times I died when
Speaker 6: that article was like seven nine something.
Speaker 1: At the time of the article, it was seven, but
Speaker 1: it's got to be up highed now because.
Speaker 6: I'm sure I've got a good five on top of that. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you know, it's funny because like I was thinking, you know,
Speaker 6: a friend of mine was a is a is a
Speaker 6: writer at the Times, and I was like, and I
Speaker 6: was telling him, I was like, oh, I was like,
Speaker 6: I just found out I'm getting killed again.
Speaker 5: He's like, don't you get killed a lot? And I
Speaker 5: was like, yeah, I guess I do.
Speaker 6: He's like there might be a story in that, So
Speaker 6: he pitched it to one of his one of his
Speaker 6: co workers, and then they did the story and then
Speaker 6: there was like a Nightline episode and the CNN thing
Speaker 6: and now it's sort of that thing that people are like, oh,
Speaker 6: you're gonna die in this, you know, and like, no,
Speaker 6: I'm hopefully going to stay alive.
Speaker 2: And it was cute how it ended with your mom
Speaker 2: being like just calling the check if you're okay, like you,
Speaker 2: she has to keep watching her some die. Mom's do
Speaker 2: you do any like specific prep for a death scene? Like,
Speaker 2: I mean, I know in the article you talk about
Speaker 2: how you'd prefer to die with your eyes open rather
Speaker 2: than with your eyes closed, but like, yeah, what do
Speaker 2: you You talked to like Anthony Rapp who had to
Speaker 2: like lie in blood for a long time on his episode,
Speaker 2: and he was like it was so annoying, like I'm freezing,
Speaker 2: Like but you know that.
Speaker 6: In Zebras, I think that scene that last big chunk.
Speaker 6: I think we shot it over three days, which is
Speaker 6: a long long time. So they would wrap me in
Speaker 6: like dry cleaner bags to keep the blood wet in
Speaker 6: between takes and then yeah, because I was laying there
Speaker 6: for quite a bit of that what was going on
Speaker 6: even though you know you don't see it in certain shots,
Speaker 6: but they you know, they always keep you around.
Speaker 3: And you would just like bounce to lunch with like
Speaker 3: wet blood all over yourself and then come back.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just another day.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're in another hugely iconic, beloved show on this podcast,
Speaker 2: and that is Sex and the City. Ah, anything you'd
Speaker 2: like to tell us about your time on set?
Speaker 6: That was also an amazing show to be on at
Speaker 6: that time. I think it was season It was like
Speaker 6: the third season, so it had you know, it had
Speaker 6: it's like it was really being celebrated. And I had
Speaker 6: met Michael Patrick King through some through X actually and
Speaker 6: and oh god, I was. It was like it was
Speaker 6: not a great time for me because I was like
Speaker 6: I had survival jobs that were not the best and
Speaker 6: like things sort of were, you know, stalling. And I
Speaker 6: was in New York and Michael Patrick King was like, oh,
Speaker 6: there's this part on you know, playing John Slattery's campaign manager.
Speaker 6: Would you come in and read for it? I was
Speaker 6: like one hundred. So I went out to a story.
Speaker 6: I think there was a silver cup. I read for it,
Speaker 6: and this is the only time it's ever happened to me.
Speaker 6: But it was the greatest thing ever. At the end
Speaker 6: of it, he goes, that was great. He's like, do
Speaker 6: you want to play the part?
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: It was pretty cool. It was pretty cool.
Speaker 6: And he's he's amazing and awesome and Slattery is is fantastic.
Speaker 5: Who's still a good friend? And yeah we had a great.
Speaker 3: You're really popular all these friends.
Speaker 6: I don't know about that, but it's so funny because
Speaker 6: like my cousins in New Jersey who are like, you know,
Speaker 6: you know, like there, you wouldn't necessarily think, you know,
Speaker 6: the guys would be watching sex in the city and
Speaker 6: they're like, Mike, why did you say no?
Speaker 5: What was his name?
Speaker 3: Willie Garson?
Speaker 5: To Willie, it's like, say no, damn. I was like, well,
Speaker 5: I didn't write it.
Speaker 3: You wanted a muscle guy.
Speaker 2: Well this might be silly, but yes, Stabler, Benson, munch Finn,
Speaker 2: who is the Carrie, Miranda, Samantha Charlotte.
Speaker 3: I want to play this. This is too hard.
Speaker 1: I saw Lisa wrote this question and I was like
Speaker 1: trying to do it in my head. I was like,
Speaker 1: who's the sluttiest one? I don't know, Benn, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think Munch has been married like six times clubs.
Speaker 5: But but who do we want to be the sluttiest?
Speaker 5: Is the question?
Speaker 3: Okay? I like where you're going with the.
Speaker 5: Who's the carry? I mean, Marishka has got to be
Speaker 5: the carry?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's that's pretty alb. Who's the Charlotte? Let's go back,
Speaker 6: let's go kind of.
Speaker 2: Stabler's a Charlotte because he's so Catholic and he's always
Speaker 2: like acting like what the rules are and telling Marishka
Speaker 2: like what's what in terms of like what people what,
Speaker 2: what kids should be able to do, what women should
Speaker 2: be able to do and stuff.
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's just that's the Catholic.
Speaker 2: Oh that's Protestant. I always mess that up. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: forget that. Yeah, I forget.
Speaker 5: One of those Christian ones.
Speaker 6: Oh God, that's really hard.
Speaker 5: Uh yeah, what if?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 5: I feel like Munch is like the what's the Cynthia
Speaker 5: next one?
Speaker 3: Miranda?
Speaker 6: I feel like that's Munch, and then that gives us
Speaker 6: Samantha and Charlotte.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I don't feel like I don't feel like Finn is
Speaker 6: too slutty though, but he's not so innocent either.
Speaker 1: But he also has like the good one liners and
Speaker 1: is like really deadpan the way that Samantha kind of is.
Speaker 6: So yes, it's you know, there was one episode I
Speaker 6: forget what it was, Ice, one of the you know,
Speaker 6: stalwart episodic directors came up, and you know, it was like,
Speaker 6: I I think, you know in the scene, you know,
Speaker 6: you just got the news, you know, and so there's
Speaker 6: a there's a pressure of time and like.
Speaker 5: You know, maybe some more urgency.
Speaker 6: And I was like okay, and the director was the
Speaker 6: way and he says to me, it's like no matter
Speaker 6: he goes, no matter why it is or how no, no,
Speaker 6: what do you say, No matter what it is or why.
Speaker 5: It is, he goes. I say it the same way.
Speaker 5: It's so great. Ice is the best.
Speaker 6: He's he's he's like such a such a good heart,
Speaker 6: sweet guy.
Speaker 3: And yeah you met Coco. Oh yeah, we heard cocos
Speaker 3: out a lot on the set.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, she was there.
Speaker 6: Her mom hung out to Coco's mom who they look
Speaker 6: like their sisters.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I've seen her.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He's got this like viral clip going from like a
Speaker 1: Late Night show where he when he found out what
Speaker 1: residuals were, like he thought he was only gonna do
Speaker 1: SVU for like a season or two, and then he
Speaker 1: found out what residuals were and he's like, I'm staying
Speaker 1: here for as long as I can.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the gift that keeps on giving, it is.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm very grateful to Neil Bayer for, you know,
Speaker 6: really changing my life.
Speaker 2: You did give us some tidbits, you know, iced tea
Speaker 2: stay able. Are there are, Maloney, Are there any other
Speaker 2: like really fun moments with the cast or being on
Speaker 2: set that stick out to you that you think our
Speaker 2: listeners or us would be kind of obsessed with.
Speaker 5: We have, Like I mean, there's some gag reeal moments
Speaker 5: like with.
Speaker 6: You know, I always felt like I had to you know,
Speaker 6: like you know, because this is like when you come
Speaker 6: in for you know, as a guest. You know, you
Speaker 6: want to not take too much license. But like Mariska
Speaker 6: would be like she's like a okay, she's like in this.
Speaker 6: In this you know, there's the one where we sing
Speaker 6: solid like a rock, but solid like Barack because I
Speaker 6: think he was just elected two thousand eight, Okay, And
Speaker 6: we there's a nice little outtake. Oh and then there's
Speaker 6: one I don't know where this this footage exists, if
Speaker 6: it does, but oh, and now I'm remembering a few
Speaker 6: other things too. But when she'd won the Golden Globe,
Speaker 6: there was a scene in an apartment and I had
Speaker 6: the blunt instrument that was the mode of assault or
Speaker 6: killing someone.
Speaker 5: I don't remember.
Speaker 6: But then and we had shot it, and like it
Speaker 6: was clear that we were done shooting the scene, and
Speaker 6: the director's like, no, no, no.
Speaker 5: We need one more. And was like what She's like,
Speaker 5: why do we need one more? And they gave me
Speaker 5: her golden globe.
Speaker 6: So I was like, well it was it was clearly
Speaker 6: carried out with this blood instrument, and I just grabbed it.
Speaker 6: Like there was a There was another one where Peter
Speaker 6: had to I was on a I don't know what
Speaker 6: episode it was, but I was on a ladder and
Speaker 6: I had to reach into a wall niche and like
Speaker 6: take out something, and they put in black bean.
Speaker 3: Dip, No, not black bean dip.
Speaker 6: And of course, when you don't know it's black bean dip,
Speaker 6: you're like, what is this squisky brown material?
Speaker 5: You're soaking in it?
Speaker 2: I do see the almost love poster behind you. I'm
Speaker 2: actually in Michelle Buteau's Netflix show and yeah, we were.
Speaker 3: Filming last night and I told her that I was
Speaker 3: going to name drop her.
Speaker 5: Oh that's so fantastic. So are you in it? Are
Speaker 5: you in Atlanta now?
Speaker 3: No, we're shooting in Bushwick.
Speaker 6: You.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I didn't know. That's right. The other show
Speaker 5: that she's on is in yeah, The.
Speaker 3: First Wives Club. Yeah, The First Wives is in Atlanta.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Oh, congrats, that's so great. I read the pilot.
Speaker 6: She sent me the pilot, and I love Michelle more
Speaker 6: than words can express. And she she is just like
Speaker 6: a force of nature, so funny and also so big hearted.
Speaker 6: And you know, when we met for my film, we
Speaker 6: just had a meeting over coffee and like, you know,
Speaker 6: both of us did our funny, did our funny, but
Speaker 6: then we dropped into this like really deep place about
Speaker 6: our families and like you know, all the you know
Speaker 6: michig as that that entails and and I was like, oh,
Speaker 6: this is a woman who who I want to get
Speaker 6: to know more and I think will bring so much
Speaker 6: to the part.
Speaker 5: And she did. She just is I can't say enough
Speaker 5: about her.
Speaker 2: She's really town she's said really amazing things about you
Speaker 2: as well, and she loved doing that movie. But sometimes
Speaker 2: I'll watch it's like she's a really good actress.
Speaker 3: It's really cool to watch her.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I saw her.
Speaker 6: She had a she you know, does the show Adulting,
Speaker 6: and I went to her live show with Colin Donnell,
Speaker 6: who plays her love interest in the movie, and she
Speaker 6: was just talking about, like in the they had a
Speaker 6: guest on, but they were talking about like body positivity,
Speaker 6: and she's just like, she's like, you know, She's like, actually,
Speaker 6: I got to play a part where I had a
Speaker 6: sex scene and I wasn't the best friend the next day,
Speaker 6: who was like, how was it. She's like, and the
Speaker 6: guy who wrote it is here, and the guy who
Speaker 6: I was in bed with this here and then and
Speaker 6: then she was talking about first kisses and she's.
Speaker 5: Like, Mike, you have a story. Come on up. And
Speaker 5: I was like, oh no, I was like, no, I'm good.
Speaker 5: She's like, come on, come up.
Speaker 6: And so I told the story on her show and
Speaker 6: I felt so sort of like, you know, it was
Speaker 6: it was an honor to be part of it.
Speaker 3: Well, are you gonna talk about the first kiss or what?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 6: It was in a It was in a made for
Speaker 6: TV movie when they used to have m Ow's Movies
Speaker 6: of the Week.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, I saw that on your eye.
Speaker 6: It was called on the Plane Road later. A Loss
Speaker 6: of Innocence is a Mormon tragic love story set in
Speaker 6: the twenties with nine O two one o's Jenny Garth
Speaker 6: and Melrose places Rob esties. I'm married to Jenny. We
Speaker 6: own a dairy farm. My half brother Rob comes into town.
Speaker 6: He's a piano teacher. He starts teaching my wife piano.
Speaker 6: They get two clothes. I'm like, what's going on? And
Speaker 6: we go out on the deer hunt. She forgets to
Speaker 6: pack my jacket. He shoots me dead.
Speaker 3: First death.
Speaker 5: Yeah, first death. And uh yeah, so oh so the kiss.
Speaker 6: So Jenny and I had to kiss, and I'd never
Speaker 6: kissed on screen before, and and so I go in
Speaker 6: for the kiss and they're like kiss, kiss, and she
Speaker 6: pushes me away and she's like, no town, and the
Speaker 6: whole crew is like, what.
Speaker 5: Did I didn't know?
Speaker 3: I want to make it look real. I got it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, no one teaches these little these things until
Speaker 2: you're there and you stick your tongue into some way.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean especially back then there was you know,
Speaker 6: we didn't have intimacy coordinators because it was the olden days,
Speaker 6: you know.
Speaker 5: So yeah, no one taught me that.
Speaker 3: Is a cute story. I like that. I want to
Speaker 3: watch it.
Speaker 2: Well, And you have a new movie, right and is
Speaker 2: it in post product that you wrote directed and.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and your yeah passing through it's called uh yeah,
Speaker 6: it's it's out.
Speaker 5: To festivals now and we'll see. We're waiting to see
Speaker 5: where it lands.
Speaker 6: But I am in it, uh, Amy Ryan, of many
Speaker 6: many things, isn't it.
Speaker 3: She's awesome.
Speaker 2: And you like writing directing obviously you like that as
Speaker 2: much as acting or.
Speaker 5: I do, Yeah, I do.
Speaker 6: I've got a couple of other things that I'm you know,
Speaker 6: on various stages of not happening, but you know, eventually
Speaker 6: they will, you know, everything as you know, moves like
Speaker 6: at a snail's pace, and then it, you know, takes off.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I'm trying to direct more actually than I've
Speaker 6: got a you know a couple of writing projects. But like,
Speaker 6: directing is the thing that I really love because it,
Speaker 6: I don't know, it just brings together so many things
Speaker 6: that I love to do, you know, work with actors,
Speaker 6: work with people, create like a positive, safe environment where
Speaker 6: people can sort of shine and do their best. I
Speaker 6: mean that sounds so ridiculously lofty, but I just I
Speaker 6: like people and I like you know, it's uh, I
Speaker 6: love you know, making almost love was. It nearly killed
Speaker 6: me because it was so intense and so hard. But like,
Speaker 6: I've never been so energized and present and happy than
Speaker 6: in that month that we shot that.
Speaker 3: Oh that's awesome. You should direct it, gon sp you
Speaker 3: that's exactly what.
Speaker 2: You know. That's Chad Lowe's first directing was I know, yes,
Speaker 2: now he directs all over the all over the place.
Speaker 5: I know he's such a good guy.
Speaker 3: Wait, do you.
Speaker 1: Want to tell us really about also about the Accidental Wolf?
Speaker 1: Is what that's like? A oh project that's going on
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: So The Accidental Wolf was created by Arian Moyett, who
Speaker 6: is Stewie on Succession.
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say family guy and
Speaker 2: I was like, no way.
Speaker 6: Stewie right, Yeah, he's Stewie and he's an amazing you know,
Speaker 6: he's nominated for Tony for his work on Broadway.
Speaker 5: Years ago.
Speaker 6: He had this idea for this thriller series and he's like,
Speaker 6: here's the pilot script, Kelly.
Speaker 5: O'Hara is going to play your wife. You're this couple
Speaker 5: that gets sort of.
Speaker 6: Pulled into what appears to be like a phone scam,
Speaker 6: but it's actually it's actually a bigger web of intrigue
Speaker 6: that he was able to raise the money and develop
Speaker 6: into three seasons with a remarkable cast, like it's Kelly
Speaker 6: O'Hara and Judith White plays my mom, and Dennis O'Hare
Speaker 6: and Lorie Metcalf. It's like a who's who, like Arian
Speaker 6: talk about people, who knows people and like has a
Speaker 6: lot of friends. Arian is like fantastic because he's just
Speaker 6: an amazing guy and people are like, yeah, come out
Speaker 6: for you know, one hundred and fifty bucks and play
Speaker 6: for a day or whatever. And so season three takes
Speaker 6: us deeper into this web. Kelly, who's my wife, is
Speaker 6: trying to rescue the person that she perceives to be
Speaker 6: at the end of this fake scam phone call. I
Speaker 6: play her husband, Bradley, who's a real douchebag.
Speaker 5: Running for congress and uh, but it's uh.
Speaker 6: It's a high stakes, high action, high octane thriller on Topic,
Speaker 6: which was just one of the new streaming services that
Speaker 6: I think people will enjoy it. It's like it's very
Speaker 6: digestible in that like it moves very quickly, very like
Speaker 6: short sort of chapters that you know that are sort
Speaker 6: of you know, compel you to press next episode.
Speaker 2: Amazing, Yeah, binge able love that. We had a blast
Speaker 2: talking to you. I feel like we could talk to
Speaker 2: you for another two hours, but sous talked to you.
Speaker 5: It has such a fun walk down memory lane.
Speaker 4: Good.
Speaker 2: Thank you and thank you for all the tidbits and
Speaker 2: little moments because we we don't always get those, so
Speaker 2: thank you for so elsteners.
Speaker 3: Are going to love that stuff. So that's awesome. Thank
Speaker 3: you so much.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the show is great.
Speaker 6: I listened to I listened to a couple episodes before
Speaker 6: I came on, and you know, just so I get
Speaker 6: a sense and like you have you know, a it's
Speaker 6: a you have a nice h dynamic and before and
Speaker 6: like you get your guests to say some great and
Speaker 6: hopefully not two incriminating things.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Do you think we can hang out with him?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It feels I mean we have a mutual friend. It
Speaker 3: feels like we could. I don't know.
Speaker 2: He's so cool, creative, looks amazing for his age, fun, charismatic,
Speaker 2: No wonder he's so popular, great memory and an overall
Speaker 2: great guest. Yeah, I mean, well, it's annoying. We can't
Speaker 2: say he's a cast member because.
Speaker 1: He is no full Yeah, you have a cast member,
Speaker 1: but just not in the let's just say not in
Speaker 1: the opening pack shot.
Speaker 3: Never in the opening shot.
Speaker 2: Well, and I'm sure the deal wasn't as good listen
Speaker 2: as someone that's now a guests are not a recurring
Speaker 2: there's a difference.
Speaker 3: But ah, in our heart he is the cast. What
Speaker 3: am I even saying? I don't even know anymore? But yeah,
Speaker 3: well that was it was just a treat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this episode, listen, I appreciate that s few
Speaker 1: has been on for twenty four seasons. I think they
Speaker 1: can drive a little bit off the side of the
Speaker 1: road sometimes, and that's definitely what this episode is. It's
Speaker 1: like the wildest, most unhinged twists.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just want to know what Neil Bahar
Speaker 2: and everyone was thinking of, like, we need a stucky,
Speaker 2: we need someone to drive, Like, I wonder what the
Speaker 2: discussion was, what the motivation was to have someone so
Speaker 2: annoying and incompetent and an evil break like and why
Speaker 2: they really wanted to kill someone because it was the
Speaker 2: season finale, so they really wanted to end with a bang,
Speaker 2: Like I wonder if there was a lot of discussion.
Speaker 2: It's just it's interesting how they decided to irk all
Speaker 2: the detectives.
Speaker 1: Was Stucky, Yes, Yeah, how they brought in this like
Speaker 1: truly cartoonish character and then made him not only the
Speaker 1: wildest like attitude in person, but then also made him
Speaker 1: a murderer and a full psychopath. But I guess, you know,
Speaker 1: he's an example of of what happens when you bully
Speaker 1: someone too much. I suppose everybody, Uh, just be a
Speaker 1: little kinder to the Stucky in your life or they'll
Speaker 1: probably kill you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But he was unwilling to learn either, because it was
Speaker 2: like he was rude in other episodes and Sailor kept
Speaker 2: trying to help him, like, yeah, can you not make
Speaker 2: fun of the baby in the shallow grave please, like
Speaker 2: stop hitting her with the shovel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then he.
Speaker 2: Does it again and it's like, ah, the camera's bullshit.
Speaker 2: You know, It's like he keeps not learning because if
Speaker 2: he was annoying but was like got it boss and
Speaker 2: changed or.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he doesn't have the sensitivity chip.
Speaker 1: You know how Jennifer Aniston used to say Brad Pitt
Speaker 1: was like missing a sensitivity chip or something like that.
Speaker 1: I think that's what Stucky's missing as well, doesn't have it.
Speaker 2: I forgot about that. That wasn't that was a big
Speaker 2: pop culture, big moment. That was a huge moment that
Speaker 2: he fucking left her. I bet he regrets it. Well, no,
Speaker 2: because now he has all these kids. I'm sure he
Speaker 2: really loves but I bet he regrets what he did
Speaker 2: to Aniston now that he's like, yeah, an alcoholic with
Speaker 2: terrible tattoos.
Speaker 3: You know, who's like in a lawsuit with his wife
Speaker 3: over their vineyard. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I don't know what other post mortem like takeaways
Speaker 1: we have from this episode, because it is so I
Speaker 1: guess know.
Speaker 2: Your friends know your friends, and if someone says they're
Speaker 2: eating something they shouldn't be eating, you call the authorities
Speaker 2: if someone's not there or answering. Yeah, but that happened
Speaker 2: once where you weren't answering any calls or texts, and
Speaker 2: I don't think Jared was either, And I got into
Speaker 2: my car to drive to your house, and then finally
Speaker 2: Jared's like, she's sleeping and I went, okay, well that's fine,
Speaker 2: but it just doesn't make sense to what her person.
Speaker 2: So I got in my car to go to your house.
Speaker 2: I don't know what was gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I love it you were gonna face off against my stucky.
Speaker 2: Kind of well, because you know, if I slept in
Speaker 2: it would be a little different. But for you because
Speaker 2: it was also in the afternoon, so you would have
Speaker 2: but you were sick, you had COVID or something. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it made sense. But once finally Jared was able to respond.
Speaker 2: But in that moment, I was like, something, something's up.
Speaker 2: That's so funny. I was calling Lauren. I was like,
Speaker 2: do you know what's going on? And you were just
Speaker 2: like sleeping, which is a normal human activity.
Speaker 3: Everyone deserves rest. I just it was not.
Speaker 2: I am usually quite responsive and I'm usually never sleeping,
Speaker 2: and I usually have COVID too, So yeah, it's it
Speaker 2: was a weird combo.
Speaker 1: But yeah, also, I mean, I don't know. This episode
Speaker 1: did have a lot of like there was like some
Speaker 1: you know, there was a lot about mental illness that
Speaker 1: that is really it brought a lot of that to light.
Speaker 3: That was Oh, it's scary.
Speaker 2: And sad, and this is a controversial take, so you know,
Speaker 2: but you know a lot of the people commenting about
Speaker 2: Kanye is very much like mental health issues do not
Speaker 2: make you anti black and anti Semitic and and you know,
Speaker 2: miss agist or whatever. But then it's like if you
Speaker 2: are suffering from schizophrenia, it might make you those things,
Speaker 2: like you might if you can think aliens are after
Speaker 2: you or you know, satellites are following your every move?
Speaker 3: Is that that big of a leap? And are we not?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Like why would that be?
Speaker 1: So if you think exactly if I agree with you, actually,
Speaker 1: I think if you can think that aliens are following
Speaker 1: people are following you, then why could you not think
Speaker 1: that the Jews control the government? Like these are these
Speaker 1: are tidbits you've read somewhere on the internet by people
Speaker 1: that are anti Semitic, and now you're like manifesting they're
Speaker 1: being manifested like into your mental illness. I feel like
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. It's the Kanye thing
Speaker 1: is is like very fucked up and sad. I don't
Speaker 1: I think we need to stop giving him a platform?
Speaker 3: Is the problem?
Speaker 2: Yes, that's the thing. It's like stop letting him on
Speaker 2: your shows. For each Yeah, guys like put you know,
Speaker 2: he needs like a seventy two hour psychhold or something.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But and I also understand the position of like people
Speaker 2: that stuff for mental illness, being like, don't lump me
Speaker 2: in with that guy, like I don't become racist.
Speaker 3: You can't say that, sure that.
Speaker 2: I'm also like, yeah, but you can't say it can't
Speaker 2: lead to this, like who fucking knows?
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know, well, right, I don't think.
Speaker 1: We're saying like yeah, because I don't think anyone's saying
Speaker 1: all mentally like mental illness is anything from like you know,
Speaker 1: isn't it anything from like depression all the way to
Speaker 1: like complete disassociative fugue states. I mean, like it's a spectrum.
Speaker 1: So it's like, no, we're not. No one's trying to
Speaker 1: lump anyone into any group, you know. I think it's
Speaker 1: like you're just I do think it's possible that part
Speaker 1: of this is or that that maybe he does have
Speaker 1: these feelings somewhat deep down, but he's not like but
Speaker 1: but the mental illness is exacerbating like how vocal he's being,
Speaker 1: how how violent he's being about.
Speaker 2: It, Whereas I with you or someone else that we
Speaker 2: were talking about, someone that ended up having Alzheimer's or
Speaker 2: a stroke, and after the stroke they just couldn't keep
Speaker 2: their inner thoughts in her anymore.
Speaker 1: Me Me, I have a family friend who had a stroke,
Speaker 1: and like, after he had a stroke, he just started
Speaker 1: saying everything he thought like no small, like any small
Speaker 1: fleeting thought that you'd be like, wow, thank god, no
Speaker 1: one can get into my mind. He was just pushing
Speaker 1: them all out. So yeah, and that's from a stroke,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, like, I don't know things happen.
Speaker 1: The brain is a complex thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just stopped fucking with him years ago. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: guess the people that are newly distraught, it's like weird
Speaker 2: gi he was before, he was antimic, antisemitic, he was
Speaker 2: like a narcissist asshole, Like I haven't liked him for
Speaker 2: a long time. Yeah, yeah, but you know whatever.
Speaker 3: But yes, we're giving him a platform now, yeah, we're
Speaker 3: giving let's go.
Speaker 1: But this leads us right into Sister Peg or what
Speaker 1: would Sister Peg do? Segment, which you guys know is
Speaker 1: every week we try to give you guys an organization,
Speaker 1: a book, an article, a podcast, something to help you
Speaker 1: know inform more of what we talked about in today's episode,
Speaker 1: and this week we would like to point you towards
Speaker 1: the Treatment Advocacy Center, who's stated is to quote eliminate
Speaker 1: barriers to the treatment of mental illness, and the organization
Speaker 1: does a lot. They've created a manual for mental health
Speaker 1: professionals who are implementing assisted outpatient treatment that we talked
Speaker 1: about in the Kendrew webdail case. They offer volunteer opportunities
Speaker 1: and they advocate for the decriminalization of mental illness. And
Speaker 1: if you want more information about them, go over to
Speaker 1: Treatment Advocacycenter dot org and that, as always, will be
Speaker 1: linked to in our stories the day the episode is
Speaker 1: released and saved forever in a highlight on our Instagram
Speaker 1: called WWSPD.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2: And next week, our first time ever, we're doing a doubleheader,
Speaker 2: double episodes.
Speaker 1: You gotta us double the homework, guys, schedule it out.
Speaker 1: It's the holidays, You're gonna have some extra time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Season seventeen, episodes twenty two and twenty three, intersecting lives
Speaker 2: and heartfelt passages, enjoy and feel sad, have fun, guys.
Speaker 2: I that's messed up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Kac O'Brien, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.
Speaker 2: And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 2: gen Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dud The dun