WEBVTT - Daveed Diggs on the Need for Artistic Expression | From Who's With Me? with W. Kamau Bell

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey everybody, it's me W camout Bell. I'm dropping into

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<v Speaker 2>your feed today to bring your preview of my new podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>Who's with Me Now. If you know me in my work,

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<v Speaker 2>I like to have conversations, but not just regular conversations.

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<v Speaker 2>I like to have conversations that focus on the big talk,

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<v Speaker 2>the big things. So I'm talking to some people, reached

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<v Speaker 2>out to friends of mine, people I admire, to ask

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<v Speaker 2>them things that I really want to know, and also

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<v Speaker 2>to give them their flowers. I hope you enjoy it,

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<v Speaker 2>and if you do, find Who's with Me with W

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<v Speaker 2>cam al Bell wherever you listen to your podcasts. Push

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<v Speaker 2>can Plus subscribers can hear each episode ad free. Sign

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<v Speaker 2>up on the Who's with Me with W kmal Bell

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<v Speaker 2>show page on Apple or at pushkin dot Fm, slash plus.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey everybody, it's me W Cabell. Welcome to episode five

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<v Speaker 2>of Who's With Me? And also, if you're on YouTube

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<v Speaker 2>like subscribe, hit that hype button. I hear that hype

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<v Speaker 2>button is important. I hypet things now too, so hit

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<v Speaker 2>that hype button. If you're on the regular podcast apps,

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<v Speaker 2>just subscribe, and you know, hit the share button. Share

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<v Speaker 2>with a friend everybody, please share this podcast with your friends.

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<v Speaker 2>That's how we build this It's really going well right now.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really excited about it, but we got to share

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<v Speaker 2>it with the friends. Please share it with your friends.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>Today the guest is David Diggs. Super excited to have

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<v Speaker 2>him on. The conversation was great. You may know David

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<v Speaker 2>from the most recent season of The Boys. You may

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<v Speaker 2>know him as one of the stars of the musical

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<v Speaker 2>Hamilton on Broadway. You might know him from his rap

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<v Speaker 2>group clipping he's a rapper, or you may know him

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<v Speaker 2>from just Lots of Stuff snow Piercer. The dude works hard.

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<v Speaker 2>We talk about working hard and the importance of being

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<v Speaker 2>with your family. We also talk about the importance of

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<v Speaker 2>men nurturing their friendships with their men friends. Famously, he's

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<v Speaker 2>friends with Rafael Cassol. They met each other in high school.

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<v Speaker 2>Raefael is also a good person who is too good

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<v Speaker 2>looking to be such a good person. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>how they do it. And also they're both famously from

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<v Speaker 2>the East Bay of Northern California, Oakland and Berkeley and

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit Albany. Weirdly, but anyway, we talked about

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<v Speaker 2>all that enjoy the interview when we get there. First,

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<v Speaker 2>I have a confession to make. I w Cambell used

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<v Speaker 2>to be a fan of the UFC, the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, I know, I know, it's not I was

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<v Speaker 2>bit by the martial arts bug early as a young person.

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up in the era of Bruce Lee movies

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<v Speaker 2>being on television and renting them from the video store,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I did martial arts as a kid, also

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<v Speaker 2>as a teenager. So I love martial arts and I

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<v Speaker 2>found my pathway into the UFC through martial arts. Originally,

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<v Speaker 2>when the UFC came out in the nineties, I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>like it because their whole marketing thing was like somebody

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<v Speaker 2>might die, and I was like, I don't really want

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<v Speaker 2>to see that. But then when Dana White took it over,

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<v Speaker 2>he made an effort to make it more mainstream, bringing

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<v Speaker 2>more rules in and weight classes, and that was all great,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I was there for the prime era of

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<v Speaker 2>the UFC.

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<v Speaker 1>Rowsy Connor McGregor.

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<v Speaker 2>My favorite UFC fighter of all time Amna Nunez, who

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<v Speaker 2>was the first champion who was also openly gay in

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<v Speaker 2>any combat sport. So yeah, shout out to Aman in

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<v Speaker 2>nunas the Lionus. And then at some point I started

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<v Speaker 2>to just struggle with my UFC fandom. I think it

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<v Speaker 2>happened around COVID because Dana White, who was clearly, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>not a guy that I'd want to like hang out

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<v Speaker 2>with or invite to my house, just through the struggles

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<v Speaker 2>of COVID he did with a lot of people on

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<v Speaker 2>the right did. They went super maga and super trumpy

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<v Speaker 2>and super anti the left, even though COVID happened when

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<v Speaker 2>his friend Donald Trump was president. So I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what had to do with the left, but all the

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<v Speaker 2>COVID restrictions really put a b in Dana's bonnet, and

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<v Speaker 2>so he's gone. He went super like maga. Not just Republican,

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<v Speaker 2>but maga. He's also spoken in all three of Trump's

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<v Speaker 2>Republican national conventions and calls Trump a friend, and you

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<v Speaker 2>know that's not a good sign. And so I just

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<v Speaker 2>started to like feel like, I don't know if I

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<v Speaker 2>can support this sport with my dollars anymore, and I

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<v Speaker 2>started to buy less and less fights. And then a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of years ago, on New Year's Eve, he famously

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<v Speaker 2>was in a fight with his wife that was captured

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<v Speaker 2>on video. They were in a nightclub somewhere and she

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<v Speaker 2>slapped him and he slapped it right back, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, I'm out, And I knew I was

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<v Speaker 2>right to be out because a lot of UFC fans

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<v Speaker 2>were saying she hit him first. Yeah, that's that's how

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<v Speaker 2>uh chivalry, being a gentleman works.

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<v Speaker 1>My wife hit me. She had it coming.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, you guys are awful, and you're probably gonna be

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<v Speaker 2>awful in the comments if you find this clip. And

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<v Speaker 2>I had been one of the evangelists of the sport,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the few left wing evangelists. Max's also a

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<v Speaker 2>fan of a guy named Luke Thomas who's also a

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<v Speaker 2>more left wing evangelist of the UFC. He's an MMA

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<v Speaker 2>journalist and also a regular journalist. He's in my book

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<v Speaker 2>Who Is Government? Luke's a great guy. Follow his work

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<v Speaker 2>on YouTube. Luke Thomas gets a political also Morning Combat,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a UFC show or his MMA show.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was like one of the few left wing

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<v Speaker 2>UFC people. I knew, fans I knew, and I just like,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't do it anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't do it. And I understand that athletes don't

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<v Speaker 2>always have your politics. That's fine, but they can't be

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<v Speaker 2>anti my humanity or what I think is good in

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<v Speaker 2>the world. They can't do that. Like recently some of

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<v Speaker 2>the San Francisco giants on Pride Day war hats with

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<v Speaker 2>Bible versus that were somehow saying we're not with Pride Day.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like, all right, well, I can't sit for

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<v Speaker 2>a game of that. I get that we don't have

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<v Speaker 2>to think the same way, but I can't have you

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<v Speaker 2>poke in a stick in my face while I'm trying

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<v Speaker 2>to enjoy your sport. So I just left it behind.

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<v Speaker 2>But Dana White did not care. He didn't care. He

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<v Speaker 2>figured out a way to keep the sport going. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think day White knew he was losing some left

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<v Speaker 2>wing fans. So in his new media deal, he didn't

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<v Speaker 2>do a pay per view thing, because pay per view

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<v Speaker 2>you do exactly who wants your sport. He signed with

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<v Speaker 2>Paramount Plus, which is also the Ellisons, and so you

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<v Speaker 2>don't have to pay for individual fights now they just

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<v Speaker 2>come if you pay for Paramount Plus. So I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's a way of hacking around on the idea of like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have to get you to pay for anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>You'll just watch it because it's on your app. I

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<v Speaker 2>did not watch it. And we all have been talking

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<v Speaker 2>about the UFC recently because of the event that just

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<v Speaker 2>happened over the past weekend, the UFC Freedom two fifty

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<v Speaker 2>Raw Rah Kid RockA USA event that happened on the

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<v Speaker 2>lawn of the White House that was supposed to be

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<v Speaker 2>to celebrate the two hundred and fiftieth Birthday of America

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<v Speaker 2>but somehow ended up being moved to Donald Trump's birthday.

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<v Speaker 2>And that event happened over the weekend, and if you

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<v Speaker 2>read the reviews of it as a UFC event, people

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<v Speaker 2>say it was a good UFC event, But if you

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<v Speaker 2>read the reviews of it as a cultural event, it

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<v Speaker 2>is pointing to everything wrong in America right now. In particular,

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<v Speaker 2>one moment, a fighter named Josh Hokitt won his fight

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<v Speaker 2>against Things fought. Derek lewis a black guy, which is

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<v Speaker 2>not important, but there's not that many black guys in

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<v Speaker 2>the UFC, so I mentioned it, so Josh Hokit, who

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<v Speaker 2>is not a black guy, at the end of his

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<v Speaker 2>fight when he was in the ring doing his winter speech,

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<v Speaker 2>and Josh Hogen is sort of a he's doing like

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<v Speaker 2>a bad version of Randy Mochellman Savage from the WWE.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like a TMU Randy Mochellman Savage. Uh. He's given

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<v Speaker 2>his speech and somebody he sort of runs out of

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<v Speaker 2>steam and clearly just wants to get out of there.

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<v Speaker 2>And so he turns to Joe Rogan who's interviewing him,

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<v Speaker 2>and Joe was dressed like I think the way I

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<v Speaker 2>could describe Joe, he was dressed like a like the

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<v Speaker 2>junior used car salesman who needs to talk to the

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<v Speaker 2>manager to decide if you're gonna get your undercoding. He

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<v Speaker 2>was dressed like a like a majer d at a restaurant.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not good anymore. So Josh Hog turns to Joe

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<v Speaker 2>Rogan and says, uh, Michelle Obaum was a man right America,

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<v Speaker 2>And the crowd cheers. And I heard this because I

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<v Speaker 2>was paying attention to the fights through Luke Thomas's watch

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<v Speaker 2>along and just through following it online. And I saw that.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like what And I pulled it up and

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<v Speaker 2>found the clip and that's what.

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<v Speaker 1>The guy did.

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<v Speaker 2>And to me, any any fin layer of belief that

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<v Speaker 2>this was about, that this event was about that was

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<v Speaker 2>nonpartisan and non political. Dana White kept saying it was

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<v Speaker 2>non political, it was just the way to celebrate America.

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<v Speaker 2>Even though Dana White is political and everything he does,

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<v Speaker 2>he somehow seems to think he's not political. But at

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<v Speaker 2>the same time he's spoken at all three Republican national conventions.

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<v Speaker 2>He literally will say, I'm not into politics, but you

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<v Speaker 2>spoke at three Republican national conventions. So any hint that

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<v Speaker 2>this was not a toxic environment strewn with maga politics

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<v Speaker 2>went away. When Josh Hogad said the thing about Michelle

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<v Speaker 2>Obama that I don't want to repeat again. It sort

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<v Speaker 2>of ties into last week why I really am anti

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<v Speaker 2>and have to be loudly anti transphobia, because transphobia doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>just hurt trans people, it hurts women overall, because anybody

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<v Speaker 2>who's transphobic is going to use that as an attack

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<v Speaker 2>on a woman they don't like. And Michelle Obama, who's

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<v Speaker 2>just somewhere living her best life, having conversations on her

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<v Speaker 2>podcast with her brother, just doing her own thing and

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<v Speaker 2>has not ever tried to run for politics and has

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<v Speaker 2>not been involved in politics since Obama left office, is

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<v Speaker 2>being called a man on the lawn of the house

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<v Speaker 2>she used to live in, and Joe Rogan just sat

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<v Speaker 2>there and laughed, which really made me just feel like,

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<v Speaker 2>fuck you, Joe Rogan. The Kevin Heart Roast the news

0:09:22.276 --> 0:09:27.036
<v Speaker 2>story that will never end. Recently, Joe Rogan said, any

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<v Speaker 2>comedian who criticized any comedian who made jokes with the

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<v Speaker 2>Kevin Heart Roast, that comedian is a trader to comedy.

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<v Speaker 2>And trader is such a funny word because traders normally

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<v Speaker 2>use as the word you use when you're a trader

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<v Speaker 2>to your country. And I would say, Joe Rogan, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>fining to be a trader to comedy. Are you fining

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<v Speaker 2>to be a trader to your country? Because that's what

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<v Speaker 2>you're doing right now by glad handling Trump everywhere you

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<v Speaker 2>go and letting this man slowly become the fascist of

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<v Speaker 2>his dreams. You, Joe Rogan, are being a trader to

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<v Speaker 2>your country. I'll take trader to comedy. Can you handle

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<v Speaker 2>trader to your country? All right, let's breathe, let's relax.

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<v Speaker 1>We got to clear the air.

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<v Speaker 2>I gotta relax because my guest doesn't need all this

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<v Speaker 2>bad ugliness in the air, because he is the amazing,

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<v Speaker 2>the awesome, the incredible to be Biggs.

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<v Speaker 1>Right now we're officially started.

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<v Speaker 3>There we go.

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<v Speaker 2>So thank you for doing my podcast, Thank you for

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<v Speaker 2>having It's You're among the first conversations I've had for

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<v Speaker 2>this podcast. So I when I was like, who can

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<v Speaker 2>I reach out to? I want to come down to

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<v Speaker 2>LA and do some episodes, and you were high on

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<v Speaker 2>my list. And I was also like, who knows where

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<v Speaker 2>that dude is in the world. You can be like

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<v Speaker 2>I figured you'd say yes, but also was like he

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<v Speaker 2>could be anywhere.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, yeah, that's true.

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<v Speaker 4>But I'm always trying to be home, so like it's

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<v Speaker 4>good if you're doing so of the NLA. It's a

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<v Speaker 4>really like good choice to try and hit me, like

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<v Speaker 4>get me to do something here because I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 4>be here.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I start every episode of by giving people their flowers.

0:11:02.036 --> 0:11:03.876
<v Speaker 2>I feel like in the hectic world that we're in

0:11:03.916 --> 0:11:07.396
<v Speaker 2>and the thing's going on and I'm and I'm booking

0:11:07.396 --> 0:11:09.516
<v Speaker 2>people who I really admire and want to talked to

0:11:09.676 --> 0:11:12.156
<v Speaker 2>for an hour, so it's not like it's not yet

0:11:12.276 --> 0:11:13.916
<v Speaker 2>just like, well I got to book you because we

0:11:13.956 --> 0:11:15.596
<v Speaker 2>got a slot, so it really important to me to

0:11:15.636 --> 0:11:20.156
<v Speaker 2>like book people, and so certainly. I've appreciate how like

0:11:20.316 --> 0:11:23.276
<v Speaker 2>how you have come into my life. Like when I

0:11:23.396 --> 0:11:25.076
<v Speaker 2>it was when I moved back to the Bay Area

0:11:25.396 --> 0:11:28.276
<v Speaker 2>with my wife and Melissa, who you know, was pregnant

0:11:28.316 --> 0:11:32.196
<v Speaker 2>with our second kid, our second daughter. I was between jobs,

0:11:32.236 --> 0:11:34.956
<v Speaker 2>so I didn't really know what was happening when things

0:11:34.996 --> 0:11:36.796
<v Speaker 2>were going on, and that I was working on the

0:11:36.836 --> 0:11:39.716
<v Speaker 2>United Shades, and I was really like had decided, we

0:11:39.836 --> 0:11:42.836
<v Speaker 2>decided to make our life in the East Bay. At

0:11:42.836 --> 0:11:44.516
<v Speaker 2>that point, we were living in Berkeley, but we always

0:11:44.556 --> 0:11:46.396
<v Speaker 2>wanted to get to Oakland. But we decided we're not

0:11:46.436 --> 0:11:47.956
<v Speaker 2>going to live in LA or New York. We're going

0:11:48.036 --> 0:11:50.596
<v Speaker 2>to be here. And when you and Rafa reached out

0:11:50.596 --> 0:11:54.276
<v Speaker 2>about blind spotting, I remember getting the call like they

0:11:54.396 --> 0:11:55.876
<v Speaker 2>got these guys want you to do this thing.

0:11:56.156 --> 0:11:58.036
<v Speaker 1>I was like, okay, cool, and then they're like, they

0:11:58.076 --> 0:11:59.276
<v Speaker 1>want to talk to you on the phone. Do you

0:11:59.276 --> 0:12:01.636
<v Speaker 1>remember this. You guys were like, we want to talk to.

0:12:01.556 --> 0:12:03.556
<v Speaker 3>You on the I remember talking to you on the phone.

0:12:04.116 --> 0:12:05.316
<v Speaker 1>It was like a meet. They were like, they want

0:12:05.356 --> 0:12:06.396
<v Speaker 1>to talk to you on the phone, was what it

0:12:06.436 --> 0:12:07.596
<v Speaker 1>was said to me. I was like, okay.

0:12:07.756 --> 0:12:10.436
<v Speaker 2>Before I moderated and you both just sort of let

0:12:10.476 --> 0:12:14.676
<v Speaker 2>me know that, no, we know who you are, which

0:12:14.676 --> 0:12:15.556
<v Speaker 2>I appreciated.

0:12:15.996 --> 0:12:20.676
<v Speaker 4>It was such a that everything associated with that film

0:12:20.756 --> 0:12:22.716
<v Speaker 4>was like a wild experience for us because we had

0:12:22.796 --> 0:12:24.956
<v Speaker 4>yet to work in Hollywood at all, really, so we

0:12:24.956 --> 0:12:27.676
<v Speaker 4>didn't know how these things actually work. But it was

0:12:28.116 --> 0:12:33.276
<v Speaker 4>you know, we kept being like, we want everybody to

0:12:33.316 --> 0:12:35.396
<v Speaker 4>know how intentional this is for us, you know, like

0:12:35.756 --> 0:12:37.556
<v Speaker 4>this is not a part of this that's like, yeah,

0:12:37.556 --> 0:12:39.156
<v Speaker 4>that would be cool. It was like, no, this is

0:12:39.196 --> 0:12:40.836
<v Speaker 4>who we want to do this and you were like,

0:12:41.116 --> 0:12:44.356
<v Speaker 4>what it would be awesome if Kamal did this, Like

0:12:44.436 --> 0:12:45.556
<v Speaker 4>this would be amazing.

0:12:45.756 --> 0:12:47.476
<v Speaker 2>And for me, I was still in this spot. I

0:12:47.476 --> 0:12:48.716
<v Speaker 2>mean I still in this spot, but I was in

0:12:48.756 --> 0:12:50.636
<v Speaker 2>the spot of like, I know, I'm working hard, I'm

0:12:50.636 --> 0:12:52.236
<v Speaker 2>doing doing things, but I don't know if you know

0:12:52.276 --> 0:12:54.836
<v Speaker 2>who's seeing it, or who's aware of it, or who

0:12:54.876 --> 0:12:57.556
<v Speaker 2>is who or who even or maybe people see it

0:12:57.556 --> 0:12:58.556
<v Speaker 2>but don't like it, you know what I mean. I

0:12:58.996 --> 0:13:00.396
<v Speaker 2>sort of put my head down and like I'm going

0:13:00.476 --> 0:13:02.676
<v Speaker 2>to do the work. Especially then, so the fact that

0:13:02.716 --> 0:13:03.916
<v Speaker 2>I think you all told me that you'd seen me

0:13:03.956 --> 0:13:06.196
<v Speaker 2>at the punch line back in the day, Yeah, which

0:13:06.196 --> 0:13:07.996
<v Speaker 2>I was when it's the club that I came up

0:13:07.996 --> 0:13:11.076
<v Speaker 2>at in San Francisco. So I just appreciate you too,

0:13:11.156 --> 0:13:14.356
<v Speaker 2>and you how intentional you all are about your life

0:13:14.396 --> 0:13:17.996
<v Speaker 2>and your work and connecting those things, and how when

0:13:17.996 --> 0:13:19.556
<v Speaker 2>I when I look at you, like I said when

0:13:19.556 --> 0:13:21.876
<v Speaker 2>I reached out for you the podcast, like this dude,

0:13:21.956 --> 0:13:26.796
<v Speaker 2>I just saw him on stage in Berkeley with clipping like,

0:13:27.196 --> 0:13:31.396
<v Speaker 2>you know, wrapping his ass off madness. Yeah, I had

0:13:31.596 --> 0:13:32.796
<v Speaker 2>opened my eagle on yesterday.

0:13:32.876 --> 0:13:35.636
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, So I just

0:13:35.716 --> 0:13:36.396
<v Speaker 1>I just saw you.

0:13:36.716 --> 0:13:39.596
<v Speaker 2>Then I'm watching you on my phone in a in

0:13:39.676 --> 0:13:43.516
<v Speaker 2>the new clip from the Boys, like there's a very

0:13:43.516 --> 0:13:45.996
<v Speaker 2>proof like there he is, yeah yeah yeah. And then

0:13:46.436 --> 0:13:48.516
<v Speaker 2>and then as I sit down today, I'm like, oh,

0:13:48.556 --> 0:13:51.916
<v Speaker 2>another movie's coming out, Yeah yeah, a Magic Hour.

0:13:52.036 --> 0:13:55.196
<v Speaker 4>Magic Hour Yeah yeah, which I'm I'm that's one of

0:13:55.236 --> 0:13:57.916
<v Speaker 4>those ones, like amazing that it's gonna have a theatrical release,

0:13:58.076 --> 0:13:59.876
<v Speaker 4>very independent, yeah, very yeah.

0:13:59.916 --> 0:14:01.396
<v Speaker 3>So I'm so excited about it.

0:14:01.876 --> 0:14:03.396
<v Speaker 2>Looking at the clip, looks like the movie is like,

0:14:03.716 --> 0:14:05.156
<v Speaker 2>is this the movie that me and my wife can

0:14:05.236 --> 0:14:09.716
<v Speaker 2>go to or should we see separately of those intense

0:14:09.756 --> 0:14:10.876
<v Speaker 2>marriage movies where you're like.

0:14:10.796 --> 0:14:13.796
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, yeah, I think it's a can though. It's

0:14:13.956 --> 0:14:17.676
<v Speaker 4>very pro marriage. Okay, it's very pro forgiveness. It's very Yeah.

0:14:17.716 --> 0:14:19.956
<v Speaker 2>I remember I went and saw Eternal Sunshine of the

0:14:19.996 --> 0:14:23.236
<v Speaker 2>spotless uh spotless mind with my girlfriend at the time,

0:14:23.276 --> 0:14:24.916
<v Speaker 2>and I watched someone go I think we got to

0:14:24.916 --> 0:14:25.316
<v Speaker 2>break up.

0:14:26.716 --> 0:14:30.956
<v Speaker 1>I don't get this from you. I'm not I don't

0:14:30.956 --> 0:14:31.356
<v Speaker 1>feel this.

0:14:31.676 --> 0:14:35.356
<v Speaker 3>Where's the support, I'm not so.

0:14:35.796 --> 0:14:37.876
<v Speaker 2>I just want to be careful about those things. But

0:14:38.516 --> 0:14:42.556
<v Speaker 2>I just see you like busting your ass all the time.

0:14:43.116 --> 0:14:47.236
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, I appreciate that. I mean, yes, sort of.

0:14:47.476 --> 0:14:50.556
<v Speaker 2>I mean we all waste time behind the scenes, and

0:14:50.596 --> 0:14:52.836
<v Speaker 2>we all we all like have days we can't get

0:14:52.836 --> 0:14:54.356
<v Speaker 2>out of bed. I'm not saying that you no, no, no, no,

0:14:54.436 --> 0:14:55.796
<v Speaker 2>but I just but I just want to be clear,

0:14:55.876 --> 0:14:57.396
<v Speaker 2>like and again to take these flowers.

0:14:57.876 --> 0:15:00.676
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I'm not accepting. I'm trying to be and you

0:15:00.676 --> 0:15:01.716
<v Speaker 3>can you can elaborate.

0:15:01.836 --> 0:15:05.036
<v Speaker 2>But I do see like sometimes there's people like I

0:15:05.076 --> 0:15:07.956
<v Speaker 2>look at your I get he's he's.

0:15:07.756 --> 0:15:09.636
<v Speaker 1>Good at a lot of things. Just take it.

0:15:10.596 --> 0:15:12.636
<v Speaker 2>He's good a lot of things. But he doesn't have

0:15:12.676 --> 0:15:15.236
<v Speaker 2>to do all these things. He doesn't need to be

0:15:15.276 --> 0:15:18.036
<v Speaker 2>here in Berkeley, wrapping his ass off with clipping and

0:15:18.356 --> 0:15:19.916
<v Speaker 2>he could be at home, you know what I mean,

0:15:20.156 --> 0:15:22.476
<v Speaker 2>you know, he could be he you know, I see

0:15:22.516 --> 0:15:24.276
<v Speaker 2>you like I just see you in being in a

0:15:24.276 --> 0:15:26.756
<v Speaker 2>lot of spaces and and you do all of those spaces.

0:15:26.916 --> 0:15:30.596
<v Speaker 2>And I really appreciate like it models like intentional work ethic,

0:15:30.676 --> 0:15:33.316
<v Speaker 2>but also the kind of like approach to this business

0:15:33.356 --> 0:15:35.636
<v Speaker 2>that is like on some level we're all just like

0:15:35.876 --> 0:15:37.756
<v Speaker 2>some of us are just plumbers making the donuts, you

0:15:37.796 --> 0:15:40.036
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean, not that plumbers should make donuts,

0:15:40.036 --> 0:15:41.476
<v Speaker 2>but you know what I mean, the idea of like

0:15:41.636 --> 0:15:43.196
<v Speaker 2>we're just doing the work that's in front of us.

0:15:43.236 --> 0:15:46.796
<v Speaker 3>It's crazy, but yeah, you know, yeah, no, I agree.

0:15:46.876 --> 0:15:48.956
<v Speaker 4>I mean to a certain degree, I do have to

0:15:48.996 --> 0:15:50.876
<v Speaker 4>do all of those things because I don't know how

0:15:50.916 --> 0:15:55.756
<v Speaker 4>to function otherwise, you know, like I don't ye the

0:15:55.796 --> 0:15:58.396
<v Speaker 4>Bay Arean is of it all is that is that

0:15:58.436 --> 0:16:03.116
<v Speaker 4>thing where we just do things. We have to make things,

0:16:04.476 --> 0:16:07.596
<v Speaker 4>and a lot of the way the business side of

0:16:07.596 --> 0:16:09.516
<v Speaker 4>this works is you end up waiting to make things.

0:16:09.636 --> 0:16:11.796
<v Speaker 3>You end up like waiting for permission to make things.

0:16:11.836 --> 0:16:15.756
<v Speaker 4>And I don't know how to feel like a person

0:16:15.796 --> 0:16:18.676
<v Speaker 4>when I'm doing that. At the same time, like and

0:16:18.756 --> 0:16:21.836
<v Speaker 4>this is you know, I admire you a lot in

0:16:21.916 --> 0:16:23.916
<v Speaker 4>this too, because like I'm trying. I'm new to this

0:16:24.036 --> 0:16:26.636
<v Speaker 4>dad business and I'm like always trying to be with him,

0:16:26.636 --> 0:16:28.316
<v Speaker 4>so anything that takes me away from him, I am

0:16:28.316 --> 0:16:31.556
<v Speaker 4>like I'm like very nervous about and I'm always trying

0:16:31.556 --> 0:16:33.356
<v Speaker 4>to minimize and like how quickly can I get in

0:16:33.396 --> 0:16:35.396
<v Speaker 4>and get out? But I still like need to do it.

0:16:35.436 --> 0:16:40.196
<v Speaker 4>You know, the amount of like serious discussions me and

0:16:40.236 --> 0:16:41.876
<v Speaker 4>my wife Abby I have had to have about like

0:16:42.196 --> 0:16:44.356
<v Speaker 4>I know this doesn't bring in any money and I

0:16:44.436 --> 0:16:46.756
<v Speaker 4>know like where she's never getting out. It's like me

0:16:47.236 --> 0:16:50.556
<v Speaker 4>apologizing beforehand, like I'm so sorry, but I just I

0:16:50.676 --> 0:16:52.396
<v Speaker 4>have to go do this rap show.

0:16:54.116 --> 0:16:56.596
<v Speaker 1>I mean, and you know, and it's a real rap show.

0:16:56.636 --> 0:16:58.556
<v Speaker 2>It's not like it doesn't there's nothing about clipping that

0:16:58.596 --> 0:17:00.756
<v Speaker 2>feels like it's like a hobby. It feels like this

0:17:00.836 --> 0:17:02.956
<v Speaker 2>is and you know, I saw the tiny desk and

0:17:02.996 --> 0:17:05.836
<v Speaker 2>I've and listened to the music and it's like there's

0:17:06.156 --> 0:17:08.676
<v Speaker 2>in an alternate timeline, this is just who you are.

0:17:08.876 --> 0:17:10.236
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Like you're just that guy.

0:17:10.476 --> 0:17:12.916
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I still kind of think of myself as

0:17:12.916 --> 0:17:15.076
<v Speaker 4>that guy. I don't know, like, yeah, I'm just like

0:17:16.036 --> 0:17:22.596
<v Speaker 4>I in the you know, around twenty two thousand and

0:17:23.836 --> 0:17:26.316
<v Speaker 4>nine or something eight something like that, Like I made

0:17:26.316 --> 0:17:29.436
<v Speaker 4>a very conscious decision to start identifying as a rapper,

0:17:29.796 --> 0:17:33.196
<v Speaker 4>you know, because I was like, I otherwise, how can

0:17:33.236 --> 0:17:35.356
<v Speaker 4>I say that I am? You know, like it was

0:17:35.356 --> 0:17:37.556
<v Speaker 4>the thing I had been doing for longer than anything else.

0:17:38.196 --> 0:17:40.596
<v Speaker 4>I wasn't making any money from anywhere at the time,

0:17:40.636 --> 0:17:42.756
<v Speaker 4>so it was just like, well, what's the thing that

0:17:42.796 --> 0:17:43.356
<v Speaker 4>And I had.

0:17:43.196 --> 0:17:45.636
<v Speaker 3>To be like, well, what do I love if I

0:17:45.956 --> 0:17:47.516
<v Speaker 3>you know, what is what is the thing? I want?

0:17:47.556 --> 0:17:49.356
<v Speaker 4>To be honest, I want to make these rap songs.

0:17:49.396 --> 0:17:50.916
<v Speaker 4>I want to go all over the world playing raps.

0:17:51.036 --> 0:17:53.316
<v Speaker 4>I'm a rapper. I was saying that in public, which

0:17:53.316 --> 0:17:55.396
<v Speaker 4>is a crazy thing for like a young black men

0:17:55.476 --> 0:17:59.436
<v Speaker 4>to just especially like without a deal and with no

0:17:59.636 --> 0:18:02.356
<v Speaker 4>like evidence that that's working. But just like you know,

0:18:02.476 --> 0:18:06.596
<v Speaker 4>show it up in my ninety seven Honda Civic being like, yeah,

0:18:06.596 --> 0:18:07.076
<v Speaker 4>I'm a rapper.

0:18:07.076 --> 0:18:08.676
<v Speaker 3>I'm a crazy thing to do.

0:18:08.716 --> 0:18:12.036
<v Speaker 4>But I so anyway, that was such a choice that

0:18:12.236 --> 0:18:14.636
<v Speaker 4>it's a thing that I still I still very much

0:18:14.716 --> 0:18:15.556
<v Speaker 4>identify as.

0:18:16.556 --> 0:18:19.436
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and and I would imagine, like you said in

0:18:19.436 --> 0:18:22.236
<v Speaker 2>the bay, there's just a let's make some stuff yeah,

0:18:22.276 --> 0:18:25.476
<v Speaker 2>and sort of let's make some stuff without almost without

0:18:25.516 --> 0:18:29.556
<v Speaker 2>regards often to profit or or market.

0:18:29.876 --> 0:18:32.116
<v Speaker 1>Uh whether the market needs this thing.

0:18:32.076 --> 0:18:34.076
<v Speaker 4>They know, because we don't know how, right, like who

0:18:34.116 --> 0:18:37.476
<v Speaker 4>there's no industry there, which is it's a wild place

0:18:37.716 --> 0:18:42.756
<v Speaker 4>in hindsight to be such a robust like arts forward

0:18:42.956 --> 0:18:46.076
<v Speaker 4>place where there isn't an industry behind it. So all

0:18:46.116 --> 0:18:49.116
<v Speaker 4>of us are just making it and like figure and

0:18:49.316 --> 0:18:51.396
<v Speaker 4>making the time to make it and figuring out how

0:18:51.396 --> 0:18:53.236
<v Speaker 4>to work other jobs and make it. And that's just

0:18:53.316 --> 0:18:56.636
<v Speaker 4>what you do because like art is necessary and we

0:18:56.676 --> 0:19:00.756
<v Speaker 4>make art and so yeah that yeah, so that that's

0:19:00.916 --> 0:19:03.676
<v Speaker 4>just part of the thing. And I have so I

0:19:03.836 --> 0:19:05.116
<v Speaker 4>was just thinking about this today, like I have a

0:19:05.116 --> 0:19:09.756
<v Speaker 4>lot of I have hired people and also keep other

0:19:09.796 --> 0:19:13.156
<v Speaker 4>people around me who are concerned with product right because

0:19:13.156 --> 0:19:14.036
<v Speaker 4>I don't even know how.

0:19:14.356 --> 0:19:17.076
<v Speaker 1>Oh you need people who are like that's a good unit.

0:19:17.116 --> 0:19:17.676
<v Speaker 1>We can sell that.

0:19:17.916 --> 0:19:19.916
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I mean not in a cynical way, but

0:19:19.996 --> 0:19:22.356
<v Speaker 2>in like a this is a capitalistic society we live in.

0:19:22.716 --> 0:19:24.436
<v Speaker 2>You have made a good unit that we can this

0:19:24.476 --> 0:19:25.276
<v Speaker 2>is a good thing we can do.

0:19:25.436 --> 0:19:29.316
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, or even you know, even in films like this,

0:19:31.396 --> 0:19:34.876
<v Speaker 4>I am such a process guy that I don't you know,

0:19:34.996 --> 0:19:39.116
<v Speaker 4>if I see a thing that's like, this is a

0:19:39.116 --> 0:19:40.956
<v Speaker 4>really interesting script I would like to do.

0:19:41.116 --> 0:19:42.676
<v Speaker 3>That's all I need to want to do it.

0:19:42.756 --> 0:19:44.996
<v Speaker 4>And other people can advise me like that's gonna tank,

0:19:45.036 --> 0:19:47.596
<v Speaker 4>that's not or this is whatever. Ultimately I can decide

0:19:47.596 --> 0:19:49.756
<v Speaker 4>to do it, even like while shooting, somebody to tell

0:19:49.756 --> 0:19:51.836
<v Speaker 4>me that's what directors are for. I'm so interested in

0:19:51.916 --> 0:19:54.076
<v Speaker 4>the process. I'll do a thousand takes of a scene.

0:19:54.076 --> 0:19:54.596
<v Speaker 3>I don't care.

0:19:54.996 --> 0:19:56.636
<v Speaker 4>You got to tell me when it's done. I'm going

0:19:56.676 --> 0:19:59.196
<v Speaker 4>to keep trying something new. I'm having a great time here,

0:19:59.676 --> 0:20:02.356
<v Speaker 4>you know, So like you tell me when you got it,

0:20:02.956 --> 0:20:04.556
<v Speaker 4>because I don't know. I'm just out here.

0:20:04.716 --> 0:20:05.476
<v Speaker 1>I'm just out here doing it.

0:20:05.476 --> 0:20:05.996
<v Speaker 3>I'm just out here.

0:20:06.076 --> 0:20:08.396
<v Speaker 2>You're out here, like do the thing and let the

0:20:08.436 --> 0:20:10.796
<v Speaker 2>director go, oh there it was great. I'm glad to

0:20:10.836 --> 0:20:11.676
<v Speaker 2>know that where it was.

0:20:11.756 --> 0:20:14.196
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And I put a lot of trust in my

0:20:14.236 --> 0:20:16.556
<v Speaker 4>collaborators in that way. Like my you know, if when

0:20:16.596 --> 0:20:18.796
<v Speaker 4>I know what my role on a on a particular

0:20:18.836 --> 0:20:20.556
<v Speaker 4>project is, my role here is as actor.

0:20:20.636 --> 0:20:22.556
<v Speaker 3>Great, That's what I'm doing. I have to learn the

0:20:22.596 --> 0:20:23.636
<v Speaker 3>lines and say the lines.

0:20:24.396 --> 0:20:26.636
<v Speaker 4>Those are my parameters and like I'm gonna do as

0:20:26.716 --> 0:20:28.676
<v Speaker 4>much as I can within that is everybody else. You

0:20:28.716 --> 0:20:30.436
<v Speaker 4>tell me when I'm lit, you tell me if my

0:20:30.476 --> 0:20:32.116
<v Speaker 4>hair is out of place, you tell I'm not gonna

0:20:32.116 --> 0:20:32.796
<v Speaker 4>look at the screen.

0:20:32.876 --> 0:20:33.436
<v Speaker 3>I don't care.

0:20:33.796 --> 0:20:37.596
<v Speaker 4>He's like, my job is to be honest, try to

0:20:37.596 --> 0:20:40.476
<v Speaker 4>find these moments of honesty. Like that's it, and I'll

0:20:40.876 --> 0:20:42.436
<v Speaker 4>as many chances as you want to give me to

0:20:42.476 --> 0:20:44.396
<v Speaker 4>do that. Cool if you're losing light and we got

0:20:44.396 --> 0:20:47.396
<v Speaker 4>to move on, cool, you know, Like that's what it is.

0:20:48.716 --> 0:20:50.476
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know if it's intentional, but I mean

0:20:50.516 --> 0:20:52.076
<v Speaker 2>it's sort of connected to like you just want to

0:20:52.156 --> 0:20:54.676
<v Speaker 2>work and do things, but you're just a person who

0:20:54.676 --> 0:20:57.436
<v Speaker 2>also it has no problem appearing and like you said,

0:20:57.476 --> 0:21:01.556
<v Speaker 2>a small independent film on stage doing you know, how

0:21:01.596 --> 0:21:04.516
<v Speaker 2>would you declibe clipping is where's their role?

0:21:04.556 --> 0:21:06.236
<v Speaker 1>And rap and hip hop? What is the you know?

0:21:06.276 --> 0:21:07.356
<v Speaker 1>I talked to Mike Eglist day.

0:21:07.396 --> 0:21:09.636
<v Speaker 2>He was like, I called myself art raps isn't working

0:21:09.676 --> 0:21:13.116
<v Speaker 2>more so, I was like, I say indie rap because

0:21:13.116 --> 0:21:14.676
<v Speaker 2>it sort of describes the entire thing.

0:21:14.756 --> 0:21:15.676
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's interesting.

0:21:15.836 --> 0:21:18.676
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, maybe we'll just put ourselves there. I don't We've

0:21:18.716 --> 0:21:20.836
<v Speaker 4>always just called ourselves rap music. It was like very

0:21:20.876 --> 0:21:24.436
<v Speaker 4>intentionally track because when we first came along, it was

0:21:24.516 --> 0:21:26.996
<v Speaker 4>a lot of a lot of the commentary around us

0:21:27.196 --> 0:21:31.956
<v Speaker 4>was like like I don't like rap, but I like this,

0:21:32.156 --> 0:21:33.876
<v Speaker 4>or like this isn't like what rap is like, and

0:21:33.916 --> 0:21:36.516
<v Speaker 4>we kept so we started being very intentional about this

0:21:36.556 --> 0:21:37.236
<v Speaker 4>is just rap.

0:21:37.436 --> 0:21:38.916
<v Speaker 3>We're not actually doing anything new.

0:21:38.956 --> 0:21:40.676
<v Speaker 4>We are taking all of the traditions that we have

0:21:40.796 --> 0:21:44.316
<v Speaker 4>learned from being lifelong like practitioners and fans of this

0:21:44.516 --> 0:21:46.676
<v Speaker 4>culture of music and making the thing.

0:21:46.516 --> 0:21:46.916
<v Speaker 3>That we do.

0:21:46.996 --> 0:21:50.756
<v Speaker 4>So so I've always just called I just.

0:21:50.476 --> 0:21:54.556
<v Speaker 1>You're not an anti rap. You post post rap.

0:21:54.476 --> 0:21:57.996
<v Speaker 4>Not post rap, node nothing. Yeah, it's all it's all

0:21:58.076 --> 0:21:58.596
<v Speaker 4>rap music.

0:21:59.196 --> 0:22:00.836
<v Speaker 2>So but yeah, just to get back to the questions,

0:22:00.876 --> 0:22:03.076
<v Speaker 2>like I see you like this is like what I

0:22:03.076 --> 0:22:06.796
<v Speaker 2>would define is like like this hardcore rap outfit rap group.

0:22:07.076 --> 0:22:10.476
<v Speaker 2>You're doing independent movies and then but you're also I'm

0:22:10.476 --> 0:22:12.036
<v Speaker 2>not shocked at all to see you pop up in

0:22:12.076 --> 0:22:14.476
<v Speaker 2>something big and loud and commercial like The Boys. That

0:22:14.516 --> 0:22:18.716
<v Speaker 2>doesn't feel like Deviata is supposed to be independent. There's

0:22:18.756 --> 0:22:20.956
<v Speaker 2>a time when people sort of put those labels on people,

0:22:20.956 --> 0:22:23.516
<v Speaker 2>like you're not supposed to be doing that, you'd Parker posey,

0:22:23.516 --> 0:22:26.956
<v Speaker 2>what are you doing in the movie. And I don't

0:22:26.996 --> 0:22:29.236
<v Speaker 2>feel like with you that I see you as being like,

0:22:29.316 --> 0:22:31.396
<v Speaker 2>oh that's I feel like, no, that's perfect for him,

0:22:31.396 --> 0:22:33.276
<v Speaker 2>and I'm happy for him and I can't wait to

0:22:33.276 --> 0:22:34.796
<v Speaker 2>see what he does in that space.

0:22:34.956 --> 0:22:36.116
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's cool, thank you.

0:22:36.236 --> 0:22:36.476
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:22:36.516 --> 0:22:38.916
<v Speaker 3>I mean I think that those.

0:22:40.436 --> 0:22:43.356
<v Speaker 4>That kind of sectioning off is sort of disappearing in

0:22:43.396 --> 0:22:48.076
<v Speaker 4>some ways, you know. I'm I think we've we as

0:22:48.156 --> 0:22:50.556
<v Speaker 4>fans as audience, have become so much more aware of

0:22:50.636 --> 0:22:52.556
<v Speaker 4>the business side of it than we were before and

0:22:52.596 --> 0:22:54.796
<v Speaker 4>how hard it is to make money doing art. So

0:22:54.916 --> 0:22:58.076
<v Speaker 4>like I don't know, generally for me, any actor I

0:22:58.116 --> 0:22:59.636
<v Speaker 4>see in a big thing that it looks like they

0:22:59.676 --> 0:23:01.396
<v Speaker 4>got paid a lot for Like I'm very.

0:23:01.276 --> 0:23:06.796
<v Speaker 1>Happy for man, that guy got insurance. You know, he's

0:23:06.796 --> 0:23:08.316
<v Speaker 1>got an insurance cover for the whole year.

0:23:08.636 --> 0:23:11.596
<v Speaker 4>And you know, Mike Eagle Song gets a placement in

0:23:11.636 --> 0:23:14.876
<v Speaker 4>a on a Netflix movie. Hell yeah, like that's yes,

0:23:16.876 --> 0:23:18.556
<v Speaker 4>I know you didn't get paid enough for that, but

0:23:18.596 --> 0:23:22.916
<v Speaker 4>like I hope you did, like you know, so yeah,

0:23:23.076 --> 0:23:29.596
<v Speaker 4>but I do, you know. I mean, the jump off

0:23:29.636 --> 0:23:32.116
<v Speaker 4>for me was Hamilton and It and it was the

0:23:32.156 --> 0:23:36.356
<v Speaker 4>most popular thing in a very long time, but it

0:23:36.396 --> 0:23:38.156
<v Speaker 4>was still for me, it was me and my friends

0:23:38.476 --> 0:23:42.756
<v Speaker 4>making something dumb, right, So like that it was so

0:23:43.876 --> 0:23:45.076
<v Speaker 4>the only process I know.

0:23:45.396 --> 0:23:47.276
<v Speaker 3>It's all part of the same as the same process.

0:23:47.596 --> 0:23:50.316
<v Speaker 4>Oh, these people are people I trust, Like, these are

0:23:50.396 --> 0:23:53.756
<v Speaker 4>artists I enjoy working with. This is an idea that

0:23:53.836 --> 0:23:56.236
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if it works or not. It's a big,

0:23:56.796 --> 0:23:59.276
<v Speaker 4>a big thing for me on everything. It's like if

0:23:59.276 --> 0:24:01.956
<v Speaker 4>I'm the most attractive thing for me is to not

0:24:02.116 --> 0:24:05.236
<v Speaker 4>know if it's gonna work because I need the experiment

0:24:05.276 --> 0:24:07.236
<v Speaker 4>of it. I need the excitement of being like, wow,

0:24:07.356 --> 0:24:10.156
<v Speaker 4>this is a big swing or what could we possibly

0:24:10.196 --> 0:24:12.676
<v Speaker 4>be doing here, you know, being halfway through and me

0:24:12.796 --> 0:24:15.196
<v Speaker 4>like this is a failure. You know, I kind of

0:24:15.436 --> 0:24:20.916
<v Speaker 4>need that juice. So yeah, and so it just but

0:24:21.076 --> 0:24:24.516
<v Speaker 4>because I think I have benefited in many ways because

0:24:24.596 --> 0:24:27.476
<v Speaker 4>of that being my sort of entry to the more

0:24:27.516 --> 0:24:30.676
<v Speaker 4>mainstream world in that for me, it was still that

0:24:30.756 --> 0:24:35.196
<v Speaker 4>exact same modality of working, but but it became this phenomenon.

0:24:35.476 --> 0:24:38.036
<v Speaker 3>Yeah that was just pop art, you know.

0:24:38.356 --> 0:24:40.716
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I mean I don't want to spend too

0:24:40.756 --> 0:24:42.196
<v Speaker 2>much time with that because I know you've talked about

0:24:42.356 --> 0:24:44.836
<v Speaker 2>Hamilton a lot, but I do I don't actually know

0:24:45.036 --> 0:24:47.156
<v Speaker 2>the origin story of you and lin Manuel coming across

0:24:47.156 --> 0:24:47.436
<v Speaker 2>each other.

0:24:47.476 --> 0:24:48.516
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you've talked about before.

0:24:48.516 --> 0:24:51.156
<v Speaker 3>But how do you just freestyle of Supreme?

0:24:51.596 --> 0:24:53.716
<v Speaker 1>Okay, just a hip hop collective?

0:24:53.916 --> 0:24:57.916
<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah, so we were rapping like yeah yeah and

0:24:57.956 --> 0:25:01.196
<v Speaker 4>a yeah and a funny clerical error but.

0:25:01.556 --> 0:25:03.436
<v Speaker 3>And so on. Some bas I told the story before too,

0:25:03.476 --> 0:25:05.316
<v Speaker 3>so you cut it out of the thing. But like, it's.

0:25:06.676 --> 0:25:10.076
<v Speaker 4>Me and Anthony VININCIALI was another founding member Freestyle. I

0:25:10.156 --> 0:25:12.516
<v Speaker 4>was living in San Francisco. We were both due to

0:25:12.556 --> 0:25:14.956
<v Speaker 4>a clerical error called the substitute teach the same class

0:25:14.956 --> 0:25:18.356
<v Speaker 4>in Marine City, and so we show up. It's like

0:25:18.396 --> 0:25:21.196
<v Speaker 4>a first grade class or something. You have to come

0:25:21.276 --> 0:25:22.756
<v Speaker 4>up with something new to do with these kids every

0:25:22.796 --> 0:25:25.156
<v Speaker 4>fifteen minutes. I guess we're both getting paid today, so

0:25:25.156 --> 0:25:27.436
<v Speaker 4>we're both gonna do this. Yeah, And at some point

0:25:27.476 --> 0:25:29.316
<v Speaker 4>we just start freestyling with the kid. He's like, do

0:25:29.356 --> 0:25:30.276
<v Speaker 4>you do you freestyle?

0:25:30.596 --> 0:25:30.836
<v Speaker 1>I do?

0:25:30.916 --> 0:25:32.116
<v Speaker 4>He was like, great, this is what we're gonna do.

0:25:32.156 --> 0:25:33.556
<v Speaker 4>We're gonna be boxing. We do this, and we did

0:25:33.596 --> 0:25:35.156
<v Speaker 4>that for half an hour. Really worked out.

0:25:35.236 --> 0:25:35.716
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:25:35.796 --> 0:25:37.836
<v Speaker 4>I think his wife's car broken down or something, so

0:25:37.916 --> 0:25:41.316
<v Speaker 4>I gave him a ride home to San Francisco, and

0:25:41.436 --> 0:25:44.356
<v Speaker 4>he we started talking and he was like, I'm part

0:25:44.396 --> 0:25:46.476
<v Speaker 4>of this group freestyle of a pre of my friend Lynn.

0:25:46.476 --> 0:25:48.356
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if you know him, he's like whatever,

0:25:48.396 --> 0:25:50.316
<v Speaker 4>he's about to do a show on Broadway called in

0:25:50.356 --> 0:25:52.036
<v Speaker 4>the Heights. That I have no idea of anything that

0:25:52.036 --> 0:25:55.996
<v Speaker 4>you're talking about, but whatever. So but it was that's

0:25:55.996 --> 0:25:59.276
<v Speaker 4>how I know those guys say that we became friends.

0:25:59.276 --> 0:26:01.836
<v Speaker 2>And then I've become more fascinating recently with just the

0:26:01.916 --> 0:26:04.476
<v Speaker 2>idea of sliding doors and butterfly effect and the idea

0:26:04.516 --> 0:26:07.876
<v Speaker 2>that like that, doesn't you know that's a that's a yeah,

0:26:07.916 --> 0:26:10.636
<v Speaker 2>your whole life goes a different direction if you maybe

0:26:10.676 --> 0:26:13.716
<v Speaker 2>like you still an actor, you're still rapping, but you're

0:26:13.756 --> 0:26:15.276
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily in Hamilton.

0:26:15.756 --> 0:26:19.796
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'm almost certainly not. I don't know how, you

0:26:19.836 --> 0:26:21.956
<v Speaker 4>know how I would have met those cats otherwise. And

0:26:21.956 --> 0:26:25.316
<v Speaker 4>it's yeah, that that is particularly crazy, especially because like

0:26:25.436 --> 0:26:29.436
<v Speaker 4>if anyone who's been a substitute teachers, not a lot

0:26:29.596 --> 0:26:31.196
<v Speaker 4>of great opportunities to come.

0:26:31.076 --> 0:26:33.396
<v Speaker 2>Out of it, a lot of life changing and after

0:26:33.436 --> 0:26:37.596
<v Speaker 2>I substitute talk Yeah, yeah, those things and forget I

0:26:37.596 --> 0:26:39.476
<v Speaker 2>tripped over a billion dollars, and I was like, there's

0:26:39.516 --> 0:26:40.436
<v Speaker 2>a billion dollars here.

0:26:40.516 --> 0:26:43.156
<v Speaker 1>I just thank god I substitute taught today. Yeah.

0:26:43.276 --> 0:26:45.996
<v Speaker 2>No, that's so I want to give you just this is,

0:26:46.236 --> 0:26:50.396
<v Speaker 2>uh how like my Hamilton, how I've seen Hamilton from

0:26:50.396 --> 0:26:52.556
<v Speaker 2>the outside, because that ends in a very personal way.

0:26:53.156 --> 0:26:55.876
<v Speaker 2>Otherwise we wouldn't necessarily talk about it. But like, I'm

0:26:55.876 --> 0:26:58.516
<v Speaker 2>a person who like I was living in Oakland when

0:26:58.556 --> 0:27:00.636
<v Speaker 2>Hamilton hit, and all I knew about Hamilton was that

0:27:00.716 --> 0:27:03.076
<v Speaker 2>people in New York Twitter were like raving over Like

0:27:03.676 --> 0:27:05.956
<v Speaker 2>that was like when Twitter was Twitter, you know, yeah,

0:27:05.996 --> 0:27:07.876
<v Speaker 2>and Twitter was talking about Hamilton.

0:27:07.996 --> 0:27:08.156
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:27:08.476 --> 0:27:10.876
<v Speaker 2>And at the time, I didn't know if I was

0:27:10.876 --> 0:27:12.476
<v Speaker 2>ever gonna see it. My wife's a big Broadway person,

0:27:12.556 --> 0:27:13.636
<v Speaker 2>but we were not in a position to go to

0:27:13.716 --> 0:27:15.596
<v Speaker 2>Broadway and see these things. So I just and then

0:27:15.596 --> 0:27:18.116
<v Speaker 2>I remember, and then it like then it tours, and

0:27:18.116 --> 0:27:20.876
<v Speaker 2>then more people start to see it, and then my

0:27:20.916 --> 0:27:22.716
<v Speaker 2>wife starts to see it, and then it becomes Hamilton

0:27:22.796 --> 0:27:26.716
<v Speaker 2>and it's everywhere and everybody's talking about it, uh pandemic

0:27:26.756 --> 0:27:30.116
<v Speaker 2>it airs on Disney Plus and then the Hamilton discourse begins.

0:27:33.476 --> 0:27:35.276
<v Speaker 2>And I sort of had this feeling that because my

0:27:35.276 --> 0:27:38.276
<v Speaker 2>wife loves Broadway that like, I don't know that Broadways

0:27:38.276 --> 0:27:40.876
<v Speaker 2>for everybody, Like I think that, like there's a reason

0:27:40.916 --> 0:27:42.636
<v Speaker 2>why it's in New York and the people who want

0:27:42.636 --> 0:27:44.636
<v Speaker 2>to see it go see it. I agree, and that

0:27:44.796 --> 0:27:47.716
<v Speaker 2>like I feel like you can basically discourse every Broadway

0:27:47.716 --> 0:27:50.676
<v Speaker 2>play because it's just it's just. And I know if

0:27:50.676 --> 0:27:53.396
<v Speaker 2>it's a Broadway it's just it's it's about there's a

0:27:53.396 --> 0:27:55.596
<v Speaker 2>lot of suspension of disbelief that happens when you go

0:27:55.596 --> 0:27:58.036
<v Speaker 2>into a theater, like a Broadway theater, and why is

0:27:58.036 --> 0:27:58.996
<v Speaker 2>everybody singing at me?

0:27:59.196 --> 0:28:01.876
<v Speaker 1>You know, why is it? Why are there? Why isn't there?

0:28:01.876 --> 0:28:02.676
<v Speaker 1>There's why isn't there that?

0:28:02.716 --> 0:28:05.596
<v Speaker 2>But so the Hamilton discourse starts, which you know, which

0:28:05.636 --> 0:28:07.316
<v Speaker 2>we don't have to get into, but it's just about

0:28:07.356 --> 0:28:10.196
<v Speaker 2>like is this thing is? Is this thing the thing

0:28:10.236 --> 0:28:11.596
<v Speaker 2>that it is? Or is it not the thing that

0:28:11.636 --> 0:28:13.436
<v Speaker 2>it is? And how why would you do the thing

0:28:13.436 --> 0:28:15.356
<v Speaker 2>this way? And D D D dad and all these things.

0:28:15.556 --> 0:28:17.676
<v Speaker 2>And I remember seeing that Hamilton discourse and being like

0:28:17.836 --> 0:28:20.756
<v Speaker 2>at the time, knowing you and be like, man, it's

0:28:20.796 --> 0:28:22.196
<v Speaker 2>not his play, but he's in the middle of this

0:28:22.676 --> 0:28:24.116
<v Speaker 2>and sort of feeling like how does it feel to

0:28:24.116 --> 0:28:25.636
<v Speaker 2>be in the middle of this and sort of like

0:28:25.676 --> 0:28:28.516
<v Speaker 2>and then everybody and then it feels like that happened,

0:28:29.516 --> 0:28:31.356
<v Speaker 2>you know, we also in the pandemic and we all

0:28:31.396 --> 0:28:33.356
<v Speaker 2>and then we sort of come back, and then then

0:28:33.396 --> 0:28:35.796
<v Speaker 2>you all are at the Tonys and it's suddenly like

0:28:35.916 --> 0:28:37.356
<v Speaker 2>it's okay.

0:28:37.676 --> 0:28:40.436
<v Speaker 3>Ten years will do a lot like we're back, we're.

0:28:40.556 --> 0:28:42.676
<v Speaker 1>Maybe, and we're celebrating the anniversary.

0:28:42.876 --> 0:28:45.036
<v Speaker 2>My favorite moment of the Tonys is when you you

0:28:45.036 --> 0:28:46.956
<v Speaker 2>did that jump. I was watching with my daughter and

0:28:47.036 --> 0:28:47.636
<v Speaker 2>she heard me go.

0:28:47.596 --> 0:28:52.476
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah. I got text from everybody I know like

0:28:52.556 --> 0:28:55.236
<v Speaker 3>are you okay? You're okay? I think I might have

0:28:55.276 --> 0:28:56.036
<v Speaker 3>said my niece.

0:28:57.396 --> 0:29:00.996
<v Speaker 4>Literally, I don't think I've ever gotten more reach outs

0:29:01.036 --> 0:29:01.836
<v Speaker 4>like for anything.

0:29:01.916 --> 0:29:02.116
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:29:02.236 --> 0:29:04.716
<v Speaker 2>It was just like I watched it several times because

0:29:04.756 --> 0:29:06.876
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I couldn't pull that off even at

0:29:06.916 --> 0:29:09.836
<v Speaker 2>my best, my most athletic day of my life, but

0:29:09.916 --> 0:29:11.636
<v Speaker 2>like that was truly impressed.

0:29:11.676 --> 0:29:14.556
<v Speaker 4>I got separate phone calls before, you know, when we

0:29:14.636 --> 0:29:18.356
<v Speaker 4>had decided to do that, from both Lynn and Andy

0:29:18.436 --> 0:29:21.556
<v Speaker 4>the choreographer, both reached out like separately being like, can

0:29:21.596 --> 0:29:23.876
<v Speaker 4>you jump off a table? I was like, I can't

0:29:23.876 --> 0:29:26.036
<v Speaker 4>do it. Eight times a week but I could. I

0:29:26.036 --> 0:29:29.956
<v Speaker 4>could probably get it up one time. There's and that

0:29:30.076 --> 0:29:32.436
<v Speaker 4>is something about you that that I was respect you.

0:29:32.556 --> 0:29:36.956
<v Speaker 2>There's an athletic, kinetic nature about you as an actor

0:29:37.556 --> 0:29:39.156
<v Speaker 2>that is just that is also a part of your

0:29:39.236 --> 0:29:40.436
<v Speaker 2>that seems to be a part of your process.

0:29:40.516 --> 0:29:42.876
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, man, I you know, I came up running track,

0:29:42.956 --> 0:29:45.196
<v Speaker 4>and so you know, from when I was nine till

0:29:45.516 --> 0:29:47.196
<v Speaker 4>post colle ran all the way through college and was

0:29:47.236 --> 0:29:48.756
<v Speaker 4>trying thought I might be able to make the trials

0:29:48.836 --> 0:29:49.636
<v Speaker 4>or something after college.

0:29:49.716 --> 0:29:51.196
<v Speaker 3>I was really it was really.

0:29:50.956 --> 0:29:53.116
<v Speaker 4>Important to me and it is still the thing that

0:29:53.196 --> 0:29:56.276
<v Speaker 4>I miss the most is that that, you know, I

0:29:56.316 --> 0:29:59.876
<v Speaker 4>think most former athletes have this this thing where you

0:30:00.116 --> 0:30:04.316
<v Speaker 4>just there was a kind of especially for me, where

0:30:04.316 --> 0:30:05.996
<v Speaker 4>I'm not I'm you know, I'm a pretty I'm a

0:30:06.476 --> 0:30:08.876
<v Speaker 4>I'm a relatively shy person. I'm like not, you know,

0:30:08.876 --> 0:30:12.276
<v Speaker 4>I'm I play a lot of boisterous characters or I'm

0:30:12.396 --> 0:30:16.356
<v Speaker 4>really that way in my life. It was a way

0:30:16.396 --> 0:30:21.236
<v Speaker 4>to just quietly walk around and feel superior to and

0:30:21.276 --> 0:30:23.956
<v Speaker 4>it's like you have this superpower. I can run really

0:30:23.996 --> 0:30:27.196
<v Speaker 4>fast and I like jump over these I was a hurdler,

0:30:27.236 --> 0:30:28.796
<v Speaker 4>so like I could also do this kind of like

0:30:28.876 --> 0:30:33.076
<v Speaker 4>weird timing, technical flexibility thing that like you know, is

0:30:33.236 --> 0:30:37.316
<v Speaker 4>useless probably in life, especially giving it.

0:30:37.236 --> 0:30:38.156
<v Speaker 1>Gets over there quickly.

0:30:38.196 --> 0:30:41.836
<v Speaker 4>But there's a bunch of you know, especially with my

0:30:41.876 --> 0:30:44.396
<v Speaker 4>life choices, I'm running from the police or anything like that. Like,

0:30:44.796 --> 0:30:48.276
<v Speaker 4>but but it was just nice you had that thing,

0:30:48.676 --> 0:30:52.076
<v Speaker 4>and that just like all physical things goes away with age,

0:30:52.476 --> 0:30:55.436
<v Speaker 4>you know. And so when I get those opportunities to

0:30:55.516 --> 0:30:59.556
<v Speaker 4>do that on on shows or in TV work or whatever.

0:30:59.636 --> 0:31:02.756
<v Speaker 4>You know, I'm always annoying my stump performer by being

0:31:02.796 --> 0:31:03.756
<v Speaker 4>like how much you go let me do?

0:31:04.396 --> 0:31:05.996
<v Speaker 3>Like can you can you teach me that thing? Like

0:31:05.996 --> 0:31:07.356
<v Speaker 3>when we better if I died that thing.

0:31:08.356 --> 0:31:10.556
<v Speaker 1>Because then you can you get the camera right.

0:31:11.756 --> 0:31:14.716
<v Speaker 2>So to wrap up the Hamilton discourse, that just about

0:31:14.756 --> 0:31:16.836
<v Speaker 2>seeing you, Tony's the reason why my daughter.

0:31:16.676 --> 0:31:18.836
<v Speaker 1>Was watching it, My my Juno.

0:31:18.916 --> 0:31:21.836
<v Speaker 2>She's now twelve at the time, she's probably ten because

0:31:21.876 --> 0:31:24.916
<v Speaker 2>she became a kid who fell into Broadway and fell

0:31:24.956 --> 0:31:27.196
<v Speaker 2>into Hamilton. And then I'd be walking around my house

0:31:27.396 --> 0:31:29.236
<v Speaker 2>and here a ten year old be like, how goes

0:31:29.276 --> 0:31:32.596
<v Speaker 2>the best? And it was just like, I don't care

0:31:32.636 --> 0:31:36.116
<v Speaker 2>what anybody said. This thing is is like I just

0:31:36.236 --> 0:31:37.516
<v Speaker 2>was like it was just so cool to see it

0:31:37.556 --> 0:31:40.076
<v Speaker 2>in my life come full circle and come around like

0:31:40.116 --> 0:31:42.076
<v Speaker 2>now I got this ten year old who is wrapping

0:31:42.076 --> 0:31:44.676
<v Speaker 2>to herself in her bedroom lyrics from Hamilton.

0:31:45.236 --> 0:31:45.796
<v Speaker 3>It's wild.

0:31:45.956 --> 0:31:49.116
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's a I never know whether to apologize her

0:31:49.156 --> 0:31:49.916
<v Speaker 4>parents or to.

0:31:51.076 --> 0:31:54.276
<v Speaker 2>There are creators who need to apologize. Are you involved

0:31:54.276 --> 0:31:56.836
<v Speaker 2>in Coco Melon because Yeah.

0:31:56.476 --> 0:31:58.436
<v Speaker 4>What's funny is we were at clipping was asked to

0:31:58.436 --> 0:32:00.276
<v Speaker 4>contribute to sorry to Cocomelon, and we were all like,

0:32:00.396 --> 0:32:01.116
<v Speaker 4>absolutely not.

0:32:01.436 --> 0:32:03.076
<v Speaker 1>I can don't even understand how that would work.

0:32:04.436 --> 0:32:06.996
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you know, we made Puppy ver Hanka, so

0:32:07.036 --> 0:32:08.036
<v Speaker 3>we have some Yeah, but I.

0:32:08.036 --> 0:32:11.036
<v Speaker 2>Did, But Cocomelons anyway, that's a whole nother podcast. But

0:32:11.156 --> 0:32:13.796
<v Speaker 2>like luckily my seven year old who was the Cocomela

0:32:13.836 --> 0:32:15.716
<v Speaker 2>and fiend is out of it for several years. But

0:32:15.756 --> 0:32:17.396
<v Speaker 2>it was a I don't have I don't, I don't,

0:32:17.396 --> 0:32:19.436
<v Speaker 2>you don't. You don't need apologize for Hamilton. There's other

0:32:19.476 --> 0:32:21.076
<v Speaker 2>things I would like to talk to people about, to

0:32:21.276 --> 0:32:41.996
<v Speaker 2>other other child creators. So for me just to see

0:32:42.436 --> 0:32:46.036
<v Speaker 2>it as an inroads for this ten year old to

0:32:46.196 --> 0:32:49.276
<v Speaker 2>like music and to hip hop, yeah, was like I

0:32:49.356 --> 0:32:51.756
<v Speaker 2>think it's just like becomes like That's that's what you

0:32:51.796 --> 0:32:52.556
<v Speaker 2>want right there, right.

0:32:52.676 --> 0:32:54.756
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's a pretty wild you know, that's not

0:32:54.796 --> 0:32:56.756
<v Speaker 4>what we thought we were doing, I don't think, but sure,

0:32:56.796 --> 0:32:59.716
<v Speaker 4>it's amazing that that's happened. Well, the thing that it

0:32:59.796 --> 0:33:02.756
<v Speaker 4>did is just the thing that Lynn is, which is

0:33:02.796 --> 0:33:05.396
<v Speaker 4>like a person who exists at the intersection of exactly

0:33:05.476 --> 0:33:08.756
<v Speaker 4>those things that there are, a history buff who is

0:33:09.396 --> 0:33:13.716
<v Speaker 4>as knowledgeable about Broadway as he is about rap music

0:33:13.876 --> 0:33:17.476
<v Speaker 4>and and so that it's like this show is just

0:33:17.516 --> 0:33:19.796
<v Speaker 4>like the intersection of the things he loves. And that's

0:33:20.076 --> 0:33:22.876
<v Speaker 4>he's a pretty like unique, fascinating person. But he's so

0:33:23.836 --> 0:33:26.316
<v Speaker 4>kind of his you see this when you see him,

0:33:26.316 --> 0:33:29.316
<v Speaker 4>when you see him speak publicly or whatever. His gift

0:33:29.436 --> 0:33:33.996
<v Speaker 4>is that he lets everybody into its very and that

0:33:33.996 --> 0:33:36.676
<v Speaker 4>that was it there. These are actually sort of three

0:33:36.716 --> 0:33:41.996
<v Speaker 4>spheres that always feel incredibly gate kept right, and he

0:33:42.116 --> 0:33:42.596
<v Speaker 4>was just like.

0:33:42.796 --> 0:33:46.236
<v Speaker 3>Or or the everybody could just walk in.

0:33:46.396 --> 0:33:48.676
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I just wanted to give you my

0:33:48.836 --> 0:33:51.676
<v Speaker 2>this is my my Hamilton, the arc of my Hamilton

0:33:52.076 --> 0:33:55.476
<v Speaker 2>relationship based on my twelve year old who's very excited

0:33:55.476 --> 0:33:58.796
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking to you. The other thing that I when

0:33:58.796 --> 0:34:02.676
<v Speaker 2>I think about you is just public displays of men

0:34:03.116 --> 0:34:06.116
<v Speaker 2>in community. Men who are friends is such a cool thing,

0:34:06.596 --> 0:34:08.556
<v Speaker 2>like dudes who have each other's backs all the time

0:34:08.716 --> 0:34:11.356
<v Speaker 2>and don't so you and Rafa is like this as

0:34:11.396 --> 0:34:15.556
<v Speaker 2>this sort of like one of the most exactly one

0:34:15.556 --> 0:34:17.996
<v Speaker 2>of the most adorable things being Kelly Rafferty, who was

0:34:17.996 --> 0:34:20.276
<v Speaker 2>who worked with me for years when we discovered the

0:34:20.316 --> 0:34:23.716
<v Speaker 2>Calvin and Hobbes videos, you guys did. I mean, it's

0:34:23.756 --> 0:34:27.596
<v Speaker 2>just like it's like they're so sweet and so sacrid

0:34:27.636 --> 0:34:30.036
<v Speaker 2>and so underrated. Like I feel like I just want

0:34:30.076 --> 0:34:31.916
<v Speaker 2>if anything can happen on this podcast, I need people

0:34:31.916 --> 0:34:32.916
<v Speaker 2>to go watch those videos.

0:34:32.996 --> 0:34:33.196
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:34:33.236 --> 0:34:36.756
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but they're not too many because I'll just get

0:34:36.756 --> 0:34:38.396
<v Speaker 4>taken out.

0:34:37.156 --> 0:34:39.876
<v Speaker 2>I don't think the calviny, I don't think he's that

0:34:39.916 --> 0:34:43.236
<v Speaker 2>worried about it. Yeah, I'm sure, yeah, but anyway, I

0:34:43.236 --> 0:34:44.876
<v Speaker 2>don't want to I don't want to get him. But anyway,

0:34:45.516 --> 0:34:49.156
<v Speaker 2>just talk about being uh that this is you know,

0:34:49.436 --> 0:34:51.476
<v Speaker 2>we all have this, many of us be friends with

0:34:51.476 --> 0:34:53.156
<v Speaker 2>somebody in high school, like we're going to be friends

0:34:53.156 --> 0:34:55.836
<v Speaker 2>forever or we're gonna do things forever, and then you know,

0:34:55.916 --> 0:34:59.036
<v Speaker 2>things don't happen that way. Talk about being friends for

0:34:59.116 --> 0:35:02.676
<v Speaker 2>a long time, publicly professionally and continually.

0:35:02.916 --> 0:35:07.076
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, man, I mean Rafa so we you know, we

0:35:07.156 --> 0:35:09.956
<v Speaker 4>actually we knew each other and high school, but we

0:35:12.516 --> 0:35:15.036
<v Speaker 4>uh we actually didn't start really hanging out very much.

0:35:15.076 --> 0:35:16.316
<v Speaker 4>So I was a little bit older than he was

0:35:16.396 --> 0:35:18.276
<v Speaker 4>until I got back from college. So it's like two

0:35:18.316 --> 0:35:24.436
<v Speaker 4>thousand and four, and uh, one of my best friends

0:35:25.036 --> 0:35:28.116
<v Speaker 4>his little brothers the same classes as Rafael and were

0:35:28.156 --> 0:35:29.356
<v Speaker 4>they were very good friends.

0:35:29.356 --> 0:35:29.676
<v Speaker 1>And so.

0:35:31.316 --> 0:35:34.436
<v Speaker 4>Raphael at whatever he was at the time, eighteen years old,

0:35:34.556 --> 0:35:37.316
<v Speaker 4>nineteen years old, was already running a recording studio in

0:35:38.476 --> 0:35:43.716
<v Speaker 4>North Oakland, and and my friend.

0:35:43.556 --> 0:35:45.116
<v Speaker 3>Justin was like, you gotta go, you should go. You

0:35:45.196 --> 0:35:47.396
<v Speaker 3>guys got you know, you guys go ahead.

0:35:47.436 --> 0:35:48.996
<v Speaker 4>So we got like set up on a rapper play

0:35:49.076 --> 0:35:51.436
<v Speaker 4>date basically and that and that was it. Like we

0:35:51.476 --> 0:35:53.596
<v Speaker 4>stayed up till four in the morning that first night.

0:35:53.636 --> 0:35:55.556
<v Speaker 4>I was there making a song and we got in

0:35:55.596 --> 0:35:57.236
<v Speaker 4>the car and we listened to the song because that's

0:35:57.316 --> 0:36:00.516
<v Speaker 4>as is the custom. And then uh, then I was

0:36:00.516 --> 0:36:03.516
<v Speaker 4>there pretty much every night. I have probably spoken to

0:36:03.596 --> 0:36:08.556
<v Speaker 4>him almost every day since then, Eida, But it was

0:36:09.236 --> 0:36:13.636
<v Speaker 4>it's just yeah, it's crazy when you I think, especially

0:36:13.636 --> 0:36:19.836
<v Speaker 4>at that age early twenties, you know, when you're really

0:36:20.156 --> 0:36:23.196
<v Speaker 4>trying to figure it out. And if you're an artist

0:36:23.196 --> 0:36:26.436
<v Speaker 4>and you find someone you click with artistically, that's incredibly valuable.

0:36:26.836 --> 0:36:29.196
<v Speaker 3>That person also becomes somebody who.

0:36:29.236 --> 0:36:34.236
<v Speaker 4>You trust, who you're you're making mistakes together and growing

0:36:34.316 --> 0:36:36.036
<v Speaker 4>up together, and you know, has your back and has

0:36:36.076 --> 0:36:38.596
<v Speaker 4>seeing you at your worst and is still there and

0:36:38.716 --> 0:36:42.036
<v Speaker 4>get forces you to celebrate your wins. Like Rafa is

0:36:42.076 --> 0:36:43.956
<v Speaker 4>so good with that for me, because I'm not a

0:36:44.076 --> 0:36:47.516
<v Speaker 4>celebration type and he, for my whole life, has always

0:36:47.516 --> 0:36:48.876
<v Speaker 4>been like try to eat.

0:36:48.716 --> 0:36:50.956
<v Speaker 1>Me flowers and you're like, I know, yeah, yeah.

0:36:50.756 --> 0:36:53.676
<v Speaker 4>But he's he's yeah, he has always been the one

0:36:53.716 --> 0:36:56.756
<v Speaker 4>who's like, we gotta let's acknowledge it. Who knows how

0:36:56.756 --> 0:37:00.316
<v Speaker 4>many of these we get, you know, so he's he's

0:37:00.356 --> 0:37:00.836
<v Speaker 4>one of those.

0:37:00.876 --> 0:37:02.196
<v Speaker 3>And so it's.

0:37:04.036 --> 0:37:08.316
<v Speaker 4>It's interesting, we're, uh, we're writing another film together right now,

0:37:08.316 --> 0:37:12.596
<v Speaker 4>and it is kind of about the how that kind

0:37:12.636 --> 0:37:15.556
<v Speaker 4>of a friendship ages and what happens, you know, when.

0:37:15.676 --> 0:37:17.076
<v Speaker 3>Kids get them all on the study, you know, like

0:37:18.476 --> 0:37:20.596
<v Speaker 3>just yeah, what you know we made?

0:37:20.596 --> 0:37:25.236
<v Speaker 4>Blind Spotting is essentially about like a you know, young man,

0:37:25.476 --> 0:37:29.756
<v Speaker 4>late twenties, right, that kind of male friendship, and now

0:37:29.836 --> 0:37:33.756
<v Speaker 4>what's what's a forties male friendship? Like, like you know,

0:37:35.236 --> 0:37:37.596
<v Speaker 4>and what are those changes and how do you know,

0:37:39.596 --> 0:37:40.676
<v Speaker 4>how do those things grow together?

0:37:40.716 --> 0:37:41.236
<v Speaker 3>But it is.

0:37:42.876 --> 0:37:45.516
<v Speaker 4>I think to me, what's interesting about it is it's

0:37:45.556 --> 0:37:50.036
<v Speaker 4>both absolutely effortless and also incredibly intentional.

0:37:50.156 --> 0:37:53.716
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah, when you're in your forties. I don't

0:37:53.716 --> 0:37:55.196
<v Speaker 2>know if this is true for women. As a man,

0:37:55.276 --> 0:37:57.396
<v Speaker 2>you have to be intentional to stay friends with your men,

0:37:57.476 --> 0:37:59.756
<v Speaker 2>friends anybody, Yeah, because it just sort of, yeah, are

0:37:59.916 --> 0:38:02.116
<v Speaker 2>with your friends because it can just easy because you

0:38:02.156 --> 0:38:03.756
<v Speaker 2>get so caught up in whatever your life is.

0:38:03.836 --> 0:38:05.796
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they like I don't even talk to that dude anymore.

0:38:05.876 --> 0:38:08.156
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, when your life just

0:38:08.196 --> 0:38:11.676
<v Speaker 4>stopped involving friends like as a necessary part of life,

0:38:11.676 --> 0:38:12.356
<v Speaker 4>it kind of does.

0:38:12.836 --> 0:38:15.036
<v Speaker 3>Uh, it's some ways. So yeah, it has to be intentional.

0:38:15.196 --> 0:38:18.476
<v Speaker 4>But I mean even all of our you know, starting

0:38:18.516 --> 0:38:21.916
<v Speaker 4>to when we were working together when when blind spoting happened,

0:38:21.956 --> 0:38:26.556
<v Speaker 4>and it happened after Hamilton and so there was like

0:38:27.196 --> 0:38:29.276
<v Speaker 4>for two people actually honestly in the bay when we

0:38:29.276 --> 0:38:31.436
<v Speaker 4>were making rap songs, like Rafa was kind of the

0:38:31.476 --> 0:38:34.076
<v Speaker 4>famous one, so he had the deaf poetry thing going. Honestly,

0:38:34.076 --> 0:38:36.156
<v Speaker 4>he had like a huge YouTube following. He was the

0:38:36.156 --> 0:38:37.756
<v Speaker 4>one who was able to book shows out of town

0:38:37.796 --> 0:38:39.796
<v Speaker 4>and he would always bring us a lot. Was always like,

0:38:40.156 --> 0:38:42.876
<v Speaker 4>you know, so he was the one opening door so

0:38:42.956 --> 0:38:45.676
<v Speaker 4>everybody could run through. And then this this thing happened.

0:38:45.796 --> 0:38:47.996
<v Speaker 4>Now like the sort of balance had shifted the other way.

0:38:48.036 --> 0:38:50.596
<v Speaker 4>People knew my name, wanted to talk to me, and

0:38:51.356 --> 0:38:54.476
<v Speaker 4>like navigating those kinds of things. And then now you're

0:38:54.516 --> 0:38:57.276
<v Speaker 4>adding agents and managers and stuff on top of that,

0:38:57.356 --> 0:38:59.676
<v Speaker 4>who like don't understand the history of it and who

0:38:59.956 --> 0:39:02.236
<v Speaker 4>you know? There are so many hard conversations that had

0:39:02.276 --> 0:39:02.636
<v Speaker 4>to be had.

0:39:02.676 --> 0:39:04.396
<v Speaker 1>Well like I know you suggest Draffa, but who else

0:39:04.396 --> 0:39:04.916
<v Speaker 1>should we look at?

0:39:05.396 --> 0:39:10.316
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like literally nobody, but also know, hard conversations them

0:39:10.356 --> 0:39:13.396
<v Speaker 4>hard conversations with each other about you know, we've we've

0:39:13.436 --> 0:39:16.996
<v Speaker 4>had to we've developed a pretty good muscle now for

0:39:17.116 --> 0:39:19.676
<v Speaker 4>on projects that we're working on together, like sitting down

0:39:19.756 --> 0:39:21.516
<v Speaker 4>really before we even get into it and being like,

0:39:22.116 --> 0:39:24.316
<v Speaker 4>what is important to you about this and what's important

0:39:24.356 --> 0:39:26.316
<v Speaker 4>to me about this, and let's get really clear on that.

0:39:26.356 --> 0:39:28.636
<v Speaker 4>What are non negotiables so that when all the bullshit

0:39:28.676 --> 0:39:32.476
<v Speaker 4>starts happening, it's going to happen like we can. We

0:39:32.476 --> 0:39:35.636
<v Speaker 4>can know that, like we are satisfying these things and

0:39:35.676 --> 0:39:37.356
<v Speaker 4>we get we get that really clear.

0:39:37.156 --> 0:39:40.156
<v Speaker 1>Before like what do we both want out of this? Yeah?

0:39:40.236 --> 0:39:42.076
<v Speaker 2>Is that when the when all the crazy, when all

0:39:42.076 --> 0:39:44.396
<v Speaker 2>the show is nonsense happens, we can remember, well, I

0:39:44.476 --> 0:39:45.596
<v Speaker 2>just need this and you need.

0:39:45.396 --> 0:39:50.396
<v Speaker 4>That, right because you know, when you start, especially with us,

0:39:50.396 --> 0:39:53.276
<v Speaker 4>when you start talking about like who wrote what or

0:39:53.316 --> 0:39:54.316
<v Speaker 4>whose idea.

0:39:54.116 --> 0:39:55.876
<v Speaker 3>Is, it's like, not what are you talking about? Like

0:39:55.916 --> 0:39:56.876
<v Speaker 3>that's not how it works.

0:39:57.556 --> 0:40:00.156
<v Speaker 1>It's like Lennon McCartney, we were both there talking about it.

0:40:00.356 --> 0:40:03.036
<v Speaker 4>We sit down and we eat food, and then like

0:40:03.436 --> 0:40:05.196
<v Speaker 4>you know, a year later there's a thing. But it's

0:40:06.676 --> 0:40:10.276
<v Speaker 4>so yeah, we've had to realize that, and this word

0:40:10.356 --> 0:40:13.116
<v Speaker 4>the Hollywood business is very much about dividing those things

0:40:13.196 --> 0:40:15.476
<v Speaker 4>up and being like credit, the credit is what you need,

0:40:15.516 --> 0:40:18.236
<v Speaker 4>and so we tend to decide early on, like what's

0:40:18.276 --> 0:40:19.436
<v Speaker 4>the credit you need from this?

0:40:19.596 --> 0:40:19.716
<v Speaker 3>Bro?

0:40:19.916 --> 0:40:23.236
<v Speaker 4>Like what's the what do we say? Obviously it doesn't matter,

0:40:23.316 --> 0:40:24.996
<v Speaker 4>like the work doesn't matter. We're going to do what

0:40:25.036 --> 0:40:27.356
<v Speaker 4>we do. What what what do you need.

0:40:27.236 --> 0:40:27.556
<v Speaker 1>Out of this?

0:40:27.676 --> 0:40:29.636
<v Speaker 4>Or what do I need out of this? Okay, let's

0:40:29.716 --> 0:40:32.076
<v Speaker 4>do that let's make that happen. Let's send the teams

0:40:32.116 --> 0:40:33.476
<v Speaker 4>off to accomplish that.

0:40:33.916 --> 0:40:34.476
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would.

0:40:34.796 --> 0:40:37.076
<v Speaker 2>That's the part about it that is so remarkable to

0:40:37.116 --> 0:40:39.756
<v Speaker 2>me because once the as you know, I mean, you know,

0:40:39.836 --> 0:40:43.196
<v Speaker 2>being a person who's also a rapper, the money has

0:40:43.236 --> 0:40:45.556
<v Speaker 2>broken up a lot of friends in a wrapper, It's

0:40:45.596 --> 0:40:48.156
<v Speaker 2>broken up a lot of crews, like a lot of

0:40:48.196 --> 0:40:50.476
<v Speaker 2>boys falling apart over money.

0:40:50.516 --> 0:40:53.396
<v Speaker 3>That's true. Ours, maybe ours didn't come from rap.

0:40:53.236 --> 0:40:56.156
<v Speaker 2>But just I would imagine that there's probably it's got

0:40:56.236 --> 0:40:58.356
<v Speaker 2>to be certain times where you have to sort of

0:40:58.356 --> 0:41:01.556
<v Speaker 2>go stop, let's talk about this, because the would you

0:41:01.596 --> 0:41:03.356
<v Speaker 2>want to prioritize the friendship.

0:41:03.076 --> 0:41:04.316
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, oh absolutely.

0:41:04.836 --> 0:41:09.436
<v Speaker 4>It turns out that these yeah, having relationships for that long,

0:41:10.396 --> 0:41:13.476
<v Speaker 4>you have to talk things out. Yeah, stuff does get weird,

0:41:13.636 --> 0:41:18.476
<v Speaker 4>you know, and stuff and time passes and you don't know.

0:41:18.876 --> 0:41:22.316
<v Speaker 4>You go from when you're young and you're just hanging

0:41:22.316 --> 0:41:24.996
<v Speaker 4>out in studios or whatever. You spend all you know,

0:41:25.076 --> 0:41:27.196
<v Speaker 4>most of your free time is together, so you don't

0:41:27.196 --> 0:41:28.516
<v Speaker 4>actually have to have those check ins.

0:41:28.596 --> 0:41:34.356
<v Speaker 3>I just saw you and I'll see you again.

0:41:34.396 --> 0:41:36.636
<v Speaker 2>And you're and you're also now if you two are working,

0:41:36.916 --> 0:41:38.396
<v Speaker 2>there's not a sense of like We'll just do this

0:41:38.516 --> 0:41:40.876
<v Speaker 2>until four in the morning, because I got a kid.

0:41:41.436 --> 0:41:43.876
<v Speaker 4>Nothing until four in the morning. She's up at six.

0:41:43.996 --> 0:41:47.996
<v Speaker 4>I'm like yeah, but yeah, and we work. You know,

0:41:48.036 --> 0:41:51.076
<v Speaker 4>he's off shooting a TV show right now. So also,

0:41:51.156 --> 0:41:54.756
<v Speaker 4>like geographically, we're just spread out and time is different.

0:41:54.796 --> 0:41:57.716
<v Speaker 4>So it's just yeah with the clipping stuff too, Like

0:41:58.036 --> 0:42:00.196
<v Speaker 4>finding time to record now is crazy. When I first

0:42:00.276 --> 0:42:03.156
<v Speaker 4>moved to we started that band in twenty like eleven,

0:42:03.196 --> 0:42:07.196
<v Speaker 4>when I first came down to LA and it's very

0:42:07.196 --> 0:42:09.556
<v Speaker 4>easy to spend all day at Gionathan's house making songs.

0:42:09.556 --> 0:42:15.396
<v Speaker 3>I didn't have anything else to do. Literally, my calendar.

0:42:15.076 --> 0:42:19.636
<v Speaker 1>Was free, like my Google calendar. Yep. I'm free for

0:42:19.716 --> 0:42:20.956
<v Speaker 1>the till the end of time.

0:42:21.036 --> 0:42:23.196
<v Speaker 3>Currently, I've got nothing going on.

0:42:24.116 --> 0:42:26.076
<v Speaker 2>Has there been have you guys been like you said,

0:42:26.116 --> 0:42:29.076
<v Speaker 2>I there's a point when early in relationship where Rafa

0:42:29.196 --> 0:42:31.836
<v Speaker 2>is like the big dog or the more prominent one,

0:42:32.156 --> 0:42:33.836
<v Speaker 2>and then you you're after Hamilton.

0:42:34.236 --> 0:42:35.396
<v Speaker 1>Is there is there any tension?

0:42:35.396 --> 0:42:38.356
<v Speaker 2>There is there any sort of like guilt survivors You

0:42:38.356 --> 0:42:40.476
<v Speaker 2>know that the I deal with a lot.

0:42:40.396 --> 0:42:45.436
<v Speaker 4>Of survivors guilt, but not with that relationship. Really, I

0:42:45.476 --> 0:42:50.196
<v Speaker 4>think the tension is always from it's not from within

0:42:50.276 --> 0:42:53.076
<v Speaker 4>the relationship, right, it's always from outside, But it's always

0:42:53.516 --> 0:42:57.236
<v Speaker 4>it's and it is often like I, how do I

0:42:58.996 --> 0:43:01.436
<v Speaker 4>where it has been with me? And Rabbit's not really

0:43:01.436 --> 0:43:04.996
<v Speaker 4>like this now. But at some points early on it

0:43:05.076 --> 0:43:08.076
<v Speaker 4>was like, well, how what can I do to even

0:43:08.076 --> 0:43:13.236
<v Speaker 4>this out? Because there's no way I can get the

0:43:13.636 --> 0:43:15.156
<v Speaker 4>thing isn't out yet, right, there's no way that I

0:43:15.156 --> 0:43:17.956
<v Speaker 4>can get them to see it. So what's the what's

0:43:17.996 --> 0:43:19.636
<v Speaker 4>the thing that I can do the level this playing

0:43:19.636 --> 0:43:20.356
<v Speaker 4>field or something?

0:43:21.556 --> 0:43:23.076
<v Speaker 1>What do you mean the thing isn't out yet.

0:43:23.116 --> 0:43:24.956
<v Speaker 4>Like when we were making blind spoting or whatever, you know,

0:43:25.076 --> 0:43:26.356
<v Speaker 4>for example, like trying to get.

0:43:26.196 --> 0:43:30.316
<v Speaker 3>That once this comes out, I think it's very obvious that.

0:43:30.676 --> 0:43:31.236
<v Speaker 1>We're a duo.

0:43:31.476 --> 0:43:33.556
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but right now it's not here. But so you're

0:43:33.636 --> 0:43:36.156
<v Speaker 2>feeling I'm doing half the work, but the world sees

0:43:36.196 --> 0:43:38.516
<v Speaker 2>you as being the guy. Yeah, I want you to

0:43:38.516 --> 0:43:40.676
<v Speaker 2>feel like I value your input into this.

0:43:40.956 --> 0:43:43.236
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so I used to worry about that a lot more,

0:43:43.276 --> 0:43:46.316
<v Speaker 4>but we've we've gotten pretty good at it. But yeah,

0:43:46.836 --> 0:43:49.276
<v Speaker 4>talk about being a dead is the best thing I've

0:43:49.276 --> 0:43:49.636
<v Speaker 4>ever done.

0:43:49.676 --> 0:43:52.996
<v Speaker 3>It's not even close, but it it did.

0:43:54.276 --> 0:43:58.436
<v Speaker 4>It was that I really liked being on the road before,

0:43:58.516 --> 0:44:03.636
<v Speaker 4>and I really enjoyed. Yeah, there's a certain kind of

0:44:03.756 --> 0:44:06.356
<v Speaker 4>like high that you get from that, like not sleep

0:44:06.556 --> 0:44:10.236
<v Speaker 4>like different city, every day kind of life. And now

0:44:10.236 --> 0:44:12.876
<v Speaker 4>I just literally everything is to go back home. Like

0:44:13.236 --> 0:44:15.516
<v Speaker 4>how much can I minimize the time away from home?

0:44:15.916 --> 0:44:17.716
<v Speaker 1>Is there a flight after the show? Yeah?

0:44:17.756 --> 0:44:18.876
<v Speaker 3>I'm on Red Eyes.

0:44:18.756 --> 0:44:21.476
<v Speaker 4>All the time, man like like I yeah, or that

0:44:21.676 --> 0:44:24.476
<v Speaker 4>the you know the show I'm working on right now,

0:44:24.556 --> 0:44:27.316
<v Speaker 4>New York. I'm my lap whatever. My last day of

0:44:27.356 --> 0:44:29.236
<v Speaker 4>work is. There's a seven am flight the next day,

0:44:29.276 --> 0:44:31.316
<v Speaker 4>and I'm on it. You know, they can get me

0:44:31.356 --> 0:44:31.516
<v Speaker 4>on it.

0:44:31.556 --> 0:44:32.036
<v Speaker 1>I'm on it.

0:44:33.236 --> 0:44:34.756
<v Speaker 4>And here it's the if you put me on that

0:44:34.876 --> 0:44:36.916
<v Speaker 4>midnight red Eye, I'll take that one.

0:44:37.036 --> 0:44:37.236
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:44:37.356 --> 0:44:39.236
<v Speaker 3>Mostly they don't like me to show up the day

0:44:39.236 --> 0:44:39.996
<v Speaker 3>of that.

0:44:41.556 --> 0:44:44.276
<v Speaker 2>The more you start to like get you know, put

0:44:44.276 --> 0:44:46.276
<v Speaker 2>more miles on yourself, I don't say get older. You

0:44:46.316 --> 0:44:48.316
<v Speaker 2>start to realize I can't do that red Eye flight

0:44:48.476 --> 0:44:49.956
<v Speaker 2>and show up it like, hey, I'm here.

0:44:49.876 --> 0:44:52.196
<v Speaker 1>Everybody, I'm here to work and I'm ready to work.

0:44:52.436 --> 0:44:55.316
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I won't be good exactly, but again, like that's

0:44:55.316 --> 0:44:57.276
<v Speaker 4>actually less of a concern for me. And then spending

0:44:57.276 --> 0:44:59.436
<v Speaker 4>time with my kids like if I get to do bedtime,

0:44:59.476 --> 0:45:00.956
<v Speaker 4>I'll take being shitty tomorrow.

0:45:03.036 --> 0:45:04.596
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna need extra makeup today.

0:45:06.996 --> 0:45:12.236
<v Speaker 4>Uh so yeah, so that thing is has been interesting,

0:45:12.596 --> 0:45:16.796
<v Speaker 4>and but being a dad is it's the it's the.

0:45:16.716 --> 0:45:18.956
<v Speaker 2>Most surprising thing. I mean, I know it's the best thing,

0:45:18.996 --> 0:45:23.396
<v Speaker 2>but talking about some like really like specific things for me,

0:45:23.916 --> 0:45:28.316
<v Speaker 2>I'll say, just to give you an example, like how

0:45:28.436 --> 0:45:32.236
<v Speaker 2>much that like the kid. The moment the kid is born,

0:45:32.716 --> 0:45:35.156
<v Speaker 2>you're actually meeting who they are, and it just reveals

0:45:35.196 --> 0:45:37.756
<v Speaker 2>itself more over time, Like from the day each of

0:45:37.756 --> 0:45:40.476
<v Speaker 2>my three daughters was born. They're that same person, but

0:45:40.516 --> 0:45:42.636
<v Speaker 2>they were the day they were born. It's just because

0:45:42.676 --> 0:45:45.036
<v Speaker 2>I just see it more. Their personality has emerged more

0:45:45.076 --> 0:45:45.476
<v Speaker 2>over time.

0:45:45.556 --> 0:45:46.556
<v Speaker 3>Man, it's so real.

0:45:46.916 --> 0:45:51.276
<v Speaker 1>And so yeah, they're not empty vessels. They don't show up.

0:45:51.316 --> 0:45:54.036
<v Speaker 2>They don't show up like O, well, just put whatever

0:45:54.076 --> 0:45:55.036
<v Speaker 2>personality you wanted me.

0:45:55.316 --> 0:45:55.636
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:45:55.716 --> 0:45:56.356
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I.

0:45:58.276 --> 0:45:58.636
<v Speaker 1>Don't know.

0:45:58.716 --> 0:46:00.436
<v Speaker 4>I don't think I thought that's what it was going

0:46:00.516 --> 0:46:02.476
<v Speaker 4>to be exactly, but I did think i'd have slightly

0:46:02.516 --> 0:46:03.516
<v Speaker 4>more influence than I do.

0:46:03.956 --> 0:46:04.916
<v Speaker 3>For sure, turns out like.

0:46:04.876 --> 0:46:08.276
<v Speaker 4>I don't really have any Sometimes I get lucky, but

0:46:08.436 --> 0:46:11.196
<v Speaker 4>he to he's really into music.

0:46:11.276 --> 0:46:12.116
<v Speaker 3>Which is great.

0:46:13.076 --> 0:46:15.196
<v Speaker 4>And we listen to so much music every day, and

0:46:15.196 --> 0:46:17.556
<v Speaker 4>he's got you know, for for a two year old,

0:46:17.596 --> 0:46:19.676
<v Speaker 4>like you know, generally they want to listen to the

0:46:19.716 --> 0:46:22.076
<v Speaker 4>same things over and over again. But his his playlist

0:46:22.076 --> 0:46:23.796
<v Speaker 4>of songs that he loves that you can sort of

0:46:23.796 --> 0:46:26.796
<v Speaker 4>play anytime is like probably thirty songs long. Now, like

0:46:26.836 --> 0:46:30.276
<v Speaker 4>he's you know, like he's made some musical stamina.

0:46:30.356 --> 0:46:33.436
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and now are these are these kids songs?

0:46:33.556 --> 0:46:33.716
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:46:33.916 --> 0:46:36.156
<v Speaker 3>Almost none of them. I mean, he likes the Bluey

0:46:36.196 --> 0:46:37.556
<v Speaker 3>theme song Come On.

0:46:37.596 --> 0:46:40.116
<v Speaker 1>That's which I don't think is really kids programming.

0:46:40.316 --> 0:46:42.276
<v Speaker 3>No, he doesn't really watch the show.

0:46:42.316 --> 0:46:44.996
<v Speaker 4>I watched the show, but every time the loops back

0:46:45.036 --> 0:46:46.076
<v Speaker 4>to the song.

0:46:47.556 --> 0:46:48.596
<v Speaker 1>It's a show for parents.

0:46:48.676 --> 0:46:51.556
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the cartoon parts for the for the kids,

0:46:51.636 --> 0:46:53.636
<v Speaker 2>but the actual contents.

0:46:53.196 --> 0:46:56.236
<v Speaker 3>For the parents exactly. That show is so amazing.

0:46:56.796 --> 0:47:01.396
<v Speaker 4>But big fan of of of uh.

0:47:00.836 --> 0:47:01.396
<v Speaker 3>G n X.

0:47:01.476 --> 0:47:03.236
<v Speaker 4>Like he was like that was you know, which is

0:47:03.316 --> 0:47:06.276
<v Speaker 4>amazing that it you know, it came out. It was

0:47:06.316 --> 0:47:09.876
<v Speaker 4>for it was literally his generation, and he like that

0:47:09.996 --> 0:47:12.356
<v Speaker 4>Kendrick Lamar halftime show. We were just watching it again.

0:47:12.436 --> 0:47:15.516
<v Speaker 4>He watches it daily. We've had to limit it.

0:47:16.036 --> 0:47:17.876
<v Speaker 1>Eat your vegetables and then we can watch the.

0:47:17.916 --> 0:47:22.116
<v Speaker 3>Kid literally what we do, Like, that's not the statement.

0:47:21.796 --> 0:47:23.276
<v Speaker 1>Have a lot of common because I just watched that

0:47:23.316 --> 0:47:24.716
<v Speaker 1>recently too, again.

0:47:24.596 --> 0:47:27.156
<v Speaker 4>Like yeah we yeah, that's on all the time and

0:47:27.156 --> 0:47:29.516
<v Speaker 4>he has his favorite Peekaboos, his favorite song on the

0:47:30.196 --> 0:47:32.156
<v Speaker 4>which is inappropriate.

0:47:32.156 --> 0:47:35.356
<v Speaker 2>I'm a where my seven year old's a TV off kid.

0:47:35.596 --> 0:47:38.436
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

0:47:38.756 --> 0:47:39.276
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah.

0:47:39.316 --> 0:47:40.356
<v Speaker 3>He calls that song mustard.

0:47:40.516 --> 0:47:43.756
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she was excited to see Mustard at the super Bowl.

0:47:43.796 --> 0:47:44.356
<v Speaker 1>That was that.

0:47:44.516 --> 0:47:48.356
<v Speaker 4>Mustard too, And every time it comes out, he goes here,

0:47:48.436 --> 0:47:53.756
<v Speaker 4>cup Mustard. Yeah, so g had Ex's is out. He's

0:47:53.756 --> 0:47:56.156
<v Speaker 4>a big Brandy Carlisle fan. Didn't get that from me,

0:47:57.396 --> 0:47:59.596
<v Speaker 4>saying I like a lot of choices that are his own.

0:47:59.676 --> 0:48:01.276
<v Speaker 3>Also, that's I would like.

0:48:01.316 --> 0:48:03.876
<v Speaker 2>The musical festival that was like the big stage is

0:48:03.996 --> 0:48:05.356
<v Speaker 2>Kendrick Lamar and Brandy Carlisle.

0:48:05.636 --> 0:48:09.276
<v Speaker 4>Yeah and clipping, Yeah, he only likes a cup all

0:48:09.316 --> 0:48:11.316
<v Speaker 4>of my songs, but he does ask for them, which

0:48:11.316 --> 0:48:11.996
<v Speaker 4>is very sweet.

0:48:11.996 --> 0:48:13.916
<v Speaker 3>He goes one played Dada rapping.

0:48:15.156 --> 0:48:18.436
<v Speaker 4>Breaks my heart and then I'll play a song and

0:48:18.436 --> 0:48:26.596
<v Speaker 4>he's like, not that one, but yeah he's he's.

0:48:27.316 --> 0:48:29.876
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like he discovered I left the room.

0:48:29.836 --> 0:48:31.436
<v Speaker 4>At one point and came back in and knew we

0:48:31.436 --> 0:48:34.196
<v Speaker 4>were We had been like cruising through Apple Music on

0:48:34.236 --> 0:48:36.516
<v Speaker 4>the Apple TV, which is how crazy it is that

0:48:36.596 --> 0:48:40.036
<v Speaker 4>he can use remotes and stuff. But I left to

0:48:40.076 --> 0:48:42.916
<v Speaker 4>use the bathroom song. I came back and he's got uh,

0:48:43.356 --> 0:48:46.956
<v Speaker 4>some Egyptian pop song on called Bumbum that he's just

0:48:47.116 --> 0:48:51.236
<v Speaker 4>dancing and he's that. He insisted that I added to

0:48:51.276 --> 0:48:53.556
<v Speaker 4>his playlist right then, and it is like that's another

0:48:53.596 --> 0:48:55.756
<v Speaker 4>thing in heavy rotation that he discovered entire time.

0:48:56.636 --> 0:48:57.116
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know.

0:48:57.396 --> 0:48:59.076
<v Speaker 3>I had to go look up what it was about.

0:48:59.076 --> 0:49:00.876
<v Speaker 4>It turns out it's like about a guy who like

0:49:00.956 --> 0:49:04.956
<v Speaker 4>accidentally gets drunk uh when he's out with his friends

0:49:04.996 --> 0:49:06.476
<v Speaker 4>and like the hilarity that ensues.

0:49:06.516 --> 0:49:07.796
<v Speaker 3>It's kind of like a novelty song.

0:49:07.916 --> 0:49:08.036
<v Speaker 2>Ah.

0:49:08.116 --> 0:49:11.756
<v Speaker 4>This dude Muhammed was apparently like a that's which sounded

0:49:11.756 --> 0:49:13.396
<v Speaker 4>fake to me, But that's because I don't know nothing.

0:49:14.036 --> 0:49:17.556
<v Speaker 4>Uh uh apparently like a very big star and.

0:49:21.956 --> 0:49:23.316
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, so that stuff's crazy.

0:49:23.356 --> 0:49:26.956
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, him that that thing about them already being

0:49:26.956 --> 0:49:27.636
<v Speaker 4>their own people.

0:49:28.636 --> 0:49:32.316
<v Speaker 3>I think I was surprised initially.

0:49:32.316 --> 0:49:34.836
<v Speaker 4>This has calmed down somewhat now, but by how much

0:49:34.836 --> 0:49:38.396
<v Speaker 4>anxiety I had, uh right when he was very small.

0:49:39.636 --> 0:49:44.076
<v Speaker 4>The pregnancy too, Yeah, I was having I thought I

0:49:44.156 --> 0:49:45.956
<v Speaker 4>was sick, Like I was in the at the doctor

0:49:45.996 --> 0:49:47.036
<v Speaker 4>all the time, and it was like I think you

0:49:47.036 --> 0:49:47.556
<v Speaker 4>should try.

0:49:48.756 --> 0:49:51.636
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, just like anxiety if I'm about to be

0:49:51.636 --> 0:49:51.956
<v Speaker 1>a dad.

0:49:52.076 --> 0:49:54.356
<v Speaker 4>I wore one of them seven day heart monitors, you know, say,

0:49:54.356 --> 0:49:56.596
<v Speaker 4>like I was really, I was like, there's something wrong

0:49:56.676 --> 0:49:59.756
<v Speaker 4>with me and I wanted to be a dad. It

0:49:59.836 --> 0:50:03.796
<v Speaker 4>was just it was like this incredible amount of fear.

0:50:06.636 --> 0:50:10.836
<v Speaker 4>And then when he was small too, just that this

0:50:10.916 --> 0:50:13.436
<v Speaker 4>is the not knowing if you're doing anything right and

0:50:13.596 --> 0:50:17.316
<v Speaker 4>what does that even mean? And like the whole you know, yeah, really,

0:50:17.516 --> 0:50:21.676
<v Speaker 4>I there's a person who hasn't. I'm a pretty nervous person,

0:50:21.676 --> 0:50:23.396
<v Speaker 4>but I don't think of myself as an anxious person.

0:50:23.476 --> 0:50:27.396
<v Speaker 4>I haven't had a ton of anxiety in my life,

0:50:27.556 --> 0:50:31.356
<v Speaker 4>but that the last couple of years, I've been like, yeah,

0:50:31.556 --> 0:50:33.116
<v Speaker 4>more stressed that I ever.

0:50:33.476 --> 0:50:35.276
<v Speaker 2>Have you figured out what it's connected to exactly? I

0:50:35.316 --> 0:50:37.636
<v Speaker 2>mean as a dad, I don't. I don't need to

0:50:37.676 --> 0:50:39.556
<v Speaker 2>be like why would you be anxious? But I get

0:50:39.636 --> 0:50:41.956
<v Speaker 2>but have you sort of figured out what it is.

0:50:41.956 --> 0:50:44.036
<v Speaker 1>Or where it's coming from I think it was just.

0:50:45.676 --> 0:50:53.116
<v Speaker 4>I, you know, really loving somebody very deeply is anxiety

0:50:53.116 --> 0:50:58.396
<v Speaker 4>inducing in some ways, and that like I can't control everything.

0:50:58.396 --> 0:51:00.956
<v Speaker 4>I can't make everything good for them, you know, And

0:51:01.036 --> 0:51:05.716
<v Speaker 4>I am so mostly I think at peace with like

0:51:05.756 --> 0:51:07.836
<v Speaker 4>the that not everything's going to be good for me,

0:51:08.516 --> 0:51:08.836
<v Speaker 4>you know.

0:51:08.916 --> 0:51:12.236
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, you know, yeah, but you can't. You can't

0:51:12.276 --> 0:51:13.716
<v Speaker 2>wrap your head around mine. Everything's gonna be.

0:51:13.676 --> 0:51:14.676
<v Speaker 1>Good for him. Yeah.

0:51:14.676 --> 0:51:16.676
<v Speaker 4>And then with a kid like I had never I've

0:51:16.716 --> 0:51:19.076
<v Speaker 4>never loved anybody that much, Like that was wild.

0:51:19.276 --> 0:51:20.636
<v Speaker 3>So this this thing of.

0:51:20.596 --> 0:51:24.396
<v Speaker 4>Being like, oh, I only want good things for you

0:51:24.436 --> 0:51:27.676
<v Speaker 4>and that's impossible, and I I just like that really

0:51:27.716 --> 0:51:30.716
<v Speaker 4>stresses me out. And I think I also had a

0:51:31.716 --> 0:51:34.356
<v Speaker 4>I had a great childhood in a very hard situation,

0:51:34.516 --> 0:51:37.316
<v Speaker 4>you know, saying in hindsight, like we were poor, we

0:51:37.316 --> 0:51:39.156
<v Speaker 4>were East Oakland, we were you know, like it was

0:51:39.196 --> 0:51:43.356
<v Speaker 4>a lot against us. And I was so happy and

0:51:43.476 --> 0:51:49.836
<v Speaker 4>like I had so much fun and we have everything relatively,

0:51:49.996 --> 0:51:53.556
<v Speaker 4>and I am so worried about his happiness all the time,

0:51:53.636 --> 0:51:55.756
<v Speaker 4>you know, I'm just like, oh, is this what you

0:51:55.836 --> 0:51:56.236
<v Speaker 4>want to do?

0:51:56.316 --> 0:51:58.516
<v Speaker 3>And I like and am I around enough?

0:51:58.556 --> 0:52:01.036
<v Speaker 4>Which I'm really worth of being around That's the one

0:52:01.076 --> 0:52:02.716
<v Speaker 4>thing I know is that both my parents were they

0:52:02.756 --> 0:52:05.276
<v Speaker 4>were there. They weren't together, they were both very present,

0:52:05.396 --> 0:52:07.876
<v Speaker 4>you know. So that's the one thing I try to

0:52:07.916 --> 0:52:11.756
<v Speaker 4>control as much as I can. That just that he's

0:52:11.796 --> 0:52:13.716
<v Speaker 4>about to start preschool, Are we choosing the right I

0:52:13.716 --> 0:52:18.796
<v Speaker 4>don't know, like what and it's preschool. We could change

0:52:18.836 --> 0:52:21.276
<v Speaker 4>it if he doesn't like it, go somewhere else, like where.

0:52:21.316 --> 0:52:24.076
<v Speaker 4>It feels like such a stressful decision right now.

0:52:24.676 --> 0:52:28.836
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:52:43.396 --> 0:52:46.316
<v Speaker 2>We live in a time where the algorithm once it knows,

0:52:46.316 --> 0:52:47.916
<v Speaker 2>oh you and your dad, let me send you some

0:52:47.956 --> 0:52:49.156
<v Speaker 2>things to be anxious about you and.

0:52:49.516 --> 0:52:51.396
<v Speaker 3>Get the hell off. Yeah, barely.

0:52:52.276 --> 0:52:54.076
<v Speaker 4>When I have to promote something, I tapped back in

0:52:54.196 --> 0:52:55.476
<v Speaker 4>but mostly off that.

0:52:55.876 --> 0:52:57.396
<v Speaker 2>But I think there's just the idea that there's also

0:52:57.436 --> 0:53:00.396
<v Speaker 2>just so much more information to make you feel anxious

0:53:00.956 --> 0:53:04.116
<v Speaker 2>and and that before when our parents were around, they

0:53:04.156 --> 0:53:05.556
<v Speaker 2>just had to sort of you know, there's that one

0:53:05.596 --> 0:53:07.756
<v Speaker 2>doctor's bock book, but other than that, it was just

0:53:07.796 --> 0:53:11.396
<v Speaker 2>like just like figure it out, whereas now there's like,

0:53:11.516 --> 0:53:13.956
<v Speaker 2>oh it's a book. Here's a book for kids who

0:53:13.956 --> 0:53:15.476
<v Speaker 2>are one month and three days old, you know what

0:53:15.516 --> 0:53:18.436
<v Speaker 2>I mean. So like there's just a lot more information

0:53:18.476 --> 0:53:20.756
<v Speaker 2>that wants to make you anxious. But and I understand that,

0:53:20.836 --> 0:53:23.396
<v Speaker 2>Like and I as a dad who travels a lot,

0:53:23.516 --> 0:53:26.076
<v Speaker 2>and as a dad who if I talk about work,

0:53:26.156 --> 0:53:27.476
<v Speaker 2>my kids sort of have that moment.

0:53:27.436 --> 0:53:28.796
<v Speaker 1>Like are you about to leave? You know what I mean.

0:53:28.836 --> 0:53:31.236
<v Speaker 2>But it's just like often I'm and I don't travel

0:53:31.236 --> 0:53:33.156
<v Speaker 2>as much as I used to, but like even coming

0:53:33.196 --> 0:53:35.516
<v Speaker 2>down here, I have to go. I'm two sleeps. I'll

0:53:35.516 --> 0:53:37.636
<v Speaker 2>be gone for two sleeps. You have to describing things

0:53:37.636 --> 0:53:39.916
<v Speaker 2>and sleep. So I feel like it helps, like.

0:53:39.796 --> 0:53:42.596
<v Speaker 3>It changed everything so immediately.

0:53:43.676 --> 0:53:48.756
<v Speaker 4>And all for like, I love my life right now.

0:53:48.756 --> 0:53:51.516
<v Speaker 4>It's so great, but it was, it is. It's a bit.

0:53:51.596 --> 0:53:52.476
<v Speaker 4>It's a big.

0:53:52.276 --> 0:53:55.396
<v Speaker 3>Change, you know. So yeah, and it's great.

0:53:55.516 --> 0:53:57.356
<v Speaker 2>It makes me when you're on the road, you're always

0:53:57.476 --> 0:53:59.156
<v Speaker 2>like you said, it's like, oh, I'm glad to be

0:53:59.196 --> 0:54:02.916
<v Speaker 2>here after the show's gore the air for yeah, get

0:54:02.996 --> 0:54:03.596
<v Speaker 2>how to get home?

0:54:03.636 --> 0:54:04.996
<v Speaker 3>How do I get home from here?

0:54:05.196 --> 0:54:05.396
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:54:05.396 --> 0:54:07.596
<v Speaker 2>This is like I'm I'm like, oh, this will wrap

0:54:07.676 --> 0:54:09.556
<v Speaker 2>up soon. I mean I have at nine o'clock, but

0:54:09.596 --> 0:54:11.036
<v Speaker 2>I can just go straight to the airport, you know,

0:54:11.436 --> 0:54:13.756
<v Speaker 2>you know. I like the idea of like all all.

0:54:13.676 --> 0:54:15.756
<v Speaker 4>Three of us in clipping now have young children and

0:54:15.836 --> 0:54:18.676
<v Speaker 4>like that. Jonathan described it really well one time. It's

0:54:18.756 --> 0:54:20.396
<v Speaker 4>just like, yeah, I love playing shows.

0:54:20.476 --> 0:54:22.756
<v Speaker 3>I love it. Nothing's better than hanging out with my daughter.

0:54:22.756 --> 0:54:25.636
<v Speaker 4>Though there's another I would of course rather be doing

0:54:25.676 --> 0:54:28.396
<v Speaker 4>that than anything else. So it doesn't really matter how

0:54:28.476 --> 0:54:28.996
<v Speaker 4>much I love this.

0:54:29.236 --> 0:54:30.556
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I love that more.

0:54:30.636 --> 0:54:33.236
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Just unfortunately I can't figure out how hanging off

0:54:33.276 --> 0:54:34.916
<v Speaker 1>my daughter will pay. Yeah.

0:54:34.756 --> 0:54:37.756
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean you can't say come to the show, yeah,

0:54:38.116 --> 0:54:39.636
<v Speaker 2>or you do like a family channel where you just

0:54:39.876 --> 0:54:41.036
<v Speaker 2>put your family on the internet.

0:54:41.596 --> 0:54:42.796
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I can't do that.

0:54:42.876 --> 0:54:43.716
<v Speaker 1>No, I can't do it either.

0:54:43.716 --> 0:54:46.396
<v Speaker 3>I can't do wish that for him. He is very cute.

0:54:46.396 --> 0:54:50.036
<v Speaker 1>Though you look at your kid like, man, you could be.

0:54:50.356 --> 0:54:52.156
<v Speaker 3>You could really make some money, kid, I.

0:54:52.556 --> 0:54:55.356
<v Speaker 1>Talk, I be your manager, We can really be out there.

0:54:56.076 --> 0:54:59.796
<v Speaker 3>That has occurred to me. Yeah, but I think he's

0:54:59.916 --> 0:55:02.036
<v Speaker 3>he's pretty introverted like me. I don't think you would

0:55:02.036 --> 0:55:02.676
<v Speaker 3>love it, so.

0:55:02.996 --> 0:55:05.516
<v Speaker 2>For sure, for sure. Before we get out of here,

0:55:05.516 --> 0:55:08.876
<v Speaker 2>a couple more things. Uh So, I moved to the

0:55:08.916 --> 0:55:11.436
<v Speaker 2>band in ninety seven, and I was really moving to

0:55:11.476 --> 0:55:13.156
<v Speaker 2>be a part of the San Franco comedy scene. But

0:55:13.196 --> 0:55:15.836
<v Speaker 2>I found an apartment in Oakland. So that's how I

0:55:15.916 --> 0:55:18.276
<v Speaker 2>ended up in Oakland. I lived in the city, but

0:55:18.316 --> 0:55:19.916
<v Speaker 2>I was even for a while, but I was always

0:55:19.996 --> 0:55:21.636
<v Speaker 2>in Oakland because I met Melissa. She was in the

0:55:21.636 --> 0:55:23.636
<v Speaker 2>East Bay, and I worked and had a day job

0:55:23.716 --> 0:55:25.836
<v Speaker 2>in Berkeley, and so it was like I was.

0:55:25.796 --> 0:55:27.476
<v Speaker 1>Like, again, it's sliding door things.

0:55:27.476 --> 0:55:29.796
<v Speaker 2>If I found an apartment in San Francisco, maybe I'm

0:55:29.836 --> 0:55:33.716
<v Speaker 2>a different my life's different, but I'm so like and

0:55:33.756 --> 0:55:36.036
<v Speaker 2>I've only learned more as i've sort of been in Oakland.

0:55:36.116 --> 0:55:37.916
<v Speaker 2>And we moved back to the Bay in twenty fourteen,

0:55:37.956 --> 0:55:41.556
<v Speaker 2>right apart met you, and my one oldest doughter was

0:55:41.596 --> 0:55:42.316
<v Speaker 2>born in San Francisco.

0:55:42.356 --> 0:55:43.956
<v Speaker 1>By the two kids were born in the East Bay.

0:55:44.876 --> 0:55:47.716
<v Speaker 2>But so there's just this real sense of like my

0:55:47.836 --> 0:55:49.276
<v Speaker 2>kids are growing up with this idea of like we

0:55:49.316 --> 0:55:52.396
<v Speaker 2>are from Oakland or we are from the East Bay.

0:55:52.596 --> 0:55:55.676
<v Speaker 2>Can you talk about for people from the outside, Because

0:55:55.676 --> 0:55:57.996
<v Speaker 2>there's a thing and I heard you, we've talked about

0:55:58.036 --> 0:56:00.196
<v Speaker 2>you've talked about before, like that you told me when

0:56:00.196 --> 0:56:03.236
<v Speaker 2>you were doing a blind spotting that like you had

0:56:03.236 --> 0:56:05.396
<v Speaker 2>to explain to the to the costume people, no people

0:56:05.396 --> 0:56:06.916
<v Speaker 2>from Oakland were things that say Oakland on.

0:56:07.076 --> 0:56:11.476
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not it's not weird. It's not the only

0:56:11.476 --> 0:56:12.996
<v Speaker 1>tourists do conversation.

0:56:13.156 --> 0:56:16.756
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, no, actually we do wear It's not like everybody

0:56:16.796 --> 0:56:20.476
<v Speaker 4>can just be wearing shirts to wrep the city. Yeah,

0:56:20.756 --> 0:56:23.156
<v Speaker 4>they kind of go walk around for a second.

0:56:22.836 --> 0:56:26.276
<v Speaker 1>You know, I can. Yeah, So can you just explain

0:56:26.436 --> 0:56:27.516
<v Speaker 1>what that is? Why?

0:56:27.676 --> 0:56:29.876
<v Speaker 2>What is the secret sauce there? Because you know, a

0:56:29.916 --> 0:56:31.956
<v Speaker 2>lot of people love their hometown, but you've traveled all

0:56:31.956 --> 0:56:33.676
<v Speaker 2>over the world, so you've seen other places.

0:56:33.916 --> 0:56:34.676
<v Speaker 1>What is it about?

0:56:34.916 --> 0:56:36.476
<v Speaker 2>And I feel like there's also part of the conversation

0:56:36.556 --> 0:56:39.476
<v Speaker 2>that I also want to have East Bay versus Oakland.

0:56:40.196 --> 0:56:41.516
<v Speaker 3>That's interesting, like like you.

0:56:41.476 --> 0:56:43.436
<v Speaker 2>Also went to school in Berkeley, right, Yeah, so there's

0:56:43.476 --> 0:56:46.156
<v Speaker 2>also the Berkeley thing versus Oakland.

0:56:46.556 --> 0:56:48.556
<v Speaker 1>And I find myself in times like trying to figure

0:56:48.556 --> 0:56:50.476
<v Speaker 1>out I live in Oakland.

0:56:50.516 --> 0:56:52.356
<v Speaker 2>I love Oakland, but also I love the greater East

0:56:52.396 --> 0:56:54.316
<v Speaker 2>Bay and also I did live in Berkeley, you know.

0:56:54.396 --> 0:56:56.116
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not mad, you know, and I'm not trying to,

0:56:56.276 --> 0:56:58.596
<v Speaker 2>but just but there is a there's all these different

0:56:58.596 --> 0:57:01.676
<v Speaker 2>ways to describe this place and to name this place.

0:57:01.916 --> 0:57:09.356
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there.

0:57:08.276 --> 0:57:10.476
<v Speaker 1>A lot. Yeah, and it is inside baseball. But I

0:57:10.516 --> 0:57:11.596
<v Speaker 1>sort of feel like there's.

0:57:11.436 --> 0:57:14.076
<v Speaker 3>No more baseball. But that's not true. I mean the.

0:57:14.956 --> 0:57:17.276
<v Speaker 1>Balls, dollars, yeah, the ballers, the boers.

0:57:17.796 --> 0:57:20.556
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, so like I just feel like you are

0:57:20.596 --> 0:57:23.276
<v Speaker 2>from that place, so you and I feel sometimes I've

0:57:23.276 --> 0:57:26.996
<v Speaker 2>gotten to the place where I'm really careful with my language,

0:57:27.396 --> 0:57:30.276
<v Speaker 2>like because I know that sometimes people from Oakland are like, hey, come,

0:57:30.316 --> 0:57:32.636
<v Speaker 2>I'll slow the down, you know what I mean, Like,

0:57:32.716 --> 0:57:35.076
<v Speaker 2>you're not you didn't go to high school here, so

0:57:35.196 --> 0:57:35.796
<v Speaker 2>settle down.

0:57:35.996 --> 0:57:37.876
<v Speaker 1>So I'm like, okay, so you know, okay, I'll set

0:57:37.916 --> 0:57:38.556
<v Speaker 1>it out a little bit.

0:57:38.516 --> 0:57:39.916
<v Speaker 3>You know, but you I don't know, you've been there

0:57:39.916 --> 0:57:41.996
<v Speaker 3>off a long time. But but yeah.

0:57:41.916 --> 0:57:44.076
<v Speaker 1>As a as you're like, you're I've been here long,

0:57:44.156 --> 0:57:44.676
<v Speaker 1>You've been alive.

0:57:44.716 --> 0:57:52.916
<v Speaker 4>But okay, I think this is this feels like it's

0:57:53.116 --> 0:57:56.516
<v Speaker 4>I'm speaking from a particular perspective of my age. Also

0:57:56.596 --> 0:57:58.436
<v Speaker 4>that should be madeware. So like, I don't know how

0:57:58.436 --> 0:58:02.716
<v Speaker 4>this applies to people younger than me, but it used

0:58:02.756 --> 0:58:04.716
<v Speaker 4>to be and this is still to a degree true.

0:58:06.116 --> 0:58:09.436
<v Speaker 4>When you tell people you're from California, it's either La

0:58:09.556 --> 0:58:12.036
<v Speaker 4>or San Francisco, right, Like those are the two things that.

0:58:11.996 --> 0:58:14.196
<v Speaker 1>People know yeah, sure.

0:58:16.236 --> 0:58:19.556
<v Speaker 4>So part of being from the East Bay was about

0:58:19.876 --> 0:58:22.676
<v Speaker 4>differentiating from that. It was hard line about we are

0:58:22.796 --> 0:58:26.756
<v Speaker 4>not San Francisco, and you know because you're there, like

0:58:26.796 --> 0:58:31.476
<v Speaker 4>culturally they are very different experiences. But also like yeah,

0:58:31.596 --> 0:58:35.636
<v Speaker 4>we just hated that thing, like that's not who we are,

0:58:35.676 --> 0:58:37.596
<v Speaker 4>Like we're we're over here and we're own thing.

0:58:37.676 --> 0:58:38.556
<v Speaker 3>We're either it's.

0:58:38.436 --> 0:58:40.796
<v Speaker 2>Sort of analogous to the Brooklyn Queens thing, but like.

0:58:42.356 --> 0:58:45.596
<v Speaker 1>The cities, different cultures and differsonality.

0:58:45.436 --> 0:58:46.796
<v Speaker 3>Functions the same way sort of.

0:58:48.276 --> 0:58:52.636
<v Speaker 4>And so there's that Oakland being kind of like the

0:58:52.676 --> 0:58:56.036
<v Speaker 4>biggest East Bay city, like the kind of hub that

0:58:56.196 --> 0:58:58.676
<v Speaker 4>also became kind of a catch all for East Bay, right,

0:58:58.836 --> 0:59:02.796
<v Speaker 4>And so there'd be again like if you're away, you

0:59:02.836 --> 0:59:04.996
<v Speaker 4>could tell people from San Franciso.

0:59:04.636 --> 0:59:07.716
<v Speaker 3>No from Oakland, then you'll just match just across the bridge. Whatever.

0:59:08.436 --> 0:59:11.596
<v Speaker 4>If you start saying saying if you start saying things

0:59:11.636 --> 0:59:15.996
<v Speaker 4>like Hayward or San Leandro or whatever else, Rito, Albany

0:59:16.076 --> 0:59:18.956
<v Speaker 4>where I lived, like all of it, you know, Richmond,

0:59:19.076 --> 0:59:22.636
<v Speaker 4>all these other things, people, it got so granular that

0:59:22.676 --> 0:59:26.676
<v Speaker 4>people couldn't take it. So there was also this generalization happening,

0:59:26.756 --> 0:59:29.196
<v Speaker 4>and for people who are really from Oakland used to

0:59:29.236 --> 0:59:31.956
<v Speaker 4>be like you got used to being like people say,

0:59:31.956 --> 0:59:35.596
<v Speaker 4>I'm from Oakland, Oh where we'll part you from, you know,

0:59:35.916 --> 0:59:36.756
<v Speaker 4>or I'm from there too.

0:59:36.876 --> 0:59:40.196
<v Speaker 3>Oh well I'm from Piedmont, you know.

0:59:40.156 --> 0:59:42.276
<v Speaker 4>Which is actually like part of Oakland but you don't

0:59:42.276 --> 0:59:46.436
<v Speaker 4>want to you know, or you know, was like a suburb,

0:59:46.596 --> 0:59:50.236
<v Speaker 4>or you know, I'm from Hayward people. Yeah, so there

0:59:50.676 --> 0:59:53.556
<v Speaker 4>there's this this other kind of like Oakland chauvinism, because

0:59:53.556 --> 0:59:56.596
<v Speaker 4>Oakland feels special because it like was the hub.

0:59:57.036 --> 0:59:59.596
<v Speaker 3>It was like it had the the.

1:00:01.236 --> 1:00:05.956
<v Speaker 4>It was a historically was like a rougher area, you know,

1:00:06.116 --> 1:00:09.676
<v Speaker 4>although I don't know, we were all scared of Richmond.

1:00:10.476 --> 1:00:15.036
<v Speaker 3>But so yeah, so there was there was that too.

1:00:16.276 --> 1:00:17.836
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, there was like a badge of honor with

1:00:17.916 --> 1:00:20.916
<v Speaker 4>being from Oakland, from this like home of the Black

1:00:20.956 --> 1:00:24.876
<v Speaker 4>Panther Party, this like real like sort of important like cultural,

1:00:25.356 --> 1:00:29.716
<v Speaker 4>culturally relevant thing. And so I always I was born

1:00:29.756 --> 1:00:32.156
<v Speaker 4>in Oakland, and my dad always lived in Oakland, and

1:00:32.196 --> 1:00:34.596
<v Speaker 4>my mom then kept moving further and further north. So

1:00:34.676 --> 1:00:36.396
<v Speaker 4>I was, as a person who was kind of out

1:00:36.396 --> 1:00:40.036
<v Speaker 4>of place anyway, would always just claim Oakland because I

1:00:40.156 --> 1:00:43.636
<v Speaker 4>was always living there. And then when I moved back home,

1:00:43.676 --> 1:00:46.036
<v Speaker 4>I moved to Oakland, so you know, I've always felt

1:00:46.116 --> 1:00:49.356
<v Speaker 4>like that was my home. But I also, like my

1:00:49.436 --> 1:00:51.556
<v Speaker 4>mom lived in Albany, and I would never claim that,

1:00:51.676 --> 1:00:53.356
<v Speaker 4>like that's crazy. You don't want to say that in

1:00:53.436 --> 1:00:59.196
<v Speaker 4>public Like already is a very like well off small

1:00:59.316 --> 1:01:02.756
<v Speaker 4>suburb with great public schools and where the most of

1:01:02.796 --> 1:01:07.876
<v Speaker 4>the population, at least at the time were families of

1:01:08.476 --> 1:01:11.916
<v Speaker 4>professors or my mom's case, they had one student housing

1:01:11.956 --> 1:01:14.636
<v Speaker 4>complex down by the train tracks called the University Village

1:01:14.676 --> 1:01:17.996
<v Speaker 4>where like graduate students with families could could live. And

1:01:18.036 --> 1:01:19.676
<v Speaker 4>so my mom had gone back to school after my

1:01:19.756 --> 1:01:23.316
<v Speaker 4>brother was born, and so she moved to the to

1:01:23.396 --> 1:01:26.196
<v Speaker 4>the village, which is really desirable because again, like great

1:01:26.196 --> 1:01:28.036
<v Speaker 4>public schools in Albany. So if you're gonna send it

1:01:28.116 --> 1:01:30.596
<v Speaker 4>the thing, I understand so much more now than I

1:01:30.676 --> 1:01:32.476
<v Speaker 4>did at the time. But like we had just saiducated

1:01:32.476 --> 1:01:35.156
<v Speaker 4>in public school, you could live in Albany, then there

1:01:35.196 --> 1:01:35.476
<v Speaker 4>you go.

1:01:36.996 --> 1:01:37.356
<v Speaker 3>And so.

1:01:39.316 --> 1:01:43.716
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so there there's always this kind of like division

1:01:43.796 --> 1:01:46.076
<v Speaker 4>and explanation and like where are you really from and

1:01:46.116 --> 1:01:48.636
<v Speaker 4>all this stuff, But yeah, a lot of it, at

1:01:48.716 --> 1:01:54.076
<v Speaker 4>least when we were young, was about being able to

1:01:54.116 --> 1:01:58.276
<v Speaker 4>claim something that felt tough, you know, both because like

1:01:58.316 --> 1:01:59.836
<v Speaker 4>it's cool because you're a young man and you want

1:01:59.876 --> 1:02:02.276
<v Speaker 4>to feel tough, and also because like there's a certain

1:02:02.356 --> 1:02:05.156
<v Speaker 4>kind of safety with having people be a little bit

1:02:05.236 --> 1:02:09.436
<v Speaker 4>afraid of you for no good reason, right, like for

1:02:09.436 --> 1:02:11.476
<v Speaker 4>someone like me, you know, who's not a scary person

1:02:12.636 --> 1:02:14.436
<v Speaker 4>to lead with something that's a little bit like.

1:02:14.516 --> 1:02:17.116
<v Speaker 3>Oh and like that.

1:02:17.276 --> 1:02:19.876
<v Speaker 4>There's another great thing about Oakland is that like there's

1:02:19.916 --> 1:02:22.436
<v Speaker 4>a kind of danger associated with it, even though like

1:02:22.476 --> 1:02:24.516
<v Speaker 4>a lot of us are very artsy, like, even though

1:02:24.516 --> 1:02:28.116
<v Speaker 4>it's a sort of and it's you know, you get

1:02:28.156 --> 1:02:32.316
<v Speaker 4>your you get your like kumbaya, you're sort of hippiasthetic

1:02:32.396 --> 1:02:34.476
<v Speaker 4>mixed right in with all your gangsterism and stuff. So

1:02:34.876 --> 1:02:38.676
<v Speaker 4>it's and it was, so it's very useful to be

1:02:38.676 --> 1:02:41.076
<v Speaker 4>able to come from a place that is that mixture,

1:02:41.116 --> 1:02:44.396
<v Speaker 4>you know, where I got the hard part for Free

1:02:45.196 --> 1:02:50.156
<v Speaker 4>God having to actually portray any of it. And so yeah,

1:02:50.236 --> 1:02:52.716
<v Speaker 4>that's what I think about it for me. But it

1:02:52.796 --> 1:02:57.316
<v Speaker 4>is like sort of the rich cultural history, the history

1:02:57.316 --> 1:03:00.876
<v Speaker 4>of protests, the intellectual.

1:03:00.276 --> 1:03:03.636
<v Speaker 3>History of Oakland, you know, and it.

1:03:03.716 --> 1:03:06.116
<v Speaker 4>Is all there, and it is all there actually in

1:03:06.116 --> 1:03:09.876
<v Speaker 4>the Holy Spade. But the neighborhoods field different. But like

1:03:10.756 --> 1:03:12.516
<v Speaker 4>you know, I can go home and talk to people

1:03:12.556 --> 1:03:14.716
<v Speaker 4>about books. I can't really talk to people in La

1:03:14.756 --> 1:03:15.436
<v Speaker 4>about books.

1:03:15.476 --> 1:03:16.916
<v Speaker 3>Really.

1:03:19.476 --> 1:03:26.636
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, it's so it's that there is something different there, and.

1:03:28.596 --> 1:03:31.956
<v Speaker 3>Especially for artists, but kind of for everybody. There's a.

1:03:33.596 --> 1:03:36.316
<v Speaker 4>I think if you're from there, there's a there's an

1:03:36.396 --> 1:03:39.076
<v Speaker 4>understanding that like it is special, and a lot of

1:03:39.156 --> 1:03:40.556
<v Speaker 4>us end up fighting to.

1:03:40.396 --> 1:03:43.276
<v Speaker 3>Keep it that way or to figure out how to keep.

1:03:43.156 --> 1:03:46.556
<v Speaker 4>It that way and to figure out how to be

1:03:46.676 --> 1:03:49.316
<v Speaker 4>able to survive and live there and make better livings there,

1:03:49.356 --> 1:03:51.316
<v Speaker 4>and you know, you're still living there, so like this

1:03:51.396 --> 1:03:53.316
<v Speaker 4>is a this is weird, like really part of that

1:03:53.396 --> 1:03:56.396
<v Speaker 4>it's like how to you know, how can we grow

1:03:56.436 --> 1:03:58.236
<v Speaker 4>this here instead of having to leave so much to

1:03:58.716 --> 1:04:03.596
<v Speaker 4>figure this out and so and often at odds with

1:04:03.836 --> 1:04:08.836
<v Speaker 4>our elected officials or you know, like there's often not

1:04:08.876 --> 1:04:12.876
<v Speaker 4>a lot of help. But because I think historically that

1:04:12.996 --> 1:04:16.316
<v Speaker 4>is also true, like the way community works there is

1:04:16.356 --> 1:04:18.196
<v Speaker 4>different than it is in a lot of places.

1:04:18.476 --> 1:04:19.156
<v Speaker 3>Certainly that it.

1:04:19.156 --> 1:04:23.036
<v Speaker 4>Is here, you know, which geographically is very different. There

1:04:23.036 --> 1:04:24.076
<v Speaker 4>are all sorts of reasons for that.

1:04:24.156 --> 1:04:29.956
<v Speaker 2>But but yeah, La was northern was that area. It

1:04:29.996 --> 1:04:32.156
<v Speaker 2>would be like nine different cities, like it would not

1:04:32.236 --> 1:04:33.236
<v Speaker 2>be just Los Angeles.

1:04:33.356 --> 1:04:37.076
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, so we you know, there's a.

1:04:38.516 --> 1:04:41.076
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there's a kind of community there that like does

1:04:41.236 --> 1:04:44.836
<v Speaker 4>feel different. And I think when you're from there, you've

1:04:44.876 --> 1:04:46.956
<v Speaker 4>lived there a long time, there is this sort of

1:04:47.436 --> 1:04:50.556
<v Speaker 4>uh drive and desire to continue to give back to

1:04:50.596 --> 1:04:52.996
<v Speaker 4>it and continue to figure out how to.

1:04:52.876 --> 1:04:55.156
<v Speaker 3>Make it a better place, because we all love it.

1:04:55.156 --> 1:04:55.836
<v Speaker 1>So much.

1:04:57.476 --> 1:05:00.716
<v Speaker 4>And even when we're not there, like we want it

1:05:00.836 --> 1:05:04.836
<v Speaker 4>to thrive. Like the so much of my identity is

1:05:04.876 --> 1:05:07.716
<v Speaker 4>about being from Oakland and being from.

1:05:07.596 --> 1:05:09.036
<v Speaker 3>The East Bay in general, and so like.

1:05:11.116 --> 1:05:16.436
<v Speaker 4>As that changes, I feel it is like shake, it shakes.

1:05:16.156 --> 1:05:20.356
<v Speaker 3>Some things for me. You know, there were.

1:05:22.236 --> 1:05:24.916
<v Speaker 4>Yes, but people could you know, families that I knew

1:05:24.956 --> 1:05:26.716
<v Speaker 4>can't live there anymore, all that stuff, like all these

1:05:26.996 --> 1:05:28.876
<v Speaker 4>just home the things that you called home, And that

1:05:29.076 --> 1:05:32.276
<v Speaker 4>happens for everybody everywhere. But I think us or for me,

1:05:32.876 --> 1:05:34.996
<v Speaker 4>loving that place so much, like it takes on like

1:05:35.076 --> 1:05:38.756
<v Speaker 4>more of a Sometimes you feel like your foundation gets

1:05:38.756 --> 1:05:42.276
<v Speaker 4>shaky when I don't know if the a's leave heard

1:05:42.356 --> 1:05:47.076
<v Speaker 4>something you know, like or whatever, or the or the

1:05:47.116 --> 1:05:51.436
<v Speaker 4>warriors leading a sign I'm not still It's like that's

1:05:51.556 --> 1:05:53.996
<v Speaker 4>what a yeah, a slap.

1:05:53.596 --> 1:05:56.556
<v Speaker 3>In the face. You were on the better side.

1:05:56.916 --> 1:05:58.916
<v Speaker 2>You want some championships and the services like, oh we'd

1:05:58.956 --> 1:06:00.836
<v Speaker 2>like that team now, yeah, bring back over here.

1:06:00.916 --> 1:06:02.116
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah.

1:06:02.156 --> 1:06:05.316
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it's just the sort of connected to

1:06:05.356 --> 1:06:09.956
<v Speaker 2>all this is there's not every city has an activist culture,

1:06:10.476 --> 1:06:13.556
<v Speaker 2>but I don't know that every city demands that all

1:06:13.596 --> 1:06:15.716
<v Speaker 2>of its people sort of be engaged in the activist

1:06:15.756 --> 1:06:18.436
<v Speaker 2>culture of the way that Oakland does. And Berkeley is

1:06:18.476 --> 1:06:20.356
<v Speaker 2>part of this too with the free speech movement and everything.

1:06:20.476 --> 1:06:23.156
<v Speaker 2>But the idea that like talk about, because you could

1:06:23.156 --> 1:06:26.556
<v Speaker 2>be doing everything you're doing and not be regularly engaging

1:06:26.596 --> 1:06:29.036
<v Speaker 2>in activism, right, you could just be like, I'm working,

1:06:29.236 --> 1:06:32.556
<v Speaker 2>I'm a good representative of my city, but you are

1:06:32.596 --> 1:06:37.076
<v Speaker 2>also regularly sort of like speaking out and saying things

1:06:37.116 --> 1:06:40.196
<v Speaker 2>and supporting things someone regularly. Yeah, yeah, I mean I

1:06:40.236 --> 1:06:42.756
<v Speaker 2>see you know, yeah, I'll say regularly.

1:06:42.956 --> 1:06:46.876
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, more than most. All right again, more flowers,

1:06:46.916 --> 1:06:47.276
<v Speaker 1>thank you?

1:06:47.316 --> 1:06:47.556
<v Speaker 2>Sorry?

1:06:47.596 --> 1:06:50.596
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah. Here's the thing. When people call on you,

1:06:50.596 --> 1:06:51.556
<v Speaker 1>you do answer the call.

1:06:52.036 --> 1:06:54.316
<v Speaker 2>It's not like you're not like, sorry, I've got a

1:06:54.316 --> 1:06:56.836
<v Speaker 2>big movie coming out. I can't really be out here

1:06:57.356 --> 1:06:59.876
<v Speaker 2>looking like I care about these care about humans.

1:06:59.956 --> 1:07:02.796
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so why do you answer the call?

1:07:03.716 --> 1:07:05.756
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean I think it was how we grew up,

1:07:05.796 --> 1:07:08.796
<v Speaker 4>you know, I mean the Berkeley all the Berkeley High thing,

1:07:08.796 --> 1:07:10.356
<v Speaker 4>like we were walking out of school every day.

1:07:10.396 --> 1:07:12.676
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, prot it was a protest. It was

1:07:12.716 --> 1:07:14.236
<v Speaker 3>at least a protest a week.

1:07:15.316 --> 1:07:17.916
<v Speaker 4>Just like, and the teachers were like, oh, we got

1:07:17.916 --> 1:07:18.756
<v Speaker 4>to wrap up class earlier.

1:07:18.756 --> 1:07:20.076
<v Speaker 3>I know, you got a big protest to get to.

1:07:20.196 --> 1:07:23.876
<v Speaker 1>You know. It was like, uh, we'll stop math today

1:07:23.876 --> 1:07:24.636
<v Speaker 1>because you gotta get up.

1:07:24.676 --> 1:07:25.756
<v Speaker 3>You guys got to get out there.

1:07:26.236 --> 1:07:27.316
<v Speaker 1>Nuclear here.

1:07:27.436 --> 1:07:29.356
<v Speaker 4>I have some extra signs behind the desk if you'd

1:07:29.476 --> 1:07:30.796
<v Speaker 4>like to, you know, whatever.

1:07:32.156 --> 1:07:35.276
<v Speaker 3>So, yeah, it was just part of it, and I

1:07:35.316 --> 1:07:37.636
<v Speaker 3>don't know it was.

1:07:40.116 --> 1:07:44.476
<v Speaker 4>It was sort of a surprised to find art separate

1:07:44.516 --> 1:07:48.276
<v Speaker 4>from activism actually, like upon leaving, you know, I didn't

1:07:48.316 --> 1:07:51.036
<v Speaker 4>really know. I guess I had heard tell of it,

1:07:51.116 --> 1:07:53.316
<v Speaker 4>but like I didn't really know how you participated, and

1:07:53.396 --> 1:07:54.756
<v Speaker 4>I didn't know that it existed.

1:07:54.996 --> 1:07:55.196
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1:07:55.996 --> 1:07:59.356
<v Speaker 4>I was a poetry slam kid, and I was like whatever,

1:07:59.476 --> 1:08:03.476
<v Speaker 4>like I you know, Mark Mamuti, Joseph one of my mentors,

1:08:03.516 --> 1:08:08.356
<v Speaker 4>like they're there literally was no separation between like any

1:08:08.396 --> 1:08:10.996
<v Speaker 4>word he said, and like any way that his body

1:08:11.036 --> 1:08:17.036
<v Speaker 4>moves and like his connection to activism, So like I yeah,

1:08:17.116 --> 1:08:20.996
<v Speaker 4>so it's just yeah, it's just kind of in there

1:08:22.436 --> 1:08:26.796
<v Speaker 4>and it's not you know, it's not all great. There's

1:08:26.956 --> 1:08:29.316
<v Speaker 4>you know, there are some ways that like Berkeley is

1:08:29.356 --> 1:08:33.676
<v Speaker 4>really fucking annoying man like Oakley can be really annoying.

1:08:34.516 --> 1:08:38.076
<v Speaker 4>But also I would take it over, you know, I

1:08:38.356 --> 1:08:44.956
<v Speaker 4>would take an awareness, even at the expense of just

1:08:44.996 --> 1:08:47.396
<v Speaker 4>being able to have a nice dinner, you know, to

1:08:48.356 --> 1:08:50.476
<v Speaker 4>the other side of it, to only ever having nice

1:08:50.516 --> 1:08:54.436
<v Speaker 4>tenders with like not having at least some some awareness

1:08:54.436 --> 1:08:58.596
<v Speaker 4>and desire to like help people that like things should

1:08:58.596 --> 1:09:00.836
<v Speaker 4>not be as they are and how do I at

1:09:01.196 --> 1:09:03.596
<v Speaker 4>at least some exploration of how do I fit into that,

1:09:03.636 --> 1:09:06.396
<v Speaker 4>and how can I affect that and how can we

1:09:06.556 --> 1:09:07.596
<v Speaker 4>affect that for each other.

1:09:08.116 --> 1:09:10.076
<v Speaker 2>There's also to me with the thing that when I

1:09:10.116 --> 1:09:12.876
<v Speaker 2>think about what I gained by moving to the Bay

1:09:12.916 --> 1:09:17.676
<v Speaker 2>Area and living in Oakland specifically, there's an effortless intersectionality

1:09:17.676 --> 1:09:20.876
<v Speaker 2>that happens there where you just stumble across different communities

1:09:20.956 --> 1:09:23.436
<v Speaker 2>and so then you leave and go, Wait, you guys

1:09:23.436 --> 1:09:25.836
<v Speaker 2>are freaked out about those things. I didn't know, to

1:09:25.876 --> 1:09:27.836
<v Speaker 2>be freaked out about those things, you know what I mean,

1:09:27.916 --> 1:09:30.556
<v Speaker 2>Like I was just sort of around people saying those things,

1:09:30.596 --> 1:09:33.596
<v Speaker 2>and you know, so you know that we just sort

1:09:33.636 --> 1:09:35.596
<v Speaker 2>of that even though it's funny, Oakland has this very

1:09:35.636 --> 1:09:37.836
<v Speaker 2>hard you know, like you said, like you know, like

1:09:37.996 --> 1:09:41.116
<v Speaker 2>don't oh you're from Oakland up. But also like Oakland

1:09:41.156 --> 1:09:44.956
<v Speaker 2>has this like as long as you're cool, you know. Yeah,

1:09:45.036 --> 1:09:47.236
<v Speaker 2>and also down for the people, down for the cause,

1:09:47.276 --> 1:09:49.116
<v Speaker 2>down for the people struggling, down for the oppressed.

1:09:49.436 --> 1:09:51.796
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, and not a lot of.

1:09:56.156 --> 1:09:58.396
<v Speaker 4>There's not a lot of pretense about what that looks

1:09:58.476 --> 1:10:00.876
<v Speaker 4>like on some what kind of person that is, right,

1:10:01.436 --> 1:10:08.196
<v Speaker 4>It's a diverse community in all senses, economically, ethnically, and

1:10:08.396 --> 1:10:11.756
<v Speaker 4>just so like there's yeah, I feel like a lot

1:10:11.756 --> 1:10:15.316
<v Speaker 4>of places you'll go and there's there's just an assumption

1:10:15.396 --> 1:10:17.636
<v Speaker 4>that a person who cares about this is this kind

1:10:17.676 --> 1:10:19.356
<v Speaker 4>of a person, or has this kind of a job,

1:10:19.476 --> 1:10:20.996
<v Speaker 4>or does this really you know, and that's just not

1:10:21.036 --> 1:10:24.956
<v Speaker 4>true there. Like you said, like the intersectionality is very common.

1:10:24.996 --> 1:10:27.996
<v Speaker 4>It's almost like it just is how it is, you know.

1:10:29.316 --> 1:10:30.996
<v Speaker 4>And I think that's one of the things when you

1:10:31.076 --> 1:10:36.076
<v Speaker 4>talk about the reason we are so proud of it

1:10:36.156 --> 1:10:42.316
<v Speaker 4>when we're from there is because we you know, you

1:10:42.396 --> 1:10:44.716
<v Speaker 4>go away and you is the first time when you

1:10:44.756 --> 1:10:48.636
<v Speaker 4>realize that not everywhere. It's like oh and you're starting

1:10:48.636 --> 1:10:51.276
<v Speaker 4>to explain yourself all the time, and the explanation always

1:10:51.316 --> 1:10:53.956
<v Speaker 4>ends up starting to look, I'm from I'm from Oakland.

1:10:53.996 --> 1:10:58.316
<v Speaker 3>So and then you know and you hope that that.

1:10:58.236 --> 1:10:59.676
<v Speaker 1>Will be enough. Is that you know?

1:10:59.796 --> 1:11:06.236
<v Speaker 4>So you yeah, yeah, it's a different way of seeing things.

1:11:06.276 --> 1:11:08.716
<v Speaker 3>It just is it just it just is. I don't

1:11:08.716 --> 1:11:10.356
<v Speaker 3>know and make it, but I grew up in it,

1:11:10.636 --> 1:11:11.916
<v Speaker 3>so like, yeah.

1:11:11.916 --> 1:11:14.036
<v Speaker 1>You're and you're making it. You're making it.

1:11:14.156 --> 1:11:17.756
<v Speaker 2>My penultimate question, are there any Is there any life

1:11:17.876 --> 1:11:20.156
<v Speaker 2>lesson or thing that is true in your life? Are

1:11:20.196 --> 1:11:21.836
<v Speaker 2>things that regularly help you sort of get through the

1:11:21.916 --> 1:11:24.156
<v Speaker 2>day or sort of process the world, or things that

1:11:24.196 --> 1:11:27.236
<v Speaker 2>you're like, this thing is true, this thing I've learned,

1:11:27.276 --> 1:11:29.156
<v Speaker 2>this thing my mom said, this thing I read one

1:11:29.196 --> 1:11:31.876
<v Speaker 2>time really helps you sort of like a mantra or

1:11:31.956 --> 1:11:34.756
<v Speaker 2>anything that's sort of like like that, you're like, this

1:11:34.796 --> 1:11:35.236
<v Speaker 2>is one thing.

1:11:35.276 --> 1:11:36.316
<v Speaker 1>I know a few.

1:11:36.436 --> 1:11:40.356
<v Speaker 4>I have a couple of good mantras and me and

1:11:40.476 --> 1:11:43.636
<v Speaker 4>Ralph's mantra for since we started making rap songs. Energy

1:11:43.716 --> 1:11:46.876
<v Speaker 4>up expectations down, is it?

1:11:48.476 --> 1:11:50.916
<v Speaker 1>And so energy up expectations down.

1:11:51.156 --> 1:11:53.036
<v Speaker 4>When we were doing rap shows at you know, the

1:11:53.076 --> 1:11:55.796
<v Speaker 4>Senior Citizens Center in Berkeley or whatever like that, this.

1:11:55.796 --> 1:11:58.156
<v Speaker 3>Was the thing like you're gonna put if you this

1:11:58.236 --> 1:11:58.956
<v Speaker 3>is what we're doing.

1:11:58.956 --> 1:12:01.116
<v Speaker 4>This is what we're doing now, and I'll put all

1:12:01.156 --> 1:12:03.916
<v Speaker 4>of myself into it, and I'm going to expect absolutely

1:12:03.916 --> 1:12:06.116
<v Speaker 4>nothing in return. I'm doing this because this is what

1:12:06.156 --> 1:12:10.676
<v Speaker 4>I do, and so has served me very well. I'm

1:12:10.716 --> 1:12:15.276
<v Speaker 4>always pleasantly surprised when anything comes back. It's not the point.

1:12:15.436 --> 1:12:21.756
<v Speaker 4>It's again like about being a process person. And my

1:12:22.156 --> 1:12:27.276
<v Speaker 4>dad always told me that you love people for exactly

1:12:27.276 --> 1:12:31.476
<v Speaker 4>who they are and uh not who you want them

1:12:31.476 --> 1:12:33.796
<v Speaker 4>to be. Who love them for who they are, and

1:12:33.836 --> 1:12:35.316
<v Speaker 4>when they tell you who they are, you get to

1:12:35.356 --> 1:12:37.036
<v Speaker 4>listen to them and you get to hold them to that,

1:12:37.156 --> 1:12:43.236
<v Speaker 4>you know, And that is a thing that has really

1:12:43.596 --> 1:12:44.476
<v Speaker 4>served me, like.

1:12:44.436 --> 1:12:45.676
<v Speaker 1>That, you look for it, that's who you are.

1:12:46.436 --> 1:12:48.316
<v Speaker 2>If I love you, then I understand that you are

1:12:48.516 --> 1:12:52.636
<v Speaker 2>and I don't again, energy up expectations exactly what to

1:12:52.716 --> 1:12:54.636
<v Speaker 2>expect from you, because you've told me who you are.

1:12:54.756 --> 1:12:56.916
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And it's and it was never about what I

1:12:56.956 --> 1:12:59.076
<v Speaker 4>get back from you necessarily. You know, it's about I

1:12:59.116 --> 1:13:01.156
<v Speaker 4>love this, this is who this is you, that's what

1:13:01.196 --> 1:13:04.876
<v Speaker 4>I love and uh yeah, so those those are probably

1:13:04.836 --> 1:13:06.276
<v Speaker 4>the two best ones.

1:13:06.356 --> 1:13:08.276
<v Speaker 2>That's great, that's great. We don't know, we get too

1:13:09.156 --> 1:13:13.556
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for that last question. What cause would you

1:13:13.636 --> 1:13:15.236
<v Speaker 2>like people to support? What nonprofit?

1:13:15.316 --> 1:13:17.076
<v Speaker 1>What? What thing that's going on? Do you want people

1:13:17.116 --> 1:13:17.636
<v Speaker 1>to know about?

1:13:17.916 --> 1:13:21.396
<v Speaker 4>The organization I've been doing the most work with lately

1:13:21.436 --> 1:13:25.836
<v Speaker 4>is one called cool Hand Series, which is run by

1:13:25.836 --> 1:13:30.836
<v Speaker 4>a woman named Madison O'Leary, and it's the hype as

1:13:30.836 --> 1:13:37.236
<v Speaker 4>we bring films and filmmakers into prisons and then have

1:13:37.316 --> 1:13:43.196
<v Speaker 4>conversations with inmates after post screening. So it's allowing art

1:13:43.236 --> 1:13:48.476
<v Speaker 4>to make its way into the prison system and for

1:13:48.876 --> 1:13:51.076
<v Speaker 4>the artists, for the creator, also getting us to think

1:13:51.116 --> 1:13:53.036
<v Speaker 4>more about where our stories come from and who there's

1:13:53.116 --> 1:13:55.596
<v Speaker 4>who are stories are for and.

1:13:55.556 --> 1:13:56.076
<v Speaker 3>Where the story.

1:13:57.916 --> 1:14:02.796
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's a great organization is basically Maddie doing all

1:14:02.836 --> 1:14:05.836
<v Speaker 4>of it. Ralph and I have brought Blind Spotting into

1:14:05.836 --> 1:14:07.876
<v Speaker 4>a number of prisons at this point. They're also doing

1:14:08.276 --> 1:14:13.996
<v Speaker 4>playwriting and and theater workshops in there, so producing plays

1:14:14.036 --> 1:14:19.476
<v Speaker 4>and uh yeah, and she's brought so many great films

1:14:19.476 --> 1:14:23.036
<v Speaker 4>and filmmakers in already a lot of work in California,

1:14:23.076 --> 1:14:26.116
<v Speaker 4>a lot of New York. Also, we've done work in Utah.

1:14:26.236 --> 1:14:28.876
<v Speaker 4>She's doing work in Texas. I haven't been there yet,

1:14:28.876 --> 1:14:31.036
<v Speaker 4>but we're trying to figure that out. So yeah, it's

1:14:31.796 --> 1:14:34.796
<v Speaker 4>it's a great org for like the artist friends of mine,

1:14:34.916 --> 1:14:37.436
<v Speaker 4>like the naming names who are listening to this when

1:14:37.556 --> 1:14:39.116
<v Speaker 4>when you get the call just say yes.

1:14:39.076 --> 1:14:39.916
<v Speaker 3>It's so fun.

1:14:40.396 --> 1:14:43.316
<v Speaker 4>It is actually like you know, it's it's a great,

1:14:43.356 --> 1:14:46.116
<v Speaker 4>great time and a great and eye opening experience and

1:14:46.756 --> 1:14:50.556
<v Speaker 4>you get to have some really beautiful conversations and meet

1:14:50.636 --> 1:14:54.756
<v Speaker 4>really beautiful people, and you know, it's a way to

1:14:55.876 --> 1:15:00.556
<v Speaker 4>acknowledge the madness of our for profit prison system in

1:15:00.596 --> 1:15:04.676
<v Speaker 4>a very like hands on way and then figure out

1:15:05.876 --> 1:15:08.076
<v Speaker 4>at least start to spend a little bit on well,

1:15:08.116 --> 1:15:12.236
<v Speaker 4>what what can we do? This is how it is

1:15:12.316 --> 1:15:14.356
<v Speaker 4>a how can we change it? And be like what

1:15:14.356 --> 1:15:17.196
<v Speaker 4>can we do with it in this in its current state?

1:15:17.196 --> 1:15:19.836
<v Speaker 4>And I think that's actually for a thing that is

1:15:19.996 --> 1:15:22.716
<v Speaker 4>pretty simple at its course, just like come in to

1:15:22.756 --> 1:15:25.436
<v Speaker 4>prison and do and talk to people who show art

1:15:25.476 --> 1:15:27.596
<v Speaker 4>and talk to people who are interested in art.

1:15:28.116 --> 1:15:30.276
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's called the cool Hand Series, cool Hand Series,

1:15:30.276 --> 1:15:31.756
<v Speaker 2>and I haven't done that, but I have done so

1:15:31.836 --> 1:15:33.916
<v Speaker 2>at Saint Quentin, and I think people don't understand that

1:15:33.956 --> 1:15:36.476
<v Speaker 2>you get afraid of, like going into a prison, but

1:15:36.516 --> 1:15:38.396
<v Speaker 2>when you go to those places, you immediately feel like,

1:15:38.916 --> 1:15:41.836
<v Speaker 2>who's afraid of? They're just so happy that I'm here.

1:15:41.916 --> 1:15:43.796
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, the just and there and there happen,

1:15:43.836 --> 1:15:46.116
<v Speaker 2>and the things that I say that I know they'd never.

1:15:45.996 --> 1:15:48.716
<v Speaker 1>Have heard before, and they really appreciate it, you know, yeah.

1:15:48.636 --> 1:15:51.316
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, no, it's it's always a beautiful experience. Everyone is

1:15:51.316 --> 1:15:55.476
<v Speaker 4>thrilled that you're there. And also and I end up

1:15:55.516 --> 1:15:57.556
<v Speaker 4>getting so much out of it, and every time I

1:15:57.596 --> 1:15:58.636
<v Speaker 4>go so sure.

1:15:58.596 --> 1:15:58.956
<v Speaker 3>All right.

1:15:59.356 --> 1:16:01.476
<v Speaker 1>Uh, last of the podcast is called Who's with Me?

1:16:01.556 --> 1:16:02.076
<v Speaker 1>Are you with me?

1:16:02.156 --> 1:16:03.116
<v Speaker 3>I'm with you? All right?

1:16:03.236 --> 1:16:05.276
<v Speaker 1>Always be weird to find out.

1:16:06.436 --> 1:16:08.636
<v Speaker 3>Actually, thank you.

1:16:08.676 --> 1:16:11.036
<v Speaker 1>Finally, I didn't want to be here at all.

1:16:11.836 --> 1:16:14.116
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, thank you, Thanks Verving.

1:16:16.316 --> 1:16:18.996
<v Speaker 2>That was my conversation with David Diggs. Love talking to

1:16:19.036 --> 1:16:20.876
<v Speaker 2>that dude, could talk to him for hours and hours.

1:16:20.876 --> 1:16:21.836
<v Speaker 2>Just sort of good person.

1:16:22.276 --> 1:16:22.676
<v Speaker 1>As you heard.

1:16:22.676 --> 1:16:24.556
<v Speaker 2>At the end, he shouted out the cool Hand Series,

1:16:24.876 --> 1:16:27.636
<v Speaker 2>which is a curated series that brings filmmakers and their

1:16:27.676 --> 1:16:31.756
<v Speaker 2>films into prisons so that the population there can see

1:16:31.756 --> 1:16:33.716
<v Speaker 2>these films they might not otherwise see, and also they

1:16:33.756 --> 1:16:35.956
<v Speaker 2>can engage enough conversations with these filmmakers.

1:16:36.076 --> 1:16:36.956
<v Speaker 1>It's a great idea.

1:16:37.156 --> 1:16:38.956
<v Speaker 2>I do a lot of work with San Quentin in

1:16:38.996 --> 1:16:42.236
<v Speaker 2>my area, so I know the power of going into

1:16:42.236 --> 1:16:44.516
<v Speaker 2>a prison. It is powerful for the people in the prison.

1:16:44.556 --> 1:16:47.276
<v Speaker 2>It's also powerful for you. Thank you DEVV for being

1:16:47.276 --> 1:16:50.956
<v Speaker 2>on the show today. Come back anytime. Also, thank you

1:16:50.956 --> 1:16:52.916
<v Speaker 2>to Rabigren here in La where I am right now,

1:16:52.916 --> 1:16:56.756
<v Speaker 2>who's producing this show, Rabagren Productions. Thank out to Pushkin

1:16:56.796 --> 1:17:00.996
<v Speaker 2>Productions who is helping send this podcast around the world.

1:17:01.316 --> 1:17:04.756
<v Speaker 2>And thank you to who else. Thank you to me.

1:17:05.036 --> 1:17:07.156
<v Speaker 1>I showed up and I did it. I did my best.

1:17:10.316 --> 1:17:12.876
<v Speaker 2>Special shout out to Skyline Studios as always, who lets

1:17:12.876 --> 1:17:15.116
<v Speaker 2>me do things in Oakland. Next week, our guest is

1:17:15.196 --> 1:17:18.876
<v Speaker 2>Nava Mao. Nava Mao is famously known for being one

1:17:18.916 --> 1:17:22.076
<v Speaker 2>of the stars of the Netflix series Baby Reindeer. Nava

1:17:22.196 --> 1:17:25.236
<v Speaker 2>Mao is also a transgender actress, which I only mentioned

1:17:25.236 --> 1:17:26.916
<v Speaker 2>because we talk about that a lot, and I want

1:17:26.956 --> 1:17:28.436
<v Speaker 2>you to tune in for that episode because the last

1:17:28.436 --> 1:17:30.716
<v Speaker 2>two weeks we've talked about the transgender community. But I

1:17:30.716 --> 1:17:33.796
<v Speaker 2>should probably have somebody from that community to speak for themselves.

1:17:33.876 --> 1:17:37.716
<v Speaker 2>So next week, nav Mao and also once again, please

1:17:38.356 --> 1:17:42.636
<v Speaker 2>like and subscribe Hype the Channel, give us five star reviews,

1:17:42.836 --> 1:17:45.716
<v Speaker 2>and once you do all that, then share the podcast

1:17:45.756 --> 1:17:47.356
<v Speaker 2>with somebody in your life who you think would dig it.

1:17:47.396 --> 1:17:49.436
<v Speaker 2>That's the important part. That's how we build it. If

1:17:49.476 --> 1:17:52.116
<v Speaker 2>you share this podcast with one or two people, then

1:17:52.156 --> 1:17:54.476
<v Speaker 2>we can really start to do some things and really

1:17:54.516 --> 1:17:55.356
<v Speaker 2>get the word out there.

1:17:55.476 --> 1:17:57.956
<v Speaker 1>Who's with me? Are you with me? I'm with you?

1:17:58.156 --> 1:18:00.516
<v Speaker 1>If you're watching right now, I'm pretty sure I'm with you.

1:18:00.876 --> 1:18:02.836
<v Speaker 2>I can't imagine that Dana White and Joe Rogan made

1:18:02.836 --> 1:18:12.236
<v Speaker 2>it this far.