WEBVTT - 34.5 A Workplace AfterPod with Dr. Kerry Sulkowicz

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<v Speaker 1>It's that time again, time for another bonus episode. Dear listeners.

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<v Speaker 1>Now for this week's after pod, we thought we'd put

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<v Speaker 1>some of your workplace quandaries to our guests from last week, psychiatrists, psychoanalysts,

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<v Speaker 1>and leadership expert Carrie Pulkotz. So we have carry here.

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<v Speaker 1>We have some listener voicemails we're going to play for him,

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<v Speaker 1>and some additional questions about his work with leaders in

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<v Speaker 1>corporate America. So let's get to it. Here's a voicemail

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<v Speaker 1>from a caller named Jonah who is a new manager,

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<v Speaker 1>and he had a question for you. Hi. I'm the

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<v Speaker 1>editor of a small publication that is business to business

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<v Speaker 1>UM and I've recently started to manage just a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of reporters. I'm exploring a lot of resources for managers,

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<v Speaker 1>but a lot of them seem to assume that the

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<v Speaker 1>team is all centralized in one place, But I and

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<v Speaker 1>managing a remote team. But I only really get to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to by phone and not slack. So I guess

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering what are some ways to really build a

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<v Speaker 1>good bond or remport with team and being affected manager

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<v Speaker 1>when you're managing people on the other side of the country.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much, Right, that's interesting. You know this talks

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<v Speaker 1>about sort of the disruption of management in this country

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<v Speaker 1>because of technology. Jonah, I'm sure isn't the only person

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with this, So what advice would you give him?

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<v Speaker 1>Carry This is such a common challenge these days of

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<v Speaker 1>managing a remote team, and most managers manage remote teams

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<v Speaker 1>these days. It seems, um there's no substitute, first of all,

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<v Speaker 1>for face to face contact. So even if the team

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<v Speaker 1>is remote, if it's possible economically to try to get

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<v Speaker 1>this team together from time to time in person, I

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<v Speaker 1>think that makes a huge difference. That's one. The second

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<v Speaker 1>is that given that remote management puts some barrier between

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<v Speaker 1>the manager and the people that he or she he

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<v Speaker 1>in this case is managing, um, it puts even more

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<v Speaker 1>of a premium on the manager to get to know

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<v Speaker 1>his people and allow them to get to know him

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<v Speaker 1>and so uh so a greater degree of personal disclosure,

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<v Speaker 1>of making himself more vulnerable to them, of not just

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<v Speaker 1>making the time that they speak on the phone or

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<v Speaker 1>via Slack or whatever technological aid they use, making that

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<v Speaker 1>time not just transactional, and in his case, talking about

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<v Speaker 1>the stories that they're covering, but also getting to know

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<v Speaker 1>them as human beings, understanding something about their families, their

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<v Speaker 1>personal lives, and letting them get to know him. Establishing

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<v Speaker 1>that personal bond deepens the trust and helps mitigate to

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<v Speaker 1>some degree, the challenge to managing remotely. Is there some

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<v Speaker 1>single business challenge that you consistently see ceo s or

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<v Speaker 1>boards facing in addition to sort of this type of dislocation. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>in regard to remote management, it's not just the one

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<v Speaker 1>on one relationship between the manager and whoever he's managing,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's also the ability to create a healthy team

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<v Speaker 1>dynamic because the team is often dispersed, and so I

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<v Speaker 1>think teams find that, for instance, if you get together

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<v Speaker 1>off site h every now and then, it makes an

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<v Speaker 1>enormous difference. And again, those off sites shouldn't just be

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<v Speaker 1>with a rigid agenda of topics to cover, but there

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<v Speaker 1>needs to be a social component, and it's that social

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<v Speaker 1>company something that that certainly members of Congress need to

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<v Speaker 1>do more often. They say, if they get to know

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<v Speaker 1>people personally, their willingness to work together and to compromise increases,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, immensely. But I wanted to ask you what

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<v Speaker 1>about not just remote working, But do you hear sort

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<v Speaker 1>of an issue that business leaders come to you about

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<v Speaker 1>that seems to be a thread among a variety of

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<v Speaker 1>workplaces today. Some of the themes that are coming up

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<v Speaker 1>in my travels through the business world these days that

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<v Speaker 1>are new, even though many aspects of management and leadership

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<v Speaker 1>are really unchanged, probably since the dawn of time. One

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<v Speaker 1>is remote management that's new, relatively new. And another big

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<v Speaker 1>trend that I've seen in business these days is that

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<v Speaker 1>traditional vertically organized organizations, meaning were the people who have

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<v Speaker 1>the most power and the most authority on top and

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<v Speaker 1>those with with lesser down on the bottom, are being

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<v Speaker 1>flipped over. And so the given the interest in the

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<v Speaker 1>emphasis on technology these days and the startup culture that

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<v Speaker 1>we're living in, it's usually the young, the millennials, the

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<v Speaker 1>people in their twenties thirties too, who know a lot

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<v Speaker 1>more about what's going on in the business than the

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<v Speaker 1>CEOs and the senior managers who may be in their

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<v Speaker 1>fifties and sixties. And so I think that it behooves

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<v Speaker 1>leaders these days to not be hierarchical and to listen

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<v Speaker 1>and learn from the bottom up. I met someone at

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<v Speaker 1>the Aspen Ideas Festival who said we need to have

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<v Speaker 1>reverse mentoring, in other words, young people teaching older employees

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<v Speaker 1>because things are changing that quick. Along those lines, we

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<v Speaker 1>have a voicemail from Joyce who wants to know how

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<v Speaker 1>to navigate going from being a chief executive to answering

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<v Speaker 1>to younger colleagues, which can hurt sometimes. Let's listen, Hi,

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<v Speaker 1>this is Joyce, and I am calling a out being

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<v Speaker 1>a former leader of an organization, I was executive director

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<v Speaker 1>of a small museum. I have led campaigns, and I

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<v Speaker 1>am looking to find out as I move into my

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<v Speaker 1>later stages of my career, and I'm hoping for a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit less stress and less responsibility how I go

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<v Speaker 1>about working with people that are younger than me, who

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<v Speaker 1>will probably be in higher position, but yet still will

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<v Speaker 1>be looking for leadership within my position, yet will probably

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<v Speaker 1>also need to be somewhat subservient, which is a hard

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<v Speaker 1>thing to do after you have led organizations. So I'm

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<v Speaker 1>looking for a way to navigate those two somewhat opposing

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<v Speaker 1>situations within the workplace and and seeking your guidance. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>so much, by What would you say to her? To Joyce?

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<v Speaker 1>It's a great question and one that I think will

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<v Speaker 1>be increasingly common as people don't want to retire when

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<v Speaker 1>they're in their fifties or six season want to keep

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<v Speaker 1>working in some way even if they're not running an

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<v Speaker 1>organization anymore. And the secret to it, if there is one,

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<v Speaker 1>is does one feel comfortable being a little humble? And um,

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to say you have to leave your

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<v Speaker 1>ego at the door a bit, right, Yeah, I love

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<v Speaker 1>that term, even though it's of course not really possible.

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<v Speaker 1>But um, but yeah, if there's there's nothing wrong with

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<v Speaker 1>admitting that, you know, you used to be an executive

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<v Speaker 1>director or a CEO, uh and you're not doing that anymore,

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<v Speaker 1>and that you want to learn. You have a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of wisdom presumably and have a lot to offer these

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<v Speaker 1>young people. But it's a it's very mutual. They have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot to teach you and if you can approach

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<v Speaker 1>it not about being subservient. I actually am a little

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<v Speaker 1>troubled by that word. It's less about subservience and more

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<v Speaker 1>about a kind of mutuality and sharing. Um, and the

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<v Speaker 1>learning can go in both ways. Carrie Salkowitz, Carrie, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much. That's it for our Afterpod with Carrie Salkowitz.

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<v Speaker 1>As usual, we want to hear what you thought. You

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<v Speaker 1>can leave us a voicemail at four six three seven,

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<v Speaker 1>or email us always at comments at current podcast dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>We hope you enjoyed that little bonus episode and we'll

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<v Speaker 1>talk to you next week