1
00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,920
Speaker 1: It's that time again, time for another bonus episode. Dear listeners.

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,960
Speaker 1: Now for this week's after pod, we thought we'd put

3
00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:16,520
Speaker 1: some of your workplace quandaries to our guests from last week, psychiatrists, psychoanalysts,

4
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,160
Speaker 1: and leadership expert Carrie Pulkotz. So we have carry here.

5
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: We have some listener voicemails we're going to play for him,

6
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,319
Speaker 1: and some additional questions about his work with leaders in

7
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:33,200
Speaker 1: corporate America. So let's get to it. Here's a voicemail

8
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,880
Speaker 1: from a caller named Jonah who is a new manager,

9
00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,280
Speaker 1: and he had a question for you. Hi. I'm the

10
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,240
Speaker 1: editor of a small publication that is business to business

11
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,120
Speaker 1: UM and I've recently started to manage just a couple

12
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:54,200
Speaker 1: of reporters. I'm exploring a lot of resources for managers,

13
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,760
Speaker 1: but a lot of them seem to assume that the

14
00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,040
Speaker 1: team is all centralized in one place, But I and

15
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,480
Speaker 1: managing a remote team. But I only really get to

16
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,520
Speaker 1: talk to by phone and not slack. So I guess

17
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,360
Speaker 1: I'm wondering what are some ways to really build a

18
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:15,040
Speaker 1: good bond or remport with team and being affected manager

19
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 1: when you're managing people on the other side of the country.

20
00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Right, that's interesting. You know this talks

21
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,440
Speaker 1: about sort of the disruption of management in this country

22
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: because of technology. Jonah, I'm sure isn't the only person

23
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,160
Speaker 1: dealing with this, So what advice would you give him?

24
00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,520
Speaker 1: Carry This is such a common challenge these days of

25
00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,759
Speaker 1: managing a remote team, and most managers manage remote teams

26
00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,520
Speaker 1: these days. It seems, um there's no substitute, first of all,

27
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 1: for face to face contact. So even if the team

28
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,960
Speaker 1: is remote, if it's possible economically to try to get

29
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,200
Speaker 1: this team together from time to time in person, I

30
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,640
Speaker 1: think that makes a huge difference. That's one. The second

31
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: is that given that remote management puts some barrier between

32
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,160
Speaker 1: the manager and the people that he or she he

33
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,680
Speaker 1: in this case is managing, um, it puts even more

34
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,920
Speaker 1: of a premium on the manager to get to know

35
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,120
Speaker 1: his people and allow them to get to know him

36
00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,559
Speaker 1: and so uh so a greater degree of personal disclosure,

37
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 1: of making himself more vulnerable to them, of not just

38
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 1: making the time that they speak on the phone or

39
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,320
Speaker 1: via Slack or whatever technological aid they use, making that

40
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 1: time not just transactional, and in his case, talking about

41
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,960
Speaker 1: the stories that they're covering, but also getting to know

42
00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,040
Speaker 1: them as human beings, understanding something about their families, their

43
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,960
Speaker 1: personal lives, and letting them get to know him. Establishing

44
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,320
Speaker 1: that personal bond deepens the trust and helps mitigate to

45
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,680
Speaker 1: some degree, the challenge to managing remotely. Is there some

46
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:47,840
Speaker 1: single business challenge that you consistently see ceo s or

47
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,559
Speaker 1: boards facing in addition to sort of this type of dislocation. Well,

48
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,079
Speaker 1: in regard to remote management, it's not just the one

49
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,040
Speaker 1: on one relationship between the manager and whoever he's managing,

50
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,480
Speaker 1: but it's also the ability to create a healthy team

51
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,880
Speaker 1: dynamic because the team is often dispersed, and so I

52
00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,079
Speaker 1: think teams find that, for instance, if you get together

53
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 1: off site h every now and then, it makes an

54
00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,520
Speaker 1: enormous difference. And again, those off sites shouldn't just be

55
00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,440
Speaker 1: with a rigid agenda of topics to cover, but there

56
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,440
Speaker 1: needs to be a social component, and it's that social

57
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,480
Speaker 1: company something that that certainly members of Congress need to

58
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,280
Speaker 1: do more often. They say, if they get to know

59
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 1: people personally, their willingness to work together and to compromise increases,

60
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,200
Speaker 1: you know, immensely. But I wanted to ask you what

61
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,480
Speaker 1: about not just remote working, But do you hear sort

62
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,840
Speaker 1: of an issue that business leaders come to you about

63
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,040
Speaker 1: that seems to be a thread among a variety of

64
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,640
Speaker 1: workplaces today. Some of the themes that are coming up

65
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 1: in my travels through the business world these days that

66
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,840
Speaker 1: are new, even though many aspects of management and leadership

67
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 1: are really unchanged, probably since the dawn of time. One

68
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,080
Speaker 1: is remote management that's new, relatively new. And another big

69
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,280
Speaker 1: trend that I've seen in business these days is that

70
00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,840
Speaker 1: traditional vertically organized organizations, meaning were the people who have

71
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,240
Speaker 1: the most power and the most authority on top and

72
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,080
Speaker 1: those with with lesser down on the bottom, are being

73
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 1: flipped over. And so the given the interest in the

74
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,600
Speaker 1: emphasis on technology these days and the startup culture that

75
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,640
Speaker 1: we're living in, it's usually the young, the millennials, the

76
00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,479
Speaker 1: people in their twenties thirties too, who know a lot

77
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,680
Speaker 1: more about what's going on in the business than the

78
00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,480
Speaker 1: CEOs and the senior managers who may be in their

79
00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,359
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties. And so I think that it behooves

80
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,719
Speaker 1: leaders these days to not be hierarchical and to listen

81
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,600
Speaker 1: and learn from the bottom up. I met someone at

82
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,440
Speaker 1: the Aspen Ideas Festival who said we need to have

83
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:41,800
Speaker 1: reverse mentoring, in other words, young people teaching older employees

84
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:46,320
Speaker 1: because things are changing that quick. Along those lines, we

85
00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,400
Speaker 1: have a voicemail from Joyce who wants to know how

86
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,599
Speaker 1: to navigate going from being a chief executive to answering

87
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:56,000
Speaker 1: to younger colleagues, which can hurt sometimes. Let's listen, Hi,

88
00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,760
Speaker 1: this is Joyce, and I am calling a out being

89
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,680
Speaker 1: a former leader of an organization, I was executive director

90
00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:10,440
Speaker 1: of a small museum. I have led campaigns, and I

91
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 1: am looking to find out as I move into my

92
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,120
Speaker 1: later stages of my career, and I'm hoping for a

93
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,520
Speaker 1: little bit less stress and less responsibility how I go

94
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,479
Speaker 1: about working with people that are younger than me, who

95
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,560
Speaker 1: will probably be in higher position, but yet still will

96
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,920
Speaker 1: be looking for leadership within my position, yet will probably

97
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,360
Speaker 1: also need to be somewhat subservient, which is a hard

98
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 1: thing to do after you have led organizations. So I'm

99
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,919
Speaker 1: looking for a way to navigate those two somewhat opposing

100
00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,719
Speaker 1: situations within the workplace and and seeking your guidance. Thanks

101
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,680
Speaker 1: so much, by What would you say to her? To Joyce?

102
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,200
Speaker 1: It's a great question and one that I think will

103
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,560
Speaker 1: be increasingly common as people don't want to retire when

104
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,600
Speaker 1: they're in their fifties or six season want to keep

105
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,960
Speaker 1: working in some way even if they're not running an

106
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,440
Speaker 1: organization anymore. And the secret to it, if there is one,

107
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,719
Speaker 1: is does one feel comfortable being a little humble? And um,

108
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 1: I was going to say you have to leave your

109
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,800
Speaker 1: ego at the door a bit, right, Yeah, I love

110
00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 1: that term, even though it's of course not really possible.

111
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 1: But um, but yeah, if there's there's nothing wrong with

112
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,760
Speaker 1: admitting that, you know, you used to be an executive

113
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,160
Speaker 1: director or a CEO, uh and you're not doing that anymore,

114
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 1: and that you want to learn. You have a lot

115
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,440
Speaker 1: of wisdom presumably and have a lot to offer these

116
00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,520
Speaker 1: young people. But it's a it's very mutual. They have

117
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,599
Speaker 1: a lot to teach you and if you can approach

118
00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,280
Speaker 1: it not about being subservient. I actually am a little

119
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,160
Speaker 1: troubled by that word. It's less about subservience and more

120
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,040
Speaker 1: about a kind of mutuality and sharing. Um, and the

121
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 1: learning can go in both ways. Carrie Salkowitz, Carrie, thank

122
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:57,799
Speaker 1: you so much. That's it for our Afterpod with Carrie Salkowitz.

123
00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 1: As usual, we want to hear what you thought. You

124
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,719
Speaker 1: can leave us a voicemail at four six three seven,

125
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:10,160
Speaker 1: or email us always at comments at current podcast dot com.

126
00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,040
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed that little bonus episode and we'll

127
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,000
Speaker 1: talk to you next week