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Speaker 1: Broadcasting live to New York Gloomberg eleventh Ryoh to Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C, Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg Well unders to San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg nine six to the Country Series Exam General one

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Speaker 1: ninety and around the globe. The Bloomberg Radio Plus appened

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. This is Rooomberg Surveillance. Hey, good morning,

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Speaker 1: I'm Karen Moscow, along with Michael McKee and Scarlet Foo

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Speaker 1: and the opening bell brought to you by American Arbitration Association.

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Speaker 1: five years. Learn more at a dr dot org. And

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Speaker 1: stocks are higher at the open. The S and P

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Speaker 1: five hundred up about two tenths per cent or three

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Speaker 1: points to one down. Jones Industrial average up two tenths

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Speaker 1: per cent or twenty nine points to eighteen thousand six,

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Speaker 1: and then as to acts, up two tenths per cent

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Speaker 1: or seven points to forty nine oh three ten. Your

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Speaker 1: treasury little change you'ld one point nine one percent. They

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Speaker 1: yield on the two year point eight four percent non

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Speaker 1: mex screwed oil at one point six percent or seventy

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Speaker 1: cents to forty three thirty four of barrel comex's gold

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Speaker 1: is up four tenths per cent or four an dollar

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Speaker 1: sixty cents to twelve forty four seventy and ounce the

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Speaker 1: euro at all our thirteen thirty two and the end

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Speaker 1: one ten point nine six. Mike and Scarlet, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. Karen. I'm Scarlet food in for Tom Keane

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Speaker 1: here with Michael McKee. This is Bloomberg Surveillance. Mike, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about hedge funds, the hedge fund industry, under pressure,

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Speaker 1: poor returns, about of contraction with some high profile funds closing,

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Speaker 1: and of course those high fees. So joining us now

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Speaker 1: is Ted Sites, formerly of Yale Investment Management and Protege Partners,

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Speaker 1: and currently author of a new book, So you want

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Speaker 1: to start a Hedge Fund Lessons for Managers and Alligators? Ted? Welcome, Thanks, Carl,

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Speaker 1: great to be here, Great to see you. So let's

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Speaker 1: start first with hedge funds and where they are. Is

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Speaker 1: the industry at an inflection point? Is it going through

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Speaker 1: a midlife crisis right now? I'm not sure it's a

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Speaker 1: midlife crisis. But there's certainly change happening. I think the

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Speaker 1: industry itself has really reached the mature phase of its growth,

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Speaker 1: and like any other industry, when it matures, lots of

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Speaker 1: things happen, both in the composition of the industry and

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Speaker 1: also to the participants. And what's the most important change

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Speaker 1: you see happening for folks who need to allocate their money?

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Speaker 1: I think the most important change that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people miss with the criticism about hedge fund returns is

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Speaker 1: that there'sn't a lot there are in a lot of

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Speaker 1: other places to put their money. So despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that returns have certainly disappointed the last few years, we

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Speaker 1: continue to see inflows into the industry, and the way

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Speaker 1: that those inflows are coming is changing. So what you're

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Speaker 1: seeing is a change in the composition of the industry,

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Speaker 1: And generally speaking, the investors and hedge funds aren't thrilled

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Speaker 1: with what they've had, and they're looking for something a

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Speaker 1: little bit different to get back to the kinds of

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Speaker 1: returns they were expecting in the past. Well, one of

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Speaker 1: the complaints that people have is that the returns the

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Speaker 1: hedge fund industry has provide it over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years aren't worth the cash that you've laid out,

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Speaker 1: So make the case for even bothering. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that's a fair point um, and we'll see what happens.

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Speaker 1: I like to refer to a terrific article that Carol

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Speaker 1: Loomis wrote called hard Times for Hedge Funds, and it

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Speaker 1: talks about how the long positions have gotten clawboard, and

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Speaker 1: the shorts are going the wrong way, and the fees

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Speaker 1: are too high and there's just too much money in

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Speaker 1: the industry to generate returns. The tricky part of it

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Speaker 1: is that terrible with that article in January of nineteen.

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Speaker 1: So we don't really know yet. Certainly we've seen some

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Speaker 1: cyclical head wins against hedge funds. I think the rate

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Speaker 1: environment is particularly challenging for hedge fund strategies. But it's

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Speaker 1: a little too soon to tell if we just had

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Speaker 1: a rough period of time or if there's a real

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Speaker 1: secular problem that we'll see. But make no mistake about it,

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Speaker 1: and investors are disappointed from the last one. Is the

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Speaker 1: model for you changed in the same way it has

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Speaker 1: for a lot of retail equity investors in that you're

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Speaker 1: not trading. Uh, you know, a heade strategy. You know,

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Speaker 1: one security against another. You're trying to get around computers

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Speaker 1: that are inserting themselves into every trade, and hedging doesn't

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Speaker 1: work because they're just gonna take the other side of

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Speaker 1: any trade you make. Yeah, you know, big data is

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Speaker 1: certainly working its way into the financial markets. And again

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Speaker 1: we have seen the last few years some of the

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Speaker 1: quantitative funds and renaissance most notoriously keeps producing returns like

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Speaker 1: a like an a t M machine, and some of

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Speaker 1: the others have as well. Um, But I don't think

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Speaker 1: that fundamental investing is sort of dead forever. Ultimately, stock

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Speaker 1: returns tend to correlate over time with companies underlying results. Um,

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Speaker 1: and we'll see what happens. So for those people who

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Speaker 1: are intent on setting up their own fund and starting

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Speaker 1: a new um and getting back to the fundamentals, talk

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Speaker 1: to us about what kind of strategy they should pursue. Um.

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Speaker 1: You make a point about how they should start, uh,

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Speaker 1: getting to work right away, putting money to work rather

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Speaker 1: than keeping this high cash balance. Why is that? Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: there are a bunch of subtle lessons in the book

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Speaker 1: from a strategic perspective. To start with. I think one

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Speaker 1: of the most important lessons that that I've seen managers

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Speaker 1: startup managers learn over time is to put forward exactly

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Speaker 1: what they want to do, because the environment or the

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Speaker 1: demand for strategies can be somewhat fickle and change with

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Speaker 1: recent performance. And so when someone is making their own bed,

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Speaker 1: ultimately they're going to have to lie in it, and

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Speaker 1: so they really need to think carefully about the long

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Speaker 1: term and what strategy they want to pursue for the

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Speaker 1: long term. Now, when it comes to actually starting a fund,

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Speaker 1: what happens is the day that a manager starts, the

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Speaker 1: clock is taking. So whatever strategy that is, if it's

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Speaker 1: a long short strategy or a convertible arbitrage strategy, there

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Speaker 1: are competitors that are in the business from the day

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Speaker 1: they start, and a lot of times what you see

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Speaker 1: is a manager will want their very best positions all

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Speaker 1: the time, and so in seeking this kind of ideal

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Speaker 1: that ultimately does and exist, they only put on positions

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Speaker 1: very very slowly um and exactly so they're looking for

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Speaker 1: perfection early when perfection really doesn't exist. And so what

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Speaker 1: I've seen a number of times is that it starts

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Speaker 1: that there's nothing wrong with trying to put your best

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Speaker 1: foot forward. But if a manager waits too long, and

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Speaker 1: let's assume that the strategy over time is going to

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Speaker 1: make money, they're kind of giving up too much return

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Speaker 1: in this sort of all important early months and quarters,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it just takes them too long and then

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Speaker 1: they generate returns that are unexciting for for the people

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Speaker 1: watching them and potentially looking to invest. How is it

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the allocation table, How easy

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Speaker 1: is it to raise money for a fund these days? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I think it's particularly difficult to normally getting more so

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Speaker 1: um so um. What we've seen is this increasing concentration

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Speaker 1: across the hedge fund industry, so the largest managers are

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Speaker 1: getting larger, and again that's the depite the fact that

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Speaker 1: the investors haven't been all that excited about what they're seeing.

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Speaker 1: And so as a result of that, although for any

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Speaker 1: one startup it's particularly difficult, there is demand and there

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Speaker 1: will be increasing demand at the startup phase of the business.

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Speaker 1: So there are lots and lots of these startups, not

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Speaker 1: that many of them will succeed, just like the venture

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Speaker 1: capital business where not many ventures succeed. Um. But it's

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Speaker 1: important for all of these sort of newer managers to

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Speaker 1: understand that there are ways that they can modestly improve

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Speaker 1: their chances of success. You talk about how there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of big hedge funds. Is it better to

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Speaker 1: be a big hedge fund or a smaller one? Is

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Speaker 1: a goal for everyone to get to one billion? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think in this business the goal for most managers

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Speaker 1: should be to generate returns that they make their clients happy.

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Speaker 1: And uh, there are benefits to size, and there's some

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Speaker 1: drawb exercise. So certainly as as a benefit with larger

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Speaker 1: size and larger resources comes the ability to hire better

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Speaker 1: talent to invest more r and D into strategies. On

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Speaker 1: the other side, if you have too much, if you

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Speaker 1: have too much assets to manage, you start to constrain

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Speaker 1: your investment opportunity set um and that isn't great for

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Speaker 1: investment returns. So there's definitely a delicate balance for any

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Speaker 1: strategy between wanting to achieve a certain amount of growth

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Speaker 1: and then potentially being too big to play the same game.

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Speaker 1: Ted Science is with us. Uh, he is a new

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Speaker 1: book out. So you want to start a hedge fund? Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Yeah, that's that's not what Scott and

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Speaker 1: I are gonna be doing. But we'll be back with

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Speaker 1: him and we'll get some advice just in case we

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Speaker 1: decide we want to change careers. And uh, he gets

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Speaker 1: probably a little too old for either one of us

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Speaker 1: to become a professional athlete or a rock and roll star. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: so you're seeing there's a future for us and managing

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Speaker 1: money huh, maybe the only thing we have left that

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Speaker 1: and being here on Bloomberg surveillance. Right now, the markets

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Speaker 1: are open and the markets are green. How long that

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Speaker 1: will last? We'll see the numbers coming out on the

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Speaker 1: economy not so good today, Defense meeting. Do you want

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Speaker 1: to trade ahead of at S and p up? Right now?

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Speaker 1: By four points? The Dow is up by thirty three

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Speaker 1: tenure note yield two point seven four. That's the thirty rather.

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Speaker 1: I time now to check in with Michael br brought

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Speaker 1: to you by Palisades out Even is at Palisades Outy

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Speaker 1: dot com. Here he is with the latest news headlines.

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Speaker 1: Mike Scarlet, thank you very much. It is primary day

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Speaker 1: and five Northeast states voters were handed the polls in Delaware, Pennsylvania, Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island, and Maryland. A strong day by Democrat Hillary

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Speaker 1: Clinton could put the race out of reach for rival

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Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders. The Vermont Senator admitted to ABC News he

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Speaker 1: does better in open contests. We all handicap. I think

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do flying today. We know what the rules are.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna fight for every vote we can get in Pennsylvania, Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. But in fact, in these states independence camp vote.

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Speaker 1: We do a lot better with independence than Hillary Clinton does.

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Speaker 1: Republican front runner Donald Trump told Fox News hillary Clinton

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Speaker 1: is using the woman car to get elected, saying that

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Speaker 1: she is pandering to the electorate. Trump says he'd loved

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Speaker 1: to see a woman president, but that Clinton is a disaster.

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Speaker 1: Dangerous weather packing tornadoes, and large hale could stretch from

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Speaker 1: southern Oklahoma do southern Nebraska today. A twelve year old

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Speaker 1: girl I registered for a five k road race last

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Speaker 1: Sunday in Rochester, New York, but somehow, Leaiden Does Rodriguez

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Speaker 1: joined the wrong group of runners and instead of running

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Speaker 1: the three point one mile of course, she ran thirteen

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Speaker 1: point one miles. The twelve year old says she realized

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Speaker 1: her mistake halfway through, but decided to finish, and she

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Speaker 1: did Global News twenty four hours a day. I'm Michael Barr.

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Speaker 1: Mike Michael, I don't know, Scarlett, maybe we could do that.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. We give her all the credit in the world. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and don't forget. We need to give another shameless plugged

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Speaker 1: our FED special for tomorrow ye two pm tomorrow on Bloomberg. Well,

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Speaker 1: coming up, we are going to continue our conversation with

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Speaker 1: Ted Sity's about how to start a hedge fund. In

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Speaker 1: his scarlet mentioned We'll give you all the news on

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Speaker 1: the FED tomorrow are FED Special two p m. Bloomboo

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Speaker 1: Business News twenty four hours a day at Bloomberg dot com,

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Speaker 1: the radio plus mobile app, and on your radio. This

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Speaker 1: is a Bloomberg Business Flash and I'm kieron Moscow. This

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Speaker 1: updates brought to you by National Realty Returns on cash

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Speaker 1: and rented real estate find them at n r I

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Speaker 1: a dot net. U s docks are rising him and

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Speaker 1: quarterly results from DuPont to Jet Blue Airways and as

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Speaker 1: investors away Tomorrow's feeder Reserve policy update. But check the

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Speaker 1: markets every fifteen minutes throughout the trading day on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: The S and P five up to tens per cent

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Speaker 1: or five points to twenty ninety two. The Dow Jones

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Speaker 1: Industrial average up to tens per center thirday six points

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Speaker 1: to eighteen thousand thirteen in the Nastacs up two tens

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Speaker 1: per center ten points to forty nine oh six. Pen

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Speaker 1: your treasury little change yield one point nine one percent

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Speaker 1: yield on the two year point eight four percent. Nimex

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Speaker 1: Screwed Oil up one and a half percent, or sixty

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Speaker 1: three cents to forty three twenties seven. A barrel comes

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Speaker 1: Gold is up a quarter percent or three dollars twenty

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Speaker 1: cents at twelve forty three thirty announced the euro a

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Speaker 1: dollar thirteen twenty three the EN one eleven point oh three.

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Speaker 1: DuPont is up about two percent, the company which plans

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Speaker 1: to merge this year with dal Chemical, raising its earnings

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Speaker 1: outlook for twenty sixteen after higher seed prices boosted first

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Speaker 1: quarter sales, while jet Blue is up one point two

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Speaker 1: percent after first quarter profit beat analysts estimates. And a

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Speaker 1: group of companies including Alphabet's, Google, Ford Motor, and Uber

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Speaker 1: Technologies are forming a coalition to advocate for safety regulations

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Speaker 1: for self driving cars and to bring them to American roads.

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Speaker 1: And that's a bloomberg Business Flash, Mic and Scarlett. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much. Karen. I'm Scarlet Food in for Tom

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Speaker 1: Keene here with Michael McKee. This is Bloomberg Surveillance. Our

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Speaker 1: guest right now is Ted City's author of So Want

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Speaker 1: to Start a Hedge Fund? Formerly of Yell Investment Management

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Speaker 1: and Protege Partners and ted Um. Your book, which is

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Speaker 1: a wonderful series of lessons for anyone looking to start

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Speaker 1: their own hedge fund, has a blurb on the back

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Speaker 1: from one William Ackman of Pershing Square Capital where he says,

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Speaker 1: I strongly recommend this book for anyone who's interested in

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Speaker 1: starting a hedge fund. Give us the number one lesson

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Speaker 1: that new hedge fund managers and experienced ones like Bill

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Speaker 1: Lackman uh would learn. What what mistake do they all make?

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Speaker 1: I think if there's one broader mistake that we see

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Speaker 1: in the early stage, it's that very talented investors, talented analyst,

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Speaker 1: talented portfolio managers haven't applied their same business acumen to

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Speaker 1: their own business. So we have a lot of situations

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Speaker 1: where if you think just about the marketing process, which

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Speaker 1: often isn't something that a new manager has been involved with,

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Speaker 1: they don't really appreciate what their audience is looking for.

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Speaker 1: They don't do research to understand that, they don't really

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Speaker 1: understand where they fit into the ecosystem um and as

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Speaker 1: a result of that, they tend not to send the

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Speaker 1: right signals to their potential investors. UM. So that's one

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Speaker 1: general area, and that pervades itself across sort of how

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Speaker 1: they think about their team, how they think about the

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Speaker 1: relationships with their investors. So a lot of broad aspects

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Speaker 1: of the business is something that gets very underappreciated by managers.

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Speaker 1: So how do they fix that? Do they hire a

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Speaker 1: professional business manager marketing manager? Well, one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: I wrote the book is that there aren't a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways for these managers to learn these lessons. Um.

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Speaker 1: You really don't have serial entrepreneurship in the hedge fund

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Speaker 1: space the way you do and say venture capital, because

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Speaker 1: if someone starts a new fund, they never need to

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Speaker 1: start another new fund as long as they're successful. The

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Speaker 1: life expectancy of funds suggests that they do need to start.

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Speaker 1: They might need to get a new job, but you

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Speaker 1: don't often see people who are successful sort of restarting. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I think a common way that that people learn

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Speaker 1: these lessons is by going and talking to a bunch

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Speaker 1: of peers who have done it before and succeeded. And

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Speaker 1: and there is sort of a series of lessons of

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Speaker 1: history that come out, UM, but a lot of it

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Speaker 1: gets learned through experience and through making mistakes. And so

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Speaker 1: I know, you know, when Bill read this and wrote

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Speaker 1: the quote, and a lot of very successful managers like

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Speaker 1: him who have done that for them, it was sort

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Speaker 1: of a trip down memory lane. They all kind of said, Wow,

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Speaker 1: I wish I had seen this before when I was

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Speaker 1: starting a fund. And one of the lessons you talk

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Speaker 1: about in the book is um multi strategy hedge funds

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Speaker 1: and how most multi strategy head funds are not made.

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Speaker 1: They were they're made. Excuse me, they weren't born. What

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Speaker 1: do you mean by that? Well, Um, when when funds

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Speaker 1: get started, generally speaking, what happens is that a manager

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Speaker 1: has excelled in a particular strategy and they rightly pursue

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Speaker 1: that strategy because that's what they know the best. Um.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that's incredibly difficult about forming a

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Speaker 1: hedge fund is actually generating or having the ability to

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Speaker 1: have the flexibility that everyone assumes hedge funds have, so

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Speaker 1: from the outside we we believe that hedge funds are

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Speaker 1: nimble and trade a lot, and have a lot of leverage,

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Speaker 1: and are flexible and make money in all environments. It's

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Speaker 1: not that it's a myth. It's just very hard to

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Speaker 1: manage expectations of investors if you're all over the place,

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Speaker 1: and like anything else, managing expectations is incredibly important. So

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Speaker 1: one of the things I talked about in the book

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Speaker 1: are the challenges If someone wants to have flexibility in

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Speaker 1: their mandate, how might they be able to go about

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Speaker 1: doing that? Or alternatively, if they want to focus on

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Speaker 1: a narrow strategy, what are some of the challenges they

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Speaker 1: might face when that narrow strategy goes in or out

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Speaker 1: of favor. Well, that would be where I would follow

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Speaker 1: up a question, and that is is there anything new

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Speaker 1: under the sun? The words how do I sell you

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Speaker 1: on my services? If I'm doing the same strategy that

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Speaker 1: other people have done, Are there any new strategies? Really? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that there are always something new. There's

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Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of money in the hedge fund industry

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Speaker 1: made and therefore also spent in research and development, probably

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Speaker 1: more than in any other place in investment management that said,

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Speaker 1: there isn't a lot that's new, uh, And I think

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Speaker 1: that's one of the lessons for sort of the startup

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Speaker 1: itge fund managers. They all think what they're doing is

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Speaker 1: brand new and special and very different. But from the

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Speaker 1: allocators perspective, there really isn't um So where you where

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Speaker 1: you generate interest is by doing things right, by generating performance.

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Speaker 1: And also there is an advantage of being smaller as

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Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, and having more flexibility into the breadth

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Speaker 1: of the securities you can trade. Is there an ideal size?

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Speaker 1: I think there is an ideal size for different strategies.

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Speaker 1: It's probably not the same size for different strategies. So

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Speaker 1: to give an extreme example, it probably doesn't make sense

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Speaker 1: to be a ten billion dollar fund focused on small

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Speaker 1: cap equities a right, So if you're investing in small

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Speaker 1: cap US equities a fund that might be right size

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Speaker 1: from a few hundred million maybe to a billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: Whereas if you're a multi strategy firm, you probably need

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Speaker 1: to be quite a lot bigger to attract talent and

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Speaker 1: to be able to play in a lot of different

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Speaker 1: strategies and scale, and when you're attracting investors. Are you

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Speaker 1: looking to go after the most fundamental long term investors,

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Speaker 1: is that the best audience for you, or should you

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Speaker 1: be looking more broadly? Well, everyone would like investors that

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Speaker 1: give them a lot of money, take none other time,

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Speaker 1: and never leave. Those investors generally don't exist, um And

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Speaker 1: there is certainly a perception that the most favorable investors

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Speaker 1: are the ones that own their own capital and have

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Speaker 1: very long duration liabilities. So you could think about endowments

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Speaker 1: and foundations, and that group of investors has tended to

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Speaker 1: be longer term than others. But one of the things

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Speaker 1: you learn over time is that no two investors are alike.

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Speaker 1: No two investors are driven by different factors. And so

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Speaker 1: is a managers going to build a great business just

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Speaker 1: like any business they would invest with. They're better they're

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Speaker 1: better off having a diversified client base than investors all

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Speaker 1: driven by the same set of factors. Well, what are

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Speaker 1: the pitfalls by by just seeking out foundation ones? Are

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Speaker 1: big endowment funds? Yeah, Well, to be sure, a lot

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Speaker 1: of funds have been very successful just seeking out those

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Speaker 1: types of investors. But one example, as we went through

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Speaker 1: the financial crisis in two thousand and eight, endowments and

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Speaker 1: foundations generally speaking, had the same liquidity challenge, where for example,

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Speaker 1: if you had investors that were based in Asia where

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Speaker 1: the currency was stronger, their assets didn't depreciate by as

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Speaker 1: much and they tended to be more stable. Nobody could

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Speaker 1: have predicted that type of difference in in decision making process,

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Speaker 1: but in that situation it was better to have more

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Speaker 1: geographically diverse investors than just investors in the US. UH

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Speaker 1: I got a question for you here. You you used

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Speaker 1: to work at Yale. Yale was the first of the

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Speaker 1: endowments to put money into hedge funds. Is it still

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Speaker 1: a good thing for endowments to do or is it

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Speaker 1: too risky? Well that those are very different questions. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a very good thing for endowments to do.

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Speaker 1: I think catch funds, when selected well, provide a differential

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Speaker 1: return stream and certainly can deliver equity like expected returns.

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Speaker 1: Um risk is completely misunderstood. So a well managed portfolio

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Speaker 1: of hedge funds has quite a bit less risk than

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Speaker 1: just investing in the equity markets over any sort of

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Speaker 1: medium period of time. We I wanted to finish up

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Speaker 1: with the idea that there's a retirement risk here with

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Speaker 1: some folks in the hedge fund industry, right, a lot

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Speaker 1: of founders of big funds are getting near retirement age.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean for allocators, for people who have

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Speaker 1: UH money and pension funds and how that money will

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Speaker 1: be used? Yeah, Well, the vast preponderance of money in

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Speaker 1: the hedge fund space is invested with a relatively small

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Speaker 1: universe of large funds, and those funds tend to have

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Speaker 1: long track records and have been very successful. UM. And

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Speaker 1: the the the entrepreneurs and founders are in many instances

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Speaker 1: in their sixties late fifties, so we are starting to

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Speaker 1: see some of these people retire. Some of the firms.

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Speaker 1: Take an example like Farallon and Tom Steyer left managing

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Speaker 1: the funds, have transition nicely and have a continuing business. Others,

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Speaker 1: for example Regiment in Boston that was founded by Tim Peterson,

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Speaker 1: a former Harvard Management fixed income manager. Two years after

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Speaker 1: he left, the eight or ten billion dollars went to

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Speaker 1: zero as investors fled. And so what we're likely to

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Speaker 1: see is a mix of those two things. UM. Now,

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Speaker 1: if there's only two or three hundred large firms and

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Speaker 1: a significant subset of those don't succeed in in transitioning

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Speaker 1: to another set of talent. We're going to see reallocation

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Speaker 1: of those dollars too smaller funds and maybe to one

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Speaker 1: of your new hedge funds that people reading your book start.

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Speaker 1: It could be that dead side is so you want

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Speaker 1: to start a hedge funds. Thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. I'll give you the best investment here. Scarlett

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Speaker 1: of the Day that I have heard about didn't need

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Speaker 1: a hedge fund to do it. But Tom Hanks says

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Speaker 1: he put a hundred pounds on Lester to win the

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Speaker 1: Premier League at the beginning of the season five thousand

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Speaker 1: to one at the time. Do you believe that? I

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Speaker 1: don't know if he's telling the truth or that, but

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Speaker 1: that's when he is. There's a great article on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg written by our editor in chief of John Michaelthwaite.

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Speaker 1: Unjust that because John Michaelthwaite is a die hard Lesser fan,

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Speaker 1: and because he's in New York, he wasn't able to

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Speaker 1: make any bet on the team going anywhere this year,

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Speaker 1: and he's weeping right. We are produced by Boston ken Folly,

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Speaker 1: who was our global technical director. I would like to

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Speaker 1: Thank Scarlet Food for sitting in with us this hour,

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Speaker 1: Fancy Lacos and Lisa brown Woods for filling in for

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Speaker 1: Tom today,