WEBVTT - Dr. Enric Sala Discusses Why We Need the Wild

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<v Speaker 1>I know you're going to buy some of those most

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<v Speaker 1>Michelle Obama necklaces. I'm going to buy this book for

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<v Speaker 1>my dad. Well, I've already been looking at it online

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<v Speaker 1>because they Curtis sent us a PDF book. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>book I want to get. Um, it's so tell me

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<v Speaker 1>it's irrelevant. It's by a marine ecologist, former professor at

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<v Speaker 1>Script's Institution of Oceanography, Dr Enrique Salah. He is exploring

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<v Speaker 1>residence at National Geographic his book The Nature of Nature,

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<v Speaker 1>Why We Need the Wild, and he joins us on

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<v Speaker 1>the phone from the nation's capital on this Tuesday. Dr Salah,

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<v Speaker 1>it is so nice to have you here with us.

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<v Speaker 1>How are you. I'm great enjoying the hot summer of Washington,

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<v Speaker 1>d C. Man, it's brutal. It is brutal. Tell us

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<v Speaker 1>about this book, um, that you wrote and why you

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<v Speaker 1>did it? Yeah, The Nature of Nature? He is my

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<v Speaker 1>lost letter to the planet. I wanted to communicate what

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<v Speaker 1>I have learned for the last thirty years conducting research

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<v Speaker 1>all around the world. I wanted to tell stories of

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<v Speaker 1>how we figured out what happens when species of plants

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<v Speaker 1>and animals and microps get together and self assemble in

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<v Speaker 1>these wonderful ecosystems that we call forests, wetlands, cast land's,

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<v Speaker 1>coral riffs, and why we need to preserve them for

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<v Speaker 1>our own well being. But also I wanted to make

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<v Speaker 1>the economic case that more protection of nature actually would

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<v Speaker 1>be beneficial to the global economy. We'll talk to us

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<v Speaker 1>about that, because that is I mean, we are, after

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<v Speaker 1>all Bloomberg Business Week, and that in addition to Carrol's

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<v Speaker 1>and my own fascination and and really deep belief in

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<v Speaker 1>in conservation, I think I can say pretty fairly I

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<v Speaker 1>think we're both intrigued by the economic aspect of this.

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<v Speaker 1>Break that down for us, talk some numbers and help

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<v Speaker 1>us understand how you put numbers around this. Okay, So

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<v Speaker 1>I was listening before joining. I was listening to the

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<v Speaker 1>prices of the stock and the percentages. So I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to do something similar. Uh, the natural world contributes with

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and twenty five thrillion dollars in free services to

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<v Speaker 1>the global economy every year. Right, So this is the

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<v Speaker 1>value of the ecosystem services that the natural world provide

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<v Speaker 1>for us. Now, only of the land and seven percent

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<v Speaker 1>of the ocean are protected. Today, forests are being burned

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<v Speaker 1>or a clear cut we are we have lost large

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<v Speaker 1>twis in the ocean. The gloom, the doom and gloom

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<v Speaker 1>list is long. We are basically destroying our life support system.

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<v Speaker 1>So what do we need to do. The science tells

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<v Speaker 1>us that we need to protect at least thirty of

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<v Speaker 1>the planet by if we are to avoid the extinction

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<v Speaker 1>of a million species and the collapse of our life

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<v Speaker 1>support system, and if we want nature to continue helping

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<v Speaker 1>us to absure much of the carbon pollution that we

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<v Speaker 1>expelled into the ammosphere and help us metiate climate change.

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<v Speaker 1>Now the next question as well, Yeah, but how much

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<v Speaker 1>is it going to cost? While we released an economic

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<v Speaker 1>study this this year that suggests that a system of

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<v Speaker 1>protected areas covering thirty of the planet would cost in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of operations and management costs hundred and forty billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars per year. That's by that's less than when the

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<v Speaker 1>world spends today in video games. That's that's just a

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<v Speaker 1>third of the government subsidies two activities than destroy nature

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<v Speaker 1>just the third. So the money is there, public money

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<v Speaker 1>is there? We just use it for for the activities

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<v Speaker 1>that destroy our life support system instead of preserving it.

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<v Speaker 1>And one more thing is that in the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, for every dollar that the government invests in

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<v Speaker 1>our national parks, that dollar generates ten dollars every year

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<v Speaker 1>in economic output that goes to private through private pockets.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's why we need to invest in nature. It's

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<v Speaker 1>it's a good business. Let's get back to our guest,

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<v Speaker 1>Dr Enrique Sala, explorer and residence at National Geographic his

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<v Speaker 1>book Out The Nature of Nature, Why We Need the Wild,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's still with us on the phone in Washington, DC.

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<v Speaker 1>Is also founder of Christine Sees. So, Dr Salah, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to ask you. You know, I feel like we

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<v Speaker 1>are chasing after so many different problems right now, but

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<v Speaker 1>if we don't take care of the environment, none of

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<v Speaker 1>those problems are going to matter, to be quite honest

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<v Speaker 1>with you. So how do we more successfully as a

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<v Speaker 1>as a as a world make sure we're doing the

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<v Speaker 1>right thing, especially when there's so much disconnect between countries

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<v Speaker 1>and individuals. Look, we even in the US just can't

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<v Speaker 1>kind of get it together and have one cohesive strategy

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to the virus. So how do we

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<v Speaker 1>as a globe really do this correctly? Yeah, I would

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<v Speaker 1>think that this pandemics taught us once and for all

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<v Speaker 1>that while we perceived that is this connection and politically

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<v Speaker 1>there must be this connection, we are all connected too.

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<v Speaker 1>Only one person in China to be infected by a

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<v Speaker 1>virus coming from a wild animal to create an outbreak

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<v Speaker 1>that then, thanks to our global life style, spread like

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<v Speaker 1>wildfire across the world. Right the health the well being

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<v Speaker 1>of the richest country in the world, of the richest

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<v Speaker 1>person in the world today is dependent on the health

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<v Speaker 1>and the behavior of the poorest person, even in the

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<v Speaker 1>poorest country. We are all connected. We tamper with nature

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<v Speaker 1>on one side of the planet, and the pandemic has

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<v Speaker 1>shown that the consequences are global. You know, this is

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<v Speaker 1>not something that is going to happen to somebody in

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<v Speaker 1>the future like many people thought about climate change. That

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<v Speaker 1>this is happening right now to everybody on the planet.

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<v Speaker 1>So instead of having to respond to the next pandemic,

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<v Speaker 1>we better invest in ridging the risk of the next pandemic.

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<v Speaker 1>And the numbers are very clear what you would cost

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<v Speaker 1>to prevent it's just a fraction of one percent of

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<v Speaker 1>the global GDP one percent, less than one percent, even

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<v Speaker 1>one percent, that would be a very cheap rent to

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<v Speaker 1>pay for the use of our planet. Right, So I

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<v Speaker 1>know that now governments are worried about taking care of

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<v Speaker 1>people in need and reviving the economy, but also we

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<v Speaker 1>need to start thinking about the causes of the pandemic

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<v Speaker 1>and how to protect nature so she can protect us.

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<v Speaker 1>How can we review the risk of more viruses coming

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<v Speaker 1>on our doorsteps? Are people listening? Are the folks in

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<v Speaker 1>in power starting to to listen to this, because we

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<v Speaker 1>have had a number of wake up calls here as

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<v Speaker 1>you're alluding to. But I wonder how discussions around climate

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<v Speaker 1>fit into that. It's all related, right, you talked about

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<v Speaker 1>all these different crisis. It's it's one and same crisis

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<v Speaker 1>because the COVID pandemic originated because of our broken relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with nature, and climate change only exacerbates the problem of

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<v Speaker 1>loss of nature. It reduces the ability of nature to

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<v Speaker 1>absorb much of our carbon pollution. And also it exacerbates

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<v Speaker 1>that the problems with people with the respiratory problems once

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<v Speaker 1>they get the coronavirus. So so it's it's it's all related.

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<v Speaker 1>And it seems that what the people who are against change.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, some people are thinking, oh, we need to

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<v Speaker 1>go back to normal. Well that's the worst thing we

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<v Speaker 1>can do, because the pandemic has shown that the emperor

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<v Speaker 1>has not closed. We have built our world, the global economy,

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<v Speaker 1>not based on resilience, but based on growth, hyper leveraging,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's not sustainable, that's not resilient. We cannot afford

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<v Speaker 1>another one of these. So we need to build back

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<v Speaker 1>better like plants and animals, the self assembling ecosystems that

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<v Speaker 1>are stable, that are resilient. We need to the same thing.

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<v Speaker 1>That is a lot we can learn from nature, from

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<v Speaker 1>how ecosystems form, so we can rebuild our human ecosystem

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<v Speaker 1>in a way that these we don't work for the money,

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<v Speaker 1>but actually the money works for us. You know what

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<v Speaker 1>you just said, um a few minutes ago about this

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<v Speaker 1>whole idea of you know, we're also connected, and what

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<v Speaker 1>happens to an individual in a in a bad either

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<v Speaker 1>health situation where they're exposed to things you know, ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>kind of exposes all of us. It reminds me of

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<v Speaker 1>an expression my sister often says that you're only as

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<v Speaker 1>happy as a parent as your least unhealthy child, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're only healthy as global citizens as are least unhealthy

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<v Speaker 1>global citizen. Is so having said that are we at

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<v Speaker 1>a point where we are overpopulated in Earth and that's

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<v Speaker 1>part of the problem, or is it just our ways

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<v Speaker 1>that's really the problems problem and that needs to be fixed.

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<v Speaker 1>This is one of the big taboos that nobody wants

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about, right the issue of um over population

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<v Speaker 1>and you have two divided camps. What I can say

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<v Speaker 1>without offending anyone, is that it is the per capita use.

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<v Speaker 1>Right now, with the people we have on the planet,

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<v Speaker 1>we have enough resources to fit everybody today. We have

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<v Speaker 1>enough resources to fit ten million people. The problem is

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<v Speaker 1>that we are wasting a third of the food we

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<v Speaker 1>produce from the farm and the boat to the table.

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<v Speaker 1>And also we are hitting too much animal protein, which

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<v Speaker 1>takes a lot of land, it takes a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>fresh water, and it takes a lot of nature that

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<v Speaker 1>if it were not dedicated to raise livestock, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>it will give many more benefits two people. So we

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<v Speaker 1>could fuel our economy mostly with renewable energies, like some

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<v Speaker 1>countries in Europe have shown, we could for the usually

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<v Speaker 1>enough food for the Tamil people with a plant based valuet,

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<v Speaker 1>eating more plants and less animals, and that would be

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<v Speaker 1>good for our health, for the economy, and for the environment.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, again, we have to fight against the

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<v Speaker 1>special interest which are like the people who are trying

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<v Speaker 1>to make as much more as possible at the casino

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<v Speaker 1>of the Titanic after hitting the icebergs, right right, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we really appreciate the time you spent with us in

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<v Speaker 1>congratulations on your book. Dr Enrique sala is Explorer in Residents,

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<v Speaker 1>the coolest title that I have ever heard for National Geographic.

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<v Speaker 1>He is also the founder of Christine Sites. And the

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<v Speaker 1>book is really an important one Carol and called the

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<v Speaker 1>Nature of Nature, Why we need the wild and and

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<v Speaker 1>really puts a lot in perspective. Here's one line. If

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<v Speaker 1>we continue our way, soon the only large animals left

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<v Speaker 1>on the planet will be us, our domesticated food and

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<v Speaker 1>our pets. And the largest plant communities won't be the

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<v Speaker 1>magnificent tropical emburial for us. But monocultures like the vast

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<v Speaker 1>industrial crop lands that now make up the American Midwest

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<v Speaker 1>is a survivable future for humanity. And as we talk about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what the earth is doing right now, the

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<v Speaker 1>way it is responding to us. We've got hurricanes bearing down. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, We've got heat like we've never seen before,

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<v Speaker 1>record setting temperatures last week in California there in Death Valley.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's sending us a signal. I think that much

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<v Speaker 1>is clear. You and I've talked about that, right, We've

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<v Speaker 1>just you know, whether you want to get all woo

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<v Speaker 1>you know out there. But it does feel like Mother

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<v Speaker 1>Earth is sending us a signal, especially the likelihood that

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to have to be dealing with more and

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<v Speaker 1>more viruses like this if we continue on this path

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<v Speaker 1>that we have. Alright, happy note, Hey, everybody, have a

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<v Speaker 1>great have an awesome time, Pour yourself a glass of wine,

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<v Speaker 1>deal with whatever is coming next,