WEBVTT - WH Counsel Avoided Watergate Mistake That Sank Nixon

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

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<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com Slash Podcasts. From a White

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<v Speaker 1>House Council Domagan plays a prominent role in the Mueller Report.

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<v Speaker 1>He may have saved President Trump from himself in refusing

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<v Speaker 1>to take any step to remove Robert Mueller as Special

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<v Speaker 1>counsel despite directives from the President. Here to tell us

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<v Speaker 1>more is Gregg Farrell, Bloomberg News legal reporter. Greg Would

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<v Speaker 1>you say that McGann played one of the most significant

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<v Speaker 1>roles in the Muller Report Volume two? Um? Yet, Juna,

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<v Speaker 1>I'd say he would. He did. Um. He was at

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<v Speaker 1>the center of the President's many attempts to get rid

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<v Speaker 1>of Muller, And as we read over and over again

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<v Speaker 1>throughout that four page report, he declined didn't follow up.

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<v Speaker 1>Didn't you know, I just didn't follow up in that directive.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think he saved Trump from what would have

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<v Speaker 1>been an action that clearly would have pushed this from

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<v Speaker 1>a judgment call on obstruction into an actionable crime. So

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<v Speaker 1>many legal experts have been crediting the fact that President

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<v Speaker 1>Trump did not testify and wasn't even subpoenaed to a

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<v Speaker 1>legal strategy by his defense team. What role did McGann

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<v Speaker 1>play in that strategy, Well, UMU, as our reporting a

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<v Speaker 1>show going back, UM, I don't think McGann favored that originally,

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<v Speaker 1>but once the plan was set in place and he

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<v Speaker 1>bought into it. Uh, that combined with his own willingness

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<v Speaker 1>to testify quite openly and thoroughly with you know, corroborating

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<v Speaker 1>evidence of contemporaneous notes, ended up you know, being a

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<v Speaker 1>big benefit to the president also, uh in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, basically cooperating. That's uh, rather than forcing you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Mueller to go to court to try to extract either

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<v Speaker 1>you know, uh you have some things that could have

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<v Speaker 1>been questionably claimed as executive privilege. I think it kept

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<v Speaker 1>the presidential powers from being constrained by any negative court rulings.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was another aspect of the strategy, was not

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<v Speaker 1>to go to war. The president's legal team with with Mueller,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm sure they had their own very distinct wanting

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<v Speaker 1>to defend Donald Trump goal. But another after effect of

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<v Speaker 1>that is that presidential powers were not basically defined or

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<v Speaker 1>clipped by any kind of averse Court decision. Will presidential

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<v Speaker 1>powers if the House goes through in any number of

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<v Speaker 1>committees with trying to subpoena the report, Will that take

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<v Speaker 1>into account presidential powers in any respect? No right. And

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<v Speaker 1>initially it seems to be it's going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>battle over getting the report the full court. Nothing but

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<v Speaker 1>the report, if you will, just everything that's including the

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<v Speaker 1>redacted stuff. Um. And and that's step one. That's a

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<v Speaker 1>that's a different battle. Now we're already seeing this is

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<v Speaker 1>a separate event. But we're already seeing today that the

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<v Speaker 1>House committees that have wanted to subpoena the president's basically

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<v Speaker 1>his his tax accountants. Um. You know, the president plans

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<v Speaker 1>to fight that, So that will be a battle. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm not sure if that's going to fall

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<v Speaker 1>under the category of presidential power. I think it would,

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<v Speaker 1>So I think about it like that, which is now

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<v Speaker 1>separate from Mueller, between Congress and the President will go

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<v Speaker 1>down that road of you know, leading to basically to

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<v Speaker 1>the Supreme Court, where the Supreme Court is going to

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<v Speaker 1>have to weigh in on whether or not Congress, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Congressional committee. Uh. Subpoena can basically force the president to

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<v Speaker 1>divulge his personal financial records from his pre presidential time.

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<v Speaker 1>So Greg does does mcgant have the same expansive view

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<v Speaker 1>of president show power that the Attorney General William Barr

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<v Speaker 1>has that unitary executive idea? Yes, that's our reading of this.

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<v Speaker 1>Bar comes came of age during the Reagan administration where

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<v Speaker 1>he worked, and that was a big push. Uh. And

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<v Speaker 1>one of the fellows we quoted, the professor about presidential power.

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<v Speaker 1>He was tutored by ed Meath. Ed Meae explained to

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<v Speaker 1>him how the whole process during the Reagan administration was

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<v Speaker 1>to restore a lot of the powers of the presidency

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<v Speaker 1>that had been stripped away after Watergate. McGann is a

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<v Speaker 1>bit younger by more than a decade, so he did

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<v Speaker 1>not come of age in the Reagan administration. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>clear we used this quote in the story. Uh. It's

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<v Speaker 1>clear that he admired, you know, the direction in which

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<v Speaker 1>they were going, and particularly Judge Robert Bork. And as

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<v Speaker 1>he said, uh, you know, he he aspired to be

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Judge Robert Bork, not Saturday Night Massacre Bork,

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<v Speaker 1>which is an interesting insight into you know these you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the reasons why he didn't um push your head was

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<v Speaker 1>getting rid of moment and uh so that's consistent with that.

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<v Speaker 1>So the report, there's a lot of legal theory in

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<v Speaker 1>the report explaining of legal theories, and they took a

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<v Speaker 1>different view, I believe, of the unitary executive idea than

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<v Speaker 1>than bar and McGann have correct. So the the notion

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<v Speaker 1>um first of all, the notion that a sitting president

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<v Speaker 1>cannot be indicted. Uh, you know, Mueller's team contested that

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<v Speaker 1>is that they did not accept that. They gave a

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<v Speaker 1>very interesting reasoning for why they decided not to pursue

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<v Speaker 1>an obstruction guard charge against the president and to stand

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<v Speaker 1>down in that they did not want to basically put

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<v Speaker 1>the president in a position where he could not access

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<v Speaker 1>the court system and defend himself, as every one of

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<v Speaker 1>us has that right if we're accused of a crime.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was an interesting it was decision making and

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<v Speaker 1>legal theory as to why not to pursue that. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's for or as the unitary executive. Did they take

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<v Speaker 1>that on head on? Um? Not head on? But I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's fair to read between the lines and UH

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<v Speaker 1>that that they do not subscribe to that. Um that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they felt they could have subpoena them, but

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<v Speaker 1>they chose not to. So I think that's that's by

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<v Speaker 1>they avoided a battle over this by not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>by decided not to subpoena to the president and forced

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<v Speaker 1>this testimony. UM. I don't think. I think you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the Mueller team's legal reasoning, uh is not consistent with

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<v Speaker 1>the unitary executive theory. But at the same time, Mueller,

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<v Speaker 1>unlike Jim Comey, I think, was not willing to go

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<v Speaker 1>beyond what the very narrow confines of his scope work.

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<v Speaker 1>He did not want to make himself for his legal

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<v Speaker 1>reasoning the center of the story, if you know what

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I do. Greg, great, great article too, Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much. The article is presidential power gets the

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<v Speaker 1>booster shot, no matter Mueller's view. And that's Greg Barrell.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a Bloomberg News Lee Will reporter. Thanks for listening

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<v Speaker 1>to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can subscribe and listen

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<v Speaker 1>to the show on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud and on Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso. This is Bloomberg