1
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,560
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,440
Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

3
00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,399
Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more

4
00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud

5
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,160
Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com Slash Podcasts. From a White

6
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 1: House Council Domagan plays a prominent role in the Mueller Report.

7
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,640
Speaker 1: He may have saved President Trump from himself in refusing

8
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 1: to take any step to remove Robert Mueller as Special

9
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,159
Speaker 1: counsel despite directives from the President. Here to tell us

10
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,800
Speaker 1: more is Gregg Farrell, Bloomberg News legal reporter. Greg Would

11
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,280
Speaker 1: you say that McGann played one of the most significant

12
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:46,280
Speaker 1: roles in the Muller Report Volume two? Um? Yet, Juna,

13
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,720
Speaker 1: I'd say he would. He did. Um. He was at

14
00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 1: the center of the President's many attempts to get rid

15
00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,280
Speaker 1: of Muller, And as we read over and over again

16
00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:02,319
Speaker 1: throughout that four page report, he declined didn't follow up.

17
00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,280
Speaker 1: Didn't you know, I just didn't follow up in that directive.

18
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,319
Speaker 1: So I think he saved Trump from what would have

19
00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,840
Speaker 1: been an action that clearly would have pushed this from

20
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,680
Speaker 1: a judgment call on obstruction into an actionable crime. So

21
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 1: many legal experts have been crediting the fact that President

22
00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,840
Speaker 1: Trump did not testify and wasn't even subpoenaed to a

23
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,840
Speaker 1: legal strategy by his defense team. What role did McGann

24
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,960
Speaker 1: play in that strategy, Well, UMU, as our reporting a

25
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,800
Speaker 1: show going back, UM, I don't think McGann favored that originally,

26
00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 1: but once the plan was set in place and he

27
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,319
Speaker 1: bought into it. Uh, that combined with his own willingness

28
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,200
Speaker 1: to testify quite openly and thoroughly with you know, corroborating

29
00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,600
Speaker 1: evidence of contemporaneous notes, ended up you know, being a

30
00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 1: big benefit to the president also, uh in terms of

31
00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 1: you know, basically cooperating. That's uh, rather than forcing you know,

32
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,680
Speaker 1: Mueller to go to court to try to extract either

33
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 1: you know, uh you have some things that could have

34
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 1: been questionably claimed as executive privilege. I think it kept

35
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,840
Speaker 1: the presidential powers from being constrained by any negative court rulings.

36
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 1: So that was another aspect of the strategy, was not

37
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,080
Speaker 1: to go to war. The president's legal team with with Mueller,

38
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,440
Speaker 1: and I'm sure they had their own very distinct wanting

39
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,960
Speaker 1: to defend Donald Trump goal. But another after effect of

40
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,920
Speaker 1: that is that presidential powers were not basically defined or

41
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,680
Speaker 1: clipped by any kind of averse Court decision. Will presidential

42
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,959
Speaker 1: powers if the House goes through in any number of

43
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:51,079
Speaker 1: committees with trying to subpoena the report, Will that take

44
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 1: into account presidential powers in any respect? No right. And

45
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,239
Speaker 1: initially it seems to be it's going to be a

46
00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 1: battle over getting the report the full court. Nothing but

47
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 1: the report, if you will, just everything that's including the

48
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,200
Speaker 1: redacted stuff. Um. And and that's step one. That's a

49
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,079
Speaker 1: that's a different battle. Now we're already seeing this is

50
00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,600
Speaker 1: a separate event. But we're already seeing today that the

51
00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:21,080
Speaker 1: House committees that have wanted to subpoena the president's basically

52
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,880
Speaker 1: his his tax accountants. Um. You know, the president plans

53
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 1: to fight that, So that will be a battle. Um.

54
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:29,760
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not sure if that's going to fall

55
00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,040
Speaker 1: under the category of presidential power. I think it would,

56
00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 1: So I think about it like that, which is now

57
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 1: separate from Mueller, between Congress and the President will go

58
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,760
Speaker 1: down that road of you know, leading to basically to

59
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, where the Supreme Court is going to

60
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 1: have to weigh in on whether or not Congress, you know,

61
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,760
Speaker 1: Congressional committee. Uh. Subpoena can basically force the president to

62
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,280
Speaker 1: divulge his personal financial records from his pre presidential time.

63
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,000
Speaker 1: So Greg does does mcgant have the same expansive view

64
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,200
Speaker 1: of president show power that the Attorney General William Barr

65
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:08,600
Speaker 1: has that unitary executive idea? Yes, that's our reading of this.

66
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,560
Speaker 1: Bar comes came of age during the Reagan administration where

67
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 1: he worked, and that was a big push. Uh. And

68
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,960
Speaker 1: one of the fellows we quoted, the professor about presidential power.

69
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,880
Speaker 1: He was tutored by ed Meath. Ed Meae explained to

70
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 1: him how the whole process during the Reagan administration was

71
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,120
Speaker 1: to restore a lot of the powers of the presidency

72
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,400
Speaker 1: that had been stripped away after Watergate. McGann is a

73
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 1: bit younger by more than a decade, so he did

74
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,360
Speaker 1: not come of age in the Reagan administration. But it's

75
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,000
Speaker 1: clear we used this quote in the story. Uh. It's

76
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,400
Speaker 1: clear that he admired, you know, the direction in which

77
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,560
Speaker 1: they were going, and particularly Judge Robert Bork. And as

78
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,120
Speaker 1: he said, uh, you know, he he aspired to be

79
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,000
Speaker 1: you know, Judge Robert Bork, not Saturday Night Massacre Bork,

80
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,560
Speaker 1: which is an interesting insight into you know these you know,

81
00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,720
Speaker 1: the reasons why he didn't um push your head was

82
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 1: getting rid of moment and uh so that's consistent with that.

83
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,240
Speaker 1: So the report, there's a lot of legal theory in

84
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 1: the report explaining of legal theories, and they took a

85
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:18,520
Speaker 1: different view, I believe, of the unitary executive idea than

86
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:24,679
Speaker 1: than bar and McGann have correct. So the the notion

87
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,040
Speaker 1: um first of all, the notion that a sitting president

88
00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,560
Speaker 1: cannot be indicted. Uh, you know, Mueller's team contested that

89
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,040
Speaker 1: is that they did not accept that. They gave a

90
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,040
Speaker 1: very interesting reasoning for why they decided not to pursue

91
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,919
Speaker 1: an obstruction guard charge against the president and to stand

92
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 1: down in that they did not want to basically put

93
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,039
Speaker 1: the president in a position where he could not access

94
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,320
Speaker 1: the court system and defend himself, as every one of

95
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 1: us has that right if we're accused of a crime.

96
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 1: So that was an interesting it was decision making and

97
00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,640
Speaker 1: legal theory as to why not to pursue that. And

98
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,240
Speaker 1: it's for or as the unitary executive. Did they take

99
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:07,320
Speaker 1: that on head on? Um? Not head on? But I

100
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,960
Speaker 1: think it's fair to read between the lines and UH

101
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,240
Speaker 1: that that they do not subscribe to that. Um that

102
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,240
Speaker 1: you know, they felt they could have subpoena them, but

103
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,640
Speaker 1: they chose not to. So I think that's that's by

104
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,640
Speaker 1: they avoided a battle over this by not you know,

105
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,960
Speaker 1: by decided not to subpoena to the president and forced

106
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,039
Speaker 1: this testimony. UM. I don't think. I think you know,

107
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,039
Speaker 1: the Mueller team's legal reasoning, uh is not consistent with

108
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,560
Speaker 1: the unitary executive theory. But at the same time, Mueller,

109
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 1: unlike Jim Comey, I think, was not willing to go

110
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,479
Speaker 1: beyond what the very narrow confines of his scope work.

111
00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,000
Speaker 1: He did not want to make himself for his legal

112
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: reasoning the center of the story, if you know what

113
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,839
Speaker 1: I mean, I do. Greg, great, great article too, Thank

114
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,720
Speaker 1: you so much. The article is presidential power gets the

115
00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,600
Speaker 1: booster shot, no matter Mueller's view. And that's Greg Barrell.

116
00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:04,479
Speaker 1: He's a Bloomberg News Lee Will reporter. Thanks for listening

117
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,799
Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can subscribe and listen

118
00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,400
Speaker 1: to the show on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud and on Bloomberg

119
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 1: dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso. This is Bloomberg