Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly and I'm Carol Masser. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week Podcast. Over the next couple of hours, we're gonna
Speaker 1: bring you news of the week, insights from the magazine
Speaker 1: and more. And Jason, this is a very special issue.
Speaker 1: It's the New Economy Issue, and it's really looking at
Speaker 1: the drivers and the disruptors of the global economy. So
Speaker 1: it really just sets you into all of the trends
Speaker 1: and stories you need to know about. It's a primer
Speaker 1: for a big event coming up later on this month.
Speaker 1: It's the second annual New Economy Forum. It's going to
Speaker 1: be held in Beijing, a gathering of world leaders of
Speaker 1: business leaders really in the business of problem solving. So
Speaker 1: we have all of that to cover this week. Also,
Speaker 1: we have a couple of stories we've got to point out,
Speaker 1: including one on Christine Legarde. She takes the reins this
Speaker 1: week at the European Central Bank. We'll hear what that
Speaker 1: means for the Central Bank. She's going to be a
Speaker 1: different type of head. She brings different skills to that job.
Speaker 1: Exit Druggi Enter Leo Guard couldn't have two different people
Speaker 1: cast in this role in a lot of ways. Eager
Speaker 1: to see what she makes of this, and you bet
Speaker 1: address right, that's very good point. First up, though, we
Speaker 1: speak with the editor of the special issue, Christina Lynn Bled.
Speaker 1: She oversaw all of it really stitched together, what's happening
Speaker 1: in this new economy and how she put it all together.
Speaker 1: I think about this this issue all year long. It's
Speaker 1: it's a great repository of stories that we might not
Speaker 1: be able to do that the rest of the year
Speaker 1: because we have, you know, certain sections, and they don't
Speaker 1: some of these issues don't fit very well within those
Speaker 1: sections well. And speaking of repositories plastics, we're not talking
Speaker 1: about credit cards here. We're talking about actual plastic being
Speaker 1: used to pay for things. Wait what. The Plastic Bank
Speaker 1: is a project that started with this entrepreneur in Vancouver
Speaker 1: and the first one opened in Haiti, and we visited
Speaker 1: one in Bali and Indonesia that opened recently, and basically
Speaker 1: the idea is to make plastic worth something and that
Speaker 1: give people an incentive to not throw it out. So um. Basically,
Speaker 1: we talked to people there who you know, supplement their
Speaker 1: income by collecting plastic and redeeming it at the plastic bank.
Speaker 1: The plastic Bank had IBM built them a sort of
Speaker 1: like e wallet app that like people can use to
Speaker 1: track their income and their savings. They can also use those,
Speaker 1: uh those credits that they have and redeem them at
Speaker 1: certain stores. So for example, somebody can earn like seven
Speaker 1: dollars a month. That does not seem to sound like
Speaker 1: a lot in the United States, but Indonesia is a
Speaker 1: country where GDP per capital is only three thousand something
Speaker 1: dollars a year. How isn't it fascinating? Just kind of
Speaker 1: it sounds like such a simple solution to what's kind
Speaker 1: of a big problem, giving people kind of a financial
Speaker 1: identity as well as solving a pollution problem. That's right,
Speaker 1: because I mean the idea is also that they're almost
Speaker 1: like these countries have a huge number of unbanked people,
Speaker 1: and so this is basically training people in the idea
Speaker 1: of like what are savings? You know, like this, we
Speaker 1: could talk to one guy who used to say, I
Speaker 1: used to go out and spend all the money like
Speaker 1: I got because he used to go to our recycling
Speaker 1: center and redeem the plastic and just get paid, you know,
Speaker 1: right there. But now he sort of has an incentive
Speaker 1: to save it up. Another big story that is in
Speaker 1: the magazine and looking at it from a global perspective,
Speaker 1: is immigration. And what I love about this story there's
Speaker 1: been such a pushback against immigration by so many different
Speaker 1: countries around the world, and yet a lot of countries
Speaker 1: need it because they need workers. Well, this is a
Speaker 1: project that I desperately wanted to do, and this is
Speaker 1: an example of something that would have been sort of
Speaker 1: where do we address this? But I thought we have
Speaker 1: one of those sections of the issue's governance, and I thought,
Speaker 1: what is something that that needs really good policy? And
Speaker 1: it's sort of this movement of people which has become
Speaker 1: such a hot political issue, but it really it's it's
Speaker 1: imperative for certain economies to keep you know, to keep
Speaker 1: immigration alive as a as a you know, it's a necessity, right,
Speaker 1: So it's like, how do you make it work for you?
Speaker 1: So we looked at three different examples, and I think
Speaker 1: Canada is one of the most interesting because it has
Speaker 1: this system that takes in economic migrants, so not political
Speaker 1: asylum seekers or anything else. But so if you're applying
Speaker 1: as an economic migrant Canada, you're going to get scored
Speaker 1: on several criteria. One is your skills, your education, your
Speaker 1: past work, not performance. I'm sorry, you're you're like your resume,
Speaker 1: what kind of jobs you've had. Language, so the national
Speaker 1: languages of Canadas, of French and English, and that score
Speaker 1: is going to determine basically whether you're being you're going
Speaker 1: to be offered permanent residents. And other other countries are
Speaker 1: looking at this program, right, So New Zealand and Australia
Speaker 1: have I've already adopted. Their programs are modeled on on
Speaker 1: Canada's and the US. There's two legislators to Republican legislators
Speaker 1: who have proposed as part of a big reform and immigration.
Speaker 1: And what's cool about that story and people should definitely
Speaker 1: check it out is you sort of give it some
Speaker 1: sweet but then you have some personal examples as well.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about climate, because we talked about it here
Speaker 1: a lot like Bloomberg. There's a whole effort in the
Speaker 1: news room. You look at it through one river, tell
Speaker 1: us about right, So we went to a river that
Speaker 1: runs through several countries in Southern Africa, and we chose
Speaker 1: Southern Africa because it's one of the most vulnerable places
Speaker 1: in terms of um Basically people and governments do not
Speaker 1: have the money to spend in mitigation. So we looked
Speaker 1: at in this river, the Zambezi, which starts in Zambia
Speaker 1: and winds all the way down to Mozambique. The interesting
Speaker 1: thing is in the north the problem has been drought
Speaker 1: and in the south there have been two floods and cyclones.
Speaker 1: So it's basically the story of wacky weather and how
Speaker 1: it plays out for these communities along the river. These
Speaker 1: are important issues, and these are global issues, and you
Speaker 1: guys tackle it so well in the magazine, Christina, thank
Speaker 1: you so much, really appreciated Economics editor Christina Linn blad O.
Speaker 1: We're seeing the economic and really this issue and that's
Speaker 1: Christina Lynn blad You know, she's a frequent guest of ours,
Speaker 1: frequent collaborator in many ways. And this was a tough assignment,
Speaker 1: I think, because how do you really get your arms
Speaker 1: around this new economy right? And she just and she
Speaker 1: looked at so many of the important issues that will
Speaker 1: be facing the global economy in love checking in with her.
Speaker 1: In late November, Bloomberg will host the second annual New
Speaker 1: Economy Forum in Beijing. It was established in by Mike Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: of course, the founder of Bloomberg LP, home to Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week, Bloomberg TV and Radio. And here to tell
Speaker 1: us more is Andy Brown. He is the editorial director
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg New Economy, a frequent guests a weekly guest
Speaker 1: on our daily radio show, Bloomberg Business Week, so we
Speaker 1: get a chance to chat with him all the time.
Speaker 1: But it felt necessary and important to have him set
Speaker 1: the stage for this big event that's coming up. So Andy,
Speaker 1: help us understand why now, why they're and what people
Speaker 1: can expect to say. You know, the big narrative behind
Speaker 1: the New Economy Forum is the reality of a global
Speaker 1: economy in the throes of profound, wrenching and highly disruptive change.
Speaker 1: And by and large, this change is being botched by
Speaker 1: global institutions, national governments, global leaders. And we believe that
Speaker 1: it is crucially important to put businesses in a room
Speaker 1: together with governments to start talking about these issues um
Speaker 1: that are threatening to pull upon the global economy, public
Speaker 1: private partnerships discussions exactly. So the starting point is to
Speaker 1: get the right groups of people together and then to
Speaker 1: curate conversations in a way which will produce results. We
Speaker 1: want productive conversations. How for two it is that you're
Speaker 1: in Beijing. Considering the backdrop, Like Jason, I've been talking
Speaker 1: about this with everything that's been going on, but specifically
Speaker 1: with us in China, but just everybody focused on China
Speaker 1: right now, it's highly symbolic that we're in Asia. We
Speaker 1: launched the event in in Singapore last year. This is
Speaker 1: the second year we're going to be in in Beijing.
Speaker 1: We talk about transitions. Of course, the biggest transition in
Speaker 1: the world today is the shift in wealth and power
Speaker 1: from the globalized global north of the planet, from the
Speaker 1: west of the planet to the east. And so we
Speaker 1: felt it was really important to host this conversation in
Speaker 1: a part of the economy, the global economy, which is
Speaker 1: you know, really going to be the future Asia, Middle East, Africa.
Speaker 1: This is where the global growth is coming from. And
Speaker 1: getting that relationship right between the old economy focused on
Speaker 1: you know, uh, the industrialized North and the emerging economies
Speaker 1: of the global South is critical. We talked about the
Speaker 1: global economy, and yet we have spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time with you talking about decoupling and and that certainly
Speaker 1: is part of the backdrop here. Amid not just the
Speaker 1: ongoing trade discussions, but the day to day decisions that
Speaker 1: companies are making about their supply chains, about where their
Speaker 1: customers are, how they're going to even manufacture their products.
Speaker 1: Help feather that into some of the discussions you plan
Speaker 1: to have. We're looking again, we're looking at transitions, and
Speaker 1: we we we we were stumbling towards global catastrophe in
Speaker 1: a number of areas. I mean climate obviously, but not
Speaker 1: just climate. Um. The global trading system is folding upon.
Speaker 1: Global central banks have run out of ammunition to fight
Speaker 1: the next financial crisis. You mentioned US China. Uh, these
Speaker 1: two countries have failed to invent a new form or
Speaker 1: a new foundation, um for a relationship that once seemed
Speaker 1: so perfectly symmetrical. You know, and with the China that's
Speaker 1: all grown up now and it's all and it's all
Speaker 1: grown up and and and and and this symmetrical relationship.
Speaker 1: You know, America invented, China innovated um. You know, America
Speaker 1: consumed China produced. I mean, it all fit together so well,
Speaker 1: it was complementary, and it is now fundamentally competitive. Both
Speaker 1: countries are going after the same thing, which is dominance
Speaker 1: in the industries of the future, artificial intelligence, quantum computing, robotics.
Speaker 1: The problem is that these areas are all of them
Speaker 1: dual use civilian military, and so the economic competition bleeds
Speaker 1: into security and military competition. They need to figure out
Speaker 1: a new way of managing this competition. This is one
Speaker 1: of the conversations, a critical conversation that we're going to
Speaker 1: be having a new economy. Well, and what's interesting is
Speaker 1: and and maybe this is being too clever by half,
Speaker 1: but it feels like there's difference between being competitive and
Speaker 1: adversarial in a lot of ways. And you do wonder
Speaker 1: from the headlines and the rhetoric, even just what we've
Speaker 1: heard recently from Vice President Mike Pence as to whether
Speaker 1: the tone has shifted in a meaningful and maybe not permanent,
Speaker 1: but certainly secular versus cyclical. Well, you mentioned Mike Pence.
Speaker 1: I mean, he he gave this storming speech, uh this
Speaker 1: time last year, UM where he essentially at labeled China
Speaker 1: an adversary of the United States, and he took China
Speaker 1: to task over everything from human rights to the way
Speaker 1: it rips off um. You know, American I p forces
Speaker 1: technology transfer and so the Chinese read this not inaccurately
Speaker 1: as the first shots in a Cold war. Um. So
Speaker 1: this this relationship, yes, is moving definitely towards an adversarial one.
Speaker 1: And and and and really it would via completely out
Speaker 1: of control. We're right, We're right on the cusp now
Speaker 1: the two sides. And I mean this is this is
Speaker 1: the sort of the proximate background to the New Economy
Speaker 1: Forum where you had this this trade wall which looked
Speaker 1: as though it was going to rage completely out of control,
Speaker 1: damaging both the US economy, the Chinese economy, and the
Speaker 1: whole global economy. I mean, you know, the the global
Speaker 1: economy really is right on the cusp of recession. On
Speaker 1: the IMF keep lowering their their forecasts for for global growth.
Speaker 1: We have a truce that that it seems as though
Speaker 1: we're going to have a truce, a mini trade deal,
Speaker 1: the purpose of which is not to fix all of
Speaker 1: the problems, which can't do, but is to prevent things
Speaker 1: from getting any worse. What's the goal? What do you
Speaker 1: hope that by the end of the New Economy Forum
Speaker 1: that countries companies, what the next steps that they might
Speaker 1: take the substance of our discussion. You see, we we
Speaker 1: um we we look at the global economy in in
Speaker 1: pill is right, so trade, finance, and investment, technology organization inclusion,
Speaker 1: and we look at each of these as a series
Speaker 1: of transitions. So if you take technology, obviously we're moving
Speaker 1: from a four G world to a five G world,
Speaker 1: which will power all the industries of the future. Now
Speaker 1: you know that that is accompanied by huge geopolitical tensions
Speaker 1: between the US and China, focused on the Chinese gear
Speaker 1: company Huawei. UM. So, the the substance of our conversation
Speaker 1: that include including climate, um you know, is is what
Speaker 1: are the institutions, what are the policies, what are the norms, standards,
Speaker 1: rules that that we need to manage this these transitions
Speaker 1: in a more rational and a less adversarial way. That's
Speaker 1: Andy Brown, editorial director of Bloomberg New Economy and Jason
Speaker 1: We're lucky we get to check in with him every
Speaker 1: week on our daily radio show. And you know his
Speaker 1: vantage point having lived overseas in Asia, it's really been
Speaker 1: um so notable and so important, especially when we've been
Speaker 1: talking a lot about US China trade. But this is
Speaker 1: his issue. Well, that's exactly right, And what I love
Speaker 1: about him is when we sort of get stuck ourselves
Speaker 1: trying to understand what are the nuances of Hong Kong protests,
Speaker 1: what are the nuances of this trade war? He really
Speaker 1: delivers for us. This week, Christine Legard takes over as
Speaker 1: the President of the European Central Bank, it's first female president.
Speaker 1: She inherits a few things and also brings with her
Speaker 1: a different skill set than many of her predecessors. Jason,
Speaker 1: this is a really important story because I think it's
Speaker 1: going to set the tone in many ways for what
Speaker 1: the European economy looks like. But also this is one
Speaker 1: of the best known leaders financial leaders in the world.
Speaker 1: Jana Rando joins us from Frankfurt. She's got the story
Speaker 1: on Madame Christine Leguard, So tell us what Madame Legard
Speaker 1: is looking at as she takes this new big job.
Speaker 1: She has a lot of challenges um to tackle. She
Speaker 1: takes over the CB at time when the economy is
Speaker 1: not doing really well. We're in a slowdown. Germany, the
Speaker 1: largest economy in the region, probably is already in recession.
Speaker 1: Inflation is very low um, monetary policy at the ECB
Speaker 1: is very expansionary, and there is quite a big rift
Speaker 1: in the governing council as to UM what could be
Speaker 1: done as to the policies that are needed, uh to
Speaker 1: overcome the situation. There was a big debate over the
Speaker 1: last stimulus push, and she comes in at a time
Speaker 1: when all that needs to be fixed well, and there's
Speaker 1: frustration right among the ECB policymakers about what the e
Speaker 1: c P e c B excuse me, is doing and
Speaker 1: versus what policymakers in the region are doing or should
Speaker 1: I say not doing to help out the economies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: policy makers at the ECB have really stepped up their
Speaker 1: call governments to do their part to use fiscal space,
Speaker 1: to to implement fiscal stimulus where they have room to
Speaker 1: do so, to implement structural reforms to boost growth potential
Speaker 1: in the region. And so far our governments have taken
Speaker 1: very small steps towards that. They have signaled their willingness
Speaker 1: also in Germany, but not nearly enough as some of
Speaker 1: those policymakers would like to see. I think one of
Speaker 1: the things that I'm interested in and I think Jason,
Speaker 1: we've you know, very often here at Bloomberg talked with
Speaker 1: UM Christine Lagarde. She's going to be a different type
Speaker 1: of leader, and her priorities are going to be different,
Speaker 1: and she's also not someone right who's an economist that
Speaker 1: comes to this job. Ja No, And I think we
Speaker 1: talked about her appearance in sixty Minutes here the United
Speaker 1: States a couple weekends ago, and just sort of the
Speaker 1: tone that she's going to set. And if you were
Speaker 1: to cast two people, you couldn't get more different in
Speaker 1: many ways than Mario Draggy and Christine Lagarde. How is
Speaker 1: that stylistic difference going to play through, Jana? I think
Speaker 1: she comes at a time when her skills are desperately needed.
Speaker 1: She's a very good communicator. She knows how to reach
Speaker 1: out to the people, how to talk to the people,
Speaker 1: which is something that Mario Joggy, despite all his economic
Speaker 1: brilliant hasn't really done a lot over the past couple
Speaker 1: of years. So um to come in now and to
Speaker 1: to go out to the public and explain why that
Speaker 1: monetary policy, that expansionary monetary policy that reduces interest on
Speaker 1: savings is needed, that is very important. She's also very
Speaker 1: interested in social changes, in climate change, all those issues
Speaker 1: that are at the heart of the debate at the moment.
Speaker 1: At the moment, so we can expect to hear from
Speaker 1: her on those issues as well, um Mario dragging. On
Speaker 1: the other hand, stellary economist with impeccable training, UM, that
Speaker 1: is something that she doesn't have, but she can rely
Speaker 1: on on the e CB staff and she has a
Speaker 1: lot of experts there as well well. And it's so
Speaker 1: interesting that you talk about her experience and her experience
Speaker 1: versus drugs, and I think two things come to mind.
Speaker 1: One is she's been in the belly of the beast,
Speaker 1: as it were, in Washington, but also at the i
Speaker 1: m F very concerned with developed in economies as well
Speaker 1: as developed economies. Of course, what is her latest job
Speaker 1: her previous job, I should say, going to help her
Speaker 1: bring in terms of her scope of the world. She's
Speaker 1: used to dealing with people from a lot of different
Speaker 1: backgrounds as you mentioned, emerging markets, developed nations, UM, political leaders, economists,
Speaker 1: financial leaders, UM, and and all that experience she brings
Speaker 1: to the c B where you have just policy makers,
Speaker 1: but also from very different backgrounds. If you think about
Speaker 1: UH policy makers from Germany and Swiedmann, who is a
Speaker 1: very traditional conservative official, where you have people from from
Speaker 1: the Southern States, from Greek Italy which prefer generally loser
Speaker 1: monetary policy, have different views on on fiscal policy as well,
Speaker 1: so it's a very diverse crowd at the c B,
Speaker 1: which is why we see some of the problems some
Speaker 1: of the arguments play out in the public. And I
Speaker 1: think she will she will bring her skills to the
Speaker 1: table and we'll be able to forge a compromise there.
Speaker 1: And that's Yana Randall joining us from Frankfurt. I loved
Speaker 1: this story because Christine Lagarde. In many ways, there's not
Speaker 1: many people who are better documented as a world leader
Speaker 1: than Christine Lagarde, because she has been such a prominent
Speaker 1: woman on the financial landscape. Everybody's written about her, talked
Speaker 1: about her. But I really felt like there were some
Speaker 1: new insights here. Yeah. Absolutely, and that's what's great. It's
Speaker 1: not only what she's done professionally, but some insight into
Speaker 1: who she is as a person. And I love that
Speaker 1: she's not trained as an economist, she doesn't have central
Speaker 1: bank experience. She hates Matt, so this is going to
Speaker 1: be a different European Central Bank. Bloomberg will host the
Speaker 1: New Economy Form in a few weeks in Beijing. To
Speaker 1: coincide with that, our Bloomberg Economics team came up with
Speaker 1: the New Economy Drivers and Disruptors report Jason. It takes
Speaker 1: a look at all the new forces that are narrowing
Speaker 1: the path to development, and it's really going to determine
Speaker 1: the winners and losers going forward. I love digging into
Speaker 1: this because there are some nice graphics really help you
Speaker 1: understand the size and scopes, some nice narrative as well.
Speaker 1: Tom Orlick is the chief economist for Bloomberg Economics. He
Speaker 1: joins us from Washington. He helped put all of this together.
Speaker 1: Tom help us understand the framework because that sort of
Speaker 1: sets the stage for all of the conversations going forward.
Speaker 1: The way we think about this is is something like this.
Speaker 1: UM Imagine an economy which is doing everything right. They're innovative,
Speaker 1: they've got a skilled workforce, they have an efficient government. UM. Now,
Speaker 1: imagine there's a huge meteor hurkling towards that country at
Speaker 1: a thousand miles an hour, and when it hits, it's
Speaker 1: going to wipe the country off the map. UM. Well,
Speaker 1: a traditional economic index, a traditional competitiveness index would tell
Speaker 1: you that country is doing just great. They're going to
Speaker 1: be great now. They're great in ten years time, they're
Speaker 1: great in twenty years time. What our Drivers and Disruptors
Speaker 1: report tries to do is to tell you about the
Speaker 1: meteor tell you about the big risks out there in
Speaker 1: the global economy, and which countries are well positioned in
Speaker 1: relation to those risks, and which countries which economies face
Speaker 1: some challenges and the big meteors. We're looking at our protectionism, populism, automation,
Speaker 1: the rise of the robots, digitization, and of course the
Speaker 1: big challenge climate change. What I love time too is
Speaker 1: how comprehensive it is. Do you just mentioned some of
Speaker 1: the big disruptors that you're looking at, but you also
Speaker 1: looked at a hundred fourteen economies essentially excuse me, so
Speaker 1: almost all of the global GDP, So you really looked
Speaker 1: at the world developed and developing. Yeah, that's right. One
Speaker 1: of the striking takeaways is the difference between how well
Speaker 1: positioned advanced economies are and some of the challenges which
Speaker 1: lower and middle income countries lower middle income economy face. Um.
Speaker 1: The big narrative on the global economy in the last
Speaker 1: fifty years has been a story of catching up, first Japan,
Speaker 1: then Korea, then China, catching up to income levels which
Speaker 1: we see in Europe and the US mainly by exporting UM.
Speaker 1: And what our analysis tells us is that with some
Speaker 1: of the disruptive forces sweeping the global economy, things like protectionism,
Speaker 1: things like automation, with robots able to do more and
Speaker 1: more of the low skill, low cost jobs which have
Speaker 1: been an advantage for lower, low cost economies in the past,
Speaker 1: that path to development which low income countries have followed
Speaker 1: is not broken, but it's just going to be much
Speaker 1: harder to follow well. And this is what I love.
Speaker 1: This whole idea of catching up is harder to do
Speaker 1: in this environment today. Yeah. So, I mean, let's think
Speaker 1: about the big forces that have propelled cat up in
Speaker 1: the past. UM. So there's low incomes or low cost
Speaker 1: wages UM. And there's the big open global economy UM.
Speaker 1: And there's policymakers who are willing to make the difficult,
Speaker 1: sometimes painful reforms to align economies for growth UM. And
Speaker 1: across each of those, the disruptive forces that we're tracking
Speaker 1: are going to make life more difficult. You've got robots
Speaker 1: which can do more and more of the tasks which
Speaker 1: people currently do in factories and do them at lower
Speaker 1: and lower cost, so that erodes the low cost advantage
Speaker 1: which was so powerful for for China and Korea and Japan. UM.
Speaker 1: Then we've got protection is M Japan, Korea, China, they
Speaker 1: grew in part because they could tap those free, open
Speaker 1: global markets. UM. But now we've got this decisive swing
Speaker 1: towards protection is UM and so tapping globe markets is
Speaker 1: harder to do. Alright, So Tom, you're gonna be there
Speaker 1: in Beijing. Let's talk about China because it's very prominent
Speaker 1: in your reporting. Clearly one of the world's most important economies.
Speaker 1: This idea of the meteor headed toward Earth, clearly China
Speaker 1: figures very, very importantly in this narrative. How does China
Speaker 1: fit into this? So China is a really interesting story.
Speaker 1: Jason on the traditional drivers of development, China really outperforms. Uh.
Speaker 1: They're the fourth ranked economy in our index. They're investing
Speaker 1: in research and development, they've got some world class infrastructure, UM.
Speaker 1: They've got an increasingly highly skilled workforce, they've got an
Speaker 1: efficient government. So if you look at the traditional drivers
Speaker 1: of development, China has really got a lot of those
Speaker 1: firmly in place. UM. But when we think about the
Speaker 1: disruptive forces which are going to be hitting the global
Speaker 1: econom me in the next ten twenty years, China faces
Speaker 1: some significant challenges. The most obvious one striking right now
Speaker 1: is protectionism. Bad for China's exports, bad for China's capacity
Speaker 1: to learn from foreign technology UM. Looking further forward, China's
Speaker 1: one of the most exposed countries in the world to
Speaker 1: climate change UM. A big population, many of them on
Speaker 1: the coastline, many of them involved in agriculture. There are
Speaker 1: some real risks from climate change to China going forwards,
Speaker 1: and if we dig into the details of what's going
Speaker 1: on in China's society, we also see challenges with relatively
Speaker 1: high levels of inequality, relatively low levels of social mobility UM.
Speaker 1: And if we look around the world UM in other
Speaker 1: countries which have had those problems, that's been a medium
Speaker 1: term challenge for policymakers to address as well. Tom, Let's
Speaker 1: talk about some of the other rankings, because that Jason,
Speaker 1: I'd loved going through the list. I mean, talk about
Speaker 1: the countries that are up at the top. You mentioned
Speaker 1: China's number four, but talked us just quickly about one, two,
Speaker 1: and three. One of the big takeaways from this report
Speaker 1: is that catching up is getting harder to do, and
Speaker 1: we see that reflected in the rankings. Um So, we've
Speaker 1: got advanced economies like some of the some of the
Speaker 1: Northern European economies Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, um some of
Speaker 1: the high performing Asian economies like Singapore, and they do
Speaker 1: really well on the traditional drivers of growth. They also
Speaker 1: score very well on those disruptive forces. They are well
Speaker 1: positioned to deal with the rise of the robots. They've
Speaker 1: got policies in place to help retrain workers. Um as
Speaker 1: automation takes over a larger share of traditional jobs. They're
Speaker 1: well positioned on the digital economy. Their consumers, their businesses,
Speaker 1: their government are all engaged in those digital opportunities. They're
Speaker 1: exposed to protection is M, but they don't have that
Speaker 1: really high exposure to protection is M that we see
Speaker 1: in some of the Asian exporters and some of the
Speaker 1: advanced economies which are breaking their trade ties with the
Speaker 1: rest of the world. Well. And it is so interesting
Speaker 1: to look at the top five just running through them. Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, China, Australia,
Speaker 1: those are the top five when it comes to the drivers,
Speaker 1: and they do have this really interesting balance, as you say,
Speaker 1: and when you think about the five most important economies
Speaker 1: in some ways. Some are there, some aren't. These aren't
Speaker 1: obvious choices, and that's one of the really provocative things
Speaker 1: I think about this list. Ultimately. Yeah, So I think
Speaker 1: if you look at the if you look at our
Speaker 1: drivers of if you look at our rankings on the
Speaker 1: drivers of growth, I think it looks fairly. I think
Speaker 1: it's going to be in line with people's intuitions about
Speaker 1: which countries are poised for success and which countries face
Speaker 1: some challenges. I think where a lot of the controversy,
Speaker 1: where a lot of the interest, where some of the
Speaker 1: provocation comes from, is in how we're looking at those
Speaker 1: disruptive forces and how those disruptive forces are going to
Speaker 1: be upsetting the pattern of winners and losers. Well, and
Speaker 1: I just would say, so, China's in fourth place, the
Speaker 1: UK is in this in sixth place, Germany is in
Speaker 1: twelveth place. United States is in seventeenth place. Just to
Speaker 1: sum up, where's the U s and all of this
Speaker 1: in terms of drivers versus disruptors, I mean, the US
Speaker 1: is engaged in a trade war against China, a trade
Speaker 1: war with China UM, and the motivation for that trade
Speaker 1: war UM is partly to determine who's going to be
Speaker 1: holding the keys to the global economy in the twenty
Speaker 1: one century, who's going to be the most competitive, who's
Speaker 1: going to have the most advanced technologies? Um. And part
Speaker 1: of the motivation on the U S side is the
Speaker 1: concern that China is not playing by the global rules. Um,
Speaker 1: they're not protecting intellectual property. UM, they're forcing Western firms
Speaker 1: to hand over technology. And if we have a trade
Speaker 1: war and we win that trade war, um, then those
Speaker 1: problems will be solved and America will be number one. Well,
Speaker 1: what our report is telling us is well, that's all
Speaker 1: well and good, um, but there's also a bunch of
Speaker 1: things you need to do at home to make sure
Speaker 1: you're competitive for the future, things like really making sure
Speaker 1: you've got world class infrastructure, really making sure you're making
Speaker 1: significant investments in research and development to retain that competitive
Speaker 1: technology edge. That's Tom or Like, he's our chief economist
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Economics. This was a really fun conversation because they
Speaker 1: looked at the entire global economy very specific factors and
Speaker 1: tried to figure out where every nation developed or developing
Speaker 1: stand when it comes to drivers helping them out or
Speaker 1: disruptors that might hold them back. Well, and it's a
Speaker 1: different lens in many ways, and not surprisingly, it gives
Speaker 1: you a different result. And I really liked what he
Speaker 1: said about China gets role in the global economy. It's
Speaker 1: obviously important, but when you think about it in this context,
Speaker 1: I feel like you look at China a little bit differently.
Speaker 1: So it's clear that global economies, they're watching the political
Speaker 1: scene around the world. We've got something that will help them.
Speaker 1: It's this week's New Economy issue. Let's get into it
Speaker 1: with editor Joe Weber here to tell us all about it.
Speaker 1: It is a great issue and it's another must read
Speaker 1: I feel like for the world at large. Yeah, a
Speaker 1: lot of this. You know, it's really easy to talk
Speaker 1: about the news and the short term stuff, but there
Speaker 1: are bigger, bigger issues that are really going to define
Speaker 1: what the future looks like. And that's sort of what
Speaker 1: the New Economy Issue is really about. The world's growth
Speaker 1: is really going to come from the emerging economies rather
Speaker 1: than developed ones. That's something that Hank Paulson in and
Speaker 1: Row really hits on, like the problems that that this
Speaker 1: issue is really devoted to and the solutions that we
Speaker 1: hope to really identify at the Forum in November are
Speaker 1: really geared towards solving problems in the emerging markets, and
Speaker 1: so how do you break that down in some ways
Speaker 1: into something that is candidly sort of digestible. Had a
Speaker 1: lot of help on this one, including from Bloomberg Economics. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we actually divide the book up into chapters, and
Speaker 1: it actually feels more like a book almost than any
Speaker 1: other issue that we do. And those chapters aligned with
Speaker 1: the pillars of the forum, so things like trade and that.
Speaker 1: That allows us to talk to Tom Orlick of Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Economics who came up with this Drivers and Disrupters idea
Speaker 1: to really like rank countries based on their ability to
Speaker 1: either disrupt or drive engine the engine the global engine
Speaker 1: of growth, right, And it's interesting. There's some interesting takeaways there,
Speaker 1: like the US isn't one that really rises to the
Speaker 1: cream like some other places, So that's interesting. We have
Speaker 1: talking about that that the kind of the top two,
Speaker 1: top one, two, three or four names you might find
Speaker 1: a little bit surprising on that. I'm gonna save it
Speaker 1: for the issue. Yeah, do that. Another one is inclusion, right,
Speaker 1: and so there's different ways that we can talk about that,
Speaker 1: but one that we chose to look at what women
Speaker 1: in the workforce via fertility around the world. We're actually
Speaker 1: watching fertility rate, the global fertility rate. Calm down, we're
Speaker 1: not making enough babies actually, so we actually pulled out
Speaker 1: some case studies via data and also women in various
Speaker 1: countries to talk about why don't you have more babies?
Speaker 1: And that impacts their ability to to work with their
Speaker 1: family life's like, and then that translates into economic growth
Speaker 1: because if you're not having future generations behind you, we
Speaker 1: just simply don't have enough people. Some really big issues,
Speaker 1: long term issues, tackled in this very special issue of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week Will Webb, thank you so much. Disruption
Speaker 1: and transportation as another factor to consider, a backlash against
Speaker 1: cars and a technology whose time may have come and gone.
Speaker 1: Very provocative, fun it is, and you know, we love
Speaker 1: talking about transportation and cities, all the implications very close
Speaker 1: to home here at Bloomberg. Max Chafkin, features editor for
Speaker 1: the magazine, is here with us. Super Blocks. Didn't know
Speaker 1: that was the thing, but it makes sense when you
Speaker 1: start to explain it. So explain it's so Superblocks. Actually,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a very old thing. Um, if you
Speaker 1: look at kind of fifties style public housing, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: basically a lot of the sort of urban thought that
Speaker 1: was going on, you know, in the forties and fifties.
Speaker 1: This idea of building these giant towers with like big
Speaker 1: roads around them, and the idea would be that people
Speaker 1: could sort of walk within these blocks. Super blocks considered
Speaker 1: a good thing. Uh. Yeah, And and and people have
Speaker 1: kind of moved away from that. We've we've much we've
Speaker 1: moved to these cities with little grids and and all
Speaker 1: sorts of stuff. Um. The story that we have in
Speaker 1: this week's issue is about a town in northern Spain
Speaker 1: called Victoria. Guest guess days, I hope I'm saying that right, Um.
Speaker 1: And it's um. It's basically a town where they just
Speaker 1: started radically getting rid of streets with cars. The town
Speaker 1: has created sixty three of these super blocks, Um. And
Speaker 1: these are streets where basically cars are not allowed. The
Speaker 1: only way to have a car is if you live
Speaker 1: on the street, or if you're a business and you're
Speaker 1: getting delivery and the cars can only go ten kilometers
Speaker 1: an hour, which is yeah, six miles an hour. It's
Speaker 1: a jog. I mean, it's or not a jog. It's
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's a it's it's a sort
Speaker 1: of pedestrian scale pace and everything else, you know, as
Speaker 1: the writer West and Zena describes, you know, very poetically
Speaker 1: in the story, is basically cyclists, pedestrians, children, you have,
Speaker 1: you know, Toddler's running about. It's it's it's really a
Speaker 1: kind of like car free paradise, at least if that's
Speaker 1: your kind of paradise. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Tell us
Speaker 1: about the guy who's behind it, right, because he's really
Speaker 1: led the charge here. Yeah, Salvador Rueda, who's a Spanish
Speaker 1: urban planner, and he has done these kind of superblock
Speaker 1: conversions in a bunch of cities in Spain, including Barcelona. Uh.
Speaker 1: And also he's he's a little bit of work in
Speaker 1: South America in Quito, Ecuador, as well as Buenos Areas.
Speaker 1: There's even a plan uh in in Washington to Seattle, sorry,
Speaker 1: to bring uh super blocks there, although that's still kind
Speaker 1: of in discussions. The interesting thing is is Washington, Washington,
Speaker 1: in Seattle, It's okay. The interesting thing about this is
Speaker 1: he's had a lot more success in Spain, I mean
Speaker 1: especially in this town Victoria Guestez, which he calls his laboratory.
Speaker 1: This is like proof that this concept can work. But
Speaker 1: is it just prime in terms of the way that
Speaker 1: that kind of that locale is set up. I think
Speaker 1: it has to do. It's it's partly cultural. And you know,
Speaker 1: these cities in Spain are very small. They they are
Speaker 1: very much pedestrian oriented. You know, Europe, most of these
Speaker 1: cities were laid out pre automobile. You go to place
Speaker 1: like Buenos Areas, which you know, obviously the city was
Speaker 1: laid out before the car, but that's a city that
Speaker 1: is way more dependent on cars, you know, much like
Speaker 1: an American city. And and there it's been a lot
Speaker 1: more controversial. You've had sort of complaints that they've they've
Speaker 1: managed to pull it off in a few neighborhoods, but
Speaker 1: not in the kind of scale that they've been able
Speaker 1: to do in Spain. Um. What's what's really provocative here
Speaker 1: to me anyway, is just that this does not cost
Speaker 1: a lot of money. As as Rueta points out in
Speaker 1: the story, I mean, you don't really have to. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, you're not demolishing anything, You're you're basically just
Speaker 1: telling people they can't drive their cars on the street.
Speaker 1: So it's it's more it's almost like a cultural solution
Speaker 1: to the problem of climate change and also traffic deaths.
Speaker 1: And so what's the downside? You know it obviously folks
Speaker 1: are relying on cars. You think about a lot of
Speaker 1: American cities where the commutes have just gotten bigger and
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger. People are trying to move into cities,
Speaker 1: and yet cities in many cases aren't affordable. So how
Speaker 1: do all those things balance out? Yeah, I mean there
Speaker 1: there are a couple of key downsides. One downside is
Speaker 1: maybe you just don't want to live like this. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, having a car is really convenient. It's a
Speaker 1: big part of how Uh in a lot of parts
Speaker 1: of the world, you know, sort of people relate to
Speaker 1: their surroundings um, and then there's this sort of gent
Speaker 1: racation issue. You start kind of creating these like beautiful
Speaker 1: urban islands, and we've seen this in lots of places
Speaker 1: including the US, and and real estate prices go up
Speaker 1: and then the people who live there are you know,
Speaker 1: forced to leave. Uh. The sort of Spanish solution to
Speaker 1: that is just to put lots of superblocks everywhere. So
Speaker 1: it won't you know, affect the real estate prices too much.
Speaker 1: Everybody's going to have these things, at least in this
Speaker 1: in this one city in Spain. What does it do
Speaker 1: though on society and what does it do in terms
Speaker 1: of the environment. Yeah, so, uh, the the the Spanish
Speaker 1: cities that have done this have reported you know, amazing impacts.
Speaker 1: We're talking, you know, I think we have the number
Speaker 1: in the story. I believe it's of the cars on
Speaker 1: the road in Vittrria. Guests are are gone now, the
Speaker 1: carbon emissions of the city something like down about and
Speaker 1: you have a huge percentage of population walking as their
Speaker 1: main uh, you know form of transportation, another fifteen percent biking.
Speaker 1: So that's like sixty of people are using a non
Speaker 1: car you know, method of transport, which is you know,
Speaker 1: it's pretty amazing. And when you consider both the sort
Speaker 1: of carbon emissions of you know, caused you know, automobiles,
Speaker 1: but also yeah, the traffic deaths, it's it's it's potentially
Speaker 1: as a huge impact well and presumably the knock on
Speaker 1: effect of if people are walking, that's good for their health,
Speaker 1: and you know, they're all these sort of benefits that
Speaker 1: come on that may be harder to measure, at least
Speaker 1: in the near term, but eventually will be much clearer
Speaker 1: as time goes on. Yeah. I have to say, what's
Speaker 1: interesting though, you see a little bit of that New York, right.
Speaker 1: I have a town in a street in our town
Speaker 1: that's been shut down, and you know, so you're slowly
Speaker 1: seeing it kind of creep around the world. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's definitely a cultural thing, and you alluded to it.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've over the last twenty years there's been
Speaker 1: this kind of renewed interest in downtowns, which comes with
Speaker 1: an interest in walking. Um. One other thing about this
Speaker 1: Spanish town that's pretty interesting is it's a huge car town.
Speaker 1: It's it's the second of it. I believe it's the
Speaker 1: second biggest car manufacturing city in Spain. There's a Mercedes
Speaker 1: factory in town, there's a Michelin plant in town. So
Speaker 1: this is a city where uh, cars are really part
Speaker 1: of the at least the business culture and and the
Speaker 1: and their sense of identity. And even so it's embraced
Speaker 1: this kind of solution m as West rights in the story.
Speaker 1: You know, even the taxi drivers union is in favor
Speaker 1: of this, and you sort of imagine, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're if you're driving a car for a living, this
Speaker 1: is not going to be something you're into. But but
Speaker 1: they managed to really get you know, bipartisans support both
Speaker 1: from the unions and kind of the center right party,
Speaker 1: and he's building more right around the world. He's trying
Speaker 1: and I will see if the you know, if people
Speaker 1: are willing to go for it. That's Max chaff and
Speaker 1: he's our features editor and he took us through the
Speaker 1: world super blocks. You know, we see a little bit
Speaker 1: of this, I feel like in New York City where
Speaker 1: streets are being closed down and they're basically for pedestrian traffic.
Speaker 1: But if you look at some cities around the world,
Speaker 1: it's not just a few blocks, it's a much larger footprint. Well,
Speaker 1: and you do wonder, having read this and talked to
Speaker 1: Max about it, whether this is something that's going to
Speaker 1: catch on as we go forward. Some of these experiments
Speaker 1: have delivered some surprising results, so interesting to see where
Speaker 1: it goes from here. Check out this week's issue of
Speaker 1: the magazine. You'll find an interview with the co founder
Speaker 1: of Emphasis, who returned to his company two years ago
Speaker 1: following a scandal and firing of Evan CEO. Right, this
Speaker 1: is a guy very much at the center, as you say,
Speaker 1: of arguably one of the most important companies, certainly in India,
Speaker 1: and part of the conversation is about expanding that reach,
Speaker 1: both for his company and beyond. We're talking about Nandan
Speaker 1: Nila Khannie. Jeff Muscus is here, the technology editor for
Speaker 1: Bloomberg business Week. This guy's pretty provocative when it comes
Speaker 1: to his vision for the world. Tell us about him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's He co founded Infocist in the early eighties and
Speaker 1: has been with the company in a number of top
Speaker 1: roles for much of that time, including as CEO for
Speaker 1: much of the early Oh it's before a two thousand
Speaker 1: nine when he left to join the Indian government in
Speaker 1: a newly created position to help develop at her this
Speaker 1: sort of national biometric I D program that's proven highly
Speaker 1: controversial for reasons you might imagine, Well, you kind of
Speaker 1: like skimmed over that. That's a big deal, right, I
Speaker 1: mean that he created that was big in terms of
Speaker 1: its impact on India. But you're right, it's very controversial. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the the this kind of biometric data slash national I
Speaker 1: D card program is now used as no kind of
Speaker 1: points out in the interview with our reporters or the
Speaker 1: rye by you know some one point to billion Indians
Speaker 1: for things including social security payments and uh and baseline
Speaker 1: I d in all kinds of ways that UM didn't
Speaker 1: really exist in a stratified way in India a decade ago. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, but that's that's proven uh, you know, controversial
Speaker 1: among privacy advocates because the system has proven relatively right
Speaker 1: for abuse. It's easier to fool than you might think.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh and yeah, there's their ongoing concerns about
Speaker 1: UM the degree to which people's data, including their biometric data,
Speaker 1: might be used for various purposes. Well, and between that
Speaker 1: job and working on that and you know, now his
Speaker 1: day job and the company he founded. Emphasis really takes
Speaker 1: us into the heart of arguably some of the biggest
Speaker 1: issues of our time as it relates to as you say, privacy,
Speaker 1: as it relates to technology and its role in our lives.
Speaker 1: What did he have to say about things like, for instance,
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence because that plays into this as well. Sure, UM, yeah, AI,
Speaker 1: along with big data in general, which sort of the
Speaker 1: our our buzzword for AI before we start using AI.
Speaker 1: UM was the you know, the big differentiator in his
Speaker 1: mind between various companies in the I T outsourcing space
Speaker 1: like Infosis, as they've tried to approach the big cloud
Speaker 1: companies and the other big industry leaders around the world
Speaker 1: who tried to sort of differentiate themselves by figuring out
Speaker 1: as much about their customers as possible. So that also
Speaker 1: raises privacy issues on the other end, as you might
Speaker 1: imagine that. Uh, you know, the differentiator here in the
Speaker 1: industry's mind is how much more they can figure out
Speaker 1: about a given companies customer base, for example, then they
Speaker 1: might have been able to a decade ago, um, but
Speaker 1: without particularly going into a ton of detail about how
Speaker 1: they get that information. Why did you want to talk
Speaker 1: to him? No? I mean it's like I think about
Speaker 1: you go back to when this company was first great.
Speaker 1: I mean, we used to talk about emphasis a lot.
Speaker 1: I feel like you don't talk about it as much anymore.
Speaker 1: And I do understand there was a scandal couple of
Speaker 1: years ago. I mean, but why, I mean he's got
Speaker 1: a back page to the magazine. Why him? And why him? Now? Well,
Speaker 1: he's been a pretty central figure in India's text base
Speaker 1: for you know, much of the past half century and
Speaker 1: all the more so now that he's you know, played
Speaker 1: a leading role in the development of this program and
Speaker 1: then sort of gone back into the corporate world to
Speaker 1: try and and and write the shift of varying degrees
Speaker 1: at the company he helped start. But you're right that
Speaker 1: inmphasis like the other leading I t outsourcers in India.
Speaker 1: I think it was a much bigger part of the
Speaker 1: conversation even just a few years ago when the question,
Speaker 1: a lot of the question is about America's text seeing
Speaker 1: revolved around H one bs and the degree to which
Speaker 1: perhaps UH immigrant labor was being used to buy big
Speaker 1: tech companies in America to keep prices or wages artificially
Speaker 1: lower than they might otherwise be. Um. You know, in
Speaker 1: the Trump era, the conversation is shifted as uh you know,
Speaker 1: the reministration has made good on on some of its
Speaker 1: it starts to crack down in H one b use
Speaker 1: in general, but you know, it's also shifting the conversation
Speaker 1: around UH immigration and wages and of course big tech
Speaker 1: as well. As you know, the fallout from the election
Speaker 1: has put the industry on much different focus. And that's
Speaker 1: Jeff Muscus. He had some important context about that conversation
Speaker 1: with EMPHASIS co founder non Done Nila Khani. And one
Speaker 1: of the things I really appreciated about that was the
Speaker 1: importance of that business, that industry in India, but also
Speaker 1: India's coming influence in a lot of ways. Where that
Speaker 1: country he goes next is going to have a profound
Speaker 1: impact on the global economy. Right. We talked about the
Speaker 1: startup scene and where it's going. So really good to
Speaker 1: get his insight. Susan Lyne's career has spanned publishing, multimedia,
Speaker 1: and venture capitalism. She's the former president of ABC Entertainment.
Speaker 1: She oversaw a O L dot com Jason. She has
Speaker 1: done so much now she is in the world a
Speaker 1: VC all in on that. She's president and founder at
Speaker 1: BBG Venture. So we had a lot to talk about.
Speaker 1: It's a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. Let's listen.
Speaker 1: In your career has spanned so many different industries and multimedia,
Speaker 1: I think about publishing, venture capitalism. I want to ask you,
Speaker 1: there's so much going on in these worlds. What is
Speaker 1: it that you find kind of interesting in terms of
Speaker 1: disruptive trends right now? Oh? Wow? Um, I know it's broad,
Speaker 1: but I just curious there are so many things, and
Speaker 1: they they fall into a couple of categories. So I
Speaker 1: still think that there are a lot of industries that
Speaker 1: are that have not been disrupted. Actually, healthcare is probably
Speaker 1: the biggest opportunity that exists right now. Uh, there are
Speaker 1: still so many consumer unfriendly parts of of the health
Speaker 1: care journey UM, and everybody, every single group at the
Speaker 1: table believes that we need to have new solutions, whether
Speaker 1: it's insurers or it's it's health care providers or its
Speaker 1: consumers UM. So that's always a good moment to be
Speaker 1: be investing. And we're actually seeing a lot of I
Speaker 1: think more interesting models for delivery of either mental health
Speaker 1: care or or physical health care UM that will need
Speaker 1: to scale to prove themselves out, but could be very
Speaker 1: viable over time. Well, and I looked at your investment
Speaker 1: more friendly. I mean, since then, you guys are in
Speaker 1: a lot of different areas. Are in retail, UM, you're
Speaker 1: in you know, property, You're in some any different areas
Speaker 1: in terms of healthcare. What are some of the new
Speaker 1: models that you're seeing. What are some of the interesting
Speaker 1: opportunities that you find that you want to commit money. Well,
Speaker 1: we've made a couple of investments. We're in a company
Speaker 1: called spring Health that takes over healthcare coverage for employees.
Speaker 1: So they sell to companies. They say, let us do
Speaker 1: this for you. We will be able to get your
Speaker 1: employees to the right kind of care faster than you
Speaker 1: could possibly do it. And they do that using algorithms.
Speaker 1: They have a great database UM and they can both
Speaker 1: save companies money and at the same time they can
Speaker 1: get employees the care they need so much faster that uh,
Speaker 1: it's a real bonus for the company culture. How difficult
Speaker 1: do you think that it is to kind of untangle
Speaker 1: the existing healthcare infrastructure. I think this is such a
Speaker 1: tough one, and I think it's why you're not seeing it.
Speaker 1: One of the earlier cases of just eruption. So how
Speaker 1: how much you know the traditional healthcare companies that we
Speaker 1: have today will be ultimately five years, ten years, they're
Speaker 1: not going to be the major players because there's companies
Speaker 1: like the ones that you're investing in UM under the
Speaker 1: I think it completely depends on which part of this
Speaker 1: ye're talking about. So I think the insurers are probably
Speaker 1: not going to change in the short term, but I
Speaker 1: think they are looking for more cost effective and more
Speaker 1: successful solutions to a lot of different issues for consumers. UM.
Speaker 1: So they're actually aligned with with all of us, right,
Speaker 1: if you can find the right product for them, if
Speaker 1: you can find something that you can show them you're
Speaker 1: spending X, now we can do this for why and
Speaker 1: you're going to save money. So I think there are
Speaker 1: there are definitely alliances to be made. UM. Yeah, of
Speaker 1: the biggest issues has been how slow it is to
Speaker 1: get change at UM at large health care institutions, whether
Speaker 1: their hospitals or their UM but there are far fewer
Speaker 1: providers and so and by that I mean insurance providers.
Speaker 1: UH that it's probably easier if you can find an
Speaker 1: alliance with them. Now, there are also a lot of
Speaker 1: companies that are starting clinics and new models for delivery
Speaker 1: of either women's health care or um or prenatal and
Speaker 1: postpartum care. They're taking some piece of this and they're
Speaker 1: saying we can do this better UM and so I
Speaker 1: think it will take time for those to scale up.
Speaker 1: But as startups, a lot of them are doing very
Speaker 1: well right and when it starts to show U impact
Speaker 1: on bottom lines or something, it's very easy for them
Speaker 1: to ramp up. I have to ask you about the
Speaker 1: media world. I feel like there's so much going on.
Speaker 1: You're the former president of ABC Entertainment, streaming Wars already
Speaker 1: laying it out in Business Week magazine. This is going
Speaker 1: to be one of the big themes to watch. Um,
Speaker 1: who who will you be watching? There's Disney plus, there's
Speaker 1: Apple plus, Comcasts got Peacock, HBO has got a new entry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what do you think it's interesting? Well, I think Disney
Speaker 1: is really interesting. Now I'm I'm probably biased because I
Speaker 1: was a little bit company for a decade, but I
Speaker 1: do think they have unique assets and that's one of
Speaker 1: the things either has done that I think it's been
Speaker 1: incredibly smart. Um. If you look at the movie business
Speaker 1: that Disney has because of the companies that have acquired,
Speaker 1: because of Pixar, because of Marvel, m, because of the
Speaker 1: Star Wars franchise. Uh, they have you know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say more than half of the billion dollar phil homes
Speaker 1: that have come out in the last five years. Um,
Speaker 1: you want to see it exactly and again exactly? Um?
Speaker 1: And who who know the franchise right? So so they
Speaker 1: don't have to hear a long description of it before
Speaker 1: they know, Hey, I want to I want to watch
Speaker 1: this um and now with Fox they have an even
Speaker 1: bigger library, so I think they're going to be hard
Speaker 1: to beat among the new entrants, and they're coming out
Speaker 1: pretty inexpectively. I think it's six so it's easy to
Speaker 1: kind of tack that on absolutely. Um, it's cable dead
Speaker 1: or getting slowly towards that. I mean, there's still like
Speaker 1: eighty million US cable subscribers. But what what happens? You know?
Speaker 1: I think it's going to take time. But I look
Speaker 1: at my children and they are not cable customers. So
Speaker 1: this is largely a generational shift. I think that, uh,
Speaker 1: that people who have grown up with digital assets and
Speaker 1: to understand how to use Apple TV and how to
Speaker 1: use Roku and can put together their own you know
Speaker 1: what would have been a cable assortment, right, they can
Speaker 1: do that themselves for a lot less money. Do their
Speaker 1: own bundling exactly, although some say that you could ultimately
Speaker 1: see a bundling of streaming services down the road. Do
Speaker 1: you think that. I think that's very possible. Yeah, why not? Right?
Speaker 1: So what about building a brand in this environment? You
Speaker 1: did it with Lifetime, You did so well. It was
Speaker 1: a very clear message ramped up so successful. Can we
Speaker 1: do that again today on television in the in the
Speaker 1: broadcast or or or cable world, I think you can.
Speaker 1: I think that tougher the Yes, it's definitely tougher. But
Speaker 1: it all comes down to programming. To be honest, if
Speaker 1: you look at how every single one of the cable
Speaker 1: networks became six sessible, it's because they had a single
Speaker 1: show that defined what they were about, right um. For
Speaker 1: for HBO, it was the Sopranos, for um uh, for FX,
Speaker 1: it was Madmen, um for uh, for show Time. You
Speaker 1: go through all of them, you knew what you were getting,
Speaker 1: you did. And then once they realized they had an
Speaker 1: audience for that, right, they could begin to develop shows
Speaker 1: that had a similar feel or were for similar group
Speaker 1: of people. And the great thing about cable always was
Speaker 1: that it was not about the number of people watching.
Speaker 1: It was about the passion of the people who were watching.
Speaker 1: So if they really, really really loved to show, that
Speaker 1: meant more than having an extra million people viewing it.
Speaker 1: As it made it that much harder for a cable
Speaker 1: carrier to kick them off, right, because they have a
Speaker 1: revolution right right. And I also do think like in
Speaker 1: today's social media world, where there's so much data collection,
Speaker 1: you had a very clear identity. If you're trying to
Speaker 1: market it two advertisers, right, you knew exactly what you're getting.
Speaker 1: So I think you're going to see that the new
Speaker 1: streaming services to where initially a single show or a
Speaker 1: single series is going to define what this one is
Speaker 1: all about, and that's going to be what people kind
Speaker 1: of choose their sides with. I'm not sure if you
Speaker 1: got to watch any of Mark Zuckerberg today upon Capital Hill,
Speaker 1: if you talked a lot about Libra. It was the
Speaker 1: House Financial Services Committee. What do you think will happen
Speaker 1: to social media going forward? And these big players or
Speaker 1: you see it? Should they be broken up? In your view?
Speaker 1: I I feel like I am not really the person
Speaker 1: to answer that question, but I do believe that there
Speaker 1: is too much power in too few platforms at this moment,
Speaker 1: and uh that's always dangerous. So whether they get regulated,
Speaker 1: whether they get broken up, that's for other people to decide.
Speaker 1: But I don't think you can leave things the way
Speaker 1: they are where where a single platform like Facebook has
Speaker 1: the power that it does. That was Susan Line, President,
Speaker 1: founder of BBG Ventures for the full interview with Susan Line.
Speaker 1: Check out our Bloomberg Extra podcast wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1: And that wraps up Bloomberg Business Week's weekend podcast. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. I'm Jason Kelly and
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Masster. Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week Radio Live Monday through Friday, starting at two pm
Speaker 1: Wall Street Time. And if you can't catch us live,
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Speaker 1: here next week at the same time. This is Bloomberg