WEBVTT - CLASSIC: Who killed John Parsons Wheeler?

0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.760
<v Speaker 1>Fellow conspiracy realist. Here's his story. The Jedi may not

0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.440
<v Speaker 1>tell you. It's about a guy named John Parsons Wheeler

0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:09.720
<v Speaker 1>the Third, or Jack to his palace.

0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Aw, now this guy Jack Wheeler, As you said.

0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:20.479
<v Speaker 1>Who is he? Oh? Yeah, yeah, that's a question that

0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:24.880
<v Speaker 1>everybody asked themselves the Bureau. This is a question Jack

0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:29.840
<v Speaker 1>probably asked himself because before his untimely demise, he was

0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:35.400
<v Speaker 1>a silent kingmaker in the defense world of the United States.

0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.520
<v Speaker 1>He worked with three different presidential administrations. He was also

0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:44.880
<v Speaker 1>very well known for philanthropy. But then a strange series

0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.680
<v Speaker 1>of events led to his passing.

0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I'm an old political article from twenty

0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:57.600
<v Speaker 2>eleven about how he died from blunt force trauma and

0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.680
<v Speaker 2>how that was Like what how did he die like that?

0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.720
<v Speaker 1>How did such an important guy get found in a landfill?

0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:06.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:08.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I can't wait for this one. Let's revisit.

0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:17.360
<v Speaker 4>Yes, from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history

0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.160
<v Speaker 4>is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now

0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:24.000
<v Speaker 4>or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know.

0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:26.760
<v Speaker 4>A production of iHeartRadio.

0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Max,

0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:40.839
<v Speaker 2>My name is Nola.

0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.080
<v Speaker 1>They called me Ben. We were joined as always with

0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:47.520
<v Speaker 1>our super producer Paul Mission Control decandt here in spirit.

0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.880
<v Speaker 1>Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that

0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.960
<v Speaker 1>makes this stuff. They don't want you to know. We

0:01:55.160 --> 0:02:01.800
<v Speaker 1>are delving into a true unsolved mystery today. If you're

0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.760
<v Speaker 1>a younger person, you might not have heard of John

0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:09.119
<v Speaker 1>Parsons Wheeler, the Third unless you saw the recent Netflix

0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:14.920
<v Speaker 1>reboot of Unsolved Mysteries. It's a story that largely disappeared

0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:19.839
<v Speaker 1>from mass media headlines in a very weird way. I mean,

0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.600
<v Speaker 1>you've heard of Elisa Lamb, but have you heard of

0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:28.320
<v Speaker 1>John Parsons Wheeler. Here are the facts. First things first,

0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:30.760
<v Speaker 1>whether or not you have ever heard of this man.

0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.800
<v Speaker 1>If you live in the US, his career has probably

0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:39.360
<v Speaker 1>impacted you in some way. He's one of those guys who,

0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:44.520
<v Speaker 1>it seems like since his early days, he was destined

0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.440
<v Speaker 1>for the heights of the military political class.

0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:51.360
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, an absolute heavyweight and a sharp guy to boot.

0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.760
<v Speaker 3>John Parsons Wheeler, the Third Jack to his Pals, was

0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:58.679
<v Speaker 3>born on December fourteenth, nineteen forty four, in Laredo, Texas,

0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.000
<v Speaker 3>and he was to some degree kind of destined to

0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.480
<v Speaker 3>follow in the footsteps of those that came before him

0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:10.560
<v Speaker 3>in his family line, and was in fact groomed for the.

0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Type of illustrious political.

0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.440
<v Speaker 3>And military career many would only ever dream of. He

0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:20.520
<v Speaker 3>came from a long line of these career military men,

0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.800
<v Speaker 3>including one relative who served in both the Confederate Army

0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.000
<v Speaker 3>and then later the United States Army.

0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he ended up going to the US Military Academy,

0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.280
<v Speaker 2>which you may know as West Point. That's the way

0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.920
<v Speaker 2>it's generally referred to. Very prestigious place if you were

0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.280
<v Speaker 2>going to go that route. And then he was a

0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:43.040
<v Speaker 2>fire control platoon leader in New Jersey back in the

0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.880
<v Speaker 2>mid to late sixties, and he ended up getting a

0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.520
<v Speaker 2>Bachelor of Science degree from that institution.

0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Important note about his classmates, his cohort at West Point.

0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.320
<v Speaker 1>Many of these men would go on to lose their

0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:04.040
<v Speaker 1>lives in Vietnam, and his experiences with the war had

0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:09.240
<v Speaker 1>a tremendous influence on his career, his personal beliefs, and

0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:15.840
<v Speaker 1>possibly debatably, the end of his life. This class at

0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.440
<v Speaker 1>West Point is documented in a book written by a

0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:23.240
<v Speaker 1>former Washington Post journalist named Rick Atkinson. The name of

0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:28.520
<v Speaker 1>the book is The Long Gray Line. This book spends

0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot of time on Wheeler himself. If you read it,

0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.640
<v Speaker 1>and Wheeler had a copy of it at his home.

0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.920
<v Speaker 1>He served as a staff officer in Vietnam. He served

0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:42.000
<v Speaker 1>with the Office of the Secretary Defense. He served with

0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:46.920
<v Speaker 1>the Joint Staff before he left service in nineteen seventy one.

0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:54.280
<v Speaker 1>His schooling is particularly interesting because it was his gateway

0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.800
<v Speaker 1>to the upper echelons of American society. He enrolled in

0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Harvard Business School in sixty nin got a master's in

0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:06.120
<v Speaker 1>Business admin. He got a degree in law from Yale

0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:10.960
<v Speaker 1>in seventy five, and he worked with fancy law firms

0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.040
<v Speaker 1>in DC, the ones that kind of blur the line

0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:18.479
<v Speaker 1>between private and public power. They're often called white shoe

0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:20.799
<v Speaker 1>law firms. You may hear them referred to as such.

0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.479
<v Speaker 1>He served as a clerk for George E. McKinnon. He

0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.200
<v Speaker 1>was a high level official for the SEC Securities and

0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.719
<v Speaker 1>Exchange Commission. This guy had his finger in a lot

0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:35.920
<v Speaker 1>of pies. He was during this time at the SEC

0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:42.520
<v Speaker 1>side note he was investigating major cases of insider trading.

0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:49.080
<v Speaker 1>So long story short. He was accepted by the often

0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:53.599
<v Speaker 1>invisible ruling class of this country, and he moved extensively

0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:55.080
<v Speaker 1>in this circle.

0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, and he's also if anyone knew of his work,

0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.200
<v Speaker 2>if you're imagining the people on the other side of

0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:05.320
<v Speaker 2>those investigations, he was already potentially making enemies just putting

0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:05.839
<v Speaker 2>it out there.

0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, great point, Matt. Let's talk a little bit about

0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:17.919
<v Speaker 1>his career, because the space he occupies is a bit alien.

0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.400
<v Speaker 1>I think to a lot of the general public. You

0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.520
<v Speaker 1>could describe him as a defense consultant, but that is

0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:26.120
<v Speaker 1>a very vague term.

0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it seems almost like a gray area kind of

0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:31.920
<v Speaker 3>where I could encompass a whole lot of things that

0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.000
<v Speaker 3>maybe aren't public knowledge.

0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, Noel, So he was known for working in

0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:43.520
<v Speaker 1>that often unexamined, liminal space between the FEDS and private

0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.960
<v Speaker 1>companies and then charities and nonprofits, and of course, as

0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:52.800
<v Speaker 1>longtime listeners know some of those organizations, not all, but

0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.400
<v Speaker 1>some of them are much more closely related than they

0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.320
<v Speaker 1>would have you believe, according to you their FAQs on

0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.960
<v Speaker 1>their website for most of the people in the US.

0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:07.640
<v Speaker 1>Wheeler's most notable, well known work is his assistance in

0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the construction of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in DC in

0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:16.600
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty four. He's instrumental in making that happen. He

0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:22.120
<v Speaker 1>worked for a cavalcade of different institutions and organizations, Amtrak,

0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:28.920
<v Speaker 1>Mothers Against Drunk Driving, three different three different Republican administrations,

0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Reagan and then Bush, and then Bush again when that

0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:37.680
<v Speaker 1>guy put his son into office. And he also worked

0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:41.080
<v Speaker 1>for the Miner Corporation. Remember that last one. It's going

0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:45.240
<v Speaker 1>to be important later. His career was not without controversy,

0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:50.960
<v Speaker 1>especially moving in and out of so many institutions. Maybe

0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:53.880
<v Speaker 1>we can talk a little bit about his roles with

0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.720
<v Speaker 1>charities and with businesses as well.

0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:03.080
<v Speaker 2>He was extremely active in various nonprofits. I think that's

0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.000
<v Speaker 2>probably the way to put it, very specialized nonprofits. And

0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:08.480
<v Speaker 2>he was the founder and CEO of this thing called

0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.880
<v Speaker 2>Vietnam Children's Fund. By many accounts, at least if you

0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:17.360
<v Speaker 2>look online, appears to be a great organization, at least

0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.160
<v Speaker 2>the forward facing things about it. He worked with President Bush,

0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.920
<v Speaker 2>like we said, the father to create this thing called

0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.240
<v Speaker 2>the Earth Conservation Corps. He also served as president and

0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:31.080
<v Speaker 2>CEO of the Deafness Research Foundation. I mean, just listen

0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.600
<v Speaker 2>to what we're saying here. This man was non stop

0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.880
<v Speaker 2>working with organizations that appear to be for the greater

0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.320
<v Speaker 2>or the greater good. At least that that's the way.

0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.720
<v Speaker 2>That's the way it seems. He also had a really

0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:46.679
<v Speaker 2>solid rep for, oh yeah, this is great, a solid

0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:51.640
<v Speaker 2>rep for turning failing businesses around. Now that sounds sounds

0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.640
<v Speaker 2>great right on paper, But when you turn a failing

0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.960
<v Speaker 2>business around, like, what does that really mean?

0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:58.280
<v Speaker 1>Right? Like?

0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:00.359
<v Speaker 2>What do you have to do to.

0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.600
<v Speaker 3>Turn a failing business around? It's when you start hearing

0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.480
<v Speaker 3>like corporate buzzwords like pivot, you know.

0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it could be you know, and it could

0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:12.360
<v Speaker 2>be everything from specializing in you know, making a company

0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.680
<v Speaker 2>specialize in one small thing that is a profit center,

0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:17.480
<v Speaker 2>and then getting rid of a whole bunch of other

0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.760
<v Speaker 2>things that a company does, such as the case with Macy's.

0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Macy's you'll remember from the mall when you were a kid,

0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.960
<v Speaker 2>and some places now I think they're Macy's unless they're

0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.360
<v Speaker 2>all gone, I can't remember. But he turned that business around.

0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.960
<v Speaker 2>He got him out of bankruptcy, right, which may have

0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:36.920
<v Speaker 2>entailed layoffs.

0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.480
<v Speaker 1>That's the elephant in the room, the badger in the bag.

0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:44.960
<v Speaker 1>There under euphemisms like streamlining, pivoting, or focusing. But he

0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.680
<v Speaker 1>did manage to write this ship a small note about

0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Vietnam Children's Fund. By the way, they build elementary schools

0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.000
<v Speaker 1>in Vietnam, and they do a pretty great job at it.

0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.920
<v Speaker 1>They're still around. If you want to learn more, you can.

0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.760
<v Speaker 1>You can just find them online. But perhaps the most

0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:09.880
<v Speaker 1>unpredictable aspect of Wheeler's post military career was this late

0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:14.800
<v Speaker 1>stage professional plot twist. He was well into his sixties

0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:19.560
<v Speaker 1>when he developed an intense interest in cybersecurity, and that's

0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.880
<v Speaker 1>what led him to the Miter Corporation. It also it

0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.320
<v Speaker 1>also turned him into one of those guys who always

0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.679
<v Speaker 1>has a briefcase inexplicability, always has a briefcase.

0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:33.040
<v Speaker 2>This was in there.

0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:37.240
<v Speaker 1>Huh huh? Who is no telling? No, literally we don't know.

0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:41.000
<v Speaker 1>But behind the scenes, you know, we have to realize

0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.839
<v Speaker 1>that this person was a human being and he struggled

0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:51.120
<v Speaker 1>with his own demons. He suffered from depression and bipolar disorder.

0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:55.280
<v Speaker 1>That's not speculation. He received diagnosis in this regard, and

0:10:55.360 --> 0:11:00.760
<v Speaker 1>this resulted in these bouts of frenetic action and then

0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:07.520
<v Speaker 1>unpredictable at times drastic mood swings. But you know who's perfect.

0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.959
<v Speaker 2>Well, he's he's clearly a workaholic, right and I'm sure

0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:15.280
<v Speaker 2>in many ways that helped him, at least if you

0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.040
<v Speaker 2>watched the I think we mentioned it the Unsolved Mysteries episode,

0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.280
<v Speaker 2>as well as you read online stuff that has been

0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:26.760
<v Speaker 2>written by his wife. He thrived quite a bit from

0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.600
<v Speaker 2>that energy that he got, not necessarily from bipolar disorder,

0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.280
<v Speaker 2>but just that existed within him inherently.

0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:38.719
<v Speaker 1>Right, Right, someone defining themselves by their continual actions, right,

0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.880
<v Speaker 1>there must always be a goal to pursue. He's not

0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.400
<v Speaker 1>really a kickback and smell the morning dew with a

0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.960
<v Speaker 1>nice hot cup of coffee kind of guy. He's got

0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.360
<v Speaker 1>stuff to do. But given his track record, and given

0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:56.840
<v Speaker 1>the success and the benefits of the work he does,

0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:02.280
<v Speaker 1>his legacy seems assured until one strange day in November,

0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.920
<v Speaker 1>very last day of twenty ten, December thirty. First, there

0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:13.000
<v Speaker 1>are some workers at the Cherry Island landfill near Wilmington, Virginia.

0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.679
<v Speaker 1>They see the body of an elderly man plummet from

0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.400
<v Speaker 1>the back of a garbage truck onto a heap of trash.

0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.080
<v Speaker 1>This turns out to be the body of John Parsons

0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Wheeler the Third. He was sixty six years old. Today's episode,

0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:34.800
<v Speaker 1>what happened? We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor.

0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Here's where it gets crazy. Officially, this death has been

0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:51.160
<v Speaker 1>ruled a homicide. However, it is a homicide that comes

0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:56.240
<v Speaker 1>with a lot of unanswered questions. And the further you

0:12:56.280 --> 0:13:00.000
<v Speaker 1>dig into this story, the stranger it becomes. So maybe

0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.760
<v Speaker 1>we start with the relevant details. Should we start with

0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:03.960
<v Speaker 1>the landfill? What do you think?

0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.920
<v Speaker 3>I think that's a perfect place to start. When these

0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.800
<v Speaker 3>workers found Wheeler's body, he had the look of having

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.199
<v Speaker 3>been severely beaten. He was wearing a white shirt, black pants,

0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.520
<v Speaker 3>and a black jacket, and an important detail, he was

0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.000
<v Speaker 3>wearing a class of nineteen sixty six ring from the

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:28.680
<v Speaker 3>West Point Military Academy. And the thing that was unusual

0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.439
<v Speaker 3>about it is that he still had things like that

0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:38.079
<v Speaker 3>clearly very valuable ring that any average street mugger would

0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.280
<v Speaker 3>have taken. Not to mention the absolute lack of care

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.719
<v Speaker 3>that went into quote disposing of this body. I mean,

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 3>it was really just dumped in plain view.

0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.600
<v Speaker 2>We're going to talk about this later on, but just

0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:54.480
<v Speaker 2>to end up where his body ended up, it was

0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:58.240
<v Speaker 2>either someone taking great care to put a body in

0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.120
<v Speaker 2>a dumpster and hope that it never be discovered again,

0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.360
<v Speaker 2>because it's actually quite unlikely that they would have discovered

0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.880
<v Speaker 2>him amongst all the trash that was dumped that day

0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.280
<v Speaker 2>from the truck. The other side of the coin is

0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.640
<v Speaker 2>if his body was dumped by somebody or just put

0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.840
<v Speaker 2>into a dumpster like that. You're right that there's a

0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.240
<v Speaker 2>lack of care in that. I don't know, it's weird.

0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.240
<v Speaker 2>It's both sides, right, it's a lack of care, but

0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:28.360
<v Speaker 2>it's also it appears to show intent. I guess if

0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.280
<v Speaker 2>someone actually did put him in there to try and

0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:31.440
<v Speaker 2>hide a body.

0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's the thing. It's alarmingly easy to dispose of

0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 1>an organism in a landfill, especially a large one. You

0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.880
<v Speaker 1>just you have to work out the timing and you

0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:47.760
<v Speaker 1>have to you know, like the day of the week

0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.840
<v Speaker 1>when a lot of dumps come in. Things like that.

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 1>This should not be confused or mistaken as confused for

0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 1>mistaken as advice on where to put bodies. We are

0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.280
<v Speaker 1>not giving you that. We are saying that the average

0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:08.080
<v Speaker 1>I would say, not pre planned or orchestrated mugging or

0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:12.640
<v Speaker 1>murder doesn't usually resultant in the perpetrator having the presence

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.880
<v Speaker 1>of mind to dispose of the body. You know what,

0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if if you are robbing someone, the robbery

0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:24.320
<v Speaker 1>goes wrong and you stab them, wound them, maim them,

0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.160
<v Speaker 1>or shoot them, your first instinct is going to be

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.280
<v Speaker 1>to leave the scene immediately rather than sit around and think, hey,

0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 1>should I stash this in some bushes Assassin's creed style

0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.120
<v Speaker 1>or something like that. It just it doesn't often happen

0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:44.280
<v Speaker 1>that way. So Wilmington is on the case. Authorities contact

0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 1>the police in Newcastle, Delaware, where the Wheeler family has

0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 1>a second home, and the Virginia Police informed the Delaware

0:15:54.680 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 1>police of this a few days earlier, just after Christmas,

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.480
<v Speaker 1>around December twenty eighth, Wheeler had told his wife he

0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.280
<v Speaker 1>had to spend a few days working on an important

0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 1>project at the miner corporation. He told her he'd be

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.560
<v Speaker 1>staying at the Metropolitan Club in downtown Washington, and they

0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 1>argued about this. We know they argued, this is not speculation,

0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 1>because we can see the email and text records, and

0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.640
<v Speaker 1>he was emphasizing this was important. He even talked to

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.400
<v Speaker 1>his therapist about the argument. He was trying to trying

0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:34.280
<v Speaker 1>to smooth things out diplomatically until the point that he

0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:38.280
<v Speaker 1>fell completely out of contact with her, and then police

0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:43.160
<v Speaker 1>found a series of phone calls that made this seem

0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.560
<v Speaker 1>like more than an accidental death or a mugging.

0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.600
<v Speaker 3>That's right, but more than offering any real solution to

0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 3>just raised a significant number of new questions to the

0:16:54.960 --> 0:17:00.000
<v Speaker 3>circumstances surrounding Wheeler's death. One call from December twenty eighth,

0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.800
<v Speaker 3>the day Wheeler traveled to Washington, d C. Came from

0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:09.000
<v Speaker 3>a resident of Newcastle named Scott Morris, who saw at

0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.920
<v Speaker 3>eleven thirty pm what he described as quote, the darkened

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.240
<v Speaker 3>silhouette of a man standing in the frame of the

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 3>house under construction across the street, methodically lighting what looked

0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:25.240
<v Speaker 3>like small balls of fire and tossing them onto the floor.

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Huh.

0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:32.240
<v Speaker 3>Really descriptive and kind of eerie. The police called to

0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:37.840
<v Speaker 3>the scene didn't find any damage of note, but Morris

0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:42.600
<v Speaker 3>remained disturbed by what he saw. The sense of desperation

0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.040
<v Speaker 3>and the purpose of what was going on in this

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.680
<v Speaker 3>scene really stuck with him. He described it as creepy.

0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.360
<v Speaker 3>He says, the figure appeared very calm, and when he finished,

0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.840
<v Speaker 3>he turned very deliberately and walked away toward the path

0:17:57.960 --> 0:17:59.440
<v Speaker 3>along the Delaware River.

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:04.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so we know the thing about eyewitness accounts is

0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:09.720
<v Speaker 1>that they they're essentially combo meals, right. The main entree

0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.080
<v Speaker 1>in these combo meals is going to be the factual

0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:17.159
<v Speaker 1>description of what happened. But the side order, you know,

0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 1>the fries and the drink are the person's own perspective

0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:27.720
<v Speaker 1>and opinion put on put upon what they saw. So yes,

0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:35.480
<v Speaker 1>for Morris, this appears to be purposeful. He somehow, from

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.840
<v Speaker 1>body language, because he didn't speak to this person, he

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:44.760
<v Speaker 1>somehow believed or got the sense that they were quite deliberate.

0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.359
<v Speaker 1>But that doesn't necessarily mean they are because he didn't

0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.879
<v Speaker 1>talk to them, right, and he didn't see who it was.

0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:54.440
<v Speaker 1>That's a hugely important detail here. But another hugely important detail.

0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:59.760
<v Speaker 1>That construction site was something Wheeler was involved in an

0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.040
<v Speaker 1>anti shagonistic way. It was an on He was part

0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:07.160
<v Speaker 1>of an ongoing legal dispute over the construction of this

0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.240
<v Speaker 1>particular house, and he was going hard on the paint too.

0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.120
<v Speaker 1>He hated the idea of it being built Partially, yes,

0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:18.280
<v Speaker 1>it would block his home's view of the land and

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:22.880
<v Speaker 1>the water, but from his perspective, at least the way

0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:27.280
<v Speaker 1>he explained it, the area was historic because back in

0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:32.479
<v Speaker 1>the day early colonists and then later revolutionaries built a

0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.480
<v Speaker 1>defense battery on that land. So to him, building anything

0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.400
<v Speaker 1>on that land other than perhaps a monument to those

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:44.280
<v Speaker 1>earlier forces was profoundly offensive. It was a kind of sacrilege.

0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.800
<v Speaker 1>But then we have to ask ourselves, was that sincere

0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.720
<v Speaker 1>or was that just like his rationalization for this construction

0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.520
<v Speaker 1>that he hated, you know what I mean? Anyway, he

0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:56.560
<v Speaker 1>was involved.

0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, he was involved, and he was trying to stop it.

0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.840
<v Speaker 2>His wife says that he was essentially on a mission

0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.960
<v Speaker 2>to stop this thing. And we know from just from

0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:09.600
<v Speaker 2>his past life and in his actions everything that he's done,

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.239
<v Speaker 2>he sees something as a goal and he goes for it,

0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.840
<v Speaker 2>and that's again like his mission, right, so you can

0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.000
<v Speaker 2>imagine that he was very feeling, very very strongly about this.

0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 2>And from what I've read, this incident appears to have

0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:28.000
<v Speaker 2>been like smoke bombs that weren't gonna didn't seem to

0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.159
<v Speaker 2>cause any damage really to the house, didn't seem to

0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 2>cause anything else besides this disturbance. But the weird thing

0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:41.119
<v Speaker 2>is that John Wheeler's cellular phone was recovered in that house,

0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.200
<v Speaker 2>the house that was under construction where the silhouetted man

0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.680
<v Speaker 2>or person lighting, smoke bombs, was found or was seen

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.160
<v Speaker 2>let's say, very strange.

0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, leaving the accusations of his involvement or his guilt

0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.280
<v Speaker 1>in this instance, leaving those all to the side. The

0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.840
<v Speaker 1>timeline becomes really weird when we think about when he

0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:08.920
<v Speaker 1>had the phone and when he didn't, how the phone

0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.080
<v Speaker 1>got from him to that place in place on the

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.600
<v Speaker 1>banks there. And then there is another call police discover

0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.399
<v Speaker 1>on December thirtieth, the day before Wheeler's body is found.

0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.879
<v Speaker 1>There's a guy named Rob Dill DLLL. He is one

0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.960
<v Speaker 1>of the Wheeler's neighbors there in Newcastle, and he reports

0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.359
<v Speaker 1>that someone has broken into the Wheeler's home. I believe

0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.199
<v Speaker 1>he's the same neighbor also who said they had a

0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.159
<v Speaker 1>TV on very loud when he knew there was no

0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:41.200
<v Speaker 1>one home. He was just doing any thing neighbors do,

0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.320
<v Speaker 1>keeping an eye on the house. He had noticed a

0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:51.680
<v Speaker 1>window a jar in the Wheeler house and the exterior door,

0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:56.760
<v Speaker 1>the storm door was closed, but the interior door was

0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:01.959
<v Speaker 1>also a jar. And then he found he found some weird,

0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.800
<v Speaker 1>weird stuff when he went into the interior. There was

0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.560
<v Speaker 1>a disarray in the kitchen, you know, like somebody had

0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.600
<v Speaker 1>been rooting through things in a hurried manner. John had

0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 1>a ceremonial sword and shield. They were covered with powder

0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:23.359
<v Speaker 1>by the sink. Rob Dill notices a footprint in powder

0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:26.920
<v Speaker 1>in front of the sink, and when the police show up.

0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.680
<v Speaker 1>The weird thing is that nothing seems to have been stolen.

0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Stuff was messed with, but no one took expensive electronics.

0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:38.080
<v Speaker 1>No one took, you know, some of the art that

0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 1>the Wheelers had, the kind of stuff you would normally

0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:44.879
<v Speaker 1>steal if you were just a garden variety B and

0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:49.040
<v Speaker 1>E dude. But there was one detail that caught their attention.

0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:54.399
<v Speaker 1>Amid all this disarray, investigators found a book on the

0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:58.399
<v Speaker 1>kitchen counter. The book was open, as if someone had

0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.720
<v Speaker 1>been reading it before they left. Can you guess what

0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:05.919
<v Speaker 1>the book is? If you guessed the long gray line,

0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:08.280
<v Speaker 1>you are correct. Yeah, man.

0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 2>And just the fact that his ceremonial sword and shield

0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:18.000
<v Speaker 2>we're hanging out down there. I mean, that's a it's weird. Spices,

0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:22.600
<v Speaker 2>some comment maybe, or whatever the white substance was, and

0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:27.719
<v Speaker 2>those things. I don't know. It's weird. It's tough because

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:32.760
<v Speaker 2>initially what that sounds like to me is frantically searching

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:36.919
<v Speaker 2>for something in your own house and then maybe finding

0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:38.919
<v Speaker 2>it or not finding it and getting upset and leaving.

0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:46.560
<v Speaker 2>That's where forget or you know there's something I've hidden something,

0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:49.320
<v Speaker 2>or I know I've hidden something, but I'm not sure

0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:52.280
<v Speaker 2>where it is. I think it might be under the sink,

0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.320
<v Speaker 2>and like just pulling everything frantically out from drawers and

0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:56.160
<v Speaker 2>from under the sink.

0:23:56.560 --> 0:23:56.919
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.480
<v Speaker 2>That's what it sounds like to me. Rather like, as

0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:01.199
<v Speaker 2>you said, for all the reason you've already stated been

0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:05.080
<v Speaker 2>rather than someone going into the house and robbing it,

0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:07.840
<v Speaker 2>unless they were just trying to leave a message of some.

0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:13.800
<v Speaker 1>Sort, right, unless there was possibly someone from his past. Right,

0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:17.760
<v Speaker 1>this is the thing. We don't know what page the

0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:20.439
<v Speaker 1>book was on, you know, when it was open. Was

0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:27.159
<v Speaker 1>it indicating a specific somehow significant passage unknown at this time.

0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:31.240
<v Speaker 1>But then also we see an alternate possibility that maybe

0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:35.199
<v Speaker 1>Wheeler himself is panicked or he's hurried for some reason,

0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:39.439
<v Speaker 1>because when people are hurrying from their own house, they

0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:42.840
<v Speaker 1>don't always close the windows or the doors, right, because

0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:45.720
<v Speaker 1>the logic is, it's my house, I'll just come back

0:24:45.760 --> 0:24:51.800
<v Speaker 1>into it. Right. So the initial investigations tell us increasingly

0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:58.040
<v Speaker 1>strange things on January third, just a few days after

0:24:58.080 --> 0:25:02.160
<v Speaker 1>the discovery of his body, you p reported Wheeler's death

0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:06.240
<v Speaker 1>was ruled a homicide, but a friend of his that

0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:10.199
<v Speaker 1>he knew through the legal circles he moved in noted,

0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:13.320
<v Speaker 1>this is just not the kind of guy who gets murdered.

0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:16.280
<v Speaker 1>This is not the kind of guy you find in

0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:21.800
<v Speaker 1>a landfill. But the official cause of death again, his homicide,

0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:25.200
<v Speaker 1>and that was specified in several obituaries that came out

0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:25.879
<v Speaker 1>shortly after.

0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:30.320
<v Speaker 3>So according to his obituary in the Washington Posts, well,

0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.000
<v Speaker 3>I'll just read you a quote quote, the cause of

0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:38.560
<v Speaker 3>death was blunt force trauma inflicted by unknown assailants in Wilmington, Delaware,

0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:43.480
<v Speaker 3>not far from his home in Newcastle, Delaware. But as

0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:48.480
<v Speaker 3>these investigations continued, many more troubling details started to rise

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:52.600
<v Speaker 3>to the surface. Wheelers seemed to not only have been beaten,

0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:56.959
<v Speaker 3>but beaten to the point of like the beating inducing

0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:02.040
<v Speaker 3>a heart attack I can only imagine, and several eyewitnesses

0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:06.160
<v Speaker 3>would report that Wheeler had been seen in really rough

0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:11.760
<v Speaker 3>shape holding a shoe his shoe, stumbling around under duress

0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:17.199
<v Speaker 3>in Wilmington, Delaware. He was telling people in this unsolved

0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:18.640
<v Speaker 3>Mysteries that we talked about. The top of the show,

0:26:18.880 --> 0:26:22.080
<v Speaker 3>they interview some of the folks that saw him, and

0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:27.200
<v Speaker 3>he claimed to have lost his briefcase, or rather even

0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:29.120
<v Speaker 3>even more so, had it stolen.

0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is what he's stolen.

0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:35.000
<v Speaker 3>And he kept repeating it like he was in some

0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:39.040
<v Speaker 3>kind of fugue state, whether it's suffering from some sort

0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:42.840
<v Speaker 3>of mental breakdown or just dazed from having been attacked,

0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 3>or you know, in disheveled and all that. But it

0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:48.399
<v Speaker 3>really does, the plot does thicken. There's some footage you

0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:51.119
<v Speaker 3>can see, Uh, he's on camera from his kind of

0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:55.680
<v Speaker 3>you know, wander, and you can see that he's kind

0:26:55.680 --> 0:26:59.440
<v Speaker 3>of pacing around frantically. He's holding the shoe. It almost

0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 3>looks like he's mumbling to himself. He looks very disoriented

0:27:03.640 --> 0:27:07.000
<v Speaker 3>on these CCTV videos and he claims to have been

0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:09.400
<v Speaker 3>robbed and needed a ride out of town.

0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:12.879
<v Speaker 2>And this is my side note here, but when you

0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:15.880
<v Speaker 2>first look at the footage, you see an you see

0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:19.000
<v Speaker 2>an elderly man that does appear to be out of

0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:22.680
<v Speaker 2>sorts for one reason or another. And in my mind,

0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:27.720
<v Speaker 2>initially what I see is disorientation, like a disoriented person.

0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:29.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't maybe I don't know where I am. I'm

0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:32.720
<v Speaker 2>confused about what's going on and why I'm here. That's

0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:36.840
<v Speaker 2>what it looks like. But according to people who knew him, well,

0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:41.440
<v Speaker 2>there's several interviews outside of that Unsolved Mysteries show that

0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:45.560
<v Speaker 2>include his wife and several people that knew him and

0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:49.960
<v Speaker 2>his wife speaking about others words, but they all say

0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:54.359
<v Speaker 2>that he looked in distress as though he was what

0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:56.560
<v Speaker 2>did they I think, Ben, you kind of put it

0:27:56.560 --> 0:28:00.240
<v Speaker 2>that way, hunting or being hunted, essentially, like he was

0:28:00.280 --> 0:28:04.600
<v Speaker 2>in distress for one reason or another. That's their opinion.

0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:08.439
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, And that's a phrase we'll use later in

0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:14.280
<v Speaker 1>the episode because it does encapsulate exactly how he was behaving.

0:28:14.359 --> 0:28:18.240
<v Speaker 1>And again we see the issue with eyewitness reports. People

0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:22.440
<v Speaker 1>are putting their own perspective over the events, or it's

0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:24.480
<v Speaker 1>a better way to say it is they're seeing the

0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:28.320
<v Speaker 1>same events through the lens of their own perspective and

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:34.199
<v Speaker 1>their preconceptions. Here's the thing. This doesn't appear to have

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:37.840
<v Speaker 1>come out of nowhere, because email records show that on

0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:43.520
<v Speaker 1>December twenty ninth, he had contacted his colleagues at the

0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:47.520
<v Speaker 1>Miterer Corporation reporting a home break in. He said that

0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:51.480
<v Speaker 1>his cell phone had been stolen, his badge, his ID badge,

0:28:51.600 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 1>his security fob, and his briefcase. There's a mystery here.

0:28:56.880 --> 0:29:00.840
<v Speaker 1>We know as records for cab calls, we have interviews

0:29:01.000 --> 0:29:03.720
<v Speaker 1>with cab drivers who spoke with him, you know, his

0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:08.640
<v Speaker 1>records for emails and texts. But after he reported his

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:13.120
<v Speaker 1>phone being stolen, it's not clear where he was sending

0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:15.680
<v Speaker 1>these other emails from or how he was sending them.

0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Was it an internet cafe or something like that. We

0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:21.760
<v Speaker 1>simply do not know. There are no further reports of

0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 1>him until six pm, when he walked into the nearby

0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Happy Harry's pharmacy. This was like his you know, it's

0:29:29.600 --> 0:29:32.480
<v Speaker 1>like his CVS or his Walgreens down the street or

0:29:32.600 --> 0:29:35.520
<v Speaker 1>right eight I guess, depending on where you live, Dwayne Reid,

0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:38.400
<v Speaker 1>if you're in New York, I'm just naming pharmacies at

0:29:38.400 --> 0:29:38.800
<v Speaker 1>this point.

0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:39.200
<v Speaker 4>But he.

0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Knows the people who work there. He is friends with

0:29:45.640 --> 0:29:48.640
<v Speaker 1>one of the pharmacists, and he comes in and he

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:52.520
<v Speaker 1>asks this guy if he can get a ride to Wilmington,

0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:56.600
<v Speaker 1>and multiple times people try to offer him assistance, and

0:29:56.720 --> 0:30:01.240
<v Speaker 1>for varying reasons, he always turned the assistance down.

0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:04.400
<v Speaker 2>It's strange did we talk about why he wants to

0:30:04.400 --> 0:30:08.440
<v Speaker 2>go to Willington. At least according to that documentary or

0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:12.280
<v Speaker 2>that Unsolved Mysteries episode, it's because his car was parked

0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:15.320
<v Speaker 2>somewhere where he left his car park somewhere and he

0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:18.200
<v Speaker 2>wanted to go find it, but he wasn't quite sure

0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:21.440
<v Speaker 2>where it is, and according to his wife and others,

0:30:21.480 --> 0:30:25.160
<v Speaker 2>he would he was constantly losing his car essentially after

0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:25.880
<v Speaker 2>he would park it.

0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, DC is a tough place to park in, I

0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:32.320
<v Speaker 1>mean a lot of the North East in general. But

0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:35.479
<v Speaker 1>also he was doing something that I think will be

0:30:35.600 --> 0:30:37.840
<v Speaker 1>familiar to a lot of people who park their car

0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:42.080
<v Speaker 1>for a long time during quarantine. He just hadn't been

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:45.800
<v Speaker 1>around his car for a minute, right, so he wasn't

0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:49.080
<v Speaker 1>quite sure where he put it. That doesn't The important

0:30:49.080 --> 0:30:51.320
<v Speaker 1>thing here is that's losing your car in that way

0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:55.080
<v Speaker 1>is not indicative of an unwell mental state.

0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:58.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and that's the story that he was giving to

0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:01.800
<v Speaker 2>people to for the reason and to get to that area.

0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:04.560
<v Speaker 2>But we're not, I don't know, we can't definitively prove

0:31:04.600 --> 0:31:05.840
<v Speaker 2>that's why he needed to get to.

0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Wilmington, right, Just that that's what he said to some people,

0:31:09.720 --> 0:31:13.480
<v Speaker 1>but not all. That's a very good point. So he

0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:16.840
<v Speaker 1>looks particularly rough when he's in one parking lot talking

0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:20.560
<v Speaker 1>this parking attendant. He has one shoe on the other

0:31:20.680 --> 0:31:23.840
<v Speaker 1>is ripped and in his hand, and it turns out

0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:27.080
<v Speaker 1>that he is in the wrong deck. His car is

0:31:27.120 --> 0:31:31.360
<v Speaker 1>in a different nearby parking deck are he eventually leaves

0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:34.640
<v Speaker 1>the scene. There are no further sightings of him until

0:31:34.760 --> 0:31:39.760
<v Speaker 1>December thirtieth, when he visits a high rise to speak

0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:43.640
<v Speaker 1>with a senior partner at a law firm. He leaves

0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:47.680
<v Speaker 1>before he actually meets with this person, but he also,

0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:51.360
<v Speaker 1>according to someone else in the office, asked for money

0:31:51.440 --> 0:31:56.760
<v Speaker 1>to take the train somewhere before he left. Surveillance cameras

0:31:56.840 --> 0:32:01.360
<v Speaker 1>captured him exiting the building. He was walked east toward

0:32:01.440 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 1>a place called Rodney Square, and this leads if you

0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:08.479
<v Speaker 1>walk past Rodney Square, this leads to an area of

0:32:08.480 --> 0:32:12.360
<v Speaker 1>the city that is known for historically high rates of crime.

0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:16.760
<v Speaker 1>That footage is the last time John Parsons Wheeler is

0:32:16.840 --> 0:32:17.760
<v Speaker 1>seen alive.

0:32:18.000 --> 0:32:21.080
<v Speaker 2>The next morning, he's found dead in that landfill. It

0:32:21.200 --> 0:32:24.000
<v Speaker 2>is interesting to note as well, it appears that he

0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:28.200
<v Speaker 2>may have spent the night underneath that building where there

0:32:28.240 --> 0:32:31.200
<v Speaker 2>are there's a series of tunnels essentially that go throughout

0:32:31.240 --> 0:32:34.920
<v Speaker 2>the area, and he was definitely seen on camera down there,

0:32:36.240 --> 0:32:39.280
<v Speaker 2>and he was also seen in the same clothes he

0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:43.360
<v Speaker 2>was wearing earlier. And then when he exited the building, somehow,

0:32:43.560 --> 0:32:45.360
<v Speaker 2>for some reason, he had gotten a hold of a

0:32:45.360 --> 0:32:49.040
<v Speaker 2>black hoodie right put that on and wore that out

0:32:49.080 --> 0:32:50.560
<v Speaker 2>of the building the next night.

0:32:50.680 --> 0:32:53.040
<v Speaker 3>And then then folks who knew him, his wife for example,

0:32:53.120 --> 0:32:56.920
<v Speaker 3>who were interviewed for that Unsolved Mystery episode, said that

0:32:57.040 --> 0:33:00.400
<v Speaker 3>was just completely out of character for him, not something

0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:02.920
<v Speaker 3>he would have ever worn. But it was also very cold,

0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:05.480
<v Speaker 3>for sure, But it's like it didn't belong to him.

0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:08.600
<v Speaker 3>He got it from somebody or some somewhere found it or.

0:33:08.600 --> 0:33:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Something, yeah, or maybe picked it up paid cash, because

0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:15.520
<v Speaker 1>he did have cash on him to the very end

0:33:15.520 --> 0:33:19.280
<v Speaker 1>of his life and beyond. So when his body has

0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:22.720
<v Speaker 1>found at the landfill, police in Newark, New Jersey ended

0:33:22.800 --> 0:33:26.600
<v Speaker 1>up taking the case because there's evidence that the trash

0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:31.240
<v Speaker 1>truck that had his body in it made stops in Newark,

0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:35.320
<v Speaker 1>which means that Wheeler's body somehow ended up in a

0:33:35.400 --> 0:33:40.240
<v Speaker 1>dumpster about thirteen miles away from where he was last seen.

0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:43.920
<v Speaker 1>On video or where he's last provably seen. As far

0:33:43.960 --> 0:33:48.160
<v Speaker 1>as the information Law enforcement has released, how much have

0:33:48.240 --> 0:33:51.920
<v Speaker 1>they released? Not all of it, not by a long shot.

0:33:52.040 --> 0:33:54.040
<v Speaker 1>We're going to pause for word from our sponsor, and

0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:56.880
<v Speaker 1>then we're going to dive into some of the theories

0:33:56.920 --> 0:34:00.440
<v Speaker 1>and remaining questions regarding the death of John Parsons Wheeler.

0:34:07.280 --> 0:34:14.280
<v Speaker 1>We're back earlier. We noted that whomever was throwing smoke

0:34:14.320 --> 0:34:19.400
<v Speaker 1>bombs at that construction site, whoever they were, they weren't

0:34:19.440 --> 0:34:23.080
<v Speaker 1>throwing explosives. You know, this wasn't C four. They weren't

0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:27.960
<v Speaker 1>lighting fires. The smoke bombs didn't really have the capacity

0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:29.280
<v Speaker 1>to do permanent damage.

0:34:29.600 --> 0:34:33.160
<v Speaker 3>No. I mean, we kind of all know what smoke

0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:34.719
<v Speaker 3>bombs are. The kind of things you can buy at

0:34:34.760 --> 0:34:37.080
<v Speaker 3>a joke shop or a fireworks shop, and they're sort

0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:40.600
<v Speaker 3>of considered like the wimpiest of fireworks, but they make

0:34:40.840 --> 0:34:45.000
<v Speaker 3>cool plumes of colored smoke, which you would have thought

0:34:45.040 --> 0:34:49.360
<v Speaker 3>that the eyewitness people would have mentioned the smoke bombs.

0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:52.040
<v Speaker 3>I mean, they put out a lot of smoke, and

0:34:52.080 --> 0:34:55.520
<v Speaker 3>it's usually brightly colored, like blues or purples or pinks

0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:56.040
<v Speaker 3>or whatever.

0:34:57.080 --> 0:35:00.280
<v Speaker 2>But it was it was at eleven eleven thre thirty

0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:02.279
<v Speaker 2>PM when that was happening, right, So.

0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:04.759
<v Speaker 3>He was described as being silhouetted, So wouldn't you would

0:35:04.760 --> 0:35:06.680
<v Speaker 3>have had to have some direct light to see the

0:35:06.719 --> 0:35:09.040
<v Speaker 3>effects there. But you're right, I mean these things they

0:35:09.719 --> 0:35:12.680
<v Speaker 3>don't even really explode. They just kind of light the

0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:14.960
<v Speaker 3>fuse and it sparks and then once it hits, it

0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:17.920
<v Speaker 3>really just starts shooting out the smoke. So they wouldn't

0:35:17.920 --> 0:35:19.799
<v Speaker 3>have done any damage. You can't really do a thing

0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:22.239
<v Speaker 3>with smoke bombs other than, you know, disappear if you're

0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:23.600
<v Speaker 3>like a cool ninja or something.

0:35:23.840 --> 0:35:28.120
<v Speaker 1>So could he have made an enemy? I mean, he's

0:35:28.160 --> 0:35:31.520
<v Speaker 1>definitely involved where someone definitely wanted it to look as

0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:34.680
<v Speaker 1>if he were involved, because his cell phone ends up

0:35:34.680 --> 0:35:38.239
<v Speaker 1>at the construction site. So did he lie to the

0:35:38.280 --> 0:35:42.000
<v Speaker 1>Miter corporation and say that he had lost his cell

0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:46.319
<v Speaker 1>phone prior to this to try to escape culpability. Did

0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:49.279
<v Speaker 1>someone steal his cell phone and put it at the

0:35:49.320 --> 0:35:53.480
<v Speaker 1>construction site. That's a kind of complicated frame up, isn't it.

0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:56.600
<v Speaker 1>There would have to be a compelling reason to do that.

0:35:57.000 --> 0:36:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Or was the smoke bomb a signal for me? You know,

0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:03.320
<v Speaker 2>like was I mean that sounds silly, but maybe this

0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:07.600
<v Speaker 2>smoke bomb at a construction site was Maybe the construction

0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:10.239
<v Speaker 2>site was a quiet place to meet that he thought

0:36:10.239 --> 0:36:12.320
<v Speaker 2>would be you know, he'd be able to have a

0:36:12.360 --> 0:36:16.279
<v Speaker 2>confidential conversation. There's another question, like when you're talking about

0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:19.680
<v Speaker 2>the minor corporation materials, and I don't mean, you know,

0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:21.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to put anything on John. I don't

0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:23.680
<v Speaker 2>know what he was doing or what his motivations were,

0:36:23.719 --> 0:36:26.799
<v Speaker 2>but I can imagine all of those assets for a

0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:29.520
<v Speaker 2>company could be valuable to somebody.

0:36:29.920 --> 0:36:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Right, You're absolutely right, there's something else here.

0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:35.480
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:36:35.520 --> 0:36:38.840
<v Speaker 1>We see a couple of points where this could have

0:36:39.000 --> 0:36:45.640
<v Speaker 1>been a simple robbery or a series of unfortunate, completely mundane,

0:36:46.200 --> 0:36:51.120
<v Speaker 1>non spionage related events. But there are some problems with

0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:56.960
<v Speaker 1>that too. So first, as you would pointed out earlier, Matt,

0:36:57.040 --> 0:36:59.799
<v Speaker 1>the body has things on it that a mugger would

0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:04.240
<v Speaker 1>have stolen. Very nice Rolex watch. He's got that class

0:37:04.320 --> 0:37:07.440
<v Speaker 1>ring from West Point. He still has cold hard cash

0:37:07.520 --> 0:37:11.319
<v Speaker 1>on his person. Why would robbers leave all those things

0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:15.279
<v Speaker 1>on a victim? If robbers they were, If there were

0:37:15.520 --> 0:37:19.480
<v Speaker 1>robbers at his home, what were they looking for? It

0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:21.919
<v Speaker 1>was certainly not high end art, It was not electronics,

0:37:21.960 --> 0:37:24.799
<v Speaker 1>other valuables. None of those were touched. They were just

0:37:25.080 --> 0:37:29.520
<v Speaker 1>searching frantically for turmeric apparently. But the problem here is

0:37:29.560 --> 0:37:35.600
<v Speaker 1>one of geography. Honestly, it's a series of bizarre disturbances.

0:37:35.640 --> 0:37:39.360
<v Speaker 1>And even if you do the footwork and look through

0:37:40.600 --> 0:37:44.600
<v Speaker 1>the documented timeline of where he went and when, you'll

0:37:44.640 --> 0:37:49.120
<v Speaker 1>see that this appears to be a man on the run.

0:37:49.400 --> 0:37:52.760
<v Speaker 1>He is either being hunted or believes he is being hunted,

0:37:53.040 --> 0:37:58.200
<v Speaker 1>or possibly at some parts of the timeline, he himself

0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:01.520
<v Speaker 1>is hunting someone, which leads us to ask the question,

0:38:02.760 --> 0:38:04.720
<v Speaker 1>are we talking about murder for hire?

0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:08.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, you mentioned completely correctly, Ben.

0:38:08.200 --> 0:38:10.960
<v Speaker 3>Like the way this man looks, the way he's pacing

0:38:11.280 --> 0:38:14.279
<v Speaker 3>in this bathroom, it's like he's hiding from somebody. It's

0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:17.480
<v Speaker 3>like he's trying to escape some unseen assailant.

0:38:17.640 --> 0:38:17.840
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:20.239
<v Speaker 3>I mean that really, that's how it rings for me.

0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:22.200
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if you guys read it that way,

0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:26.960
<v Speaker 3>but I really got strong vibes that he was being chaste.

0:38:27.440 --> 0:38:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I can imagine it. We have to wonder,

0:38:31.280 --> 0:38:33.680
<v Speaker 2>and again I end up going back to the Miter

0:38:33.800 --> 0:38:37.160
<v Speaker 2>corporation because he only worked for them for what two

0:38:37.239 --> 0:38:39.560
<v Speaker 2>years a year or two years two thousand and nine,

0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:43.319
<v Speaker 2>I think twenty ten until his death. He was just

0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:47.279
<v Speaker 2>a consultant with them, and who knows what consulting work

0:38:47.320 --> 0:38:50.960
<v Speaker 2>for the Miter corporation actually looks like, who knows what

0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:54.600
<v Speaker 2>information he was dealing with and had you know, privileged

0:38:54.719 --> 0:38:59.000
<v Speaker 2>knowledge too, And of gosh, I guess have to put

0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:02.600
<v Speaker 2>a giant it's not in a lie, it's it's my

0:39:02.880 --> 0:39:08.239
<v Speaker 2>own thoughts, and it's I wonder if his work with

0:39:08.239 --> 0:39:11.120
<v Speaker 2>a minor corporation had something to do with this.

0:39:11.520 --> 0:39:14.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't think that's out of the realm of

0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:19.319
<v Speaker 1>possibility at all, because at this at this point, you know,

0:39:19.520 --> 0:39:24.920
<v Speaker 1>the US intelligence community is well aware of the asymmetrical

0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:30.040
<v Speaker 1>information warfare that countries like Russia and China and the

0:39:30.120 --> 0:39:34.320
<v Speaker 1>DPRK or North Korea are actively waging against the US.

0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:36.799
<v Speaker 1>And to be fair, the US is doing the same

0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:39.520
<v Speaker 1>thing with those countries with countries in the Middle East.

0:39:39.680 --> 0:39:43.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, take a map, spin it around and just

0:39:43.719 --> 0:39:46.239
<v Speaker 1>throw a random dart at it, and you'll probably hit

0:39:46.280 --> 0:39:49.640
<v Speaker 1>a country that the US is fine on. So there

0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:54.239
<v Speaker 1>are a lot of state level actors that would be

0:39:54.520 --> 0:39:59.600
<v Speaker 1>very interested in his work at Miter Corporation. This takes

0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:02.840
<v Speaker 1>me back to that point we made earlier about having

0:40:02.960 --> 0:40:05.879
<v Speaker 1>a lot of potential enemies because he had a lot

0:40:05.880 --> 0:40:11.120
<v Speaker 1>of potential projects. It's a nexus of speculation, and there's

0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:15.160
<v Speaker 1>a really there's a disturbing part here that I wish

0:40:15.200 --> 0:40:18.680
<v Speaker 1>some of those documentaries we mentioned spent more time on.

0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:23.200
<v Speaker 1>And it's this. So we've talked about CCTV before, closed

0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:28.080
<v Speaker 1>circuit television. This stuff is, you know, generally right now,

0:40:28.200 --> 0:40:33.200
<v Speaker 1>it's not all interconnected. Right, So, like the pizza shop

0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:35.719
<v Speaker 1>on one side of the street may have a couple

0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:40.239
<v Speaker 1>of security cameras, and the cupcake factory or whatever on

0:40:40.280 --> 0:40:41.879
<v Speaker 1>the other side of the street may have their own

0:40:41.920 --> 0:40:44.600
<v Speaker 1>set of cameras, but they don't really share data. The

0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:48.960
<v Speaker 1>thing is, law enforcement can legally obtain those, especially in

0:40:49.320 --> 0:40:51.840
<v Speaker 1>the case of an investigation of a heinous crime like

0:40:52.120 --> 0:40:58.480
<v Speaker 1>a murder. Wilmington in particular is inundated with cameras. It

0:40:58.560 --> 0:41:03.520
<v Speaker 1>is lousy with cameras. There's so so many, and we

0:41:03.680 --> 0:41:06.800
<v Speaker 1>know that they're therefore, there has to be more footage

0:41:07.280 --> 0:41:10.960
<v Speaker 1>of John Parsons Wheeler on that faithful night. But if

0:41:11.000 --> 0:41:15.520
<v Speaker 1>you look at law enforcement statements, you just don't see

0:41:15.520 --> 0:41:18.480
<v Speaker 1>that footage, you don't see the vast majority of what

0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:21.360
<v Speaker 1>could be out there, And looking at the facts alone,

0:41:21.920 --> 0:41:26.520
<v Speaker 1>it's plausible that this investigation was at some point and

0:41:26.680 --> 0:41:31.200
<v Speaker 1>from some high level stonewalled. Now that doesn't mean that

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:34.640
<v Speaker 1>someone you know working for miteror killed them, or working

0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:39.400
<v Speaker 1>for the CIA or you know, some other intelligence organization.

0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:43.239
<v Speaker 1>It just means that whoever murdered Wheeler, and whatever their

0:41:43.320 --> 0:41:47.680
<v Speaker 1>motivations for doing so were, there's something about the story

0:41:47.719 --> 0:41:50.279
<v Speaker 1>the US government actively does not want you to know.

0:41:50.520 --> 0:41:53.600
<v Speaker 3>Going even further than stonewalled, you could almost say manipulated

0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:54.760
<v Speaker 3>or compromised.

0:41:54.840 --> 0:41:57.959
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, maybe can I put something out there?

0:41:58.960 --> 0:42:03.600
<v Speaker 2>If I'm gonna this is insane, I'm just gonna say it.

0:42:04.160 --> 0:42:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Imagine the three of us. Imagine if for some reason,

0:42:10.280 --> 0:42:14.560
<v Speaker 2>iHeart was out to get us. All of our devices

0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:19.560
<v Speaker 2>are inextricably linked to iHeart. Doesn't mean they're tracking them necessarily,

0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:23.480
<v Speaker 2>but any use that we would have on our machines,

0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:27.360
<v Speaker 2>even on our phones, likely could be linked back to

0:42:27.440 --> 0:42:31.480
<v Speaker 2>that company in some way. And if we needed to

0:42:31.520 --> 0:42:35.200
<v Speaker 2>get away because we were being hunted for some reason,

0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:38.759
<v Speaker 2>we're not and we will never be by iHeart. A

0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:42.000
<v Speaker 2>good strategy maybe to get rid of all of those

0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:47.839
<v Speaker 2>potential links and devices. Sure, yeah, so I'm imagining that

0:42:47.880 --> 0:42:50.120
<v Speaker 2>there could be a scenario where John got rid of

0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:53.560
<v Speaker 2>all of that Miter Corporation stuff on purpose because he

0:42:53.680 --> 0:42:56.759
<v Speaker 2>wasn't trying to get away from somebody else. He was

0:42:57.000 --> 0:42:59.040
<v Speaker 2>maybe trying to get away from them.

0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, or maybe maybe trying to do something like do

0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:06.960
<v Speaker 1>a burn the village to save the village strategy and

0:43:07.040 --> 0:43:09.880
<v Speaker 1>maybe brick his devices. He would have he would have

0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:13.440
<v Speaker 1>known how to actually brick one two, how to make

0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:17.920
<v Speaker 1>that information as close to irretrievable as possible. But that

0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:21.879
<v Speaker 1>missing briefcase, that's one of the keys here. Who's never

0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:25.680
<v Speaker 1>without it. It's never been found. All we know about

0:43:25.760 --> 0:43:28.560
<v Speaker 1>what could have been in the briefcase is that it

0:43:28.719 --> 0:43:32.280
<v Speaker 1>must have been related to his cybersecurity work at Miter.

0:43:32.719 --> 0:43:36.680
<v Speaker 1>Well not must have, but that's the most likely scenario.

0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:38.520
<v Speaker 1>We just don't know.

0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:41.160
<v Speaker 3>You know. It reminds me of a show that I

0:43:41.200 --> 0:43:44.440
<v Speaker 3>worked on, Murder in Oregon, about the well, I mean,

0:43:44.560 --> 0:43:49.120
<v Speaker 3>it's it's conjectured by the folks who truly believe this

0:43:49.160 --> 0:43:54.799
<v Speaker 3>is what happened, That this public official was assassinated because

0:43:55.000 --> 0:43:58.080
<v Speaker 3>he knew too much about corruption in the Oregon State

0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:01.920
<v Speaker 3>prison system, and when he was killed, it was you know,

0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:05.040
<v Speaker 3>shocked up to being a mugging. He was stabbed in

0:44:05.080 --> 0:44:08.160
<v Speaker 3>the heart outside of his office building. But guess what

0:44:08.280 --> 0:44:13.840
<v Speaker 3>was missing when when they found his body a briefcase

0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:17.759
<v Speaker 3>full of the presentation materials. Back then it would have

0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:22.600
<v Speaker 3>been floppy discs before PowerPoint and cloud based stuff, and

0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:26.360
<v Speaker 3>supposedly that was never recovered, and that had this presentation

0:44:26.400 --> 0:44:28.080
<v Speaker 3>that he's about to give that was going to blow

0:44:28.120 --> 0:44:30.560
<v Speaker 3>the lid off of all this like literally cops like

0:44:31.000 --> 0:44:34.840
<v Speaker 3>smuggling meth out of prisons and into prisons and really horrible,

0:44:34.840 --> 0:44:38.000
<v Speaker 3>gnarly stuff. You know. Again, none of this has ever

0:44:38.040 --> 0:44:41.640
<v Speaker 3>been proven, but the case seems really strong and this

0:44:41.760 --> 0:44:44.000
<v Speaker 3>really has the same ring of that to me.

0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:47.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, and he was going to meet some people at

0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:49.640
<v Speaker 2>the corporate offices right in that building.

0:44:50.360 --> 0:44:54.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeay, he had been in the he had been meeting

0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:57.160
<v Speaker 1>wanting to meet with a legal team. He had also

0:44:57.440 --> 0:45:00.600
<v Speaker 1>been around the DuPont building at the same time. And

0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:04.799
<v Speaker 1>again he had emphasized to his family and to his

0:45:04.840 --> 0:45:08.239
<v Speaker 1>colleagues that he had to work even though it was

0:45:08.280 --> 0:45:09.759
<v Speaker 1>like the end of the year, like he had to

0:45:09.800 --> 0:45:13.439
<v Speaker 1>go in and knock out some incredibly crucial stuff with miter.

0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:17.719
<v Speaker 1>It is currently unknown whether the last several hours of

0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:21.239
<v Speaker 1>his life were spent in Wilmington or in Newark. There's

0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:27.279
<v Speaker 1>no conclusive murder scene that has been found, or at

0:45:27.320 --> 0:45:30.359
<v Speaker 1>least there's none that's been discussed with the public, and

0:45:30.520 --> 0:45:33.440
<v Speaker 1>if there's an exact time of death, that has also

0:45:33.880 --> 0:45:38.360
<v Speaker 1>not been released. In fact, going to my earlier theory

0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:42.400
<v Speaker 1>that there's some stonewalling or some oxcation here. On January

0:45:42.480 --> 0:45:46.239
<v Speaker 1>eighth of twenty eleven, just a few days after his

0:45:46.320 --> 0:45:50.640
<v Speaker 1>body was discovered, a Wilmington City councilman named Kevin Kelly

0:45:51.360 --> 0:45:56.560
<v Speaker 1>told police not to quote go overboard in investigating this

0:45:56.680 --> 0:46:00.960
<v Speaker 1>man's death at the time. Yeah, right, that's weird. It's like, okay, yeah,

0:46:01.000 --> 0:46:02.920
<v Speaker 1>look into this murder, but you guys, don't make it

0:46:02.960 --> 0:46:04.560
<v Speaker 1>a whole thing, you know.

0:46:05.280 --> 0:46:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Just a high profile person who pass in a very

0:46:09.400 --> 0:46:12.520
<v Speaker 2>strange way. Mm hm, and you say, don't don't worry

0:46:12.520 --> 0:46:12.920
<v Speaker 2>about it.

0:46:13.080 --> 0:46:17.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, chill bro Right. At the time of this recording

0:46:17.560 --> 0:46:21.840
<v Speaker 1>of our recording, any toxicology reports on Wheeler that may have,

0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:25.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, indicated some kind of substance in his body,

0:46:26.320 --> 0:46:30.439
<v Speaker 1>they are unavailable to the public. Medical examiners. I found

0:46:30.480 --> 0:46:34.239
<v Speaker 1>a couple sources saying that the examiners indicated they either

0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:38.200
<v Speaker 1>found no abnormal chemicals or nothing that played a role

0:46:38.239 --> 0:46:40.839
<v Speaker 1>in his demise. Because we have to remember, some substances

0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:45.640
<v Speaker 1>can be metabolized very quickly and they'll still have damaging effects.

0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:50.960
<v Speaker 1>But when you check the body afterwards, they'll be clean,

0:46:51.120 --> 0:46:53.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, and they'll have appeared to die of something

0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:57.440
<v Speaker 1>like asphyxiation or heart failure. Russia does polonium on purpose.

0:46:58.280 --> 0:47:00.440
<v Speaker 1>It's so that you know it's Russia. There are other

0:47:01.040 --> 0:47:04.920
<v Speaker 1>much much less apparent substances.

0:47:05.239 --> 0:47:07.920
<v Speaker 2>What was the stuff not Navalney got hit with in

0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:08.480
<v Speaker 2>his underwear?

0:47:08.600 --> 0:47:10.359
<v Speaker 1>Noviachok, novachok.

0:47:11.120 --> 0:47:13.680
<v Speaker 2>That's the the whole point, at least according to that

0:47:14.040 --> 0:47:16.839
<v Speaker 2>phone call. If you believe it was that it would

0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:18.600
<v Speaker 2>be untraceable, you'd have no idea what.

0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Happened, right, But then also, how much of an expert

0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:27.319
<v Speaker 1>is that guy If he's gonna talk about that stuff on.

0:47:27.280 --> 0:47:29.800
<v Speaker 2>The phone, well he's so yeah, Okay, come on, he

0:47:29.920 --> 0:47:32.920
<v Speaker 2>was allegedly, at least according to his belief, was talking

0:47:32.960 --> 0:47:34.200
<v Speaker 2>to one of his handlers.

0:47:34.480 --> 0:47:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, but yeah, all right, well, far be

0:47:38.080 --> 0:47:40.359
<v Speaker 1>it for us to criticize someone else just trying to

0:47:40.360 --> 0:47:43.879
<v Speaker 1>do their job. So in some ways this case does

0:47:43.920 --> 0:47:48.480
<v Speaker 1>bear similarities to that still unsolved death of Elisa lam

0:47:48.560 --> 0:47:52.520
<v Speaker 1>We have video footage, we have records of communication. What

0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:56.680
<v Speaker 1>we do not have, however, is anything like an explanation.

0:47:57.400 --> 0:47:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not even close.

0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:05.840
<v Speaker 1>And unlike the case of Lamb, it appears the world

0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:09.279
<v Speaker 1>at large has moved on from the mysterious death of

0:48:09.400 --> 0:48:10.080
<v Speaker 1>John Wheeler.

0:48:10.880 --> 0:48:14.960
<v Speaker 2>It really does seem that way. I'm thankful that Unsolved

0:48:15.000 --> 0:48:18.120
<v Speaker 2>Mysteries came back with this episode because it feels like

0:48:18.600 --> 0:48:21.360
<v Speaker 2>it's really jump started at least discussion online in a

0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:24.760
<v Speaker 2>lot of places because I think may it's been eleven

0:48:24.880 --> 0:48:29.560
<v Speaker 2>ten ten years, almost eleven years. No eleven years, God huh,

0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:34.840
<v Speaker 2>It's just it's been so long. And one of my

0:48:34.880 --> 0:48:38.400
<v Speaker 2>big questions coming away from this after reading everything, watching

0:48:38.400 --> 0:48:43.439
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff, there are two scenarios for me. One

0:48:44.000 --> 0:48:46.960
<v Speaker 2>is that he really was going through some kind of

0:48:47.200 --> 0:48:52.000
<v Speaker 2>mental state where he was either manic or super low

0:48:52.120 --> 0:48:56.120
<v Speaker 2>right where he was just going through something I'm not

0:48:56.320 --> 0:48:58.560
<v Speaker 2>confused is the wrong word, but he just what he

0:48:58.600 --> 0:49:03.360
<v Speaker 2>was focused on other things, and what we see in

0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:07.800
<v Speaker 2>the footage is him truly in a distressed, confused state

0:49:08.400 --> 0:49:10.320
<v Speaker 2>and he's not sure what's going on. He's trying to

0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:12.000
<v Speaker 2>find his car, then he gets lost. He has no

0:49:12.040 --> 0:49:14.840
<v Speaker 2>way to communicate because he doesn't have a cell phone's

0:49:15.160 --> 0:49:17.160
<v Speaker 2>he can't get back to his wife. Who would, you know,

0:49:17.560 --> 0:49:21.839
<v Speaker 2>like be his mental rock or another family member, somebody

0:49:21.880 --> 0:49:26.920
<v Speaker 2>familiar that would kind of help him. And he's cold,

0:49:27.000 --> 0:49:29.120
<v Speaker 2>he's in a different place. Maybe a car took him

0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:32.640
<v Speaker 2>to Newark and he didn't expect to go to Newark

0:49:32.680 --> 0:49:34.839
<v Speaker 2>for some reason, or somebody he got in a car

0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:39.239
<v Speaker 2>with with bad intentions took him to Newark instead of

0:49:39.280 --> 0:49:42.560
<v Speaker 2>where he wanted to go. And you know, that's one

0:49:42.600 --> 0:49:47.080
<v Speaker 2>potential thing. And along with that is maybe he was

0:49:47.239 --> 0:49:51.480
<v Speaker 2>cold and he climbed into a dumpster, which is a

0:49:51.520 --> 0:49:54.760
<v Speaker 2>common thing that occurs when it's very very cold outside

0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:57.520
<v Speaker 2>and there's no other place to go. Dumpsters are used

0:49:58.040 --> 0:50:02.400
<v Speaker 2>in that Unsolved Mysteries episode. There there's a few people

0:50:02.400 --> 0:50:04.480
<v Speaker 2>who work in that industry saying that, yeah, it's very

0:50:04.560 --> 0:50:07.759
<v Speaker 2>common for us to load the truck up to one

0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:10.200
<v Speaker 2>of these dumpsters, you put the forks in, and then

0:50:10.239 --> 0:50:12.239
<v Speaker 2>somebody will pop out the top or jump out the

0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:14.200
<v Speaker 2>side and be like who whoa whoa stop stop, I'm

0:50:14.200 --> 0:50:16.480
<v Speaker 2>in here, and I'm not saying that John Wood or

0:50:16.480 --> 0:50:20.280
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't do that. It's just a real possibility, right right.

0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:24.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Yeah, it's a real possibility, and it's an excellent point.

0:50:25.520 --> 0:50:27.640
<v Speaker 1>We do also need to point out that, you know,

0:50:27.760 --> 0:50:32.040
<v Speaker 1>the family, the survivors, his relatives, his friends, his colleagues

0:50:32.560 --> 0:50:38.240
<v Speaker 1>have all also you know, done their best hiring investigators,

0:50:38.280 --> 0:50:41.840
<v Speaker 1>putting out rewards for information, but still at this point

0:50:42.360 --> 0:50:48.040
<v Speaker 1>there seem to be no leads the like. The craziest

0:50:48.239 --> 0:50:53.400
<v Speaker 1>question is could could a government agency of some actor,

0:50:53.480 --> 0:50:57.520
<v Speaker 1>some state actor, or a faction thereof have targeted him

0:50:57.560 --> 0:51:00.960
<v Speaker 1>for his extensive high level knowledge. He knew a lot

0:51:01.000 --> 0:51:01.480
<v Speaker 1>of stuff.

0:51:01.840 --> 0:51:03.839
<v Speaker 2>You know they did, Yeah, he really did.

0:51:03.880 --> 0:51:06.000
<v Speaker 1>But the thing is he seems by all accounts to

0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:09.799
<v Speaker 1>be a real company man, like he's ideologically loyal. He

0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:14.360
<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem like he's the type to divulge secret intelligence,

0:51:14.560 --> 0:51:17.720
<v Speaker 1>to spill the to spill the espionage beans, or anything

0:51:17.840 --> 0:51:21.439
<v Speaker 1>like that. So then we have to ask, I don't

0:51:21.440 --> 0:51:23.440
<v Speaker 1>when you get all Jacob's ladder with this, but we

0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:26.240
<v Speaker 1>have to ask whether there might be a personal revenge

0:51:26.280 --> 0:51:29.160
<v Speaker 1>mode of at play. Could it have been something related

0:51:29.200 --> 0:51:32.359
<v Speaker 1>to Vietnam. There's no solid proof all that.

0:51:32.480 --> 0:51:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Or or that house or the house that house across

0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:37.319
<v Speaker 2>the street where he was trying to shut that thing down.

0:51:37.600 --> 0:51:40.759
<v Speaker 2>The Yeah, I think that's a real possibility that he

0:51:40.880 --> 0:51:45.200
<v Speaker 2>made a personal enemy somehow, one way or another. If

0:51:45.200 --> 0:51:46.720
<v Speaker 2>the other thing I want to bring up with that dumpster,

0:51:46.960 --> 0:51:49.239
<v Speaker 2>just really quickly, I'm sorry that I didn't finish that

0:51:49.280 --> 0:51:52.960
<v Speaker 2>thought there. If you're in a dumpster like that, imagine

0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:56.400
<v Speaker 2>the physics of one of these big forklift trucks picking

0:51:56.520 --> 0:51:58.759
<v Speaker 2>up a dumpster if you're inside of it, and then

0:51:58.880 --> 0:52:02.279
<v Speaker 2>dumping it forced into the back of a truck. Then

0:52:02.440 --> 0:52:04.919
<v Speaker 2>also think about the fact that a lot of those

0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:11.200
<v Speaker 2>dump trucks have a compressor function on purpose to compress trash.

0:52:11.600 --> 0:52:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Imagine if you got stuck in there, accidentally, are caught unawares,

0:52:16.480 --> 0:52:19.080
<v Speaker 2>get dumped in there, and then get crushed to a

0:52:19.080 --> 0:52:23.600
<v Speaker 2>certain extent. The injuries that are shown on that report,

0:52:24.040 --> 0:52:27.640
<v Speaker 2>like crushed ribs, like he appeared to have been beaten up.

0:52:27.880 --> 0:52:32.800
<v Speaker 2>But I'm wondering this sounds so silly, and I don't

0:52:32.800 --> 0:52:36.040
<v Speaker 2>mean to discount the work of any corner of any

0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:41.120
<v Speaker 2>medical examiners. But like, I'm trying to imagine how much

0:52:41.200 --> 0:52:43.400
<v Speaker 2>damage would be done to a human body if it

0:52:43.520 --> 0:52:47.560
<v Speaker 2>went through that process. If you're in a lot of

0:52:48.360 --> 0:52:52.160
<v Speaker 2>fairly malleable trash, how much would a human body actually

0:52:52.200 --> 0:52:56.719
<v Speaker 2>get crushed? Would it be to the extent where you

0:52:56.719 --> 0:53:00.359
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't recognize the damage was being done because you would

0:53:00.400 --> 0:53:04.880
<v Speaker 2>have differing points hitting the body, right, Like, I know

0:53:04.960 --> 0:53:07.600
<v Speaker 2>it's weird to get into the physics of what that

0:53:07.640 --> 0:53:10.279
<v Speaker 2>would be like, but I'm just in my mind, like,

0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:13.600
<v Speaker 2>what if it was just him being in that compactor

0:53:13.640 --> 0:53:16.880
<v Speaker 2>that caused the damage? Tell me if that's stupid.

0:53:16.920 --> 0:53:19.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, it's not stupid at all. But even

0:53:19.760 --> 0:53:21.960
<v Speaker 1>if the thing is, even if that's the case, it

0:53:22.000 --> 0:53:25.200
<v Speaker 1>doesn't explain some of those other things leading up to

0:53:26.360 --> 0:53:27.680
<v Speaker 1>their demise, Right.

0:53:27.560 --> 0:53:27.719
<v Speaker 2>So.

0:53:29.719 --> 0:53:32.160
<v Speaker 1>If it is, if it is something like that, it's

0:53:32.239 --> 0:53:34.799
<v Speaker 1>it's still I would say, no, less tragic. That's a

0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:37.960
<v Speaker 1>horrible way to go, especially when you're already having what

0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:44.319
<v Speaker 1>appears to be a very hectic and unpleasant series of days. Yeah,

0:53:44.360 --> 0:53:48.640
<v Speaker 1>it's quite it's quite possible. It's also possible that maybe

0:53:48.719 --> 0:53:53.480
<v Speaker 1>he was beaten before. Maybe maybe he was beaten near

0:53:53.600 --> 0:53:56.680
<v Speaker 1>to the point of death and then escaped into a

0:53:56.760 --> 0:54:00.600
<v Speaker 1>dumpster to hide. It is possible. Again, all the things

0:54:00.600 --> 0:54:04.720
<v Speaker 1>that we're saying right now are possible but not proven.

0:54:05.040 --> 0:54:07.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, there are questions that have just become tougher

0:54:07.960 --> 0:54:13.440
<v Speaker 1>to answer over time, because again, in my opinion, something

0:54:13.520 --> 0:54:16.719
<v Speaker 1>was up with the investigation on some level. What would

0:54:16.760 --> 0:54:18.040
<v Speaker 1>you say about that, Matt.

0:54:18.080 --> 0:54:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean from what we found there from Kevin Kelly,

0:54:22.640 --> 0:54:26.160
<v Speaker 2>that seems off. That seems really really off. This was

0:54:26.200 --> 0:54:30.239
<v Speaker 2>a high profile person that was you know, appeared to

0:54:30.239 --> 0:54:33.280
<v Speaker 2>be beloved in many circles, especially in the upper echelons

0:54:33.320 --> 0:54:36.399
<v Speaker 2>of at least the Republican Party, if not you know,

0:54:36.640 --> 0:54:43.239
<v Speaker 2>the without using the phrase deep state, the non elected

0:54:43.320 --> 0:54:44.920
<v Speaker 2>parts of the government.

0:54:46.200 --> 0:54:52.239
<v Speaker 1>Right right, Yeah, one thing is for sure. Something about this,

0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:56.759
<v Speaker 1>if not the direct murder or a homicide or accidental death,

0:54:58.280 --> 0:55:04.600
<v Speaker 1>something about this appear orchestrated. It appears that someone had

0:55:04.640 --> 0:55:07.640
<v Speaker 1>a plan and whatever this was, it was not a

0:55:07.719 --> 0:55:13.200
<v Speaker 1>random break in and a random Mugging's something was at place.

0:55:13.280 --> 0:55:18.319
<v Speaker 1>Something was afoot. But what you know, Matt, I know

0:55:18.360 --> 0:55:22.880
<v Speaker 1>we're in deep water here because we're we're exchanging theories,

0:55:22.960 --> 0:55:29.279
<v Speaker 1>we're sharing possibilities, but without access to more information or

0:55:29.320 --> 0:55:34.239
<v Speaker 1>a deathbed confession or something. I think everybody is at

0:55:34.280 --> 0:55:37.640
<v Speaker 1>a loss to explain this. A lot of the things

0:55:37.640 --> 0:55:42.880
<v Speaker 1>we just mentioned are currently equally plausible or equally possible.

0:55:42.880 --> 0:55:45.640
<v Speaker 2>I should say, well, we want to know what you think.

0:55:45.800 --> 0:55:50.600
<v Speaker 2>What happened to John Parsons Wheeler The third right to us.

0:55:50.600 --> 0:55:52.960
<v Speaker 2>You can find us on Facebook. You can find us

0:55:53.000 --> 0:55:58.000
<v Speaker 2>on Twitter. We're conspiracy stuff at both of those. On Instagram,

0:55:58.000 --> 0:56:00.799
<v Speaker 2>we are Conspiracy Stuff Show. You can also head on

0:56:00.920 --> 0:56:04.480
<v Speaker 2>over to our Facebook group Here's where it Gets Crazy.

0:56:04.600 --> 0:56:07.040
<v Speaker 2>A you like that, it's just like our segment that's

0:56:07.080 --> 0:56:09.640
<v Speaker 2>been on the show since the beginning. You can go

0:56:09.640 --> 0:56:12.759
<v Speaker 2>over there and hang out with listeners just like you

0:56:12.880 --> 0:56:17.040
<v Speaker 2>have discussions. You will be surprised at how excellent an

0:56:17.080 --> 0:56:22.560
<v Speaker 2>online discussion can be about topics like this. It's it's wonderful.

0:56:22.840 --> 0:56:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Highly recommend it.

0:56:23.920 --> 0:56:28.080
<v Speaker 1>And update from from the Here's where it Gets Crazy front.

0:56:28.280 --> 0:56:32.719
<v Speaker 1>Apparently there's talk about writing a stuff they don't want

0:56:32.760 --> 0:56:36.960
<v Speaker 1>you to know a piece of fan fiction. Yeah, yep,

0:56:37.239 --> 0:56:42.200
<v Speaker 1>so is it romantic? I don't know. We're we're not

0:56:42.320 --> 0:56:44.600
<v Speaker 1>in charge of This is from Holly, one of your

0:56:44.640 --> 0:56:51.240
<v Speaker 1>fellow listeners, So we will be having it. We will

0:56:51.280 --> 0:56:54.360
<v Speaker 1>be figuring it out at the same time you do. Folks.

0:56:55.520 --> 0:56:59.120
<v Speaker 1>One nice note, it looks like this might be used

0:56:59.160 --> 0:57:03.680
<v Speaker 1>potentially to raise money for some charities in the Marshall Islands.

0:57:04.320 --> 0:57:06.400
<v Speaker 1>So oh wow, so you can be for a good cause.

0:57:07.239 --> 0:57:09.600
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, that's that's the That's some of the stuff

0:57:09.880 --> 0:57:12.440
<v Speaker 1>that you will see on here's where it gets crazy.

0:57:12.600 --> 0:57:17.760
<v Speaker 1>If you are not given to exploring social media, totally

0:57:17.840 --> 0:57:21.080
<v Speaker 1>get it. You can call us directly. We have a

0:57:21.160 --> 0:57:25.000
<v Speaker 1>phone line that we are doing a great job at

0:57:25.080 --> 0:57:28.919
<v Speaker 1>now keep you track of It is one eight three

0:57:29.000 --> 0:57:33.160
<v Speaker 1>three st d w yt K. You call, you'll hear

0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:36.040
<v Speaker 1>a voicemail message telling you you're in the right place.

0:57:36.120 --> 0:57:39.920
<v Speaker 1>You get three minutes. They belong to you. Do what

0:57:40.400 --> 0:57:43.400
<v Speaker 1>thou wilt shall be the whole of the telephone law.

0:57:44.240 --> 0:57:47.800
<v Speaker 1>But but we do have a concept for Yeah, but

0:57:47.880 --> 0:57:50.680
<v Speaker 1>we have a couple of recommendations that may be helpful

0:57:50.760 --> 0:57:53.600
<v Speaker 1>for you if you find yourself kind of like scrambling.

0:57:53.880 --> 0:57:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, first thing, go ahead and tell us what

0:57:56.400 --> 0:57:58.280
<v Speaker 2>you want us to call you on air. Doesn't have

0:57:58.280 --> 0:58:01.400
<v Speaker 2>to be your real name. Whatever you want Malkovich is fine.

0:58:01.520 --> 0:58:04.360
<v Speaker 2>We'll just call everybody Malcavich then let us know if

0:58:04.440 --> 0:58:08.080
<v Speaker 2>we can use your message on the air. Really, I mean,

0:58:08.120 --> 0:58:10.480
<v Speaker 2>if you call it, I don't want to limit you

0:58:10.600 --> 0:58:12.480
<v Speaker 2>if you call in, we really want to use it

0:58:12.480 --> 0:58:15.120
<v Speaker 2>on the air. Just let us know if it's okay.

0:58:16.000 --> 0:58:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Then after that tell us your message. Try and keep

0:58:18.640 --> 0:58:21.640
<v Speaker 2>it as brief as you possibly can. If you end

0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:24.920
<v Speaker 2>up needing to, you know, tell a longer story or something,

0:58:24.960 --> 0:58:28.160
<v Speaker 2>we would recommend rather than leaving it on the voicemail,

0:58:28.520 --> 0:58:30.560
<v Speaker 2>go ahead and send us an email. And many of

0:58:30.600 --> 0:58:33.320
<v Speaker 2>you have been doing this already. Thank you so much

0:58:33.360 --> 0:58:36.000
<v Speaker 2>for listening and for just you know, doing this. It

0:58:36.040 --> 0:58:38.280
<v Speaker 2>really does help us out. We can we can get

0:58:38.320 --> 0:58:40.600
<v Speaker 2>through an email message pretty quickly. If you want to

0:58:40.640 --> 0:58:43.920
<v Speaker 2>send us an email, it's really easy. Shoot us a message.

0:58:43.960 --> 0:59:06.040
<v Speaker 5>We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

0:59:08.520 --> 0:59:13.080
<v Speaker 2>of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:59:13.160 --> 0:59:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.