Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow
Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick.
Speaker 1: In today, We've got a treat for you. It's going
Speaker 1: to be a special bonus conversation with Brett Wood, the
Speaker 1: creator of the house Stuff Works podcast The Control Group.
Speaker 1: That's right. We've been needed to do this for a
Speaker 1: little bit, ever since The Control Group came out over
Speaker 1: the summer, because we really think Stuff to Blow in
Speaker 1: your Mind listeners will enjoy the show. It touches on
Speaker 1: a number of things that we've discussed in the past
Speaker 1: on this show. Uh, And so we're like, oh, we should,
Speaker 1: we should talk to Bratt, have him in the studio
Speaker 1: and maybe we can we can throw this at the
Speaker 1: end of an episode, at the beginning of old episode,
Speaker 1: but it ended up being just such a good little
Speaker 1: chat we thought we just put it out in its
Speaker 1: own neat little package. That's right. We had a great
Speaker 1: time talking to Brett and we hope you enjoy our conversation. Hey, Brett,
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us on the show today. Can you
Speaker 1: tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? Introduce yourself. Sure,
Speaker 1: I'm Brett Wood. I'm the writer and director of the
Speaker 1: Control Group. But I'm also a filmmaker, independent filmmaker and
Speaker 1: have been very involved in uh film restoration. I've written
Speaker 1: about film history a lot. So I'm kind of a
Speaker 1: movie guy who discovered uh the wonderful possibilities of the podcast.
Speaker 1: So here I am. And so you have a podcast
Speaker 1: on our network right now and in the Stuff Media
Speaker 1: group of us tell us about the Control Group. The
Speaker 1: Control Group is a ten parts of scripted drama podcast
Speaker 1: and it revisits a sort of fascinating period of history,
Speaker 1: the early nineties sixties when the CIA was doing two
Speaker 1: interesting things. On one hand, conducting secret drug experimentation for
Speaker 1: the sake of finding a a an effective method of
Speaker 1: mind control. At the same time, sort of funding medical
Speaker 1: research for the same purpose, UH in public institutions through
Speaker 1: a phantom organization. And these two phenomena have sort of
Speaker 1: been discussed in sort of the the secret history subculture
Speaker 1: that we all love. And so what I did is
Speaker 1: sort of narrativised them and combined them into one story
Speaker 1: and let them play off each other. Oh. So we've
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about this historical period on the
Speaker 1: show before, and I assume on the podcast I I
Speaker 1: have started listening and I'm hooked now. I haven't made
Speaker 1: it to the end of the season yet, but I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what happens. I assume you
Speaker 1: get into Project Artichoke, Bluebird, that kind of thing. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And what's funny is a lot of people who were
Speaker 1: involved in these things never knew they were involved in
Speaker 1: these things, because, especially in the medical research, no one
Speaker 1: wanted to be working for the CIA or feeling like
Speaker 1: what they were doing is for government use espionage, so
Speaker 1: they kind of covered that up. And we would never
Speaker 1: have known about MK Ultra and Bluebird, nart a Choke,
Speaker 1: and Naomi if it weren't for sort of the accidental
Speaker 1: survival of certain records, which people were then able to
Speaker 1: go back and piece together and sort of create a
Speaker 1: narrative of what, you know, what had gone on here.
Speaker 1: And now some of this information is declassified, right right,
Speaker 1: but there's very little actual information about what they were
Speaker 1: doing other than it all sort of came together through
Speaker 1: financial records and it was pieced together, and then that
Speaker 1: gay people names interviews could be conducted and so we
Speaker 1: have a pretty good understanding of what went on, but
Speaker 1: not the thorough documentation of you know, government research programs today.
Speaker 1: And so the context here, if I'm not mistaken, it
Speaker 1: would be basically Cold war research into the idea of
Speaker 1: how how you could get information out of people, interrogation
Speaker 1: techniques and maybe even control people's behavior without them being
Speaker 1: conscious of it, right, and Americans always wanted a quick,
Speaker 1: an effective solution that was more science e kind of
Speaker 1: James Bondi and as opposed to sort of a long
Speaker 1: term psychological approach. You know, they wanted something you could
Speaker 1: slip in someone's glass, a dart, you could shoot in
Speaker 1: someone's neck and have that kind of control. But it
Speaker 1: just doesn't work that way. But you know, there is
Speaker 1: confidence that it could work that way, and so they
Speaker 1: applied a lot of their forces to coming up with
Speaker 1: this you know, magic bullet that would let you either
Speaker 1: affect someone's thoughts or mind them find out what they're thinking.
Speaker 1: One of the things I love about The Control Group
Speaker 1: and it is is a lovely show. I recommend all
Speaker 1: our listeners to check it out, for sure, But but
Speaker 1: one of the things I love is that it's it's
Speaker 1: It's obviously not just a situation where someone steps in
Speaker 1: and says, hey, I represent CIA. We're up to some
Speaker 1: sinister stuff. You're a sinister scientist. Let's do some experimentations
Speaker 1: on people. Uh. It does a really great job, especially
Speaker 1: early on, of of establishing you know this, the sense
Speaker 1: of of push and pull that would uh, that would
Speaker 1: see a professional end up and involved in projects like this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they kind of um, you know, of play to someone's
Speaker 1: ego and uh, you know, if you're a medical professional
Speaker 1: in a someone's willing to fund your research almost without limit.
Speaker 1: And also say, you know, telling you you're onto something big,
Speaker 1: I think if you just push it a little further,
Speaker 1: go ahead and do that thing that ordinarily you might
Speaker 1: be reluctant to do, because I think you're gonna you're
Speaker 1: gonna break through, you know, onto something big. And it's
Speaker 1: about how you wear down someone's uh, moral resistance or
Speaker 1: their ethics. You know, you know, we have certain ethical
Speaker 1: barriers which serve us well and serve our fellow humans well,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times in this for the sake
Speaker 1: of the greater good, people want to push those barriers down. Well,
Speaker 1: we've got it. We've got to tackle this problem now,
Speaker 1: so let's not worry so much about experimenting on animals,
Speaker 1: experience many on people. You know, this is such an
Speaker 1: urgent issue, we've got to solve it at all costs.
Speaker 1: And once you drop your moral barriers, your ethical barriers,
Speaker 1: then it opens you up to all sorts of dangerous
Speaker 1: abuses of power, and we've seen that a few times
Speaker 1: in our in our history. Yes, well, you know what
Speaker 1: we're talking about a podcast, We're talking about an audio experience.
Speaker 1: So let's let's just take a short break to listen
Speaker 1: to the trailer for the Control Group for anyone who
Speaker 1: hasn't heard it, and then we'll come back in and
Speaker 1: discuss it some more. This is a time of great
Speaker 1: opportunity for us for modern medicine. Advancements are being made
Speaker 1: every day. For more than seventy five years, the Central
Speaker 1: State Hospital at New Canaan has provided treatment for those
Speaker 1: with mental disabilities. But in recent weeks something has changed.
Speaker 1: One of our doctors has adopted methods of treatment that
Speaker 1: are more experimental in nature, methods one might consider ethically questionable.
Speaker 1: The Control Group is a ten part scripted drama. Subscribe
Speaker 1: for free on Apple Podcasts and never miss an episode.
Speaker 1: Is that what you think I'm doing inflicting harm? To
Speaker 1: be honest, I don't understand what you're doing. And that's
Speaker 1: what frightens me the most. The control group from how
Speaker 1: stuff works. All right, we're back, So so Brett, tell
Speaker 1: me one thing that I was thinking about. We already
Speaker 1: talked about some of the historical examples that are essentially
Speaker 1: the bedrock upon which this, this, uh, this fictional drama
Speaker 1: is is created. Um, what was it like to to
Speaker 1: to build with the both these historical elements and then
Speaker 1: fictional elements. I'm I'm always your minded in cases like
Speaker 1: this of something that Umberto Eco wrote about in reference
Speaker 1: to the Name of the Rose, where he said that
Speaker 1: he would have this this list of of weird but
Speaker 1: historically factual tidbits, and then he would have the things
Speaker 1: that he just made up because they worked in a
Speaker 1: narrative sense in a fictional sense. And often people reading
Speaker 1: the Name of the Rose would confuse the two. They'd assume, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this is too weird or too modern. You must have
Speaker 1: made this up well, and then likewise, the things that
Speaker 1: feel right they would just assume that this was just
Speaker 1: part of the history. How does this relate to your
Speaker 1: experience with control group. It's it's very relevant because just
Speaker 1: today I as I. Occasionally we'll go back and RELI
Speaker 1: listener reviews and comments, and one person said, like, this
Speaker 1: is totally unbelievable, and it would be funny to like
Speaker 1: lay it out and sort of show, actually, this happened,
Speaker 1: this happened, this happened, And the things that I've created
Speaker 1: are there's really not that much that I've done. It's
Speaker 1: episode ten. I take a big sort of speculative leap,
Speaker 1: and I won't spoil it until you get there. Um.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, the things that are in
Speaker 1: the show are things that actually happened, with something called
Speaker 1: the deep patterning, which is using UH drugs and shock
Speaker 1: therapy to sort of flatten someone's brain waves and basically
Speaker 1: erase their memory and make them a blank slate, psychic driving,
Speaker 1: which is too play, repetitive messages and headphones or in
Speaker 1: speakers implanted in a bed continuously around the clock. Like,
Speaker 1: these are all things that happened. And one thing that
Speaker 1: some people are disturbed by is something that's amidst all
Speaker 1: this horror. It's pretty subtle, but was still very much
Speaker 1: a part of this is sort of the inherent sexism
Speaker 1: of what was going on, because it was frequently men
Speaker 1: controlling women because women were perceived as being more malleable
Speaker 1: and passive. And and to me, that's the thing that
Speaker 1: sort of shows how we're crossing over from a doctor
Speaker 1: lower r his ethical standards to a person who is
Speaker 1: allowing themselves to be morally corrupted or you know, instead
Speaker 1: of crossing a professional boundary, now they're crossing crossing a
Speaker 1: personal boundary and that and I think the two are
Speaker 1: almost interchangeable. When you start lowering one, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: social ethical restraint, others start to fall and it becomes
Speaker 1: this horror story of it's not only about medical research
Speaker 1: and mind control now now it's about you know, men
Speaker 1: abusing women or men feeling that they have the right
Speaker 1: to control women and women within in the early nineties
Speaker 1: when there's not a lot of power, when the women
Speaker 1: were the nurses and the men with the doctors, how
Speaker 1: can a woman fight against that? And so I tried
Speaker 1: to make that a very important component of the control
Speaker 1: group and also like one of the sources of frustration
Speaker 1: and horror when you listen to the show, because that's
Speaker 1: something we can relate to we can all relate to, yeah,
Speaker 1: getting electric convulsive therapy and you know those kinds of things.
Speaker 1: So your background is in film. Did you originally conceive
Speaker 1: the Control Group as a film project and if so,
Speaker 1: how did the transition to audio format go. Yes, it
Speaker 1: was intended as a feature film, and it had script
Speaker 1: and we have found locations and I was in the
Speaker 1: process of casting it. Very low budget kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: and we were going to shoot it at an actual, uh,
Speaker 1: what had been a medical facility which is no longer
Speaker 1: in use, and that is where a lot of the
Speaker 1: architecture of the Control Group, even though it's audio only
Speaker 1: comes from of this sort of modern facility that adjoins
Speaker 1: this creaky old mansion that was very much part of
Speaker 1: the space we were going to shoot it. And it's
Speaker 1: funny that same uh, modern building connected to this um
Speaker 1: sort of monument to the past is pretty common in
Speaker 1: big statemental hospitals in Millageville. Here in Georgia you have
Speaker 1: the same thing. You have these ultramodern buildings sitting alongside
Speaker 1: these crumbling Victorian buildings. So that was where we were
Speaker 1: going to shoot. But when they reviewed the script prior
Speaker 1: to our shooting, they Withdrew permission for us to film there,
Speaker 1: and so this project went on the shelf, and I
Speaker 1: chose something else that I had in my other script drawer,
Speaker 1: which was very simple and inexpensive to film, so I
Speaker 1: did that instead, and it's a film called The Unwanted.
Speaker 1: You can stream it on Amazon um And so adapting
Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun because for a two
Speaker 1: hour movie you have to you have to be very concise.
Speaker 1: Everything has to be short and quick and move along.
Speaker 1: But suddenly to have this expanded canvas of a ten
Speaker 1: episode podcast and having like five hours in which tell
Speaker 1: the story was very liberating. And then I think the
Speaker 1: thing I love the best is that certain things that
Speaker 1: are cheesy when you do it on film, hallucination, no
Speaker 1: one can do like an acid trip. On film, It's
Speaker 1: always gonna be cheesy. It's never going to quite be
Speaker 1: you know. It's it's someone's visual representation of the unrepresentable.
Speaker 1: But with audio you can kind of cross that line
Speaker 1: much more easily, and and sometimes what you imagine is
Speaker 1: much more effective and much worse than what I would
Speaker 1: have been able to as a filmmaker put on screen.
Speaker 1: So like and even like the Horrors of Shop treatment.
Speaker 1: If I had tried to stage that on film, would
Speaker 1: have probably looked, I don't know, kind of conventional, or
Speaker 1: it would have that when you just hear the sound
Speaker 1: of someone like a convulsing on a gurney and you know,
Speaker 1: choking with the mouth piece in their mouth, that's to me,
Speaker 1: that's much more visceral and what you in your mind
Speaker 1: create as much more effective and affecting than you know,
Speaker 1: what I would have literally represented for that. So the
Speaker 1: cast of the Control Group is excellent. Everybody really really
Speaker 1: brings it. Is this the same team that you've assembled
Speaker 1: for the film or do you assemble a different team
Speaker 1: for the audio of how did how did this come together? Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally different team. Because the film was going to be
Speaker 1: years ago and I hadn't fully cast it yet, And
Speaker 1: in between making The Unwanted, I made another film called
Speaker 1: Those Who Deserve to Die, which is sort of a
Speaker 1: supernatural revenge film which we're just completing so it's not
Speaker 1: out yet, And and that brought me in contact with,
Speaker 1: you know, another bunch of actors. And so the cast
Speaker 1: of the Control Group is basically all these actors I've
Speaker 1: worked with in previous films. So there's someone from those
Speaker 1: who deserve to die someone from the Control Group. And
Speaker 1: also in one of the other hats I wear is
Speaker 1: doing some like film and video production and things like that,
Speaker 1: and I've dubbed foreign films into English, which is a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. And so I've used some of the
Speaker 1: voice actors from that process. So I had a little
Speaker 1: bit of experience in sort of constructing a film and
Speaker 1: they're of audio only, UM, so that I definitely used
Speaker 1: all my tools from the film toolbox in making the
Speaker 1: Control Group. Now Joe and I were off Mike here.
Speaker 1: We were already chatting a little bit about movies of
Speaker 1: the past, and Joe and I talked a lot about
Speaker 1: especially B movies um on the show. So we have
Speaker 1: to ask you, well, what are your favorite mental hospital
Speaker 1: films and did you draw inspiration from any of them
Speaker 1: for the Control Group. Oh, that's a good question. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't not be aware of one Flew
Speaker 1: Over the Cuckoo's Nest just because it is like the
Speaker 1: big one. But Sam Fuller shot Corridor was definitely influential.
Speaker 1: But there was also some lesser known films that I
Speaker 1: like a lot. There's one called The Caretakers, which is
Speaker 1: very interesting and the snake Pit, of course, and u
Speaker 1: uh John Cassavetti's A Child as Waiting, even though it's
Speaker 1: about sort of a hospital for children with you know,
Speaker 1: mental retardation and developmental disabilities, but still these ideas of
Speaker 1: this sort of clinical setting, which some of these movies
Speaker 1: are about the horror of a mental hospital and some
Speaker 1: of them are about this is modern medicine, this is
Speaker 1: this is hope. And so I kind of like for
Speaker 1: my world to be a little bit of both. It's
Speaker 1: a place where there are people who are genuinely interested
Speaker 1: in providing health care and looking for the latest and
Speaker 1: you know, some new means of treatment, but also a
Speaker 1: place where you know, uh, certain treatments are being performed
Speaker 1: that are maybe in ten years not going to be
Speaker 1: looked upon as the most humane. Another thing Robert and
Speaker 1: I have talked about before is how you know, there's
Speaker 1: certain professions that are very very often demonized in film.
Speaker 1: You know, you almost never, like unless it's a vampire
Speaker 1: of you almost never get a priest character who's good,
Speaker 1: you know, And I feel like the psychiatrist is a
Speaker 1: character who's kind of like that is very very often
Speaker 1: a creepy villain in the film, and I know that,
Speaker 1: and obviously I don't feel that about psychiatrists in real life.
Speaker 1: I mean, most mental health care professionals are people who
Speaker 1: are devoting their lives to try to help people. But
Speaker 1: I wonder if that reveals some kind of underlying anxiety
Speaker 1: that people have about the mental health treatment relationship. And
Speaker 1: so I wonder if doing this show, especially based on
Speaker 1: historical examples, where this relationship that's supposed to be a
Speaker 1: positive one that's supposed to help people heal, could go very,
Speaker 1: very wrong and very abusive. Um. Did did that inform
Speaker 1: your your ideas about that anxiety, that cultural anxiety we
Speaker 1: have And I didn't think about it specifically, But you know,
Speaker 1: all this stuff is like we carried around with us,
Speaker 1: especially if we love movies, then we have the whether
Speaker 1: we're that conscious of it or not. UM. But you know,
Speaker 1: psychiatrists are the Frankenstein's of the twenty one century. You know,
Speaker 1: back then the horror was digging up a body to
Speaker 1: anatomize the corpse. That was sort of the foundation of
Speaker 1: the horror of Frankenstein. Of surgery, you actually got to
Speaker 1: cut into a body. You know, now we've grown used
Speaker 1: to that. That's science. And so now it's profaning you know,
Speaker 1: the body by opening up the mind and you know,
Speaker 1: taking something that's supposed to be uh, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: invading the sanctity of the mind. That doctors seem to
Speaker 1: have this uncanny power to open crack open the head
Speaker 1: as an expression we use in the control group. Um, So,
Speaker 1: I think it's not so much like you said, It's
Speaker 1: not that we distrust doctors and psychiatrists necessarily. It's more
Speaker 1: the fact that they seem to have this power which
Speaker 1: we don't fully under stand, but possibly have this power
Speaker 1: over us that intimidates us. That you know, they may
Speaker 1: know us better than we know ourselves and be able
Speaker 1: to unleash something within us that we didn't know was there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think, well, it's something you touch on in episodes
Speaker 1: of the show, is the idea that psychiatry makes people
Speaker 1: maybe feel vulnerable because of its potential access to secrets
Speaker 1: which people don't want. The things people don't want known
Speaker 1: are potentially knowable by someone who knows how to look
Speaker 1: for them. Yeah, and you know, and and uh, and
Speaker 1: nobody wants to have their secrets known, right, especially if
Speaker 1: they don't know them first. Yeah, it's like you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of would not spill out a dream I
Speaker 1: had and let somebody else, you know, uh, analyze it
Speaker 1: until I kind of understood it myself. And I sort
Speaker 1: of feel like it's the same sort of thing. And um,
Speaker 1: so there's that protection of yourself that you don't know yet.
Speaker 1: But then there's also the the uh, the minding of secrets.
Speaker 1: There are things that I know that I don't want
Speaker 1: to tell anyone, and the fact that someone else may
Speaker 1: be able to get that out of me is a
Speaker 1: little frightening, right, Not me personally, of course, I'm an
Speaker 1: open book. Well, I mean, it's interesting you say that,
Speaker 1: because I mean a creative project like this, you are,
Speaker 1: in a sense taking a dream of your own, analyzing
Speaker 1: it and then putting it out for everyone else, uh
Speaker 1: to to to see and and reanalyze and say, who
Speaker 1: is this Brett Wood? And and uh and why does
Speaker 1: he think like this? And quite often I realized things
Speaker 1: about myself that as people pointed out I as people
Speaker 1: point it out, I say, huh, maybe I you know,
Speaker 1: I knew I have certain tendencies in me, and maybe
Speaker 1: there's more tendencies or you know, there's more things like
Speaker 1: this than I realized. And also when you make a
Speaker 1: film or when you create a big project like this,
Speaker 1: you don't want to analyze it too much because you
Speaker 1: have to kind of. I've always been a strong believer
Speaker 1: in writing from the gut, don't sensor your elf, don't uh,
Speaker 1: don't understand it too well, just do whatever it takes
Speaker 1: to open up the faucet and let the words flow.
Speaker 1: And it is, you know, like a form of therapy
Speaker 1: that you let this stuff out, you know, and you
Speaker 1: want to dig into the weird stuff that no one
Speaker 1: else or not many other people are digging into so
Speaker 1: and all my films and in the control group, and
Speaker 1: hopefully as we move forward, I'm going to continue to
Speaker 1: do that. And you know, of course, you as you
Speaker 1: do that, you make sure you're doing something that is
Speaker 1: not morally reprehensible, and you there's some purpose to what
Speaker 1: you're doing. But I think it's it's important for the
Speaker 1: artists to not completely understand their work, because once you
Speaker 1: understand something, then there's no longer any reason to explore it.
Speaker 1: So for me, for better or worse, it's taking that
Speaker 1: kind of muck out of the inside of me, putting
Speaker 1: it on a table and then just kind of like
Speaker 1: fishing around in and and seeing what's there and turning
Speaker 1: it into a narrative and putting it in people's ears.
Speaker 1: I think we just mentioned this on the show recently,
Speaker 1: but I often think it's hilarious when like an interviewer
Speaker 1: asks a creative person to explain their novel in terms
Speaker 1: of their autobiography. Just is that's somebody else's job. Come on,
Speaker 1: But I'm sure that like after they read it and
Speaker 1: then after they've heard feedback, they probably discover all sorts
Speaker 1: of things about themselves that they were not really thinking
Speaker 1: of when it was being written. Because you know, any
Speaker 1: time you write or even do any kind of like
Speaker 1: extemporaneous speaking, you're just like letting it flow out and
Speaker 1: you can't stop and understand it as the words are
Speaker 1: coming out. So it's it's kind of the a fun thing.
Speaker 1: It's like improv you know, it's kind of nice to
Speaker 1: turn the creative faucet on and sort of see what
Speaker 1: comes out, and hopefully you know, you still have your
Speaker 1: friends and relationships after you've done so well. In that case,
Speaker 1: maybe allow me to illicitly ask you to summarize what
Speaker 1: your work means, if you if you expect people to
Speaker 1: come away from the control group with a with a
Speaker 1: thought or a message or a takeaway. What do you
Speaker 1: what do you think that thought is? Well? On a
Speaker 1: broader canvas, all my work is about people who are
Speaker 1: trying to escape some sort of control um, whether it's
Speaker 1: someone is a morally oppressive force, and how they find
Speaker 1: ways to um, you know, to resist that oppression and
Speaker 1: find a way of expressing themselves. And usually it has
Speaker 1: to do with sexual matters. UM. That's kind of the
Speaker 1: thing that people are and I think today are most
Speaker 1: commonly oppressed, you know, by having the freedom to express
Speaker 1: themselves sexually or the kind of partner they want to choose, UM,
Speaker 1: and how you get around that. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: the core of my films. And maybe that's not so
Speaker 1: much specific to the control group, but the control group
Speaker 1: is about someone oppressing you and how do you maintain
Speaker 1: your individuality and not completely succumbed to this force that's
Speaker 1: trying to shape you into not only something that's socially
Speaker 1: and morally acceptable, but maybe something that is shaping you
Speaker 1: into something that doesn't have feelings and doesn't have feel
Speaker 1: like it can express itself. So I think it's about specifically,
Speaker 1: then if what I would say someone should come away
Speaker 1: from the Control Group thinking about would be that, um,
Speaker 1: there are always people trying to make you into something,
Speaker 1: whether it's overtly or just through osmosis, and it is
Speaker 1: important to sort of be true to who you are,
Speaker 1: but also to you know, find the means and find
Speaker 1: the room to express yourself and be what you want
Speaker 1: to be, even if it is flying in the face
Speaker 1: of a giant governmental authority that wants to control your behavior.
Speaker 1: All right, well, the show again is The Control Group.
Speaker 1: Where can everybody get this? The entire series is out
Speaker 1: right all ten episodes. Episodes are live and you can
Speaker 1: stream and subscribe at Apple Podcasts and wherever find podcasts
Speaker 1: are heard, and our official web page is Control Group
Speaker 1: dot show. All right, well, well thanks for coming on
Speaker 1: the show and chatting with us as an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Brett. All right, so there you have it.
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Brett for coming on the show and
Speaker 1: talking about the Control Group. Yeah, thanks a lot, Brett. Hey,
Speaker 1: if you want to check out that show, where can
Speaker 1: they go for that? What's the website for the Control Group? Well,
Speaker 1: they can go to www dot Control Group dot Show.
Speaker 1: That's right. And hey, if you want to check out
Speaker 1: more about this show about Stuff to Blow Your Mind.
Speaker 1: Maybe you even just listened into this interview and you've
Speaker 1: never listened to Stuff to Blow your Mind before, Well,
Speaker 1: you can check us out in a number of ways.
Speaker 1: You can go to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.
Speaker 1: You can find all the episodes there, you can find
Speaker 1: links store, various social media accounts, a store to buy
Speaker 1: some merch uh and so forth. But you can also
Speaker 1: just find us anywhere you get your media, and wherever
Speaker 1: you get your media. Help out our show by leaving
Speaker 1: a nice little review and as many stars as humanly possible,
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our wonderful audio producers Alex Williams
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