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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick.

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Speaker 1: In today, We've got a treat for you. It's going

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Speaker 1: to be a special bonus conversation with Brett Wood, the

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Speaker 1: creator of the house Stuff Works podcast The Control Group.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We've been needed to do this for a

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Speaker 1: little bit, ever since The Control Group came out over

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Speaker 1: the summer, because we really think Stuff to Blow in

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Speaker 1: your Mind listeners will enjoy the show. It touches on

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Speaker 1: a number of things that we've discussed in the past

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Speaker 1: on this show. Uh, And so we're like, oh, we should,

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Speaker 1: we should talk to Bratt, have him in the studio

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Speaker 1: and maybe we can we can throw this at the

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Speaker 1: end of an episode, at the beginning of old episode,

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Speaker 1: but it ended up being just such a good little

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Speaker 1: chat we thought we just put it out in its

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Speaker 1: own neat little package. That's right. We had a great

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Speaker 1: time talking to Brett and we hope you enjoy our conversation. Hey, Brett,

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Speaker 1: thanks for joining us on the show today. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? Introduce yourself. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I'm Brett Wood. I'm the writer and director of the

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Speaker 1: Control Group. But I'm also a filmmaker, independent filmmaker and

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Speaker 1: have been very involved in uh film restoration. I've written

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Speaker 1: about film history a lot. So I'm kind of a

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Speaker 1: movie guy who discovered uh the wonderful possibilities of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: So here I am. And so you have a podcast

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Speaker 1: on our network right now and in the Stuff Media

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Speaker 1: group of us tell us about the Control Group. The

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Speaker 1: Control Group is a ten parts of scripted drama podcast

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Speaker 1: and it revisits a sort of fascinating period of history,

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Speaker 1: the early nineties sixties when the CIA was doing two

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Speaker 1: interesting things. On one hand, conducting secret drug experimentation for

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Speaker 1: the sake of finding a a an effective method of

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Speaker 1: mind control. At the same time, sort of funding medical

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Speaker 1: research for the same purpose, UH in public institutions through

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Speaker 1: a phantom organization. And these two phenomena have sort of

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Speaker 1: been discussed in sort of the the secret history subculture

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Speaker 1: that we all love. And so what I did is

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Speaker 1: sort of narrativised them and combined them into one story

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Speaker 1: and let them play off each other. Oh. So we've

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Speaker 1: talked a little bit about this historical period on the

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Speaker 1: show before, and I assume on the podcast I I

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Speaker 1: have started listening and I'm hooked now. I haven't made

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Speaker 1: it to the end of the season yet, but I can't.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what happens. I assume you

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Speaker 1: get into Project Artichoke, Bluebird, that kind of thing. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And what's funny is a lot of people who were

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Speaker 1: involved in these things never knew they were involved in

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Speaker 1: these things, because, especially in the medical research, no one

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Speaker 1: wanted to be working for the CIA or feeling like

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Speaker 1: what they were doing is for government use espionage, so

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Speaker 1: they kind of covered that up. And we would never

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Speaker 1: have known about MK Ultra and Bluebird, nart a Choke,

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Speaker 1: and Naomi if it weren't for sort of the accidental

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Speaker 1: survival of certain records, which people were then able to

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Speaker 1: go back and piece together and sort of create a

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Speaker 1: narrative of what, you know, what had gone on here.

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Speaker 1: And now some of this information is declassified, right right,

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Speaker 1: but there's very little actual information about what they were

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Speaker 1: doing other than it all sort of came together through

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Speaker 1: financial records and it was pieced together, and then that

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Speaker 1: gay people names interviews could be conducted and so we

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Speaker 1: have a pretty good understanding of what went on, but

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Speaker 1: not the thorough documentation of you know, government research programs today.

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Speaker 1: And so the context here, if I'm not mistaken, it

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Speaker 1: would be basically Cold war research into the idea of

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Speaker 1: how how you could get information out of people, interrogation

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Speaker 1: techniques and maybe even control people's behavior without them being

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Speaker 1: conscious of it, right, and Americans always wanted a quick,

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Speaker 1: an effective solution that was more science e kind of

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Speaker 1: James Bondi and as opposed to sort of a long

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Speaker 1: term psychological approach. You know, they wanted something you could

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Speaker 1: slip in someone's glass, a dart, you could shoot in

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Speaker 1: someone's neck and have that kind of control. But it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't work that way. But you know, there is

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Speaker 1: confidence that it could work that way, and so they

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Speaker 1: applied a lot of their forces to coming up with

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Speaker 1: this you know, magic bullet that would let you either

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Speaker 1: affect someone's thoughts or mind them find out what they're thinking.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I love about The Control Group

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Speaker 1: and it is is a lovely show. I recommend all

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Speaker 1: our listeners to check it out, for sure, But but

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Speaker 1: one of the things I love is that it's it's

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Speaker 1: It's obviously not just a situation where someone steps in

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Speaker 1: and says, hey, I represent CIA. We're up to some

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Speaker 1: sinister stuff. You're a sinister scientist. Let's do some experimentations

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Speaker 1: on people. Uh. It does a really great job, especially

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Speaker 1: early on, of of establishing you know this, the sense

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Speaker 1: of of push and pull that would uh, that would

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Speaker 1: see a professional end up and involved in projects like this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they kind of um, you know, of play to someone's

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Speaker 1: ego and uh, you know, if you're a medical professional

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Speaker 1: in a someone's willing to fund your research almost without limit.

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Speaker 1: And also say, you know, telling you you're onto something big,

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Speaker 1: I think if you just push it a little further,

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Speaker 1: go ahead and do that thing that ordinarily you might

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Speaker 1: be reluctant to do, because I think you're gonna you're

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Speaker 1: gonna break through, you know, onto something big. And it's

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Speaker 1: about how you wear down someone's uh, moral resistance or

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Speaker 1: their ethics. You know, you know, we have certain ethical

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Speaker 1: barriers which serve us well and serve our fellow humans well,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of times in this for the sake

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Speaker 1: of the greater good, people want to push those barriers down. Well,

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Speaker 1: we've got it. We've got to tackle this problem now,

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Speaker 1: so let's not worry so much about experimenting on animals,

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Speaker 1: experience many on people. You know, this is such an

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Speaker 1: urgent issue, we've got to solve it at all costs.

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Speaker 1: And once you drop your moral barriers, your ethical barriers,

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Speaker 1: then it opens you up to all sorts of dangerous

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Speaker 1: abuses of power, and we've seen that a few times

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Speaker 1: in our in our history. Yes, well, you know what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a podcast, We're talking about an audio experience.

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Speaker 1: So let's let's just take a short break to listen

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Speaker 1: to the trailer for the Control Group for anyone who

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Speaker 1: hasn't heard it, and then we'll come back in and

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Speaker 1: discuss it some more. This is a time of great

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Speaker 1: opportunity for us for modern medicine. Advancements are being made

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Speaker 1: every day. For more than seventy five years, the Central

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Speaker 1: State Hospital at New Canaan has provided treatment for those

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Speaker 1: with mental disabilities. But in recent weeks something has changed.

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Speaker 1: One of our doctors has adopted methods of treatment that

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Speaker 1: are more experimental in nature, methods one might consider ethically questionable.

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Speaker 1: The Control Group is a ten part scripted drama. Subscribe

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Speaker 1: for free on Apple Podcasts and never miss an episode.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you think I'm doing inflicting harm? To

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Speaker 1: be honest, I don't understand what you're doing. And that's

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Speaker 1: what frightens me the most. The control group from how

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Speaker 1: stuff works. All right, we're back, So so Brett, tell

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Speaker 1: me one thing that I was thinking about. We already

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Speaker 1: talked about some of the historical examples that are essentially

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Speaker 1: the bedrock upon which this, this, uh, this fictional drama

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Speaker 1: is is created. Um, what was it like to to

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Speaker 1: to build with the both these historical elements and then

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Speaker 1: fictional elements. I'm I'm always your minded in cases like

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Speaker 1: this of something that Umberto Eco wrote about in reference

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Speaker 1: to the Name of the Rose, where he said that

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Speaker 1: he would have this this list of of weird but

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Speaker 1: historically factual tidbits, and then he would have the things

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Speaker 1: that he just made up because they worked in a

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Speaker 1: narrative sense in a fictional sense. And often people reading

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Speaker 1: the Name of the Rose would confuse the two. They'd assume, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: this is too weird or too modern. You must have

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Speaker 1: made this up well, and then likewise, the things that

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Speaker 1: feel right they would just assume that this was just

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Speaker 1: part of the history. How does this relate to your

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Speaker 1: experience with control group. It's it's very relevant because just

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Speaker 1: today I as I. Occasionally we'll go back and RELI

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Speaker 1: listener reviews and comments, and one person said, like, this

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Speaker 1: is totally unbelievable, and it would be funny to like

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Speaker 1: lay it out and sort of show, actually, this happened,

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Speaker 1: this happened, this happened, And the things that I've created

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Speaker 1: are there's really not that much that I've done. It's

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Speaker 1: episode ten. I take a big sort of speculative leap,

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Speaker 1: and I won't spoil it until you get there. Um.

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Speaker 1: But for the most part, the things that are in

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Speaker 1: the show are things that actually happened, with something called

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Speaker 1: the deep patterning, which is using UH drugs and shock

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Speaker 1: therapy to sort of flatten someone's brain waves and basically

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Speaker 1: erase their memory and make them a blank slate, psychic driving,

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Speaker 1: which is too play, repetitive messages and headphones or in

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Speaker 1: speakers implanted in a bed continuously around the clock. Like,

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Speaker 1: these are all things that happened. And one thing that

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Speaker 1: some people are disturbed by is something that's amidst all

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Speaker 1: this horror. It's pretty subtle, but was still very much

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Speaker 1: a part of this is sort of the inherent sexism

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Speaker 1: of what was going on, because it was frequently men

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Speaker 1: controlling women because women were perceived as being more malleable

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Speaker 1: and passive. And and to me, that's the thing that

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Speaker 1: sort of shows how we're crossing over from a doctor

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Speaker 1: lower r his ethical standards to a person who is

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Speaker 1: allowing themselves to be morally corrupted or you know, instead

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Speaker 1: of crossing a professional boundary, now they're crossing crossing a

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Speaker 1: personal boundary and that and I think the two are

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Speaker 1: almost interchangeable. When you start lowering one, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: social ethical restraint, others start to fall and it becomes

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Speaker 1: this horror story of it's not only about medical research

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Speaker 1: and mind control now now it's about you know, men

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Speaker 1: abusing women or men feeling that they have the right

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Speaker 1: to control women and women within in the early nineties

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Speaker 1: when there's not a lot of power, when the women

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Speaker 1: were the nurses and the men with the doctors, how

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Speaker 1: can a woman fight against that? And so I tried

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Speaker 1: to make that a very important component of the control

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Speaker 1: group and also like one of the sources of frustration

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Speaker 1: and horror when you listen to the show, because that's

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Speaker 1: something we can relate to we can all relate to, yeah,

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Speaker 1: getting electric convulsive therapy and you know those kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: So your background is in film. Did you originally conceive

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Speaker 1: the Control Group as a film project and if so,

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Speaker 1: how did the transition to audio format go. Yes, it

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Speaker 1: was intended as a feature film, and it had script

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Speaker 1: and we have found locations and I was in the

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Speaker 1: process of casting it. Very low budget kind of stuff,

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Speaker 1: and we were going to shoot it at an actual, uh,

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Speaker 1: what had been a medical facility which is no longer

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Speaker 1: in use, and that is where a lot of the

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Speaker 1: architecture of the Control Group, even though it's audio only

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Speaker 1: comes from of this sort of modern facility that adjoins

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Speaker 1: this creaky old mansion that was very much part of

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Speaker 1: the space we were going to shoot it. And it's

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Speaker 1: funny that same uh, modern building connected to this um

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Speaker 1: sort of monument to the past is pretty common in

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Speaker 1: big statemental hospitals in Millageville. Here in Georgia you have

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Speaker 1: the same thing. You have these ultramodern buildings sitting alongside

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Speaker 1: these crumbling Victorian buildings. So that was where we were

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Speaker 1: going to shoot. But when they reviewed the script prior

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Speaker 1: to our shooting, they Withdrew permission for us to film there,

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Speaker 1: and so this project went on the shelf, and I

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Speaker 1: chose something else that I had in my other script drawer,

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Speaker 1: which was very simple and inexpensive to film, so I

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Speaker 1: did that instead, and it's a film called The Unwanted.

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Speaker 1: You can stream it on Amazon um And so adapting

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Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun because for a two

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Speaker 1: hour movie you have to you have to be very concise.

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Speaker 1: Everything has to be short and quick and move along.

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Speaker 1: But suddenly to have this expanded canvas of a ten

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Speaker 1: episode podcast and having like five hours in which tell

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Speaker 1: the story was very liberating. And then I think the

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Speaker 1: thing I love the best is that certain things that

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Speaker 1: are cheesy when you do it on film, hallucination, no

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Speaker 1: one can do like an acid trip. On film, It's

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Speaker 1: always gonna be cheesy. It's never going to quite be

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Speaker 1: you know. It's it's someone's visual representation of the unrepresentable.

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Speaker 1: But with audio you can kind of cross that line

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Speaker 1: much more easily, and and sometimes what you imagine is

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Speaker 1: much more effective and much worse than what I would

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Speaker 1: have been able to as a filmmaker put on screen.

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Speaker 1: So like and even like the Horrors of Shop treatment.

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Speaker 1: If I had tried to stage that on film, would

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Speaker 1: have probably looked, I don't know, kind of conventional, or

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Speaker 1: it would have that when you just hear the sound

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Speaker 1: of someone like a convulsing on a gurney and you know,

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Speaker 1: choking with the mouth piece in their mouth, that's to me,

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Speaker 1: that's much more visceral and what you in your mind

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Speaker 1: create as much more effective and affecting than you know,

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Speaker 1: what I would have literally represented for that. So the

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Speaker 1: cast of the Control Group is excellent. Everybody really really

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Speaker 1: brings it. Is this the same team that you've assembled

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Speaker 1: for the film or do you assemble a different team

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Speaker 1: for the audio of how did how did this come together? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: totally different team. Because the film was going to be

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Speaker 1: years ago and I hadn't fully cast it yet, And

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Speaker 1: in between making The Unwanted, I made another film called

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Speaker 1: Those Who Deserve to Die, which is sort of a

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Speaker 1: supernatural revenge film which we're just completing so it's not

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Speaker 1: out yet, And and that brought me in contact with,

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Speaker 1: you know, another bunch of actors. And so the cast

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Speaker 1: of the Control Group is basically all these actors I've

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Speaker 1: worked with in previous films. So there's someone from those

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Speaker 1: who deserve to die someone from the Control Group. And

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Speaker 1: also in one of the other hats I wear is

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Speaker 1: doing some like film and video production and things like that,

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Speaker 1: and I've dubbed foreign films into English, which is a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun. And so I've used some of the

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Speaker 1: voice actors from that process. So I had a little

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Speaker 1: bit of experience in sort of constructing a film and

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Speaker 1: they're of audio only, UM, so that I definitely used

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Speaker 1: all my tools from the film toolbox in making the

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Speaker 1: Control Group. Now Joe and I were off Mike here.

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Speaker 1: We were already chatting a little bit about movies of

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Speaker 1: the past, and Joe and I talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: especially B movies um on the show. So we have

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Speaker 1: to ask you, well, what are your favorite mental hospital

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Speaker 1: films and did you draw inspiration from any of them

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Speaker 1: for the Control Group. Oh, that's a good question. Um.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't not be aware of one Flew

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Speaker 1: Over the Cuckoo's Nest just because it is like the

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Speaker 1: big one. But Sam Fuller shot Corridor was definitely influential.

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Speaker 1: But there was also some lesser known films that I

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Speaker 1: like a lot. There's one called The Caretakers, which is

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Speaker 1: very interesting and the snake Pit, of course, and u

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Speaker 1: uh John Cassavetti's A Child as Waiting, even though it's

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Speaker 1: about sort of a hospital for children with you know,

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Speaker 1: mental retardation and developmental disabilities, but still these ideas of

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Speaker 1: this sort of clinical setting, which some of these movies

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Speaker 1: are about the horror of a mental hospital and some

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Speaker 1: of them are about this is modern medicine, this is

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Speaker 1: this is hope. And so I kind of like for

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Speaker 1: my world to be a little bit of both. It's

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Speaker 1: a place where there are people who are genuinely interested

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Speaker 1: in providing health care and looking for the latest and

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Speaker 1: you know, some new means of treatment, but also a

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Speaker 1: place where you know, uh, certain treatments are being performed

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Speaker 1: that are maybe in ten years not going to be

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Speaker 1: looked upon as the most humane. Another thing Robert and

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Speaker 1: I have talked about before is how you know, there's

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Speaker 1: certain professions that are very very often demonized in film.

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Speaker 1: You know, you almost never, like unless it's a vampire

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Speaker 1: of you almost never get a priest character who's good,

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Speaker 1: you know, And I feel like the psychiatrist is a

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Speaker 1: character who's kind of like that is very very often

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Speaker 1: a creepy villain in the film, and I know that,

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Speaker 1: and obviously I don't feel that about psychiatrists in real life.

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Speaker 1: I mean, most mental health care professionals are people who

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Speaker 1: are devoting their lives to try to help people. But

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Speaker 1: I wonder if that reveals some kind of underlying anxiety

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Speaker 1: that people have about the mental health treatment relationship. And

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Speaker 1: so I wonder if doing this show, especially based on

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Speaker 1: historical examples, where this relationship that's supposed to be a

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Speaker 1: positive one that's supposed to help people heal, could go very,

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Speaker 1: very wrong and very abusive. Um. Did did that inform

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Speaker 1: your your ideas about that anxiety, that cultural anxiety we

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Speaker 1: have And I didn't think about it specifically, But you know,

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Speaker 1: all this stuff is like we carried around with us,

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Speaker 1: especially if we love movies, then we have the whether

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Speaker 1: we're that conscious of it or not. UM. But you know,

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Speaker 1: psychiatrists are the Frankenstein's of the twenty one century. You know,

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Speaker 1: back then the horror was digging up a body to

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Speaker 1: anatomize the corpse. That was sort of the foundation of

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Speaker 1: the horror of Frankenstein. Of surgery, you actually got to

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Speaker 1: cut into a body. You know, now we've grown used

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Speaker 1: to that. That's science. And so now it's profaning you know,

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Speaker 1: the body by opening up the mind and you know,

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Speaker 1: taking something that's supposed to be uh, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: invading the sanctity of the mind. That doctors seem to

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Speaker 1: have this uncanny power to open crack open the head

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Speaker 1: as an expression we use in the control group. Um, So,

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Speaker 1: I think it's not so much like you said, It's

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Speaker 1: not that we distrust doctors and psychiatrists necessarily. It's more

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Speaker 1: the fact that they seem to have this power which

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Speaker 1: we don't fully under stand, but possibly have this power

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Speaker 1: over us that intimidates us. That you know, they may

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Speaker 1: know us better than we know ourselves and be able

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Speaker 1: to unleash something within us that we didn't know was there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think, well, it's something you touch on in episodes

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Speaker 1: of the show, is the idea that psychiatry makes people

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Speaker 1: maybe feel vulnerable because of its potential access to secrets

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Speaker 1: which people don't want. The things people don't want known

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Speaker 1: are potentially knowable by someone who knows how to look

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Speaker 1: for them. Yeah, and you know, and and uh, and

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Speaker 1: nobody wants to have their secrets known, right, especially if

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Speaker 1: they don't know them first. Yeah, it's like you know,

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Speaker 1: I kind of would not spill out a dream I

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Speaker 1: had and let somebody else, you know, uh, analyze it

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Speaker 1: until I kind of understood it myself. And I sort

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Speaker 1: of feel like it's the same sort of thing. And um,

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Speaker 1: so there's that protection of yourself that you don't know yet.

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Speaker 1: But then there's also the the uh, the minding of secrets.

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Speaker 1: There are things that I know that I don't want

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Speaker 1: to tell anyone, and the fact that someone else may

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Speaker 1: be able to get that out of me is a

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Speaker 1: little frightening, right, Not me personally, of course, I'm an

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Speaker 1: open book. Well, I mean, it's interesting you say that,

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Speaker 1: because I mean a creative project like this, you are,

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Speaker 1: in a sense taking a dream of your own, analyzing

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Speaker 1: it and then putting it out for everyone else, uh

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Speaker 1: to to to see and and reanalyze and say, who

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Speaker 1: is this Brett Wood? And and uh and why does

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Speaker 1: he think like this? And quite often I realized things

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Speaker 1: about myself that as people pointed out I as people

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Speaker 1: point it out, I say, huh, maybe I you know,

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Speaker 1: I knew I have certain tendencies in me, and maybe

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Speaker 1: there's more tendencies or you know, there's more things like

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Speaker 1: this than I realized. And also when you make a

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Speaker 1: film or when you create a big project like this,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to analyze it too much because you

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Speaker 1: have to kind of. I've always been a strong believer

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Speaker 1: in writing from the gut, don't sensor your elf, don't uh,

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Speaker 1: don't understand it too well, just do whatever it takes

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Speaker 1: to open up the faucet and let the words flow.

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Speaker 1: And it is, you know, like a form of therapy

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Speaker 1: that you let this stuff out, you know, and you

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Speaker 1: want to dig into the weird stuff that no one

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Speaker 1: else or not many other people are digging into so

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Speaker 1: and all my films and in the control group, and

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Speaker 1: hopefully as we move forward, I'm going to continue to

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Speaker 1: do that. And you know, of course, you as you

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Speaker 1: do that, you make sure you're doing something that is

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Speaker 1: not morally reprehensible, and you there's some purpose to what

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Speaker 1: you're doing. But I think it's it's important for the

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Speaker 1: artists to not completely understand their work, because once you

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Speaker 1: understand something, then there's no longer any reason to explore it.

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Speaker 1: So for me, for better or worse, it's taking that

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Speaker 1: kind of muck out of the inside of me, putting

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Speaker 1: it on a table and then just kind of like

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Speaker 1: fishing around in and and seeing what's there and turning

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Speaker 1: it into a narrative and putting it in people's ears.

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Speaker 1: I think we just mentioned this on the show recently,

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Speaker 1: but I often think it's hilarious when like an interviewer

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Speaker 1: asks a creative person to explain their novel in terms

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Speaker 1: of their autobiography. Just is that's somebody else's job. Come on,

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Speaker 1: But I'm sure that like after they read it and

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Speaker 1: then after they've heard feedback, they probably discover all sorts

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Speaker 1: of things about themselves that they were not really thinking

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Speaker 1: of when it was being written. Because you know, any

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Speaker 1: time you write or even do any kind of like

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Speaker 1: extemporaneous speaking, you're just like letting it flow out and

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Speaker 1: you can't stop and understand it as the words are

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Speaker 1: coming out. So it's it's kind of the a fun thing.

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Speaker 1: It's like improv you know, it's kind of nice to

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Speaker 1: turn the creative faucet on and sort of see what

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Speaker 1: comes out, and hopefully you know, you still have your

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00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: friends and relationships after you've done so well. In that case,

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Speaker 1: maybe allow me to illicitly ask you to summarize what

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Speaker 1: your work means, if you if you expect people to

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Speaker 1: come away from the control group with a with a

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Speaker 1: thought or a message or a takeaway. What do you

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Speaker 1: what do you think that thought is? Well? On a

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Speaker 1: broader canvas, all my work is about people who are

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Speaker 1: trying to escape some sort of control um, whether it's

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Speaker 1: someone is a morally oppressive force, and how they find

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Speaker 1: ways to um, you know, to resist that oppression and

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Speaker 1: find a way of expressing themselves. And usually it has

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Speaker 1: to do with sexual matters. UM. That's kind of the

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Speaker 1: thing that people are and I think today are most

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Speaker 1: commonly oppressed, you know, by having the freedom to express

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Speaker 1: themselves sexually or the kind of partner they want to choose, UM,

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Speaker 1: and how you get around that. So that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the core of my films. And maybe that's not so

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Speaker 1: much specific to the control group, but the control group

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Speaker 1: is about someone oppressing you and how do you maintain

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Speaker 1: your individuality and not completely succumbed to this force that's

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Speaker 1: trying to shape you into not only something that's socially

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Speaker 1: and morally acceptable, but maybe something that is shaping you

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Speaker 1: into something that doesn't have feelings and doesn't have feel

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Speaker 1: like it can express itself. So I think it's about specifically,

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Speaker 1: then if what I would say someone should come away

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Speaker 1: from the Control Group thinking about would be that, um,

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Speaker 1: there are always people trying to make you into something,

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Speaker 1: whether it's overtly or just through osmosis, and it is

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Speaker 1: important to sort of be true to who you are,

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Speaker 1: but also to you know, find the means and find

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Speaker 1: the room to express yourself and be what you want

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Speaker 1: to be, even if it is flying in the face

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Speaker 1: of a giant governmental authority that wants to control your behavior.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, the show again is The Control Group.

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Speaker 1: Where can everybody get this? The entire series is out

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Speaker 1: right all ten episodes. Episodes are live and you can

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00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: stream and subscribe at Apple Podcasts and wherever find podcasts

431
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: are heard, and our official web page is Control Group

432
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: dot show. All right, well, well thanks for coming on

433
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: the show and chatting with us as an absolute pleasure.

434
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Brett. All right, so there you have it.

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00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Brett for coming on the show and

436
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: talking about the Control Group. Yeah, thanks a lot, Brett. Hey,

437
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: if you want to check out that show, where can

438
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: they go for that? What's the website for the Control Group? Well,

439
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: they can go to www dot Control Group dot Show.

440
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,479
Speaker 1: That's right. And hey, if you want to check out

441
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: more about this show about Stuff to Blow Your Mind.

442
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: Maybe you even just listened into this interview and you've

443
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: never listened to Stuff to Blow your Mind before, Well,

444
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: you can check us out in a number of ways.

445
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: You can go to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

446
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Speaker 1: You can find all the episodes there, you can find

447
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Speaker 1: links store, various social media accounts, a store to buy

448
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: some merch uh and so forth. But you can also

449
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Speaker 1: just find us anywhere you get your media, and wherever

450
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Speaker 1: you get your media. Help out our show by leaving

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Speaker 1: a nice little review and as many stars as humanly possible,

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Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our wonderful audio producers Alex Williams

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00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: and Terry Harrison. If you would like to get in

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Speaker 1: touch with us to let us know feedback on this

455
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future,

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00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: just to say hi, you can email us at blow

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00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: the Mind at how stuff Works dot com for more

458
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Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Because it how

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Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com and it was gitty, proper