WEBVTT - The Shiitake Episode Is the Shiitake Mushroom 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:11.799 Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:12.960 Reese and I'm Lauren. 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.280 Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode for you about 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:16.599 chatake mushrooms. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.880 Yes, and it is a fun one. Oh yeah. Yes. 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:23.160 Was there any particular reason this was on your mind? 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:28.400 Lord, Nope, nope. I was just kind of looking for 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:33.000 episode ideas and realized that we hadn't done any about 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.240 mushrooms in a really long time, and I always want 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:41.280 to talk about fun guy, so yes. And then you 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.800 pointed out that it ties in perfectly with the release 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:47.400 of the Last of Us Season. 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:52.680 Two, Yes, which was hilarious because the Last of Us 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.600 Part two is my favorite game of all time. I 0:00:55.680 --> 0:01:00.240 almost suggested a mushroom topic to you, but I was like, 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:01.640 my fan, I'm pushing my. 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.800 Fandom too hard. And then you suggested this, and I 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:07.720 was like, well, there we go, right. 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:13.399 Yeah, yeah, it might have premiered in the past by 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:15.640 the time you're listening to this. I don't know when 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.920 this is publishing or when you're listening, but here we are. Yes, 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:21.560 and I am very excited about it. 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:24.400 I am too, Ah. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:32.000 I do love hit take mushrooms. I use them pretty frequently. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:33.960 I have to say, I remember exactly the first time 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:35.480 I heard about them, though, and it was in the 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:36.959 two thousand, two thousand and one. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:38.080 Movies by Kids. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.000 Okay, I haven't seen that movie since it was in theaters, 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.840 which tells you how impactful this joke was to me. 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:47.880 But to get around saying the S word, they said, 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.680 holy chittake mushrooms wow, And I just remember it, and 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.960 that was the first time I had heard of them, 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.200 and I was like, I gotta try these. 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:10.080 Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:11.600 That's amazing, well well known, well known film Spy Kids 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.519 a culinary influence in ways that we never previously. 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:20.400 Indeed, indeed, well you can. 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:25.120 See other episodes like we have a general mushroom episode. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:33.640 We've also done specific episodes on Chantarell's and morals and truffles. Also, 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:36.920 we talk about in some of our Ashville episodes and 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:41.880 have some tape in there from this truly magical, no 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.200 drug pun intended mushroom walk that we went on with 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:47.920 a forager by the name of Alan when we were 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:53.040 in Ashville and weird lovely day it was. 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.800 It was fun to revisit that memory. I haven't thought 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.200 about that in a while, but I so I was 0:02:58.240 --> 0:02:59.679 doing this research and I was like, Oh, what a 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:00.880 wonder full time that was. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.320 It was just we were very stressed out and had 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:08.400 a very full schedule, and this nice fellow just took 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:15.320 us on the longest foraging walk that we could possibly 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.680 conceive of, and it was so delightful. 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:21.920 It was. It was really delightful. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:23.880 As soon as we got over the fact that we 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:25.840 were like, we're meeting a stranger in the woods. 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:35.600 Yes, let's do it. It all worked out, it really did. 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.080 But I guess this brings us to our question. Sure, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:45.960 chatake mushrooms, what are they? 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.120 Well, Chatake mushrooms are a type of mushroom that grows 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.320 a brown cap with a creamy white gills underneath on 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:57.080 a sort of medium sized stem. They're kind of savory, 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:01.520 earthy in flavor, and chewy toothsome in texture when they're cooked, 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.240 which they should be by the way. They can be 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.120 cooked though, anyway that you like them, roasted or grilled, 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.120 or maybe simmered in a soup or stew, and they'll 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:12.760 really soak up any sauces or other flavoring that you 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.279 cook them with. They can also be dried and or 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.159 you know, dried and powdered, whereupon their flavor is kind 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:23.800 of concentrated and intensified to something very savory and maybe 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.280 a little bit funky. Uh. Dried take can be reconstituted 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.680 for cooking with pretty much as usual, or used to 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.640 make broth, to add like a savory flavor to all 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:38.479 kinds of things. They're they're a good, strong mushroom, like 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.680 a like a stern, like a studious mushroom, like a 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:46.479 like like a firm handshake. There's something satisfying about it, 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:46.720 you know. 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:54.839 Yeah, yeah, I like that take knows what it's about. 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:55.400 Yeah. 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.160 It's confident, yeah yeah, yeah, puts you at ease and 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:00.680 it's confidence right right. 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:02.680 It's not like some of those mushy mushrooms, you know. 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:05.200 No, not the shatake. 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.720 And I should say here that when we say chatake, 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:15.800 we mean specifically a species called Lentinula a dotes. I 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.200 didn't look up how to say that. We're just gonna 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.279 roll with it. But there are other species within the genus. 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:24.760 Currently nine are recognized, and they're also sometimes called chatake. 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.479 They're different species that grow natively across Asia and the Americas. 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.520 We'll get into that in the history section a little bit, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:37.840 but yes, so mushrooms I love a fungus. Fungi are 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:42.080 biologically fascinating because they have a bunch of features that 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.839 are plant like, but also a bunch of features that 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.760 are animal like, so you know, like a plant, they 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.279 grow from sort of seed type structures called spores and 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.480 develop a root like system called mycelium in whatever medium 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.440 they're growing in. In Chatake's case, they like growing in 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.560 dead hardwood like a fallen trees or cut logs or 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:06.680 even sawdust. But unlike a plant, they can't photosynthesize. They 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:11.920 get energy by excreting digestive enzymes and then absorbing nutrients 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:15.880 from compounds that those enzymes break down, in this case 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:20.400 in wood. They also breathe oxygen and release carbon dioxide 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.320 like we do. And also their cells grow like plants, 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.120 but they do contain kiten, which is an animal cell thing. 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.640 I've said it before, I will say it again, WTF nature. 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:36.839 But anyway, when ash take fungus has a good mycolium 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.479 structure going on, it will put off fruiting bodies that 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.960 is mushrooms, which are what produce the spores, and start 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:48.120 the cycle all over again. They do grow wild people 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:51.040 also cultivate them a few different ways, like drilling holes 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.120 and logs and placing a culture of my cilium strands 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.000 in there. It's called spawn. You can also spawn them 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.440 on sawdust blocks. Left to their own devices, chataki will 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.800 fruit a couple times a year for a few years running, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.680 though they can be shocked with cold water to induce 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:10.120 fruiting more frequently. Shockey mushrooms can range in size from 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:14.120 about three to six sish inches in diameter across the cap. 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.520 When they're ready for harvest, it's like seven to fourteen 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.360 centimeters or so. The stock is tougher in texture than 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.760 the cap and the little skinnier than the stock on 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.160 like a like like button mushrooms. So depending on your 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.960 your tastes for toughness, they could be sliced thin or 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.760 maybe saved to make stock something tasty like that. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:38.320 Mm yes, yes, yes, yes, Oh, and I guess I 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.880 should specify for people who don't know the last of us. 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.880 What causes the infection is corteous EPs is a fungus. 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:49.480 That's why it's related. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:56.200 So very cool, also kind of kind of potential for freakiness. 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:57.960 Yeah, love it. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:04.640 Okay, So how about the nutrition by themselves? Ushtake are 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.840 pretty good for you, you know, good punch of fiber, 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.280 bunch of minerals other micronutrients, pair with a fat and 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.320 protein to help keep you going. They are being investigated 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:18.600 for all kinds of possible health benefits. I am personally 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:24.720 exhausted by the amount of breathless, slightly scienceless press that 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.240 mushrooms have been getting over the past couple of years. 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:33.560 But you know savor motto. Before ingesting medicinal quantities of anything, 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.520 you should consult a medical professional who is not us, 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:41.960 because bodies are complicated and more research needs to be done. 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:42.400 Yes. 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.480 Also note here the reason that I said that you 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.800 should cook sh take is that eating them uncooked can 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.920 cause this toxic reaction in some people that causes a 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:59.120 really gnarly rash among other symptoms. It's only like two 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.560 percent of people. Still, why take that risk? Just cook them? 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:02.600 It's tasty. 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:07.120 Yeah, yeah, Well, we do have some numbers for you. 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:12.000 Chatake are the second most cultivated mushroom in the world 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:16.240 after like white button portobello mushrooms, I believe, accounting for 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:21.559 some twenty two percent of global mushroom production. Dan, I know, right. 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.600 Monetary numbers can be so weird, so okay. As of 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.360 twenty twenty two, ish I read that global sales of 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:34.640 chatake mushrooms hit seventy nine million dollars, maybe because I 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.360 also saw numbers higher by a whole factor of ten, 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.280 so who knows. I don't know either way. It seems 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.520 like China produces most of the world's supply, like somewhere 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:52.280 over eighty percent, and that South Korea and the United 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.760 States buy the most. For a long time, dried has 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.600 been the largest market segment, but fresh has been catching 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.320 up and is maybe edging it out a little bit recently. 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.839 They can get pricey in the United States. Chatake can 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:10.080 range from around eight to eighteen dollars a pound, depending 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:14.040 on how labor intensively they are harvested and or grown. 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.920 But there is a premium type out of Japan called 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.400 the white flower chatake I believe for the way that 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:26.600 the skin on the on the caps splits and appears 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:31.200 to be sort of flower like, and wild harvested ones 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.120 of those can go for one hundred and sixty dollars 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:34.560 a pound. 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.560 Wow, yeah, well, listeners, let us know. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.040 Yeah, oh man, I want to know about your very 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:46.839 fancy shatake mushroom adventures. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:51.680 Yes, I did see some tourists, like definitely in Japan, 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:53.120 but I even saw them around the world, Like you 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.120 can go visit Chatake farms and stuff, so. 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:57.520 Let us know, yeah, anything like that. 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:03.160 Oh yeah, absolutely, And they do have a really interesting history. 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.920 Oh yeah, and we are going to get into that 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:07.679 as soon as we get back from a quick break 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.240 for a word from our sponsors. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.000 And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay. 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:27.760 Disclaimer before we start, as kind of mentioned, there's some 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:33.800 taxonomic confusion with the chatak to the point that there's 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:39.800 actual research being done into it now over what people 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:44.760 were talking about, what exactly people were talking about over 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:45.199 the years. 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.839 So it's one of those fun things. It's one of 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.880 those fun things about especially something already kind of weird 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.720 and tricksy like mushrooms. Yes, where you're just like, oh, 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:58.840 is this what we've been talking about? Wait, what are 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.480 you talking about? Like yeah, and a lot of that 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:03.880 scientifically has been going on. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.080 Yeah, it's actually really interesting and you have any interest 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.480 in it, I recommend looking it up because people are 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:16.520 looking into it, they're talking about it. Oh yeah, fascinating stuff. 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:20.960 But it does make tracing the history for researchers and 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.920 does podcasters a little difficult. 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:25.920 Okay. 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:30.520 That being said, the most common ancestor of the chatak 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.480 dates back as far as thirty million years, but some 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.920 put it way further back than that. Wild chatakes are 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:43.920 indigenous to modern day East Asia, though new research widens 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.840 the area to Asia Australasia and also suggests that perhaps 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:52.600 separate lineages originated in the Americas and Madagascar. That is 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:58.439 where the taxonomic confusion comes in. Okay, Anyway, before cultivation, 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.880 chatake were convenient for folks to harvest because once you 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:05.679 found a place and harvested, the mushrooms would generally spread, 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:07.520 growing more mushrooms in the same spot. 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.720 So if you found a spot, you're doing well. Mm hm. 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.600 And then at one point during the seven hundreds CE 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.480 in Japan, people figured out that shatakes would grow on 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:20.680 the cutlogs of the she tree. 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:21.560 Yeah. 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.080 Yeah, that the name shatake comes from she as in 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.920 this type of hardwood evergreen tree that's related to like 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.640 beeches and oaks that's common in East Asia, and take 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.120 being a Japanese word for mushroom. 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.760 Yes, which, by the way, I had a very work 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:39.199 based panic dream. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.520 Oh no, where I was like, wait, it is my. 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.400 Whole outline wrong? Am I being redundant by saying shittake mushrooms? 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:48.679 And I looked it up and it's like, yes, but 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:49.439 people do it. 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:55.040 So yeah. And also I personally, when you're talking about 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.319 the actual mushroom, it's I don't know, like it's weird 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.400 with fung guy, if you're referring to like the fruiting 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:04.760 body versus the mycelium. Anyway, Yeah, yeah, yes, but no 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:06.640 that I did. 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:10.160 I did look into it. But listeners again, right in, 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:12.200 right in. 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:17.000 Historians will leave that chtacks were first cultivated in China 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:21.960 between eleven hundred to one thousand CE, where these mushrooms 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.160 were highly regarded both culinarily and medicinally. 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:30.520 Yeah. Also, this makes them one of the oldest cultivated mushrooms. 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:36.680 And I also realized, Lauren, we haven't talked about aphrodisiacs 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:37.320 in a while. 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:40.440 You know, we haven't done that in a while. 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.760 But I did see in some places that it was 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.760 used as an afrodisiac. But I didn't particularly trust any 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.720 of those places, but I did see it. 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.920 So yeah, Okay, I mean you can probably assume that 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.960 literally everything we've ever talked about has been pointed to 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.040 as an aphrodisiac at some point. 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.800 Yes, even lettuce, which at one point was an anti afrodisiac. 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.720 Yeah, but at one point. 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.320 Anyway, Okay, I think that speaks all more to humans 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:17.360 than to any potential aperdisiac qualities of any single item 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.000 agreed agreed. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.520 Over time, the chatak spread across Asia and in several 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.800 cultures and cuisines. It earned a significance and a fondness 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.520 When immigrating. Many people from these regions would transport chatake 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:37.600 spores with them to cultivate in their new home. Because 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.280 of the popularity of this mushroom in Japan, their were 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.320 concerns about overharvesting it, so some people started working on 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.840 more sustainable harvesting methods, especially on larger scales. One person 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:53.640 of note was a Japanese horticulturist, Sato Churio. He is 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.440 credited with pulling together the first Japanese guide focusing on 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:02.360 cultivating shataki mushrooms and standing techniques in seventeen ninety six. 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:09.200 The first known instance of chatake with today's meaning in 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.360 the written record took place in eighteen seventy seven. That 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:17.160 would have been in the English language yes, my collegist's 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.960 doctor shows up. Bureau Manira figured out how to grow 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:25.640 shatake onlogs away from forest, making cultivation easier. In nineteen fourteen, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:30.520 farmers adopted this method pretty quickly, placing shatake mushrooms directly 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.680 on logs, which launched large scale cultivation. 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:35.240 There were some. 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.840 Limitations though, It could take two years for the mushrooms 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.720 to grow, and once they did, they typically only sprouted 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.080 twice annually. On top of that, if the logs were outside, 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.880 the mushrooms could be damaged by weather or animals. In 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.200 the nineteen forties, this method was largely replaced in Japan 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:57.239 by the sawdust method, so sawdust was mixed with nutrients 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.800 along with the mycilium of the chatakes. This allowed for 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:04.520 indoor storage and a much shorter time before the mushrooms appeared, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.679 about six months, and it also eliminated the limitations around 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.080 harvest times, so folks could grow these mushrooms all year. 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:12.240 Long, which is nice. 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:17.440 This was when the commercial shatak industry took off in Japan. However, 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.959 some claim that this method results in a loss of flavor. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.720 I can't say, I'll just say people like to fight 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:25.200 about it. 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:25.760 They do. 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:26.080 They do. 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.480 There has been research into it, and I read one 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:35.879 like independent blind tasting panel found that like traditional hardwood 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:41.960 grown chatake are more flavorful. But but you know, human 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:43.120 senses are weird. 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:44.600 They are. 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.600 And I'm always fascinated by taste tests because i just 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:49.920 feel like people experience a lot of things so differently. 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:50.879 I don't know. 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.879 Outside of Japan, written mentions and descriptions of a variety 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.159 of species of shatake started popping up in places like 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.119 Australia and the Americas throughout the eighteen and nineteen hundreds. 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.040 The US Department of Agriculture lifted a ban on importing 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.480 chataki spores in nineteen seventy two, and that marked the 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:18.000 beginning of the US chataka industry, and chataka's really took 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.400 off in the US in the nineteen nineties. 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:22.600 This was due to a couple of things. 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.600 Improved cultivation techniques, increased awareness and interest in Asian cuisine 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.359 from non Asian folks, increased interest in vegetarianism or plant 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:32.640 based meals things like that. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.240 Yeah, And over the past few decades there's also been 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.399 an increased interest from farmers and other landowners here in 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:45.119 the States. To add value to their existing land and 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:49.000 growing things like chaitake. Mushrooms can use resources like fallen 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:54.119 branches and trees that weren't being used without endangering living plants. 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.240 Like shatake fungus isn't going to bother anything else. 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.080 Right, As we've been alluding to, there's been some interesting 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.399 research around the chatake genome, both to better understand its 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.359 evolution and the diversity of the species, but also because 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.160 the chatake could be useful in breaking down the sturdy 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:16.000 vibrus parts of wood, including lignin which throws a wrench, 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.480 and using wood for things like biofuel. 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.760 Yeah, both the chatake as we have been discussing it 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:28.040 today and also other fungi in its genus. These mushrooms 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.119 are what are called white rot fungi, which are basically 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.840 like the only buddies we know of that can break 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.680 down the toughest parts of wood. So they're a really 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.680 important for the carbon cycle, but b can be bent 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.680 to cool stuff like biofuel production. 0:19:49.480 --> 0:20:01.400 Again, so cool, love it. Oh, good guy, I could 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.520 have read a lot more research about this. I was fascinated. 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.840 We'll just have to do more more mushroom episodes in 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:09.320 the future. 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:11.520 Yes, agreed. 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.560 Okay, Well, for now, I think that's what we have 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:17.600 to say about chatake mushrooms. 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.680 It is. We would love to hear from you all though, 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.040 if you have. We didn't talk that much about it 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:27.159 as a food product, I suppose, but so if you 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:31.160 guys have any any any memories or recipes or anything 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:33.760 like that, if you have grown some. I love those 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.199 mushroom kits anyway, Yes, we would love to hear from you. 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.360 We do already have some listener mail for you, though, 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:40.880 and we are going to get into that as soon 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:42.600 as we get back from one more quick break for 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:53.680 a word from our sponsors, and we're back. 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.640 Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And we're back with snooth. 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:18.360 Mushrooms are really cool, they are, yes, Okay. Our crote 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:22.480 soda bread, especially warm, is a wonderful butter delivery vehicle. 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.240 I haven't baked any for a long time, but we'll 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.800 need to get it back into rotation. Also love it 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.480 with a nice seafood chowder. Having it sop up all 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:36.520 that deliciousness is a bonus. I don't recall ever seeing 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:38.760 it with other things added. But well, we'll need to 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:42.160 consider trying it. I think we should find a way 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:46.240 to open a small hug a yack business. It will 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.120 need to be further north, but I think we can 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:53.680 make it work. Like someone else mentioned, the only yack 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:56.119 items I have seen are dog treats. But now I 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:58.000 need to see if there is anyone who is importing 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.840 it in any way. Want to try try that cheese. 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:06.159 The history on tea bags is interesting. We have a 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:08.320 mix of loose tea and tea bags in our house. 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:11.159 The bags are generally mass produced simple things such as 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:15.800 peppermint or green tea. Otherwise we use loose surprise, the 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.720 question about squeezing or not squeezing the bag did not 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.880 come up. People definitely have opinions on that. I tend 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.000 to do a light squeeze on mine after pulling it 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.600 out to get the extra flavor, but some people will 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:31.560 shoot you death glares if you do that. I know 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:35.640 how you love strong opinions. Hearing classics, it's always fun. 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:37.920 Forgot about some of the stories behind cheese puffs and 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:40.479 breadfruit has me craving it again. Maybe I just need 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:42.159 to go back to Saint Kits. 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.160 I mean sounds like usually we all just need to go. 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:48.280 Do you just need to go? 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:52.879 Oh? My goodness, I did not know this about I 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:56.360 didn't know there was drama behind squeezing or not squeezing 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:56.800 the bag. 0:22:58.440 --> 0:22:59.840 I'm delighted to find it out. 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.800 Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I was a right. I mean, 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.040 like I guess, I guess sometimes I do that and 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:10.800 sometimes I don't. But ooh, I like that there's drama. 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:13.800 I know I do too. I feel like every choice 0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:17.359 you make with tea, Oh yeah, this rifer, somebody'd be like. 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:23.679 I mean, I would love to hug a yack. The 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:25.880 only thing is we've got to make sure that yak 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:28.280 is into it. So I don't want to bother ready 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:30.000 acts of course. 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:32.280 I mean I think, like knowing what I know, I 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:35.320 mean like most cows are pretty into you know, like 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:39.400 affectionate human contact, so I would assume that yaks are 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:41.560 as well. But you know, it depends on the yak. 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:42.800 It depends on their mood. 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:46.320 Yeah, we would just have to make sure we're taking 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:48.800 the yak's mood and emotions into account. 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:49.600 Oh yeah, absolutely. 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:54.800 And I have to say, Lauren and I are both 0:23:55.040 --> 0:24:00.280 struggling with some stuffy faces, little rough voices. This is 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:03.840 always to our super producer Andrew. I could really use 0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:05.640 a nice seafood chowder right now. 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:09.920 Oh oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, I said. 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:15.800 So nice. Oh my goodness. Well, Joe wrote, oh do 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:19.520 I have opinions on tea? Which is hilarious because for 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.040 most of my life I associated it with being sick. 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:26.159 I called it sad hot water. That all changed when 0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:28.720 I went to England for grad school, but not at first. 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:31.280 I remember ordering black tea from a Starbucks at the 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:35.160