1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Nothing's better than feeling comfortable in your own shoes. Maybe 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: you're a parent raising a little rock star, or a 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: tech nomad working from anywhere. All Birds wants you to 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: be comfortable in your actual shoes too. They're wool runners, pipers, 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: and loungers are so cozy you might forget you're wearing them, 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: and they're crafted from natural materials that tread lightly on 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: our planet. So get comfortable in your shoes. Get to 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: know the wool runners, pipers and loungers at Alberts dot com. 9 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: That's ALLLBI rds dot com. Welcome to Unexplained Extra with 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: me Richard McClane smith. For the weeks in between episodes, 11 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: we look at the stories that, for one reason or other, 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: didn't make it into the show. In last week's episode, 13 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: Come Talk to Me, we looked at the work of 14 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: Friederich Jerkinson, who, in nineteen to fifty eight, while trying 15 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: to record birdsong in his garden, inadvertently recorded a mysterious 16 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: human voice. Though Jurgenson assumed this to be a simple 17 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: radio transmission, similar voices later caught on tape led him 18 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 1: ultimately to believe he had found a way to receive 19 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: communications from the Dead, as explored in season three's episode 20 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: eight Extra. Some consider Jurgenson's recordings to be early examples 21 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: of instrumental transcommunication, the apparent capturing of the voices of 22 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: the dead on electronic devices. For me, Jurgenson's story is 23 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: particularly fascinating because, unlike many others who have carried out 24 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: similar paranormal endeavors, Jurgenson had not set out to prove 25 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: anything in particular, nor was he trying to validate any 26 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: religious belief. It is also, of course teasingly compelling, since, 27 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: like many people, I would like nothing more more than 28 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: to see irrefutable proof of a life after death. Humans 29 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: have long speculated on the concept of an afterlife, whether 30 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 1: we believe in it through a genuine religious conviction, or 31 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: whether we consider it merely an invention to dilute the 32 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: fear of death, or as a means to shape morality. However, 33 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: it is only fairly recently that we have attempted to 34 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: study the possibility of it scientifically. The oft mentioned Society 35 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: of Psychical Research, perhaps the first formal approach to such matters, 36 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: was established in eighteen eighty two for more or less 37 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: this precise reason. Interestingly, what motivated founding member Henry Sidgwick, 38 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: who was predominantly concerned with the validity of mediumship, was 39 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: his own in a turmoil at what proof of that 40 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: would mean. Having been raised an Anglican Christian, Sidgwick was 41 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: torn between his faith and his rational mind that knew 42 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: only too well there was no scientific evidence to validate 43 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: Christian doctrine. It was through his work with the SPR 44 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: that Sidgwick hoped to finally find evidence to support his 45 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: religious convictions. No doubt, for many of those early members 46 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: of the SPR, many scientific revelations of the day, from 47 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: the discovery of electromagnetism to radio waves and the thrill 48 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: of seeing a light bulb for the first time, did 49 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,679 Speaker 1: much to stir the imagination at what worlds might yet 50 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: exist beyond the senses. Today, however, despite all the technological 51 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: advancements of the last one hundred and fifty years, it 52 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: might be surprising or revealing, even depending on how you 53 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: look at it, that the anecdotal evidence of the near 54 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: death experience has emerged as the key area of interest 55 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: for advocates of some form of life after the material 56 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: death of the body. Are you always taking care of 57 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: your family? Do you often take care of others and 58 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: not yourself. Now it's time to take care of yourself, 59 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: to make time for you. You deserve it. Teledoc gives 60 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: you access to a licensed therapist to help you get 61 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: back to feeling your best, to feeling like yourself again. 62 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: With teledoc, you can speak to a licensed therapist by 63 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: phone or video. Therapy appointments are available seven days a 64 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: week from seven am to nine pm local time. If 65 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: you feel overwhelmed sometimes, maybe you feel stressed or anxious, 66 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: depressed or lonely, or you might be struggling with a 67 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: personal or family issue, teledoc can help. Teledoc is committed 68 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: to facilitating great therapeutic matches, so they make it easy 69 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: to change counselors if needed. For free teledoc therapy is 70 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: available through most insurance or employers. Download the app or 71 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: visit teledoc dot com forward slash Unexplained podcast today to 72 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: get started. That's teladoc dot com slash Unexplained Podcast. What 73 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: makes ndease so compelling as evidence of an afterlife is 74 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: not only that they appear to have been recorded as 75 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: far back as ancient times, and that, as one two 76 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: thousand and five studies suggests as many as ninety five 77 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: percent of world cultures are familiar with them, but also 78 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: that regardless of time or culture, the many described experiences 79 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: appear so remarkably similar. Most NDEs will involve some form 80 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: of outer body experience, with the experiencer claiming to have 81 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: witnessed their dying bodies from above before finding themselves being 82 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: taken towards a bright light or to an unfamiliar but 83 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: calming place populated by dead friends and family members. Though 84 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 1: the ubiquity and uniformity of ndees isn't by any means 85 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: evidence of an afterlife, it has however provided researches, such 86 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: as Janice Holden, editor of the Journal of Near Death Studies, 87 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: a platform from which to base their research. In particular, 88 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: the apparent phenomenon of the outer body experience has had 89 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: some researches looking for ways to validate the claim that 90 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: this is more than a mere hallucination. Writing in the 91 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine Handbook of Near Death Experiences Thirty 92 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: Years of Investigation, Holden notes thirty five cases out of 93 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: roughly a hundred that she claims were verified as having 94 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: accurately described events The individuals couldn't possibly have been aware 95 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: of one well known case of an apparently legitimate out 96 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: of body NDE was said to have taken place in 97 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: the United States in nineteen seventy six. It was in 98 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: April of that year that Kimberly Sharp, a social worker 99 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: at Harbor View Hospital in Seattle, Washington, was introduced to 100 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: a patient who had just survived a massive heart attack. 101 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: The woman, known only as Maria, was in an agitated 102 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: state and desperately wanted to share something with Kimberly. The woman, 103 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: according to Sharp, claimed that at some point, while she 104 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: was being resuscitated, she became aware that she was no 105 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: longer in her own body. Moments later, she began floating 106 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: upwards into the corner of the room, at which point 107 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: she was able to observe not only her prostrate body 108 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: on the hospital bed below her, but all the medical 109 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: staff too, as they tried to resuscitate her. Finding that 110 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: she was able to control her movements, she then floated 111 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: out at the building, where she apparently saw a scuffed up, 112 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: light blue canvas tennis shoe perched on a ledge outside 113 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: a window. Desperate to know if this had really happened, 114 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: Maria begged Kimberly to search for the mystery item. Although 115 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: Kimberly was familiar with reports of near death experiences, she 116 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: had never heard anything quite so specific, and was more 117 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: than happy to test out the theory. After scaring a 118 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: number of floors for any sign of the shoe, Kimberly 119 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: had all but given up when she wandered into a 120 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: ward on the third floor and approached the window at 121 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: the far side. Realizing with increasing certainty what she was seeing. 122 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: As she drew closer and closer, Kimberly was stunned to 123 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: find a light blue, scuffed up canvas tennis shoe perched 124 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: on the ledge outside the window, just as Maria had 125 00:08:53,679 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: described it. Due to the credibility of the witness, Kimberly Shah, 126 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: who later went on to join the faculty of the 127 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: University of Washington, the story has gained a lot of traction. Detractors, however, 128 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: have not unreasonably noted that the mysterious Maria was apparently 129 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: never heard from again, having never gone on record herself 130 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: to confirm the story. Whether we believe Maria's experience or not, 131 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: there are no shortage of people lining up to present 132 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: after life affirming accounts of their own endase, eager to 133 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: share their positive experiences of what awaits us after death. 134 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: Far less common, however, as pointed out by Gideon Lichfield 135 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: in a two and fifteen article for the Atlantic, are 136 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: those accounts as many as twenty three percent that were 137 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: wholly unpleasant experiences as suggested by Friedrich Jergensen's research. If 138 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: there were such a thing as an existence beyond the 139 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: material experience of life as we know it that didn't, 140 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: as many increasingly believe, it wouldn't conform to any religious ideals. 141 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: Would we be prepared for what that might mean exactly? 142 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: For example, in the most basic sense of what many 143 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: hope and after life to be, it would be somewhere 144 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: that conformed to our sense of self in life. After all, 145 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: what comfort would an after life be if you had 146 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: no recollection of your previous self, and yet granted such 147 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: a space existed, it would presumably be the fate of 148 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: all people that had ever lived, from those we consider 149 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: to be the most saintly to those whom we consider 150 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: to be the most depraved, and any other sentient animal 151 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: for that matter. Furthermore, presumably any artificially created intelligence that 152 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: had become self aware might also exist in that space, 153 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: not any of them having any compulsion to alter their 154 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: ways of life, attitudes, or opinions of both you and themselves. 155 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: At the end of his nineteen forty four play No Exit, 156 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: Jean Paul Sartre depicts the arrival of three characters into 157 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: a drawing room, from where they believe they will be 158 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: led into hell. As they wait, the characters are trying 159 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: to figure out just what they have done exactly to 160 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 1: deserve such a fate, when an awful realization dawns on them. 161 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: They are not waiting to be led into hell. They 162 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: are already there, trapped for eternity with each other and 163 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: in turn by the way they see each other. As 164 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: the character Garcan declaims, so this is hell, I'd never 165 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: have believed it. You remember all we were told about 166 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: the torture chambers, the fire and brimstone old wives tales. 167 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: There's no need for red hot pokers. Hell is other people. 168 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: A warning perhaps that, as ever, we should always be 169 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: careful what we wish for. If you enjoy listening to 170 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: Unexplained and would like to help supporters, you can now 171 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: go to Unexplained podcast dot com forward slash support. All donations, 172 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: no matter how large or small, are massively appreciated. All 173 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: elements of Unexplained are produced by me, Richard McClain smith. 174 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: Please subscribe and rate the show on I tune. Feel 175 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: free to get in touch with any thoughts or ideas 176 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: regarding the stories you've heard on the show. Perhaps you 177 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: have an explanation of your own you'd like to share. 178 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: You can reach us online at Unexplained podcast dot com 179 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: or on Twitter at Unexplained Pod. Now. It's time to 180 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: take care of yourself. To make time for you, teledoc 181 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: gives you access to a licensed therapist to help you 182 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: get back to feeling your best. Speak to a licensed 183 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 1: therapist by phone or video anytime between seven am to 184 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: nine pm local time, seven days a week. Teledoc Therapy 185 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: is available through most insurance or employers. Download the app 186 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: or visit telldoc dot com, Forward slash Unexplained Podcast Today 187 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: to get started. That's t e l a DC dot 188 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: com Slash Unexplained Podcast