1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language, along with references 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: to sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised. 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 2: Events happened in my hometown that enabled a serial killer. 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people I know were caught 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: up in it. I spoke to one of the good 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 2: old boy detectives. I said, did you ever occur to 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: you that you might have a serial killer? He's like, mister, 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 2: this was nineteen eighty seven. I'm not sure i'd even 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: heard the term serial killer. Our minds just didn't work 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: that way. 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 12 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the host of the historical 13 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: true crime podcast tenfold war Wicked on Exactly Right. I've 14 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: traveled around the world interviewing people for the show. I've 15 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: interviewed some people in person and some from my home 16 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: studio over zoom, and they are all excellent writers. They've 17 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: had so many great true crime stories, and now we 18 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: want to tell you those stories with details that have 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: never been published. Tenfold More Wicked presents Wicked Words is 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: about the choices that writers make, good and bad. It's 21 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: a deep dive into the stories behind the stories. 22 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 2: Maggie and I, my partner, and I looked at each 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 2: other and said, do you remember a gainy core in it? 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: By his age, he should be like two years ahead 25 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: of us. 26 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: Brian Burrow is a New York Times best selling author 27 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: and a reporter for Vanity Fair. This is a story 28 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: about a man who murdered three women in the nineteen 29 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: seventies and eighties in Texas, but it's also about the women, 30 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: those who died and those who survived. And it all 31 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: started when someone told Brian about a serial killer at 32 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: his old high school. 33 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: Maggie and I graduated from Temple High in nineteen seventy nine, 34 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: and he would have graduated had he lasted in like 35 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: seventy seven, he would have been two years ahead of us. 36 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: Neither one of us rang no bells, and there was 37 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: no connection to our hometown other than he had gone 38 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: to school there. I forgot about it. Maggie didn't. She 39 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: did some digging, and at one point, about a month later, 40 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: she came into my office and said, I think Danny 41 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: Corwin attacked girls at our high school and it was 42 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: covered up. I said, now that's the story I would do. 43 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 3: And he did this while you were in school. 44 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 2: My family moved to Temple, Texas in nineteen seventy one. 45 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: He was after the Vietnam War. The area was growing massively. 46 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: Danny Corwin's family moved there the year before. Very religious family. 47 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: They went to First Presbyterian Downtown. There were four of them. 48 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 2: Danny was the second of four. What happened with Danny 49 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 2: is I wouldn't say he was a troubled young man. 50 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 2: I would say he was from an adult's viewpoint, he 51 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: was almost overly eager to please. He was just the 52 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 2: perfect kid. They thought. Other kids thought he was creepy, 53 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: that he stared, He seemed even more than most junior 54 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: high boys preoccupied with sex. Later there would be stories 55 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: that he killed at well. 56 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: It's interesting because you know the on the checklist of 57 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: what makes a serial killer, certainly you know mutilation or 58 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: murder of animals is one of it's It's not a definite. 59 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: This all happened at a time where the science the 60 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: appreciation of not only serial killers, but emotional challenges. This 61 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: was rural Texas in the nineteen seventies and into the 62 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: nineteen eighties. This was not Sigmund Freud's hometown. If you 63 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, you know. 64 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 3: These were Sorry everyone in Temple. 65 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 2: And anyway, Danny's criminal story begins, you know, on one 66 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: night and this young woman I named her in the story. 67 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: I'm going to just choose not to name her right now, 68 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: but let's just call her Kathy. Was thirteen or fourteen 69 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: years old, babysitting an infant girl in a ranch house 70 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: in the Western Hills section of Temple, a newer section 71 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: where a lot of the newer families moved because people 72 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: were always moving in. Danny lived next door. She was 73 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: tossing a ball with the infant in the front yard. 74 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: At some point the parents left put the kid to bed. 75 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: It's nightfall, this is in the spring. She's watching a movie. 76 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: You know, it's the classic. You know, every every slasher 77 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: movie you've ever seen is exactly like this. It's like 78 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: a setup for Scream. At one point she goes back 79 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: to check on the little girl, and she notices that 80 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 2: a sliding door in a in the in the living 81 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: room is a jar. She closes it, thinks nothing of it, 82 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: and then locks it. Later, she's watching the movie and 83 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 2: she hears a noise in the back of the house. 84 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: She goes to this darkened, tiny little hallway. This is 85 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 2: a three bedroom ranch, and out of nowhere, a naked 86 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: teenager leaps out of the master bedroom with a knife, 87 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: classic hand across her mouth, knife to the neck. If 88 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: you scream, I'll kill you. Takes her end, takes off 89 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: her clothes, rapes her. When it's done, she goes into 90 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: the master bathroom to put her clothes back on. And 91 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: she's doing that, trying to comprehend all that's just happened, 92 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: when there's a soft knock at the door and she's like, well, 93 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: I can't keep him out. I mean he crashed the 94 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: door down. I got it. So she opens it and 95 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: he says, I'm sorry. I think you have my T shirt. 96 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: So he takes his T shirt and turns to leave. 97 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: Before he leaves, he says, you don't know me. I 98 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 2: live on the other side of town and leaves, and 99 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: she didn't get a good look at him. In fact, 100 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 2: months later, Danny was investigated, but he passed up a 101 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: light of detector test and so was not prosecuted. 102 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: Well, and now we know that light detectors aren't reliable. 103 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 3: There's a reason why they aren't allowed in court. 104 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: Even your medication that you're on can change the results. 105 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 2: You know, it was classic small town, small town cops 106 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: that really just couldn't prove it. So everything goes back 107 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 2: to normal. 108 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 3: He's from a respected family, religious family. 109 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is this is not some skeazy kid 110 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 2: from the wrong side of tracks, if you will, not 111 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 2: because those people would be inclined to do that, but 112 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: because those people would incline to be more suspected by 113 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 2: small town cops. Danny was upper middle class. His father 114 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: had a job as a supervisor and a local factory. 115 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: In the summer of seventy before his family begins to 116 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: encounter serious problems, they lost their house. They end up 117 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 2: living in a motor home. During all this, Dandy transfers 118 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: to the high school. He graduates from Bonham Junior High 119 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: where he was with us. He was in eighth grade 120 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: when we were in sixth and later we know that 121 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: he had not felt like he fit in at the 122 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 2: high school, that it was big, the kids weren't nice 123 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 2: to him. They didn't talk to him. You talk to 124 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 2: a lot of his classmates, they'll tell you, well, no, 125 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: we didn't really get along with him. He was quiet 126 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 2: and creepy, and he would sit in English class and 127 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 2: cut his nails with a hunting knife. Well. Yeah, The 128 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 2: thing about Danny that you have to remember is he 129 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: had what they call a flat affect, meaning he kind 130 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: of had a blank face. If he stared at you, 131 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 2: he just stared. He didn't smile a lot, He didn't laugh, 132 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 2: he didn't show anger. He was pretty much just quiet. 133 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 2: And the last day of school of nineteen seventy five, 134 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: a girl named Brenda Evans leaves school early that afternoon 135 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 2: on an errand she gets a pass. She goes out 136 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: to the parking lot to get in her car. Huge 137 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: parking lot. I parked in this lot for years myself 138 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 2: and Danny Corwin is sitting on a car next to hers, 139 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: and she says, hi, Daniel, He mumbled something. She gets 140 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: in the car, driver's side door is still open, and 141 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: suddenly Danny is pushing his way into her seat, takes 142 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: the keys. He has a knife. He says, you know, 143 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: don't say anything or I'll stab you. And she's just 144 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: like stunt. She kind of knows him. She's been in 145 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: clash with him for three years since the Corwins came 146 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: to town. Danny wheels her car out of the parking 147 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 2: lot and up thirty first, which was right along Interstate 148 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 2: thirty five there in temple Goes drives down to the 149 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: end of it about a mile down, crosses over I 150 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 2: thirty five and is suddenly in kind of a semi 151 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: rural area. There's a long rape. She fights back, she 152 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: kicks him in the crotch at one point, and then 153 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: when it's done, he attempts to force her into the 154 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: trunk of her car. There's some problem with the trunk 155 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 2: and won't open. They grapple and fight, and Danny ends 156 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: up on top of her, straddling her with his knees 157 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: over her shoulders. She can't move, and that's when he 158 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 2: takes out the knife. He drives the knife into her 159 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: chest slowly, and then he sluts her throat. One of 160 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 2: the things when writing true crime is, especially when it 161 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: deals with crimes against women, especially when it deals with 162 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: sexual violence, how much detail do you include? How much 163 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 2: is per end? 164 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: How much is an invasion of privacy, especially when you're 165 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: a male writer. Oh no kidding, So now he's escalated. 166 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 2: He watches her, looks at her for let's say a minute, 167 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 2: then leaves in the car and nearly runs her over, 168 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: and the amazing thing is Brenda Evans wasn't dead. Later 169 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 2: she would say that it was the strap of her 170 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 2: braw which she had just reput on, that the clasp 171 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 2: had been underneath the knife, the cluting of her throat 172 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: didn't actually hit the juggler. It's just stunning them out 173 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 2: of blood. But you've got this fifteen year old girl, 174 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: incredibly brave and resilient young woman, and it's you know, 175 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 2: stumbles naked out of this granite pit up onto a 176 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: rural road and a driver going by sees her, takes 177 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: her to the gulf station at the interstick, and you 178 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 2: know she lived. 179 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: And this is before cell phones, so it's incredible that 180 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: she didn't bleed out or something. 181 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 2: There's just no reason for that woe to be alive. 182 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 2: She's still alive. 183 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: When you finally reach out to her, she didn't respond, 184 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: And you said, I'm Brian Burrow. 185 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 3: I went to high school. 186 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 2: She knew who I was, and I told her I 187 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: was doing She didn't respond. That wasn't enough for me 188 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 2: because I was concerned. I mean, you want to do 189 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 2: the right thing here, you want to explain what you're doing. 190 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: But luckily the officers of her class knewer and kind 191 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 2: of carried messages to her, and the message I got 192 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 2: back was she chooses not to participate. And the members 193 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 2: of her class, as will become a parent, have for 194 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: forty years been very protective of Brenda. As the president 195 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 2: of the class told me afterwards, we kind of got 196 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 2: together and said this is just something we're ever going 197 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: to talk about, and we never really have. It was 198 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 2: not covered up officially. Danny was arrested later that day 199 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: in a car chase by the Tiny Temple Airport. A 200 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: cop who had gone to find him with his mother 201 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: was in the car with the cop went and chased 202 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 2: him down or arrested him. Danny's church got involved. The 203 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 2: first Prayersterian church leaders at the church, including the minister, 204 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: and some of the major people in town, including the 205 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: mayor and the newspaper publisher, had extensive internal debates about 206 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: what to do about Danny, and one half of the 207 00:10:55,679 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 2: congregation felt that he should just let justice do. The 208 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 2: other half, led by the minister, thought that they should 209 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: intercede with the DA and say, this was a good kid, 210 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 2: this is a good family. This just can't this can't 211 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: have happened. And of course the dark side of that 212 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: what happens. And this is in the weeks and months 213 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 2: after the attack on Brenda, is that rumors about Brenda 214 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: began to make the rounds. She was a loose girl 215 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 2: of fascir off, which is a bunch of bullshit, but 216 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 2: was very much the type of thing that you might 217 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: hear in a small town back before society became so 218 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: much more knowledgeable about this type of talk, how it 219 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 2: shouldn't be admissible. Well, back then it was not only 220 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 2: the natural type of gossip, but it wasn't missible. It 221 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: was a real concern. 222 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 3: So was this boys will be boys? Is that kind 223 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 3: of what thiss? 224 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 2: No, it was this is a good boy, a good 225 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 2: religious boy. 226 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 3: Who just went astray temporarily. 227 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 2: He must have been led on, He must have just 228 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: gone sex crazy that you know, he was a virgin. 229 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 2: We're sure she lured him into it and he just 230 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 2: went He just went crazy and panicked or something. It 231 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: was just the bad day defense. 232 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: This is a theme in pretty much everything I've ever written. 233 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: The person who appears one way, sort of the juckle 234 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: and hide, and then you know something happened. 235 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 3: So that is a defense in this case. 236 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 2: Other than a rape allegation, this was a kid who 237 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 2: never been in trouble. The church intervenes with the DA 238 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: and basically goes in and says he should be given 239 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 2: probation and treatment. And the DA is saying, you understand 240 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: this is aggravated rape. 241 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 3: And attempted murder. 242 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 2: Yes. So while the DA can just dismiss this well tough, 243 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 2: I mean, he doesn't have to listen to church. The 244 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: problem is that tips off the fact that the defense 245 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 2: in any type of trial is going to come after 246 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 2: Brenda's reputation and they're going to put Brenda on trial, 247 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 2: which you could do in rural Texas in nineteen seventy six. 248 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: And on the eve of trial nine months later, early 249 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six, the DA, who was still alive and 250 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 2: a wonderful gentleman with a wonderful memory, had to sit 251 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 2: down with Brenda and her father, who's very prominent former 252 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 2: head of the Temple school Board, and said it's my 253 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 2: duty to tell you that this could get rough. That 254 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 2: the other side has said they're going to go after 255 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 2: your reputation, said this was all your fault, YadA, YadA, YadA. 256 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 2: The father basically said, I can't put my daughter through that. 257 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 2: I will not have her essentially raped the second time, 258 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: and he said make a deal. They made a deal. Ultimately, 259 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 2: instead of being life without parole, Danny got forty years 260 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 2: with chance of parole. And you may be saying forty years, 261 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 2: what's the big difference. Well, there's a big difference because 262 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 2: in those days, the Texas prisons were very overcrowded. Danny 263 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 2: was sent to a juvenile facility down around Huntsville in 264 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 2: southeast Texas, and he's got forty years. But the fact 265 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: is he could easily have gotten out in ten or 266 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: fifteen years with behavior. Yeah, well, Danny was one of 267 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: the best behaved inmates in the history of that institution. 268 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 2: I got lucky and found out a number of his teachers. 269 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: Danny worked on all the guards cars. He was the 270 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: go to mechanic. Everyone loved him. He was an artist 271 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 2: and his art hung all over the prison. Initially, he 272 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: was given a psychiatric evaluation. He was put on some meds, 273 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 2: anti schizophrenic stuff. Danny didn't like being doped up. He 274 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 2: got off the meds. They never put him back on. 275 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 2: So I circle back to he was given forty years, 276 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: He might have served ten or fifteen. He served six. 277 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: Did he show signs of schizophrenia. No, so was it 278 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: just this is the best we can do. This is 279 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: the only medicine that could be helpful as far as 280 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: I can tell. 281 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: Let's just say the status of Texas prison medicine in 282 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four was the type of thing that can 283 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 2: really piss you off. 284 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: And knowledge of mental health issues obviously. The thing with 285 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: Danny is he acts like a quiet kid with good manners. 286 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: That's a problem in terms of diagnosis, especially if you're 287 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: not living in a world of relatively sophisticated psychologists. It 288 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: was what you would just call rue menery subject seems 289 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: well balanced. 290 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: And very very very nice, you know. Emotionally undeveloped is 291 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: what they would call him. Because he was young, he 292 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: was strangely dependent on his parents and their approval. I 293 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: mean that seemed to mean everything to him. He was 294 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 2: let out of prison in the mid eighties, like like 295 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 2: eighty four. He came back to our hometown. Danny went 296 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: back to church, She went back to First Pesterian. He 297 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: went back to living with his family. The Corwin family 298 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 2: was always very tight with another family in town. They 299 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: would go to Lake Belton together, they would go to 300 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 2: square dances. They would do a lot of stuff together 301 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 2: as families, and the younger daughter there will call her Becky. 302 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: Danny babysit for her. She idolized Danny. She was what 303 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 2: three or four years younger than he was. She would 304 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 2: go down there with other members of the extended the 305 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 2: two families to visit Danny every month, sometimes every week. Well, 306 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: when he was in prison and when he caught out, 307 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 2: Becky had always fantasized about marrying Danny. All four parents 308 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: thought this was a fabulous idea. Oh my gosh, Janny 309 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 2: and Becky become a thing, like overnight become a thing. 310 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 3: Is this his first legitimate relationship. 311 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like twenty six and she's like, she's in college. 312 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 2: She's like twenty one, twenty two. They have a pretty 313 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: you know, a pretty good relationship. Over let's say a 314 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: six to nine month period in the mid nineteen eighties, 315 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: they began having sex. The first problem really is when 316 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 2: Danny can't perform culminate, And she asked him what the 317 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: problem is. She'd only been with a couple of people, 318 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 2: and so she didn't really know, and there was no google, 319 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: as she said to me, Danny said to him, a 320 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: lot of guys have this. It's just we just don't. 321 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: We just don't do that. She said, you know, what 322 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: was I gonna do? Go on Google ask my mom. 323 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: You know, she was twenty one year old girl and 324 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: a Baptists school. It was just not so she thought 325 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 2: that was okay. The high point of their relationship was 326 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: Danny applied to Texas A and M University and got in, 327 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 2: and the mental health people, the promotion people all said 328 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 2: he's good to go. And so after about a year 329 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: back in Temple, they were still an item. Becky went 330 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 2: down to the University of Texas for graduate school and 331 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 2: Danny went to Texas A and M. And they would 332 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 2: see each other all weekends. And Danny moved with a 333 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: buddy down to Madisonville because it was cheap. His friend 334 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 2: was going to be a prison guard down there, of 335 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 2: all things, and he knew the guards, he knew guys. 336 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: So there he is living in this little town, Madisonville, Texas. 337 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 2: And as you would expect, because we're talking about true crime, 338 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 2: during all this, an older woman seventy five years old, 339 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 2: i want to say, went out for a morning walk 340 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 2: with her dog and disappeared. She was found several days 341 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 2: after a multi county everybody out with and planes and helicopters, 342 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: and they ultimately found her, you know, cut up rape. 343 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 2: He was pretty bad. No suspects. Danny's doing great, except 344 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 2: he and Becky are having problems. She's noticed that he's 345 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 2: not always truthful, whether he lies about a bad check, 346 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: little stuff like that, and of course she's trying to 347 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 2: gauge him as a potential husband, and so he just 348 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 2: wasn't opening up. He didn't seem to be capable of 349 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 2: having this type of adult relationship, so they began to 350 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 2: drift apart, as one would expect. In fact, he's flunked 351 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 2: out of a and M He wasn't even going to class. 352 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 2: He tells nobody. He doesn't tell his bosses, he doesn't 353 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 2: tell Becky, he doesn't tell his parents, who he continues 354 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 2: to visit many weekends. He moves into the town of Huntsville. 355 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: He moves to a little rental house with a buddy 356 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: within four blocks of the main prison. I mean, kind 357 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: of amazing. He still disappears every Tuesday and Thursday to 358 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 2: go to school, and everybody knows now that he wasn't 359 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: We don't really know what he was doing. What I 360 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 2: suspect he was doing, was he was driving around looking 361 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 2: for women. 362 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 3: On the hunt. 363 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's later the type of thing he suggested. Danny's 364 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 2: life goes quiet for a while, not a lot going on. 365 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: That fall, a couple of things happened. Deborah Irwin was 366 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 2: working at an eyeglasses boutique on the south side of Huntsville. 367 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: Danny and his bosses had just installed all the cabinets 368 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 2: in this place. On a Friday afternoon that fall, she 369 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 2: suddenly bursts into the office next door and she says, 370 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 2: there's a man with a gun outside, and the other 371 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 2: young woman goes, oh my God, and hides under a desk. 372 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 2: Deborah went back into the office and it was the 373 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: last time she was ever seen. They found her body 374 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 2: two days later, raped and stabbed to death in a 375 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 2: rural area outside Huntsville. No suspects, no eyewitnesses, know nothing 376 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 2: at first. 377 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: Are they connecting this at all at this point to 378 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: the seventy five year old woman. 379 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: Different county nine months ago. 380 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 3: No computerized system obviously to plug in. 381 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 2: The next day, the Huntsville police did do some of 382 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: the work that you're supposed to do, and so they 383 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 2: realized people were working at the shop, and so they 384 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 2: called Danny's boss, this older gentleman, now a retired farmer 385 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 2: down in Huntsville named Ben Ben Prewitt, and Ben said, well, 386 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 2: I should tell you the kid who works with me 387 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 2: has some type of rape or sexual assault conviction where 388 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 2: he grew up up in central Texas. You should check 389 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 2: about that. And so they do. They get Danny's record 390 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 2: and they called Ben prewit Monday morning. They say, would 391 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 2: you bring this kid in? And so Ben Prewitt brings 392 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 2: Danny very nicely, behaved, flat affect Danny into the Huntsfield 393 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 2: the police department where there are two or three Huntsville 394 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: police officers in a detective an of Texas ranger. And 395 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 2: I talked to one of the senior people who was 396 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 2: in the room that day along with Ben Prewitt and 397 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 2: basically Danny Fulham. The senior detective that I spoke to said, 398 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 2: there was just no sense that this kid could have 399 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 2: done it. He was just so nice. There was no vibe, 400 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 2: he didn't seem it all, wasn't even upset that he'd 401 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 2: been brought in. There was no sense of nervousness, and 402 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 2: there was no sense of anything you'd expect to see 403 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: if we had the guy, and so Danny walked, Danny walked. 404 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: They focused on an ex husband when the ex husband 405 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 2: had an alibi. I wouldn't say they forgot about it, 406 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: but look, this was a town of thirty two thousand people. 407 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: I want to say they had four detectives and thirty 408 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: two cops. As one of them told me, Look, crime 409 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 2: didn't just stop. There were break ins and stuff. You know, 410 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 2: we were still busy, and so I guess it's what 411 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: makes what happened after that all the more upsetting. On Halloween, 412 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 2: a woman named Debbie, she worked today in TNT and 413 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 2: a clerical thing, lived in mobile home, divorced with the 414 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 2: four year old. I want to say this is eighty seven, 415 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 2: maybe eighty six. They had been in Houston at a 416 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 2: beauty pageant. When they got home that night, the girl 417 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 2: wanted to go to another beauty pageant at the County 418 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: Fair that night, where there was a Halloween festival of 419 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 2: some type, so they decided they would do that. They 420 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 2: did that. Afterwards. On the way home, they stopped at 421 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 2: an open air car wash, one of these brick things 422 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 2: you see in Texas where there's like five bays where 423 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 2: you get a big hose of water and some soap 424 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 2: and you can wash a car. About fifteen minutes after 425 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 2: they pulled up, three women burst into the Sheriff's office, 426 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 2: which was barely a mile up the road, saying, there's 427 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 2: a woman, dad, there's a woman dead at the car wash. 428 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 2: There was a guy there, detective, and he is on 429 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: the scene. He had been out trick or treating. He 430 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 2: had just dropped by to see how things were going 431 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 2: that night. He's on the scene with his wife and 432 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 2: two small kids in a big fod one fifty, don't 433 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 2: you know, pulls into the car wash a minute later, 434 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: and this is a scene he's never forgotten, and I'm 435 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 2: telling you, I'm not sure I'll ever forget. There's a car, 436 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: you know, with a hose still firing water on the 437 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: ground in one of these bays, and as he walks 438 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 2: up to it, he sees a fallen body of a woman. 439 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 2: Clearly he can see blood. And then there's a car there. 440 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 2: It's a large, older white Cadillac, and he sees movement 441 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 2: in the car and he looks in the car and 442 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 2: he realizes there's a child appears to be four or 443 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: five years old, wearing something red who has just popped 444 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 2: the locks, locked all of them, and is hiding down 445 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 2: the car, and he tries to get the child's attention, 446 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: honey up, I'm a police I'm a police officer. I'm 447 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 2: here to help. I'm here to help mommy. And it 448 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 2: takes a moment, but eventually one of the doors opens 449 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 2: and the girl in the red dress runs out and 450 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 2: clasps room around the knees and is saying, the bad 451 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 2: man killed mommy. The bad man killed mommy. She's not 452 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 2: wearing a red dress. She's wearing a white, girly dress 453 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: that's covered with blood. And he checks her and he 454 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 2: checks her, and he realizes it's not the child's blood. 455 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: It's clearly your mother's blood. The only thing the child 456 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 2: can say is that she believes that the bad man 457 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: was driving a pickup, and she thought a brown pickup. 458 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 2: Danny does not get caught. He is not suspected except 459 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 2: by his boss, Ben Pruitt. Ben noticed the monday after 460 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 2: that attack, he came into the office the warehouse where 461 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 2: they made cabinetry, with a big bandage across his hand 462 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,239 Speaker 2: and been asking what had happened, and he said he'd 463 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 2: cut his hand opening a thing of Coco whatever, Danny 464 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: was still free. A few months go by, he continues 465 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 2: life as it had been, apparently, starts dating a new girl. 466 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 3: The girlfriend leaves him, or he breaks up with the girlfriend. 467 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: It just kind of died. And then the following spring, 468 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 2: there's a young woman at Texas A and M, an 469 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: undergraduate of sophomore. Name will call her Wendy. And one day, 470 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 2: around noon on a Thursday that spring, she went out 471 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 2: to Kyle Field, the big football stadium, and she was 472 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 2: going to go ride her horse. And she got into 473 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 2: her pick up and when she turned around, the door 474 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 2: was still open, and there was Danny standing at the 475 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: door with a knife, which he quickly put to her face. 476 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 2: She scrambled across, tried to escape. He subdued her and 477 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 2: actually managed to tie her to the seat belts so 478 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 2: that she couldn't get away. She screamed, but he had 479 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 2: the he had the windows closed, and he quickly drove 480 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 2: out of this cavernous parking lot, goes east out of 481 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 2: college station, and she keeps asking him what are you doing? 482 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 2: What are you doing what? And he just said He 483 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: just kept saying, Oh, I just need your car. I 484 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 2: just need your car. So if you'll be quiet this, 485 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: I'll be fine. I'm just gonna let you off in 486 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 2: a in a rural area where it'll take you some 487 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: time to go tell everybody what's happening. So they actually 488 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 2: end up at a new park being built kind of 489 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: out of the out of the woods on the east 490 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 2: side of Brian College station. There's a trail off into 491 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 2: the woods. He tells her to get out, and he 492 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 2: takes her down this trail, takes her into the woods, 493 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 2: finds a place, begins to rape her. They're interrupted by 494 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 2: some large trucks going down the road, and it's so 495 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 2: close that it rattles him, so he takes her more 496 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 2: deeply into the woods, finishes raping her, ties her to 497 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 2: a tree. She's naked. She keeps saying, you don't have 498 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 2: to do this. You said you aren't gonna hurt me. 499 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 2: You can just go, you can just go. At that point, 500 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 2: she feels the knife come around her throat and he 501 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 2: slices her throat and then leaves. Twelve years later, it's 502 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 2: the exact same thing. He slid a woman's throat. She's 503 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 2: there with practically no clothes on. She realizes she's still alive. 504 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 2: She slumps to the ground. She's still alive. She manages 505 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 2: to untie the knots and bring her hands to her 506 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 2: throat where she feels like she's staunching the bleeding right, 507 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 2: but she's in the woods in a part. She kind 508 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 2: of staggers down this path, retracing her steps back to 509 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 2: the parking lot the only way she knows out of it. 510 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: She comes down this path and Danny's still in the 511 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,959 Speaker 2: parking lot, sitting behind the wheel ofverer. Can you imagine 512 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: I have to get out of here. I could bleed 513 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 2: to death. Luckily he leaves in two or three minutes, 514 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 2: so she does. She hide, just hid behind a tree. 515 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. The moment he leaves, staggers out into 516 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 2: this gravel parking lot and up the little rise to 517 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 2: the blacktop, and it's there she collapses and within two 518 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 2: minutes a county employee going by in a County truck, Caesar, stops, 519 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 2: gets out, goes up to her says, honey, honey, I'll 520 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: have please here in a minute. And that's exactly what happened. Well, 521 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 2: they brought Wendy to the hospital there in Brian College Station. 522 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 2: They stabilize her. She can't talk and they interview her 523 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 2: by writing writing notes, but they don't have anything. But 524 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: it's pretty clear she's indicating she knows the face. They 525 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 2: bring this woman in who is a sketch artist, maybe 526 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 2: the first sketch artist in Texas. I went out to 527 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 2: her house and she brought out a Manilla folder with 528 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 2: her interview notes from what thirty two years ago? She said, 529 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 2: I've never forgotten because it was the most incredible cases. 530 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 2: How often do you try to make a sketch while 531 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 2: paired with a victim who cannot talk? So Karen interviewed Wendy, 532 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 2: just question after question after question, would draw a face, 533 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 2: would draw a shirt? You know what? She nod heading it, 534 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 2: and Wendy was alert and invigorous and kissed. She wanted 535 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 2: this guy caught so that these two strong women put 536 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 2: together picture that, when circulated the next day, is instantly 537 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 2: recognizable to the entire world as Danny Corwin. His old 538 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 2: prison guards phoned it in his boss Ben Pruitt. The 539 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 2: State police called Ben and say we think your boy 540 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 2: Danny Corwin did it. And there then ensues this long, 541 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: multi day thing in which the state police and the 542 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 2: local police have to pair up, have to get all 543 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: their warrants and the arrest warrants and everything put together. 544 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 2: A judge says a drawing isn't enough, so they have 545 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: to go back into Wendy's truck once again for fingerprints, 546 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 2: and they finally find a fingerprint. Apparently Danny new enough 547 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: to scrub it down. By that point, a week after 548 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 2: the police have been following him, watching him from work, 549 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: following him to his home or impruit and his partner 550 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: have to work with him every day, knowing they're working 551 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 2: with the serial killer. But he's still the same old 552 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: Danny's nice as possible, no sense of anything weird. They've 553 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 2: got like forty cops. They surround this rental house and 554 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 2: two of them take an old Beater car and they 555 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 2: back it into Danny's car in the driveway of his 556 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 2: little rental home, hoping that he will then come outside. 557 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: They need him to come outside. They don't want anything 558 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 2: where they would end up in any type of swat situation. 559 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 2: He comes out and they tackle him and rage him 560 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 2: to the ground and say, you know, and arrest. 561 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 3: Is he surprised? What's his reaction? 562 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 2: You never know what, Danny. He's not exactly going to 563 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 2: tell you what's on his mind, he's just blank. He 564 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 2: doesn't fight the charge. He was ultimately declared a serial killer, 565 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 2: legally makes deal and gets life without parole for the 566 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 2: attack on Wendy. But there's three unsolved murders around the 567 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 2: same area and Danny won't talk. 568 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 3: There's no DNA testing at this point. 569 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 2: No, come on, there's nothing. Common sense says, this must 570 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 2: be the doer for at least the two in Huntsville, 571 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,959 Speaker 2: and they think maybe the older woman, Alice Martin up 572 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: in Madisonville. Maybe they just don't know. So Danny is 573 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 2: sends to prison, He gets live, and the police obviously 574 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 2: are tremendously frustrated that they can't solve these other cases. 575 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 2: One of the older rangers at one point says, you know, 576 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 2: calm down. One day he's gonna wake up and he's 577 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 2: gonna want to tell his story. So Danny goes into 578 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 2: prison at the Ennis unit. On that first day, you 579 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 2: go to a guy who screens you. Well, this guy 580 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 2: saw Danny coming and realized the speculation from the local 581 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 2: newspapers that this guy was a suspect in these murders. 582 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 2: And Lee Roy is a little bit of a fan 583 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 2: of murder. She wrote, if you will, and he makes 584 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 2: Danny the fifteenth and last guy of the day so 585 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 2: that he can have the whole end of his day 586 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 2: to talk to Danny. Danny comes in the classic Danny mumbled, no, 587 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 2: I'm fine, it's all good. Whatever you want, and Leroy 588 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 2: at one point then says okay, kind of puts down 589 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 2: a pencil and says, so you were there at the 590 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: Vision Exchange that day, right, the eyeglasses boutique. No, no, 591 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 2: I wasn't there. Oh, come on, you were there. You 592 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: must have done this. Come on, man, you can tell me, 593 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 2: and presses him in a semi playful way about the 594 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 2: murder of this woman, Debor Irwin. Why did she say 595 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 2: to anger you? Did she dress provocatively? And Danny says 596 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: three words, I don't know, which is night and day 597 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: from I didn't do it. 598 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 3: It's not a denial. 599 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 2: It's not a denial. By the following week, he confesses 600 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 2: to all of them. He walks them through all the attacks. 601 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: Why I don't understand why, I mean, is this just 602 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: like a release or a weight off his shoulders? 603 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 2: I mean what we can only speculate. He is monumentally 604 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 2: frustrating as a defendant, because you want to understand him. 605 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: And yet Danny doesn't really communicate his motivations. He just 606 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 2: does things. 607 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 3: Maybe he doesn't know. 608 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 2: Well. I think that's what happened, because in the end, 609 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 2: if you look at the totality of the statements that 610 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: he gave to psychologists in police during and after these 611 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 2: three convictions, as well as his earlier conviction, the most 612 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 2: that he ever says is that he would feel a 613 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 2: pressure in his head and then a fog would descend, 614 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 2: and then he wouldn't remember very much until it was over. 615 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 2: And that's about all he said. 616 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 3: Sounds like bullshit. 617 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 2: I called bullshit. In the article Danny goes to death 618 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 2: row in Huntsville in the late eighties. He's only there 619 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 2: maybe three four five years. It's a big deal back 620 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 2: in Temple, So now everybody gets it. Oh yeah, back 621 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 2: in Temple, everybody's like, oh crap. There's a lot of 622 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 2: people that apologize to a lot of people. A few 623 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 2: years after Danny goes to death row, two women come 624 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 2: to interview him, one of the dead women's sisters and 625 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 2: Alice Martin's granddaughter, and they want answers because they don't 626 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 2: know there was no trial. There was no statement in 627 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 2: which he described even what happened. He confessed he's the 628 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 2: guilty guy. He's on death row. I mean, the parents 629 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 2: were absolutely clueless. We always thought he was the nicest boy. Yes, 630 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: he went his bed until he was fifteen, but we 631 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 2: just thought it was because he was a sound sleeper. 632 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 2: I mean, oh, no, no, no, no. Some of the 633 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 2: things that we now know that might tip off progressive 634 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 2: parents today did not tip off people in Temple, Texas 635 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy five. So these two women come to 636 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 2: interview Danny, and these women press Danny for a better 637 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 2: part of three hours. They do the requisite, you've ruined 638 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 2: our lives. Here's how you changed our lives. But then 639 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 2: they want answers. They woun't know what happened. He's now 640 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 2: almost forty, and he looks like kind of a pouche, 641 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 2: a little bit overweighted, well groomed, small town insurance agent. 642 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 2: He just looks like some quiet guy in your hometown. 643 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 2: And he basically insists on two things. He doesn't remember 644 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 2: details of the murders, and he doesn't have a clue 645 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 2: why he did this, no clue. He just would get 646 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 2: kind of foggy, and then things would happen and then 647 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 2: he'd forget. I call bullshit on this, because there was 648 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 2: a single medical professional, psychiatrist who said he had interviewed Danny. 649 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 2: Danny was exactly what you would expect. That he was 650 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 2: the victim, or that he acted after violent sexual fantasies. 651 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 2: That would seem self evident, you know, now, given all 652 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 2: we under But back then, the whole concept of a 653 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 2: serial killer was just becoming popularized, really beginning in the eighties, 654 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 2: and the idea that they were by and large fueled 655 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 2: by violent sexual fantasy was still a new concept. I 656 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 2: clearly believe that that's what Danny was fueled by. That's 657 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 2: what was going on here. But Danny was just telling 658 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,919 Speaker 2: these women you just could remember. And this is where 659 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 2: I knew he was lying. He said that he started 660 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 2: doing all this after he'd been raped in jail as 661 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 2: a teenager, and I knew that, in fact, he had 662 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 2: been raped in jail as a teenager by an older man. 663 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 2: After the Brenda Evans thing. Danny says it was before 664 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 2: the two temple attacks, and that's why he did the 665 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 2: temple attacks, that became a serial killer. And I'm like, dude, 666 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 2: if you're lying about this, you're lying about everything. It 667 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 2: was a naked plea for sympathy from these women. He 668 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 2: wanted this creepy way in this sympathy. Well, it's manipulation, 669 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 2: no kidding. So Danny, five years later, was taken into 670 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 2: the death chamber in Huntsville. The families were allowed into 671 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 2: these tiny, cramped viewing rooms to watch as needles were 672 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 2: put into his arm. He made this weird kind of 673 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 2: rambling final statement about eight minutes long. 674 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 3: I want to say eight minutes, you know. 675 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 2: He went on for a while, and then memorably thanked 676 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 2: the two women, the granddaughter and the sister who had 677 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 2: come to interview, for allowing me to be part of 678 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 2: your lives. Just bizarro. 679 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 3: Well obviously self serving. I mean that's what it sounds like. 680 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so Danny Corwin died not a lot of 681 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 2: news coverage. The crimes he was killed for were now 682 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 2: eleven twelve years old, and he was by and large forgotten. 683 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 2: I could see someone saying, what right do you have 684 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 2: to dredge up forty year old awful attacks? 685 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: How do you, as a journalist, explain why this is important? 686 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: By dredging this up is important? 687 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 2: Everybody understood what had happened, that there was a bad 688 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 2: seed who fooled everybody. I really didn't get that pushback, 689 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 2: the pushback that I expected. Why are you doing this 690 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: and your trustworthy? 691 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think it's important for a 692 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: journalist to come in, you know, with a reputation that 693 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: they have treated people fairly in the past. 694 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 2: Where the rubber met the road on this argument was 695 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 2: with Becky, the girlfriend who is dill in the area. 696 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,359 Speaker 2: Is a successful professional, happy, vivacious mom, happily married, all 697 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 2: the things you'd want to say. When I ultimately sat 698 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 2: down with her, she said, you have to understand, my 699 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 2: kids don't know about this. Well, I told my husband, 700 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 2: our family, friends don't know about this. Nobody knows about this, 701 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 2: and nobody remembers him. I went to Becky and I said, look, 702 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 2: I'm so so sorry. I'm sorry that this is an 703 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 2: intrusion in your life. Let me explain you what I'm doing. 704 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 2: I was prepared to be apologetic, and after barely fifteen 705 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 2: minutes she started to get angry about what it happened. 706 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 2: She was like, I watched Netflix and they do three 707 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,040 Speaker 2: part documentary series about crimes that weren't as bad. That 708 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 2: is what Danny Corwin did. And you know who remembers 709 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 2: Danny Corwin and what he did to this town. Nobody. 710 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,240 Speaker 2: You know who remembers those girls that he killed. Nobody. 711 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 2: And she became my biggest supporter, and she told me 712 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 2: the entire story. Wow, there were those who believed in 713 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 2: law enforcement that his breakup was what led to the killings. 714 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 2: To me, that's just rank speculation. I'm not sure even it. 715 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,919 Speaker 3: And also that's blaming her in some way. 716 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 2: Becky, no kidding, I mean this. 717 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 3: Is not her fault. 718 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, oh no. To me, 719 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 2: Becky was the most wide open in terms of awareness 720 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 2: of his problems. But there's a long stretch from being 721 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 2: aware that a guy has some sexual dysfunction and emotional 722 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 2: dysfunction to thinking, oh, he's a murderer. When I got involved, 723 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 2: from the DA to the class president, there was a 724 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 2: lot of people said, it's been too long. People need 725 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 2: to know what happened here to make sure this type 726 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 2: of thing never happens again. 727 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 1: One thing I want to tell you that I like 728 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: that you do is frequently when I read true crime 729 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: or listen to different networks that do true crime, when 730 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: a woman is found dead and is the victim or 731 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: the survivor. Almost always, the first description of her is beautiful. 732 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: Number one is if it's more tragic for an attractive 733 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: person to die. But number two, that is the first 734 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: adjective that people tend to use when describing a woman, 735 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: and you never did that in this whole interview. You've 736 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: never described any of these victims or the survivors as 737 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: you know, attractive or beautiful. But you're one of the few, honestly, 738 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: who I think doesn't do that. 739 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 2: That's one cliche. I haven't fallen in through that. Well, 740 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 2: thank you, you know, I got lucky. Actually give myself 741 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 2: some cret I was smart in that before circulating the 742 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 2: article or turning it in, I had Maggie and two 743 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 2: other women I respect look at it. I did not 744 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 2: describe the rapes. The violence is very vivid, in very 745 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 2: very difficult, but the sexual component of it I definitely 746 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 2: did not go into detail. 747 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: But what are the things that you've taken away that 748 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: are the main sort of broad strokes that you want 749 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: people to know about why you did this? 750 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 2: I write stories for myself. I write them because they 751 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 2: interest me, and this was a personal thing and I 752 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 2: got angry about it. I don't justify my articles to myself. 753 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 2: If it interests me frequently, that's enough. At times I 754 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 2: feel compelled to represent some type of motivation to try 755 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 2: to come up with some reason for this, but that's 756 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 2: frankly not why I did this. I did this because 757 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 2: I felt compelled to, and that's really it. 758 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 3: On the next episode of Wicked Words. 759 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 4: Out of all the serial killers you're going to meet, 760 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 4: according to the experts, Torso killers are the worst. The 761 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 4: world needed to know how serial killer cases are really 762 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,439 Speaker 4: investigated and not on television. They're way more complicated, they're 763 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 4: way more screwed up, they're way more. 764 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 3: Tragic, and they're not as transparent. 765 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: If you love historical true crime, please check out my 766 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: books American Sherlock and Death in the Air. This has 767 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: been an exactly right tenfold more media production. Alexis and 768 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: Morosi is our producer, Andrew Eapan is our sound designer. 769 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: Ellen Middleton is a researcher for US. Curtis Heath does 770 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 1: the composition, Nick Toga did the artwork, and Ilsa Brink 771 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: designed the website. The executive producers are Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff, 772 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: and Daniel Kramer. Follow Wicked words on Instagram and Facebook 773 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: at tenfold more Wicked, and on Twitter at tenfold more. 774 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: If you are an advertiser interested in advertising on our show, 775 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: go to midroll dot com slash ads, and if you 776 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 1: know of a historical true crime story that could use 777 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: some attention from the crew at tenfold more Wicked, email 778 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: us at info at tenfoldmore wicked dot com. Listen, subscribe, 779 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or 780 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.