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Speaker 1: On today's episode of News, we're talking about Fallout season two.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about Blue at Samurai, We're talking about the

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Speaker 1: Duffer Brothers, big.

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Speaker 2: Move, all that and more.

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Speaker 3: Mmm.

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Speaker 1: Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and I'm roseay Night,

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Speaker 1: and welcome back to xt revision of the podcast where

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Speaker 1: we dive deep. It's your favorite shows, movies, comics of

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Speaker 1: pop culture, company from iHeart where we're bringing you three

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Speaker 1: episodes a week, plus news and this is news.

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Speaker 3: This is news. In today's previously on episode, as always,

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Speaker 3: we are catching up on the figures geek news of

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Speaker 3: the week, including the Duffer Brothers are moving from Netflix

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Speaker 3: and they have signed well, I'm sure is a very

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Speaker 3: expensive deal with Paramount and Sony only made twenty mil

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Speaker 3: from K Pop demon Hunt as well. That's going to

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Speaker 3: be a big conversation that we can give you some

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Speaker 3: quite shocking details into.

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Speaker 1: But first, Fallout season two and the rest of news. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we get the season two official teaser trailer for the

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Speaker 1: second season of Fallout, and of course it is New Vegas,

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Speaker 1: which is tremendously exciting.

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Speaker 3: Great, there's so many great I'm just very very hyped.

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Speaker 1: Listen. I love Fallout. It's one of my favorite video

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Speaker 1: game series ever. Fallout three, New Vegas and Fallout four

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Speaker 1: are up there for me as constantly replayable game experiences.

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Speaker 1: And we loved season one. Yeah, it was a big

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Speaker 1: surprise tonally everything about it.

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Speaker 3: It was just such an unbelievably brilliantly made show. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, I love this trailer. There's so much

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Speaker 3: stuff here is just instantly fun to kind of go oh,

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Speaker 3: I recognize that. I recognize that, like they've done a

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Speaker 3: great job on the production design. We get to see

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Speaker 3: a tease of Justin Thurreau here playing a character we

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Speaker 3: were talking about last time, one of our big villain characters. Also,

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Speaker 3: I'm loving that. I feel like this trailer. I feel

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Speaker 3: like the stuff we're seeing for season two. The Gulu

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Speaker 3: Sea shippers are going crazy for it. I feel like

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Speaker 3: they understand that that is a ship that the people

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Speaker 3: are interested in, So I feel like the tension is there.

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Speaker 3: I'm I know the TikTok guys are going to be

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Speaker 3: going crazy for this season, and that's a classic weird

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Speaker 3: ship that I support. So yeah, looking just great. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think this is a really interesting situation because season

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Speaker 3: one took us all by surprise with just how fantastic

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Speaker 3: it was. So I don't think they're going into this

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Speaker 3: with kind of a It doesn't feel like it has

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Speaker 3: necessarily the same strain on it as something of the

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Speaker 3: Last of Us, where people were like, this is always

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Speaker 3: going to be fantastic. It is fantastic, Okay, how does

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Speaker 3: season two stay fantastic? I feel like everyone was like, whoat,

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Speaker 3: it can make a great TV show, video games can

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Speaker 3: be great TV shows, and for season two, we're all

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Speaker 3: just like, hope it's.

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Speaker 4: More of the same.

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Speaker 3: So I feel like they're coming in with a good place. Also,

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Speaker 3: I found it very interesting Christmas.

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Speaker 4: Type drop.

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Speaker 3: So they're dropping in September seventeen.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that means that.

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Speaker 3: They are ready for people to be watching and rewatching

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Speaker 3: and talking about this through that kind of pre Christmas

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Speaker 3: to New Year's. I think that this is them basically saying,

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Speaker 3: this is us going up against Stranger Things. That's what

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Speaker 3: it feels like to me, because I think Stranger Things

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Speaker 3: is going to be around the same time.

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Speaker 4: Speak of speaking of oh.

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Speaker 1: Look at that, speaking of the showrunners and creators behind

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Speaker 1: the Netflix mega hit Stranger Things, which will your final

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Speaker 1: season in the coming months, The Duffer brothers, at the

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Speaker 1: end of their Netflix deal, have signed a four year

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Speaker 1: film and television dealing with Paramount for an undisclosed.

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Speaker 3: But surely huge.

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Speaker 1: Here is what they had to say. Matt and Ross

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Speaker 1: stuffer a quote, we couldn't be more thrilled to be

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Speaker 1: joining the Paramount family. David, Josh and Dana are passionate

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Speaker 1: about bringing bold, original films to the big screen. To

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Speaker 1: be part of that mission is not just exciting, it's

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Speaker 1: the fulfillment of a lifelong dream. And to do so

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Speaker 1: at a studio with such a story to Hollywood legacy

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Speaker 1: is a privilege. Is a privilege we don't take lightly.

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Speaker 4: Blah blah blah, blah, blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: I do you mention stranger things in here. We're also

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Speaker 1: excited to reunite with our friends Cinny and Matt, who

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Speaker 1: among the very first to believe in an unusual little

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Speaker 1: script we wrote that became stranger Things. Remember that we

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Speaker 1: do things. So I think that this is a huge

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Speaker 1: in it and very intriguing deal. It'll be interesting to

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Speaker 1: see what they do. It'll be interesting to see what

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Speaker 1: the project. There were other projects that they were linked

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Speaker 1: to at netflick what happens to all the time I'm.

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Speaker 3: Wondering about does this I think this means that Stranger

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Speaker 3: Things is probably done done. There's no Stranger Things spin offs,

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Speaker 3: There's no nothing like that, at least not till after

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Speaker 3: this four year deal at Paramount. I'm not one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent surprised at this, because while Stranger Things was a

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Speaker 3: game changing show for Netflix, it was its first ever, huge,

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Speaker 3: big binge hit that really put it on the spot.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of this nostalgia forward zeitgeist busting series

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Speaker 3: that allowed them to merchandise, to make video games, to

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Speaker 3: do all the stuff they're doing now that makes them

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Speaker 3: billions of dollars. But it has also been like a

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Speaker 3: very prolonged rollout. The kids have aged up very much.

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Speaker 3: Millie Bobby Brown literally has a daughter. Now, that's how

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Speaker 3: far we've come. She just announced that her and bon Giovi,

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Speaker 3: John bon Giovi's son, have adopted a baby girl, so

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Speaker 3: like they are literally parents now. I think that there's

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Speaker 3: also been a lot of controversy around Stranger Things, about

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Speaker 3: its original script, about the original nature of the idea,

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Speaker 3: whether it was truly their idea or not. I also

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Speaker 3: think that Stranger Things has become a shorthand for some

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Speaker 3: of the stuff that people don't like about streaming, So.

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Speaker 4: I understand why Netflix and the Duffer Bros.

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Speaker 3: Were likely to well unlikely to continue that partnership after

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Speaker 3: you know, ten years plus. But at the same time,

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Speaker 3: you know what a four year deal right now in

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Speaker 3: streaming that means hu huge.

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Speaker 4: It's a huge deal, but also.

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Speaker 3: It's like you could probably gonna make one show in

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Speaker 3: that time, so you've really got to hope that you've

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Speaker 3: got another big a few different big ideas that you

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Speaker 3: can kind of find homes for there, maybe bring in friends,

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Speaker 3: maybe make new shows.

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Speaker 4: But I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think four years is a massive thing to announce.

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Speaker 3: But Paramount is also not in a great place right now,

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Speaker 3: so I'm interested to see where this leads and like,

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Speaker 3: what would the Duffer brothers even do even do like

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Speaker 3: a new series.

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Speaker 4: I guess maybe in.

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Speaker 3: A new space that would be and maybe.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure the first to this deal was like, what

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Speaker 1: do you got, like, open up the books, Let's see

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Speaker 1: what kind of unattached project ideas, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, Let's see a quick break and we'll be right back,

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Speaker 2: and we're back.

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Speaker 1: K Pop Demon Hunters continues to be a mega mega

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Speaker 1: mega hit as it has entered theaters and apparently.

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Speaker 3: Never seen before the it's a situation where it's going

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Speaker 3: into theaters and if you can believe it, I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is crazy news. But we are recording this on

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Speaker 3: Friday morning. They are expecting the K Pop Demon Hunters

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Speaker 3: sing along screenings, which are only going on for this weekend.

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Speaker 3: They are expecting them to be the biggest thing in

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Speaker 3: the box office this weekend. They think it's it will

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Speaker 3: be by far, it will be yeah, which is absolutely crazy,

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Speaker 3: and you'll probably think in whoa Sony animation another smash

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Speaker 3: hit like spite of us incorrect, Jason tell.

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Speaker 1: Us war Sony is only going to make something in

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Speaker 1: the realm of twenty million dollars, yes, from this licensing

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Speaker 1: arrangement with Netflix, with Netflix having no obligation to pay

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Speaker 1: any kind of revenue sharing royalties on the on the

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Speaker 1: ticket sales. Now people are ripping Sony from.

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Speaker 4: This really crazy stuff.

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Speaker 1: I take I take the completely opposite.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Tell me.

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Speaker 1: First of all, here's no, you can't predict hits.

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Speaker 2: You can if we could, If we could.

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Speaker 1: Predict hits, then this would be a very, very different world, right,

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Speaker 1: and if you could predict it, you should be the

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Speaker 1: CEO of name your entertainment company.

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Speaker 4: The biggest company in the world.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: So it what has happened here is K pop Demon

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Speaker 1: Hunters is a historic.

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Speaker 3: Zeitgeist geist movie like.

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Speaker 1: Gripping in a way that very few other things have

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Speaker 1: ever been in the history of streaming, streaming to theaters.

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Speaker 2: Like this doesn't exist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So to for me to like criticize Sony for

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Speaker 1: not like seeing this vision, I don't really. It's free

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Speaker 1: money to me. Also, it's like twenty million dollars free money.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like you're getting free money because Netflix

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Speaker 1: is shouldering all the burdens.

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Speaker 3: So so my my feeling on this is that I

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Speaker 3: think the only thing Sony did wrong here I don't

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Speaker 3: think they had a good person in the room who

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Speaker 3: could kind of read the popularity of K pop in

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Speaker 3: popular culture, because I do think that in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 3: when this was sualta Netflix, I think at least one

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Speaker 3: person should have said, Hey, even if we're selling this,

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Speaker 3: maybe let's not do like a base line like one off.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we should like hypothetically it could be really popular.

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Speaker 4: Maybe we should write in a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit of royalties, Like they essentially wrote it off as

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Speaker 3: a tax situation and you know, gave it to Netflix.

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Speaker 3: We don't know how much of the one hundred million

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Speaker 3: dollar budget was paid by Netflix and how much was

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Speaker 3: paid by Sony. We know a majority was paid by Netflix,

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Speaker 3: so that means Sony could actually just be getting back

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Speaker 3: to twenty million that they potentially put in. But I mean,

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Speaker 3: as you said already, the fact that I just could

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Speaker 3: you could even.

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Speaker 1: That, Okay, K pop is super popular, why aren't there

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Speaker 1: any other massive K pop themed properties animated properties?

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Speaker 2: Is true.

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Speaker 3: Also, another thing that I think we need to take

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Speaker 3: into consideration here is that there was a musical, a

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Speaker 3: K pop musical that went to Broadway that from what

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Speaker 3: everyone said, was absolutely fantastic, got great reviews.

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Speaker 4: It couldn't stay on Broadway.

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Speaker 3: So sometimes there are different things where people will say, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: you're not sure about this, not sure about that. I

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Speaker 3: went to a sing along screening at Netflix, which was wonderful.

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Speaker 3: Joelle was there, a bunch of our friends with her,

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Speaker 3: and EJ, who is the singing voice of Rumy and

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Speaker 3: who wrote the songs, was there, and you know, she

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Speaker 3: was saying like yeah, she never saw this coming, Like

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Speaker 3: she just thought that she was just writing some songs

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Speaker 3: for a movie. She never knew it was going to

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Speaker 3: be a number one Billboard smash hit and all that

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Speaker 3: kind of stuff. Though again, I will say I think

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Speaker 3: there could have been a bit more foresight about the

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Speaker 3: deal that was made here. And if you read Park,

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Speaker 3: if you read any of the trades, there are a

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Speaker 3: lot of conversations now going on about Sony Animation and

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Speaker 3: about this decision. But Jason, I think you sum it

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Speaker 3: up most, which is like, you could never know that

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Speaker 3: it was going to be this popular, that it would

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Speaker 3: jump from streaming to being the number one movie.

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Speaker 1: Weird the scenes doesn't happen. You don't see this in

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Speaker 1: the industry. This is like why didn't you guys predict

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Speaker 1: the lightning wage strike. I don't disagree that probably their

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Speaker 1: lawyers should have been a little bit more hardcore on

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Speaker 1: the deal points. Yeah, but again, some of this stuff

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Speaker 1: is so like pie in the sky, like this sin

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Speaker 1: theater run.

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Speaker 3: It's so natur a sky that they were going to

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Speaker 3: get the theater run. I do think stuff like merchandising,

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Speaker 3: stuff like that. I think if you've been in this

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Speaker 3: business long enough, if you've tried to sell a show

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Speaker 3: or a comic book or whatever, you know that there

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Speaker 3: are these different ways.

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Speaker 4: Even if just look back at the history.

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Speaker 3: Of like Alec Guinness's famous two percent back end on

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Speaker 3: Star Wars that was like included all the merch and stuff,

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Speaker 3: I feel like there should have been some kind of

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Speaker 3: conversation about it. And I feel like in the post

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one kind of landscape that we're in, the

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Speaker 3: strikes all these different stuff, the animation being seen as

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Speaker 3: not a viable property to make money from, especially on streaming.

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Speaker 3: I get it, but I also understand why there is

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Speaker 3: such a big conversation around this.

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Speaker 1: Sure, especially when I think so listen, their lawyers are

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Speaker 1: going to get in like whoever did these dealsactre get

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: That's that's real.

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Speaker 1: Like and Sony Animation is going to continue to hemorrhage

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Speaker 1: like U workers as they continue to you know, downsize,

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Speaker 1: and they could have used the money.

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Speaker 4: All I'm saying is, like the.

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Speaker 1: Star Wars comparison, it's very easy with twenty twenty hindsight

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Speaker 1: to go, oh.

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Speaker 3: Everything, Oh no, exactly, That's what I'm saying. Like, and

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Speaker 3: also I think when something is so beloved and like

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Speaker 3: the quality is so high, which K pop Demenhunters is.

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Speaker 3: The songs are great, that's what makes it so magical.

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Speaker 3: But like, and it's obvious when you love it that

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Speaker 3: you can see the quality, But you would never know

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Speaker 3: back then that you could see that. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: unlikely that there was someone in the room, And even

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Speaker 3: if there was someone in the room, it's unlikely that

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Speaker 3: a bunch like c Suitet Execs are going to be

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Speaker 3: like listening to like, oh, but the pop songs are

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Speaker 3: real bangers, you know, Like it's I totally understand that

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Speaker 3: kind of issue.

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Speaker 1: Agree, you know, the good songs come out all the time,

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Speaker 1: they don't become hit so exactly one of those just

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Speaker 1: crazy lightning straight.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, and I can't I also just say, like,

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Speaker 3: I cannot recommend enough seeing I've watched the movie a

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Speaker 3: ton of times on streaming because it's brilliant and I

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Speaker 3: have lots of kids in my life who love to

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Speaker 3: watch stuff like that. But also seeing it in the

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Speaker 3: theater was pretty unbelievable because especially the finale of the

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Speaker 3: movie is a group of fans coming together to sing

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Speaker 3: this song that saves the world, so having the sing alongs.

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Speaker 4: With people singing along.

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Speaker 3: It didn't surprise me that out of seventeen hundred screens,

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Speaker 3: they sold out eleven hundred of them. And also as well,

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Speaker 3: the crazy thing is, seventeen hundred screens should not be

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Speaker 3: able to get you in number one in America right

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Speaker 3: now when some movies are showing on forty three hundred

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Speaker 3: screens or something weapon is showing on three thousand screens.

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Speaker 3: So the fact that they were able to kind of

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Speaker 3: harness this massive popularity and move really quick on getting

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Speaker 3: it into cinemas, I got to give Netflix credit for

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Speaker 3: the way that they have handled this movie because since

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Speaker 3: it's like they have understood from the moment that it

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Speaker 3: started to become when it's become, they made it the FYC,

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Speaker 3: they put it in theaters so they saw I think

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Speaker 3: we could see this run go on for a few

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Speaker 3: more weeks. I doubt it will be out of the

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Speaker 3: as off the warm week is my gut saying.

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Speaker 1: The influence of Taylor Swift a little bit okay. Speaking

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Speaker 1: of animation offerings from Netflix, Blue Eye Samurai season two

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Speaker 1: official trailer has dropped and it includes some futurette footage

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Speaker 1: from creators Ambernozomi and Michael Green just about the project

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Speaker 1: and listen, this was one of the best things on

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Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, No Question last year and I can't wait

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Speaker 1: for season two.

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Speaker 4: Can't wait.

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Speaker 3: I also think great idea to do this kind of

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Speaker 3: in production post. Keep it in people's minds. Animation takes

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Speaker 3: a long time to make, streaming takes a long time

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Speaker 3: to make.

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Speaker 4: Like crazy, crazy.

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Speaker 3: Amounts of work are going into this, so keep people excited.

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Speaker 3: This is my mum's most anticipated show. She loved season one.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of a game change of her. It

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Speaker 3: opened her mind up to add or animation outside of

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Speaker 3: your standard kind of Gibbli space. So this was a

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Speaker 3: huge show for She's watched it multiple times. That kind

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Speaker 3: of tells you the massive reach that this has. That's

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Speaker 3: like a woman who is in her sixties in London

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Speaker 3: from up north, this is the show she cares about most,

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Speaker 3: coming back, even more so than like a Shogun. Even

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Speaker 3: though she liked it, she found it pretty dense. She

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Speaker 3: found this just really great. I think it does have

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Speaker 3: that broad reach and yeah, I mean it's also just

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Speaker 3: the stunning show, So yeah, good job. Some big wins

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Speaker 3: for Netflix are in this News.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, let's go.

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Speaker 3: To some ads from our sponsors before my chat with

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Speaker 3: Celia Rose Gooding from Strange New Worlds, and we're back. Yes,

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Speaker 3: we are talking to Ahura herself about her legacy, her

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Speaker 3: massive new episode, and kind of the nature of Starfleet

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Speaker 3: and what it really means to be in the world

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Speaker 3: of Star Trek. Selia Rose Gooding, thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for joining us on X ray Vision.

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Speaker 4: How are you doing. I'm good.

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Speaker 5: Thank you for having me, Rosie. I'm so excited to

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Speaker 5: do this.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna be so great.

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Speaker 3: I was supposed to be here with that incredible super

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Speaker 3: producer Joel as well, who's another big fan, So I

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Speaker 3: just want to shout her out. I have one very

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Speaker 3: special question from her, which I will insert somewhere in

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Speaker 3: here because she's a total powerhouse. But yeah, shout o Joelle.

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Speaker 3: She's great and she organized this incredible interview, so I

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Speaker 3: appreciate her for putting the podcast together as usual and

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Speaker 3: making it great. So let's start with kind of the

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Speaker 3: broad feeling for you of the way that this show

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Speaker 3: expands the law of the show and the lawa of

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Speaker 3: Star Trek, for sure, but it expands on her so much.

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Speaker 3: This is something we've never really gotten to see, these

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Speaker 3: kind of more personal, intimate moments that are actually about

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Speaker 3: her rather than another man on the ship. You know,

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Speaker 3: in the original series, as much as we love Nachelle,

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Speaker 3: she absolutely smashed it. How does it feel to get

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Speaker 3: to be expanding that story and get to be expanding

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Speaker 3: that legacy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's an honor to be able to expand on

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Speaker 5: an already iconic legacy. I think even with the little

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Speaker 5: screen time and the little got to know about the

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Speaker 5: character of Uhura, she still had such an incredible impact

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Speaker 5: just by her sheer presence on the bridge, and so

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Speaker 5: to give her more context and more background and sort

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Speaker 5: of explain how she became the person that she becomes,

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Speaker 5: it's an honor to be a part of that journey.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such an iconic franchise. But I think something

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Speaker 3: that's been done so brilliantly since the beginning is the

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Speaker 3: way that it reimagines itself for the current time and

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Speaker 3: it becomes a story about the time we are in

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Speaker 3: Your episode of strange Nuance really feels like that, It

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Speaker 3: really feels like it's unbelievably prescient. And could you talk

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Speaker 3: a little bit about where we meet her in this

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Speaker 3: episode and kind of what she is facing as the

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Speaker 3: crew kind of makes this, you know, fun documentary framing,

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Speaker 3: but there's something deeper there.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. I think episode not to to my own hornor

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Speaker 5: Nazi by, but I think that Episode seven is one

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Speaker 5: of the most classically Star Trek episodes of the season

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Speaker 5: because it is it's exactly as you said, it's incredibly pressing.

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Speaker 5: It's social political commentary. It is putting a lens to

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Speaker 5: society and to institutions, but also to the individual in

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Speaker 5: a way that I think is very classically Trek. We

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Speaker 5: find Uhura in the middle of a really interesting time emotionally.

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Speaker 5: She is just coming off of an incredibly intense mission.

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Speaker 5: She has been really like still coming to terms with

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Speaker 5: her identity in Starfleet. She has made peace of the

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Speaker 5: fact that she is where she is meant to be.

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Speaker 5: Now she is coming to terms with what she is

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Speaker 5: meant to do where she is, and in the episode

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Speaker 5: we see her having issues with command and trying to

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Speaker 5: figure out what it means to be an incredibly empathetic

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Speaker 5: human being but also a soldier carrying out the missions

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Speaker 5: of a system much greater than hers and working within

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Speaker 5: a system that may have a different motive than hers,

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Speaker 5: or different intentions than hers. I think one of her

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Speaker 5: greatest strengths is her heart and her empathy and her

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Speaker 5: ability to put herself in the shoes of other people. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 5: that is what she's sort of hanging up on in

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Speaker 5: three oh seven, where she is really trying to hold

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Speaker 5: space for the Jakaru and understand that it is its

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Speaker 5: own entity, while also seeing it as something that's being

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Speaker 5: taken advantage of by a by a race of people

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Speaker 5: who she is tasked to help. But even in that

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Speaker 5: we layer in the nuance of this is a desperate people.

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Speaker 5: They are facing war against a sister planet that has

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Speaker 5: so much more power than them, that is so much

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Speaker 5: more backing than them, and so of course desperate times

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Speaker 5: call for desperate measures, and that is why the Lutani

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Speaker 5: are in a really difficult position where they are trying

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Speaker 5: to gain some footing in this war, and the way

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Speaker 5: they go about it is by taking this alien warhorse

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Speaker 5: species under their against their will, into their sort of

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Speaker 5: war machine. And we are having to balance both of

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Speaker 5: those things of understanding the desperation of the Lutani, but

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Speaker 5: also holding space for the agency and the autonomy of

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Speaker 5: the Jakari and that species, and then whoa someone who

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Speaker 5: is always trying to mahold space for the agency and

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Speaker 5: autonomy of people all the time is being she's fighting

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Speaker 5: her own impulse.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she's being very I think this is an episode

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Speaker 3: where one like you said one of the most classic

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Speaker 3: Star Trek conundrums of all time, how do you help?

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Speaker 4: And what are you allowed to do?

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Speaker 5: And I think.

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Speaker 3: Something that I found so profound about this episode is

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Speaker 3: that when it comes to her, like it feels like

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Speaker 3: it shouldn't all be on.

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Speaker 4: Her, but it feels like the institution.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like it feels like you'll get the

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Speaker 3: Hura gets her big episode and suddenly it's about all

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Speaker 3: this work that she personally. And of course it's because

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Speaker 3: it's about you, right, it's about her. But I thought

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Speaker 3: it was very interesting that your big episode was an

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Speaker 3: episode about a black woman having to do.

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Speaker 4: All the work. When you talk a little bit about

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Speaker 4: kind of that side of the.

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Speaker 5: Episode, yeah, I remember reading the episode and feeling really frustrated. Truthfully,

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Speaker 5: I remember reading the script and being like, what you mean,

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Speaker 5: Like she wouldn't do this sort of stuff. She would

436
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 5: ask questions, she would constantly be holding space and the

437
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 5: writer Alan McElroy he had to sit me down and

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00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 5: hold my hands and say. The whole point of this

439
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 5: is we see her making a decision that she may

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Speaker 5: not necessarily agree with. Unfortunately, sometimes we are tasked with

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Speaker 5: making decisions that as soon as we make them, we

442
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 5: immediately wish we made a different one. Yeah, and what

443
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 5: it feels like to sort of move through that. And

444
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 5: as a black woman, someone who is carrying so much

445
00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 5: grief and so much history to she projects her own

446
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 5: experience onto the Jakaru, which is very classic. She is

447
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 5: I think Uhura as a person operating in a system

448
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 5: bigger than her and out of her control. She can

449
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 5: project that experience onto the Jakaru, which is a very

450
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 5: vulnerable minority alien group being forced to operate in a

451
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 5: system much bigger than it with intentions that they may

452
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 5: not necessarily agree with. And so when we think about

453
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 5: the parallels between Uhura as a black woman and the

454
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 5: Jakaru as an alien species, they are both being tasked

455
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 5: with objectives that they don't necessarily understand because they are

456
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 5: not being informed on the wholeness of what's happening here.

457
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 5: Laura is not a commanding officer. She's not a captain,

458
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 5: she's not a commander, she's an ensign, and so she

459
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 5: isn't even a lieutenant. Yet she is still someone who's

460
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 5: taking orders and filling out someone else's idea of what

461
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 5: the proper course of action is. And so when we

462
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 5: sort of zoom out from that reality and see her

463
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 5: as just a black woman in an institution.

464
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 4: Bigger than her.

465
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 5: Of course, she's being tasked to sort of put her

466
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 5: feelings to the side and just get the work done

467
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 5: and execute and execute and execute. And at the end

468
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 5: of the episode, we see her sort of challenge herself

469
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 5: in the way of nobody should ever have to just

470
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 5: blindly follow orders, even and esespecially when those orders go

471
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 5: against your gut, because every time follows her gut, she

472
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 5: saves the day.

473
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 4: Exactly.

474
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 5: It is only when she sort of puts her intuition

475
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 5: to the side and follows the orders of someone else,

476
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 5: that's when things go haywi or that's when things go icky.

477
00:26:55,320 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 5: And so I'm still ill grappling with the decisions that

478
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 5: Uhura makes the episode. I am such an empathetic actor,

479
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 5: and I really had a very h a tense is

480
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 5: the word. Yeah, it was definitely like trying to cut

481
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 5: through a well done stake of like, I'm going to

482
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 5: get to the bottom of this, but I'm gonna have

483
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 5: to shake the table a little bit gruid analogy. Thank you,

484
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 5: I know you follow me there, But yeah, it was

485
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 5: it was definitely a challenge and emotionally the sort of

486
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 5: processing that I had to do in order to get

487
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 5: that episode behind me in order to show up for

488
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 5: the next day. That was definitely one of the one

489
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 5: of the biggest emotional lips I think Uhra has had

490
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 5: in the series so far. But it is I'm glad

491
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 5: it's in the I'm glad it's a very classically Trek problems.

492
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 4: It really is.

493
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 5: In a season that is so like out of the

494
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 5: Trek norm.

495
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 3: I know, it's really interesting that you have this documentary

496
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 3: framework which is so fun and totally new, never been

497
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 3: known before. But the layers that are there and that

498
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 3: especially for horror, is just I think that's the perfect

499
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 3: balance of Star Trek because you can have you know,

500
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 3: the tribles or something, you can have like the cutesy,

501
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 3: weird scary thing. Yeah, you can be doing a neo

502
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 3: noir or Patrick Stewart is you know, doing Shakespeare on

503
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 3: the ship. But you also always have to be thinking

504
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 3: about what like a radical imagination looks like, what a

505
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 3: future looks like. And that's the balance that I think

506
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 3: is part of why everyone loves Strange New Worlds so much,

507
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 3: because it does that balance of character and then those

508
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 3: really surreal, like out there genre episodes and just really cool,

509
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 3: kind of different than we've seen in a while, but

510
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 3: the feel very star Trek. I also think something that's

511
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: kind of amazing and is the best, you know, for

512
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 3: a prequel, This is kind of the dream. This is

513
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: one of those episodes where now every single time I

514
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 3: go back and watch the original series, I'm going to

515
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 3: be thinking about how this moment ended up informing Ahura,

516
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 3: And I think that's how you know there has been

517
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 3: a successful expansion of a franchise, because to me, that's

518
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: the same character now, you know, it's like watching Wicked

519
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 3: and everyone's like, well, this is my canon for the

520
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: words it was now like this is party, but you

521
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 3: actually get to really be a part of that canon,

522
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 3: which I thought. I just feel like this episode is

523
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 3: a really great jumping on point for people too, which

524
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: is something I think. Another thing I think that Strange

525
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 3: the world's has done really well is you guys have

526
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: basically created an accessible Star Trek series. Okay, so I'm

527
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 3: going to ask you, speaking because of the evolution of

528
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 3: kind of Ahura, what my wonderful producer Joelle wanted me

529
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 3: to ask was, could you talk a little bit about

530
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 3: your hair journey as a horror from season one to

531
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: season three?

532
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, because she is.

533
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: We were really talking about how the more comfortable of

534
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 3: her is, the more we're seeing her with like her

535
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 3: hair out and natural fashions and stuff, and it's very

536
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: different to that person we met in the first season

537
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: who was that soldier. So could you talk a little

538
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 3: bit about what a Hoa's hair kind of represents and

539
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 3: how you've helped shape that because it's your head and

540
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 3: it's your hair.

541
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 4: It sure is.

542
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 5: I think, to be really specific, the relationship that black

543
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 5: women have with their hair is so sacred and everyone

544
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 5: expresses themselves differently, but I think, and this is coming

545
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 5: from the for audio listeners, I am a black woman.

546
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 5: I know what I'm talking about.

547
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 3: Her is one of the most famous black characters of

548
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 3: all time. Guys, come on, let's go said, Let's go

549
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 3: see Star Trek. The original series forever.

550
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 5: Let's do it forever and ever and ever long live.

551
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 5: I think our community more than most really express themselves.

552
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 5: And you can tell how we're doing by how our

553
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 5: hair looks on any given day. And I think that

554
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 5: in the first few seasons, the first couple seasons, we

555
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 5: see her very very closed in on herself, very folded in,

556
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 5: very insecure, very unsure. She isn't putting her her she

557
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 5: isn't putting roots down anywhere. She's just sort of like

558
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 5: letting the wind push her wherever it's meant to go.

559
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 5: And in season three, after the musical episode, which I

560
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 5: think was her real turning point of when she decides

561
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 5: that not only is she meant to be here, that

562
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 5: the Enterprise is better when she is there, and that

563
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 5: her crew is better off with her being an active

564
00:31:53,240 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 5: participant in in her station. And so after that episode

565
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 5: we see her sort of exhale in a way that,

566
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 5: as the person who carries her through this journey, felt

567
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 5: so satisfying. I've been waiting for her to like take

568
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 5: up space in a way that is undeniable, in a

569
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 5: way that is so clear and specific. And so when

570
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 5: we when we time cut, because there's a massive time

571
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 5: cut between the season two finale, season three premiere opener

572
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 5: I don't Know, and then the cut between the first

573
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 5: episode of season three and the second episode of season three.

574
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 5: I think she has done so much therapy. I think

575
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 5: she has.

576
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: Done who is the therapist on the ship?

577
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 5: Listen find out who knows fingers crossed? But I think

578
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 5: we see her in the beginning of episode two at

579
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 5: a point where she feels comfortable enough to literally let

580
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 5: her hair down, to let her hair out, to take

581
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 5: up space, to just smile, wider, walk taller, think bigger,

582
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 5: And you can see it in how she expresses herself.

583
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 5: She is more glamorous, she is more expressive, she's more excited,

584
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 5: she's more flirtatious, she's more inquisitive. She's just more and

585
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 5: more herself. I think my task, along with the task

586
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 5: of other people reprising roles that exist in the original series,

587
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 5: is to keep the character recognizable, but also fill in

588
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 5: every little gap between where they were and where they're going.

589
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 5: And I think this sort of space her expression is

590
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 5: a gap that needed to be filled. I think in

591
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 5: the original series, She's Glamo is on nine House, and

592
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 5: like she's she's the glamor diva of the Enterprise, and

593
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 5: so it was really important for me to express that

594
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 5: to the hair team, to the showrunners, to the suits

595
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 5: that it's really important that even though she is a soldier,

596
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 5: and even though she is an officer of Starfleet and

597
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 5: there is a sort of military feel to the world,

598
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 5: it is important that she remained joyous in her expression

599
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 5: and she remain unique and enthusiastic and casually glamorous. Like

600
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 5: it's sci fi. She's not spending two and a half

601
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 5: hours in the neighbor to get her Yeah, she's got this.

602
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,439
Speaker 5: She'll put on a little space space mask and blast

603
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 5: of eyeshadow on her face she goes.

604
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 4: To work exactly.

605
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 5: It's the little ritual of that. It's her honoring herself

606
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 5: and honoring her multiplicity and honoring her expression in a

607
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 5: way that she didn't have the time, the space, the

608
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 5: confidence too in previous seasons. And so, yeah, her journey

609
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 5: in her expression it as someone who loves expression, of

610
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 5: someone who loves drag and costuman hair and big, big

611
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 5: expression outward. Aesthetic wise, it was really important for my

612
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 5: journey through the character to sort of weave a little

613
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 5: bit of my personal taste into that while also keeping

614
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 5: it recognizable and akin to the legacy that Michelle Nichols

615
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 5: left behind for me to just keep putting in my

616
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 5: little basket of character understanding.

617
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love it.

618
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 3: I think it's just wonderful to get to revisit old

619
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 3: characters in new ways. I think it's the way that

620
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 3: we keep storytelling going on. And obviously Star Trek has

621
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 3: such a legacy as a ground bright for sure, and

622
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 3: I think even the fact that you are someone who

623
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 3: is in that space talking to people about this stuff,

624
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: telling them why it's important, that's you shaping the Star

625
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: Trek universe too.

626
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, trying my best.

627
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah.

628
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 3: I think it's really exciting. And you don't have to

629
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 3: tease anything that's actually gonna happen, but you can.

630
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 4: Do you have a dream.

631
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 3: For her that you haven't gotten to achieve yet, or

632
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 3: something you would love to get to see her do

633
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 3: as the seasons kind of roll on towards the end.

634
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I don't know if we'll get time too,

635
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 5: because we just finished shooting season four and season five

636
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 5: is quite limited, but I hope that we get to

637
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 5: see somebody from Ohora's home, like some childhood friend or

638
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 5: an auntie or an uncle, because we know that she's

639
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 5: faced so much loss in her family. But I know

640
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 5: that she she wouldn't be who she was or is

641
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 5: without some understand of the importance of community exactly, and

642
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 5: I don't think you learn that in a vacuum. And

643
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 5: so I would love to get to meet who her

644
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 5: community was before Starfleet, who was able to hold her

645
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 5: up in times of great loss, who was able to

646
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 5: be there for her when she made the decision to

647
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 5: go to Starfleet. And while I would have loved for

648
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 5: Who's grandmother, the person who told her about Starfleet, to

649
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 5: be played by the late Great Nashaw Nichols, I do

650
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 5: what opportunity that would have been confect But yeah, I

651
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 5: would love to meet some of either or HER's true

652
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 5: family or some of her chosen family, which is even

653
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 5: as important as the people you're related to by blood.

654
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And also I love that because that is actually

655
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 3: another great star Trek trope, like when somebody's family has

656
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 3: to come on to the Enterprise, it just absolutely changes

657
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 3: all the dynamics on the ship, and there's just so

658
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: much fun. So I think that's a you know, very

659
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 3: in that Trek realm that you're already playing and well Salia,

660
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 3: thank you so much for joining us.

661
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to such a tree anytime and talk about whatever

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Speaker 3: you like. But obviously playing an icon is such an

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Speaker 3: exciting thing to talk about, and I appreciate you taking

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 5: I appreciate your very, very inquisitive questions. I love when

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Speaker 5: people like care about it enough to talk about the

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Speaker 5: meat and potatoes of it, not just it's on the surface.

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Speaker 5: So I appreciate your curiosity and thank you for your time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: On next week's episode of Extra Vision, we're diving into

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Speaker 1: episode nine of Foundation season three.

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Speaker 5: That's it for news.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Bye x ray Vision is hosted by

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00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: Jason Cepcion and Rosie Night and is a production of

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Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts.

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00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Korfman.

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Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.

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00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dian Jonathan and Bay Wack.

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Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

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Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

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00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and

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Speaker 3: Heidi are discorded.

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Speaker 4: Moderator m