1 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: We welcome you to another edition of the Official Titans Podcast, 2 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: better known as the OTP. I'm Mike Keith along with 3 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: Amy well Am. How are you? I'm great? How are you? 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: I'm doing well? Thank you and it's great to see 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: you you too. Good to be back here at Saint 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: Thomas Sports Park and visiting with our special guest, Ven Marino, 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: the Titans Vice president of I guess it's football administration, right, 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: is that correct? Correct? That is correct? Okay, So better known, 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: however in this building as the salary cap. Gurut absolutely 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: the man who is in charge of the cap. Have 11 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: you been involved with the cap itself since the league 12 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: got a cap? Yes, since day one basically. So I 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: started off actually at the league office right out of 14 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: college and the one I would be more interested in 15 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: public relations. So I started off there, kind of realized 16 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: that wasn't my bag and moved over to player personnel, 17 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: which in the league office is different than at a team. Obviously, 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: in a team you're evaluating talent and such. There you're 19 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: applying the rules, the roster rules and such the teams. 20 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: At that point, there was no salary cap, so I 21 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: was there doing that for a while. Then the salary 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: cap came into being, and it was basically kind of 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: all hands on deck because I worked closely with the 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: management council which handled the salary cap when he came in, 25 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: and player personnel kind of worked hand in hand with 26 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: the roster movements versus you know what the salary cap 27 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: treatment would be, so kind of got to learn it 28 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: from the from the ground up, which was a great experience, 29 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: and tying it to the roster movements was also huge, 30 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: a huge help coming coming here because now I know 31 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: I knew what the ramifications were for each particular move 32 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: So to answer the initial question, yes, from day one 33 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: to me, it's really helped me in terms of getting 34 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: to this spot. Twenty five years ago, nineteen ninety four, 35 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: the cap came into being. It was thirty four point 36 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: six million dollars. Correct, that's right, you did your research. 37 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: Nice good job, Mike. How do they establish that? Like 38 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: that seems a little bit like an arbitrary number, and 39 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: every year it seems kind of like an arbitrary number. 40 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: What are they considering when establishing what the cap is? Yeah, 41 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: looking at it simplistically, because I don't get involved, obviously 42 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: with the complicated formula. If you will for that, but 43 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: it's basically it's based on revenues team revenues, league revenues 44 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: such as television contracts, things at the stadium, gate receipts, 45 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: things and such, and then you have some credits like 46 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: stadium construction credits that come off, so that lessens the 47 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: full amount of the revenues a little bit. Then you 48 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: have benefits which are carved out for the players, which 49 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: are not considered salary cap treatment, but that comes off 50 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: of it. So it's all kind of that one pool. 51 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: And then you're left with that amount, and there's a 52 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: percentage of the revenues that it has to hit each year, 53 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: and that has not been an issue. It's always hit 54 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: those percentages. So that's how you're left with your with 55 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: the salary cap. And it was thirty four point six 56 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: as you mentioned back then. It's grown to one hundred 57 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: and eighty eight point two million as of today. Let's 58 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: say it's okay, yeah, twenty five years, that's pretty good growth, 59 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: all right, So everybody wants to know how a player's 60 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: salary cap is figured. Let's say we've given player X 61 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: a three year deal worth six million dollars. Are you 62 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: writing this down Amy, Yeah, ye, six million dollars total deal. 63 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: The signing bonus is three million dollars. All right, So 64 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: if the salary the first year is five hundred thousand dollars, 65 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: then what is player x's salary cap cost his charge 66 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: to the team in year one? Okay? If I followed 67 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: all those numbers correctly, all right, I run down here 68 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: perfect three million dollars over the three years. Right, six 69 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: million dollars over three years. Three million dollar bonus. Okay. 70 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: So you take the three million and you divide it 71 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: over the number of years to proade it as a 72 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: cap charge up to a maximum of five years. So 73 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: if you had a six year deal, you would only 74 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: go five years in terms of paration. So on this example, 75 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: we take the three million, divide it by three years, 76 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: so you start with a million dollars signing bonus charge 77 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: in each year, and then in the first year it's 78 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: a half a million as a salary, So your first 79 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: year cap down is a million and a half. Wow, 80 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: it's really not that hard. I'm not very good with numbers, 81 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: so my ears are smoking already. Don't be given away 82 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: that it's not that Okay, he's trying to keep a job. Here, 83 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: here you go. I got it. So okay. So if 84 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: signing bonuses are obviously guaranteed, like that's money that you're 85 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,559 Speaker 1: going to get because it's a bonus. But what about 86 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: player salaries? Are those guaranteed as well? That is negotiated, 87 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: So no, a large number of players not have guaranteed salaries. 88 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: Free agents you know how to highly sought after, excuse me. 89 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: Free agents during that period are going to get a 90 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: decent amount of contract guaranteed. Not going to be the 91 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: full amount by any stretch, but there'll be some guaranteed 92 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: salaries for sure. Some of your your first and second 93 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: round picks will have guaranteed salaries, so it will vary, 94 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: but by and large, a large part of the league 95 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: will not have guarantees. There's one caveat in terms of 96 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: termination pay, where when a veteran who's been in the 97 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: league for at least four years is makes your opening 98 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: day roster, then he's entitled to his salary one time, 99 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: so he can For example, if you had a player 100 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: and he was cut halfway through the year four year vet, 101 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: he would be entitled to the other half of a 102 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: salary if he if he so chooses, even if he 103 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: goes with another team, So he would decide at that 104 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: point at the end of the year, Hey, do I 105 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: want my termination pay this time one shot at it, 106 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: or perhaps, you know, unfortunately, maybe this will happen to 107 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: me again later down the line, and maybe I'll have 108 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: a greater salary. So he would decide, and that is 109 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: a form of guarantee. But to answer your question, I 110 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 1: would say a large part of the league does not 111 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: have guaranteed salaries, but so there are some options there 112 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: for some guys that are vested. Correct. Okay, here's a question. 113 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: Because the salary cap is a big pool of money 114 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: that that's how much you can spend. Who all counts 115 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: against the cap? Like do coaches count against the cap? 116 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: Does Mike Keith count against the cap? You have to 117 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: be able to throw football? I don't think, Mike, no disrespect, 118 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: not anymore. Well so, no, it's just players. Coaching salaries 119 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: are separate and there is no cap on that. It's 120 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: pretty much a team team wide decision how much and 121 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: how little to pay coaches. So it's really just entirely 122 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,679 Speaker 1: player salaries. Well, there you go, Mike, they're not capping 123 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: you there. Okay, Well that's good. Guys the limit. There, 124 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: guys the limit. That's exactly right. So it's players on 125 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: the act, your roster, players on injured reserve, players on 126 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: the practice squad. Who all I mean is it's every player? Yes, 127 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: it is pretty much. It's all as you said, injured 128 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: reserve people. And sometimes those players you might have a 129 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: what we call split contract where's it goes down. It's 130 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: a lesser amount if they're on injured reserve. That's generally 131 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: done with more of junior if you will players coming out. 132 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: Certainly a lot of vets don't have it, or maybe 133 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: vets more toward the latter part of their career might 134 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: have it. But those salaries will count. Practice squad as 135 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: you said, counts as well. And obviously the fifty three 136 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: man roster the NFL counts every dollar. There's no exception 137 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: like in the NBA. That is correct. The only thing 138 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: you could argue, I guess that is an exception, which 139 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: it really isn't because the dollars are eventually caught are incentives, 140 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: and the difference you have you have likely to me 141 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: an incentives versus non likely to be an incentive. So 142 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: really what those are are, you'd take a look let's 143 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: talk about veteran contracts. You take a look at whatever 144 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: the incentive might be. For example, if a quarterback passes 145 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: for twenty touchdown passes, what you would do is say, 146 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: did he do that last year? If he did, you 147 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: would count at the beginning of the season whatever that amounts. 148 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: He was one hundred thousand dollars. If he did it, 149 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: you'd count that as likely, it would count against your cap. 150 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: At the end of the year, you would go in 151 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: and see, okay, kind of a debit and credit process. 152 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: Did he do that. If he didn't do it, you'd 153 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: get one hundred thousand dollars credit there. But if he 154 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: did do it, one hundred thousand that was likely stays there. 155 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: Now why I say it could be an exception as 156 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: somebody that you might have not counting as likely. So 157 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: let's say that same quarterback did not do twenty touchdown 158 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: passes the year before. What you would do he wouldn't 159 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: count against your cap, and then at the end of 160 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: the year you'd do that democratic process and he would 161 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: count toward next year. You know, you understand what I'm 162 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: saying there with accounting toward next year, I mean it's 163 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: a little bit of a way to lighten your load 164 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: in the first year, but it's going to count in 165 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 1: the second year. And I think the NFL philosophy is 166 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: basically as long as it's counting, I think the league 167 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: office is fine with that, Ven Marino, Isn't it true 168 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: that some of the likely to be earned it gets 169 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: non likely to be earned? Incentives came in the early 170 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: days of the cap, with teams coming up with quote 171 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: unquote incentives that were maybe meant to get around the cap. Yes, 172 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: I think, especially when you had lower numbers, as we 173 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: mentioned before, when you started out, it was potentially a way. 174 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: Now if a player had performed, it was a little 175 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: harder to get around that because if a player had, 176 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: you know, thirty touchdowns, you can't start at one. Two 177 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: has to be more thirty. But there are also team incentives. 178 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: You can tie to win, and perhaps the team wasn't 179 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: as good, so there were there were ways. Some people 180 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: prefer to them as falling off the log type. Yeah, 181 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: because to your Mike got out of bed this morning, 182 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars, Mike went to practice today fifty thousand dollars. 183 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: Because it will surprise some people listening to the OTP 184 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: to learn. Some teams are trying to get around the rules. 185 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: I know it's hard to believe. You never saw any 186 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: of that when you were at the league office, did 187 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: you van? Certainly not from the Titans. Certainly not, good Man. 188 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: I have a question, what is dead money? What does 189 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: that mean? We hear it all the time. Dead money 190 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: refers to cap treatment or cap costs against the club 191 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: when a player was no longer on that club. So, 192 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: for example, if you had guaranteed money, let's say in 193 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: a contract, then you release that player unfortunately, and that 194 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: guarantee stuck with you, that would be considered dead money 195 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: because the player is no longer on your roster. Okay, 196 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: So if a guy retires, what happens to his signing 197 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: bonus money that may not necessarily have already counted against 198 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: the cap. How does all of that work? Sure? So 199 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: the retirement is sort of similar to when you cut 200 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: a player in terms of the signing bonus. So we 201 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: talked about earlier the peroration of the signing bonus. If 202 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: you release a player at a certain time of the year, 203 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: June first is really the trigger date. If you release 204 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: the player before then, then salary excuse me, signing bonus 205 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: from future years is going to come forward and hit 206 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: you immediately. Same thing with a retire player. If the 207 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: player retires before June one and you place them on 208 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: reserve retired, then that signing bonus money is going to 209 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,599 Speaker 1: come forward and count this year the current year, I 210 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: should say, Whereas if if all that happens after June one, 211 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 1: then it will go into next year. So this year 212 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: would stay the same that prooration amount, but any future 213 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: years would go into the next year. So as a club, 214 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: what's the advantage to maybe releasing a player or making 215 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: some of those moves before June one? Do you do 216 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: teams take that into consideration what their books look like. 217 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: I guess sure, because primarily because of where you stand 218 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: on the cap at that particular time. So if you're 219 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: a little bit tighter, or have done things or anticipate 220 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: doing things before June one that will get you tighter, 221 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: you probably would try to stay that and wait until 222 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: after June one, so you don't have additional cap moneys 223 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: coming forward. Whereas if you have the room, you might say, 224 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: I'd rather actually, we're going to do it, let's do 225 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: it now. Have that accelerate forward now, that way the 226 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: books are clear going forward. What is the eighty nine 227 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: percent rule? Then, Marino, The eighty nine percent rule refers 228 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: to how much each club has to spend of the 229 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: overall cap number in a four year period. I think 230 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: there's some misperceptions out there that it goes year to year. 231 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: It is not. It's a four year period. So you 232 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: could dip down under it one year and go back 233 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: over it the next year and make sure the equals 234 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: out over the four year period. And I would say 235 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: we haven't had any problem with that. We've always been 236 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: even on a year to year basis, We've been fine 237 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: with that, and so far all clubs have haven't really 238 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: had too much difficulty with that. So the idea with 239 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: that is to prevent teams from putting the money in 240 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: their pockets. Yeay, some baseball teams have done that, have 241 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: claimed have pleaded poor to the public, and then the 242 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: public has found out that they've been taking instead of 243 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: buying free agents, that've been just pocketing the dough for 244 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: themselves instead of spending it on the ball club. That's 245 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: exactly right. It's so it's to ensure that as certain 246 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: amount is going to be spent by each club. And 247 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: I think to me with the beauty of the four 248 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: year period is it allows you to kind of plan. 249 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: Let's say you were going to have a heavy year 250 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: where you had a lot of players coming up on 251 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: the contract and you were going to spend heavy in 252 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: that year. It doesn't force you each year. It allows 253 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: you to plan. You don't have to spend quite as 254 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: much maybe the year before when you know you're going 255 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 1: to go heavy at it in another year. So it 256 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: gives flexibility to clubs. So what happens to cap money 257 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: that you don't spend then do you pocket it? No? 258 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: Very good question. Actually you kind of that debit credit 259 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: process that we talked about at YARN. If you have 260 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: moneies that you have salary cap room, can you bring 261 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: it over into the next year so that adds to 262 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: your cap? And conversely, if when we talked about the incentives, 263 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: if that puts you quote unquote over the cap, then 264 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: your cap is going to be less the next year. 265 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: So what it amounts to is really, for the most part, 266 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: each club has a different We start with the one 267 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: eighty eight point two this year, but each club has 268 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: a different amount really, whether it's additional or less. So 269 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: to your point, you actually get to carry that over 270 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: and that helps you to plan too. Again, maybe in 271 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: one year you don't have as much cost as you 272 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: as you might think, but then the next year you're 273 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: going to have a quarter back up or something like 274 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: that where you figure you're going to spend heavy, so 275 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: it allows you to kind of move that money over 276 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: to do so. So that's how we get years like 277 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: the Colts this year, who had so much money to spend. 278 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: Or we'll have years where one team it seems like, 279 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: has just endless funds and you can't figure out why. 280 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: It's because they've had some of that budgeting going on, correct, okay, 281 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: and they may have some things that can get you lower. Obviously, 282 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: if you're on a rookie quarterback contract, that certainly helps, 283 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: or maybe you just didn't go heavy and free agency 284 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: in a particular year. If you have a more younger 285 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: team and that allows you to carry over that money 286 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: and get if you do it a few years in 287 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: a row, you might have a pretty good bank roll. 288 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: There's a lot of talk right now about teams and 289 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: how much cap room they have at this moment that 290 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: we record this, but it's misleading right now because you're 291 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: not factoring in the whole equation for twenty nineteen, you 292 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: only have to take the top fifty one salaries. Am 293 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: I saying that right? You are at this point of 294 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: year really kind of when you set your roster, your 295 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: fifty three man roster. You know, later on when the 296 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: preseason comes to an end, that's when it switches to 297 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: every aunt every amount counts. But right now it's the 298 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: top fifty one salaries. What that really basically is is 299 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: the base salary. So anything on top of that, whether 300 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: it's signing bone is or an incentive that counts as 301 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: likely or a roster bonus, those are going to count 302 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: no matter what. But it's the top fifty one salaries 303 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: that count. Anything lower than that won't count at this point. 304 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: I think the rationale is because it would be kind 305 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: of unfair for everybody to count ninety salaries to be 306 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: under the cap when you know that ninety players won't 307 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: be on the roster. Do you do a daily update 308 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: of the Titans salary cap? I do. I mean the 309 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: league runs something each and every night, and they send 310 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: it to the teams, and I make sure that our 311 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: numbers match. If something is off, I figure it out 312 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: one way or the other, and if there's an issue, 313 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: we'll talk to the league. But they're they're very accurate, 314 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: so I haven't had any real issues. But if there's 315 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: something that's counting a little different for them, I might 316 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: call and say here's where I'm counting it has and 317 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: we'll figure out what's right. But yes, we do it. 318 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: We do it every night. It sounds like your job 319 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: is primarily numbers, but what a lot of people might 320 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: not know is you're also out at practice, you travel 321 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: with the team. What are you doing in those moments 322 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: when you're spending time around the actual ball club and 323 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: you're not just sitting with a calculator calculating numbers. Well, 324 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: I'm not evaluating talent, per saying myself certainly, but you know, 325 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: when we travel, I like to be there and in 326 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: case there's injuries, for example, and the same could go 327 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,239 Speaker 1: at practice too, I'd like to be able to get 328 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: a jump start on what our thoughts are on. Unfortunately, 329 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: if it's a more serious injury, might have to replace 330 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: a player and then so we can start on our 331 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: figuring out what am my cost? Because you're not getting 332 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: any kind of type of credit, certainly you're gonna have 333 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: to pay for both players than the player that's injured, 334 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: and of course the newcomers. So I like that. It's 335 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: things like that that I like to get a good 336 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: feel for, and being there, you know, enables me to 337 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: do that. And John Robinson will amble over and talk 338 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: to you in certain instances about those things that are 339 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: going on because of the numbers, and he has a 340 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 1: good understanding of numbers as well. You're very much part 341 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: of the personnel staff, the daily part of what they do. 342 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: That is true. We have to work hand in hand 343 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: because let's say we're interested in extending a player, I 344 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: need to know our thoughts on him as he's evaluated, 345 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: and then I can go into my notes and compare 346 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: him to other players in the league and say, okay, well, 347 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: if if this is how we feel about this particular player, here, 348 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: here's what some other players that we consider of a 349 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: similar talent are making. So we'll probably have to pay 350 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: him something in that neighborhood. And if that's something we're 351 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: comfortable with, you know, we'll go full bore with it. 352 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: If not, then we might have to reevaluate and decide 353 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: what we want to do. Are you able to find 354 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: out the numbers of other contracts. Is that information available 355 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: throughout the teams? Yes, it is, and that when the 356 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: league sends out at night the salary cap numbers. It's 357 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: the league's database has every single contract for every single 358 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: player in the league. And that is very helpful to 359 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: me and others like me at the other clubs because 360 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: we can evaluate that, put our own spin on it, 361 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: and see what we think the true value. Because I 362 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: believe it or not, some of the numbers you're here 363 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: out there aren't always accurate. Well that's shocking, fake news, right, Yeah, 364 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: is what we can do. What I do, then, is 365 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: kind of that's how I get my marketplace for each position, 366 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: looking at each and every one of those contracts. At 367 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: certain times I fall behind, obviously, because like a free 368 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: agency payer for example, they're just they're falling from the trees. 369 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: It seems like so many contracts are signed. But that 370 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: enables us to get our good fix on what the 371 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: marketplace is for each each position. You must really enjoy 372 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: this job. You have such a unique perspective not only 373 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: on teams in personnel in general, but the impact that 374 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: has on the full game. Yeah, I do enjoy it. 375 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: It can be challenging working with agents, certainly, but once 376 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: you get a deal done to me that is perhaps 377 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 1: leaves you a little bit wanting a little more and 378 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: leaves the other side wanting a little bit more. I 379 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: think that's when you have a fair deal. And I 380 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: always want to strive for us to get a fair 381 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: deal because there's no win. It needs to be a 382 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: win win because in the end, if one side feels 383 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: that they're out of place, then that's not good. I 384 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: don't think for anybody. So trying to get something that's 385 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: the right deal for us. We'd love to have back 386 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: every single player. That's good. You know, we obviously want 387 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: to build your team, but you have to have some planning. 388 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: And you always say we can't necessarily sign everybody because 389 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, we have restrictions. But trying to fit all 390 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: those pieces together and figure out the right way to 391 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: do things. I enjoy that. Let me ask you about 392 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: fitting things together. And because you said something really interesting there, 393 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: if a guy doesn't feel good about his deal and 394 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: he comes back to you in a year, that's a 395 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: bad thing for you on the football side and on 396 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: the cap side too. Yeah. Absolutely, Um, that's why you 397 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: want to strive to get something that you feel is 398 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: fair to everyone, there's no win. I don't think unless 399 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: it's both sides feel good enough about the deal. You know, 400 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: sometimes one side may feel a little bit better about 401 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: than the other, and that's fine. But if something is 402 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: completely out of whack one way or the other, you 403 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: know that's you're then you're expecting more from a player 404 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: than he probably is capable of, or you have a 405 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: player there that feels maybe a little bit more disgruntled 406 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: because I'm underpaid working with the parameters of the system, 407 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 1: of course. But yes, so to have a deal that 408 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: everybody is good with really is the best outcome for everyone. 409 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: You're obviously focused on twenty nineteen. How much time do 410 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: you spend on twenty twenty twenty one? How many years 411 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: out do you work on a daily basis? Generally work 412 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say necessarily a daily basis, but two years 413 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: out and somewhat of the third year. I say somewhat 414 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: because if you take a look sometimes it's the third 415 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: year you'll see teams that are well over one hundred 416 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: have a one hundred million dollars worth in the room, 417 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: and that you know that's that's just because they have 418 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: so many few players under contract for that particular year, 419 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: So when when the numbers get like that, I don't 420 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: see as much value. I will look at three years out, 421 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: but primarily I'm going to be looking at obviously this 422 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: year and next year with somewhat of a focus on 423 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: that third year. Because the CBA is up after next year, 424 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: after the twenty twenty season. Does that make it hard 425 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: to play in twenty twenty one and beyond? It does 426 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: make it more challenging. I'm working right now with what 427 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: I think maybe the cap might be, but and then 428 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,479 Speaker 1: the year after that, who knows. You have certain rules 429 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: too that make it very challenging. Certain amount of only 430 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: you can only increase, for example, from what would be 431 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: the cap year, last cap year to the uncapped your 432 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: quote unquote by thirty percent excuse me, by thirty percent 433 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: of the salaries. So that can be very challenging, particularly 434 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: for a club that's up against it in the cap 435 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: next year, because you can't won't be able to do 436 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: some of those deals where you pro rate some money 437 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: to loosen the cap. You don't. You have some restrictions, 438 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: So there are some restrictions, some guarantee restrictions. Makes it challenging. 439 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: So from from the logistical part of that, if we 440 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: can get an extension in the CBA, that's helpful for 441 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: those things. You must have numbers just circling through your 442 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: brain all the time, too often sometimes for you. And 443 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: as that the guy who came out of school goes 444 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: straight to the league is involved with the salary cap 445 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: to see it over twenty five years, is there a 446 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: most surprising part to what has happened with the salary 447 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: cap from your time at the league to now you're 448 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: time with the team, and you've been here over a decade. 449 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: That's right, I've been here. This is thirteenth. I was 450 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: going to say thirteen years. Yeah, I would say, what's 451 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: surprising to me a little bit? Now, maybe it's not 452 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: surprised to hear it coming from me, But some of 453 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: the top end salaries I think have gotten have risen 454 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: further than I would expect it for this point. Some 455 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: of that I think might be unless we get an 456 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,719 Speaker 1: extension that works, some of that might be untenable. So 457 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,239 Speaker 1: my concern now would be that you have you'll have 458 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: your high end guys and the middle class may get 459 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: squeezed out a bit. So where you'll have your high 460 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: end paid guys and then backups that are lower paid, 461 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: and then where's this middle class fit in. So I 462 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: think we need to be careful about that to try 463 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: to make sure that you know, for the product out 464 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: there on the field, that we were able to include 465 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: the middle class. I'm not sure what the answer is 466 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: to that, but I get concerned that they're getting potentially 467 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: or could get potentially squeezed out. When you see some 468 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: of these blockbuster deals, does that triggers anything in your 469 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: brain when you're thinking about the Titans roster and anybody. 470 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about anyone specific, but just does that 471 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: make your brain start turning in relation to how in 472 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: the world are we going to make something like that work? 473 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: Because all of a sudden that becomes the standard for 474 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: players absolutely and every agent will start with the top deals, 475 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: regardless of whether the player we're talking about as a 476 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: top player. So every single deal potentially has a ramification 477 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: on every single club. I think clubs need to keep 478 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: that in mind. I think sometimes we get tunnel vision 479 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: as clubs for what's right for us, but it may 480 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: come back around to hurt us potentially if we don't 481 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: do a good deal, So I do look at that 482 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: and when I think it's a deal that's done that's fair, 483 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: that makes me happy, frankly, because then I feel, you know, 484 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: if we have something similar, we can possibly get something done. 485 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 1: But when is something that's a little out of whack, 486 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: it gives me concern. How much is John Robinson in 487 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: your office or you and his is both? Both ways. 488 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: We discuss it greatly. He has a good understanding and 489 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: appreciation of what we're trying to do in terms of 490 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: salary cap and contracts, and that's really helpful because I 491 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: think he knows that I'm trying to do my best 492 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: to fit everything in too so we can acquire as 493 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: many good players as we can, and he, on the 494 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: other side, understands that we can't have everybody, so he's 495 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: very judicious with how we spend dollars. So it works 496 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: very well having a head coach that's been on the 497 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: player's side and knows what it's like to be a 498 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: guy trying to get paid and you know, do what 499 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: you can do while you're a player. How does that 500 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: impact your ability or willingness to kind of work with 501 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: agents and work with different people. Does Mike Vrabel and 502 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: his experience have an impact on that at all. You know, 503 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: we talk certainly, but I would say sometimes with not 504 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: Mike in particular, but sometimes but guys that have played, 505 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: I think they'll look and they realize what the dollars 506 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: were back when they played, and see how they've grown tremendously, 507 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: and sometimes they might think, jeez, you know, I was 508 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: this kind of player, and some of my colleagues were 509 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,959 Speaker 1: this kind of player. And now players that were, you know, 510 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: our backups, let's say, are making crazy amount of money 511 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: over so I think, you know, sometimes you find coaches 512 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: that will be actually a little harder on trying to 513 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: get contracts done, you know, because they'll say, we shouldn't 514 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: he shouldn't pay that kind of money for him. But 515 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: Mike has been great to work with that that hasn't 516 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: been in my experience with him at all. You have 517 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: an owner who's not afraid to spend money. She has 518 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: proven that in every area and the football side especially, 519 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: And yet you mentioned being judicious with the money, doing 520 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: the right things. That that balance is really the key 521 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: to doing John Robinson's job well and your job well, 522 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: isn't it. Oh that's true? Yeah, And she trust us 523 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: and has shown great confidence in us to pick who 524 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: we think are the right players and pay them the 525 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: way we see you know that they fit in. And 526 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: she's been nothing but supportive and understands, you know, the 527 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: challenges that we have in the job in it and 528 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: again she's involved certainly, but has also allowed us to 529 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: do our jobs, which is awesome. We wanted to hit 530 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: a lot of things on here that we get asked 531 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: at different times and things that we obviously didn't know 532 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: too about the NFL salary cap. If there's one thing 533 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: that you could tell the listeners to the OTP that 534 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: they ought to know about the salary cap when reading 535 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: about it or weighing it as fans and you're a fan, 536 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: you're a sports fan at your heart. What should people know? 537 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: What's the most important thing they should know about the 538 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: salary cap? I'm not sure this is the most important, 539 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: but if you allow me to de volte for a 540 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: second ago with with rookie contracts and there's a missing 541 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: armor out there, I think that everything is slotted. And 542 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: while the overall dollars for the most part are you 543 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: fit in and they are slotted, I wouldn't certainly wouldn't 544 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: deny that, but I think there's a feeling that there's 545 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: nothing else left to negotiate, So why isn't this one 546 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: done or why isn't that one? Well, at different parts, 547 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: in different rounds, there are things to negotiate, whether it's language, 548 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: whether it's a payout schedule. Certain parts of rounds not 549 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: for example, in the second round, not all the contracts 550 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: are fully guaranteed, So where's that end In the first round? 551 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: You've had in the past, offset issues, you've had language, 552 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: Like I said, in the third round, you actually spend 553 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: a little bit more. That one can be the most 554 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: challenging because you end up fourth through seven is typically 555 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: or typically minimum salary contracts, but the third round starts 556 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: where it's a little bit more than minimum salaries as 557 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: we go after the first year. So there's plenty of 558 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: other stuff to negotiate, some of it I think sometimes 559 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: it's drummed up buy agents just to negotiate. But um, 560 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: it's just not slotted per se as as is made 561 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: out to me. It's not automatic, correct, otherwise maybe I'd 562 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: be on the beach right now. What is offset? Language? 563 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,479 Speaker 1: Offset refers to guarantees, as we talked about earlier. Typically 564 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: in a player contract. When you include a guarantee, the 565 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: offset language will say, hey, if he if you release 566 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: him and he hooks on somewhere else, you'll get credit 567 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: for whatever he earns at that at that other spot. 568 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: And by and large, all guarantees, you know, with the 569 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: exception of a few um player contracts, have that offset language. Wow, 570 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: I'll tell a lot. My head is smoking right now. 571 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: Just pen my head spun all the way around. This 572 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: is this is just fascinating. I could talk about this 573 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: all right. The last thing I want to know is 574 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: how many seminars do you and people who do your 575 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: job around the league go to every single year? We 576 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: have we have each year the league puts on a 577 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: labor seminarum. When I was there, I had the good 578 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: fortune of kind of of being on the front end 579 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: of when we started those and presenting. I enjoy being 580 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: on the other end watching the present presenting of it, 581 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: but more so, I should say, but each year we 582 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: go over that and it's kind of the first glimpse 583 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: one of the one of the more important parts of 584 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: that is what the cap might be for the next year, 585 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: because it's typically in December, and they'll give you a range, 586 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: so then you go home and you start plugging in 587 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,239 Speaker 1: these numbers and saying, okay, here, how close do they get? Um, 588 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: they're usually pretty good. They've concerned, they've gotten better over 589 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: the last few years. They were always super conservative and 590 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,719 Speaker 1: now I think they've gotten the Now going to this range, 591 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: it allows them to, I think, be a little more 592 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: flexible and we'll go out a little bit more on 593 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: the limb on the one side. But over the last 594 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: few years, uh, it's been they've been right inside that range. 595 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: So it's been good. You have been here with multiple gms, 596 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: multiple coaches, this being your thirteenth season. What is it 597 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: like to work for the man who used to manage 598 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: the cap for the team, Steve Underwood. He's one of 599 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: the originals. Yeah, you're right, Um, and I always I 600 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: always enjoyed, you know, obviously with thirty two when I 601 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: was on the other end of it. Not every single 602 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: club is your favorite, certainly, but I understand I'm here 603 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: now working with Steve was your favorite, right, one of 604 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: my favorites. So it didn't look like it was sure, 605 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: but he and he always What I liked about Steve 606 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: is he always respected I think the job that I 607 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: had to do there and valued the input and understood 608 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: that I was trying to help help him achieve what 609 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: he wanted to get done. And we always had a 610 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: great relationship there and I think that allowed me to 611 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: come here and work with Steve. And you know, he's 612 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: a great resource too. I try not to bother him 613 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: about anything, but he is a word smith, so anytime 614 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: there's something language wise, I'll knock on his door and say, hey, 615 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, what do you think of this? So it's 616 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,719 Speaker 1: been great. It was great working with him when I 617 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: was at the league and not knowing how it will 618 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: be working day day to day with him until I 619 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: got here. This is just the same. He is the 620 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: vice president of football Administration for the Tennessee Titans in 621 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: his thirteenth year. He helped her write the rules and 622 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: is one of the experts on the salary cap. He 623 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: works for your Tennessee Titans. Ven Marino, thanks for the insight. 624 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: Fascinating to hear all of the stories and what the 625 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: rules are and good stuff. Thanks for being with us. 626 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for a pleasure being for Ven 627 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: Marino and Amy Wells. I'm Mike Keith. Thanks for joining 628 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: us on the O T P