WEBVTT - The Habsburg Jaw: Death of a Dynasty

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<v Speaker 1>When I was a kid, I was obsessed with the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighties ABC primetime soap opera Dynasty. The series centered

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<v Speaker 1>on the wealthy Carrington family of Denver, Colorado, a patriarch

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<v Speaker 1>oil tycoon, and a cast of feuding family members. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>just say that I feel as I do because we

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<v Speaker 1>have so much in common, such as what our blood,

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<v Speaker 1>our teens. But that dynasty, for all its drama and dysfunction,

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<v Speaker 1>had nothing on the real life dynasties we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about today, like the Habsburgs, the family that ruled

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<v Speaker 1>much of Europe for centuries.

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<v Speaker 2>These people are so powerful, I mean power over tens

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<v Speaker 2>of millions of people and gazillions of acres of land.

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<v Speaker 1>This royal family, however, was a little too close. The

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<v Speaker 1>final Habsburg, ruler of Spain, who died in seventeen hundred,

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<v Speaker 1>is considered to be the most inbred royal ever.

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<v Speaker 2>His Habsburg jaw was so pronounced that his two sets

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<v Speaker 2>of teeth couldn't touch at all. He couldn't keep food

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<v Speaker 2>in his mouth.

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<v Speaker 1>In this episode, we're going to look at the practices

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<v Speaker 1>of intermarriage and inbreeding among several major royal families and

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<v Speaker 1>how these practices built and in some cases led to

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<v Speaker 1>the unraveling of their respective empires.

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<v Speaker 2>The strategy for survival and for enhancement of power becomes,

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<v Speaker 2>especially in the Habsburg case, the recipe for its undoing.

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<v Speaker 1>From CBS Sunday Morning and iHeart I'm Moacca and this

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<v Speaker 1>is mobituaries, this moment, the Habsburg jaw and the death

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<v Speaker 1>of a dynasty. Royal families and inbreeding are they kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like peanut butter and jelly.

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<v Speaker 2>There are two great tastes that went great together mo

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<v Speaker 2>for a really long time.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm talking with my friend Caroline Weber. Carries a professor

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<v Speaker 1>of French and comparative literature at Barnard College and a

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<v Speaker 1>best selling author.

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<v Speaker 2>At the moment, I'm working on a book on royalty

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<v Speaker 2>around the world in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the amazing things to underscore is that

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<v Speaker 2>this kind of royal intermarriage really continued for a very

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<v Speaker 2>long time. Even though it led to the end of

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<v Speaker 2>some dynasties, It's persisted among a number of especially European dynasties.

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<v Speaker 2>And the most recent example, I think, in kind of

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<v Speaker 2>contemporary collective memory is the late Queen Elizabeth I and

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<v Speaker 2>Prince Philip who are cousins, Who.

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<v Speaker 1>Were cousins, and how close were their cousins.

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<v Speaker 2>They were third cousins, so not super close by royal standards.

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<v Speaker 2>They shared a common great great grandmother in Queen Victoria.

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<v Speaker 1>Marriage between royal relatives has many precedents. For example, scientists

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<v Speaker 1>believe that the parents of boy King Tutan, common in

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<v Speaker 1>ancient Egypt, were brother and sister. In ancient Rome, Emperor

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<v Speaker 1>Claudius married his niece Agrippina the Younger. But this practice

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<v Speaker 1>became super charged throughout Europe from the Late Middle Ages

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<v Speaker 1>around the year fifteen hundred all the way until the

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<v Speaker 1>outbreak of World War One in nineteen fourteen. Now, before

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<v Speaker 1>we get into it, let's define one word that's central

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<v Speaker 1>to this topic, consanguinity.

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<v Speaker 2>Consanguinity is a word that describes blood relatedness between people

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<v Speaker 2>who marry. If you were a king and you wanted

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<v Speaker 2>your children to be recognized as a king, you would

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<v Speaker 2>want to marry somebody who was perceived also to be

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<v Speaker 2>of royal blood, and that royal blood often meant that

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<v Speaker 2>they were in some way, shape or form related to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, So consanguinity inter marriage equaled stability.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it did. It represented a few things. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>on the one hand, consanguinity did mean concentrating family resources

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<v Speaker 2>and territories and keeping them as it were in the family.

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<v Speaker 2>So that was a big part of consanguinous marriages, this

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<v Speaker 2>idea that you weren't going to let hard won territories

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<v Speaker 2>in your kingdom potentially pass into the hands of a

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<v Speaker 2>rival king somewhere else. But the disadvantage, politically speaking, was

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<v Speaker 2>that consanguinity meant that you missed an opportunity to form

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<v Speaker 2>an alliance with a rival king who was not already

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<v Speaker 2>related to you.

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<v Speaker 1>So for a good stretch of history, the incentives to

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<v Speaker 1>intermarry were greater than the disincentives.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, especially because the disincentives weren't very well known. I

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<v Speaker 2>think just the idea of genetics as an actual science

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<v Speaker 2>that didn't even start to come into being really until

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteenth century. So for hundreds of years when you intermarried,

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<v Speaker 2>the big incentive was this purity of your bloodline and

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<v Speaker 2>this kind of reinforced intrafamilial connection, which became more and

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<v Speaker 2>more meaningful as your family expanded its territory more and more.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is why the Hobsburgs are such a good

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<v Speaker 2>example or bad example of inbreeding.

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<v Speaker 1>Who were the Hobsburgs.

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<v Speaker 2>So the Hobsburgs were a royal family who traced their

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<v Speaker 2>origins to the early Middle Ages in Central and Eastern

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<v Speaker 2>Europe what we would call today Austria and Hungary.

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<v Speaker 1>The Habsburgs held some of their power through their relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with what was known as the Holy Roman Empire, a

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<v Speaker 1>vast Christian political entity in Europe modeled on the original

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<v Speaker 1>Roman Empire.

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<v Speaker 2>Since Charlemagne in the ninth century, Europe had had an

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<v Speaker 2>elected Holy Roman Emperor who was the defender of the

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<v Speaker 2>faith for all Catholics, but essentially the Habsburgs kept becoming

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<v Speaker 2>Holy Roman Emperor.

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<v Speaker 1>Enter Maximilian the First. He was a Habsburg and put

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<v Speaker 1>the family on the map quite literally with his election

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<v Speaker 1>as Holy Roman Emperor and by his marriage to Mary

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<v Speaker 1>of Burgundy.

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<v Speaker 2>Marie of Burgundy basically through her father had inherited much

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<v Speaker 2>of Burgundy in France, but also the Netherlands and some

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<v Speaker 2>territories kind of stretching into what we would today consider

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<v Speaker 2>to be Belgium. And when she married a member of

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<v Speaker 2>the Habsburg royal family, the Austrian Habsburgs then sort of

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<v Speaker 2>took over that whole swath of land as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Maximilian the First and Mary of Burgundy, who were not

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<v Speaker 1>closely related, had one surviving son. This son would expand

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<v Speaker 1>the Habsburg's influence even further than his father did.

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<v Speaker 2>This guy's son was known as Philip the Handsome Philippe

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<v Speaker 2>Leubel we called him in French. Philippe Leubel then crucially

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<v Speaker 2>married the last offshoot of a Spanish royal family known

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<v Speaker 2>as aragon and Castile. So most Americans have heard of

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<v Speaker 2>Ferdinand and Isabella. They sponsored Christopher Columbus's trip to the

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<v Speaker 2>New World. They had a daughter known as Juana the

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<v Speaker 2>Crazy Juana la Looca, and so some of the I

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<v Speaker 2>think the lunacy that the Habsburg's later evinced was actually

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<v Speaker 2>inherited from this woman, who was born a Castilian an

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<v Speaker 2>Aragonese princess. But she married a son of this Habsburg

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<v Speaker 2>Roman Emperor, Holy Roman Emperor called Philippe Leubel.

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<v Speaker 1>To recap Philip the Handsome, the only surviving son of

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<v Speaker 1>the Habsburg Emperor, marries Juana the Crazy, the heir to

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<v Speaker 1>the Spanish throne. This meant their descent and so would

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<v Speaker 1>inherit both the Habsburg and Spanish territories, and Guana la

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<v Speaker 1>Loca would be an amazing telenovellah I Love Betty leafea

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<v Speaker 1>which became Ugly Betty in the United States. It was

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<v Speaker 1>originally a Colombian telenovela. And yeah, and one on La

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<v Speaker 1>Loca would be amazing. It's just a great title already.

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<v Speaker 2>And she, by most accounts, really was insane.

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<v Speaker 1>But Juana and Philip's son had some sense. He ruled

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<v Speaker 1>as Charles the First of Spain and Charles the Fifth

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<v Speaker 1>of the Holy Roman Empire.

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<v Speaker 2>When Charles came of age, he made the very smart

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<v Speaker 2>decision that he wasn't going to try to be in

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<v Speaker 2>control of both Austria, Central Europe, Northern Europe and also Spain.

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<v Speaker 2>So he essentially split the Habsburgs into two branches, and

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<v Speaker 2>he founded the dynasty of Spanish Habsburgs as separate from

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<v Speaker 2>his Austrian Habsburg cousins.

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<v Speaker 1>The likeness of Charles quint as he's known has been

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<v Speaker 1>to pay did by a number of painters. They all

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<v Speaker 1>show him with a distinctive mandible.

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<v Speaker 2>So he did have what became known as the as

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<v Speaker 2>the Habsburg jaw, this very protuberant lower jaw, that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of jutted out. If you see there's a famous painting

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<v Speaker 2>of him by Titian where you can kind of see

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<v Speaker 2>he's got very sickly looking skin. He suffered from gout.

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<v Speaker 2>He may have suffered from epilepsy, which became a kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a hereditary habsburg condition. But the main thing is

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<v Speaker 2>the jaw, and the jaw kind of was often associated

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<v Speaker 2>with something that modern scientists call maxillary deficiency, where the

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<v Speaker 2>upper jaw kind of was sunken in. And the Titian

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<v Speaker 2>portrait of Charles Quint really shows a head that almost

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<v Speaker 2>looks like a cashew. It's kind of collapsed in the center,

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<v Speaker 2>with a bulbous forehead up top, and then this really

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<v Speaker 2>outwardly jutting jaw and underbite at the bottom.

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<v Speaker 1>An Italian writer named Antonio de Biats, who met Charles Quint,

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<v Speaker 1>wrote in fifteen seventeen that he had a long, avarice

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<v Speaker 1>face and a lopsided mouth which drops open when he

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<v Speaker 1>is not on his guard. So this King Charles wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>exactly Prince Charming, but his decision to divide the dynasty

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<v Speaker 1>between Spain and Austria would guarantee that his descendants would

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<v Speaker 1>be even less portrait Jenic.

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<v Speaker 2>His parents were not that closely interrelated. Charles quint was

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<v Speaker 2>not really the product of significant inbreeding, but because it

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<v Speaker 2>was his decision essentially to try to split the Habsburg

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<v Speaker 2>family into two branches of a royal family that together

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<v Speaker 2>ruled so much of Europe. His son became the Spanish

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<v Speaker 2>Habsburg King, who was really just in charge of Spain

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<v Speaker 2>and the Holy Roman Empire, and his younger brother, Charles

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<v Speaker 2>Quint's younger brother, Ferdinand I, became the head of the

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<v Speaker 2>Austrian branch of the family and ruling over Austria and

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<v Speaker 2>its associated territories. He really instituted, I think the policy

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<v Speaker 2>of significant innermarriage tween and among so what you then

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<v Speaker 2>have after Charles Quint is generations of Spanish Habsburg's marrying

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<v Speaker 2>Austrian habsburg to keep it, keep it all together.

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<v Speaker 1>Keep it all together. Yeah, by splitting the empire, he

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<v Speaker 1>actually encouraged incentivized intermarriage.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, and that's why I think you find so

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<v Speaker 2>much more intermarriage in the Habsburg family than in other

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<v Speaker 2>European royal families.

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<v Speaker 1>So much so that a Latin motto was coined in

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<v Speaker 1>connection with the Habsburgs.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no evidence that they invented it themselves, but it

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<v Speaker 2>became one that was cited every time you saw news

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<v Speaker 2>of yet another Habsburg marriage. It would say, let other

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<v Speaker 2>nations wage war, You happy Austria conquer through marriage. Jamie

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<v Speaker 2>and I are more than brother and sister.

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<v Speaker 1>We shed a wound, came into this world together, we

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<v Speaker 1>belonged together. Contrary to what the Game of Thrones extended

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<v Speaker 1>universe might have you believe, Incest wasn't a personal preference

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<v Speaker 1>as much as it was a political strategy.

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<v Speaker 2>Because he really was trying to manage an empire that

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<v Speaker 2>was so vast. People forget that actually Mexico was part

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<v Speaker 2>of Charles Quint's empire. I mean, he claimed Mexico in

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<v Speaker 2>that obviously dubious and problematic colonialius way. He claimed the Philippines,

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<v Speaker 2>and so his empire really covered so much of the

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<v Speaker 2>globe that it didn't make sense for all of that

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<v Speaker 2>to be concentrated into one branch of one family. And

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<v Speaker 2>so by creating this kind of separate but equal branch

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<v Speaker 2>of the Austrian Habsburgs, he had a kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>constant pool of intermarriage where none of these territories would

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<v Speaker 2>go outside of the family.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, they had so much power, and they were trying

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<v Speaker 1>to maintain that power.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there any family today that's the equivalent God the Kardashians.

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to say, are they as powerful as

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<v Speaker 1>the Kardashians.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's hard to tell, because, yeah, their brand

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't as beloved apparently as the Kardashians. But yeah, in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of ubiquity and everywhere you look, there they are.

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<v Speaker 2>There is a kind of a Kardashian effect that you see,

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<v Speaker 2>we haven't yet lived long enough and the Kardashians haven't

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<v Speaker 2>lived long enough for us to see what happens with

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<v Speaker 2>the children of Kim and Chloe and Courtney.

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<v Speaker 1>Well they do.

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<v Speaker 2>They have their own TV shows, those kids.

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<v Speaker 1>They will by the time this airs, and they have

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<v Speaker 1>delightful charles. They look great.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh right, yeah, well I do feel like that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>the Kardashians have done a much better job of kind

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<v Speaker 2>of diversification in.

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<v Speaker 1>Marriage, and that's why the Kardashian dynasty will last even

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<v Speaker 1>centuries longer than the Hopspurs.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now, I want you guys to be able to

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<v Speaker 2>do this. Tell you're my age and one of your

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<v Speaker 2>kids takes over, that's a whole that's the Joy.

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<v Speaker 1>Charles quint had a son who became Philip the Second

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<v Speaker 1>of Spain, who had a son called Philip the Third,

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<v Speaker 1>who had a son called Philip the.

0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Fourth, and they all interestingly and importantly married Austrian either

0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.720
<v Speaker 2>nieces or cousins.

0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.360
<v Speaker 1>And as the consanguinity picks up in pace, so do

0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:57.720
<v Speaker 1>its consequences.

0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Because the hobsburg is what you really see is just

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.280
<v Speaker 2>generation after generation, the problems that we now either know

0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:10.600
<v Speaker 2>or suspect were genetically transmitted just get more and more pronounced.

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Philip the Fourth and his niece slash wife had one

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.559
<v Speaker 1>surviving son, who would be known as Charles the Second

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:23.160
<v Speaker 1>or Charles the Bewitched due to his many infirmities.

0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, Charles the Second is important because he really represents

0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:32.560
<v Speaker 2>the worst of what can happen with these successive consanguineous

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.720
<v Speaker 2>marriages from one generation to the next. His habsburg jaw

0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.680
<v Speaker 2>was so pronounced that his two sets of teeth couldn't

0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.480
<v Speaker 2>touch at all, he couldn't keep food in his mouth.

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.520
<v Speaker 2>He never really mentally developed beyond the age of about

0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:48.160
<v Speaker 2>ten years old.

0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Charles was unable to speak until the age of four,

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.960
<v Speaker 1>and he couldn't walk until the age of eight. He

0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.440
<v Speaker 1>looked elderly when he was only thirty years old, suffering

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 1>from edemas on his feet, legs, abdomen, and face in

0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>his teeth not meeting his inability to chew. And this

0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 1>is centuries before protein shakes. Like, there's right, I mean

0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.960
<v Speaker 1>the thunder straw has been invented probably at that point.

0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how did he eat not well? And it wasn't pretty.

0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.320
<v Speaker 2>This is one of the fun things about studying royalty

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.040
<v Speaker 2>is if you're in a Storian like me and you're

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.880
<v Speaker 2>trying to read contemporary accounts, nobody wants ever to say

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:31.120
<v Speaker 2>anything bad about the king, so you get a lot

0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:35.560
<v Speaker 2>of euphemisms like his majesty did not eat well tonight,

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:37.480
<v Speaker 2>and you think, okay, does that mean that he could

0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.520
<v Speaker 2>barely get the food in or was it just a

0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.320
<v Speaker 2>disgusting spectacle? And these euphemisms you can never say definitively

0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.480
<v Speaker 2>what they mean, but you suspect that they hide a

0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:47.080
<v Speaker 2>thousand embarrassments.

0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Genetic analysis has determined that in the average Spanish Habsburg,

0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:56.720
<v Speaker 1>about ten percent of maternal and paternal genes were identical,

0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.560
<v Speaker 1>which means they were more closely inbread than the child

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 1>of two first cousins. By the time Charles the Bewitched

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.640
<v Speaker 1>was born, the problem was even worse.

0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 2>One of the takeaways from one of these scientific reports

0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 2>was that even though Charles the Second's parents were quote

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:21.680
<v Speaker 2>primarily or only uncle and niece, they were so closely

0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 2>related already by the previous generations of inbreeding that they

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.040
<v Speaker 2>were as closely related as brother and sister. So Charles

0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.520
<v Speaker 2>the Second really was the product of so much inbreeding

0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.040
<v Speaker 2>that essentially it was like his parents were siblings.

0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:37.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness. They tried to marry him off.

0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.840
<v Speaker 2>They tried to marry Charles the Second off, and it

0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.920
<v Speaker 2>did not go well because generally, one of the functions

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 2>of slightly idealized royal portraiture was that you could send

0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.560
<v Speaker 2>the equivalent of a photo to a foreign court and

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.840
<v Speaker 2>say this is who you'll be marrying. And there are

0:16:54.960 --> 0:17:00.000
<v Speaker 2>countless stories throughout European history, at least, of massive dissipate

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.400
<v Speaker 2>ointments and temper tantrums when the person actually shows up.

0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:05.840
<v Speaker 1>Some things never changed, some things never changed.

0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now, I mean, I guess it's like what does

0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:09.639
<v Speaker 2>your Tinder photo look like? And how much have you

0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:11.920
<v Speaker 2>tinkered with it? But in the case of Charles the

0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:16.000
<v Speaker 2>second whatever miniature portrait of him was sent to the

0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.680
<v Speaker 2>court of France where he got his first bride, did

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.920
<v Speaker 2>not reveal the full effect. So his first wife, Marie

0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:23.640
<v Speaker 2>Luise of.

0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Orleans, she swiped right.

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.040
<v Speaker 2>She swiped right, or her parents swiped right for her.

0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.439
<v Speaker 2>When she got to Madrid and saw who her husband was,

0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 2>apparently she had a nervous breakdown. Of course it had

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.560
<v Speaker 2>to be restrained, and like dragged up to the altar screaming, and.

0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.840
<v Speaker 1>Did anyone say to her, honey, but his personality haha?

0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, sadly, because he couldn't really talk, we don't know

0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.320
<v Speaker 2>what his personality was. He didn't even have that going for.

0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.720
<v Speaker 2>He couldn't even cultivate the personality ride. He couldn't make

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:49.600
<v Speaker 2>himself understood.

0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm suddenly reminded of Paul Rubens's bravura performance in the

0:17:55.280 --> 0:18:01.720
<v Speaker 1>sitcom Thirty Rock as the genetically compromised European Prince Gerhart Habsburg.

0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:06.840
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, all, dear friends, fuck on it to my

0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:07.640
<v Speaker 3>bad day.

0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:13.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. Yeah, would

0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.560
<v Speaker 1>he like to dance? Sadly, because my body does not

0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:22.000
<v Speaker 1>produce joint fluid, I cannot but I would enjoy watching

0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:27.200
<v Speaker 1>you dance moonbi Um, that depiction may not have been

0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.639
<v Speaker 1>so far off from reality. During the last years of

0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:34.800
<v Speaker 1>his life, Charles could barely stand up and suffered from

0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:40.960
<v Speaker 1>hallucinations and convulsive episodes. Charles the Bewitched died in seventeen

0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.879
<v Speaker 1>hundred at the age of thirty eight. According to his autopsy,

0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.679
<v Speaker 1>his corpse did not contain a single drop of blood.

0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:53.080
<v Speaker 1>His heart was the size of a peppercorn, his lungs corroded,

0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:57.440
<v Speaker 1>his intestines rotten and gangrenous, He had a single testicle

0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.600
<v Speaker 1>black as coal, and his head was water.

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.200
<v Speaker 2>So he really became a poster child for what can

0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.040
<v Speaker 2>go wrong with interbreeding, and the line died with him

0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.879
<v Speaker 2>because he couldn't conceive a child by either one of

0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:09.760
<v Speaker 2>his wives.

0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.600
<v Speaker 1>And that has real repercussions. Yes, yeah, I.

0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:18.240
<v Speaker 2>Mean it basically threw the Spanish monarchy into a succession crisis,

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, and a war, the War of that's known

0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:26.560
<v Speaker 2>as the War of Spanish Succession. There were claimants from

0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.679
<v Speaker 2>the Austrian side who said, well, we're Hafsburgs too, and

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.119
<v Speaker 2>then you had the French who had a claim on

0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:34.000
<v Speaker 2>the throne of Spain.

0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.360
<v Speaker 1>The war of Spanish succession began in seventeen oh one

0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.920
<v Speaker 1>and went on for more than a decade, claiming more

0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.040
<v Speaker 1>than four hundred thousand lives in combat.

0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.880
<v Speaker 2>It was almost a generation of young people just grew

0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.080
<v Speaker 2>up with this war where it was unclear where the

0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:53.639
<v Speaker 2>throne was going to land, and so in terms of

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:58.240
<v Speaker 2>drawbacks to consanguineous marriage and the genetic effects of that,

0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.119
<v Speaker 2>this is another one. Right, the dynasty, which has drawn

0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.400
<v Speaker 2>its legitimacy from a bloodline, dies out.

0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.920
<v Speaker 1>But while the Spanish Habsburg line died out with Charles

0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.800
<v Speaker 1>the Bewitched in seventeen hundred, the Austrian branch of the

0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:19.359
<v Speaker 1>Habsburgs kept going. After a short break. We'll meet one

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:24.160
<v Speaker 1>Austrian Habsburg who could make this unsightly jaw look chic.

0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Marie Antoinette was a Habsburg. Can we go to Marintoinette?

0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:38.400
<v Speaker 3>Notte? When I went to the Queen the pot take

0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.719
<v Speaker 3>no bread for you know what? We fred let them

0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:43.240
<v Speaker 3>eat cake.

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.520
<v Speaker 1>That's such nonsense. I would never say that. Marie Antoinette,

0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:52.440
<v Speaker 1>portrayed here by Kirsten Dunst in Sophia Coppola's twenty oh

0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:56.600
<v Speaker 1>six film, is probably the most famous Habsburg in history,

0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.399
<v Speaker 1>a product of the Austrian branch of the family. In

0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.760
<v Speaker 1>seventeen seventy, she was married off to the air to

0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:08.320
<v Speaker 1>the French throne, the future King Louis the sixteenth.

0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 2>And he had significant Habsburg blood himself, because both Louis

0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.679
<v Speaker 2>the fourteenth and Louis the thirteenth had been married to

0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Habsburg first cousins of theirs.

0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm back with author and professor Caroline Webber.

0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.320
<v Speaker 2>So both she and her husband had this Habsburg blood line.

0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.879
<v Speaker 2>But she was the one who really visibly had something

0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.640
<v Speaker 2>of a Habsburg underbite, a kind of protuberant lower jaw

0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.280
<v Speaker 2>that I think people who didn't like her took to

0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.520
<v Speaker 2>be some kind of equivalent of resting bitch face. You

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.960
<v Speaker 2>know that she always had this kind of haughty set

0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.120
<v Speaker 2>to her face because she also had a pendulous lower lip,

0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:43.960
<v Speaker 2>which was associated with the Habsburg jaw.

0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:45.400
<v Speaker 1>It was the pendulous lower lip.

0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:47.760
<v Speaker 2>The pendulous lower lip was basically just a lip that

0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.960
<v Speaker 2>would kind of hang low over the protuberant chin, and

0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:57.120
<v Speaker 2>she had something of that according to contemporary reports. By

0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.719
<v Speaker 2>most accounts, Marie Antoinette's version of these trees was not

0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:07.240
<v Speaker 2>crazily exacerbated. Her mother an Austrian princess and empress had

0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:09.800
<v Speaker 2>married a little bit outside of the bloodline into the

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.280
<v Speaker 2>ducal House of Lorraine, and so Marie Antoinette got a

0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.919
<v Speaker 2>little bit of variety in the bloodline there. When she

0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.680
<v Speaker 2>came to France as an almost fifteen year old girl

0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:22.200
<v Speaker 2>in seventeen seventy, it had been a long time since

0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:27.399
<v Speaker 2>the French people had seen kind of a fresh faced, young, pretty,

0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.280
<v Speaker 2>fun loving teenage girl who was heir to the whole

0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:34.120
<v Speaker 2>thing by dint of being married to the future king.

0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 2>And she became one of the first fashion celebrities in

0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:41.680
<v Speaker 2>eighteenth century Europe, realiant in the history of all of Europe,

0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.720
<v Speaker 2>and she was the first European royal whose likeness was

0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.520
<v Speaker 2>reproduced in kind of a primitive early version of fashion magazines,

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:53.160
<v Speaker 2>which were these fashion illustrations. Those were generally quite idealizing

0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:56.280
<v Speaker 2>when they depicted her face. It didn't have a super

0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:59.320
<v Speaker 2>pronounced Hapsburg jaw. You'd maybe see a little hint of it,

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.480
<v Speaker 2>and people who admired her and thought she was elegant

0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:04.640
<v Speaker 2>and liked the kind of crazy new way she liked

0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:07.320
<v Speaker 2>to dress wanted to look like her, So you might

0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.040
<v Speaker 2>see people kind of doing a poudy lip to try

0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.480
<v Speaker 2>to vaguely affect. Yeah, but they didn't have plastic surgery

0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.920
<v Speaker 2>back then, so there was no surgical method for making

0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:21.240
<v Speaker 2>your lower lip puff out a little bit. There is

0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.240
<v Speaker 2>a really funny story, for instance, of Marie Antoinette loved

0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:27.159
<v Speaker 2>experimental hairstyles, and we all know the kind of the

0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:29.199
<v Speaker 2>fashion plates and the portraits of her with like the

0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:33.480
<v Speaker 2>three foot high beehive headdress sometimes that had like a

0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:37.160
<v Speaker 2>fully rigged sailing ship ensconced in the in the coils

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:37.640
<v Speaker 2>of her hair.

0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:43.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wrote a book about this year's ago, but

0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:45.800
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned it just to say anybody who wants to

0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:48.359
<v Speaker 2>see the pictures I did reproduce as many as I

0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:50.399
<v Speaker 2>could in Queen of Fashion. But one thing that that

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:52.720
<v Speaker 2>I thought was so funny and really captures this kind

0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:59.320
<v Speaker 2>of contemporary aspirational celebrity culture that could have some relationship

0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:02.120
<v Speaker 2>to like the card today where the King and Queen

0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:04.600
<v Speaker 2>are the ones who everybody knows about, who have all

0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:06.880
<v Speaker 2>the money, who have all the power, who are everywhere

0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:10.840
<v Speaker 2>all the time, and this invitation frenzy Marie Antoinette with

0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 2>these crazy hairstyles apparently spawned tens of thousands of copycats,

0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:18.879
<v Speaker 2>both in the upper classes where they could really afford

0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:21.119
<v Speaker 2>to have somebody spend six hours on their hair teasing

0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:24.320
<v Speaker 2>it into a cathedral shape, or little working girls in

0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:26.119
<v Speaker 2>Paris who would just try to do what they could with,

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:29.560
<v Speaker 2>like teasing in a comb. But one woman famously at court,

0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:32.280
<v Speaker 2>some kind of rich woman saw Marie Antoinette in a

0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:35.639
<v Speaker 2>headdress that, instead of having flowers and pearls and ribbons,

0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:37.320
<v Speaker 2>like the sort of standard way would have been at

0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Bearsies at that time, Marie Antoinette had a cabbage and

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:43.320
<v Speaker 2>some carrots and like maybe a cucumber some other vegetables

0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:45.679
<v Speaker 2>in it, and was called her pouf a lajardigne, a

0:24:45.760 --> 0:24:50.000
<v Speaker 2>gardener's poof. And this woman said, never again, where will

0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I wear anything but vegetables in my hair? It looked

0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:55.200
<v Speaker 2>so beautiful, your majesty, And this idea was people were

0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:57.359
<v Speaker 2>desperate to look like the queen. So I think even

0:24:57.400 --> 0:24:59.399
<v Speaker 2>if she had a bit of a Habsburg jaw and

0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:02.320
<v Speaker 2>a bit of a Habsburg pendulous lip, she did become

0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:04.600
<v Speaker 2>this kind of fashion icon who people wanted to resemble.

0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:06.080
<v Speaker 1>And what do you think she saw when she looked

0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:06.600
<v Speaker 1>in the mirror.

0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:09.760
<v Speaker 2>That's a great question, and you know Versailles was not

0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:12.000
<v Speaker 2>lacking in mirrors. Well, you know, the royal family had

0:25:12.040 --> 0:25:14.240
<v Speaker 2>to walk through that huge hall of mirrors every day

0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:16.560
<v Speaker 2>on their way to lunch. So she I don't know.

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, she did complain that she felt like most

0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:23.560
<v Speaker 2>portraits painted of her didn't capture her her essence, But

0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:27.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if that's because the paintings were too

0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:31.040
<v Speaker 2>idealized or not idealized enough. You know, we really don't know.

0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:33.080
<v Speaker 2>And because she was such a controversial figure, you know,

0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:36.560
<v Speaker 2>France and Austria hadn't been allies for a really long

0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:38.800
<v Speaker 2>time in European history, and so when she came and

0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:41.200
<v Speaker 2>married the future Louis the sixteenth, there were a number

0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:43.840
<v Speaker 2>of people at court who were just opposed to her

0:25:43.880 --> 0:25:47.040
<v Speaker 2>presence there because she represented an alliance with Austria. So

0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:48.840
<v Speaker 2>they would be the ones who would maybe go a

0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:51.280
<v Speaker 2>little bit farther in talking about how ugly she was

0:25:51.640 --> 0:25:54.359
<v Speaker 2>with this habsburg jaw, and the people who were partisans

0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:56.840
<v Speaker 2>of her and the alliance she represented would talk about

0:25:56.840 --> 0:25:59.080
<v Speaker 2>how beautiful she was with all that in her hair,

0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:01.480
<v Speaker 2>with all that rough dinner hair. Kept her young. I mean,

0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:03.600
<v Speaker 2>she died at thirty seven. But who's to say how

0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:05.440
<v Speaker 2>long she would have survived otherwise?

0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:08.520
<v Speaker 1>Right head of Lettuce And then there's something there. Okay, no,

0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 1>but you know, boy, that confidence she shows up in France.

0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:14.640
<v Speaker 1>She's Austrian and she's like, this is how I'm gonna dress,

0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:15.240
<v Speaker 1>wear my hair.

0:26:15.440 --> 0:26:18.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that she actually sort of not only presumed

0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:21.399
<v Speaker 2>to dictate fashion to the French, but she kind of

0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:25.960
<v Speaker 2>pioneered the concept of the French being the ones who

0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:28.399
<v Speaker 2>were the people to beat when it came to fashion.

0:26:28.440 --> 0:26:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Is that where we get it from here? Yeah?

0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:32.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean from her and from her and her husband's

0:26:32.119 --> 0:26:35.320
<v Speaker 2>shared ancestor, Louis the fourteenth, He really kind of invented

0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:39.480
<v Speaker 2>peacocking and power dressing for men, you know, the high heels,

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:43.119
<v Speaker 2>the red souls, the kind of early Christian lubautint, the

0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:45.520
<v Speaker 2>big wigs and the big hair and the ribbons and

0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:48.240
<v Speaker 2>the lace. And Louis the fourteenth became a walking billboard

0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:52.159
<v Speaker 2>for the French luxury industries, and he understood that France,

0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:54.919
<v Speaker 2>in order to kind of fill its coffers, needed to

0:26:54.920 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 2>have these these luxury exports that it could do better

0:26:57.600 --> 0:26:59.880
<v Speaker 2>than anyone else, like lace, like silk. But he really

0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:03.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of took the fashion plate concept to an extreme

0:27:03.440 --> 0:27:05.800
<v Speaker 2>in terms of how kings could power dress and show

0:27:05.840 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 2>you just how much money they had. But he wasn't

0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:10.320
<v Speaker 2>interested in trends per se. Marie Antoinette when she came

0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.199
<v Speaker 2>to France in seventeen seventy, Paris was just starting to

0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:15.760
<v Speaker 2>become a place where what we now know is fast

0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:19.359
<v Speaker 2>fashion was coming into being, where there was a whole

0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:22.520
<v Speaker 2>sub industry of women who weren't allowed by guild law

0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:25.120
<v Speaker 2>to make dresses or make hats, but they could make

0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:26.920
<v Speaker 2>the trimmings that you put on dresses and the trimmings

0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:29.000
<v Speaker 2>you put on hats, and those became the trends that

0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:32.480
<v Speaker 2>you could wear and kind of change every day to

0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:34.760
<v Speaker 2>change your look all the time. And Marie Antoinette really

0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:40.440
<v Speaker 2>became the royal god parent of that phenomenon and spawned

0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:42.639
<v Speaker 2>the French fashion industry as we still know it today.

0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:48.520
<v Speaker 1>The queen eventually fell out of fashion with her French subjects.

0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:51.760
<v Speaker 1>Here she is portrayed in nineteen thirty eight by film

0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:53.320
<v Speaker 1>actress Norma Shearer.

0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:58.800
<v Speaker 3>People threw stones at the carriage. They threw stones and

0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:07.200
<v Speaker 3>shall have ill sums. I'm trembling still. Those pale faces

0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:10.680
<v Speaker 3>full of hatreds shouting what's being shouted all over front

0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:13.399
<v Speaker 3>for an Austrian leech.

0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:17.880
<v Speaker 1>I suppose you can only speculate, But do you think

0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:21.960
<v Speaker 1>that when she looked in the mirror that the hair,

0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:28.320
<v Speaker 1>the clothes, everything around it was I don't know. I

0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:30.000
<v Speaker 1>don't want to say a way of compensating for the

0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:33.720
<v Speaker 1>jah on the lip, but a way of like anyone

0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:35.520
<v Speaker 1>would like I would if I looked and I saw

0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:38.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't like that about me. Yeah, I'll do this

0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:39.600
<v Speaker 1>to balance it out, to draw attention.

0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:43.200
<v Speaker 2>Indeed, if you wear a three foot high headdress on

0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:46.040
<v Speaker 2>your head, you are going to kind of direct the

0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:50.800
<v Speaker 2>eye away from your pendulous lower lip and you're extruding

0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:54.200
<v Speaker 2>habsbrug jaw. And it would explain why she gravitated toward

0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:56.920
<v Speaker 2>that trend. Of all possible trends, I mean, there are

0:28:56.920 --> 0:28:58.800
<v Speaker 2>all kinds of crazy things that she could do in

0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:02.400
<v Speaker 2>the name of fashion, but to choose specifically as your

0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:07.880
<v Speaker 2>signature hairstyle, this gigantic, bulbous, three foot high construction, you

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:09.960
<v Speaker 2>do think that that must have really softened the chin.

0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:13.880
<v Speaker 1>In the end, of course, Marie Antoinette took it on

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:17.480
<v Speaker 1>the chin and much more when she and her husband

0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:21.040
<v Speaker 1>were beheaded On the other side of the break. Did

0:29:21.240 --> 0:29:25.960
<v Speaker 1>centuries of royal inbreeding lead to World War One? The

0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:30.600
<v Speaker 1>downfall of more defective and despotic dynasties coming up next?

0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:43.880
<v Speaker 1>Europeans throughout these centuries, did they not imagine another way

0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:47.080
<v Speaker 1>of doing things other than dynastic rule?

0:29:47.600 --> 0:29:50.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think so much of the symbolic strength

0:29:50.440 --> 0:29:53.640
<v Speaker 2>of monarchy in Europe from the Middle Ages too, maybe

0:29:53.680 --> 0:29:55.600
<v Speaker 2>even to today, but certainly from the Middle Ages until

0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:59.920
<v Speaker 2>World War One rested on this mythology that the older

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.120
<v Speaker 2>and the purer your bloodline, the better.

0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:06.120
<v Speaker 1>But as early as the nineteenth century, questions were being

0:30:06.200 --> 0:30:10.280
<v Speaker 1>raised about the wisdom of royal relatives marrying each other.

0:30:10.720 --> 0:30:16.240
<v Speaker 1>In eighteen seventy, Charles Darwin wrote that consanguineous marriages lead

0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:21.360
<v Speaker 1>to deafness, and dumbness and blindness. Darwin, for what it's worth,

0:30:21.600 --> 0:30:25.240
<v Speaker 1>married and had ten children with his first cousin, Emma Wedgwood.

0:30:26.080 --> 0:30:30.080
<v Speaker 1>In the US, concerns over so called cousin marriage were

0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:34.200
<v Speaker 1>growing rapidly. At the ninth Annual meeting of the American

0:30:34.240 --> 0:30:38.160
<v Speaker 1>Association for the Advancement of Science in eighteen fifty five,

0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:43.960
<v Speaker 1>a Boston clergyman named Charles Brooks delivered a fiery lecture

0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:49.800
<v Speaker 1>warning against the health consequences of consanguineous reproduction, and by

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:52.440
<v Speaker 1>the end of the nineteenth century, more than a dozen

0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:55.880
<v Speaker 1>states had passed laws banning such marriages.

0:30:56.720 --> 0:31:00.200
<v Speaker 2>And nowadays people are envisioning another way the crown, so

0:31:00.240 --> 0:31:01.920
<v Speaker 2>that the heir to the throne of England now is

0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:05.920
<v Speaker 2>married to a woman with no obvious or known royal blood.

0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:09.600
<v Speaker 2>So royals today, I think, do understand that there are

0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:12.080
<v Speaker 2>some advantages beyond just getting to marry a person you love,

0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:14.080
<v Speaker 2>to marrying outside of the gene pool.

0:31:14.680 --> 0:31:18.880
<v Speaker 1>The tradition of European royals marrying each other also meant

0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:22.520
<v Speaker 1>that a disorder carried by one royal line was likely

0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:25.840
<v Speaker 1>to be carried over to other royal lines, since all

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:30.480
<v Speaker 1>these lines were tangled up. Take the blood clotting disorder hemophilia,

0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:34.360
<v Speaker 1>which is often described as the royal disease.

0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Because it was something that was genetically transmitted, and it's

0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:43.040
<v Speaker 2>something that really came to flourish in and among European

0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:46.960
<v Speaker 2>royal houses throughout late nineteenth and early twentieth century Europe.

0:31:47.000 --> 0:31:50.840
<v Speaker 2>Because Queen Victoria was a carrier of the gene and

0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:53.560
<v Speaker 2>so she had one son who was a hemophiliac, and

0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:57.840
<v Speaker 2>then she had several grandchildren who were carriers of the disease.

0:31:57.960 --> 0:32:01.960
<v Speaker 2>And because she had cast her net wide over Europe,

0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:06.320
<v Speaker 2>you really see heemophilia taking off in these generations of

0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:09.760
<v Speaker 2>matches that were made between and among the children and

0:32:09.760 --> 0:32:11.000
<v Speaker 2>grandchildren of Queen Victoria.

0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:14.400
<v Speaker 1>In the case of the royal houses which were beseicked

0:32:14.400 --> 0:32:17.160
<v Speaker 1>by it in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries,

0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:22.280
<v Speaker 1>hemophilia wasn't just a family matter. It threatened to upend

0:32:22.560 --> 0:32:23.680
<v Speaker 1>the world order.

0:32:24.040 --> 0:32:27.280
<v Speaker 2>The best example I can think of is Nicholas the Second,

0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:31.600
<v Speaker 2>the last Czar of Russia, the Romanov, the Romanov who

0:32:32.360 --> 0:32:36.280
<v Speaker 2>his wife, the Czarina, was a granddaughter of Queen Victoria.

0:32:36.480 --> 0:32:40.120
<v Speaker 2>Her brother had been hemophiliac and had died young. He

0:32:40.160 --> 0:32:42.840
<v Speaker 2>fell out a window and basically died of internal bleeding.

0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, basically, you can't be a hemophiliac and a

0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:48.400
<v Speaker 2>child and have any of the normal bumps and scrapes

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:51.240
<v Speaker 2>that a typical child would have growing up. And so

0:32:51.440 --> 0:32:56.000
<v Speaker 2>her and Nicholas's son, Alexei, who was the Tsarevich, the

0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:59.960
<v Speaker 2>heir to the throne, was born a haemophiliac. But essentially

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:04.200
<v Speaker 2>they spent the entirety of his life until the whole

0:33:04.200 --> 0:33:08.360
<v Speaker 2>family was murdered by the Bolsheviks, hiding him from the

0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:11.200
<v Speaker 2>public and hiding the fact that he was a hemophiliac.

0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:17.840
<v Speaker 1>The family drama inside the last Russian monarchy was dramatized

0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:22.200
<v Speaker 1>on screen in the nineteen seventy one film Nicholas and Alexandra.

0:33:22.880 --> 0:33:24.920
<v Speaker 4>There is no doubt of it, no doubt of any kind.

0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:29.520
<v Speaker 4>It is unquestionably hemophilia. I see, the female is the carrier.

0:33:30.080 --> 0:33:32.719
<v Speaker 4>The mother gives it to the son. Your mother got

0:33:32.760 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 4>it from her mother, Queen Victoria, and passed it on

0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:35.520
<v Speaker 4>to you.

0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:36.680
<v Speaker 3>I see.

0:33:37.680 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 2>A big part of why Zar Nicholas the second was

0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:44.400
<v Speaker 2>so disliked by the Russian public is because they never

0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:47.920
<v Speaker 2>saw him. He was invisible to the people of Russia.

0:33:47.960 --> 0:33:50.120
<v Speaker 2>And it was largely because he and his wife were

0:33:50.160 --> 0:33:53.959
<v Speaker 2>just consumed by dread that after years and years of

0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:56.760
<v Speaker 2>not having a son and only having daughters, and they

0:33:56.800 --> 0:33:58.680
<v Speaker 2>finally had this boy, and then they realized that he

0:33:58.720 --> 0:34:03.840
<v Speaker 2>can die at any moment from the slightest thing. So

0:34:03.920 --> 0:34:08.680
<v Speaker 2>they were constantly in seclusion with their child. Resputant was

0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:10.759
<v Speaker 2>brought in which is you know, kind of resputant is

0:34:10.760 --> 0:34:13.880
<v Speaker 2>always invoked as the kind of proof of how crazy

0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:16.120
<v Speaker 2>and out of touch these Tsars were, And they wanted

0:34:16.120 --> 0:34:20.399
<v Speaker 2>this Charlatan faith healer, mad priest, sex maniac to come

0:34:20.400 --> 0:34:24.120
<v Speaker 2>into the heart of their family and run things as

0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:26.759
<v Speaker 2>he did. But he was perceived by them as the

0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:29.359
<v Speaker 2>only thing that was standing between their son and death

0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:31.280
<v Speaker 2>from the complications of hemophilia.

0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:33.880
<v Speaker 4>I knew you were going to send for me. I

0:34:33.960 --> 0:34:35.200
<v Speaker 4>knew the child was sick.

0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:37.399
<v Speaker 3>I know what's the matter with him?

0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:41.320
<v Speaker 4>You can't I see blood when I shut my eyes.

0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:44.480
<v Speaker 1>The blood he may have seen was that of the

0:34:44.520 --> 0:34:49.920
<v Speaker 1>whole family executed by Bolshevik revolutionaries in nineteen eighteen.

0:34:50.520 --> 0:34:52.839
<v Speaker 2>So by the time they died, with still a very

0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:55.840
<v Speaker 2>young Tsarevich and the rest of their children, their daughters,

0:34:56.200 --> 0:34:58.279
<v Speaker 2>nobody in Russia knew that the boy was a hemophiliac.

0:34:58.560 --> 0:35:02.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh, my goodness, But the tsar and Tsarevich's in soelarty

0:35:03.239 --> 0:35:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and then the entrance of resputen. Both of these things

0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:11.400
<v Speaker 1>which are to their detriment, are connected to their son's hemophilia.

0:35:11.520 --> 0:35:14.839
<v Speaker 2>I intimately connected my only close royal friend, His great

0:35:14.880 --> 0:35:17.880
<v Speaker 2>great great grandparents were the aunt and uncle of Zar

0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:21.279
<v Speaker 2>Nicholas the second, and his name is Dimitri of Yugoslavia,

0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:24.319
<v Speaker 2>and he's the best storyteller around. And one of the

0:35:24.360 --> 0:35:28.480
<v Speaker 2>stories that he tells about Rasputin is that one day

0:35:28.520 --> 0:35:31.560
<v Speaker 2>the Tsarevich was playing inside in one of the big

0:35:31.640 --> 0:35:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Russian palaces and he was sitting in one of these

0:35:33.719 --> 0:35:36.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of massive, ornately decorated rooms where there were gigantic

0:35:36.920 --> 0:35:40.439
<v Speaker 2>chandeliers hanging from the ceiling, and Rasputin came running into

0:35:40.440 --> 0:35:44.120
<v Speaker 2>the room and pushed this little boy kind of out

0:35:44.160 --> 0:35:48.040
<v Speaker 2>of the way, and a gigantic chandelier came crashing down.

0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:51.399
<v Speaker 2>And the thought was that Rasputin really does have these

0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:54.799
<v Speaker 2>visionary qualities because he saw that this boy was about

0:35:54.840 --> 0:35:56.040
<v Speaker 2>to be crushed by a chandelier.

0:35:56.239 --> 0:36:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Wow. While Resputen's name has gone down in history as

0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:05.840
<v Speaker 1>a byword for someone who wields deceitful influence, perhaps it

0:36:05.880 --> 0:36:10.200
<v Speaker 1>should be more celebrated. The euro disco group BONEYM seemed

0:36:10.239 --> 0:36:10.839
<v Speaker 1>to think so.

0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:16.480
<v Speaker 2>The same.

0:36:20.719 --> 0:36:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you are writing a book now on another dynasty.

0:36:25.760 --> 0:36:29.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm writing a book on a number of interrelated dynasties,

0:36:29.480 --> 0:36:32.640
<v Speaker 2>but the center of gravity is a Bavarian dynasty called

0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:36.520
<v Speaker 2>the Vittelsbach And who are they? They are an old

0:36:36.600 --> 0:36:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Bavarian family, so south of Germany, Catholic dynasty. They were

0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:43.799
<v Speaker 2>already in the nineteenth century one of the oldest royal

0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:46.360
<v Speaker 2>families in Europe. They could trace their ancestry back to

0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:50.840
<v Speaker 2>the eleventh century. They had actually intermarried with both Spanish

0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:56.799
<v Speaker 2>and Austrian Habsburgs throughout history, sporadically periodically, because they were

0:36:56.880 --> 0:37:00.279
<v Speaker 2>Catholic royals and Catholic royals tended to like to with

0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:03.040
<v Speaker 2>each other, and the same for the Protestants. And they

0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:05.120
<v Speaker 2>really came to the fore as one of the more

0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:08.280
<v Speaker 2>colorful royal families in the second half of the nineteenth century.

0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:14.520
<v Speaker 1>And there are some particularly colorful members of this family.

0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I want to call my book Glass Piano Girl

0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:21.279
<v Speaker 2>and Other Stories of Royal Dysfunction. I'm not sure that's

0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:23.239
<v Speaker 2>what it will be allowed to be. But the Vittelsbach

0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:26.320
<v Speaker 2>princess who won my heart was the daughter of a

0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:30.239
<v Speaker 2>Vittelsbach Bavarian king Ludwig the first. Her name was Alexandra

0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:34.920
<v Speaker 2>of Bavaria, and she, when she was around eighteen, became

0:37:35.960 --> 0:37:40.080
<v Speaker 2>thoroughly convinced that she had swallowed two foreign objects that

0:37:40.360 --> 0:37:43.719
<v Speaker 2>were threatening to destroy her from within. The largest and

0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:47.880
<v Speaker 2>most problematic of these objects was a glass grand piano

0:37:47.960 --> 0:37:51.120
<v Speaker 2>that she thought was lodged in her stomach. And she

0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:54.200
<v Speaker 2>also believed that there was a miniature sofa that was

0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:57.120
<v Speaker 2>wedged in her skull, like somewhere in her brain, and

0:37:57.200 --> 0:37:59.960
<v Speaker 2>she would have these fits of I think what psychoanalyst

0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:03.440
<v Speaker 2>would call hysterical blindness, where the doctors couldn't find anything

0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:06.640
<v Speaker 2>wrong with her optic nerves. There was no as far

0:38:06.680 --> 0:38:12.040
<v Speaker 2>as we know, prominent genetic Vittelsbach hereditary condition that led

0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:15.239
<v Speaker 2>to these moments of blindness, and the Vittelsbach themselves had

0:38:15.280 --> 0:38:19.319
<v Speaker 2>intermarried for generations like so many royal families. But she

0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:22.839
<v Speaker 2>believed that this little miniature sofa was pressing on her

0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:24.280
<v Speaker 2>eyes and making her blind.

0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:27.120
<v Speaker 1>And can I ask was the sofa in the same

0:38:27.200 --> 0:38:29.399
<v Speaker 1>room as the piano? Was it like a drawing room

0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:30.680
<v Speaker 1>or a situation.

0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Or I don't know how she It's funny because she

0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:35.200
<v Speaker 2>became a writer in later life, but she never really

0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:37.880
<v Speaker 2>wrote about the floor plan, the floor plan of her

0:38:37.960 --> 0:38:40.279
<v Speaker 2>body as a set of different chambers. But I mean,

0:38:40.280 --> 0:38:44.719
<v Speaker 2>definitely they were distinct scale differences. The piano was a

0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:48.120
<v Speaker 2>properly sized grand piano, whereas this little sofa was tiny

0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:50.680
<v Speaker 2>enough to somehow fit in her skulp. But her doctors

0:38:50.760 --> 0:38:54.080
<v Speaker 2>finally tricked her out of believing that she had this

0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:56.799
<v Speaker 2>tiny sofa in her head because they induced vomiting one day,

0:38:57.320 --> 0:38:59.480
<v Speaker 2>and then in the bucket that they held out to

0:38:59.520 --> 0:39:03.600
<v Speaker 2>collect her sick they fished out the surreptitiously slipped in

0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:06.640
<v Speaker 2>piece of dollhouse furniture. They took a little, tiny dollhouse

0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:09.520
<v Speaker 2>sofa and said, do you see, your highness, Thanks to

0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:12.919
<v Speaker 2>the emetic that we've prescribed, you've been purged of it now.

0:39:13.160 --> 0:39:15.879
<v Speaker 2>But because she was convinced that the piano in her

0:39:16.040 --> 0:39:18.759
<v Speaker 2>abdomen was full sized, they could never come up with

0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:22.200
<v Speaker 2>a similar trick, so she really off and on suffered

0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:26.040
<v Speaker 2>from incredible periods of almost paralyzing terror, where she was

0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:28.480
<v Speaker 2>afraid that if she moved even the least bit the

0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:31.280
<v Speaker 2>wrong way, or if she jostled up against a person

0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:33.319
<v Speaker 2>or a wall, or a door or the arm of

0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:35.560
<v Speaker 2>a chair, that the whole thing would shatter and shred

0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:40.920
<v Speaker 2>her inside. Royal photography was starting to come into vogue

0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:43.200
<v Speaker 2>in this period, and we do have at least two

0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:46.799
<v Speaker 2>photographs of her. But the photographs we had of her

0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:49.640
<v Speaker 2>are of just a woman who looks haunted and hunted

0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:53.800
<v Speaker 2>and kind of you know, just like a hollow face,

0:39:53.880 --> 0:39:56.080
<v Speaker 2>because she was afraid to eat too. I mean, eating

0:39:56.160 --> 0:39:59.440
<v Speaker 2>became a challenge. Everything was a challenge. She saw potential

0:39:59.760 --> 0:40:03.480
<v Speaker 2>day everywhere and lived a fairly long life by those standards.

0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:05.120
<v Speaker 2>I think she died when she was around sixty. And

0:40:05.160 --> 0:40:09.480
<v Speaker 2>this is Princess Alexandra of Bavaria. Then Ludwig the castle Builder,

0:40:13.120 --> 0:40:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Ludwig the castle Builder, So Ludwig the Second was Alexandra's nephew.

0:40:19.000 --> 0:40:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Ludwig the Second was the most flamboyantly eccentric of all

0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:25.640
<v Speaker 2>the Vittel's Box and probably of all royals in the

0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:30.440
<v Speaker 2>nineteenth century. He had this kind of also delusional quality

0:40:30.440 --> 0:40:33.399
<v Speaker 2>to his mental makeup, where, for instance, he believed that

0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:36.640
<v Speaker 2>he was in constant communion with the ghosts of the

0:40:36.719 --> 0:40:39.879
<v Speaker 2>royals that he most admired, who weren't even necessarily close

0:40:39.920 --> 0:40:42.960
<v Speaker 2>relations of his or related at all. In particular, he

0:40:43.000 --> 0:40:47.920
<v Speaker 2>would have these kind of spiritual conversations with Marie Antoinette

0:40:47.920 --> 0:40:50.800
<v Speaker 2>and Louis the fourteenth, and he so firmly believed that

0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:53.040
<v Speaker 2>they were around him and talking to him and advising

0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:56.480
<v Speaker 2>him that he would have these elaborate dinner parties served

0:40:56.520 --> 0:40:59.319
<v Speaker 2>where it was just himself and the bust of Louis

0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:01.719
<v Speaker 2>the fourteen, the bust of Marie Antoinette, and he would

0:41:01.719 --> 0:41:04.160
<v Speaker 2>have dish after dish brought in by valets and liveried

0:41:04.200 --> 0:41:07.200
<v Speaker 2>valets standing in attendance, and they would clear away the

0:41:07.239 --> 0:41:10.840
<v Speaker 2>plates of like mounds of pheasant, mounds of suites. He

0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:14.560
<v Speaker 2>loved sweets that Obviously, these bust statues were not consuming.

0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:18.440
<v Speaker 1>But the favorite extravagance of the Ludwig the castle Builder

0:41:18.840 --> 0:41:21.560
<v Speaker 1>was building castles.

0:41:21.320 --> 0:41:25.240
<v Speaker 2>And he built castles all over Bavaria. One of his castles,

0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Neus s Fonstein, was the one that became the basis

0:41:27.520 --> 0:41:29.560
<v Speaker 2>for the Disney World Castle. So when we think of

0:41:29.719 --> 0:41:33.479
<v Speaker 2>a cartoon version of a castle with crazy turrets, and

0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:35.960
<v Speaker 2>it almost looks like it's something out of a fairy tale,

0:41:36.040 --> 0:41:40.440
<v Speaker 2>this was born of the feverish imagination of Ludwig the Second.

0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Ludwig believed he ruled by divine right, which meant no

0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:48.719
<v Speaker 1>checks or balances from his royal cabinet, which meant he

0:41:48.880 --> 0:41:53.480
<v Speaker 1>ignored all warnings about the disaster his frienzied spending was

0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:54.960
<v Speaker 1>leading towards.

0:41:55.160 --> 0:41:58.400
<v Speaker 2>He bankrupted Bavaria single handedly by building these castles, and

0:41:58.480 --> 0:42:01.840
<v Speaker 2>was actually caught by his men ministers writing letters to

0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:05.680
<v Speaker 2>various bankers around Europe offering to sell them Bavaria so

0:42:05.719 --> 0:42:07.720
<v Speaker 2>that they would advance him the money to keep building

0:42:07.760 --> 0:42:11.600
<v Speaker 2>his castles. So he was really quite a maniac. But

0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:15.200
<v Speaker 2>the palaces that he built that were so hard on

0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:17.919
<v Speaker 2>the Bavarian treasury, in fact, are now huge tourist draws

0:42:17.960 --> 0:42:19.960
<v Speaker 2>in bavarias if people go to Bavaria, they want to

0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:21.440
<v Speaker 2>see those castles.

0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Crazy rich Bavarians.

0:42:23.200 --> 0:42:26.360
<v Speaker 2>Crazy rich Bavarians. He didn't know how to spend it

0:42:26.400 --> 0:42:27.080
<v Speaker 2>fast enough.

0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:31.520
<v Speaker 1>How confident are you that this behavior was at least

0:42:31.520 --> 0:42:33.640
<v Speaker 1>in part due to intermarriage.

0:42:33.880 --> 0:42:36.839
<v Speaker 2>The vittels Box intermarried a lot, not as much as

0:42:36.840 --> 0:42:39.040
<v Speaker 2>the Habsburg's, but it was really a proud tradition and

0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:43.239
<v Speaker 2>it dated back many many generations, and anecdotally, by the

0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:46.759
<v Speaker 2>nineteenth century there was a kind of what we would

0:42:46.760 --> 0:42:50.560
<v Speaker 2>call a meme about something called the Vittelsbach madness. Then

0:42:50.600 --> 0:42:54.680
<v Speaker 2>the perception really was that Ludwig had inherited this madness

0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:58.040
<v Speaker 2>from the Vittelsbach side of the family, and so it

0:42:58.160 --> 0:43:01.120
<v Speaker 2>was seen as this kind of possibly hereditary taint.

0:43:02.200 --> 0:43:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Then Ludwig's younger brother.

0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh Auto Ludwig Ludwig was overthrown by his cabinet in

0:43:09.200 --> 0:43:11.080
<v Speaker 2>eighteen eighty six, who were afraid that he was going

0:43:11.120 --> 0:43:13.319
<v Speaker 2>to sell the Kingdom of Bavaria. They couldn't get him

0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:16.279
<v Speaker 2>to stop spending on the castles, and they overthrew him,

0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:19.080
<v Speaker 2>knowing that his younger brother was even crazier than he was,

0:43:19.160 --> 0:43:21.759
<v Speaker 2>but thinking that at least the younger brother Otto, who

0:43:21.800 --> 0:43:24.600
<v Speaker 2>was handed the throne as Otto the first, would be

0:43:25.719 --> 0:43:30.960
<v Speaker 2>pliable in their hands. Because Otto basically went through protracted

0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:33.279
<v Speaker 2>periods where he believed that he was a dog, and

0:43:33.360 --> 0:43:36.359
<v Speaker 2>so Otto never really even tried to rain. Otto never

0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:39.680
<v Speaker 2>had the power of the purse. Otto was really run

0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:42.800
<v Speaker 2>by his one of his dog walkers.

0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:45.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and his belief that he was a dog. How

0:43:45.880 --> 0:43:46.760
<v Speaker 1>did this manifest?

0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:51.360
<v Speaker 2>I belief that he was a dog manifested itself in lunging, snarling, biting.

0:43:51.520 --> 0:43:54.000
<v Speaker 2>He actually he was kept for most of his adult

0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:56.879
<v Speaker 2>life and most of his reign in one particular kind

0:43:56.880 --> 0:43:58.440
<v Speaker 2>of out of the way palace that not too many

0:43:58.480 --> 0:44:01.640
<v Speaker 2>people would risk a visiting. Sometimes his relatives felt bad

0:44:01.680 --> 0:44:03.080
<v Speaker 2>and went to visit him, and they were the ones

0:44:03.080 --> 0:44:06.240
<v Speaker 2>who would report that he was like leashed to a wall.

0:44:06.400 --> 0:44:08.520
<v Speaker 2>And when they would come into the room, you know,

0:44:08.560 --> 0:44:10.720
<v Speaker 2>and you'd be presented, because he was still the kings.

0:44:10.760 --> 0:44:13.280
<v Speaker 2>He'd be presented with all this pomp and like liveried servants,

0:44:13.320 --> 0:44:15.160
<v Speaker 2>and you'd do your deep curtsies if you were a woman,

0:44:15.239 --> 0:44:17.080
<v Speaker 2>or your deep ritual bows if you were a man,

0:44:17.440 --> 0:44:21.240
<v Speaker 2>but you'd see this snarling person on all fours, tethered

0:44:21.239 --> 0:44:23.680
<v Speaker 2>to the wall and like snapping at you and apparently

0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:26.400
<v Speaker 2>foaming at the mouth. There are reports also that he

0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:28.560
<v Speaker 2>would only eat out of like a dog bowl or

0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:29.480
<v Speaker 2>a bowl on the ground.

0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Now, Carrie points out that as a young man, Auto

0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:35.720
<v Speaker 1>had been forced to fight in the Franco Prussian War,

0:44:36.000 --> 0:44:40.840
<v Speaker 1>where he witnessed atrocities and suffered post traumatic stress disorder.

0:44:41.120 --> 0:44:43.120
<v Speaker 2>But the dog delusions had already kind of started with

0:44:43.120 --> 0:44:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Auto when he was a teenager, before he went off

0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:46.759
<v Speaker 2>to war, And I think more just sent him over

0:44:46.760 --> 0:44:47.120
<v Speaker 2>the edge, and.

0:44:47.160 --> 0:44:49.640
<v Speaker 1>Just exacerbated and sent him over the edge. Can we

0:44:49.760 --> 0:44:54.400
<v Speaker 1>draw a line between there and the outbreak of World

0:44:54.440 --> 0:44:54.919
<v Speaker 1>War One?

0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:58.560
<v Speaker 2>I think in many ways we can, because By the

0:44:58.640 --> 0:45:02.680
<v Speaker 2>time World War One broke out in nineteen fourteen, Europe

0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:07.920
<v Speaker 2>was still almost entirely ruled by people from old royal

0:45:08.000 --> 0:45:13.160
<v Speaker 2>families who had varying degrees of inbreeding and varying disadvantages

0:45:13.200 --> 0:45:16.120
<v Speaker 2>that attached to that. And so the kingdom of Bavaria,

0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:19.520
<v Speaker 2>for instance, I mean, I think it's incredible fragility is

0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:22.320
<v Speaker 2>highlighted by the fact that these two kings, Ludwig the

0:45:22.320 --> 0:45:24.480
<v Speaker 2>second and Auto the First, were kings, and yet they

0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:28.640
<v Speaker 2>couldn't govern, They were incapable of governing, and Bavaria is

0:45:28.640 --> 0:45:30.839
<v Speaker 2>one of the kingdoms that collapsed with World War One.

0:45:31.280 --> 0:45:34.560
<v Speaker 2>The Romanovs were, you know, autocrat of all. The Russia's

0:45:34.640 --> 0:45:37.120
<v Speaker 2>was actually the Bizar's title. And the idea was you

0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:40.000
<v Speaker 2>ruled by autocracy because you were chosen by God and

0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:41.919
<v Speaker 2>the people are not supposed to have a voice at all.

0:45:41.960 --> 0:45:44.800
<v Speaker 2>And when people started wanting to have a voice, Nicholas

0:45:44.800 --> 0:45:48.319
<v Speaker 2>the second didn't listen to them, partly through his retrograde

0:45:48.360 --> 0:45:51.920
<v Speaker 2>convictions in the superiority of royal birth and his divine mandate,

0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:54.560
<v Speaker 2>but partly again also because he was so distracted by

0:45:54.560 --> 0:45:56.040
<v Speaker 2>his son's chemophilia.

0:45:56.520 --> 0:45:59.840
<v Speaker 1>And we can't forget about those Austrian Habsburgs.

0:46:00.360 --> 0:46:04.719
<v Speaker 2>The Emperor of the Austro Hungarian Empire, Franz Joseph, was

0:46:05.040 --> 0:46:08.520
<v Speaker 2>himself the product of Habsburg and a Vittelsbach marriage. His

0:46:08.719 --> 0:46:13.440
<v Speaker 2>wife was twice over of Vittelsbach. Her parents were Vittelsbach cousins.

0:46:13.840 --> 0:46:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Their only son, Rudolph, died by suicide after killing his

0:46:18.400 --> 0:46:21.759
<v Speaker 1>seventeen year old mistress in a hunting lodge in what

0:46:21.960 --> 0:46:25.520
<v Speaker 1>became known as the Mayrling Incident. It would have a

0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:30.279
<v Speaker 1>profound effect on European geopolitics, since Rudolph was seen by

0:46:30.400 --> 0:46:32.960
<v Speaker 1>royals as the great progressive hope.

0:46:33.080 --> 0:46:35.399
<v Speaker 2>He was the one who had really had these kind

0:46:35.440 --> 0:46:39.600
<v Speaker 2>of ambitions to liberalize and modernize the Austro Hungarian Empire

0:46:39.680 --> 0:46:42.719
<v Speaker 2>and give the people more of a voice, adopt some

0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:47.160
<v Speaker 2>of the kind of more modern liberal notions of constitutional

0:46:47.239 --> 0:46:51.000
<v Speaker 2>rule and checks and balances. But his mother was terrified

0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:53.759
<v Speaker 2>that by dint of being doubly a Vittelsbach on her

0:46:53.760 --> 0:46:56.200
<v Speaker 2>mother's on her father's side, that she had transmitted this

0:46:56.280 --> 0:46:57.600
<v Speaker 2>Vittelsbach madness to.

0:46:57.600 --> 0:46:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Him, and she felt guilty.

0:46:58.760 --> 0:47:01.720
<v Speaker 2>She felt guilty, and she might not have been wrong.

0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:06.520
<v Speaker 1>After the prince's death, the line of succession eventually passed

0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:11.480
<v Speaker 1>to Rudolph's cousin, Archduke Franz Ferdinand, whose name you may

0:47:11.560 --> 0:47:16.040
<v Speaker 1>remember from high school European history. His assassination led to

0:47:16.120 --> 0:47:18.160
<v Speaker 1>the outbreak of World War One.

0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:22.359
<v Speaker 2>To draw the line between World War One and in

0:47:22.400 --> 0:47:25.040
<v Speaker 2>reading it would sound maybe specious or flip, but I

0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:29.120
<v Speaker 2>think that the reason why these questions about royal intermarriage

0:47:29.120 --> 0:47:31.840
<v Speaker 2>and what their actual effects were on the human beings

0:47:31.840 --> 0:47:34.160
<v Speaker 2>who were produced by those systems is that those were

0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:37.440
<v Speaker 2>the same human beings who governed most of the world

0:47:37.680 --> 0:47:38.920
<v Speaker 2>through nineteen eighteen.

0:47:41.800 --> 0:47:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Bear in mind, in just the Austro Hungarian Empire you

0:47:45.960 --> 0:47:50.719
<v Speaker 1>had one forgive the expression crazy ass family deciding the

0:47:50.760 --> 0:47:54.279
<v Speaker 1>fate of more than fifty million people, and.

0:47:54.239 --> 0:47:56.759
<v Speaker 2>The fact that World War One seesed the collapse of

0:47:56.760 --> 0:48:01.000
<v Speaker 2>the Russian Empire, the Prussian Empire, and the Austro Hungarian Empire.

0:48:01.320 --> 0:48:04.680
<v Speaker 2>It's another death of dynasties in effect, and all of

0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:09.000
<v Speaker 2>those families had really been mined by problems that seem

0:48:09.080 --> 0:48:11.320
<v Speaker 2>to correlate with in rereading, even though there were plenty

0:48:11.360 --> 0:48:15.520
<v Speaker 2>of other geopolitical factors and domestically political factors.

0:48:15.880 --> 0:48:20.720
<v Speaker 1>Honestly, folks, this is all a reminder that democracy really

0:48:20.800 --> 0:48:30.800
<v Speaker 1>remains the best game in town. I hope you enjoyed

0:48:30.880 --> 0:48:33.640
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0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:37.800
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0:48:58.960 --> 0:49:03.239
<v Speaker 1>This episode of Obituaries was produced by Aaron Schrank. Our

0:49:03.320 --> 0:49:08.640
<v Speaker 1>team of producers also includes Hazelbrien and me Moroka, with

0:49:08.840 --> 0:49:12.440
<v Speaker 1>engineering by Josh Han. Our theme music is written by

0:49:12.520 --> 0:49:17.800
<v Speaker 1>Daniel Hart. Our archival producer is Jamie Benson. Mobituary's production

0:49:17.920 --> 0:49:23.360
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0:49:23.400 --> 0:49:27.960
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0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:33.040
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0:49:33.120 --> 0:49:38.560
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