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That's thirty dollars off your first box and 29 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: free croissants for life when you visit wildgrain dot com, 30 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: slash podcast, or simply use the promo code podcast at checkout. 31 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: This is a sponsor I absolutely embrace, so use that code. 32 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: Well. 33 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: Joining me now is the mayor of Minneapolis. It's Jacob 34 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: cried mister Maher. I appreciate you taking a few minutes 35 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: with me. 36 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me. 37 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: So, I mean, just we get a few you know. 38 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: One of the things that why I appreciate the longer 39 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: form is that we can put some context, so just 40 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: in a quick summary, because a lot of people don't 41 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: know what is the what powers individual mayors have. Right 42 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: in some cities it's a strong mayor. Some cities, it's 43 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: a weak mayor. Some cities it's up to the mayor 44 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: who the police chief is. Others it is not. So 45 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: give me the quick structure on law enforcement in your 46 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: authority over law enforcement. How much it's you, how much 47 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: it's the city council. 48 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 3: In twenty twenty two, we began officially shifting our structure 49 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: of government to what is known as a strong mayor system. 50 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 3: I just call it a regular mayor system. It's sure 51 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 3: Innneapolis and St. Paul and Duluth in New York City. 52 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 3: Chicago is a strong mayor's system where the executive runs 53 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 3: the day to day operations and the council is like 54 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: the congress. They as laws or. 55 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: More of a legislature, also participating in the executive functions. 56 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. So the police, for instance, report up 57 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 3: through the commissioner. 58 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: Ultimately, so you appoint the police commissioner or does the 59 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: city council have a saying that. 60 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 3: I appoint the Commissioner of Safety and the police of 61 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 3: chief the chief of police. Our council then confirms the appointment. 62 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: Gotcha? So I say this because when it comes to okay, 63 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: so let's take the so called phrasing of sanctuary city, right, 64 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: And I know you. At first it was an executive order. 65 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: Now it's been codified in the city law, and I 66 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: guess what is the line between city and state and 67 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: then what is the line between city and federal in 68 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: this sanctuary law. 69 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 3: Well, you're asking all the right questions. So we have 70 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 3: had what is called a separation ordinance in place well 71 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 3: before my time, right, with that order on some twenty 72 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 3: plus years, right, it's been quite simple, and it's virtually 73 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 3: been the same throughout that entire time period. The Council 74 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 3: lamented it a little bit recently, but it's virtually the 75 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 3: same thing. And the basis of it is this is 76 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 3: that our police officers, our officials at the City of Minneapolis, 77 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 3: do not coordinate with any federal agency around immigration enforcement work. So, 78 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 3: in other words, we will not work with ICE or 79 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 3: any other federal agency that has been deputized around immigration 80 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 3: enforcement work. We do work with them around general safety, 81 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 3: crime prevention, driving down homicides, that kind of stuff. And 82 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: we also won't ask people as to their documentation status. 83 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 3: And so when we haven't asked somebody their documentation status, 84 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 3: we haven't gathered any information, And because we haven't gathered 85 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 3: any information, when Donald Trump or anybody else asks us 86 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,559 Speaker 3: for all of our information, our answer is quite simple, 87 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 3: which is we don't have it right. 88 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: What is the line of when you think somebody's immigration 89 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: status matters when you have a interaction with a resident 90 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: of your city. 91 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: For purposes of safety, It doesn't for purposes of calling 92 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 3: nine to one one, It doesn't. You know, I want 93 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 3: our police officers spending their limited and valuable time keeping 94 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 3: people safe, driving down murders, arresting carjackers, doing all the 95 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 3: basic stuff that any police officer would need to do 96 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 3: on a daily basis. I don't want them spending a 97 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 3: single second hunting down some father who just dropped his 98 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 3: kids off at daycares about to go work a twelve 99 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 3: hour shift, who happens to be from Ecuador. Like that 100 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 3: guy makes our city a better place. And so, as 101 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 3: far as you know, what is the line. Look, I 102 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 3: don't know if you committed a murder or you shot 103 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 3: a gun. I don't care where you're from. I don't 104 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 3: care who your parents were. You know there are consequences 105 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 3: for that, But I don't get the sense of spending 106 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 3: limited resource is on Immigration. 107 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: If ICE comes to the city of Minneapolis and says, 108 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: we believe you have a criminal in custody, will you 109 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: release that criminal to us if they have proof that 110 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: this individual is a criminal? What is the policy of 111 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: the police force at that point. 112 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 3: So there's parts where we are involved and there's parts 113 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 3: where we are not arresting that criminal. We are involved, 114 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 3: and we will work with federal agencies to arrest that criminal. Now, 115 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 3: remember the whole concept of deportation is on the civil side. 116 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 3: But we will work with federal agencies to get a 117 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 3: guy that has done bad dates, murders, carjackings, whatever it 118 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 3: might be. We at the city, however, don't control the jail. 119 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 3: So the whole concept of. 120 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: The interest that is that is the Canneban County. 121 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: Now he runs the jail. That is the jail. And 122 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 3: then the state, who has provided quite a bit of 123 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 3: information recently about how they actually do work with immigration 124 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: and ICE to provide, you know, to you know, not 125 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 3: let murderers back on the street. That's through the state. 126 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: Like any situation, I assume you tried diplomacy first, meaning 127 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: you know, you knew a new administration was coming in 128 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: and all this stuff. What were those conversations like before 129 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: this escalated to what it has become today, walk me 130 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: through your interactions you had with DHS or with ICE, 131 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: or with any part of the federal government before it 132 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: got to where what you're having to deal with in 133 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: the moment. 134 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 3: With this administration, it was a pretty quick zero to 135 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: one hundred, not as far as this operation goes, but 136 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 3: as the general mentality of what they were doing. And look, 137 00:07:54,640 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: you always expect different ideologies and value use with a 138 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 3: new administration, especially a new administration that is of a 139 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: different party, but this is something entirely different. Even from 140 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 3: the first Trump administration. We did not see this kind 141 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: of conduct to this degree with the first Trump administration. 142 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: And I think it was probably twenty or thirty days 143 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 3: or something like that, maybe even less after Trump was 144 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 3: sworn into this term. I got a letter on my 145 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 3: desk from I believe the Office of Management and Budget. 146 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 3: They quite literally said that all grants that were provided 147 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: to the City of Minneapolis totally somewhere in the range 148 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 3: of seventy million dollars would be cut off. And the 149 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 3: basic lever that they were trying to pull was, you 150 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 3: will lose this money if you don't get rid of 151 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 3: all diversity work and stop the separation. 152 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: Which I want to put up, which federal governments have 153 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: tried to do with cities and states for decades. Right 154 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: is always the first threat is usually financial. 155 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 3: Right it is. And there's a ton of legal dictum 156 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 3: on this particular issue of how much can you know 157 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 3: the federal government influence or coerce cities based on some 158 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 3: alternate policy that has nothing to do with that right 159 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 3: and so, But they've taken a pretty extreme line on 160 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 3: how they're doing it. 161 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: So you now, this wasn't a case of I mean, 162 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: have you had a meeting with Christino and said, hey, 163 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: what are you trying to truly accomplish here that's in 164 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: the interest of public safety. We'd like to help. Have you. 165 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: Have you been able to have that conversation with the 166 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 1: Secretary of d J. 167 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 3: I have not had that conversation because the way they're 168 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 3: framing this up, sadly, is not about safety. I don't 169 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 3: even think it's about immigration. I think this is political retribution. 170 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: I think you feel like it's all about George Floyd. 171 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 3: I don't know George Floyd. I think it's about Tim Walls. 172 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 3: It's it's you know, the Vice presidential candidate ran against 173 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, and I think there's a I think perhaps 174 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 3: Donald Trump is unhappy that for three elections in a row, 175 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 3: Minnesota did not support his candidacy. I believe that he's 176 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 3: trying to make a point here. 177 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: And well, when you look at the data, it's not 178 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: like it's not as if Minneapolis stands out compared to Chicago, Denver, 179 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: New York. We could go through the cities here. So 180 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: it does feel as if you're you, I think you 181 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: have said this that you feel as if you're a 182 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 1: petri dish political petritish right now. 183 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 3: You know, it feels a little bit as if there 184 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 3: were multiple things that were occurring in rapid succession that 185 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 3: don't necessarily have anything to do with one another, you 186 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 3: know what I mean. It almost feels like you remember 187 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 3: like post nine to eleven. I remember, you know, you 188 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 3: reporting on that, you know, at nine to eleven, and 189 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 3: then you had going after the Taliban. Then it was 190 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 3: looking at Afghanistan. Suddenly we're in Iraq again, and so 191 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 3: it was these things that, like if you weren't paying 192 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 3: a lot of attention, were seemingly linked, but they weren't 193 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 3: at all, And so we had an issue in our 194 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 3: state around fraud, and look, it's real, it is a 195 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 3: real issue. And then there were these racist attacks on 196 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 3: entire communities, most notably are Somali community, based on that fraud. 197 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 3: And then from there it was let's I believe and 198 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 3: this is not based on personal information. I speculate that 199 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 3: somebody from relatively high up in the Trump administration said, 200 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 3: go to Minneapolis, go to Port a bunch of Somalis, 201 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 3: and whoever gave that directive didn't get the necessary pushback, 202 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 3: and then suddenly you got a bunch of ICE agents. 203 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 3: There are in many apple Is trying to deport Somalis, 204 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 3: only to find out they're from here. They're American citizens, 205 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 3: they got here on a plane, they're here legally. 206 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: When we're the first Somalian settled settlements, it was in 207 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: the mid to late nineties. 208 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, I would say, men, we were. 209 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: Accepting refugees from a war torn country. This was a country. 210 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: So this is what America has done for decades. That's right, 211 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: that's refugees from a war torn country. Yeah, they've been 212 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: here longer than I've been here. They're very Minneapolis and 213 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: at this point, you know, multiple generations they have been. 214 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 3: And so it's it's it's not like there's a location 215 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 3: where you can go to get a bunch of undocumented Somalis. 216 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 3: Those locations don't exist because again, for the most part, 217 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: they're citizens. 218 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: So basically you have this fraud issue that really has 219 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: nothing to do with undocumented. 220 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 3: Immigrants, right, right, it's it's a completely separate issue. 221 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: And you know, I mean the irony is whatever fraud 222 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: was committed was likely committed by American citizens. 223 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 3: Correct A likely? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I don't breakdown, 224 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 3: but yes, you know, and when somebody commits fraud, you investigate, 225 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 3: you prosecute, you charge, you get a conviction, and yeah, 226 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 3: you put the person in jail as an individual. You 227 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 3: don't hold an entire community accountable. You hold the person 228 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 3: accountable as an individual. It's just a very basic American value, 229 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 3: in law enforcement value, and it's shocking and concerning that 230 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 3: we're getting so far straight from that. 231 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: Well I'm old enough to remember when part of the 232 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: anti woke mindset was to not was to not try 233 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 1: to attack an entire group of people for one person, right, 234 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: I thought that was one of the complaints. Yeah, I 235 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: mean that was coming from the right. But day here 236 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: we are. Let me ask you about dealing with the 237 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: safety of your community. Nine to one one response times 238 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: have gotten worse in the last few months. Do you 239 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: believe that's directly the result of the chaos that you 240 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: believe is creating in your city. 241 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 3: I'm certain that's part of it. With anything law enforcement related, 242 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 3: there's always more than one causal factor. But look, we 243 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 3: got six hundred cops in the city. We have fewer 244 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 3: officers per capita than virtually any major city in the country. 245 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: Are you short of cops? I mean and an ideal world, 246 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: do you wish you had more? Yes? Yeah, I mean 247 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: I've yet to meet a mayor that is not frustrated 248 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: by this. I'm pretty friendly with maryel Bowser, mayor of DC, 249 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: and she's literally, I swear almost wearing a sign, you know, 250 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: call please apply. 251 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 3: You know, I wear the same sign, and I would argue, 252 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 3: I would argue we need them even more. Just on 253 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 3: a per capita basis, we are very low. We hemorrhaged 254 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 3: officers following twenty and we are at the point where 255 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 3: we're netting positive. More and more officers are coming on, 256 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: but we don't have enough. Now, juxtapose that six hundred 257 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 3: number versus the three or four thousand or whatever it is. 258 00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 3: ICE agents and border control is a massive imbalance here, 259 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 3: and our police officers have got to do the day 260 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 3: to day work of being a cop. And you know, 261 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 3: on top of that, we've got all of these calls 262 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 3: coming in, all of these you know, ICE instigated events 263 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 3: that are taking place that requires some form of our 264 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 3: police officers to do even more work on top. 265 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: So what happened? So if somebody calls in and says, hey, 266 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: I'm being harassed, I'm a I'm a Minneapolis resident, I'm 267 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: an American citizen, and I feel as if I'm being 268 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: harassed by these ICE agents. What are your what's your 269 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: police force supposed to do? Well? 270 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 3: It all depends on the nature of the call. Of course, 271 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 3: we respond to calls regarding kidnappings, and so if somebody 272 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 3: says my son is getting kidnapped, we go. If if 273 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 3: there is a protest taking place in an ambulance needs 274 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 3: to get in to help somebody, we escort the ambulance in. 275 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 3: If property damages take place, we deal with the property damage. 276 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 3: And yes, we intervene if there is some form of 277 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 3: misconduct or unlawful behavior that is part of our officer's jobs. 278 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 3: And obviously this gets very difficult when you're also trying 279 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 3: to determine whether the conduct that is taking place is 280 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 3: within the roles and responsibilities provided delegated to ICE other agencies, 281 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 3: or if it's outside that scope of a criminal nature. 282 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 3: This is a very tenuous and difficult place for officers 283 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 3: to be. 284 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: And let me guess most of your police officers don't 285 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: travel with legal counsel. 286 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 3: Now, do they believe it or not? They don't. 287 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I just so what is I mean? 288 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: I get that each circumstance is unique, but you know what, 289 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: what advice are your police officers getting and dealing with 290 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: these situations. 291 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 3: Their their goal is to keep the peace, their goal 292 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 3: to keep pizza. 293 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: De escalate whatever it is. They're just trying to de escalate. 294 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 3: Absolutely, they try to de escalate the situation. They try 295 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 3: to keep the peace. They do not and will not 296 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 3: cooperate with ICE or any federal agency on immigration enforcement work. 297 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 3: That's not our job, that's not what we do. And yeah, 298 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 3: they're trying to keep people from getting hurt or injured. 299 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 3: And the way that ICE is conducting this, I'm telling 300 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 3: you it's I've never seen anything like this. 301 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: Do you think this is designed to provoke a response? 302 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, perhaps, I don't. I mean, look, I don't. I'm 303 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 3: not in the mind of either of these federal agents 304 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 3: nor this administration. I think a lot of what is 305 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 3: happening is designed to create some form of response. I mean, 306 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 3: we don't have that many undocumented immigrants here. What they're 307 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 3: doing is not based on safety. We have partnered with 308 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 3: them based on safety. This seems to me like, you know, 309 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 3: they are trying to whip people up into a frenzy. 310 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 3: And I mean, thankfully and for the vast majority of 311 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 3: people in our city and the tens of thousands of protesters, 312 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,479 Speaker 3: they're not taking the bait. They're not countering Donald Trump's 313 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 3: chaos with our own brand of chaos here. 314 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: You know. 315 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 3: That's that seems like what they're looking to do. And 316 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 3: they've got fifteen hundred militarized troops that are presently on standby. 317 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: This episode of The Chuck Podcast is brought to you 318 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: by Quints, and I love me some Quints. New Year, 319 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: Colder Days. This is the moment your winter wardrobe really 320 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: has to deliver. If you're craving a winter reset, start 321 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: with pieces truly made to last season after season. 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Clothing 341 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: that looks stylish looks good, but is actually practical and 342 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: isn't going to break the bank. So refresher winter wardrope 343 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: with Quints. Go to quints dot com slash chuck for 344 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty 345 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: five day returns. And it's also available in Canada. That's 346 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: q u i ncee dot com slash chuck, free shipping 347 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: and three hundred and sixty five day returns quints dot 348 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: com slash chuck. What legal avenues do you think you 349 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: have to sort of at least limit ICE's uh ability 350 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: to roam the city. I mean this sort of five 351 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: to one ratio right being outnumbered by Ice and Border 352 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: patrol versus your local police. That seems excessive. Is there 353 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: a court Is there a legal avenue a court order 354 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: you could get that says you know, this is this 355 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: is outside the bounds of what's necessary, This is an 356 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: excessive et cetera. Is there is there any lea avenue here? 357 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 3: There is a legal avenue. I am hopeful that we 358 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 3: will succeed in the litigation that is presently underway. We 359 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 3: have a judge. I think we're working towards a hearing. 360 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 3: Dat I was hoping that it was going to be 361 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 3: this Friday, and I'm optimistic. 362 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: And what do you want that judge to do? What's 363 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: the specific ask? 364 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 3: This specific? I mean, there are several asks within the 365 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 3: complaint itself, but the basic one is to stop the operation, 366 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 3: appear and simple, yes, to stop the operation that is 367 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 3: presently taking place, which is the huge influx of federal agents. 368 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 3: I mean, look, you know ICE has existed now for decades. 369 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 3: Immigration enforcement exists. We're not talking about like just ICE 370 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 3: doing ICE stuff. We're talking about constitutional violations which have 371 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: gone way beyond anything I could imagine it. This is 372 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 3: targeting of Somalia and Latino people. 373 00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: This is. 374 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 3: I mean, this is actually happening. Do you look Somali? 375 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 3: Do you look Latino dragging people off the street, give 376 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 3: me your passport or else we're detaining you. That is 377 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 3: actually happening, you know, mister May, this is the hardest 378 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 3: thing to convey. I think these days, especially in the 379 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 3: world of deep fakes, nothing you believe, nothing online feels 380 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 3: like it's on the up and up. Obviously we live, 381 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 3: we've been sort of poisoned by these algorithms and all 382 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 3: of that. 383 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: I find this to be the hardest thing to convey 384 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,959 Speaker 1: to people who are not seeing it firsthand, and I 385 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: imagine you feel this frustration as well. There was a 386 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: Brooklyn Park police chief when viral yesterday with some comments 387 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: he made about what has happened to off duty officers 388 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: who just don't happen to look like you and me? 389 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: What kind of experiences have you heard on that front? 390 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: And if you talk to any of these off duty cops, 391 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: have they shared their experiences with ice of you? 392 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've heard countless instances very similar, almost identical to 393 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 3: what you heard from that. I believe it was Brooklyn Park, Yeah, 394 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: police chief. 395 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: For those of you that are in Brooklyn Park, I 396 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: believe that's where Jesse Ventura was mayor if I'm not mistaken. 397 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 3: Back in the day, I often get to who if 398 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 3: it's from Brooklyn Park or Brooklyn Center, which are right 399 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 3: next to E. 400 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: But I do think you were one of them. Was 401 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: where Jesse Ventur got to start, right? Yeah? For those 402 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: outside of Minnesota keeping score at home, anyway, go ahead, Sorry, 403 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: I am all. I am, after all a political Juggie 404 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: pot page. 405 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 3: I am impressed. Yes, No, Minnesota has gone a long 406 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 3: a long history of of interesting and fascinating and politicians. 407 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: One of my favorite states, you know, because of that. 408 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: I love the characters and the personalities and what I 409 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: use what Hubert Humphrey once called the politics of joy 410 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: that was Minnesota. 411 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: In Minneapolis actually not a lot of joy these days. 412 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah, this is the kind of dynamic 413 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 2: that we're hearing about constantly. And apart from, of course, 414 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: the unlawfully detaining people of the United States citizens, apart 415 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 2: from the gimme your passport and your identification based on 416 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 2: nothing more than being a part being a person of color. 417 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 2: I mean, we've seen we've seen our own city employees 418 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 2: in city uniforms, by the way, in city vests. You know, 419 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 2: There'll be four public works employees out there filling potholes, 420 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 2: and the three that are brown or black get id 421 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 2: and the one guy that's white. Doesn't mean you can't 422 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 2: do that. Uh, they're filling potholes. This ain't America. The 423 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 2: other thing that we're seeing is just just really dumb, 424 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 2: just dumb anti safety conduct taking place. 425 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: You get they were better trained, this might be going better. 426 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, better trained, a better direction, better moral authority, 427 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 3: some some form of moral compass, you know, the over 428 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 3: on Third Avenue, which is the street that we are 429 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 3: right off right now. It's a pretty significant street. They detained, 430 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 3: They ice detained. Somebody yanked them out of the car, 431 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 3: kept the car in drive. There's nobody in the car. 432 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 3: Car is just rolling down the street with nobody in it. 433 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 3: I mean, that could have hit my parents, you know, 434 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 3: that could have injured somebody. We've got other instances where 435 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 3: they detained the person and then suddenly you got a 436 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 3: stray dog and the dog is just roaming around the city. 437 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 3: It's cold out right now. We got a call in, 438 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 3: you know, the other day from a five year old 439 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 3: kid who was speaking Spanish saying, I don't know where 440 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 3: my parents are. They haven't come home. I mean, this 441 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 3: is the kind of heartbreaking stuff that we're hearing about 442 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 3: right now. And again, it's not about catching criminals. I'm 443 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 3: just sick of this narrative. I'll take the most the 444 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 3: simplest position that I have maybe ever taken as mayor, 445 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 3: which is in Minneapolis. Were anti murder in Minneapolis, were 446 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 3: anti rape. If you want to catch a murder or rapist, 447 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 3: we're on board, let's do it. That's not what this 448 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 3: is about, though. 449 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: How concerned. Are you that residents are going to take 450 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: matters into their own hands. 451 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 3: I mean, of course that is a concern, But for 452 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 3: the most part, I mean I'm inspired. I have been 453 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 3: watching people go source their local food bank and get 454 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 3: people groceries and escorting people on their walk or their 455 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 3: drive to work. I mean, you have tens of thousands 456 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 3: of people showing the world exactly who Minneapolis is and 457 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 3: what we say stand for and our core convictions and values, 458 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 3: and by the way, people from different ideological perspectives as well, 459 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 3: all saying, you know what, I love our neighbor, we 460 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 3: stand by them, we support our local business or local restaurants. 461 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 3: I mean, it's something that is truly magnificent. I've never 462 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 3: been more proud to be from Minneapolis. 463 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: I want to go back to the decision not to 464 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: let Ice use city property. I understand the symbolic nature 465 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: of that. It hasn't deterred Ice from arguably causing even 466 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: more chaos by getting using private property, being disruptive using 467 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: federal property. Is that policy workable? 468 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 3: I think it's a fair question to ask. I mean, 469 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 3: we want to make it clear that we will not 470 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 3: cooperate with them and allow them to do this really 471 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 3: unconstitutional conduct with our resources and that includes our parking lots. Look, 472 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 3: is it like some big monumental measure. No, No, I'm 473 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 3: certainly not arguing that. But it was a tool that 474 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 3: we had and it's a tool that we're going to use. 475 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: Do you need more resources from the state? 476 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 3: I mean, always we're always asking for re. 477 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: Sure on this particular issue. I mean, i mean, look, 478 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: this seems like a far fetch question. But and I 479 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: and I'll be honest, I've I've not wanted to go 480 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: down this road because of the of the implications of it. 481 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: But if you thought about asking the governor to call 482 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: up the National Guard to help deal with ice in 483 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: your community. 484 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 3: We have talked with the governor about calling up the 485 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 3: National Guard and what that would look like and where 486 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 3: they would where and how they would be utilized. Importantly, 487 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 3: the governor has the authority over the National Guard, not 488 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 3: the president. 489 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: The governor. 490 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 3: Governor has the authority of when, where, how and if 491 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 3: to implement the National Guards. 492 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: He has authority over the National Guard within the state 493 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: of Minnesota. Correct, Yes, right, I mean there is a 494 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: like he couldn't tell this that a sort of national 495 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: guard go into Wisconsin. 496 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 3: Correct, that should have been that distinction. 497 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, no, well I just I was just 498 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: doing the sort of for the list everybody. 499 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and he has called them up to have them 500 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 3: on standby on the number of occasions already. And that's 501 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 3: a very important move one because we've got the additional 502 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,479 Speaker 3: resources if in fact we need them. We haven't. But 503 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 3: what it also does is show Governor Wallas has got it. 504 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 3: You know, he's he's on And I think that's a 505 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 3: very important point. 506 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: What do you have an understanding what what the subpoena 507 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: was about that you received? I know it wasn't you personally, 508 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: it was I guess the was it the City of 509 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: Minneapolis or the office of the mayor. 510 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 3: That got the office of the mayor? 511 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: And what were the record? What was subpoena? 512 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 3: I mean, all sorts of stuff. I think generally these 513 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 3: subpoena processes, especially through grand juria, or supposed to be secret, 514 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 3: but they're clearly trying to make a big public fiasco 515 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 3: out of it. I don't have the thing in front 516 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 3: of me. I mean what I'll say is it should 517 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 3: be deeply concerning to everyone that the Department of Justice 518 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 3: is being weaponized to go after political leaders that disagree 519 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 3: with the president. I mean, the thing in essence that 520 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 3: I would be getting targeted for is doing one of 521 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 3: my most core and critical jobs that I have as mayor, 522 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 3: and that's to speak on behalf of my constituents. It's frivolous. 523 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 3: I almost don't like saying that because it's so obvious. 524 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 3: And then this kind of this is problematic for everybody. 525 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 3: We should all be very well. 526 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: Look, I've often said a bit in jest that if 527 00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: the FBI came knocking on my door and showed up 528 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: up with some sort of charge, I wouldn't believe him. 529 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: I'd tell them, I don't think you're the FBI. I 530 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: don't believe you. I mean, I say they are, you know, 531 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: being a little like I said, it's a tad bit 532 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: tongue in cheap, but you know, the level of credibility 533 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: that the federal law enforcement agencies have with a large 534 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: share of the public is quite low right now. I mean, 535 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: do you trust the current Department of Justice? 536 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 3: No? No, I mean, and that's a crazy it's not 537 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 3: a crazy thing to say right now, but it should be. 538 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 3: It should be my mentality, my mentality throughout My life 539 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 3: has been of a whole lot of faith and trust 540 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 3: in not just the federal government, but specifically the Department 541 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 3: of Justice, of these kind of legal supposedly quasi independent 542 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 3: entities that are able to enforce and carry out the law. 543 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 3: I mean. And part of that faith stems from the 544 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 3: fact that you've got these long term bureaucrats. Bureaucrats often 545 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 3: have a negative connotation to them, but they are these 546 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 3: people that span beyond administration. They were there for Bush 547 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 3: and Clinton, they were there for Obama. 548 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: The careers, know, I wish we wouldn't call them bureaucrats, 549 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: say their careers, which frankly, you know, was something that 550 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: was actually a civil service reform that goes back if 551 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: you I think people got a mini education on it, 552 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: if they binged to death by lightning on Netflix recently. 553 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: It was sort of the hallmark of the Garfield, Chester 554 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: Arthur presidencies. Was this to create this nonpartisan government worker protection. 555 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 3: And there's so much value to that one because you've 556 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 3: got this institutional knowledge and memory that spans between administrations 557 00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 3: into the conviction and the loyalty is not to some guy, 558 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 3: it's to America. And you talk to so many of 559 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 3: these people and they're like, they're very much sure they vote, 560 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 3: but they are very much postpartisan, I mean, and they 561 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 3: believe in command and control and the order that they bring. 562 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 3: And they also very much believe in the Constitution, and 563 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 3: that so many of these career would you call them careerists, 564 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 3: these professionals, that so many of them have said, that's it, 565 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 3: We've had enough work out, we can't do this anymore. Both, 566 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 3: I give them a lot of credit for, you know, 567 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 3: leaving their job because they're not going to do this 568 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 3: horrible thing. And at the same time, it's really problematic 569 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 3: because what does that leave you with. It leaves you 570 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,239 Speaker 3: with I don't know, a loyalists who are just going 571 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 3: to do whatever the president tells you to. Let me. 572 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: I know you're busy. I want to get you out 573 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: of here in this which is given the experience now 574 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: you're feeling of this weaponized federal government, right. I look, 575 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: it looks like you've been to targeted. This looks like 576 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: it's an attempt to spark A response was a this 577 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: was a specific let's go here, there's a blue city 578 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: activist we can that won't be popular with centrist you know, 579 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: you can see the sort of political design in the 580 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: heads of these folks. Do you think people didn't stand 581 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: up to Trump enough? Has there been too much appeasement? 582 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,439 Speaker 1: Do you think do you have any advice or told 583 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: you sos to eddy Democratic leaders when it comes to 584 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: Trump that you'd like to express, or do you feel 585 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: as if that, Hey, guess what, you know? Failure of 586 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: imagination is basically the only sin people have committed when 587 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: it comes to Donald Trump. 588 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 3: Failure of imagination, perhaps failure of believing that he's going 589 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 3: to do the things that he says he's going to do. 590 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: Well, We're used to politicians not doing that, right, so 591 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: we just assume he's full of it. And the thing is, 592 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: he is full of it until he's not full of it. 593 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 3: I mean, some of these horrific things he has told 594 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 3: people that he was going to do them, and you know, 595 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 3: I could probably count myself in with those that should 596 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 3: have believed that he was going to do some of 597 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 3: this crazy stuff, because at least initially back in twenty sixteen, 598 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 3: I kind of shoved it off, like, oh, come on, 599 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 3: that's ridiculous. But now we're in a second term here, 600 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 3: and he's carrying some of it out and it's terrifying 601 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 3: and it's reached a whole new level than anything that 602 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 3: we saw in that first term. 603 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: Well, do you think there's any end in sight to 604 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 1: this or is it going to your last Is the 605 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: court the sort of the last place you can go. 606 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 3: Well, we are accessing every single channel that we have. Yes, 607 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 3: we are litigating preemptively. We are litigating in response to 608 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 3: what's taking place. I am very optimistic that we're going 609 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 3: to win. And at the same time, we are also 610 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 3: accessing other channels in the federal government in the White 611 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 3: House to try to get this to change, you know, 612 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 3: pushing out to business leaders and CEOs to have them 613 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 3: utilize their connections. 614 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: Or it has been bad politics for the Republicans. This 615 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: has not been good for them. Just if you just 616 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,479 Speaker 1: look at it, it's been bad politics, so one would 617 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: assume that they would change. By the way, are you 618 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 1: going to be able to do a real investigation on 619 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 1: whether renee Good was murdered? 620 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 3: We need to do a real investigation. The investigations should 621 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 3: run through the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, which is the 622 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 3: state based agency that has done these investigations on use 623 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 3: of force repeatedly. They've run investigations that have come to 624 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 3: both charging decisions and a lack of charge. This is 625 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 3: not some radical organization. This is largely you know, lawyers 626 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 3: and police officers that are part of this group, and 627 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 3: that's where it needs to go. 628 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: Has there been an investigation opened and they just can't 629 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: get cooperation or you're waiting to see if you get 630 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: cooperation before you can open an investigation. 631 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 3: There, well, the federal government has My understanding is that 632 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 3: they have blocked out the b c A from getting 633 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 3: critical and important evidence that we have allowed them to 634 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 3: run this investigation side by side with the FBI, sure 635 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:16,959 Speaker 3: and the side. 636 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,720 Speaker 1: It would have been a normal way to do business 637 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: back in the normal way. 638 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 3: Very normal way. I mean it has it has done 639 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 3: that before. That's the way we have operated for uh. 640 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 3: But but and you know, barring that, yeah, I would 641 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 3: like to be see it to do the investigation themselves, 642 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 3: and of course there will be support. 643 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 1: How much of your job is dominated by this current crisis, I. 644 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 3: Mean much of it obviously, But we're you know, we're 645 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 3: going to keep providing important constituent services. We do the 646 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 3: work of the city. You know, city governments were the 647 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 3: ones that don't shut down so we keep rolling. We're 648 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 3: not quitting. We're not going to get intimidated by what's 649 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 3: going on. 650 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: Mister Mayor. I appreciate the time. Like I said, I 651 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: know you're busy, so when or one hour podcast is 652 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: a lot to ask. So I appreciate you giving me 653 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: thirty unor to be here with you watching a lot 654 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: as a kid, so I've watched me for a long time. Well, 655 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate you making me feel little. That's awesome. Yeah, thanks, 656 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: all right, thank you, mister mack alright. By having good 657 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: life insurance is incredibly important. I know from personal experience. 658 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,720 Speaker 1: I was sixteen when my father passed away. 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