1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: P I Magazine is the most respected magazine of the 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: professional investigator, featuring stories and articles on current topics, equipment reviews, 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: investigative tips, and practical advice for the professional investigator. Don't 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: miss a single issue of PI Magazine. Subscribe today at 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: PI magazine dot com. Use this show's promotional code for 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: your special discount at p I magazine dot com. Subscribe 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: today use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: promo code Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: XM Triumph Channel one two. Hardly three or four days 10 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: past that I do not think about a beautiful young girl, 11 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: long blonde hair, big blue eyes, the world in front 12 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: of her, just starting out in her professional life. And 13 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: I also think about her parents, because her parents, Drew 14 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: and Joy, spent their whole life working to make a 15 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: living to support Jennifer and her brother, the entire family, 16 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: pouring all their love, their hopes, their dreams, their money, 17 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: their attention. Oh, think about it. You know, the literally games, 18 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: the girl scows, the cookies, the this, the that, the 19 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: tooth fairy, the braces, It goes on and on and on, 20 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 1: and it's They're not chores. They're not chores at all. 21 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: They're the things you do for love, and to this day, 22 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: they are still doing it for love, searching for their 23 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: beautiful girl, Jennifer Kessie. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 24 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. I've been thinking about 25 00:01:55,120 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: that a lot, the things you do for love. I 26 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: want to go out first. Our guests joining us, Joseph 27 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, now renowned forensics expert, author of Blood Beneath 28 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: My Feet, Journey of a Southern Death Investigator, Professor of 29 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: Forensics at Jacksonville State University. Sean Gerd joining us, the 30 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: co producer up an wildly popular podcast, Unconcluded, and special 31 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: guests joining me, my long time friends Drew and Joyce, Cassie, 32 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: Jennifer's parents. I want to go first to miss Cassie. Joyce, 33 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: thank you for spending your time with me, with all 34 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: of us, just so you know we care. We all care. 35 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: There's no way we could walk a mile in your shoes. 36 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: But I hope sometimes knowing that we all of us 37 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: listening care about Jennifer helps you in some way. I 38 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: don't know if it can or not, but please tell 39 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: us when this odyssey started it was just a normal day. 40 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: That's how it was with my fiancee was killed. It 41 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: was bright and shiny and beautiful when I stepped out 42 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: of that building at Mercer University. I had no idea 43 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: what was to come that day. Please take me back, 44 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: miss Cassie, to the day that you realize Jennifer was gone. Well, 45 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: I actually, without excuse me, I was at a local 46 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: UM print shop. I was getting ready to do a 47 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: presentation at work and my phone rang and it was 48 00:03:54,760 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: Jennifer's employer wondering if there was a family emergency. And 49 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: I it totally took me off guard, and I said, 50 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: excuse me, And he wanted to know if there was 51 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: a family emergency and I said, no, what's the matter 52 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: And he said, they can't reach Jennifer. She didn't show 53 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: up for work, And instantly I knew that something was 54 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: wrong because that's not Jennifer. And that started the surreal 55 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: nightmare that to this day. UM is our life. UM 56 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: our life is dedicated to finding Jennifer. Now. Um it's it, Nancy, 57 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: it remains. Sometimes I have no words for this journey 58 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: and this life that we're living, but it is all 59 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: about Jennifer and what happened to her, and she gives 60 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: us strength to keep pushing to find out what happened 61 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: to her. You know, I think about so many things 62 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: that you said are just colliding in my head right now. 63 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: First of all, I smiled because I thought of you, 64 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: and I feel like I know you so well now, 65 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: but without of you at a print shop, because now 66 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: being at a print shop getting ready for a presentation 67 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: something nobody, my childer wouldn't even know what what what 68 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: I was talking about, because with the im patents into this, 69 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: the printer in the basement blab you know, they don't 70 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: even know what we're talking about. You have to go 71 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: to a print shop to get a presentation ready. I 72 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: was just thinking about you there at the Xerox machines 73 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: and trying to bind things and blow ups. And then 74 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,559 Speaker 1: I thought about what you said, that this is your life. 75 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: You know, I have thought the very same thing so 76 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: many times about you know, when I would be in 77 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: the depths of despair, when I was just alone, I 78 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: could feel the presence of eats death. It was like 79 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: a presence in the room, taking up the room. M hm. 80 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: And now I try, you know, not to let that 81 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: be in my life. To affect my children. But it 82 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: is it is your life. It's who you are and 83 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: how you live, how you wake up every morning, what 84 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: you think about, that's who you become. You know. I'm 85 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: thinking about that day when you were at the print shop. 86 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: What did you do when they said that, I mean, 87 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: Jennifer never missed work, very responsible? What what did you do? 88 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: You're standing there with all these papers and bindings and 89 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: blow ups and all that, and like a what do 90 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: they say, Jackie um Kinko's or a quick copy? What 91 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: did you do it? It was that I was actually 92 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: out of stable and I had this presentation I was 93 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: doing for believe it or not, Medicare party um the 94 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: drug Plan, and it had just rolled out twelve and 95 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: a half years ago. And when I got the phone call, 96 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: I immediately just was in shock. And the girl at 97 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: the register knew that something was wrong. I started crying 98 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: and she came over and I just said, I can't, 99 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: I can't, and I walked away from all of the work. 100 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: I just asked her to shred it. I went to 101 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: the cancer hospital that I was working at and I 102 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: went to the Social work office and I told them 103 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: they canceled the presentation. They sat with me until Drew 104 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: drove the hour up from Brandon, and then we made 105 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: that two hour trip over to Orlando calling police. I 106 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: all all of my colleagues to say, please, you call police. 107 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's still is surreal. I still 108 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: cannot believe that I haven't hugged Jennifer in twelve and 109 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: a half years, and that's what I missed them up. 110 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: I have to tell you something, miss Cassie. I've I've 111 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: spoken to you several times, but when you were just 112 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: talking and I actually thought I was going to be 113 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: sick to my stomach because it brings back so vividly. 114 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: It's that moment, that moment nobody has to tell you. 115 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: When they said she didn't come to work, you knew 116 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: and used to shred it and walked out. When they 117 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: told me to call Keith's family, I need ma'am right 118 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: then mm hmm. That he was gone, and it's such 119 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: a shock I can I can hardly even remember what 120 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: happened after that, and I'm thinking about you and those 121 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: feelings are it's very overwhelming. So you called your husband 122 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: and where was he at that time? He was at 123 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: home working in his home office and our son, Logan 124 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: was at the gym. And ironically, Logan's car had just 125 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: been put on a UM Car transport carrier because he 126 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: was in the process of moving out to California, so 127 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: he didn't have a car. So when I called Drew, 128 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: Logan had taken Drew his car to the gym. He 129 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: had left his phone at home. Drew didn't know the 130 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: name of the gym, so Drew is like pacing. He 131 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: called the UM Mosaic at Millennia, the complex where she lived, 132 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: and UM asked them to please check her unit look 133 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: for her car, which they did, and they had two 134 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: managers come and go into her home. Nothing looked out 135 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: of place. Her suitcase was still inside the foyer of 136 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: her home. And that's when the reality hit that, oh 137 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: my god, something has happened to Jennifer. And it's funny 138 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: because my initial reaction was, oh my god, we've got 139 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: to find her. For some reason, I didn't go My 140 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: mind didn't go right away to a car accident. Well 141 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: that's I remember, Joyce. I kept thinking, I've got to 142 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: get to Keith. I've got to get to Keith because 143 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: I can fix it. I've got to get there and 144 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: of course who's out of town, and there's all sorts 145 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: of mix ups trying to you know, rally people so 146 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: I could get to where I needed to be. And 147 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: then you know, I've I've told this story. I saw 148 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: my pastor on the other side of a desk right 149 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: Burnstein Funeral Hume, and it was upside down and I 150 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: read it and that's when I knew that there had 151 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: not been an act. I didn't know what had happened, 152 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: but I knew that Keith was dead then and doctor 153 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: Oliver hung the phone up and I said what happened? 154 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: And he said Keith was murdered. And I, like you, 155 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: I didn't immediately get I knew something was horribly wrong, 156 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: but I didn't go to there. I wouldn't let my 157 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: mind go there. Just thinking of that mix up with 158 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: your son has the car and Drew Cassie is at 159 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: the house kind of trapped, pacing around, and you're trying 160 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: to get there and he's an hour away and she's Orlando. 161 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: Just the the mix up, even that is breaking my 162 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: heart because the whole time you're you're trying to get 163 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: there and you can't get there, so you're calling the 164 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: management and I'm sure, they did exactly what they said, 165 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: but I wouldn't believe it until I went myself and 166 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: did it myself. So you you get hooked up with 167 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: Jennifer's dad, your husband Drew, and you're on your way 168 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: to Orlando. You're frantically calling people on the telephone. What 169 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: are you guys talking about during that drive. Well, we 170 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: did a lot of crying, and we still do a 171 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: lot of crying, but we just we were an overdrive. 172 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: We didn't know what to think. We knew something was wrong. 173 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: We knew we had to find Jennifer. My one colleague 174 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: for the company I was working with. Orlando is her territory, 175 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: and I asked her what was the weather, like, you know, 176 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: was it raining in the morning, Thinking well, maybe her 177 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: car skid off the road into the woods. But but Nancy, 178 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: It's really strange because as I'm asking my colleagues these questions, 179 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: somehow I just knew in my heart that it was 180 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: not an accident. It was something that we had to 181 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: find Jennifer, like, we had to find her. I can't 182 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: explain it. I can't I but I can't explain it 183 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: because Jennifer had felt uneasy in that complex. If you 184 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: recall from the workers and they would make lear and 185 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: comments and what have you. So I think maybe on 186 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: some subconscious level that must have just been bubbling onto 187 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: the surface us. So that went Jen didn't show up 188 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: for work and I found out that the roads were 189 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: clear that day. I just, uh, something happened to her. 190 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: Now I can't tell you what I thought happened to her, 191 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: but it wasn't a car accident with me. In addition 192 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: to Sean Guard and Joseph Scott Morgan and Jennifer's mom, 193 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: her beautiful mom, Joyce Kessie is Jennifer's dad, Drew, I 194 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: just I just wish I could be in the room 195 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: with you right now and just hold your hand to 196 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: see you. I don't know what that emotion is when 197 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: you just want to be with somebody in the flesh 198 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: through that day to your memory. And I don't know 199 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: if it's been distorted over time. I don't know if 200 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: there are moments you can't remember. That's what's happened to me? 201 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: And what do you recall of that morning? Well, you 202 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: do start to forget some things, um and usually are 203 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: a little minor things that you you wish you could remember. 204 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: You know, the toner voices, the last things you've said, 205 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: the last things you hear, and what have you. But 206 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: as Joyce said, I worked out of my home um 207 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: and I was in on Tuesdays. It was a Tuesday morning, 208 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: and on Tuesdays it was telemarketing day in my position 209 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: in sales, and I usually made about a hundred telephone 210 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: calls looking for appointments. And I got a call from 211 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: a friend of mine who Jennifer worked at a company 212 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: of a friend of ours, and he said, hey, Um, 213 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: is anything wrong with jen She didn't show up for 214 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: work today. And I'm like, well, that's weird. No, nothing's 215 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: wrong with jenn I spoke to her last night. Let 216 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: me give her a call. I'll call you right back. 217 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: And she always picked the phone up period. It was 218 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: just a rule in our house that if your mother 219 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: or father calls you, we don't care where you are. 220 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: You picked the phone up. And it was the first 221 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: time ever since sixteen years old when we gave her 222 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: her phone and she had a car, probably fifteen years old. Drew, 223 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: that is so funny. That is the only call I 224 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: will absolutely always pick up. It's from my mother or 225 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: before my dad went to heaven, my Dad, everybody else, 226 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, let it keep, let's go to voicemail. As 227 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: everybody's looking at me right now and knows oh so 228 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: well at the same rule here, you know, that's the 229 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: only people Rain or Shine, Hell are high water. I 230 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: would pick the phone up, so I'm just imagining you 231 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: dialing that number. So you dial it, and what happens. 232 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: For the first time ever, it didn't ring. It went 233 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: straight into her voicemail. And when that happened, I knew 234 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: something was really wrong. So of course I'm trying to 235 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: collect Logan, which I couldn't collect until he got home 236 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: from the gym, and I'm calling Joyce saying, you know, 237 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: we've got to meet up, and we're calling obviously the 238 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: police were calling hospitals, we're calling jails, we're calling anywhere 239 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: we think that this some woman daughter of ours could 240 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: possibly be at the time, and you know what, Drew, 241 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: what people if you unless you're in that spot, I 242 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: remember you know you guys know Mr miss Kessey know 243 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: it was well over twenty years after Keith Margaret that 244 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: I could trying to move forward. And I'm married David, 245 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: who I'm with today and we have our twins. Well 246 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: because I guess because of what happened with Keith. I'm 247 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: always freaked out when the twins are David frankly my 248 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: mom out of my sight. And he flew out of town, 249 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: actually to your neck of the woods, and he texted 250 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: when he touched down, but then I never heard his 251 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: voice again. And by about midnight, you know, I had 252 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: gotten the children to bed, and I didn't know hear 253 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: from him. I'm like, did somebody hit him in the 254 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: head in the parking lot? Did he ever even make 255 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: it out of the parking deck at the airport? Do 256 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: you know? I got my friend d on the phone. 257 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: We stayed up that night, believe it or not, until 258 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: five in the morning, and um, I didn't know any 259 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: hotel numbers, any hospital numbers, anything. When you're trying to 260 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: find somebody, it's hard. We were on multiple devices looking 261 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: up numbers, trying to call. Finally found him, and the 262 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: big lug had had dinner and fallen asleep in his clothes. 263 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: He was so tired because he's been up since four 264 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: in the morning. And I finally got a manager to 265 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: go to his room and bam on the door to 266 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: make sure that he was okay. And when you're trying 267 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: to do that. It's you don't have the number, or 268 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: you can't find this, you can't you're running out of 269 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: places to look. I could just see you two in 270 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: the car, trying to call hospitals, trying to call sheriffs, 271 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: trying to call police, trying to call friends, and it's 272 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: just a big mishmash of confusion. Were you guys doing 273 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: this in the car as you drove, Yeah, we were 274 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: was driving about ninety miles up are out four, just 275 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: trying to get there. Yes, we needed to get there. 276 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: And all along the way we were you know, we 277 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: were talking to people, and as Joyce said, we had 278 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: the management company go in there and nothing seemed wrong whatsoever. 279 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: And when we arrived, you know, we did get the sheriff, 280 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: and we were no sooner at the front door of 281 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office that they called us on the phone 282 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: and said, hey, it's not us, it's Orlando Police. Go 283 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: to Rocondo. We'll have somebody meet you. And our first 284 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: uniforms officer, Officer Coudre I remember his name to this day, 285 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: looked at us in the face after looking around their 286 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: condo and said she had a fight with their boyfriend, 287 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: she'll be back, and he walked out. Did you know 288 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: about a recent law that could leave your personal data 289 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned on 290 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: the news lately, you know the Internet has created a 291 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: dangerous new world. Data breaches exposed private information. 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Visit truth finder dot 307 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: com slash nancy, enter your own name yet started our 308 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: first uniforms officer, Officer Coudre, I remember his name to 309 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: this day, looked at us in the face after looking 310 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: around their condo and said she had a fight with 311 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: their boyfriend. She'll be back, and he walked out. And 312 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: that was our first experience with law enforcement trying to 313 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: help us. And we tried to express to Officer Coudre 314 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: that that's not what happened, that something very wrong has happened, 315 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: because we know our daughter and uh. It probably took 316 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: us about another four to five hours that night of 317 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: calling people who knew people who knew people in Orlando 318 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: before we finally got to the proper person who said, 319 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: maybe we need to take a look at this. I 320 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: cannot believe you lost five hours were we were on 321 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: the corners at four thirty in the afternoon with fires 322 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: we made. Oh my stars, that must have broken your heart. 323 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: That and the frustration of getting there beyond beyond frustrating, 324 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,239 Speaker 1: I mean, and being told that and the cop just 325 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: walks off. Oh okay, when you get there. When you 326 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: drive up to her condo in Orlando, the Orlando area, 327 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: that was a nice condo community, very nice, upscale. They 328 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: were having a lot of construction. You know how what's 329 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: the condo community or apartments? Do? Well? They suddenly have 330 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: quote phase two and the next thing he turned around, 331 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: there's phase three and phase four, and pretty soon there's 332 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: no trees and no lake and no saw grass knows nothing, 333 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: nothing but condos. Anyway, her condo a community was really nice, convenient. 334 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: You drive in and you get to her place, what 335 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: did you say? We saw an empty parking spot. Um 336 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: So we said, okay, she must have made it out 337 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: or attempt to make it out. We went up to 338 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: her condo, opened the door and everything was it locked, 339 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: you know it was it was long, well the condo, 340 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: the condo was locked. But I mean we had the 341 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: management going before we came, so you didn't really know. Okay, 342 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: so it was lots lots But again again nothing was 343 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: out of place. Her bathroom was just a sheer mess, 344 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: because that's what she does when she gets ready. But 345 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: everything else in her entire condo was just totally in place. 346 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: Um So we say, that's funny you would say that. 347 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: Um Joseph Scott Morgan with me, Sean gird with me, 348 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, my children that you know very well. Lucy's 349 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: bathroom They've got tiny NETTLEBT bathrooms off their bedroom. And 350 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 1: when Lucy gets out, and she is the organized one 351 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: who's always taking notes and very meticulous, her bathroom looks 352 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: like a cyclone headed. Okay. John David, who's the mayor 353 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:23,719 Speaker 1: of Funville, his bathroom is absolutely perfectly in place. Okay, 354 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: So when you if I found them opposite, I would 355 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: think they had switched bathrooms. So when he says her 356 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: bathroom looked just like it did when she always gets 357 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: ready for work, that's the way Lucy's is going to base, 358 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: the way it is in the morning before school, that 359 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: means something, Joe Scott, it means something explained. Why little 360 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: clues like that count. Yeah, I think you're writing in justice. 361 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: Mr Keisie had said, Uh, you know this is this 362 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: is not something new relative to Jennifer. That's that's something 363 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: that is unique to her that he is obviously recognized 364 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: as her dad. Uh you know, and uh, you know, 365 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure over the years they've had discussions about it, 366 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: as I have with my children. But it is a 367 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: clue because it's something that's familiar, it's something that is expected, 368 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: it's not out of the norm. Uh. And so yeah, 369 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: that I think that that's that gives you the impression 370 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: that you know the place was being lived in, that 371 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: she had been there. Um and well, it gives me 372 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: a timeline. It gives me a timeline. Joe Scott, you 373 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: and I talked about that all the time. Shaan gird unconcluded, 374 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: co producer podcast devoted to Jennifer Kessey, Sean, that tells 375 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: me she got up that morning and confused and messy 376 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: does not mean ransacked because the rest of the home, 377 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: the condo, was not ransacked. That tells me that's my timeline. 378 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: She got up as normal at whatever time that would be, 379 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: she got in there, she got ready, and that's where 380 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: that starts my timeline. Shawn Gard, Yeah, I think so. 381 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: I think that when you look at it, that's the 382 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: initial question. But you know, I think that it's one 383 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: of the things with Jennifer's disappearance that a lot of 384 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: people talk about, is is that initial timeline and when 385 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: was she taken or when did she disappeared the morning 386 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: or was it the night? And and they're all those 387 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: little clues that at home, you know that the CouchSurfing 388 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: sleuth tries to look at it is those things, you know, 389 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: the bathroom was messy, so that probably means that she, 390 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: you know, got up and used it in the morning. 391 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 1: But you know, people let their minds wander and they 392 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: start thinking about, well, maybe someone staged it that way, 393 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: or someone was familiar so they could put it that way. 394 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: And I think that you can go a million different ways. 395 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: But if you kind of take things for the faith 396 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: value and look at them and think about, Okay, this 397 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: is what this is saying, I think I agree with you. Yeah, 398 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: it would look like that she kind of did her 399 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: normal routine that morning and after that point. Well there's 400 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 1: another thing, Sean, Mr Cassie Drew Cassie, as I recall, 401 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: the chef hour was still damp, and that would rule 402 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: out her having left it messy the night before. And 403 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: one other thing too, Nancy is I've never known Jennifer 404 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: to take a shower at night ever ever period really 405 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: does she does she take a bath or bath at 406 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: night or just she takes bath in the morning, and 407 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: that's it. Strictly strictly showers and strictly in the morning. Okay. 408 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: See that's another thing that you when you know somebody, 409 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: see my children are the reverse. They take a shower 410 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: and a bath sadly a very long one every night, 411 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: and it would be, you know, a stroke of a 412 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: light that have to be one of the seven plagues 413 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: before they take on in the morning before school. Okay, 414 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: that's another thing that you know which means to me 415 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: in my mind, just human nature. She had to have 416 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: been in there that morning. So Mr Kessey, what else 417 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: did you observe in the condo other than you think 418 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: she got up on time and took her shower to 419 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: go to work right. Um, she had, she had and 420 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: she was known for this too. Even at home. She 421 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: would take out outfits um of her liking for the 422 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: next day and she would choose one of them to 423 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: put on the following morning. And we did have a 424 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: couple outfits sitting on her bed um when we went 425 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: into her bedroom. So she did take out outfits to 426 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: pick to pick one obviously she was wearing. Um. She 427 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: did have her pepper spray which she always carried. It 428 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: was sitting right on a counter inside her front door. 429 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: And we truly believe that was left there because she 430 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: could not take it to St. Croix with her, that 431 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: they would have confiscated that getting on the plane. That's right, 432 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: she was just getting back from a trip, a vacation trip, 433 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: in her bags were still sitting there. I want to 434 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: ask you a question about the clothing. So her clothing 435 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: was still lying on her bed. You said she laid 436 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: out her clothing at night. Would she have left it 437 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: laying out on the bed? What joyce? I'm sorry, Well, 438 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: she would have it. She laid it out in the morning, Okay, 439 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: So that makes more sense to me. She would lay 440 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: out several different outfits. And it's interesting because the outfit 441 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: her color scheme of the day was tan and black, 442 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: because those were the outfits that were laying on the bed. Interesting. 443 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: So what I was thinking about, just so you know 444 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: why I asked that obscure question, I thought, well, she 445 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: laid it out at night. What did she sleep under 446 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: the covers with the clothes on top? Because that didn't 447 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: make sense to me because they she may kicked him 448 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: off onto the floor during the night, and that made 449 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: me think, well, does that affect the timeline? Did she 450 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: lay him out the night before and that's when she 451 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: got taken that That's why I asked. Now, that makes 452 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: sense to me. So you find nothing else unusual within 453 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: her condo and the management tells you her door was locked. 454 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: All right, let me figure out Joyce. Cassie, do you 455 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: agree with Drew's rendition so far? So then what happened 456 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: to Joyce? Then? Um, my friends and family started arriving 457 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: at Jen's condo and my brother immediately Um went to 458 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: I think it was a Kinkos and took a picture 459 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: of Jennifer and put it on. He created a flyer, 460 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: so that at four thirty on the day that she 461 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: didn't show up for work, we already had people standing 462 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: on the street corners of the intersection that Jennifer would 463 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: go through and come home from work, So we already 464 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: had people passing out her flyers. The other interesting thing 465 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: we blanketed her condo complex. Now it was the apartment 466 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:15,479 Speaker 1: to condo conversion, but we every car, every door, every 467 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: mail box station, we take flyers. What I think is 468 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: extremely noteworthy is the next morning, probably two thirds of 469 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: the workers didn't show up. Now, we found out during 470 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: the course of the investigation that the complex was knowingly 471 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: letting workers and many of whom were illegal, stay in 472 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: empty apartments that hadn't gone through the conversion yet. And 473 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: I think that when we blanketed that complex with Flyers. 474 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: I think that they bolted and that's why they didn't 475 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: show up for work the next nor the subsequent days. 476 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: There was only a small portion of the crew. I 477 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: gotta tell you something, Joyce, when you just said that, 478 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: I got this horrible feeling in my chest, in my stomach. 479 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: I just I've looked at this case so many times. 480 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: I just believe very strongly that one of those workers 481 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: is involved in her disappearance. It's not the boyfriend, it's 482 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: not the boss, it's not the neighbor next door, it's 483 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: it's so many things over the years, and from my 484 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: initial investigation into Jennifer's disappearance, I really believe that. So 485 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: let me just see if I can rule out who 486 00:32:51,720 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: were potential potential persons of interest Joyce and my When 487 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: this initially happened, I initially went to thinking that it 488 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: was one of the workers. For a while I thought 489 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: I could she have been human traffic. I go back 490 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: and forth, but I still say that whatever happened occurred 491 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: from by one of the works. Now, why why is that? Drew? 492 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: What evidence with me? Drew and Joyce, Kesie, Jennifer's mom 493 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: and dad, Sean gurd from the wildly popular Unconcluded podcast 494 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: and renowned forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and author A 495 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet drew what indicators do we have 496 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: that it's not the boyfriend, it's not the boss, it's 497 00:33:54,320 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: not the delivery pizza delivery guy, it's not the unit manager. 498 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: Were they ruled out? If so, why well, they're not 499 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,479 Speaker 1: ruling out anyone right now, and I don't think we 500 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: can rule out anyone right now. However, over the years, 501 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: when you start digging into every single we probably have 502 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: four or five people that we've put in situations where 503 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: well could be and you take the time, um, personally 504 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: as well as hopefully law enforcement, which I don't know 505 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: what they do, um, but you hope that they take 506 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: the time to truly go through each and every one 507 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: of these people, and not only once. But when you 508 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: look at the opportunity, I think you can pin it 509 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 1: down to two or three people, and then you start 510 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: breaking them apart and you look at more opportunity and realistically, 511 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: in the end, the most opportunity that someone we believe 512 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: I think had to take her would be construct option 513 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: someone there there's too many of them. There's too many illegals, 514 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: and there's too many, you know, Nancy, I think we 515 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: know how trafficking works. Um. Sometimes when you get into 516 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: this country, you have a bill to pay, and you 517 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 1: have to pay more when you get to this country. 518 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: And maybe it was just someone working there that said, 519 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: there's what you want. She's right there, she's alone. She 520 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: comes in this time, she goes out that time. There 521 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: she is and that's all you need from a construction worker. 522 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: Because I truly do believe that Jennifer was trafficked or 523 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: attempted trafficking m because of absolutely she's banished. And when 524 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: you put million dollar rewards out several times, half million, 525 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: quarter million, hundred thousand, whatever, and nothing comes out of 526 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: that area. Nothing. It's people. People didn't know the person 527 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: who came in and did the job and did the 528 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: work that was needed. So but I do believe that 529 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: it was someone on that campus, on on her home 530 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: premises that said, there's the one you want. Now, why 531 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: is it? Joyce? Do you agree with that theory? You 532 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 1: know on any given day, I do, because how we 533 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: know that aliens didn't at the abduct John Jennifer. So 534 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: I I don't I agree with Drew on some days 535 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 1: that that's what happened, and on other days when my 536 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: mind goes to the really dark, dark places, I think 537 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: that it was just some construction workers that, for whatever reason, 538 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: decided that Jennifer should be taken. And it defies my 539 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: logic because if she was murdered, wouldn't we have found 540 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: her by now, wouldn't we have found some clothes? I mean, 541 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: other than the car being found two days after she 542 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: was subducted, nothing of hers has been found or used. 543 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the car. The vehicle. 544 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: To Sean gur joining me from podcast unconcluded, Sean, tell 545 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,879 Speaker 1: me about the discovery of Jennifer's vehicle. Yeah, so, I mean, 546 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 1: like Joyce said, it was a couple of days after 547 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: her disappearance and just about a mile down the road 548 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 1: at Miss Huntington's the green her car was sound, and 549 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: it was on video. There was a grainy video, and 550 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: I think the police probably were thinking they got lucky 551 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: because of that video. But as I'm sure you're aware 552 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: that the video and of being really not very helpful 553 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,839 Speaker 1: because there's a bar in front of this person's case 554 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,479 Speaker 1: in every frame of the video, and then the video 555 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 1: is kind of every every half second or every second 556 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: eclips like stoages combined together instead of a fluid video. Um, 557 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: but just Joyce, you have told me this before. Just 558 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: I mean, the most incredibly lucky criminal of time to 559 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: walk through that video for thirty seconds and not one 560 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: single shot of their face and and I'm necessarily lucky 561 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:37,280 Speaker 1: for them and just incredibly unfortunate forever. Just to recap 562 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: on who Jennifer is. She graduated Vivian Gaither High School, Tampa, Florida. 563 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: She attended University Central Florida in Orlando. She graduated with 564 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: great grades with a degree in finance. She became a 565 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: member of a very exclusive sorority, in fact, the first 566 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 1: sorority ever founded on US soil, a d Pie Alpha 567 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: Delta Pi sorority. In fact, her sorority has led many 568 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: many volunteer searches to try to find Jennifer now. Um. 569 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: She had recently bought the condo and she was working 570 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 1: at an investment time share company. She was a finance manager. 571 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: She had been on vacation in St. Croix. She got 572 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: back safely. After she got back, she drove straight to 573 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: her home and while she went first to her boyfriend's home, 574 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: and then she came home to her condo that very 575 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 1: same day. Now, let's figure this out. She was last 576 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: seen the evening of six pm, leaving her place of employment. Okay, 577 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: she made several calls to family and friends, the rat 578 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: last round ten pm to her boyfriend. She would always 579 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: call our text her boyfriend every morning on her way 580 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: to work. Okay, she did not that morning. We know that, 581 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: and that dovetails with everything Drew and Joyce Kessie are 582 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: telling us. Drew says she always picked up the phone 583 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: when family called. She did not pick up the phone 584 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,959 Speaker 1: that morning. Her parents get there. It's a two hour 585 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: drive through hell for the parents. They get there, they 586 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: drop everything and go. They immediately noticed her car is gone. 587 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 1: But they get inside they see nothings out of the ordinary. 588 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 1: And there was even a wet towel in the bathroom. 589 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:40,799 Speaker 1: From the bathroom, clothes laid out. The flyers go out everywhere. 590 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:46,360 Speaker 1: There was a massive search. I remember joining the investigation 591 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: and publicizing Jennifer's disappearance over and over and over. There 592 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,359 Speaker 1: were horses, there were boats, there were a TVs, there 593 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: were helicopters, volunteer search, professional searches, you name it, right, 594 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: now is still do not know where is Jennifer the car? 595 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Let's talk about her vehicle where it 596 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: turned up? Why what does that mean to us? Why 597 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 1: are you and Joe Scott? Yeah, the car is significant 598 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: in the fact that it was someone had access to 599 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: the keys. I'd like to ask Drew and Joyce, was this, uh, 600 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: this this car that that she had? First off, what 601 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: type of car was it? Chevy Malibu? Chevy Malibu? Okay? 602 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: What happened to the car after it was discovered relative 603 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: to your family and the police. The police actually came 604 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: to the condo. We were all there, including Jennifer's boyfriend, 605 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 1: and they said, Rob Allen, who is Jennifer's boyfriend? You're 606 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,440 Speaker 1: coming with us. We're going over to the car. Okay, 607 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: hass easy to stay here. They wanted they wanted to 608 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 1: see when they opened the trunk if Jennifer was going 609 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 1: to be there. In his reaction obviously when they got there, Um, 610 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: they did ask him was anything unusual within the car 611 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: from what he would see, and he did notice that 612 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,479 Speaker 1: the driver's seat was farther back than what Jennifer would 613 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: have used and in a different position. Outside of that, 614 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: he didn't see anything different. Well, we know that her 615 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 1: car was seen on the knees. People see the car 616 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: on the news as a Chevy Malibu, and a person 617 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 1: living at a nearby apartment complex called the police and 618 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: said they think they see the car outside their apartment 619 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: has been there for several days. Cops get there, it's 620 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: Jennifer's car, it's photographed, it's hall to the crime lab. 621 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: I personally believe that they processed it correctly. Police get 622 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,879 Speaker 1: all the video surveillance they can, and they see an 623 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:04,800 Speaker 1: unidentified person and parking it, walking away. And this is important. 624 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 1: The person never looked back. Why is that important because 625 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: we never saw the face. But I believe it as 626 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,760 Speaker 1: an adult male. Now let me go to Joyce. Cassie, 627 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 1: what do you I'm sure you've seen the video over 628 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: and over and over, and shawnger was right, there's an 629 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: obstruction to the video. You can't get a very brief glance. 630 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: What do you make of that video? Joyce? What do 631 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,560 Speaker 1: you believe you see? You know, I just kind of 632 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: got a little deja vu of um the first time 633 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: that the police showed us the still photos, and my 634 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: initial reaction was it looks like a teenager. Because the 635 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 1: arms and feet were long, they looked disproportionate to the 636 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 1: rest of the body. And I remember that with my 637 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: immediate reaction, and I guess it's you know, I've been 638 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: a nurse for forty years. I don't know if that's 639 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 1: why I zeroed in on that or what. But um, 640 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: in my heart of hearts, do I think that the 641 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: person who parked her car is the one who um 642 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 1: harmed Jennifer. I don't know. I don't know. There's a 643 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: part of me that feels that that person was just 644 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: never having looked back over their shoulder. I can't help 645 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: but think that that person may have been paid to 646 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: park the car. I'm looking at the person right now, 647 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,920 Speaker 1: and all you can see, believe me, guys, is saying 648 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,279 Speaker 1: that the guy's face it it's a guy is obstructed. 649 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,239 Speaker 1: He parks the car, and he's walking along behind a 650 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,240 Speaker 1: black wrought iron fence, the type you would see around 651 00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: a kind of community to make sure people didn't trespass us. 652 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: And the few seconds he's happening, he happens to walk 653 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,720 Speaker 1: by where those the actual gate, and so his face 654 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,400 Speaker 1: is kind of obscured by all the black metal. What 655 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,240 Speaker 1: do you call those poles from yes, the poles, the poles, 656 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,760 Speaker 1: the spindles. You can't All I can see are his legs, 657 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,560 Speaker 1: his arms, and a tiny bit of the side of 658 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,960 Speaker 1: his head. That that's it. Even I, who desperately want 659 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: to make out who it is, I can't tell. His 660 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 1: face is obscured by the the fencing. Um. And it 661 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:44,400 Speaker 1: was taking a photo every three seconds. So Drew Cassey, 662 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: when you learned that you've the car has been found 663 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: and that there is video surveillance, I know your heart 664 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,600 Speaker 1: leapt than what happened. Um. We were shown, obviously the 665 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 1: pictures by the police and they asked us, does this 666 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 1: look familiar to any you know, to any of you? 667 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,960 Speaker 1: Was like, no, not a clue. Um, then are our 668 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: detectives at that time? Uh? First said that, Well, we 669 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,160 Speaker 1: said let's put this out. I mean, somebody's got into 670 00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 1: this person. Let's let's find them. And our detectives first 671 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,799 Speaker 1: detectives said, there's no way anybody's going to see this film, Like, 672 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 1: what do you mean? It's like, nope, nobody's seeing this 673 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: film because when we catch the person, and that's how 674 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,160 Speaker 1: we're going to catch them. And after I think it 675 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,600 Speaker 1: was a week er what have you with no leads? 676 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,080 Speaker 1: And we're twelve and a half years later and we're like, 677 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:41,239 Speaker 1: no leads. They finally changed UM Detectives and the new 678 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,839 Speaker 1: detective said, we're going to put this out and they 679 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: did and it's still a mystery from that From that day, 680 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 1: we've NASA has enhanced that film. The film that you 681 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,360 Speaker 1: see is the enhanced film from NASA UM and also 682 00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: I believe Target of Walmart, they're they're missing person department 683 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: got to the film too, and that's the best we 684 00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,839 Speaker 1: can do. To this day, we've tried to improve that 685 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,840 Speaker 1: film and it's just no such thing as improving that film. 686 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: What we have is the best we're going have. They 687 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 1: tried to get an estimate drew regarding the height and 688 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 1: the weight that the person based on the what's around them, 689 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:24,759 Speaker 1: like a tree or offense post. Yeah, FBI came out 690 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,879 Speaker 1: and did and did a lot of tests on that 691 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,759 Speaker 1: as well as the police, and they came up with 692 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: the person between five ft three and five ft six. 693 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: Since then, Orlando police have gone back out and did 694 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,640 Speaker 1: their own and what have you, and honestly, we have 695 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: to throw that height out. It has been a discrepancy 696 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: since it's been done, so we have to take that 697 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,880 Speaker 1: three five ft three to five ft sa. We just 698 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,840 Speaker 1: got to take that out of our minds and we 699 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: just have to say, that's the person we really don't know, 700 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:06,800 Speaker 1: and that's h We also know that valuables were found 701 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,840 Speaker 1: inside her black Chevy Malibu, and that suggests the robbery 702 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,719 Speaker 1: was not a motive. We also know the vehicle was 703 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,920 Speaker 1: parked that day around noon. The same day Jennifer goes missing. 704 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: A search dog track descent from the car back to 705 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:30,040 Speaker 1: Jennifer's apartment complex, right or wrong. That leads police to 706 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,919 Speaker 1: think the suspect went back to Jennifer's apartment parking lot 707 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:40,399 Speaker 1: after leaving the car. Investigators also think the car had 708 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,640 Speaker 1: been wiped down. Who would think to do that? Items 709 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:50,080 Speaker 1: known missing her iPod, her purse, her briefcase, her keys, 710 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,400 Speaker 1: her cell phone, and the outfit that she was wearing. 711 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,279 Speaker 1: In fact, investigators could not paying her cell phone as 712 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:03,240 Speaker 1: it remained off, and her banking account was never used. 713 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:09,279 Speaker 1: So what does that tell us? Joyce Cassie tells me 714 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: that Jennifer was the object, perhaps of someone's desire. Because see, 715 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:28,080 Speaker 1: things don't disappear. People don't disappear and it's just so painful, 716 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:36,400 Speaker 1: so raw to think that all of these years later, 717 00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 1: we still don't know what happened. Let me ask you this, Joyce, 718 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: do you believe that Jennifer is alive somewhere today? I 719 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:53,360 Speaker 1: have to believe that, Nancy. I have a lot of hope. 720 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,279 Speaker 1: I have more hope than I have fear. But if 721 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,080 Speaker 1: I didn't have hope, I don't think that I would 722 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:11,040 Speaker 1: be functional. So I hope. I'm not a stupid person. 723 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:16,760 Speaker 1: I understand that statistically the chances of Jennifer being found 724 00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 1: alive are slim, But I'm going to say to you, 725 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:27,360 Speaker 1: one mother to another, miracles happened, Nancy. Who is to 726 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,120 Speaker 1: say that Jennifer is not going to be the next 727 00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:35,560 Speaker 1: miracle who's found? J c. Dugard. It was nineteen years 728 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,239 Speaker 1: and she was found. You had those three girls in 729 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:51,120 Speaker 1: Ohio fourteen years. So I I oftentimes think to myself, 730 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 1: what kind of mother would I be if I were 731 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,880 Speaker 1: to just go on with thinking that Jennifer has been murdered? 732 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,560 Speaker 1: And then how would I feel if it turns out 733 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,720 Speaker 1: that she's a lucky miracle and its found a life. 734 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:17,600 Speaker 1: So I prefer, Joyce, miracles do happen They happen every 735 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: single day, and I want that miracle in Jennifer's case. 736 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,399 Speaker 1: The tip line to help us find Jennifer is four 737 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:33,759 Speaker 1: zero seven two four six three nine to repeat four 738 00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:39,440 Speaker 1: zero seven two four six three nine eight two. Please 739 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:45,920 Speaker 1: speak with Detective Teresa Sprague. Miracles happen and we are 740 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,440 Speaker 1: asking for a miracle today. If you have any information, 741 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:56,279 Speaker 1: please dial four zero seven two four six three nine two. 742 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:03,359 Speaker 1: Our prayers go on Nancy Grace and Crime Stories signing off, 743 00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: goodbye friend. Did you know a recent law can leave 744 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:16,200 Speaker 1: your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If 745 00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,640 Speaker 1: you've turned on the news lately, you know the internet 746 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,280 Speaker 1: has created a dangerous new world. 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