1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: Well, there's two ways to look at it. Either a 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: you say this is a total mess, or you can say, well, 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: this is good. It's amazing what happens when some conservatives 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: stand up for their principles, and we might even get 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: a different speaker the House and Kevin McCarthy. The headlines 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: all over the country are exactly what you would expect 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: this after Kevin McCarthy lost his third ballot the House 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: and chaos is how CNN has it with no speaker elected, 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: all business on hold. Democrats are loving this moment, cherishing 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: this moment and saying, look at how the Republicans are 11 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: in quote disarray. Is this disarray worth something for a 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: twenty four hour old? Yes, I believe that it is. 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: Now the House has decided to adjourn the headlines read 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: there's quote no end in sight? Is that actually true? Well, 15 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: joining me now to talk about the history of this 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: and actually what's happened as Carry Pickett, she's a senior 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: congressional reporter for the Washington Times and a good friend 18 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: of mine. Carrie, I appreciate you coming on. I know 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: you're very busy right now as a senior congressional reporter 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: for the Washington times. This hasn't happened in literally a 21 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: hundred years. Put a little bit of historical perspective into 22 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: this now, and then we'll get into the modern kind 23 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: of day politics of it. That's right. The House speaker's election, 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, it has not required multiple ballots in 25 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: one hundred years. Now. House historians they've recorded fourteen instances, 26 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: many of them in the years after the Civil War, 27 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: in which the speaker election required numerous ballot rounds, and 28 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: the last time at the start of the sixty eighth 29 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: Congress in nineteen twenty three. That was when Frederick Huntington 30 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: Galet he's a Massachusetts Republican. He was elected on the 31 00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: ninth ballot. Okay, Now, the five hold outs against McCarthy, 32 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: you know, they're demanding really key changes to the House 33 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: rules that would take power away from the speaker and 34 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: giving more governing authority to the committees and rank and 35 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: file lawmakers. You know, for example, one would require the 36 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: reinstatement of a rule that would allow lawmakers a vote 37 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: to replace the House speaker at mid Congress. And look, 38 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: you understand the so McCarthy has been pretty reluctant to 39 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,239 Speaker 1: negotiate with these uh five holdouts out of concern that 40 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: it will embolden this group to make even more demands, 41 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: even even after if he was elected speaker. Now, as 42 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: we've seen, Ben, it isn't just five holdouts after a 43 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: three rounds. So far, we've seen like, you know, nineteen 44 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: members come out against McCarthy, voting for mister Biggs of 45 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: of Arizona as well as mister Jordan of Ohio. So 46 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: you know, he has a lot of negotiations to do 47 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: right now. You know, you look at these these twenty 48 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: that have basically said, hey, we'll go with Jim Jordan, 49 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: for example, we're done, you know, with Kevin McCarthy, and 50 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying now it looks like 51 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy may be done. He says, no, I'm not. 52 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: The adjournment does it help or hurt? Because the early 53 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: morning argument when they got there Tuesday morning was hey, 54 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: if it takes one hundred votes, Kevin McCarthy said, we're 55 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: gonna do it in a hundred votes. If it takes 56 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty, we're gonna stay. This wasn't that 57 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: many votes that this was, you know, after three times 58 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: they said, okay, we're gonna adjourn now so people understand 59 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: why there was an adjournment. There was a lot of 60 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: members of Congress that have their family members there. Usually 61 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: you elact the Speaker of the House, then you go 62 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: and take your pictures with your family for your swearing 63 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: in the pictures and all of that. Who lie your 64 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: family's there. And there were a lot of members that, all, right, 65 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: we're not getting anywhere on Tuesday. We know that, let's 66 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: adjourn till Wednesday at noon. Let's go take these pictures 67 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: and kind of do this with our family and have 68 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: this moment in our personal careers or we're becoming members 69 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: of Congress. But there's a lot of people that say, Okay, 70 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: this could be bad news for Ken mccarthury because it 71 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: gives more time for people behind the scenes to have 72 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: conversations that maybe they couldn't have had while they were 73 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: still all sitting there on the floor of the House. 74 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: I know it's it's a real steam because for the 75 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: past century, every speaker has been able to swear in members, 76 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: or every new speaker has been able to swear in 77 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: members right away, and they've been able to gather with 78 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: their small children in their spouses on the floor and 79 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: these members were weren't able to do that this time around, 80 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: which the shame. But look, one of the things that 81 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: I was telling some reporters, I'm like, this is kind 82 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: of interesting. Uh. You get to tell sort of new 83 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: members and some new reporters it usually isn't like this. Yeah. 84 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: When when I January sixth happened, it was sort of 85 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: similar in the sense of it usually isn't like this, 86 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: and you know, this is this is where we are today. Yeah. 87 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: My guest with me is uh is carry biggest singer 88 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: congressional reporter for the Washington Times. Carry. Let's talk about 89 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: the politics of this now, Tip Rory. Rory, who who 90 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: was there. He said, Look, the reason why I'm saying 91 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: no to Ken McCarthy is I want there to be 92 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 1: up or down votes on on basic things amendments. We 93 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: haven't been doing this. Great example was this massive spending 94 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,119 Speaker 1: bill we just had that they rammed down our throats. 95 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: They wouldn't let us separate things out and debated things 96 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: on it their merit. A great example of that when 97 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: it comes to the merit was the Ukraine funding. He said, Look, 98 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: I support Ukraine against Russia, but I think we should 99 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: have a grand debate on the funding for Ukraine. It 100 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: shouldn't be thrown into this omnibus spending bill the way 101 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: that it was just done. And he said, this is 102 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: the problem with that he has. He wants these things 103 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: to be debated on their own merit. There's a lot 104 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: of people in America that hear that and go, okay, 105 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: that makes sense. Chip Rory's a guy that said, all right, 106 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to nominate Jim Jordan on the second ballot, 107 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: which is what he did, saying I should say excuse 108 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: me on the third ballot, which is what he did. 109 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: And he's saying, I'm I think the American people are 110 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: ready for transparency back in government. I'm not here making 111 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: ridiculous demands for me to sit on certain committees or 112 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: things like that. I'm saying, we need to go back 113 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: to how do we pay for this and where's our 114 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: money going? I want transparency and government. Is that where 115 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: Jim Jordan can big up some steam in the early 116 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: morning hours an overnight Tuesday and the Wednesday. Maybe because 117 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: that a similar reason that I heard from uh Ralph 118 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: Norman of South Carolina. He does not like the spending 119 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: problems that we have seen very recently and that is 120 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: what's keeping him a no on McCarthy as well. Another 121 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: issue too, by the way, Ben is uh, you have 122 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: a number of of these holdouts, number of these conservatives. 123 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: They don't like the whole idea that you have Republican 124 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: leadership who uh kind of gets involved with these primaries 125 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: and they put their money down and they onto a 126 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: winners and losers. They sort of pick who they would 127 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: like to push forward as opposed to just staying out 128 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: of the primaries altogether. And we saw that in the 129 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: Upper Chamber with miss McConnell and a number of of 130 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: these conservatives who ended up kind of squeaking through or 131 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: even overwhelmingly making it through. They saw how the money 132 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: was us spent this time around as far as Goop 133 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: leadership in the House, and they're sort of upset about 134 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: that as well. You know, when you look at McCarthy, 135 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: he did make a statement to CNN where he said 136 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: there is no scenario where I drop out. He really 137 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: seemed to I think um mismanaged this vote. Early on 138 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: in the day, he had meetings with some of those 139 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: that said they were gonna be nos. He went to 140 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: the floor knowing he didn't have the votes to become 141 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: the speaker, and he basically said, well, no one else 142 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: does either, so I'm going to get this by default. 143 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: That backfired. Was this a big miscalculation for him? Well, 144 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: he was hoping from what I understand that he was 145 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 1: apparently making a deal with some Democrats that that they 146 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: would simply just leave the floor and lower the threshold 147 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: right where he wouldn't where he wouldn't need two hundred 148 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: and eighteen votes. Maybe explained explain that aspect of this vote, 149 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: because this is something that that Kevin McCarthy was also 150 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: thinking about. From what I was told that they were saying, look, 151 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: if this did go to one hundred votes, eventually some 152 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: Democrats would lead because of like, look, we know we're 153 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: not gonna get it. That would lower the threshold on 154 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: the vote count, so therefore you could get it. Explain 155 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: at the math on that and that strategy, because it 156 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: very well could come into play on Wednesday. So apparently, 157 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: h you know, like a McCarthy was making a deal 158 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: with Democrats to leave the floor at some point and 159 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: lower the threshold from two eighteen to a number that 160 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: he could actually attain. However, you know, you had a 161 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: number of these conservative Republican holdouts, these anti Kevin McCarthy 162 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: types who caught wind of this, and they ended up asking, like, 163 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: you know, squad members like AOC say, hey, what's this 164 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: about you guys leaving the floor, and and these AOC 165 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: types are like, uh, we had no plans to do that. So, 166 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: you know that kind of blew up in his face. Well, 167 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: let's talk about if he doesn't get these votes. I mean, 168 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: they say it's an all out war now, but if 169 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: you don't have the votes, you don't have the votes. 170 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: Is there real talk now about coalitioning behind a Jim 171 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: Jordan or would he still be short? And then do 172 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: you get yourself in a situation where there's a moderate 173 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: that all of a sudden comes out of this um? 174 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: You know, I asked you had a Bob Good Republican 175 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: from Virginia, and he is once again a never Kevin 176 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: McCarthy conservative, and he's the one who's always been talking about, oh, 177 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: we have a candidate, we have a consensus candidate, and 178 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: we're keeping this candidate, you know, mysterious until until the 179 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: second round. And I asked him like, Okay, where is 180 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: this mysterious candidate that you're supposed to unveil, and he 181 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: dodged that question completely. So now we know that they 182 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: never had a consensus candidate to begin with, or that 183 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: person just dropped out. So as far as you can see, 184 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: there is no consensus candidate as of now. Kerry, I 185 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: want to ask you about the politics of this when 186 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: it deals with Donald Trump. What's very interesting about the 187 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: vote that we witnessed on Tuesday was the people that 188 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: were saying no to Kevin McCarthy were very much the 189 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: Maga Republicans, and yet Donald Trump has not said anything 190 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: on his true social about this so far. He didn't 191 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: seem to do anything really to help during the day 192 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: that we know of Kevin McCarthy, he's kind of stepped back. Why. 193 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 1: Very excellent question there, Ben. In fact, if you recall, 194 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: Donald Trump did throw his support behind Kevin McCarthy early 195 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: on for speaker okay, and he did sort of like 196 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: do a deal with him in regards to you know, hey, 197 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: you support me, I'll support you. However, very recently, as 198 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: you very much mentioned, he has not said anything in 199 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: regards to Kevin McCarthy's speakership situation. And I think it's 200 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: because Trump has, you know, wants to be known as 201 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: supporting a winner. Okay, and I spoke with Congressman Kent 202 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: Buck about this. Ken Buck is a Colorado Republican and 203 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: he thinks that this, you know, it may have helped 204 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: McCarthy maybe in the beginning, but it may have backfired ultimately. 205 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: And that's where he sort of stuck at this point. Yeah, 206 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: stuck is a great way of putting it. Let's talk 207 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: about Bobert and Matt Gags. They made it very clear 208 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: early on they were not going to go for Kevin McCarthy. 209 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: They kept asking for things that some people said was 210 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: just unrealistic. Others said, look they didn't. You know, they've 211 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: they've been trying to screw those two over for the 212 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: Republican establishment for a long time. Didn't support them the 213 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: way they shouldn't their reelection bids. Boboard almost lost her seat, 214 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: uh in Congress. Matt Gates has kind of been hung 215 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: out to dry, some say, others say, what's his own 216 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: doing when you look at those two individuals and they say, 217 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: this is just spite what's happening right now, and they're 218 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: putting the you know, they're they're they're they're empowering the 219 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: Democrats now with twenty people going for Jim Jordan's, can 220 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: you really say that anymore about them? Are they maybe yeah, 221 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: maybe they're maybe they're ultramagat right, But but are they 222 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: more principal than maybe some of these other people are, 223 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: and and honestly more than they thought they were going 224 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: to be? Um Matt Gates, his vendetta against uh uh 225 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: McCarthy is more personal than anything else. Explain it. Explain 226 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: that because a lot of people don't know the history there. Okay, Uh, 227 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: I think that that you have uh Matt Gates who 228 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: just never really felt that he was supported by uh 229 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: by McCarthy when when when he felt that he was 230 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: under siege by a lot of the Democrats and as 231 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: well and when he was an under under investigations exactly 232 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: as well as uh Liz Cheney, when Liz Cheney was 233 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: also attacking him as well. So so when you had 234 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: the Democrats end Liz Cheney who was attacking him, uh, 235 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: he didn't feel that, uh, that you had McCarthy who 236 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: had his back, and he sort of like felt like 237 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: McCarthy was start of stabbing him in the back. And 238 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: then when like uh and then when elections start came around, uh, 239 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: He pointed out, as I previously mentioned, that McCarthy was 240 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: sort of giving uh well, start picking and choosing losers 241 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: in the primaries, and that's where he ended up saying, 242 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: you know what, I've had enough McCarthy. And that's where 243 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: some of the history, off the top of my head 244 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: kind of comes from. I want to ask you about this. 245 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich did an interview with his 246 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: good buddy over at Fox Business Channel, Larry Couglo a 247 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: moment ago. This is what he had to say about 248 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: this battle that were it's historic, one hundred year battle. 249 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: We haven't seen this in a hundred years. Here's how 250 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: he had put it, and I want to get your reaction. 251 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: I was impressed that even when the rebels decided to 252 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: consolidate around Jim Jordan, who of course had just nominated 253 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, the number of votes didn't change. They didn't 254 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: get any new votes. So I'm looking to the third, fourth, 255 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: and fifth ballots to see what's gonna happen. My guess 256 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: is that McCarthy, in fact, will in the end be speaker. 257 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: I wrote a newsletter recently pointing out that it was 258 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: Kevin or Chaos. Because I mean, if for any reason 259 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: the radicals were to somehow be able to drive him out, 260 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: they would have established a precedent that anybody else can 261 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: do the same thing. Lincoln warned about this in his 262 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: first inaugural and said, the problem with secession is once 263 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: you established that right, everybody can secede from everybody. Well, 264 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: the five who started this fight have now given every 265 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: other member of the House Republican Party the moral right 266 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: to go out and find four friends and have the 267 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: same chaos. And I think that's why the conference has 268 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: been overwhelmingly solid, and they're still overwhelmingly solid even with 269 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: Jim Jordan's name, and Jordan is certainly a very serious person. 270 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: The numbers didn't change at all. They got nineteen, Kevin 271 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: got two hundred and two. That means he's getting better 272 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: than ten votes for every vote the rebels can put together. 273 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: And I think they have no endgame. These people can't 274 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: play tic tac toe. And I think that's part of 275 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: the problem is they've gotten themselves that like the dog 276 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: that caught the bus. They've gotten themselves in this position. 277 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: They can't get out of it. And if Kevin is 278 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: prepared to calmly and cheerfully wait them out. At some 279 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: point their districts are going to start calling him and saying, 280 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: you know, what are you doing? Why are you ruining 281 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: the Republican Party. I got to ask this question. And 282 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 1: you've been there a long time in Washington, Carry You've 283 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: been covering this. You know, he said, at some point 284 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,959 Speaker 1: Americans will start calling saying, what are you doing? You're 285 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: ruining the Republican Party. I disagree with that opinion, and 286 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: I have a lot of respect from New English. I 287 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: think the majority of Republican voters are would overwhelmingly supported 288 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: Jim Jordan over a Kevin McCarthy. I think Kevin McCarthy 289 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: is very much more the establishment GOP, the rhinos the 290 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: quote swamp. I think there's a run that would call 291 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: and say, get behind a Jim Jordan. But does he 292 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: really have a chance in your opinion, or do you say, 293 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: you know what, Nut's probably right at the end of 294 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: this thing, Kevin McCarthy's still be a speaker. Um. I 295 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: think that you had knew who has you know really 296 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: forged this us this strong sort of relationship with McCarthy 297 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: right now, And keep in mind you know Knew himself. 298 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: I mean you had like a coup, so to speak, 299 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: a political coup that, like you know, pretty much uh, 300 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: he had to deal with back in his day when 301 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: he was speaker. So you know, there's some sort of 302 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: recollections going on in his mind when he had to 303 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: sort of deal with these factions when he was a 304 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: speaker back in his day. So I think that's kind 305 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: of going on right now as far as he's a concerned. 306 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: That being said, Uh, if you have enough people who 307 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: end up falling away from uh McCarthy, and look some 308 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: already are, then Jordan could very well uh end up 309 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: getting enough votes. But until then, I think I do 310 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: think the longer it goes on, it could very well happen. 311 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: It's gonna be very interesting. I appreciate your time. Kerry Pickett, 312 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: Senior Congression reporter at the Watching Times. Check her out. 313 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: She's on Twitter and all the other social media platforms 314 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: as well. Thank you for spending some time with us 315 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: and explaining this to us as you're alive there in 316 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: Dcake here. Thank you. Is obviously a historic day. It 317 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: has not happened in a hundred years. There is no 318 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: speaker the House right now because Kevin McCarthy did not 319 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: get the votes needed to become the speaker. Joining me 320 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: now to talk about the politics of this. The man 321 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: that served in Congress with a lot of people involved 322 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: in this scenario is former Congressman Doug Collins. Doug, I 323 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on. Let's talk about how did we 324 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: get to this point. I am still honestly shocked that 325 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy took this vote to the floor knowing he 326 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: didn't have the votes to win somehow, assuming that he'd 327 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: eventually just get there then clearly getting it wrong. Are 328 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: you as shocked as I am by the political miscalculation here? Yes? 329 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: And no, Ben, Ben, it's good to be on with you. 330 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: I think you have to take it too far. Number one. 331 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: Kevin has been wanting this job for so long, and 332 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: he has been denied it once by a group that 333 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: back then, frankly didn't they were. He let it go 334 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: before it came to a vote or anywhere else, and 335 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: he stepped aside. That's how we end up with Paul Ryan. 336 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: I think at this point he has felt like over 337 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: the past few years, he's done everything he possibly can do. 338 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: If he'd raised more money than any speaker we've you know, 339 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: any leader we've ever had. He elected most of these people. 340 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: It's crazy, as some of these people who are voting 341 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: against him now he actually helped to get elected elected. 342 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: And I think he just did the point. I'm just 343 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: simply saying, I've got no other place to go. It's 344 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: either I go to the floor and I die on 345 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: the floor, or you know, either way, that's the more 346 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, acceptable thing for him too. I am shocked 347 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: that he didn't have more conversation. I thought he would 348 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: have this if he was gonna have it locked up 349 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: here to try to have it locked up before. But 350 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: now you've gotten into a situation, Ben where you got 351 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: people who it's really, frankly and not about policy anymore. 352 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: It's about the fact that they simply just don't want 353 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy and they're willing to stick to the Gunden. 354 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: As long as five of them hold out, Kevin can 355 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: never become secret. Yeah, And it seems that the bullying 356 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: on of Kevin McCarthy kind of like you're gonna step 357 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: in line and I've got enough people around me that 358 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: no one else is going to get this thing really backfired. 359 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: I talked to one of the five confidentially and they said, 360 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: the arrogance is what got him in trouble is he 361 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: treated us like we were beneath him, and that because 362 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: he had virtually virtually all the votes needed, that we 363 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: would just shut up and go away, and they dug 364 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: in even harder. Yeah, oh yeah, and it's brilliancy. This 365 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: is where Republicans and Democrats are really different. Pelosi and 366 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: the Democratic where hip have been doing this for years, um, 367 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, keeping their folks in line, threatening them with uh, 368 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: you know, lack of resources, or threatened them with the 369 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: primary or whatever, you know, and on our side, it's 370 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: just that's just never been a case. And then when 371 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: it has happened, you know, Republicans, you know, get upset. 372 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: And I think what happened here is is Kevin you 373 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: there's an old thing in life. You cannot negotiate with 374 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: somebody who's willing to shoot the hostage. And by meaning 375 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: that there's nothing you can do. You either give them 376 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: what they want or they'll never agree to you. And 377 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: I think that I think he just misread this with 378 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: the five and probably a little bit more, probably eight 379 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: and ten that just said, look, Ken, you're unless you 380 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: give us exactly what we want, we underlying where don't 381 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: trust you. And I think that's going to become the 382 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: theme out of this is at the end of the day, 383 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: they said, chip Freud said exactly that I don't trust you. Yeah, 384 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: I don't trust you. And look, chip Frey, I want 385 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: to be clear here because when he nominated Jim Jordan 386 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: on that third ballot and gave his speech, he made 387 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: it clear, we just want there to be transparency in government, which, 388 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: by the way, as the majority of Republicans are going 389 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: to listen to this, are gonna agree with us. He said, Look, 390 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: I wanted there to be amendments, for example, that are 391 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: voted on based on their merit, not crammed into one 392 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: massive bill. He referred to the Ukraine Ukraine funding that 393 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: was in the Omnibust spinning bill. He said that should 394 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: have been debated on its own merit, Greek completely. And 395 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: I think this is here's the problem. Some of what 396 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: they want, okay, and this is some of the things 397 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: that you're like you just said, are things that we 398 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: should have been doing or have been in the rules before. Again, 399 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: thus not trusting Kevin. We had seventy two hour prior 400 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: filing on bills. We had some of this other stuff 401 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: that is social move toward a more open amendment process, which, 402 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: by the way, the big dark secret is members want 403 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: that until it actually happens, and then it's it's really 404 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: an interesting play after that because it actually requires a 405 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: lot more time and effort than most of the members frankly, 406 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: and I'm just being blood here, are willing to give. 407 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: And but these are the problems that are out there 408 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: that could Yeah, I mean couldn't they thought there's no reason. 409 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: I mean again, I'm gonna say it being you and 410 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: I thought about it. I ain't so sick of the 411 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: Republicans and the Democrat acting as a September thirtieth as 412 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: a shock. That's when the budget is us. That's when 413 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: you got to have a spending bill. But why don't 414 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: you start in February getting it done? And instead they 415 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: run it late because it controls as long as the 416 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: later it is the leadership gets to decide. That's where 417 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: chipping them, I think, are right. Then it's left in 418 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: it into this, you know, we go into this all 419 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: of a sudden, the big bill about the motion to 420 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,959 Speaker 1: vay case. I'll give you a little secret here. It's 421 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: might be breaking news on New shop we were back 422 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: when they were trying to use that against John Bayner. 423 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: We had heard and I cannot prove this, but we've 424 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: heard it. I heard it from enough folks that the 425 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: Democrats were had basically back channel to say, look, we're 426 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: not going to allow this to happen, frankly because they 427 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: didn't want it to happen to them. So again, this 428 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: motion to vacates an idea that the sound really good, 429 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, you still got 430 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: to bring it to the floor and you still got 431 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: to people to vote for it. And granted they're in 432 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: a much better position to do it now with four 433 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: vote than say, back when we had thirty five vote margin. 434 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: But again, these are things that then most people don't understand, 435 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: and what they do understand is is that we want 436 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: to see Republicans do something. We want to see them 437 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: pass bills, we want to see them actually have conservative legislation. 438 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: And right now we're cleaning the day two of a 439 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighteenth Congress with Nancy Pelosi's splort staff 440 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: and everybody else still in control of Congress. Yeah, you'll 441 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: listen to those that kind of started this, and there's 442 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: some and they have reason to be angry. You know. 443 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: Represent Bobert barely won her reelection. She feels she was 444 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: hung out to drive by the establishment. Matt Gates feels 445 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: like he was disrespected and wasn't protected when people like 446 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: Liz Chenney came after him and the investigations, and that 447 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy didn't do enough and they're sticking it to McCarthy. 448 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: That's very clear. But Represented Bobert said this just moments 449 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: ago on Fox News. I want you to hear what 450 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: she had to say about Jim Jordan's saying he's the guy, 451 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: and then I'll get your reaction. How do you see 452 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: this ending? Can you see yourself voting for a consensus candidate? 453 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: Can you vote for Steve Scalize for example. I'm voting 454 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: for anyone who actually brings unity to the Republican Party 455 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: and helps get our country back on track and we 456 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 1: have to actually govern on the things that we campaigned 457 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,479 Speaker 1: right now. Our candidate is Jim Jordan. This is he 458 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: is a fighter, He is a leader. He may not 459 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: want it right now, but George Washington did not want 460 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: to be president. He did what was right for his country. 461 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: Jordan is the consensus candidate right now. He absolutely is. 462 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: And every time that he speaks up to defend Kevin McCarthy, 463 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: he actually just reaffirms why he would make a great speaker. 464 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: And if you heard from him that he does not 465 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: want it in any way, shape or form, what do 466 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: you say. I have heard that from him, And if 467 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: we have the numbers, then sorry, Jim Jordan, We're going 468 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: to make you do it's right for the country. We 469 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: love you, Okay. I mean, do you believe her? Or 470 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: is she full of crap? I mean, how do you? 471 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: I mean, is this say I barely won this my 472 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: last election. I'm gonna go down and burn the place 473 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: down the process. Well, I think it's I think it's Look, 474 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: it's it's again. Anybody who's already voted against McCarthy has 475 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: nothing to lose, Okay, because they've already set themselves outside 476 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: over two hundred plus of their own members. They're gonna 477 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: have trouble. You know. It's just that this is not 478 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: going to go here. This, this bandate that was ripped 479 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: open today is not going to heal anytime soon. The 480 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: understanding part here is Jim Jordan, Ben I will tell 481 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: you there's at least one hundred probable members, one hundred 482 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: and twenty five members who will never vote for Jim 483 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: Jordan for secrets period. It ain't happening. So when you 484 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: say that, why because of just a history mainly because 485 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: you know and I think mainly because going back through 486 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: history and times that many in the conference are just 487 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: not as uh as uh fightings spirit however you want 488 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: to put it. And Jim does not built those relationships 489 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: outside of the main part of his own committee or 490 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: the other Freedom Caucus. There's a lot to do with 491 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: This is the part that hard. It's hard for him extanding, 492 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: but sitting in with Serius, sitting those conference friends, it 493 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: is as much of a h is close to I 494 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: want to say military because I'm in the military. It's different, 495 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: but maybe a fraternity. It's it's you can be a 496 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: part of a tourney but not know everybody. You can 497 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: be a part of tourney but not really that many friends. 498 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes this is what Jim has been a great member 499 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,719 Speaker 1: at bringing up issues. He's a great member at investigating, 500 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: but he's never desired to legislate, and he's never desired 501 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: to leave the conference. He's desired to focus on investigations, 502 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: to dig in and go after what he has wanted 503 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: to investigate. There's a much bigger picture here when it 504 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: comes to being Speaker of the House, and whoever gets 505 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: this is in trouble. I mean they're they're in trouble. 506 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: And that's where I'm going to ask you. You look 507 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: at Kevin McCarthy's one of the thing for his long 508 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: he has been alive and knew what the speaker was. 509 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: You've got You've got a guy by the name of 510 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: Steve Scalise who a lot of people know his name 511 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: because unfortunately he was wounded in that attack when they 512 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: were preparing for that that baseball game, the congressional baseball 513 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: game several years back. He's liked by a lot of people. 514 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: He's a survivor in that sense. They're close friends. And 515 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: people keep saying, maybe he's the quote consensus candidate. If 516 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: you say that Jim Jordan's will never get it and 517 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: they're gonna have to move on from him. Is Steve Scalise, 518 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: based on your time in Congress, probably that that one 519 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: our best option right now. He may be, But my 520 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: concern goes back to something that I heard just a 521 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: few minutes ago, and that is, you know, from some 522 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: of the five or six that have voted no consistently. 523 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: You know, they said that if you just come, like 524 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: if you go to the one vote on the most 525 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: vacat or you go to this, then we'll vote for you. 526 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: Um well, that may get to consent, that may get 527 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: those on board, and you may keep the other two 528 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: hundred simply because it's left four votes and they're they're 529 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: tired of looking like they don't know what they're doing. 530 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: But in over time, the more the next person gives 531 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: to get those votes. There's a group of the other 532 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: House members that are sitting there like the you know, 533 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: the old sword of the particle son. Partical son comes home, 534 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: everybody celebrates, but what about the son who stayed. And 535 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: there's a lot a lot of members who are sitting 536 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: there saying, look, we're here just to work. We've been 537 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: doing the work ablaze from cameras and everything else, and 538 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: you're giving everything to these who pitched a fit, and 539 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: that's your problem. And look, I'm not trying to put 540 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: down either side, but this is the reality and people 541 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: need to take in the Republican Party. I'm sick of 542 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: us doing the high mighty cloud waving stuff. We gotta 543 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: be reality. We want to fight back against Democrats. We 544 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: better get our craft together. Well, let me ask you this. 545 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: Come noon Wednesday they reconvene. What happens then, in your gut, 546 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: how long will it take? And do you believe that 547 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy will end up being the speaker? I think 548 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: he is still has a chance. It will depend on 549 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: how much he is able to give tonight. And also 550 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: then it would also say, are those five or six 551 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: philosophically opposed just to Kevin? If they are, he won't 552 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: become a speaker. Well, and that's say it seems like 553 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: those at least those five are pretty much how been. 554 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, we're gonna screw you. Just say, because 555 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: you're the establishment, and and you better find this another candidate, 556 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: because it ain't. We're not gonna give you your dream job. 557 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: And look, maybe that's one of the problems of saying 558 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: you want it so bad, as that people know just 559 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: how bad you want it now it's just an issue 560 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: of you want it this bad, we're gonna make sure 561 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: you never get it. Yeah, that's the problem Kevin's had 562 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: all alf And I just say this as someone who 563 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: considers him a friend. Kevin has always had that problem. 564 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: He was always to consist. If you if you remember 565 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: back when they were the young gun Remember when remember 566 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: when Republicans thought Kevin McCarthy, Paul's Line, and uh Eric 567 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: Canner were the stars of the other unservatives. They were 568 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: before they got I would say, corrupted by Washington. Yeah, yeah, 569 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: I mean it was really interesting though, And what has 570 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: happened is but but Paul, you know, Paul fell off 571 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: because Paul again leading in a speakership job is almost impossible. 572 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi is unknock. If you ever want to be 573 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: I've always said this, if you ever want to be 574 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: president of the United States America, you never want to 575 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: be Speaker of the House because you'll never get the 576 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: job exactly. It is as it's one of those things. 577 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: So I mean, now, is there an opening now for 578 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: an off? Not an off an unknown? Okay, because I 579 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: want I want to be very careful with Republicans. Remember 580 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: we got Denny Hassard this way, Okay, remind people of 581 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: that because they don't remember the history, so quickly explain 582 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: I will. That's a mess concern because we've got to 583 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: go back in the or the back in the two 584 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: thousand when we had one of our speakers, Um Livingston, 585 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: I think was he was going to be speaker. Then 586 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: he got caught in an affair, and they're coming along 587 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: and and really nobody was out behind. Nobody could agree 588 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: on who it was. And then all of a sudden, 589 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: this sort of backbencher from Illinois who was sort of 590 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: liked by everybody, remember my fraternity reference. He was sort 591 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: of liked by everybody, go along, get along kind of guy. 592 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: He was pushed up and was elected speaker. And if 593 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: you go through those times and then of course the 594 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: very ugly way he ended and what came out after 595 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: his speakership and everything else. But also I reminded somebody 596 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: today because they were giving Paul Ryan and John Bainard 597 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: are all hard time. Remember Paul Ryan did not want 598 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: to be speaker. He's just like Jim Jordan and that 599 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: he didn't want to be speaker. It's not his giftedness 600 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: and not where he wanted to be. And yet he 601 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: took the job. And you know, some things I think 602 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: he did very well. On some things I think he 603 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: struggled with because he was still looking at an old 604 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: school consensus. So folks you kind of be waried that 605 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: speaker is a job that is more than just giving speeches. 606 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: It's more than just you know, telling the Democrats to 607 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: jump take a jump. It's actually a lot of administration. 608 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: It's see a lot of planning, it's a lot of 609 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: stuff you and it takes you away from things that 610 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: you may want to do. That's why Jim wants to 611 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: be take He took my old position as ranking number 612 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: of Judiciary and he wants to be Judiciary chairman because 613 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: that's his comfortable that's where he likes to be. You 614 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: take that out. Jim doesn't go get to yell at 615 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: people in the committee anymore. He has to say in 616 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: the Speaker's office and control two hundred and twenty two 617 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: Republicans to get things like the budget pass, the debt 618 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: sailing done, and things like that. My guess to meet 619 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: Doug Collins. He's got a great podcast. You can download 620 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: Duck Collins Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Final question, 621 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: noon you're there. If you were a member of Congress 622 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: again and you were sitting there, how would you vote 623 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: at noon tomorrow? I'd have father been knowing what I 624 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: know right now with the situation like it is. I've 625 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: already voted for McCarthy probably three times, because simply there 626 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: was never the preparation. And again, and that's saying that 627 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: I had got dropped in without even you know, having 628 00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: a chance to fix anything beforehand. Because right now, if 629 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,919 Speaker 1: they get mad at McCarthy, they'll get rid of McCarthy. 630 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: But at a certain point in time, you got to 631 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: fix four four votes. Think about that, man, four votes. Yeah, 632 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: this isn't about can you get four people to like 633 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: you who hate you? Probably not. And remember we've had 634 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: some of those people, some of our members in the 635 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: Republican Party have never voted for an appropriations bill, have 636 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: never voted for some legislation. How are we supposed to 637 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: get that done? They've never voted for Republican legislation. Yeah, 638 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: I'll be spook to vote now. Yeah, great point, Doug, 639 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: appreciate it as always. I'm sure we'll have you back 640 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: again real soon. Sound good man, Thank you, Thank you, sir. 641 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: Take a quick break, Ben Ferguson show moren't coming up, Doug. 642 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: I appreciate your time, my friend, thank you for coming on. 643 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: Make sure you share this podcast with your family and friends. 644 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: Write it's a five star review. We're gonna keep you 645 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: up to date on this. Also, I'll be doing a 646 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: special podcast so Senator Ted Cruise with his show Verdict, 647 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: So make sure you download Verdict with Ted Cruz as 648 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: I co host that podcast. Then three days a week, 649 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: and I will see you back here tomorrow