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Speaker 1: Quody Doors with Joseph's Gotten More. Back in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: I think it was. I was covering a trial both

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Speaker 1: on Law and Crime Network as well as with Core

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Speaker 1: TV of a pick farmer out of Iowa who took

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Speaker 1: of all things a corn rake and impaled his wife

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Speaker 1: on it. He was eventually found guilty. I don't remember

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Speaker 1: a case like that because the level of brutality that's

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Speaker 1: involved in this thing, I'll never forget it, you know,

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Speaker 1: And seeing the crime scene images and that sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, my lord, you know, and they lived

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Speaker 1: way out, you know, and there's a lot of way

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Speaker 1: out in Iowa. Now, I've got some dear friends up there.

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Speaker 1: I really do beautiful countryside if you like, flat and agricultural,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't put me off. Enters are kind of tough,

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Speaker 1: particularly for an old Southern boy, but nice folks. But

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Speaker 1: the brutality of that case, you know, really made me

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Speaker 1: stop and think for a moment, Wow, you know, this

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Speaker 1: could happen out here. He was eventually found guilty. The

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Speaker 1: fellow's name was Todd Mullis. I'm sure that some of

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Speaker 1: you guys remember that case. Wife was amy heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking,

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Speaker 1: but today, I have got what I would say is

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Speaker 1: equally a brutal case. As a matter of fact, several cases,

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Speaker 1: all stemming from one single individual as a perpetrator that

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Speaker 1: I would argue is equally as brutal. It's out in

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Speaker 1: an isolated area, it's in farmland, and the tale that

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Speaker 1: I'm about to tell you is going to rock you

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Speaker 1: to your core because there's so much horror associated with this,

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Speaker 1: and to a certain degree, there's so much confusion. But

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Speaker 1: we're going to try to get that straightened out. Coming

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Speaker 1: to you from the beautiful campus of Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. Brother Dave.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any memory of Todd, the Todd Mully's

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Speaker 1: case that I'll do the corn.

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Speaker 2: Rake That's what actually when you said corn Rake, that's

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Speaker 2: why I went, oh, yeah, you know, I we do

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Speaker 2: so many stories during the course of any year, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I do remember that corn Rake story. And I the

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Speaker 2: horror that comes from some of these crimes. And I'm

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Speaker 2: glad you mentioned that it's not just one crime, not

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Speaker 2: just one murder. There were four souls here that were

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Speaker 2: ended and yet in this one and I'm not trying

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Speaker 2: to be funny, but remember the game Clue. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: Colonel Mustard did it in the library with lead pipe.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: This is a story that actually kind of is like

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Speaker 2: that because the weapon is a metal pipe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It is a metal pipe. And there

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Speaker 1: were other other elements to this that are brought in

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Speaker 1: in this case that we could dig forever from a

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Speaker 1: forensic standpoint, And I plan on going kind of deep with.

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Speaker 2: This because it started. It was in a shed and

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Speaker 2: when I saw this, it began with a phone call

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Speaker 2: about possible carbon monoxide.

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Speaker 1: Now, yeah, and I'm going to tell you why I

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Speaker 1: think that that that came up.

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Speaker 2: I got it.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned Clue. Here's a bit of trivia

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Speaker 1: that I think that a lot of our friends are

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Speaker 1: not going to be aware of, and they're going to

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Speaker 1: be shocked by. Did you know that? Well, obviously you

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Speaker 1: know that I'm a father, and being a father, there's

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Speaker 1: certain things that you're required to do. One of those

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Speaker 1: things if you've got kids in the house, is to

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Speaker 1: play board games. And did you know? And I kind

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Speaker 1: of wear it as a badge of honor. Maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a bad a shame. I don't know. Did you know

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Speaker 1: that in the entirety of my life, even as a

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Speaker 1: child and into adulthood and parenthood, I have never won

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Speaker 1: a game of Clue. So much for that master's screen

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Speaker 1: forensic science. Huh, I don't just set that thing on

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Speaker 1: fire man. Wow, I've never. I've never. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that I have the patience with it. Whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: I get distracted.

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Speaker 2: Uh. You know.

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Speaker 1: You know people go around they talk about their you know,

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Speaker 1: low attention span and all that sort of thing, and

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Speaker 1: they start applying all these titles I got ADHD all stuff.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: that I there are certain games that I loved. I

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Speaker 1: loved playing you know the game I really loved. I

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Speaker 1: love playing Sorry. Maybe it's because I had to say

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Speaker 1: it so much in my life, but I love playing Sorry.

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Speaker 1: I love playing Trouble. You know the thing where you

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Speaker 1: pumped a little bubble in it, you know, it tells

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Speaker 1: you where to move. I love those games. I never

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Speaker 1: was a success at Clue though. It just it required

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Speaker 1: too much brain power. So I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: guys want to go ahead and tune out now, I

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Speaker 1: guess so I mean, I don't know if that invalidates

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Speaker 1: me as a forensic practitioner or a professor. And but yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know you mentioned this and you you know, you

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Speaker 1: show up at a scene, Dave, and I'm glad you

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Speaker 1: mentioned this bit about about carbon monoxide. You show up

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Speaker 1: at a scene, and particularly where there are multiple deaths,

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Speaker 1: all right, because one one homicide in and of itself

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Speaker 1: is it can not always but can be markedly complex.

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Speaker 1: And you have to take your time working the scene,

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Speaker 1: making sure you're documenting and collecting everything that has to

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Speaker 1: be But then you add bodies to this, and there

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Speaker 1: are other dynamics that come into play, and they are

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Speaker 1: physical and I don't mean this like in amongst the living.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's physical relationships between the decedents, right, and

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Speaker 1: you have to be able to document that everything from

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Speaker 1: distance to share trauma, to the degree of clothing, how

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Speaker 1: much are they clothed? You know, do you have somebody

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Speaker 1: that's partially clothed? Is there evidence that somebody was brutalized

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Speaker 1: more than another person that was there, because you know,

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Speaker 1: there's how many of these cases have we talked about

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Speaker 1: over the year's day where we've had these events where

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Speaker 1: there will be a multiple death scenario, but there will

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Speaker 1: be that one person that appears to have been singled out,

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Speaker 1: you know, where they've just they've been brutalized so much

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Speaker 1: more than anybody else. I think of JJ entilely, you know,

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Speaker 1: relative to that, you know, with the day bell unpleasantness

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Speaker 1: up there. But yeah, in this case. You know, one

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Speaker 1: of the first things that came up was this idea

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Speaker 1: of carbon monoxide assixiation.

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Speaker 2: But carbon monoxide, Joe would be four bodies in sleeping

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Speaker 2: bags maybe, but you wouldn't see a crime scene. Do

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Speaker 2: you see people who went to sleep and didn't wake up?

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Speaker 2: As a carbon manoxide tends to do.

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Speaker 1: I can, but I think that your default position with

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Speaker 1: your brain as you're trying. Most people do not flee

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Speaker 1: to homicide. That's something they don't want to do that,

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Speaker 1: you know, It's like they can't. They have to come

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Speaker 1: up I think with some other explanation as to why

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Speaker 1: for people of course, yeah, for people. I We'll get

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Speaker 1: into the details a minute. But four people are down.

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Speaker 1: So you've got the smell at the scene, which is

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Speaker 1: like inside of a kind of a pole barn kind

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Speaker 1: of thing.

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Speaker 2: It's inside they're calling it an outbuilding, and when.

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Speaker 1: I looked at that pole born us Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The pole barn. So I'm thinking, okay, if you think

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Speaker 2: about the big steel beam, you know that or not

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Speaker 2: being but this big steel pole in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the room that acts as a stabilizing unit for the

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Speaker 2: whole metal building around it. I mean, I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: get an idea here. But when I read one article

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Speaker 2: on this, it was talking about the outbuilding slash shed

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Speaker 2: and that Amanda Parker. By the way, the victims here,

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Speaker 2: Ramanda's Cooper is forty four, Amanda Parker is thirty three,

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Speaker 2: Keon O'Ryan is twenty six, and Brent Brown is thirty four,

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Speaker 2: and they were killed or died in an outbuilding. And

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Speaker 2: then inside this outbuilding slash pole building, there's a tent

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Speaker 2: and that tent is where the victim, where Amanda at

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Speaker 2: least was living and had been for some time. Now

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Speaker 2: I can add something to this because, as we said,

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Speaker 2: carbon monoxide was the original call, and to me, I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking for people to sleep, and that's it. But I

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Speaker 2: looked at something a little bit further, and the people

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Speaker 2: that Amanda was working with, they're really not They're beyond

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Speaker 2: upset that their friend was killed because they were pointing

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Speaker 2: out that she works at a place called the Old

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Speaker 2: Brick House Pub, and they said that from the time

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Speaker 2: that she left and the time the nine one one

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Speaker 2: call was made, four dead bodies was less than an hour.

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Speaker 2: Less than an hour, justph Scott Morgan for Amanda Parker.

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Speaker 2: So again there are three dead bodies and one that

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Speaker 2: is really wounded bad and eventually does die. Right, But

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Speaker 2: the original call cover monoxide. So backing up to that,

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Speaker 2: if you're going on that call, and you and I've

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Speaker 2: talked about the mindset of investigators, police fire everybody, first

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Speaker 2: responders and as you said, last responders going into a

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Speaker 2: scene with preconceived notions and that is not a good

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Speaker 2: thing in terms of looking at and investigating a crime.

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Speaker 2: So what are we doing here with carbon monoxide?

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Speaker 1: As it's terrifying? Uh, you know, back years and years ago,

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Speaker 1: almost well myself and two of my colleagues got really

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Speaker 1: ill at at a carbon monoxide event or you know,

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Speaker 1: group of desks. We had an entire family. This was

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Speaker 1: actually in a town called Kenner, Louisiana, where if you've

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Speaker 1: ever flown into New Orleans, you fly into Kenner. That's

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Speaker 1: where Louis Armstrong Airport is International Airport, and I got

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Speaker 1: called out there, and you know, you roll up on

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Speaker 1: the scene, there's star trucks and you know, when you

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Speaker 1: get out of vehicle, you're immediately told you got multiple deaths.

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Speaker 1: And in this case, I can't remember the number. It

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Speaker 1: seems like we had five dead or maybe even six

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Speaker 1: dead in the house. You know, it doesn't get cold

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Speaker 1: in New Orleans very often, or down in South Louisiana

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Speaker 1: during the wintertimes is like February or something. But we

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Speaker 1: had a call snap. And in this case, they had

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Speaker 1: talked about how the wall mounted you know those wall

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Speaker 1: mounted heaters, Yeah, kind of built in the wall in

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Speaker 1: like the sixties ranch style houses. It was not functioning.

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Speaker 1: So they had a relative that came over to work

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Speaker 1: on the fan. These things have an exhaust fan. My

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Speaker 1: understanding was he had reversed the flow. Oh no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so when you walk into this thing, all of

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Speaker 1: the people are, like you said, are all in bed,

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Speaker 1: and they're in there, they're covered, you know, with like blankets.

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Speaker 1: And I don't mean covered like they covered themselves before

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Speaker 1: lying down, It's what I'm saying. And they died. We

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Speaker 1: got the all clear to go in. And this is

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Speaker 1: before the days when when the fire service had the

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Speaker 1: portable carbon monoxide detectors. They had put huge fans. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's fans that you see if you go to a garage,

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Speaker 1: you know, during the summer, you know where where they're

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Speaker 1: you know, the garage where you take your car, not

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Speaker 1: at your home. I mean maybe you haven't, but there's

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Speaker 1: a gigantic fans, you see. And it was that were

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Speaker 1: trying to pull the air out and they had opened

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Speaker 1: the windows to ventilate it, and they gave us the

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Speaker 1: thumbs up and we went in and I'll never forget, man.

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Speaker 1: I looked over at I was in with it, a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective and a crime scene tech and myself and

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Speaker 1: I looked at my friend who was the crime scene tech,

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Speaker 1: and his eyes were bloodshot. Oh wow, and my head

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Speaker 1: was hurting. I said, is your head hurting? He said, man,

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Speaker 1: he says, just banging. Man. And then immediately it hit

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Speaker 1: me place was not not completely ventilated. We went and

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Speaker 1: grabbed grabbed the detective. He was busily writing and you

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Speaker 1: could see the changes in his face as well, and

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Speaker 1: it's like you're you know, you get caught up in

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Speaker 1: the work, you're not really thinking about. It grabbed him.

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Speaker 1: They had to put us on O two. I'd spend

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Speaker 1: I had to spend like I think, I spent overnight

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Speaker 1: in the hospital that night. The interesting thing about carbon

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Speaker 1: dioxide is that once you're exposed to it, they want

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Speaker 1: to keep you on O two for a protracted period

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Speaker 1: of time because it can I have been told at

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Speaker 1: least that there's still a level of lethality eight hours

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Speaker 1: out from an exposure. And so when we do autopsies

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Speaker 1: on bodies of individuals that have been exposed to carmonoxide,

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Speaker 1: even their blood dave, even the blood of the dead

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Speaker 1: is like a cherry pink color, and all of the

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Speaker 1: viscera internally, well you'll see it externally too. The eyes

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Speaker 1: turned pink. The skin you'll it'll have a pink as

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Speaker 1: hue to it. And uh, the organs have a pink

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Speaker 1: tent to them as well. It's it's amazing, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's the hemoglobin that's reacting to this response, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, you do you know, I remember my head

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Speaker 1: hurts so bad, and I hadn't begun to feel drowsy yet.

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Speaker 1: But you know, in this particular case, out in Iowa

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Speaker 1: with these four people. The finder knew that one of

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Speaker 1: these subjects inside, and I think it was Cooper, if

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Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. They were working on a truck inside

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Speaker 1: and they could smell oil, you know, like heated oil,

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Speaker 1: and I think that they were thinking, well, the vehicle

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Speaker 1: is running inside of there. If you ever wonder why,

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Speaker 1: you know, the garages, the garage a garage will leave

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Speaker 1: the bay doors open. You know, these guys are working.

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Speaker 1: You know, in this environment, people don't think that that's dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Well it's not just a car falling on you or

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Speaker 1: something like that. They have to turn the engines on

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Speaker 1: many times, and so they'll leave the doors open to

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Speaker 1: get ventilation. Well, when they arrived, you know, they're smelling

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Speaker 1: oil in there, and and like and I hold this,

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Speaker 1: I hold this, this thought in my brain about this

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Speaker 1: relative to people. When you walk into a scene, you're

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Speaker 1: not thinking, you're not thinking. Your default position is, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they've been beaten to death with a metal pipe, and

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Speaker 1: you're thinking, well, they've been exposed to noxious fumes and

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Speaker 1: either there might still be alive or maybe they're passed

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Speaker 1: out deceased. But the one thing that kind of betrayed

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Speaker 1: those thoughts was the fact that upon further examination, each

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Speaker 1: one of these subjects was lying in a pool of

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Speaker 1: their own blood. You know, recently in the news there

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Speaker 1: was I think it was in London. I'm not really sure.

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Speaker 1: It's happened multiple times where somebody will And of course

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Speaker 1: we saw this.

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Speaker 2: Poor girl up in Charlotte.

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Speaker 1: Not too long ago, where an individual pulls out a

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Speaker 1: knife and they begin attacking. Of course, she was a

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Speaker 1: single victim. But you know, there was recently, I think

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Speaker 1: we had eight I think it was in London that

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Speaker 1: were attacked on a bus. It's not like shooting, is it,

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Speaker 1: Dave think? And when you go to a bludgeoning, you

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Speaker 1: know where we know that a metal pipe is. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, it's a three foot long metal pipe.

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Speaker 1: I've envisioned that this thing is probably some kind of

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Speaker 1: galvanized galvanized pipe that was used, which is kind of interesting.

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Speaker 1: If any end of one of these pipes is used.

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Speaker 1: I've had this happen before. Where it's been threaded. You'll

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Speaker 1: actually see a pattern injury that will develop on the

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Speaker 1: surface of the skin. Over the surface of the impact areas.

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Speaker 1: You'll you'll see these threads you know, and they'll take

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Speaker 1: on the the the negative image of the threads being

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Speaker 1: impressed into the skin. But back to my where I

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Speaker 1: was going initially, the only way I see this kind

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Speaker 1: of happening. You know, how do you beat three people

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Speaker 1: to death or four people to death with a metal

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Speaker 1: pipe without this being some type of ambush? I mean

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Speaker 1: that that you can't. I don't see it. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's not like some you know, martial arts movie where

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Speaker 1: you get which is always so stupid to me, where

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Speaker 1: you got one guy in the center and he's being

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Speaker 1: attacked by a bunch of people and you're thinking, I

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Speaker 1: want you some bum rushing, right, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: care how high he can kick and all those sort

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Speaker 1: of things that that's but you know, you're thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: how do you attack for people? I think you know

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Speaker 1: this didn't happen all at one time. This sounds like

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Speaker 1: an ambush day.

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Speaker 2: It does, and this is something that they're going to

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Speaker 2: have to figure out. Now. What we have here is

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Speaker 2: let me say that I them in my head, I'm

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Speaker 2: hearing cool hand, Luke, Well, we're dealing well yeah?

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Speaker 1: Is well?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, to communicate, communicate, yeah, Luke Trusdale thirty six years old.

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Speaker 2: He's on the scene when police arrive, and we have

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Speaker 2: the brother of Brent Brown, who actually found the bodies.

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Speaker 2: Now again carbon Minike's I call comes in to nine

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Speaker 2: one one. Matt Brown is at the scene and discovers

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Speaker 2: his brother Brent, and the others Keon Ryan, Amanda Parker,

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Speaker 2: and Ramanda's Cooper. He discovers them all and the blood

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Speaker 2: as you mentioned a minute ago, so immediately I went,

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Speaker 2: you got blood everywhere? Who said carbon monoxide poisoning? I mean,

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Speaker 2: I get it that, I guess I get that could

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Speaker 2: have been a reason that the people were able to

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Speaker 2: be attacked, if they had been overcome with carbon monoxide

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Speaker 2: and then they were beaten to death. But that big

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Speaker 2: question of how does one person use a lead pipe

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Speaker 2: to kill three nearly four people that are not handicapped physically.

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Speaker 2: They're in good health apparently, So that's the question that

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Speaker 2: has to be answered. And it's so funny because so

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Speaker 2: many funny strange not funny, how huh?

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Speaker 1: I no, no, yeah, But it's funny that how.

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Speaker 2: Many times when we look at a story, we want

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Speaker 2: to know, why did this happen? Why did you do this?

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Speaker 2: Like that means anything, And I mean it doesn't when

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Speaker 2: you're solving a crime, justph Scott Morgan, when you're looking

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Speaker 2: at this, do you ever consider the why? Because does

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Speaker 2: it have bearing on your investigation?

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, and again you know how I

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Speaker 1: feel about that word. I hate why, I really do.

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Speaker 1: I guess for some people it has a bigger impact

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Speaker 1: than it does for me. I'm more about what and

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Speaker 1: how and when and those sort of things that there's

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Speaker 1: enough on your plate, particularly at a scene. Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: narrow this down to a scene, all right, where you're

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Speaker 1: having to consider all of these other questions that are

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Speaker 1: out there. Why is like kind of like way down

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Speaker 1: the list at that point in time, because first off,

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Speaker 1: you don't have enough data to even formulate something until

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Speaker 1: you've collected all of the scientific data that's out there,

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Speaker 1: you know, and also that's going to be developed at

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Speaker 1: the morgue and in the laboratory. You know, why is

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Speaker 1: a very leisurely questioned all right?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: To me? It is, it's it's a you know, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of you know why me? You know, that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. If you take that same idea, that's that's

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Speaker 1: almost a luxury now going down after you have all

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Speaker 1: of the data. Yeah, you can play around with that

347
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Speaker 1: all you want. But you know, famously is it's been

348
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Speaker 1: stated over and over again. You there's no particularly in court,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to prove motive. Motive is not on

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Speaker 1: the table. They like to talk about motive, but you know,

351
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Speaker 1: there's a lot of other things people like to talk

352
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Speaker 1: about too, But it's not you know, it has it

353
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Speaker 1: doesn't have as much value in my world. I want

354
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Speaker 1: to know how how this went down relative to the well,

355
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Speaker 1: first off, the sequencing of it, I think is important

356
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Speaker 1: because you know, when you've got four people, what could

357
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Speaker 1: what could four people have done to either one individual

358
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Speaker 1: or maybe a group of individuals? Because I got to

359
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 1: tell you, Dave a beating death to me? When I

360
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: see that and I think about that, that's almost like

361
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Speaker 1: messaging to me, Yeah, okay, that's what could four people

362
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Speaker 1: have done? And are they being utilized? Are they being

363
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Speaker 1: utilized in order to send a message. You're saying that

364
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Speaker 1: a pipe was utilized to beat somebody to death? You

365
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Speaker 1: know the old term is to bring them. I don't

366
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Speaker 1: know if you've the brain them.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we would use that from here on. I'll tell

368
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Speaker 2: you that.

369
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Speaker 1: Yeah, person got brained to death, beating over and over again.

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Speaker 1: There's a conclusion that you arrive at apparently, and I

371
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Speaker 1: think that in this case they did, because the actual

372
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Speaker 1: weapon is recovered and at least three there's four victims,

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Speaker 1: four fatalities eventually. But there's three victims I think whose

374
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Speaker 1: DNA is found on the pipe, and then a potential

375
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Speaker 1: suspect whose DNA is found on the pipe. So you

376
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: get an idea that, well, this instrument was used to

377
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Speaker 1: kill all of them. Well, unless you're passing around to

378
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Speaker 1: a group of people who are utilizing it individually, here

379
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Speaker 1: your turn type of thing. You got one person that's

380
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Speaker 1: the perpetrator here that's beating somebody to death, and what

381
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Speaker 1: sequence did this happen in? I think that if you

382
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Speaker 1: can get to the heart of the sequence, then you

383
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Speaker 1: can try to understand what the motivation was, who was

384
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Speaker 1: the target and was there a specific target or do

385
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: you just have a madman that is just trying to

386
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Speaker 1: keep people in a confined space they have an idea

387
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: of where a confined space containing or housing for people are.

388
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Speaker 1: If they just want to go randomly victimize a group

389
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Speaker 1: of people, you know, and they're gonna wait, they're gonna wait,

390
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Speaker 1: and they're going to knock hell out of out of

391
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Speaker 1: these people until they've beaten them down. And Dave, this

392
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Speaker 1: is another thing. This really jumped in mind. He kind

393
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Speaker 1: of opened the door. Here. You're you're an old baseball player.

394
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Speaker 1: There was there ever a time in baseball where you

395
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Speaker 1: were not as exhausted going into I mean, like I've

396
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: always imagined this because I'm not a baseball guy. I'm

397
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: a football guy. But it seems to me that one

398
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: of the most exhausting things that you can do, particular

399
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: if you've got a coach that's right, and you're trying

400
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: to work on your batting stance and your swing, you

401
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: get in a batting cage and you go in there

402
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: for a protracted period of time and hit ball after

403
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: ball after ball. When you get out, I mean, everything's gone.

404
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: I would think, how much more so, you know, when

405
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: you're taking a metal pipe and you're beating somebody to

406
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: death with it, and where do you where do you?

407
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: Where do you call?

408
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 2: No joy?

409
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: At that moment, Tom say, Okay, it's over with, It's done.

410
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: You know, I've sufficiently eradicated this person from the face

411
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Speaker 1: of the planet. You know, what's the cutoff? What's the

412
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: cut off there?

413
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 2: Well, think about it. Anybody who's ever cut would if

414
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: you've ever chopped with you thro a fire, you know,

415
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 2: the same thing. You're swinging something over and over. Then

416
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: first it's easy. At first, it's comfortable, and after a

417
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 2: couple of minutes, you know, your arms get tired. Your

418
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 2: forearms are the first ones to go. And anyway, when

419
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 2: I looked at this, because I'm again trying to wrap

420
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: my head around, how did one person, Trusdale control the

421
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: situation so that he could eat four people at the

422
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: same time. Now we're going to I assume that he

423
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: beat four people at the same time. Because the only

424
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 2: thing we really know, Joseph Scott Morgan is the timetable

425
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: given to us by Amanda's co workers, who said the

426
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 2: time she left work and the time that nine one

427
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: woman was called was an hour. That was it, from

428
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: the time she left work to the time she's dead.

429
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: One hour. Now, Prosecutor, I want to get to this

430
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 2: because Trooper Tyler Fairbanks says dud when he's asked this question,

431
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 2: When did you realize that this was not a carbon

432
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 2: monoxide issue? Fairbanks says, once I walked in that overhead door,

433
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: and I saw the first female with blunt forced trauma wounds?

434
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: What made you form that opinion that you were not

435
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 2: there for what you were initially called for? Trooper? The

436
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: carbon monoxide does not create your head to collapse on itself.

437
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 2: And carbon monoxide poisoning also does not leave pols of

438
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: blood on the ground. Now, Joe, you've got pols of

439
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: blood on the ground ahead caved in. This is just

440
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 2: one victim. Now you've got blood spatter on the victims,

441
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 2: on the walls, on the ceiling, on the floor. How

442
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: do you break this down? Because you've already got investigated

443
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 2: people who have come in to determine, checking for vital

444
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: science to see who's dead, who's alive. They are able

445
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 2: to determine that three are already dead. The fourth is

446
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: in bad shape and is helicoptered to the hospital, Brent Brown,

447
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 2: but he died later. Now you've got three dead on

448
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: the scene, and you've got blood everywhere. How do you,

449
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 2: as an investigator separate this blood spatter over here, and

450
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: this footprint over here, and this handprint over here. How

451
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: do you break all those out to actually try to

452
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 2: determine who is killed first?

453
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: Okay, let me take this piece by piece because it's

454
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: very complex when you begin talking about bloodstained patterns. All right,

455
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: First off, you don't need to move to bodies. This

456
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: is one of those cases, Dave, where the body in

457
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: you're kind of from an investigative standpoint, you're kind of

458
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: at an advantage because you're in a closed space and

459
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: you're not not to say that you're not going to

460
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: have bloodstained deposition in an outdoor space. However, it's more

461
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: appreciable in a contained space because you've got everything's happening

462
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: in this you know, kind of three D environment where

463
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: you've got you've got overhead covering, you've got walls, and

464
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: you've got floors, right, and then you have the other

465
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: objects that are contained within that space, and you have

466
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: other bodies okay, and then if you're fortunate, you might

467
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: have a suspect as well. So all of those are

468
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: going to have potential for deposition of blood patterns on them.

469
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: You don't want to move the bodies, uh quickly because

470
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: one of the things that you're looking for, and you know,

471
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: people always ask us about the you know, they talk

472
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: about blood spatter velocity, which is a big thing. You know,

473
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: where you've got this active event, we've got low velocity,

474
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: medium velocity, and high velocity. High velocity generally exist in

475
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: the world of firearms because it just makes sense, right,

476
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, the higher velocity of the object that's going

477
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: to slim into a surface and generate blood deposition, it

478
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: has to be traveling. Don't have to be going supersonic,

479
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: but it has to be traveling a very high rate

480
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: of speed. You get into the area of medium medium velocity.

481
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: Now you're talking about baseball, bats, hammers, pipes. Okay, does

482
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: droplets generally the smaller the droplet, the higher the velocity.

483
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: And I know that there's people that will disagree with that, probably,

484
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: but that's just kind of a way to think about it.

485
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: And then when you get to low velocity that you're

486
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: talking about using your hands, using your feet, you know,

487
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: those droplets again are going to be a bit larger.

488
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: So you're kind of in that medium velocity. You're going

489
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: to have overlapping. Overlapping patterns too, depended upon the proximity

490
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: that these where these bodies are to one another. So

491
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: you want to establish what's referred to as a point

492
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: of origin, you know, the strike point, and there might

493
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: be multiple strike points. Let me ask you something. Have

494
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: you ever taken a shot from somebody? You don't have

495
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: to answer this. Have you ever taken a shot from

496
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: somebody and then you stand in that same position? Well,

497
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: that's rare. Yeah, most people, Yeah, most people are going

498
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: to move, all right, now, depend upon the fort. Now,

499
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: there are events where you will drop a person right

500
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: where they stand. You know, you think some big guy,

501
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: some diminutive person, and you strike them on top of

502
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: the head. You have enough force that's going to drop them.

503
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: But every time, and well I'll talk about this with

504
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: head strikes. If you have an object like a pipe

505
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: and you're cracking them on the head, Well, that first

506
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: initial initial strike, particularly if it's a smooth kind of

507
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: if it doesn't have like a big texture kind of

508
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: surface to it. That is the object dependent upon the

509
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: angle and how much energy you can generate. Most of

510
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: the time, you're not going to completely open up the head. Okay,

511
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: it's going to take another strike because what you're doing

512
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: is you're compromising structural integrity of both the skin and

513
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: the bomb underline. All right, So I talk to my

514
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: students about this, and I do not teach. I do

515
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: not teach at a higher level. I don't teach bloodstained interpretation.

516
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: One of my colleagues does, but I teach the intro

517
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: and I've had to do it in the field. I

518
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: always use the example of paint can okay, where when

519
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: you take the paintbrush and you dip it in Okay,

520
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: that dynamic as you flick it over your shoulder is

521
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: going to create what's the equivalent of cast off. So

522
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: if you think about a pipe penetrating a skull, it

523
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: becomes the surface of it has blood that's on the surface.

524
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: As you flick that pipe back in order to again

525
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: facilitate striking down again, well, that blood is literally cast off.

526
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: It can be cast off in an arcing motion directly

527
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: above your head. It can go you can cast it

528
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: off to the side. Depending upon what plane you're swinging

529
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: this thing in. Okay, the person swinging it can get

530
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,479
Speaker 1: blood on them. I got a fascinating story I had

531
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: one of my colleagues that was actually he's a forensic scientist,

532
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: and he was talking. A guy walked up to him

533
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: at a scene day where a woman had been Let's see,

534
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: how did it work? A woman had in fact been

535
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: beaten to death with a hammer and this guy's wearing

536
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: a white T shirt. Colleague, my colleague that's a forensic scientist,

537
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: crime scene investigator, along with the detective were talking to

538
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: this guy. Guy just walks up and just voluntarily says, hey, man,

539
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: you know, I think I know who might have done this.

540
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: And as he's talking to them, they say, well, go

541
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: stand over there, we've got your information. The guy turns

542
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: to walk away and David, he's got a diagonal line

543
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: of blood deposition running from his right shoulder across to

544
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: his over the top of his left kidney area. They said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Wow,

545
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: come here, you know, like this and met They put

546
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: the bracelets on the sky with him in the back

547
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: of the car, and it turned out he was, in

548
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: fact the perpetrator.

549
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 2: Wow.

550
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: Okay, so you know, even the perpetrator, and you know,

551
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: our friends out there that listen to bodybags are pretty

552
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: bright people, all right, So they understand this that it's

553
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: not you're not doing this necessarily in a vacuum. So

554
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: as far as order, you'd you'd ask an excellent question,

555
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: can we determine the order? That's that's difficult to do.

556
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: I think it is actually I think that you're going

557
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: to have to be more reliant on the status of

558
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: the bodies. And again my fallback position is going to

559
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: be post mortem interval. You know, understanding, you know, had

560
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: had an individual laid in wait and killed that first

561
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: person early on and where they cold and stiff, maybe

562
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: laying there dead before the next victim shows up and

563
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: that subjects attacked, and then the next and the next

564
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: and the next. So that's why, not only you have

565
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: to leave the bodies in place so you can understand

566
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: the point of origin for the blood coming off the body,

567
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 1: you have to leave those bodies in place so that

568
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: you can thoroughly examine them to try to determine how

569
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: long they have in fact been dead. Because brother Dave,

570
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: I could tell you it's a head scratcher when you

571
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: think again, just like that earlier stated that one person

572
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: is going to take out four individuals with a single weapon.

573
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to swallow unless the people would

574
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: either be inebriated in some way where you know, and

575
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: I've had people that have been beaten to death in

576
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: their sleep that does happen, or have been beaten to

577
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: death when they're passed out, or it's an ambush kind

578
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: of thing where you've got somebody that just waits one

579
00:35:49,200 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: by one and they begin to hammer on an individual. Dave.

580
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: Every now and then, my wife Kimmy and I will say,

581
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: you know what, we haven't been scared in a while.

582
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: Let's watch a horror movie. And we don't do it

583
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: a lot, all right, It's not something that you know,

584
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: we engage in with great frequency. But I think the

585
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: first movie horror movie we actually watched together, this happened

586
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: in this movie came out in ninety nine. We got

587
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: married in ninety nine. The first one we ever watched.

588
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: We picked a doozy because we didn't know what to

589
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: expect with this thing. We just heard everybody talking about it.

590
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: And that's Blair Witch Project. Oh and I got to

591
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: tell you it got my attention because I couldn't. And

592
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: I hate to sound like, you know, a gullible fool.

593
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm not a fool. I'm just my

594
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: level of gullibility with this thing. And I don't want

595
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: to give it away for anybody that hasn't well.

596
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: Since nineteen ninety nine, if you hadn't seen.

597
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: It, Yeah, I think we can safely go down this road.

598
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean and it scared me. And it

599
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: scared me in a sense that you've got people that

600
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: are going out looking for something that is infamous and

601
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: they're filming the thing the entire time. There is an

602
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: element in this case out of Iowa that is fascinating

603
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: to me because they have hooked a guy up on

604
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: charges and as we are speaking right now, this trial

605
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: is ongoing. That's one of the reasons I wanted to

606
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: talk about it. Am I or am I not correct?

607
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: And there was an initial conversation that came up in

608
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: this case where the alleged perpetrator wanted to create a movie.

609
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: Is that accurate about this case?

610
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 2: That is accurate? And Luke Trusdell told police a number

611
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: of things before they gave him the miranda. You know,

612
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: you have the right to remain silent. Before they mirandized him,

613
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: he made a number of statements. He was at the

614
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: scene when police arrived, and many of the statements are

615
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: not going to be heard by the jury. But that

616
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: was a comment he made that did he kill four

617
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: people to create the subject matter for a movie? Joe,

618
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: have you ever heard of such a thing?

619
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: No? No, I assume that somebody else has done this.

620
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: It sounds rather fantastical. I think that someone would and

621
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: oh my lord, it's dark.

622
00:38:59,560 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 2: Yes.

623
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: The only way I can is you know that I

624
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: can really, you know, really describe. You know, you hear

625
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: about things where people have created fictionalized events, you know,

626
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: where they're doing it for their entertainment. What was that

627
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: book that was written all those years ago, the most dangerous,

628
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: most dangerous game I think, where you know, there were

629
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: hunting people on the island, on the island and all

630
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 1: those sorts of things.

631
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 2: There was a guy named mister Kinkaid that was hunting

632
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: Gilligan on Gilligan's Island, and really they weren't smart enough

633
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 2: to figure out how to grab the bottom of the

634
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 2: helicopter to get off the island.

635
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: But don't get me started on Gilligan at any rate.

636
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: Hate that movie. I mean I hate that TV show

637
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 1: for that reason. You know, Gilligan. Let me tell you something.

638
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: Gilligan would have been disposed off, diposed early on if

639
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: I had had anything to do with it.

640
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 2: You know, one day we're going to break down all

641
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: the times they failed to escape the island.

642
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: Oh my lord, I'll tell you, But don't get me

643
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: starty anyway.

644
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 2: Anyway, this guy wanting to create a to do a

645
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 2: murder at this level of multiple people for nothing more

646
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 2: than to create the subject matter for a movie. I

647
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 2: mean that if that is the top of mind, that's why.

648
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 2: If that is truly the motive, Joe, we have a

649
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 2: hollow soul we're dealing with.

650
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:26,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that we do. But is it? And look,

651
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get too deep into social commentary here,

652
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: but does it really surprise you in the world that

653
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: we live in nowadays, because you know, you can see

654
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: stuff on social media that is in fact manufactured. And

655
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: I'm not even talking about the AI stuff. I'm just

656
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: talking about people that go out and you know, create

657
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: these various little dramas that are out there. So you know,

658
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: in hearing this, I'm not as shocked by this today.

659
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: And I hate to say that. Oh my Lord, Lord,

660
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: forgive me. I hate to say that today. I'm not

661
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: hang on, let me get let me get this straight.

662
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: I am not as shocked by this today as I

663
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: would have been ten years ago, right, and just I

664
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: mean just think about it. You know, you know you said, well, Morgan,

665
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, God, that's that's really horrible. For you to say,

666
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 1: is it, you know, because there are people out there

667
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: that go around and they create these these things in

668
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: order to draw attention to themselves. And is this Is

669
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: this an indication that this guy has psychopathology going on

670
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: to the point where he's so debilitated he you know,

671
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: he's he's got a problem. You know. Well, no, not necessarily.

672
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: This is something that he desired. Uh, you know, according

673
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: to the authorities. But they're not allowing this in court.

674
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 2: Right, a lot of it. Yeah, part of his statement

675
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: will be allowed, but part of it will not be allowed.

676
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: And they're going to be arguing more about this during

677
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: the course of the trial, you know, because it's a

678
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 2: big part of why we're here today.

679
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: Well, one of the you know, one of the things

680
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: they teach cops is that if you've got an individual

681
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: that makes these what do they call spontaneous admissions, right,

682
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: you don't you don't say, hey, you know, it would

683
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: be in your best interest to shut your mouth. At

684
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: this point in time, we haven't mirandized you yet, so

685
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: i'd be very curious about you know, that status with

686
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: this trial. Uh is it? It's not the cops duty

687
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: to tell you to shut your mouth. You know, so

688
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: if this is a spontaneous admission, right that in most cases,

689
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: that's that's valid. Now if you other than the way

690
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: I understand it, other than probit if questions like are

691
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: you injured or you hurt? What's your name? Where are

692
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: you from? Uh? Those sorts of kind of generalized questions

693
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: that you know, but as a guy saying, yeah, my

694
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: name is Fred Jones, I just cut my wife's head

695
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: off and put it in a camera bag, that's not

696
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to mirandize him, and that

697
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: that can be included.

698
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:09,439
Speaker 2: At really do times.

699
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, they've gotten to a point where,

700
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, where they were not wanting beat

701
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: officers to mirandize people. You know, immediately you don't ask

702
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: them questions, probative questions other than are you okay? You know,

703
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: because you're you're just trying to is there anybody else

704
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: in the house? You know, this guy's covered with blood?

705
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: Is there anybody else in the house that's been injured? Well,

706
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: that's not you're not asking them to give away anything.

707
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: You don't want to say, why did you do this?

708
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: Or you know what you know? Did you do this?

709
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 2: Or whatever? The case might be obviously to look at

710
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: whoever's standing nearby and say, hey, we recalled from carbon

711
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: monoxide poisoning. What the heck happened? Yeah, you know you

712
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 2: can't do that without it getting tossed. I mean it

713
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 2: makes sense to me that that would be a yeah,

714
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 2: that's an obvious question.

715
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: But well, yeah, because you know you're being told that

716
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: it's carbon monoxide, and you know that humans don't spontaneously,

717
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: you know, develop holes and defects in their body and

718
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: blood begins gushing out from them. There has to be

719
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: there has to be an action, you know that elicits this,

720
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: this physical reaction, And so I find this fascinating that

721
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: this was kind of the motivating factor behind what the

722
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: prosecution is saying was driving this individual to beat these

723
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: people to death.

724
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 2: Dave, I know it with a lead pipe or with

725
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: a metal pipe. So if he was truly set up

726
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 2: to try to kill people for the sake of creating

727
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 2: the log line for a movie, the four people he killed, okay,

728
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: because Brent Brown died because of the beating. But you've

729
00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: got Amanda Parker thirty three involved with Romand's Cooper forty four.

730
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 2: He has two sons, Keana Ryan, twenty six, and Brent Brown,

731
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 2: who was thirty four. Each one was beaten to death.

732
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 2: They found bludgeoned with a metal pipe. And what is

733
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: prying to come up in court now is what happened

734
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 2: and why? Again? Why is something we need not necessarily

735
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 2: something they need? But why would anybody kill four people?

736
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 2: And how did he pull it off by himself? The

737
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 2: prosecution says it was an ambush and the defense says

738
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: it wasn't an ambush. You know, actually I don't know

739
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 2: what they're saying totally right now, because we just said

740
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 2: the prosecution phase. The defense will have their day. But

741
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: justph Scott Morgan, You've got four people that were bludgeoned

742
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 2: to death with a metal pipe by one person. Only

743
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: one person is charged in this crime, who claims he

744
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 2: was trying to create the plot for a movie. I'm

745
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 2: thinking to human beings not have any value, people not

746
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: have value now that we're seeing as nothing more than

747
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 2: something that can just be.

748
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: Fodder, Yeah, fodder for entertainment. I don't know it. It

749
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: would it would seem so particularly well, particularly in this case.

750
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: And I don't again, I don't know if this is

751
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: some gigantic social commentary here, but they're going to have

752
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 1: to sufficiently explain this. I think one of the first

753
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: things that we're going to find out is that because

754
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: you know, the words carbon monoxide were floated. I'm hoping

755
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: that the medical examiner in this case that they drew

756
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: blood on each one of these victims and they will

757
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: run I think I've mentioned before the test it's called

758
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 1: a car box of hemoglobe and level, and that will

759
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: that will give you an indication. You know, we we

760
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 1: take on in our in our natural environment, particularly if

761
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: you live in an urban area, if you work around vehicles,

762
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: you're going to take on a certain amount of carbon monoxide.

763
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: Not all you know, it's not like you just catch

764
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 1: a whiff of it and you die. It's not like that.

765
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: There's you know, our body can metabolize it. But when

766
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: you get an overload of it, and so what you're

767
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: looking for with that sample, what you're looking for with

768
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: that sample is to see if you're within lethal ranges.

769
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: And there are lethal ranges that are established. You know

770
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: that if you have this percentage on board in your system,

771
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 1: that you will not survive all right, or you're going

772
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: to have major problems down the road. So once you

773
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: get that eliminated scientifically, I think that that's pretty important.

774
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: The other thing that you would be looking for in

775
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: this case, because they're saying that it is a metal pipe,

776
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: they've identified that it's a three foot metal pipe. When

777
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist testifies to these insults, one of the

778
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: things they're going to do is both the prosecution and

779
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: the defense are going to probe this individual and ask

780
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: them are all of these injuries, what similarities exist with

781
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 1: these injuries? And what you're observing at the autopsy doc.

782
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: You know, if you if you're looking for certain you

783
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 1: know the margins of these these injuries. You know, I

784
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: talked about if you've got like a threaded edge on

785
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: the thing and you're you're holding you're holding it and

786
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: you're beating someone, are there any similarities between the marks

787
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: that are found on all three of these are all

788
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: four of these victims that you can go back and say,

789
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: yet this appears now you can't say it with you

790
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: can't say it with absolute And here's the big difference.

791
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: Absolute scientific certainty. You say it within a reasonable a

792
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: reasonable amount of scientific certainty. You can't say there's nothing

793
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: that's one hundred percent even when you talk about DNA,

794
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: you're talking about you know, when the person's testifying. But

795
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist will render an opinion that will say, yet,

796
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: it appears that a weapon similar to the weapon that

797
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: we have in question was used in each one of

798
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: these cases and brought about the death. So that's again,

799
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 1: you know, if you're kind of working your way down

800
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: the tier regarding you know, the forensic evidence. And then

801
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: I think the other big delineation here, Dave, is how

802
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: many strikes were there? Oh wow, okay, now you can

803
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: I think that many people can you know kind of

804
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: and I've guilty of this. They can opine as to well,

805
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: the more strikes you have, the more of a target

806
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: the individual was not necessarily if it if they if

807
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: they were trying to beat the life out of somebody, somebody,

808
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: there might be an individual. You know. We've got a

809
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 1: lady that has died. I saw her, saw her images.

810
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: She's rather diminutive, she's very tiny. I submit to you

811
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: that it would not take as much to kill her

812
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: as it would say one of the one of the males,

813
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: all right, So she might not be beaten to the

814
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: point where her head is a little pulpified. Remember what

815
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: the troopers said here. He said one of the reasons

816
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: he really that this was not carbon monoxide association was

817
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: because of carbon dioxide. This is a great line, Oh

818
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: my lord, talk about a log line for a movie

819
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: that you know, carbon dioxide doesn't cause your skull to

820
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: cave in, all right. So you're going to be looking

821
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: for the degree of trauma. How many times are they

822
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: struck over and over and over again. Whereas you might

823
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: have one or two on one person, you might have

824
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: multiple on others. And that's that's kind of hard man.

825
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: That's really hard to do an absolute with beatings in particular,

826
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: it's very difficult, Dave, to try to say they were

827
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,720
Speaker 1: struck this many times because you've got all of these

828
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: overlying injuries, those injuries that were generated in life, Dave,

829
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: You're going to have what are referred to as contusion abrasions.

830
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 1: And if you've got if you've got a person that's

831
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: being struck in the same spot every single time, those injuries,

832
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: the contusion abrasions become I don't know if the term

833
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: is they're overlapping. And the other part to this, too,

834
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: is that you're going to have commingling of blood at

835
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: the scene, not just on the scene, but also on

836
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: the weapon. You can have commingling of blood if he's

837
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: moving from one body to the next and he's spilt blood.

838
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 1: Remember again what the troopers said about the one victim,

839
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: there was a pool of blood. We note there are

840
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: other pools of blood. Well, if you move from one victim,

841
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: say the initial victim, to the next victim, you're going

842
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: to have blood deposition in the form of what appeared

843
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: to be footprints that might have originated from another person,

844
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 1: while in fact you're beating the other one to death.

845
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: A lot of complexity with this case, Dave, Well, the

846
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 2: one thing we do know is that Trusdell and Ramondus

847
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 2: Cooper were working on a vehicle together. And again we're

848
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 2: getting this information from the suspect in the crime and

849
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 2: what he blurted when police arrived, and his statements that

850
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 2: we don't know what will be in and what will

851
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 2: be thrown out. That'll be determined during the course of

852
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 2: the trial, but that while they're working on the he

853
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 2: inc and Romondus Cooper are working on the vehicle. Cooper

854
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 2: handed him the metal pipe. The victim hands it to

855
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 2: the suspect because they're working on a vehicle and he

856
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 2: needed this pipe for whatever they were doing, and Trusdell

857
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 2: says he lost it. Now, he does claim that he

858
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 2: hit Cooper first, he took him out first because he

859
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 2: was the biggest, and that Brown might have tried to

860
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: defend himself, and that you know, he did survive long

861
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 2: enough to be airlifted to the hospital and the two

862
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: women were both destroyed. Right there, that's pretty much what

863
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 2: we know. That there were things said by Trusdell two police,

864
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 2: and beyond that, the noises in his head that were

865
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 2: affecting him before the murders no longer existed after, so

866
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 2: we're going with the voices in the head scenario. So

867
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 2: they had him psychologically looked at before moving forward with

868
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 2: the trial. So just letting you know that's the standard

869
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,919
Speaker 2: that we're dealing with here in terms of Trusdale and

870
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 2: his admission of guilt and then pleading not guilty and

871
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 2: the case being at trial. Now. We'll have to keep

872
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 2: you updated on what happens once the devents has their day,

873
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 2: So as you're listening to this now, there will be

874
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 2: an update, and Joe and I will get back together

875
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 2: and make sure we provide that once the jury returns

876
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:33,720
Speaker 2: with their verdict.

877
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: I think that probably this is another again example of

878
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: you don't have to live in some huge metropolis for

879
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: evil to visit you. It can present itself, just like

880
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 1: it did in the Todd Moll's case, in a barn

881
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: with a corner, and evil can also visit in an

882
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: outbuilding being used as a garage to try to work

883
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: on an old car. You never know where it's coming from,

884
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: but I do know this. I do know that we

885
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: are not cannon fodder. That each one of us has value,

886
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: and as long as I'm doing this show that every

887
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 1: single victim will have value. None of us are merely

888
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: props in a movie. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this

889
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: is body Backs