1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. Cheryl Atkisson is an Emmy Award 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: winning investigative journalist and author known for her fearless and 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: it is fearless reporting and her commitment to holding the 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: powerful accountable. A former correspondent for CBS News, she was 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: at CNN, she was at PBS. She now hosts the 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: Sunday TV program Full Measure and the Full Measure After 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: Hours podcast, where she continues doing what she did, tackling 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: stories that those in the mainstream media won't or can't. 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: One of the stories she's covered is about the correlation 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: between vaccines and autism. One of the things we do 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: here on the show is amplify the work of other people. 12 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: If you enjoy this, I encourage you. At Kisson is 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: not easy to spell. It's at kisso n, but you 14 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: can find and Cheryl. Her first name is not easy either, 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: it's Sha Ryl. But her work is all online. I 16 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: encourage you to support her, to watch more of what 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: she's done. She does great, just brilliant investigative work, and 18 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: hopefully we're going to deliver her some new fans after 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: today by amplifying her work. 20 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: Here we go year after year, Autism continues to rise 21 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 2: at an alarming rate in American children, one fact few 22 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: would dispute. So why is the topic so toxic in debate? 23 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: If you would want to hold a hearing on an 24 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: issue like vaccines and autism, your own leadership might fight 25 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 2: you on that because of the financial influence the pharmaceutical lists. 26 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 3: So they wouldn't fight you. If they would kill it, 27 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 3: it's dead. 28 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: This week we tackle the taboo subject of autism and 29 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: links to vaccines as the Trump administration CDC begins to 30 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: actually follow the science. 31 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: If you're living with moderate to severe plax riasis. 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 3: Or nineteen ninety seven, you rarely saw a drug add 33 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: and that's because the FDA enforced their regulation. 34 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 4: The new head of the FDA is promising to pump 35 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 4: the brakes on what he's called hill pushers. 36 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 5: We're going to crack down. 37 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: This week, a new sheriff steps into the wild West 38 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: of pharmaceutical advertising. 39 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 4: After fifty years of striking fear and America's enemies. A 40 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 4: farewell for a fierce airframe? Is there any other plane 41 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:33,239 Speaker 4: in the Air Force that can do what the A 42 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 4: ten can do? 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 6: Not? 44 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 4: In my opinion, we look at an air base pivot 45 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 4: toward the new face of war. 46 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 2: Welcome the full measure. I'm Cheryl Ackison. We begin today 47 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: with America's still growing autism epidemic, a crisis that in 48 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: terms of sheer numbers, deserves much more attention than it's 49 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 2: gotten over two and a half decades. The newest data, 50 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: updated every two years, continue to show an alarming climb. Today, 51 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 2: at least one in thirty one eight year olds have autism. 52 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: That's more than two point two million children. 53 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 5: One area that we are closely examining as the president 54 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 5: is vaccines. 55 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: But a White House event with President trumpet his side, 56 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior announced a massive research 57 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: effort to identify possible root causes, including food dies, painkillers 58 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: during pregnancy, and vaccines. Seven year old twins Drew and 59 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: Dylan are taking a break from schoolwork, which can be 60 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: a special challenge. Their parents, Kimberly and Demique Adams, say 61 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: they first knew something was wrong when the boys were toddlers. 62 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 7: Their language started to regress. It seemed like their connection 63 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 7: was different around two a little bit you know before too, 64 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 7: and so they weren't responding to their names. So they 65 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 7: were just regressing in some of their skills. 66 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 2: Did you go to the doctor and say we're concerned, 67 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: or did the doctor do some milestone test or. 68 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 6: No, my wife's intuition drove it. 69 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 2: They enrolled the twins in early intervention and got the 70 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: official diagnosis autism. 71 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 7: You do grieve, you know, You know a lot of 72 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 7: people don't talk about that guilt that parents feel when 73 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 7: they get the diagnosis and their heartbroken because we were, 74 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 7: you know, because we didn't know what was ahead of us. 75 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 2: Drew and Dylan are among America's autistic children who were visible. 76 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: They can go out in public, but more than three 77 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: hundred thirty thousand children have autism so severe they're rarely 78 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: seen by the outside world. Mary Holland heads up the 79 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 2: nonprofit Children's Health Defense, which advocates on child health issues. 80 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: What is the current status of how much autism is 81 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 2: in the United States today? 82 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 8: So the current data is that one in thirty one 83 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 8: children age eight in the United States has autism. 84 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: Like many parents, Holland says, her son regressed and do 85 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 2: autism after his battery of vaccines at age two. 86 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 8: It was very clear there was no cojun explanation for 87 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 8: what was happening to him. Other than he had had 88 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 8: very serious toxic exposures through his early recommended vaccination schedule. 89 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 8: There's no such thing as a genetic epidemic. It must 90 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 8: be epigenetic or purely environmental. 91 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 2: And simple terms, meaning there could be a genetic component 92 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 2: that predispose as somebody to the injury if they have 93 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 2: some kind of trigger or other exposure. 94 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 8: So you brought this out most importantly, Cheryl in your 95 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 8: interview with Bernadine Healy, who was at the time the 96 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 8: head of or had just retired recently as the head 97 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 8: of the National Institutes of Health. 98 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: It sounds like you don't think the hypothesis of a 99 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 2: link between vaccines and autism is completely irrational. 100 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 9: When I first heard that there was a link between 101 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 9: autism and vaccines, I thought, well, that's silly. The more 102 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 9: you delve into it, if you look at the basic science, 103 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 9: if you look at the research that's been done in animals, 104 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 9: if you also look at some of these individual cases, 105 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 9: and if you look at the evidence that there is 106 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 9: no link, what I come away with is the question 107 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 9: has not been answered. This is the time when we 108 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 9: do have the opportunity to understand whether or not there 109 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 9: are susceptible children perhaps genetically, perhaps they have a metabolic issue, 110 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 9: mitochondrial disorder, immunological issue that makes them more susceptible to 111 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 9: vaccines plural, or to one particular vaccine, or to a 112 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 9: component of vaccine like mercury. 113 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 8: Probably there's a subset of people who have a certain 114 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 8: genetic predisposition, and when they come in contact with the 115 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 8: mercury in vaccines, or the aluminum in vaccines, or all 116 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 8: of the antigens, the formaldehyde, the polysorbate eighty, there's all 117 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 8: kinds of very toxic ingredients in the childhood vaccine schedule. 118 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: Associations between vaccines and autism are loudly disputed, yet well 119 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: documented in more than two hundred scientific papers in court documents. 120 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: In addition, autism once appeared on the warning label for 121 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: a DTaP vaccine. The government secretly agreed vaccines triggered autism 122 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 2: in a girl named Hannah Poling and paid her millions 123 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: in a landmark settlement, but had the record sealed so 124 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 2: the public wouldn't know CDC's top immunization safe The official, 125 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: Frank DiStefano, admitted vaccines may trigger autism in vulnerable children 126 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: like Hannopoling. CDC's senior scientist, William Thompson, claimed the agency 127 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 2: covered up data linking MMR vaccines to autism and black boys. 128 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 2: Famed pediatric neurologist doctor Andrew Zimmerman reversed his original stance 129 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: and determined vaccines can cause autism after all, but says 130 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: when he told Justice Department lawyers, they fired him as 131 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 2: an expert witness and covered up his opinion. And most recently, 132 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 2: a study reported vaccinated kids face a one hundred and 133 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: seventy percent greater risk of autism. Both Democrats and Republicans 134 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: have told me there's been a long standing effort in 135 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: Congress to protect the vaccine industry. If you would want 136 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: to hold a hearing on an issue like vaccines and autism, 137 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: your own leadership might fight you on that because of 138 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 2: the financial influence the pharmaceuticals. 139 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 3: No, they wouldn't fight you. They would kill it. It's dead. 140 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 3: They don't even want to discuss it. It's dead on arrival. 141 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 3: If you, if you as an individual member, want to 142 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 3: take on the pharmaceutical industries, it's forgeted. 143 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 2: Can you describe an incident or just how that would go. 144 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 3: It would typically be in a hallway or on the street, 145 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 3: and you know, people would come up to you and say, 146 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 3: you know, you really need to you know, back off 147 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 3: on this. It could be it could be bad for 148 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 3: the community, or bad for the country, or bad for you. 149 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: For every study or allegation linking vaccines and autism, the 150 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: industry and other vaccine defenders have lengthy counterpoints. 151 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 10: No, vaccines do not cause autism. It just so happens 152 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 10: that kids get several vaccines around the same time that 153 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 10: some children start to show signs of autism. But that's 154 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 10: a coincidence, not a cause. 155 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 9: Based on dozens of studies and everything I know as 156 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 9: a physician and a scientist, there's no link between autism 157 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 9: and vaccines. 158 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: There are a lot of other chemical exposures kids are 159 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,119 Speaker 2: getting today as well as someone who focused on vaccines 160 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: early on, are you looking at other contributing causes. 161 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 8: We're also looking at the water. We're also looking at 162 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 8: the air. We're also looking at the food supply. We're 163 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 8: looking at the pesticides their youth, and we believe that 164 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 8: it is a toxic load that we have to look at. 165 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 8: You can't look at one factor. They integrate, they're synergistic. 166 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 2: This past week, health Secretary, Kennedy said no stone will 167 00:10:59,360 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 2: be left on. 168 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 5: Historically, NIH has focused almost solely on politically save and 169 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 5: entirely fruitless research about the genetic drivers of autism, and 170 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 5: I would be like studying the genetic drivers of lung 171 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 5: cancer without looking at cigarettes. And that's what AIH has 172 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 5: been doing for twenty years. 173 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: In addition, based on NIH research, the FDA says it's 174 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 2: approving a prescription form of an essential B vitamin for 175 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 2: treating autistic children with speech issues. The American Academy of Pediatrics, 176 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 2: funded in part by the vaccine industry, doesn't want any 177 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 2: part of Kennedy's effort examining autism. When it comes to vaccines, 178 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 2: the group says devoting more research dollars to answer a 179 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: question that is already known does not add to our 180 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 2: knowledge about the safety of vaccines. It does a disservice 181 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: to individuals with autism and their families by diverting funding 182 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 2: that is needed to learn more about autism and how 183 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: we can strengthen supportive communities. For their part, the Adams 184 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: say they do not blame vaccines for their children's autism. 185 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 2: With help the twins that progressed from no language and 186 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: few skills to conversations and interactions. 187 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 7: Who I mean, we don't believe in a cure because 188 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 7: I don't believe it's a disease, right, So it's nothing 189 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 7: to cure. It's a neurotype, right, And so you have 190 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 7: to get the right services in order to adapt to 191 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 7: the way someone learns or someone thinks, or the way 192 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 7: someone's brain is wired. 193 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 6: But when I tell you the the what I got 194 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 6: from a how to love differently, yeah, it's nothing any 195 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 6: child could have gave me as far as me as 196 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 6: an individual evolving and developing, right. And I just think 197 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 6: when people see some of these things they think of 198 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 6: the negative, right, But like the special like joy I 199 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 6: get in their milestones, the small, small incremental milestones that 200 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 6: I just just took for branded if I had a 201 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 6: typical kid like you can't beat that. 202 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 2: For more on this story, listen to my podcast Full 203 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 2: Measure after Hours. 204 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: If you like the Michael Berry Show and podcast, please 205 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a 206 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: nice review of our podcast. 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