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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session one of the Therapy for

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Speaker 1: Black Girl's podcast. This week will be digging into trauma,

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Speaker 1: what it is, how it's caused, and how you can

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Speaker 1: manage it. But first let's show some love to our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: to our episode. For this conversation, I was joined by

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Speaker 1: Shakisha Spencer. Chakisha is a licensed professional counselor in Georgia

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Speaker 1: specializing in working with adult survivors of childhood trauma and

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Speaker 1: those dealing with feelings of depression, anxiety, and being overwhelmed.

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Speaker 1: With eighteen years of experience in the mental health field.

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Speaker 1: Jakisha has worked in several settings, including intensive residential, in patient, hospital,

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Speaker 1: crisis centers, and private practice. She's facilitated several trainings and

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Speaker 1: workshops and has been a guest lecturer and adjunct professor.

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Speaker 1: Jakisha is the owner of Grace Anthony Counseling, LLC, a

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Speaker 1: private practice where she provides mental health and behavioral health

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Speaker 1: services to residents of the Atlanta metro area. Chakisha and

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Speaker 1: I discussed how experiences can be traumatic even when we

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Speaker 1: don't think they are, some of the common symptoms of trauma,

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Speaker 1: how working with the therapist can help manage trauma, and

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Speaker 1: she shared her favorite resources. If you hear something while

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Speaker 1: listening that really resonates with you, please share with us

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Speaker 1: on social media using the hashtag TBG in Session. Here's

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Speaker 1: our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Shakisha.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to have you here. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for having me. Yeah, I'm excited because you know, I

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Speaker 1: think we hear a lot about trauma these days. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind have been in a lot of different places,

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Speaker 1: and I think some people are confused, like what does

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Speaker 1: that even mean? Like have I had a traumatic experience

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Speaker 1: and I just don't even know it. Like, what is trauma? Like?

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Speaker 1: Does it mean I had to have a car as

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Speaker 1: it did? What are we talking about when we are

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Speaker 1: describing things as trauma? Sure? A great question. So in

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Speaker 1: the simplest term, trauma is to find as an experience

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Speaker 1: that causes emotional distress, right, So a lot of us

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Speaker 1: have experiences that cause that. The difference I think with

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Speaker 1: different types of trauma is something that affects your life.

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Speaker 1: You may have an intense emotional response too, and so

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Speaker 1: I like to break it down. A lot of clinicians

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Speaker 1: also like to break it down in two different categories,

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Speaker 1: big T trauma or little key trauma. And the easiest

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Speaker 1: way to describe that is big T trauma is things

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Speaker 1: that most of us recognize as something that was traumatic, right.

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Speaker 1: Domestic violence, natural disasters, a car accident, death of a

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Speaker 1: loved one, especially if it was a sudden death, or

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Speaker 1: if it was by means of suicide or murder or

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Speaker 1: neglect some people don't recognize. But medical trauma is the

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Speaker 1: thing as well, right, And that could be anything from

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Speaker 1: you have a complex trauma related to multiple medical issues

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Speaker 1: that you may have, or there may have been a

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Speaker 1: surgery that didn't go well, and your continuously recovery. Experiencing terrorism,

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Speaker 1: and of course abuse physical, sexual, mental, emotional, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of people don't group this in there, but spiritual

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Speaker 1: abuse as well. So those are all the big trauma ways.

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Speaker 1: I said that my big t trauma. The other is

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Speaker 1: think that most of us don't think about as trauma.

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Speaker 1: Losing your job is kind of a big deal. If

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Speaker 1: you are an adult, you've been in your fields for

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Speaker 1: years and all of a sudden you get fired, especially

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Speaker 1: if you feel like that firing is unjust, that could

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Speaker 1: be very traumatic. Moving from one job to the next job,

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Speaker 1: moving period, whether it's moving states to moving into a

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Speaker 1: new house, can be very traumatic as well. Recently, I

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Speaker 1: lived in a house for ten years and it's the

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Speaker 1: only home that my children ever knew, and I moved

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Speaker 1: last year, and we have to think about how could

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Speaker 1: this potentially affect any of us because this is the

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Speaker 1: only space that we've known for such a long term.

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Speaker 1: Anything from the four definitely, infidelity, sometimes legal issues, being

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Speaker 1: charged with the crime that you didn't do, or doing

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Speaker 1: the crime but didn't want to get caught I can

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Speaker 1: always be traumatic as well. Work stress, financial issues, and

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Speaker 1: then other people don't necessarily think about vicarious trauma, which

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Speaker 1: is not necessarily of experiencing the trauma yourself, but either

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Speaker 1: witnessing that trauma or being close to someone who's had

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Speaker 1: a traumatic. Okay, Shisha. So I'm wondering, is there uh

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Speaker 1: distinction between when you would call something like a move

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Speaker 1: or a layoff or something. Is there a distinction between

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Speaker 1: when you would call that a trauma versus a stresses

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Speaker 1: great question. I would say it depends on the circumstances.

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Speaker 1: So let's say, if it's a move, it's a stressor

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Speaker 1: to move, period. Right, most of us almost none of

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Speaker 1: us like to move. We're very comfortable in our faces.

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Speaker 1: We create atmospheres where we can still say, but if

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Speaker 1: the move was abrupt, or if the move came at

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Speaker 1: an unexpected time, meaning I just lost my job and

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Speaker 1: I also was told I'm being evicted at the same time,

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Speaker 1: or because I've been out of work all this time

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Speaker 1: and now I have to move, or I have to

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Speaker 1: move from the only place I've ever known and moved

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Speaker 1: back in with my mom, and the circumstances surrounding that

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Speaker 1: are already traumatic. So those would be traumatic experiences related

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Speaker 1: to moving, Thank god you. So it really is more

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Speaker 1: about the context about what's going on as opposed to

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Speaker 1: just whatever the thing is exactly. Again, using just as

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Speaker 1: an example, we all cognitively recognize that death is going

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Speaker 1: to happen. It happens to all of us. We realize

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Speaker 1: we experienced that. But this is a different between somebody

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Speaker 1: passing away that you're really close to, is somebody being

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Speaker 1: taken from you or snatched from you circumstances beyond you?

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Speaker 1: Got it? Okay, So again about the context, right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: how do we know something has actually been a trauma

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Speaker 1: for us? So sometimes there can be symptoms such as

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Speaker 1: anxiety such as depression or sadness, shame and guilt. A

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Speaker 1: lot of type of trauma responses manifesting nightmare. Sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: physical too that a lot of people don't realize that.

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Speaker 1: It can be nausea, It can be dizziness, having trouble

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Speaker 1: sleeping or eating. Whether it's I'm having a hard time

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Speaker 1: staying to sleep and I keep waking up in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night, or I just can't sleep at all,

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Speaker 1: I'm eating too much or too little. Sometimes symptoms to

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Speaker 1: trauma related to your g I issues having an up

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Speaker 1: at stomach of course, abusing drugs to alcohol, but there

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Speaker 1: are also trauma responses that we don't necessarily realize as

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Speaker 1: possible trauma responses, and I can get into some of

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Speaker 1: that as well. Yes, please, Some of the things that

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Speaker 1: I've seen in my practice particularly has been things like

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Speaker 1: being super busy. A lot of people have somebody who's

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Speaker 1: always been do that. French is always on the go,

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Speaker 1: that never sits down. It's always up and move, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes that can be related today anxiety, but that anxiety

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Speaker 1: may be related to fear, and the spear be could

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Speaker 1: be directly connected to past trauma. A lot of that

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Speaker 1: sometimes is related to avoid it. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: sit and have to deal with how I feel. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to sit and think about things that have

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Speaker 1: happened to me, because if I sit down, that means

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna think about it. If I think about it,

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Speaker 1: I have to feel it. If I feel it, I

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Speaker 1: need to do something about it. And doing something about

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Speaker 1: it it's too painful because I don't want to face that,

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Speaker 1: and so instead of that, I'd rather just say it's

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Speaker 1: busy as possible. But sometimes being a busy bee can

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Speaker 1: be a good thing, but sometimes it's a way of avoiding.

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Speaker 1: Other way is that it's manifests itself. Is people who

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Speaker 1: seem to like have it all together. Everything seems perfect right,

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Speaker 1: but there's sometimes have these maths that they have on

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Speaker 1: and feel like nobody really sees or understands the struggles

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Speaker 1: that I'm having up underneath all of this awesomeness that

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Speaker 1: I'm showing to the world, but it shows up a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. Meaning everybody thinks that everything is great,

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Speaker 1: but you are continuously and unhealthy relationships over and over

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Speaker 1: and over again. And there's a pattern of that because

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Speaker 1: you're afraid of abandonment or you're afraid of being alone,

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Speaker 1: giving so much of yourself that you neglect yourself and

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Speaker 1: you're so busy focused on everybody else. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people struggle with self care. So those are some other ways. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I just want to stay here for us. Second

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Speaker 1: sinking Shia, because I think some of those things. So one,

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Speaker 1: I'm really glad you shared that because I think most

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Speaker 1: people would not recognize that as being in response to

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Speaker 1: maybe a traumatic experience. But I think the other thing

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Speaker 1: that is important to pay attention to related to that

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Speaker 1: is then how you can then become rewarded for that behavior.

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Speaker 1: So you're the person who's a busy bee. So people

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Speaker 1: keep putting you on committees and they want you to

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Speaker 1: do all of these things or you know that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing, and so in some ways it's almost reinforced

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Speaker 1: for you not to take care of the traumatic experience

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Speaker 1: because look at all these accolades I've now gotten. Because

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Speaker 1: this is the response that I developed, absolutely very very true.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we're so busy taking care of everybody else, that's

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Speaker 1: the one person that we continue to say no to

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Speaker 1: is us. And it seems to make sense, right, I'm

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Speaker 1: doing all these accomplishments. I have all these great things

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Speaker 1: going on. I have all of these accolades and all

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Speaker 1: of this wonderful attention, and I'm meeting all of the

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Speaker 1: professional and sometimes personal goals that I've set for myself.

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Speaker 1: But I am a mess, right, So my health is

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Speaker 1: failing in some ways. I've been carrying the same extra

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Speaker 1: fifty pounds that I don't want to carry a relationship

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Speaker 1: with my kids or my husband or my mom or whomever.

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Speaker 1: Isn't the way that I really wanted to be. And

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Speaker 1: I just keep calling things onto the plate because I

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Speaker 1: am avoiding dealing with really tough stuff, and so all

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Speaker 1: of that can be definitely related to trauma because most

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Speaker 1: of us don't want to have to deal with painful

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Speaker 1: experiences of our past. Yeah, and so would would makes

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Speaker 1: us avoid that Shikisha like, why why are we so

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Speaker 1: avoiding to want to kind of deal with these painful

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Speaker 1: things that have happened to us? Yeah? I think there

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Speaker 1: are a couple of reasons. One of the main ones,

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Speaker 1: I think is again, because we'd like to feel good,

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Speaker 1: so we do lots of things to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we feel better, but some of us don't might to

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Speaker 1: sit in pain. And what I mean by that is

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Speaker 1: not sitting pain for the sake of sitting in pain,

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Speaker 1: but to be really aware and be really mindful of

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Speaker 1: painful experiences that we have and be mindful of how

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Speaker 1: those experiences affect us, have affected us, and are currently

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Speaker 1: affecting us. That's part of the challenge. And I missed

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Speaker 1: the other part of your question. I was asking why

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Speaker 1: is it so difficult for us to actually approach these

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Speaker 1: painful feelings? So we want to avoid pain, we want

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Speaker 1: to feel good, but sometimes in our pursuit of avoiding pain,

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Speaker 1: we do things that are untealthy for us. I am

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Speaker 1: a firm believer that sometimes the reason why we it

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Speaker 1: addicted to substances alcohol and drugs is because we are

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Speaker 1: avoiding really unpleasant feelings or really unpleasant experiences. And so

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Speaker 1: sometimes people that are addicted to things, For people that

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Speaker 1: over indulgence things, it doesn't start out as an over indulgence. Nobody,

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Speaker 1: you know, socially drinks and eventually says I think I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna become an alcoholic. Most of the time it's the

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Speaker 1: one glass of wine on the week is and then

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Speaker 1: your job gets more stressful, or people are piling more

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Speaker 1: things onto you, or you don't want to have to deal,

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Speaker 1: and so it becomes before you know it, it's a

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Speaker 1: blottle Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and then it creeps us

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Speaker 1: to Thursday, you know what I mean. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of time, you know, people don't want to avoid because

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Speaker 1: the pain is just way too difficult. The reality of

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Speaker 1: it is way too difficult. And then if I own it,

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Speaker 1: I'll have to do something about it. Sometimes doing something

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Speaker 1: about it is just as hard. Yeah, And I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people also get stuck in that they

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Speaker 1: don't know what they're doing something about it is, right, like,

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Speaker 1: what what do I even do to make myself feel

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Speaker 1: are about this? And of course you know, I think

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Speaker 1: this is where therapy comes in. Um So, can you

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Speaker 1: can you share how therapy can help somebody work through trauma? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you have somebody and of course I'm a fan of

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Speaker 1: therapy alty every day, but you have somebody who is

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Speaker 1: non judgmental, who is in your corner, who is your

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Speaker 1: number one cheerleader, but also an accountability partner. Therapy can

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Speaker 1: be really really helpful to help you work through some

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Speaker 1: of the past feelings, how to um connect those past

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Speaker 1: feelings to some of the hurt that you're going with

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Speaker 1: through currently, to make sure that you don't repeat the

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Speaker 1: same patterns, the same patterns that you have been doing

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Speaker 1: over and over and over again. And so sometimes the

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Speaker 1: stigma related to mental health and stigma related to therapy

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Speaker 1: can be a hinderant. Sometimes we also think, oh, I

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Speaker 1: have a support system, I have my church family, I

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Speaker 1: have my my regular family, I have my friends, I

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Speaker 1: have my girls, and so I don't necessarily need to

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Speaker 1: go to therapy. But there's something that all of those

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Speaker 1: things combined can be helpful. I don't want to say yes,

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Speaker 1: therapy can help you in ways that your friends can't,

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Speaker 1: which is very true, but having a full support system

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Speaker 1: can be way more beneficial if you had one thing

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Speaker 1: or the other got you. And so I'm curious, Shikisha,

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Speaker 1: if another thing that stops people is this idea that, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: that's not that big of a deal, right, So why

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Speaker 1: would I go and talk with the therapist about that?

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Speaker 1: Like if we go back to the example of you know,

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Speaker 1: having to move because like you got a victor, or

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Speaker 1: because you lost your job and can't afford your home anymore,

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Speaker 1: people may not interpret that as a traumatic experience, and

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Speaker 1: so then feel like, why would I have to go

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Speaker 1: to therapy? Right? Well, sometimes we've been taught, especially in

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Speaker 1: the African American community, to suck it up to keep

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Speaker 1: it moving, that we have trials and tribulations and our

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Speaker 1: resiliency comes through getting over, getting packed, working through these issues.

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Speaker 1: And while part of that is true, we hadn't been

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Speaker 1: taught that these issues do affect us and we need

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Speaker 1: to talk about them and work through them as well.

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Speaker 1: And so yes, to other people, it may seem like

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Speaker 1: moving is not that big of a deal. Or the

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Speaker 1: abuse that I suffered as a child. It shouldn't affect me.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm good, I get over that. But have you

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Speaker 1: really worked through that or did you compartmentalize it in

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Speaker 1: a way where you don't think about it anymore. That's

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Speaker 1: not the same as healing. That's another level of avoidance.

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Speaker 1: That's sleeping stuff under the rug. That's not addressing it.

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Speaker 1: But that's not necessarily true healing. And also helping other

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Speaker 1: people understand why things are important to you. Right, and

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Speaker 1: so if if I have this move or if I

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Speaker 1: change this job and now I'm in a more stressful situation,

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Speaker 1: some people may not understand why that's important. But that's

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Speaker 1: again why therapy can be super helpful, because you have

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Speaker 1: somebody who get it. You have somebody who will understand,

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Speaker 1: and they're not putting their own perceptions and interpretations in

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Speaker 1: the way that can make you feel like your thoughts

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Speaker 1: shouldn't matter, or that you're feeling should be minimized. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like really making it so that your experience feels valid

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Speaker 1: because I think sometimes you know, your friends, I think

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Speaker 1: friends and family sometimes they just really don't want to

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Speaker 1: see you hurt, and so you know they will say

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Speaker 1: stuff like, Oh, that's not that big of a deal.

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Speaker 1: You'll be fine, you'll find another job or you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: but not realizing the impact that it could have had

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Speaker 1: on you. So then you can talk with the therapist

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Speaker 1: who really helps you to sit with like, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: that is a really big deal. Mm hmmm. And I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes that can be an aha moment for clients

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Speaker 1: to realize, one, my experience matters, It's okay for me

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Speaker 1: to want to be validated and the things that I

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Speaker 1: have to deal with, and that these things were hard

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Speaker 1: for me, So what do I do with that now?

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Speaker 1: How do I work to do that now? A lot

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Speaker 1: of times we don't weren't even given the space to

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Speaker 1: even think in those terms, So that can be really helpful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, you you kind of mentioned this already, like

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Speaker 1: just the whole idea that you know, there has been

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Speaker 1: so much a history of struggle for black people. Well

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Speaker 1: that's not our entire history, but it is a part

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Speaker 1: of our history, you know, And that so you're always

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Speaker 1: having to go You're kind of sometimes used to things

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Speaker 1: not going well, and so you're kind of just going, going, going,

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Speaker 1: and you don't realize like how culative, you know, all

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Speaker 1: of these things can be for you exactly, And that

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Speaker 1: kind of goes back to what complexx FROMA is right.

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Speaker 1: It's an exposure of multiple traumatic events, and so we

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Speaker 1: don't think about that from our lifetime. If we had

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Speaker 1: a parent who had a mental health issue that was

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Speaker 1: undiagnosed or that we didn't recognize was a mental health issue.

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Speaker 1: But people in the neighborhood that we grew up at

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Speaker 1: knew someone's wrong with your mama, right, and so they

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Speaker 1: teased us all the time. And then we had to

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Speaker 1: take care of our siblings because you know, your parents

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Speaker 1: couldn't necessarily do it because they were dealing with their

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Speaker 1: own stuff. And then we grew up and realized, I'm

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Speaker 1: always taking care of everybody else. I took my need second.

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Speaker 1: But I'm also really smart. I've got all these degrees,

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Speaker 1: I got really awesome things going for me. But everybody

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Speaker 1: how these things on me. You can trace all of

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Speaker 1: that complex trauma back to the beginning, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: realizing we have to take a moment and learn that

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Speaker 1: our journey is awesome, but there's some healing that needs

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Speaker 1: to be done that helps us get all these great

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Speaker 1: things that we have. But we never really dealt with

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Speaker 1: the underlying traumatic experiences that we've had, and so now

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with the aftermath and don't know what to

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Speaker 1: do with it. So how light somebody even recognize that shakisha?

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Speaker 1: Because I think, you know somebody who is doing well

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Speaker 1: at work, you know, the personal life is going great,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, just a lot of things going

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Speaker 1: on well in their lives, but they do have that history.

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Speaker 1: What would even make them say like, oh, I need

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Speaker 1: to talk with someone about like this stuff in my childhood.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes And I'm not saying everybody has to go to

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Speaker 1: therapy of course to deal with these major issues, because

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Speaker 1: that isn't always the case. Therapy can be helpful at

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Speaker 1: any point. But sometimes I think we know there are

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Speaker 1: areas of our life that just isn't working well, or

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Speaker 1: that we've tried to quite to get it together, and

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Speaker 1: it's just it's just not happening right. And so um,

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Speaker 1: I know, I use the weight loss um example earlier.

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Speaker 1: If I've been carrying around this extra fifty hundred fifty

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Speaker 1: pounds and I keep trying to do these crash diets

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Speaker 1: and none of this is working. Have we ever sat

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Speaker 1: and really thought about is this literal weight that we're

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Speaker 1: caring or is it emotional weights that we're carrying? And

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Speaker 1: if it's emotional way, where does that come from? And

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Speaker 1: if I'm stressed eating, where is the stress coming from?

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Speaker 1: And where did I learn those habits? So again, it's

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Speaker 1: not just about I have this weight and I have

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Speaker 1: to deal with being unhealthy because of that, and I

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Speaker 1: don't like it. I don't like the way I look

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Speaker 1: and that was causing all these self esteem and self

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Speaker 1: worth issues all of that, But where does it trace

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Speaker 1: back to? And so sometimes it can be issues like that,

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Speaker 1: and it can be simple stuff. I don't know about

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Speaker 1: simple as the right word, but what other people would minimize,

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Speaker 1: I'll put it that way. Whereas you have this unhealthy

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Speaker 1: relay ship with your husband who has constantly put everything

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Speaker 1: on you, and he goes to work, he provides for

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Speaker 1: the house, but you don't have an intimate relationship with him,

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Speaker 1: And what I mean by intimacy is emotional instancy. But

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Speaker 1: you just keep it moving because it's gonna be okay.

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Speaker 1: It's not a big deal. He provides for us when

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Speaker 1: we go out, and people think that everything's okay, but

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Speaker 1: you're inherently unhappy. Well, have you ever really thought about

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Speaker 1: where that comes from? How can I allow people to

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Speaker 1: do things to me that are not okay? Why do

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00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 1: I allow negative things to happen to me and people

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Speaker 1: to treat me in certain ways and have feel helpless

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Speaker 1: and feel I have no control over that? Where does

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Speaker 1: that trace back to? And sometimes it could be related

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Speaker 1: to past trauma? Got it? Okay? So what kinds of things?

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00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 1: What happened? Tikisha? If we don't deal with these traumatic experiences,

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Speaker 1: whether we recognize it or not, like, what might our

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00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: life look like if we don't actually do the work

404
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: to do the healing around this? Yeah, I think will

405
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: be constantly unhappy, and I think we'll wear kind of

406
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 1: this mask and pretend that things are better and things

407
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: can be good, but things can be really good if

408
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 1: we were healed. Things can be great, but they can

409
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 1: be awesome if we really took out the time to

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00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 1: really address some of the past stuff that we've been

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00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: doing this And are there signs because you you talked

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Speaker 1: a little bit earlier about um, how compartmentalizing is not

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Speaker 1: healing and so you know, are there as signs that

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00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 1: somebody would know that they feel like, Okay, I've really

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00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 1: done this work, Like, how might life look differently if

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00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: you do actually do the work. Yeah, I think you'd

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00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: be in a much better emotional space. I think you'd

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00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: have really good boundaries, you know, know it's a complete sentence,

419
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 1: and learning how to choose yourself instead of choosing everyone else,

420
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: having really good boundaries with family, friends, and your work life,

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00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: being able to take care of yourself, practicing really good

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00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: self love, recognizing your self worth that adating yourself when

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Speaker 1: other people doesn't seem to validate you. I think those

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00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: are all really good ways for us to say, I

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00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: feel like I'm in a really good space. I am content.

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00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: I know really from within that I'm in a really

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00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: good space. You know, therapy is are always helpful, you know,

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00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,360
Speaker 1: to help us get to this place. But when you're

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00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: able to have a level of peace and contentment within

430
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: your soul, I think you you found your own nirvana. So, Jokisha,

431
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: I know that there is also like this research that

432
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: talks about how people who have had traumas in the

433
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: past often end up being targets for a future traumatic experiences.

434
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about kind of what

435
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 1: drives that, because I think so we may kind of

436
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: has to kind of get around this because I often

437
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 1: see like these conversations on social media about kind of

438
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: you attracting trauma into your life. That always kind of

439
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: makes me uncomfortable because in some ways it feels like

440
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: a victim blaming. But they're is some there is some

441
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 1: research that kind of backs up the idea that like

442
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: you might find yourself in multiple traumatic experiences by virtue

443
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: of having the first traumatic experience. Yeah, I would agree

444
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: that there's some validity to that, but I agree with you.

445
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, we determine our own destiny.

446
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: I will say though, that if you don't recognize that

447
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 1: a traumatic experience has affected you in one form or another,

448
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: it does set you up to have people in your

449
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: life who are not good for you, or to have

450
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: multiple experiences in your life for your decision making affected

451
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: by your past trauma. And so, you know, I really

452
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: encourage folks to do the work, you know, not just

453
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: being in therapy, but do your own soul searching and

454
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: do your own healing journey as well to figure out

455
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: how has my path impacted what's going on with me?

456
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: Because you know, positive energy attracts positive energy, and sometimes

457
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: it's not just the energy. But it's I'm looking at

458
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: people who have hurt me, and I'm always choosing people

459
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: who continue to hurt me, you know what I mean.

460
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: So if I've been in a really unpleasant relationship, if

461
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: I've been a domestic violent survivor, if I've been an

462
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: abuse survivor. Sometimes we get into relationships with people who

463
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: do not have our best interests at heart. But that's

464
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: because we don't have feelings of self worth. We think

465
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: that we do. We know that we love us, but

466
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: we don't love us enough to choose better for ourselves

467
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: or to continue to put ourselves in a situation that's unhealthy.

468
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: So I could see that as as a way that

469
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: trauma to reach trauma to the speech. Yeah, and I

470
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: guess I'm trying to figure out, like where is that

471
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: line of kind of victim blaming versus, you know, kind

472
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: of being aware of how your trauma maybe causes you

473
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: to make decisions that may not be in your best interests. Yeah,

474
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: and that's a fine mind at least, I feel like

475
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,160
Speaker 1: right to try and kind of figure that out. How

476
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 1: do I figure out the difference between I'm constantly choosing

477
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: different other traumatic experiences because of my past trauma or

478
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do things in a really healthy way

479
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: and things are working out for me. I would say

480
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: one of the great ways to do that has become

481
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: really self aware, to be mindful of how you feel,

482
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: what you think, how other people make you feel, how

483
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: other people make you think, and being really self aware.

484
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: Once we are aware and we know how the world

485
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: around us affects us and how we affect the world

486
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: around us, we can be really cognizant of who we

487
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: decide to let inside of our world. Got you, okay? Yeah?

488
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: And I do think it is important, you know, if

489
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: nothing else, for people to recognize that trauma definitely impacts

490
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: your decision making. And I think especially trauma when we're

491
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 1: very young and still impressionable, because a lot of things

492
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: then just become the way things have always been done,

493
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,959
Speaker 1: and so we don't recognize that everybody's experience is not

494
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: like that. And so you know, when you make decisions

495
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: about future partners and you know, maybe jobs and all

496
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: of these kinds of things, you're making it from the

497
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: lens of a place that has been impacted by trauma

498
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: in a way that may be different for someone who

499
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: has not had that traumatic experience. Absolutely very true. I

500
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: absolutely agree. Yeah. So, Jakisha, what are some of your

501
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: favorite resources to recommend for people who are, you know,

502
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: either working through traumatic experiences or wants to learn more

503
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: about like how trauma impacts their lives. One of the

504
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: ones that I always recommend, it's one of my favorites,

505
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: is The Body Tis Forbid That whole than the Culte.

506
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: It is one of my favorites. It talked about how

507
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: the mind, the body, of the spirit are all interconnected,

508
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: and how even when things happened to us a long

509
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: time ago, the body remembers kind of like if you

510
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: are in a car that it happened at an intersection

511
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: and you tempt up every time you get to a

512
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: soft sign um. That's because the body remember that they're

513
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: a traumatic experience, been at that point. So the book

514
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: really talked a little bit about how you can kind

515
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: of work through that. One of my favorite. Yeah, I

516
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: feel like it's a great, like comprehensive one and one

517
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: that like lots of people can kind of relate to.

518
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: I agree. So, where can people find you if they

519
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: want to hear more information about your practice or what

520
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: you got going on. Yeah, you can find me at

521
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: Grace Anthony Counseling on Facebook and I G. And what's

522
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: your website, Grace Anthony Counseling dot com. Okay, very simple,

523
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: keep it very easy for people, yea. And of course

524
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: that information will be in the show notes for anybody

525
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: who wants to be able to be able to access

526
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: that later. Well, thank you so much for chatting with

527
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: us today, Shakisha. I really appreciate it. Thank you so

528
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: much for having me. I'm so grateful Shakisha was able

529
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: to share her expertise with us today. To learn more

530
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: about her or her practice, visit the show notes at

531
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot Com slash Session one thirteen,

532
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: and don't forget to share your takeaways with us ether

533
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter or in your I G stories using the

534
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: hashtag tb G in session. Don't forget to show some

535
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: support for our sponsor for this episode, Natural Licious. You

536
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: can find the products in over twelve d Sally stores nationwide,

537
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: and you can also get ten percent off your purchase

538
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: online by going to Sally Beauty dot com and using

539
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: the promo code five five five five five five at checkout.

540
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: A huge thank you again to think if It The

541
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: Gottman Institute and ziny Me for their sponsorship of last

542
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: week's Black Girl Clinician Collective Retreat. We had an amazing

543
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: time in Charleston, So if you're a black woman therapist

544
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: in private practice, make sure you visit the show notes

545
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com sash session to

546
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: add your name to the list for updates about next

547
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: year's retreat. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,

548
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: don't forget to check out our directory at Therapy for

549
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com um slash directory. And if you

550
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: want to continue this conversation with other sisters who listen

551
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: to the podcast, come on over and join us in

552
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: the Thrive Tribe, which is the Facebook group for our community.

553
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: You can request to join at Therapy for Black Girls

554
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: dot com slash Tribe and be sure to answer the

555
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: three questions that are asked to gain injury. Thank y'all

556
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look

557
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: forward to continue in this conversation with you all. Real

558
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: soon we will not be having a new episode of

559
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: the podcast next week because I will be kicking it

560
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: in New Orleans for essence, so I hope that I

561
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: will be able to see many of you I will

562
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: be presenting at the Convention Center on Friday and then

563
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: on Saturday at the Wellness House, so please let me

564
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: know if you're going to be in New Orleans for Essence.

565
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: I would love to see as many of you as possible.

566
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: So we won't have a new episode next week, but

567
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: we will be returning the following week. Y'all, take you

568
00:30:53,600 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: care of yourselves much