1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Death by throttling, death by strangulation, 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: manual strangulation. That is the cod cause of death for 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: twenty two year old Gabby Potito. At this hour, we 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: are now learning more details about the crime scene itself. 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: What are the clues left behind? What does an eye 6 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: witness have to say about what he saw at the 7 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: Gabby Petito homicide scene? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. First 8 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends at KSLTV. 9 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: Well KSL has elected not to make that video public. 10 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: We did show it to someone who had worked numerous homicides. 11 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: Oh dozen't rutually every murdered that I prosecuted. I went 12 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: to the crime scene. Longtime Saltway County prosecutor Kent Morgan 13 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: came away with distinct impressions from this scene. This is quick, 14 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: This is not sitting here for five or six hours 15 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to conceal the crime. He 16 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: also didn't notice any obvious signs of a struggle on 17 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: the ground. One of the things I've been seeing in 18 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: this story is a history of these individuals getting into fights, 19 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: and that she attacked him. I don't see that here. Also, 20 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: I see is one individual who suffered the damage and 21 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: no evidence of injury created by her. Everything that you 22 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: are hearing, this veteran a prosecutor Ken Morgan say, is important. 23 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: No detail is too small to consider. In this case, 24 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: I recall prosecuting a serial killer and we could never 25 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: catch him. We finally got a woman's body. She was 26 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: always a Jane Doe. We never knew who she was, 27 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: but we could link her body to the previous killings. 28 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: The location and condition of the one earring of hers 29 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: changed the entire scenario of how her murder occurred. One earring. 30 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: You have to take each piece of evidence, even if 31 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: it's just an ear ring, even if it's just a 32 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: pair of boots, and you have to analyze where is it, 33 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: why is it there, Why are they undisturbed, sitting up 34 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: or are they Every single piece of evidence tells you something, 35 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: and this crime scene must be analyzed very very careful. 36 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: Take a listen now to our cut three twenty two 37 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: also KSL TV listen. More than three weeks after her 38 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: body was discovered in Titon County, Wyoming, new answers finally 39 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: came today over what happened to Gabby Petito. Here By 40 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: fine the cause of manner of death to be caused 41 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: death by strangulation in a manner of his homicide the 42 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: corners four weeks when Chopper five flew over the crime scene, 43 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: a photographer spotted the remains above ground but covered possibly 44 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: by a blanket. Hiking shoes were on the ground next 45 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: to the body, covered by a blanket. That means the 46 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: scene was staged. Hiking boots next to the body. Were 47 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: they sitting up? Were they knocked over? If they were 48 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: not knocked over, what does that tell me? We also 49 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: know that Gabby's body was found just five minutes and 50 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: that's walking from where Gabby's four transit had been spotted 51 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: by Red Blue Bethune. All of these facts are telling 52 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: me something. They are telling me who the killer is. Again, 53 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation 54 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: series XM one eleven, where crime still matters, where we 55 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: want justice. With me an all star panel to try 56 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: and make sense of what we are learning and help 57 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: us digest it and interpret it and analyze it with me. 58 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: Del Carson, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, former FBI 59 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 1: agent at del Carson Law dot com. Renowned psychoanalysts, joining 60 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: us from the La Jurisdiction, doctor Bethany Marshall, starving new 61 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: Netflix series Bling Empire. Cheryl McCollum, Founder director of the 62 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: Coldcase Research Institute. You can find her at Coldcase Crimes 63 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: dot org. I've been in the trenches with her for 64 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: well over a decade, and I can tell you she 65 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 1: feels the same way I do about each individual piece 66 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: of evidence. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 67 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star 68 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: of a brand new hit series, Bodybags with Joe Scott 69 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: Morgan on iHeart Podcast. But first straight out to Massa's 70 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: said our special guests, joining US investigative reporter with WFLA TV. Massa, 71 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it never ends. It's like drinking out of 72 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: a fire hydrant. Every day. I think, well, okay, that's 73 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: all we know for now, and within an hour we're 74 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: slammed with more information. The searches back on for Brian Laundry. 75 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: You tell me now at a different entrance to Carlton Reserve. 76 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: I think it's what you were telling mean, twenty five 77 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: thousand acres of swamp. Then you got to think about 78 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: this too, Massa you gotta also think about Maya Cache Reserve, 79 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 1: which is adjoining Carlton Reserve. Also, so much happening right 80 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 1: there in Florida. Let's go straight to my society joining 81 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: me WFLA TV. You know, I hardly even know where 82 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: to start, but Massa, what can you tell me? What 83 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: have you learned about the actual crime scene that we're discussing. Okay, 84 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: so the actual crime scene, and that is a great 85 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: place to start. The most significant new information that we 86 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: are learning right now. You heard it up right at 87 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: the top. A chopper over the scene, a photojournalists, you know, 88 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: before the scene was put on lockdown. You know, first 89 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: on scene was able to see that Jabby Petito's remains 90 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: were above ground. So that's significant. It's significant that she 91 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: was not buried. So there's photos and video of this, 92 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: and it has not been released to the public. Mass 93 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: SOCIETI knows all about it, and we are learning her 94 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: body was in open sight, as we have long conjectured, 95 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: body out in the open. Think about it in our 96 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: front yard. I go out at night and I pick 97 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: up the basketballs and the soccer balls and what do 98 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: you say, badminton birdies. Everything that's been left out there 99 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: for the day. I don't leave it out in the 100 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: open every night. I don't want it to get wet 101 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: or destroyed or the dog get it. Her body is 102 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: out in the open, left there. I can't even think 103 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: about it. You know. I took my mother at Massa 104 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: home to make and the other day she wanted to 105 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: see where my father is buried and see how it looked. 106 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: And I could hardly stand it. I could hardly stand 107 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: looking at that cemetery plot. It just broke my heart, 108 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: just leaving her body out and out in the open. Okay, 109 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: I'm going down a rabbit hole. Photos and videos body 110 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: out in the open? What more do we Naamossa? So 111 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: we know her body was out in the open. There 112 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: was a pair of hiking shoes, apparently there were spotted 113 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: on scene. We don't know if they were right next 114 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: to her, how far away from her, if they were 115 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: upright or not upright. It's unclear if she was covered 116 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: by a blanket, initially by the perpetrator or by law enforcement. 117 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: I'm unclear as to that fact. But you talk about 118 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: how brutal it is to just leave her body out 119 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: in the open like that, But this crime, this manual strangulation, 120 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: this throttling that was also very up closed and personal. 121 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum very quickly to you, I don't think that 122 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: I would want to cover the body, but I don't 123 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: think a trained crime scene take I wouldn't cover the body. 124 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: I would want to cover the body out of respect 125 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 1: for the victim. But I don't think a trained criminal 126 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: technician such as you, or really any of us on 127 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: the panel would go up to a body which is 128 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: evidence and cover it with a blanket. I don't think 129 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: that they covered that body with the blanket. I think 130 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: the killer covered that body with the blanket, because nobody 131 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: in their right mind, that's the criminal justice system, would 132 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: destroy evidence by putting a blanket on top of it, 133 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: potentially destroying evidence. And another thing, words matter, words matter, Cheryl. 134 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: This says hiking shes were on the ground next to 135 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: the body, so we do know where they are. They 136 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: are right next to the body, and that is significant 137 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: because if they were notched over and they were not askew, 138 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: that tells me more about her death. Cheryl jump in, 139 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: words do matter. If it was somebody from a chromo scene, 140 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 1: they would have used a sheet, not a blanket. The 141 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: word blanket to me means it came from that van, 142 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 1: which indicates the killer knew her, they had a connection. 143 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: The fact that that person would cover her all the 144 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: way or part way means he's telling on himself. He 145 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: took extra time. I don't think to try to conceal her. 146 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: I think it was almost I'm leaving her, but I 147 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: do still love her, and somewhat took care. We see 148 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: it a lot, I know Joe Scott has I know 149 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: you have Nancy. Where a killer will cover the victim's 150 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: faith because he doesn't want them to look at them, 151 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: because he cares about them. The fact that he would 152 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: take boots off and place them, The fact that he 153 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,719 Speaker 1: would drag her five minutes from the van. Herbis could 154 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: have already been off. She could have been killed when 155 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: she was getting ready for bad and she didn't have 156 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: her They were next to her, which is nowhere near 157 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: the van. So that again takes extra time. A stranger 158 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: doesn't do that. A stranger kills you, drops you, gets ghost. 159 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: This person took time to get this person out of 160 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: the van, put him on the blanket. Well, you're assuming 161 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: she was killed in the van. I am, I'm not 162 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: I'm not assuming a darn thing. I don't know where 163 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: she was killed, but I want to follow up on 164 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: what you said straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall. We 165 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: discussed this many times, as have you and I Joe 166 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. Bethany, I've had one case where a daughter 167 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: killed her mother and then the mother was naked by 168 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: the way I guess she got out of the shower 169 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: she was sleeping without her clothes on, and put a 170 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: wicker trash basket from the bathroom over her head post 171 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: mortem after the death, covered her face. I've had several 172 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: cases where the victim was killed out doors and the 173 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: face was covered with leaves or twigs and branches, and 174 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: sometimes the whole body. There are many ways to cover 175 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: a body, and it is actually not unusual when and 176 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: only when the killer knows the victim. What is that 177 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: instinctual desire to cover up the body, doctor Bethany, you 178 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: just took my word instinctual. I think that's what it is. 179 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: If you had caught me ten years ago asked me 180 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: this question, I would have said it was love and 181 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: care towards the victim, some final act of decency. But 182 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: you didn't say that. Today. Well, have you ever noticed 183 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: that anybody who picks up a baby will jiggle it? 184 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: Even a teenager, even somebody who's never been taught how 185 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: to care for a baby, will instinctually jiggle the baby, 186 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: comfort the baby, kind of know what to do. It's 187 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: in our DNA to provide certain types of care towards 188 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: other beings. And I think that the covering of the 189 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: body with a blanket, with leaves, the wick or basket, 190 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: it's somewhat instinctual. It's out of their own selfishness that 191 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: they're not doing it for the victims at all. They're 192 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: doing it for themselves. It's like locking the door before 193 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: you leave your house. You think, did I lock the door? 194 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: Did I not? It's a final act before you leave. 195 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: Aside and Nancy, one more thing about I just want 196 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: to say something about the hiking boots. We don't know 197 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: that they're hers. You said worth your details matter too. 198 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: Whose boots are they? Guys? I want to take a 199 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: listen to that sound one more time, Todder, if you 200 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: could play cut three twenty three. Well, Cassel is elected 201 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: not to make that video public. We did show it 202 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: to someone who had worked numerous homicides. Oh, dozens virtually 203 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: everard murdered that I prosecuted. I went to the crime scene. 204 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: Longtime Saltwake County prosecutor Kent Morgan came away with distinct 205 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: impressions from this scene. This is quick, This is not 206 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: sitting here for five or six hours trying to figure 207 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: out how to conceal the crime. He also didn't notice 208 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: any obvious signs of a struggle on the ground. One 209 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: are the things I've been seeing in this story is 210 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: a history of these individuals getting into fights, and that 211 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: she attacked him. I don't see that here. As they 212 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: see is one individual who suffered the damage and no 213 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: evidence of injury created by her. You know, it's interesting 214 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: that he is still this is a Federman trial lawyer. 215 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: He's still remembering what those cops and Moad Moab said 216 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: August twelve. There is evidence, prior evidence that he's heard 217 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: about where she was the attacker, but he says he's 218 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: very careful to say that's not what it looks like here. Okay, 219 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: straight out to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, I know you're 220 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: dying to jump in hit me. Yeah, I gotta tell you, 221 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: I'm happy this guy was a prosecutor and everything. But 222 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: he's viewing these from a helicopter. I didn't know this. 223 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: We no longer have to go to crime scenes. We 224 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: can assess this from a great altitude. I did not 225 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: ask you for sarcasm, because you know what, Joe Scott, 226 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: this is where we're learning about the crime scene, all right. 227 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: He can see drag marks from the sky. Is that 228 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: I don't believe it, Scott straight out to Dale Carson. 229 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: I don't believe that the witness said anything about seeing 230 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: drag marks. But what we do know is that he 231 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: sees the body. It's on the ground, it's out in 232 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: the open, maybe under a tree at best. There are 233 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: it's covered by a blanket, and there are boots beside it. 234 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: And I believe Dale Carson when he says it happened 235 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: quickly and there's no sign of a struggle. To me, 236 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: that means the boots are still sitting up. Now. Was 237 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: she killed there? Was she killed in the van? I 238 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: don't know that, but I do know these facts, and 239 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: I am making the most of them. Would you join me? Yes, absolutely, 240 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: and let me just see this. The covering with a 241 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: blanket serves an additional purpose that we're not thinking about 242 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: people walking down that creek would look over, they would 243 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: see those boots off, and they would see somebody covered 244 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: by a blanket. Well, they're napping, so you'd be very quiet. 245 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: You wouldn't go over there and inspect them because you 246 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: think it's a camp or just chilling out. So that's 247 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: what caused the delay. Probably many people walked that area 248 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: and saw the blanket covered person and just didn't think 249 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: anything about it. I don't know about that, because this 250 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: is dispersed camping, Massa said, I hear what Jail Carson's saying. 251 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: I'm not discounting it. I'm disagreeing with it. This is 252 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: dispersed camping, which means you're not near a porta potty, 253 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: you're not by an electricolored water hook up the way. 254 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: Very often I take our family goes r ving. We've 255 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: also gone dispersed camping. You're out in the middle of nowhere, 256 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: and I don't think there's going to be high christious 257 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: happening by the tent or the camper. Massa, Yeah, this 258 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: was dispersed camping, Like you said a lot of times, 259 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: from my understanding, the campers are going to try to 260 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: get their own space, get away from other tamp sites, 261 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: so it would be I think unlikely to assume that 262 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: there was high foot traffic in the area. But I 263 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: will say that her body was discovered very close to 264 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: where this scene is, just a very short walk away. 265 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: So we know there have been other campers in the area. 266 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: But were they at a place where they would see 267 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: the blanket? I think that that would be an assumption 268 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: to make. Well. I mean, let's take at three Massa. 269 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: We know that Red White and Bethan, who are nature enthusiasts, 270 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: they saw Gabby's van and it was closed up. I think, Jackie, 271 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: weren't they the ones Massa. Weren't they the ones that 272 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: also said the van that door closed quickly or not? Yeah? Yeah, 273 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: because one one person saw it closed, one person did not. 274 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: My point is they didn't see it, They did not 275 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: see her body, and they were just within walking distance 276 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: of her body. I mean, this is a chess game. 277 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: You have to take the pieces and figure out your 278 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: next move what you were learning from your pieces, not 279 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: take potshots at the pieces you don't have. It's not helpful, 280 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: waste of time. Listen to this, guys, and this is 281 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: something Joe Scott and Cheryl McCallum have repeatedly said, take it. 282 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: Listen to our three one nine. This is Jose Carbonaro, 283 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: w p b F. Former FBI agent Stewart Kaplan believes 284 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: DNA the Teton County Corners says he handed over to 285 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: law enforcement could help take this case one step further. 286 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: This can of course include him as being the attack 287 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: or being the responsible person for having caused Gabby Petito's death, 288 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: or it could exclude him him being Brian Laundry person 289 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: of interest in the death of Gabby Petito. He's also 290 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: wanted for the unauthorized use of her credit card and 291 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: is still nowhere to be found today, marking one month 292 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: after his parents say they last saw him leave very 293 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: hike at the Carlton Reserve. The case getting some backlash 294 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: from the public as slow moving, but Kaplan thinks otherwise. 295 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: I think they have moved this investigation quite expeditiously. Every 296 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: procedural aspect of this case may be at some point 297 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: subjected to questioning or challenging and import of law and 298 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: law enforcement only has one opportunity to do it right 299 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: and get it right. You know, I've rarely seen public 300 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: officials actually address the details of the facts of an investigation, 301 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: ongoing investigation. So I was very surprised, Cheryl McCollum when 302 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: we learned so much from the Tea Time County Coroner, 303 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: doctor Brent Blue. But here you have it, here, you 304 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: have it, you Joe Scott deal, I've been talking about 305 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: this from day one. Is there d N A on 306 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: her body? And you're just hearing right there, he tells 307 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: us the Tea Time County Coroner handed over to law 308 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: enforcement DNA. Absolutely, no question, There is absolutely going to 309 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: be DNA. Whoever drug her on that blanket, whoever you 310 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 1: know pulled her shirt. Why do you people keep saying 311 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: dragged her on the blanket? We don't know that. Let's 312 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: stick with what we had to get her, the killer 313 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: from wherever he killed her to where he left her. Right? 314 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: Can you not accept that maybe they were out looking 315 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: at the stars, got into a five and she died. 316 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: But about that, because there would have been a sign 317 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: of struggle. That ground has rocks everywhere. You would have seen, 318 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: you know, evidence of her feet moving, and her clothes 319 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: would have been twisted or torn. It would have looked 320 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: like a fight. Remember what Joe Scott said earlier. The 321 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: vantage point was from aerial you can't tell from up 322 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: in a chopper whether rocks have been disturbed. I mean, 323 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: I don't know that it was on rocks. I don't 324 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: know that it could be on Remember, under trees, there's 325 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: got to be some soil under a tree. So I 326 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: want to deal with the facts that we need. Want 327 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: to go back to the DNA. Okay, she was grabbed, touched, placed, 328 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: That person that killed her touched her. So I'm going 329 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,719 Speaker 1: to think that this is a secondary crime scene. I 330 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: really do believe that where she is left, to me 331 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: appears to be secondary. The way it appears that people 332 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: are saying things were left appear to be secondary to me. 333 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: If that's the case, there could be DNA under her arms, 334 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: which in fact could extract Please explain what you're saying 335 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: in that the Impact is a tool that we have 336 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: that it can extract DNA off clothing, rocks, rope, broom handle. 337 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: That is better than just swabbing with the bugle swab. 338 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: That's basically like you always say, it's a Q tip. 339 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: This is a machine that can you get us a 340 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: sample that is a thousand times better than anything a 341 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: bugle swab can do. Nancy I believe. I believe also 342 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: that the DNA, the sample, this unidentified sample that we 343 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: know about so far, could very well have to do 344 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,479 Speaker 1: with the fingernails. That's something I've been beating on for 345 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: a while. They did nail scrapings and nail trimmings, and 346 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: if there is a place to harvest this, it will 347 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: be beneath those nails because it will have been captured. 348 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: You know. The nails act like a little hood, almost 349 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: like a little protective hood. If she's scratching him, which 350 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: we know has probably happened. Remember there's still images that 351 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: we had of him from the altercation that they had had. 352 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: I think that this is something it was a reactive event. 353 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: She probably put her hands on him to fend him 354 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 1: off as he is trying to choke her out strangulation, 355 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: and those her nails are going to tell the tale 356 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: here it's protected. Whereas the rest of the body might 357 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: be exposed to elements, the nails provide a safe haven. 358 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: And it's not passive DNA. This is something that was 359 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: scraped away, scraped away and stored beneath the nails. That's 360 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: going to be their best shot, Ryn Colin, where I 361 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: agree with Joe Scott. But where else do you believe 362 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: on the body we could get DNA. Possibly it's manuel 363 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: strangulation from the neck. Blanket, You'll get it from the blanket. 364 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: There's a blanket had to come from somewhere and it 365 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: likely came from the van and it was placed over 366 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 1: the body. No, this is your mind of me, Del Carson, 367 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: And I'm glad you said blanket. It's reminding me of 368 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: the top Mom Casey Anthony case where the body is 369 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 1: disposed of. If we're going under Cheryl McCollum's theory that 370 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: this is a secondary crime scene, that she was killed 371 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: in the van and left here where the body is 372 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: disposed of, very near the location of the murder and 373 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: Tod Mom Casey Anthony Kelley was thrown out into the 374 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: woods and a trash bag and a blanket from the 375 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: home about twelve fourteen houses down from the Anthony home. 376 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: Why it was convenient for the killer Tod Mom, she 377 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: had to do it quickly, Just as this prosecutor is saying, 378 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: this was quick, down and dirty. Same thing here, This 379 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: was a convenient place next to the van, Gabby's van 380 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: and the blanket. The Dell Carson is highlighting is significant 381 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: because on it there may be DNA and significant it 382 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: may be from the van. So the killer killed her 383 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: and then goes to the van and gets a van 384 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: blanket and covers her up. That doesn't make sense unless 385 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: it's Brian Laundry Doctor Bethany wanted to end Japan Dodger. Well, Nancy, 386 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: we're talking about DNA under the fingernails. That nobody's mentioning 387 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: semen I mentioned it not today, Oh okay, so go ahead. Sorry. Well, 388 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, love and hate our opposite sides at the 389 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: same point. And if the primary crime scene was in 390 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: that van, he's not like a serial killer where he 391 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: was taking run a trip just so he could kill her. 392 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: There was a build up of hostility, resentment, tension, jealousy 393 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: that had been going on prior to the mo App incident. 394 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: There was simmering resentment on his part. We don't know 395 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: what it's towards. If it was because she was doing 396 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: her van life hosting. Was he jealous of all the 397 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: followers she had? But something happened that night that was 398 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: intimate before turned to hatred. I don't know that I 399 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: would always be quite sex with love. No, it's about power, 400 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: Nancy and I gotta tell you, they would have done 401 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: a rape kit on her, which would have been extensive. 402 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: They could have collected some kind of sample. However, she's decomposing, 403 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: so that's going to, you know, compromise things. But also 404 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: to Bethany's point, if there is ejaculate there, it could 405 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: very well be on the blanket, semon sperm. That's what 406 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: he's talking about. They're checking, they're checking the blanket for 407 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: that as well. And I got to tell you something else. 408 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: That is an element here. When you're talking about blanket 409 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: covering or covering of the body, there's an element of 410 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: shame here too. This could go to a sexual motivation. 411 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: If he had violated her sexually like that, it might 412 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: just be guilt on his part. And that's that's in 413 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: addition to the actual choking or the strangulation. You're making 414 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: me think of another case, Sharyl McCollum, Shenan Watts. Remember 415 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: Chris Watts had sex, Oh yeah, and then he killed her. 416 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: He had sex with her, a whole power thing, and 417 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: she's what eight nine months pregnant, and then he kills her. 418 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: It's not unheard of, not unheard of. In this situation, 419 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: I have to disagree though, because what I see with 420 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 1: Brian Laundry is completely different. He is exhibiting more of 421 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: like a baby fit when he doesn't get his way, 422 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: when he's not as popular as her, when he doesn't 423 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: have the money that she has. Cabby will be fully closed. 424 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: There will be no seminal fluid. It'll be seminal fluid, 425 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: and it'll be on that blanket because it was in 426 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: the van and that's what they've been doing in the 427 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: van for some time. So it's there and it identifies 428 00:27:45,119 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: the blanket coming from the van from this guy. Hey, Masa, 429 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: what's happening where you are? Yeah, so it's actually pretty significant. 430 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: What's happening again, we're seeing an uptick of activity at 431 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: the twenty five thousand acre swamp that they have been 432 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: searching for Brian Laundry, now missing more than a month, 433 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: and pointing to the family's timeline, Massa, you just made 434 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: me think of something, thank you. You know how the 435 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: parents rearrange their timeline. And I've been we've all been saying, 436 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: how can you not know the last time you saw 437 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: your son alive? How can you suddenly go, oh, oh, sorry, 438 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: you know what? It was a Friday? It was Thursday. 439 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. I think because their lawyer said, listen, people, 440 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: if you don't talk to the FBI, that's fine, you 441 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: can't get charged for that. But if you lie and 442 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: give them false information, you're up the creek, and you 443 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: know what creek, You're up the creek without a paddle. 444 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: And then suddenly their memory is jogged and they rearrange 445 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: their timeline because if they had stuck with a lie, 446 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: that would be a crime. When you lie to the beds, 447 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: you might as well go ahead and hold out your 448 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: risk because you're going to get cuffed that. I think 449 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: that's why they change the timeline. You're right, deal, Carson. 450 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: Remember what parent doesn't know the last time they saw 451 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: their child. I mean, they go camping, they come back, 452 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: they know what day they last saw him, and then 453 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: weeks in they go, oh, yeah, we got our memory jogged. 454 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: I bet they did get their memory jogged changing that timeline. Okay, sorry, Massa, 455 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: go ahead. Yeah. They The SBI apparently had spotted the 456 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: vehicle at the launder Mustang at the laundry home on 457 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: the fifteenth, which is why they said it must have 458 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,719 Speaker 1: been the thirteenth, not the fourteen. But yeah, again, we 459 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: are seeing an uptick of activity at the site. We 460 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: saw ten vehicles the canine forensics unit. We did see 461 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: Pastill County Sheriff's Office there today their CAN nine unit, 462 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: and that's something that I personally haven't seen before. And 463 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: just to tell you a little bit, it's one of 464 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: the first agencies, the Passing County Sheriff's Office. Between the 465 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: users knines, they have close to two dozen dogs. They 466 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: have all sorts of specialty dogs like bloodhounds that are 467 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: specifically trained to trail missing people. So they do have 468 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: a significant ability with K nine. So the question with 469 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: K nine, so the question is what have they found 470 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: now today? What are they looking for now? Well, we 471 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: have a little bit more information as the search goes on. 472 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: According to mass Societe joining us from w FLA there 473 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: in Florida, we've got some more information, Tyler, if you 474 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: could please roll cut three twenty air friends at WP 475 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: the F He says, now that Potito's death has been 476 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: ruled a homicide and the cause has been determined as 477 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: dring galician a suspect may already be named behind closed doors. 478 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: That piece of information I would bet has gone into 479 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: grand jury. There is now a sealed indictment for the 480 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: apprehension of the person who is responsible for the death 481 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: of Gabby Petito. Details surrounding possible warrants and charges, however, 482 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: likely won't be released until an arrest is made. They 483 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: would tend not to want to unsteal that because I 484 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: think they realized absolutely there's a very good chance all 485 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: this has already been sent to We say secret grand jury, 486 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: but all grand juries are secret, so to speak, so 487 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: that's not some mysterious thing to have a secret grand jury. Also, 488 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: we now have the Teton County Coroner kind of backpeddling 489 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: trying to clarify his earlier comments. That's why you know 490 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: my old boss, Cheryl Uniamwells Lewis Slayton, the longest serving 491 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: district attorney in the country at that time, I believe 492 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: it was thirty seven years and for a good reason, honest, 493 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: hard working. He told me on day one, don't speak 494 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: to the press, don't come up. He didn't say this, 495 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: but I came up with a standard answer. I always said, 496 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: I fully believe a Fulton County jury will reach a 497 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: verdict that speaks the truth. Bam. That was it. There's 498 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: a reason you don't talk to the press. Okay, take 499 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut three one five, our friend 500 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: Brian Enton. Doctor Blue says he's not allowed to get 501 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: into Gabby's specific injuries because of the ongoing FBI investigation. 502 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: He says her body was discovered nearly a month after 503 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: she was killed. What sort of challenges are involved in 504 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: an autopsy win a body as you described yesterday, has 505 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: been out in the wild for three to four weeks. 506 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: And the situation where anybody is out in the outside, 507 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: whether it's exposed to the elements and insects and animals, 508 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: there is various forms of decomposition, and that decomposition usually 509 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: runs this very specific course. And also, da please run 510 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: three one six. This statement from the Teton County Corner 511 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: Tuesday got so much attention. Unfortunately, this is only one 512 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: of many deaths around the country of people who are 513 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: involved in domestic violence. Some assume doctor Blue was confirming 514 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: laundry was involved. Today he told me that's not what 515 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: he was saying. Did you determine that their cause of 516 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: death was the result of domestic violence or was that 517 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: just you know, comment you made in the moment? That 518 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: was a comment I've made in the moment, in the moment, Okay, 519 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: that's why a lot of people on air right off 520 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: of OPT because they don't want to say anything in 521 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: the moment that is completely Let's just say they shouldn't 522 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: have said. Okay, I believe I recognize your voice, Massa said, WFLA, 523 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,240 Speaker 1: Is that you questioning? Yeah, that was me. I tried 524 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: to you know, I was trying to get more information 525 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: out of him, just whatever other details that could be released, 526 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: you know, with that he told me it was a 527 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: comment he made in the moment. He told another reporter 528 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: he had no direct knowledge. He told someone else was 529 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: an assumption, but he told like another reporter because I 530 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: went back and watched everything he said to everybody. He 531 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: said that he believed that it had indicated domestic violence 532 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: because she had been on a band trip together with 533 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: her partner. So he kind of said a little bit 534 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: different phrase to every single one of us. But I 535 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: also asked him in another report if you could talk 536 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: about like because you know how he wouldn't tell us 537 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: about the autopsy findings, what led him to believe like 538 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: what Marke on her Knacker go on site tried to 539 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 1: get him to talk more about that. And he talked 540 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: about just how typically blood flow would be cut off 541 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: to the brain and the other way would be that 542 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: there would be a crack in the wind type. Because 543 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,280 Speaker 1: I asked him, like, how do you know it's manuel, 544 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: like did you find fingerprints? Like how did you know? 545 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: And that's what's his answer to me, my society, what 546 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: can you tell me about alleged prior domestic incident reportedly 547 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: committed by the coroner. So this is an interesting little tidbit. 548 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: I'll let you decide how relevant it is. But according 549 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: to the Jackson Hole News and Guide, a publication out 550 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 1: of Wyoming that I'm not familiar with, in nineteen ninety nine, 551 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: there was a court case involving the Titon County corner 552 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: doctor Brant Blue, and apparently he was accused of shooting 553 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: a gun at his ex wife's car to keep her unseen. 554 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: So that is an allegation of domestic violence at the 555 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: guy that's now the corner and sort of talking about 556 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: domestic violence in this high profile case. And apparently in 557 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: the end that's turned out to be a misdemeanor reckless 558 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: endangerment and he's able to have a concealed weapon and 559 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: so on. But that's just a little tidbit that's reported 560 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,240 Speaker 1: from local authorities there. And I'll let you guys debate 561 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: how what that means. Did he shoot the gun at 562 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: the X or in the air to keep the X 563 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 1: from laving or did he pull the gun and not shoot. 564 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: He's accused of shooting the gun at the ex wife 565 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: car to keep her, to prevent her from leaving that 566 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 1: scene that was in nineteen ninety nine. Well, I can 567 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 1: tell you this. I question why it's surfacing now now, 568 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: what motives someone may have for bringing it forward now. 569 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: But if it's true, it's true, and that's gonna be 570 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: one heck of a line of cross examination when the 571 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: coroner takes the stand. Okay, that's just another fun thing 572 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: to think about. How are you going to tackle that 573 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: if this thing, ever ever does get to trial, when 574 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: your coroner has this prior what about it? Cheryl? I 575 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,359 Speaker 1: think that's a really good reason why they had four 576 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: additional experts. They're going to be able to talk about 577 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: the toxicology. Now I disagree with that. I disagree with 578 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: that because Cheryl, the county coroner is elected in most 579 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: a lot of jeristications, he may not even be a 580 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: forensic pathologist. He's a doctor, so they needed an anthropologist, 581 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: they needed a forensic pathologists. They needed all of these experts, 582 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: a cat scanned expert, and this expert and that an expert. 583 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 1: It's just like you're going to go a foot doctor 584 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: for an open heart surgery. So I don't want to 585 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: take away from doctor Blue his credentials. I don't think 586 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: that they had this prior shooting in mind when they 587 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: called in the experts go ahead. I don't either. What 588 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: I'm saying is independently of him. They have three people 589 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: that can walk you through the friends without any hiccups, 590 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. And we don't normally hiccup. He 591 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: fired a gun at me, I think I call it 592 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: a little more than a hiccup. But okay, but hey, 593 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: I want to make one more point that I think 594 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: people need to know. When the medical examiner says he 595 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: had no independent knowledge of the domestic violence, I don't 596 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: know how that's true, because law enforcement his own site 597 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: for the autopsy, and they would have been talking to 598 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: the group the whole time. Jay Scott, Yeah, one of 599 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: my favorite, one of my favorite comments that you use 600 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,919 Speaker 1: is you can never unring the Bell, and he did 601 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: not stay in his lane. As a coroner, I trained 602 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: corners for a living, That's what I do. And so 603 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: he has no knowledge relative to that he should speak 604 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: upon relative to an ongoing investigation relative to domestic violence. 605 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: His job is manner and cause of death, and a 606 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: subset of that is identification of the deceased. Beyond that, 607 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: there's no interest here. And so he really he really 608 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,359 Speaker 1: ran outside of his lanes with Discassi. Well, he would 609 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: never testify about that in any event. It's just going 610 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: to be the manner of death. Now, that's it. Now 611 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: he is going to testify. There's every trial he's in charge, 612 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 1: he's going to be compelled. He's going to be compelled 613 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: as a result of all unless you can get an 614 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,720 Speaker 1: assistant medical examiner or assistant coroner. And then the defense 615 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: is going to say, well where's the coroner. Yeah, he 616 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 1: will be taking the stand. Okay, Bethany, I know you've 617 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: got a lot to say, nutshell, nutshell. Well, I'm just 618 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,760 Speaker 1: going to say, you know, he shot at his wife's card, 619 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: he's still shooting from the hip. How is this going 620 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: to affect the trial? And you know, somebody who shoots 621 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: the gun in a domestic situation is impulsive. So I 622 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: was just wondering, how is that impulsivity going to affect 623 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 1: how he examines the body, how he presents evidence, and 624 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,280 Speaker 1: how he presents a trial. Don't you think you're reading 625 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: a level too much into it? He shot a gun, 626 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: all right, you got me over a barrel. Okay, that's bad. 627 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: We will figure out how this is going to affect 628 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: a trial, if there ever is a trial, if there 629 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: is a grand jury, and dive. But first we gotta 630 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: fine Brian Laundry massa. Is there any light at the 631 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: end of the tunnel. Well, the search we're told, you know, 632 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: we don't always stop activity because the scene is just 633 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: so vast out there. But we're told of the activity 634 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: is going on all the time, around the clock, constantly. 635 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: And here we are, you know, nearly a month into this, 636 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: more than a month this season missing, but nearly a 637 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: month of the search, and you know, there's so every 638 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: couple of days we see this huge uptick and we 639 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: get out our chopper and we're trying to figure out 640 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: what's going on. And that's what we're doing today. I 641 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: think you guys know this. But about doctor Blue, he 642 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: certified and emergency medicine and family medicine. He did not 643 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: conduct the autopsy. He just interpreted the results here And 644 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: I asked him, I said, hey, does sb I know 645 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: you're talking? Did they tell you not to talk? And 646 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: he said that he was independent of the SBI. But 647 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: he did hold off having that news conference because the 648 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 1: US Attorney asked him to hold off for one week. 649 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: But he's kind of doing his own thing because he 650 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: said that he believes it's important to get out the 651 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: right information out to the public, whatever limited information that 652 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: he's available to give. We wait as a search goes 653 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: on for Brian laundry and all of this with the 654 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: backdrop that as we speak, Gabby's family is going to 655 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 1: bring home her remains. Can you imagine that trip? Goodbye friend,