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Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM

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Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,

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Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with

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Speaker 1: Captain Ron.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and

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Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions

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Speaker 2: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast

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Speaker 2: to Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors

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Speaker 2: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do

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Speaker 2: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are Beyond Contact.

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Speaker 3: We'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of

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Speaker 3: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from

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Speaker 3: the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Beyond Contact on Captain Ron, and today we

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Speaker 4: are honored to have a very special guest with us

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Speaker 4: Professor Avilobe. Professor Lobe is the Frank B. Bard Professor

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Speaker 4: of Science and Institute Director at Harvard University. He chaired

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Speaker 4: Harvard's Department of Astronomy and was the longest serving chair

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Speaker 4: in the department's history. He is a best selling author

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Speaker 4: of nine books, including Extraterrestrial and Interstellar, as well as

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Speaker 4: over one thousand scientific papers on a wide range of topics,

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Speaker 4: including black holes, the first Stars, the search for extraterrestrial life,

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Speaker 4: and the future of the universe. He has been a

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Speaker 4: paramount voice in our community for years, as he believes

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Speaker 4: in the importance of using empirical data to investigate UAP

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Speaker 4: sightings rather than dismissing them outright, a mission shared by

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Speaker 4: this very show and contact in the Desert as well. Professor,

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Speaker 4: thanks so much for taking the time to talk.

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Speaker 5: To us today.

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Speaker 6: Thanks for having me. It's a great pleasure.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely Listen. We are always pushing for more scientific study

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Speaker 4: of the data and putting more resource into researching UFOs

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Speaker 4: and extraterustrial civilizations. Yet for the most part, it seems

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Speaker 4: like most of science still seems resistant to study these things.

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Speaker 4: Why do you think that is.

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Speaker 7: Well, I think part of it is because we have

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Speaker 7: science fiction, and we have unsubstantiated claims from members of

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Speaker 7: the public that did not really take careful data of

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Speaker 7: the sky and claim to have seen things that are unusual.

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Speaker 7: Maybe even some people claim to have been in contact

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Speaker 7: with extraterrestrials, and scientists are worried of maintaining their reputation,

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Speaker 7: their prestige, and as a result they avoid taking risks,

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Speaker 7: which is exactly the opposite of what you need in

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Speaker 7: order to make big discoveries. So there is this tension

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Speaker 7: here between a lot of unsubstantiated claims that put your

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Speaker 7: reputation at risk if you were to attend to them.

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Speaker 7: And on the other hand, the biggest question in science

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Speaker 7: are we alone? And is there a neighbor on our

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Speaker 7: cosmic street? I mean, we see many Earth sun systems

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Speaker 7: roughly at the same separation from surveys that we have

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Speaker 7: by now, there should be of more than one hundred

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Speaker 7: billion of them within the Milky Way galaxy, and so

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Speaker 7: there are lots of houses in our cosmic street. We

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Speaker 7: know that we live in one of those houses, and

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Speaker 7: the only question is whether there are residents in those

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Speaker 7: other houses that we can tell exists. To me, it

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Speaker 7: doesn't sound speculative at all, because we exist. You know,

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Speaker 7: science invested billions of dollars in questions to which we

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Speaker 7: have no clue, like what is the nature of dark matters.

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Speaker 7: So the way people approach it is that scientists think

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Speaker 7: about hypothetical parts that make up most of the matter

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Speaker 7: in the universe, eighty five percent of it. We don't

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Speaker 7: know what it is, and then we build experiments that

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Speaker 7: can search for those particular types of particles. And this

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Speaker 7: way billions of dollars were invested and we haven't found anything.

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Speaker 7: It's not a waste because it's like a detective story.

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Speaker 7: You don't know what the answer is. But all I'm

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Speaker 7: saying is we should apply the same approach to the

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Speaker 7: question of whether there is a technological civilization beyond ours

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Speaker 7: in this cosmic street that I was describing, and in

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Speaker 7: the past, you know, there is a community of SETI

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Speaker 7: the Search for Extraterational Intelligence that invested most of its

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Speaker 7: resources in searching for radio signals, which is pretty much

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Speaker 7: like waiting for a phone call at home. Nobody may

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Speaker 7: call you when you're waiting. A different approach is actually

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Speaker 7: to search for objects in your backyard, perhaps the neighbor

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Speaker 7: through a tennis ball you know that you might find,

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Speaker 7: or you might find package in your mailbox. That's a

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Speaker 7: completely different approach because the center may be dead. You

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Speaker 7: don't need the center to be active when you are

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Speaker 7: searching for these things. If they just keep accumulating over time,

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Speaker 7: you might find some of these objects. We should check

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Speaker 7: near Earth. And the reason to do it near Earth

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Speaker 7: is because there is the Sun that illuminates such objects,

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Speaker 7: so we can find them more easily. It's like looking

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Speaker 7: for your keys under the lamp post. And we haven't

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Speaker 7: truly done that. Astronomers only over the past decade found

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Speaker 7: the first interstellar objects within the orbit of the Earth

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Speaker 7: around the Sun. And it's just over the past decade.

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Speaker 7: You know, we don't know if there are technological artifacts

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Speaker 7: among those rocks that may arise from outer space. And

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Speaker 7: I was intrigued by the fact that some of these

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Speaker 7: interstellar objects, like the first interstellar meteor that was reported,

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Speaker 7: or the first large object that passed near Earth the

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Speaker 7: size of a football field anomalies, they didn't resemble the

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Speaker 7: type of rocks that we find in the Solar system.

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Speaker 4: You know, what sort of objects are we looking for?

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Speaker 4: I think I heard you once say that you were

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Speaker 4: actually looking for another civilization's space trash. You know, who

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Speaker 4: knows one civilization's trash is another treasure for ours. Well,

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Speaker 4: you're in an article about how much debreed we have

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Speaker 4: in the air, imagine what they might.

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Speaker 7: Have, right, And the whole point about archaeology is that

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Speaker 7: you're searching for artifacts, and you can learn a lot

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Speaker 7: from what you find.

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Speaker 6: In space.

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Speaker 7: It may be that most of the technological stuff that

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Speaker 7: we find is debund, is not really working. It's defunct,

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Speaker 7: that it was destroyed by cosmic rays and energetic particles,

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Speaker 7: or by collisions with dust particles or micro meteorites. After

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Speaker 7: a few billion years, these things may break up, and

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Speaker 7: then we could find pieces of those things, just the

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Speaker 7: way we find broken spacecraft around the Earth. Right now,

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Speaker 7: there are lots of piece the size of a few centimeters,

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Speaker 7: about ten million of them. And so the idea is

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Speaker 7: whatever we find that is not natural in origin, that

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Speaker 7: doesn't look like an icy rock, would be a messenger

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Speaker 7: that tells us something new, that we are not alone,

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Speaker 7: that we should have a different perspective about our priorities.

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Speaker 7: Because if another civilization existed before us, you know, billions

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Speaker 7: of years ago, and developed some technologies that we don't possess,

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Speaker 7: we can actually learn a lot from their history. It's

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Speaker 7: just I think prudent for us to conduct this search,

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Speaker 7: invest billions of dollars. In fact, I wrote in one

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Speaker 7: of my recent essays that I'm willing to have a

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Speaker 7: bet with Elon Musk. I will put one percent of

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Speaker 7: my networth against one percent of his networth, which is

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Speaker 7: about four billion dollars, and then we will have enough

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Speaker 7: money to do the search for a decade, and if

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Speaker 7: we don't find anything, then I will give him a

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Speaker 7: second the one percent of my net worth, because I

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Speaker 7: think the main reason we haven't found the evidence so

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Speaker 7: far is because we haven't searched.

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Speaker 6: And that's a circular argument.

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Speaker 4: Sure, which came first. You know, as we're talking about

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Speaker 4: exploring the universe for science of extraterustrial civilizations, you've suggested

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Speaker 4: that we should be looking for techno signatures, not just biosignatures.

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Speaker 4: Can you explain what you mean by that?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, So the mainstream of the astronomy community came up

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Speaker 7: every decade the sides about priorities, and came up with

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Speaker 7: a report for the twenty twenties that defined the future observator.

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Speaker 7: It called the habitable World Observatory is a very high

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Speaker 7: priority to be constructed by the twenty forties. So we're

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Speaker 7: talking decades away from the current time, but the priority

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Speaker 7: is to look for molecules such as oxygen, methan, carbon

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Speaker 7: dioxide in the atmospheres of exoplanets planets around other stars

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Speaker 7: when they transit the face of the star, you can

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Speaker 7: actually see look for the fingerprints of various molecules in

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Speaker 7: the light that passes through the atmosphere of the planet.

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Speaker 7: And that would cost more than ten billion dollars. The

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Speaker 7: problem is that you can in principle make these molecules

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Speaker 7: also by natural geological processes that have nothing to do

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Speaker 7: with life. And also, I mean, as much as it

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Speaker 7: would still flatter our ego to think, oh yeah, we're

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Speaker 7: still the most intelligent round because we're finding only evidence

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Speaker 7: for microbes, you know, it would be far more conclusive

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Speaker 7: if we found a piece of equipment near us that

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Speaker 7: was not human made, because not only we will learn

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Speaker 7: that there is life elsewhere, but we will also realize

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Speaker 7: that there is intelligent life, technological life. And to me,

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Speaker 7: that is a much more conclusive realization if you hold

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Speaker 7: in your hand the gadget that is very different from

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Speaker 7: what we produce. Until we that possibility, I mean, we

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Speaker 7: have to hedge our beds. And my recommendation is as

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Speaker 7: much as we want to invest more than ten billion

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Speaker 7: dollars in the Habitable World observatory. I think we should

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Speaker 7: invest billions of dollars in the thing that we haven't

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Speaker 7: done yet, which is to check to search for objects

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Speaker 7: near Earth that might be of extraterrestrial technological origin within

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Speaker 7: the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. There are

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Speaker 7: currently millions of such objects that came from outside the

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Speaker 7: Solar System that are roughly a meter in size, and

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Speaker 7: we cannot see them easily with existing telescopes because they

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Speaker 7: don't reflect enough sunlight. But if we had several billion dollars,

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Speaker 7: I would be able to design an observing program that

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Speaker 7: will search for any technological artifacts among the rocks that

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Speaker 7: are out there that.

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Speaker 6: Came from outside the Solar System.

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Speaker 4: When we come back, we're going to talk to Professor

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Speaker 4: Lobes precisely about that and how artificial intelligence and these

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Speaker 4: new telescopes and these other developments will help us in

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Speaker 4: the search for extraterrestrial civilizations. Listening to Beyond Contact on

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Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network,

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Speaker 4: we are back on Beyond Contact. We're talking with Professor

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Speaker 4: Avi Lowe. Professor for me, I feel like this could

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Speaker 4: all possibly just be a matter of technology. Just like

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Speaker 4: when we had no concept of microorganisms till sixteen seventy

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Speaker 4: four when we invented better microscopes. Then we just thought

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Speaker 4: that the entire universe was our galaxy until nineteen twenty

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Speaker 4: four when we invented better telescopes. And just how we

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Speaker 4: believed throughout history that there were no exoplanets up until

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Speaker 4: nineteen ninety two when we found one, and now today

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Speaker 4: we think most planets have them. I think we believe

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Speaker 4: seventy five percent of all stars have planets around them.

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Speaker 4: So my question to you, sir, is is it possible

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Speaker 4: that extraterustrial life could be so different from what we

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Speaker 4: might think of it as that we can't recognize it.

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Speaker 4: But perhaps a new technology could make us aware of

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Speaker 4: these life forms that have always been around. We just

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Speaker 4: didn't know how to perceive that.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, definitely quite possible. The one thing that we will

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Speaker 7: have very soon is the help of artificial intelligence. We

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Speaker 7: already employ it in data analysis because huge data sets

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Speaker 7: will come from the next generation of telescopes, for example,

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Speaker 7: the Rubin Observatory in Chile that we'll use a three

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Speaker 7: point two gigapixel camera to servey the southern sky every

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Speaker 7: four days, and in processing that data and looking for

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Speaker 7: additional interstellar objects like the size of a football field

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Speaker 7: that we discovered back in twenty seventeen and that looked

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Speaker 7: really weird, I mean, was stumbling every eight hours. The

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Speaker 7: amount of sunlight reflected from it would change by a

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Speaker 7: factor of ten during those stumbles, and that implied a

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Speaker 7: very extreme shape that is most likely flat like a pancake.

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Speaker 7: And the object also exhibited an excess push away from

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Speaker 7: the sun without showing any evidence for cometary evaporation the

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Speaker 7: rocket effect that push it, And so the question.

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Speaker 6: Was what was it?

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Speaker 7: And actually three years later, the same telescope in Hawaii

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Speaker 7: pant Stars that discovered on MoMA discovered another object pushed

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Speaker 7: by reflecting sunlight. It was actually a nineteen sixty six

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Speaker 7: rocket booster that was launched by NASA. So here you

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Speaker 7: have an example of a technological object that is just

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Speaker 7: space trash that we produced. But I'm really looking forward

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Speaker 7: to interstellar objects that are found to be technologically produced

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Speaker 7: that are not human made, and it should be straightforward,

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Speaker 7: as straightforward as it was to find this rocket booster

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Speaker 7: that was named the twenty twenty so and with a

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Speaker 7: large data set like the one that the Rubin Observator

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Speaker 7: will start giving this year twenty twenty five. We will

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Speaker 7: be able to use AI machine learning and go through

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Speaker 7: the data and look for things that in the past

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Speaker 7: would take us a long time to do just using

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Speaker 7: humans to explore the data. In terms of science and

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Speaker 7: what science addresses, there is another obstacle, which is what

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Speaker 7: is considered reasonable to do at any given time. And

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Speaker 7: one of the reasons that exoplanets were not discovered decades

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Speaker 7: earlier is that nobody expected Jupiter like planets tenth of

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Speaker 7: a percent of the mass of the Sun, and it's

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Speaker 7: located quite far from the Sun. But if it were

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Speaker 7: closer to a star like the Sun, it would move

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Speaker 7: the star back and forth in a very measurable, easy

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Speaker 7: to detect way. And this prediction was already made back

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Speaker 7: in nineteen fifty two in a scientific paper that people

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Speaker 7: in the community ignore. As a result, for decades time,

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Speaker 7: a location committees on telescopes would not provide any observing

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Speaker 7: time to search for hot jupiters jupiters that are close

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Speaker 7: to their host star.

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Speaker 6: But lo and behold.

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Speaker 7: In nineteen ninety five, such a system was discovered and

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Speaker 7: the Nobel Prize was awarded to the discover discoverers. So

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Speaker 7: what this teaches us is very often scientists are reluctant

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Speaker 7: to take a risky approach and check for things that

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Speaker 7: are not expected. The person who discovered most of the

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Speaker 7: objects in the Coiper Belt at the distance of about

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Speaker 7: one hundred times the Earth sun separation, Mike Brown from Caltech,

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Speaker 7: visited me about a decade ago. I asked him a

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Speaker 7: simple question. I said, for all these objects in the

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Speaker 7: Coiper Belt of the Solar System, did you ever check

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Speaker 7: whether they get dimmer as they increase the distance from

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Speaker 7: the sun. You might expect for just reflection of sunlight.

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Speaker 7: In that case, the object will get dimmer inversely with

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Speaker 7: distance to the fourth power, because the fraction of sunlight

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Speaker 7: intercepted by the object declines inversely with distance squad. And

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Speaker 7: then there is another factor of one of a distance

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Speaker 7: squad for what we see from that reflection, So altogether

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Speaker 7: it's one over distance to the fourth However, if you

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Speaker 7: have an object that produces its own light, then you

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Speaker 7: would just have dimming inversely with distance squads. So you

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Speaker 7: can tell the difference as the object recedes from us

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Speaker 7: as to whether it produces its own light or just

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Speaker 7: reflects sunlight, And as him, did you ever check? Because

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Speaker 7: he has data on all these objects? And he said,

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Speaker 7: why should I check? It's obviously one over distance to

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Speaker 7: the fourth. And so that shows you the psychology of

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Speaker 7: even observers. You know, they're not supposed to behave like

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Speaker 7: theories that have a prejudice or some prior notion. They're

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Speaker 7: supposed to say, I have the data, why don't I

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Speaker 7: check for it? Or why don't I collect data that

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Speaker 7: will allow me to decide because maybe, you know, maybe

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Speaker 7: there is some spacecraft out there that produces its own light,

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Speaker 7: that was the reason I asked for it, or maybe

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Speaker 7: there is a city on Pluto who knows, and to

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Speaker 7: check that it doesn't cost much because he already has

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Speaker 7: the data.

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Speaker 5: And so I.

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Speaker 7: Think part of the reason that science progresses more slowly

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Speaker 7: is the prejudice and the reluctance of scientists to take risks.

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Speaker 5: I find that very frustrating.

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Speaker 4: You know that that telescope that you mentioned, I love

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Speaker 4: the name that they gave that telescope and Chili the

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Speaker 4: extremely large telescope.

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Speaker 7: Oh yeah, question the problem with that name is what

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Speaker 7: would you call the next one?

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 7: I mean, obviously we're on a path where telescopes will

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Speaker 7: get bigger as in the next century. And we keep

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Speaker 7: imagining that we are at the end of history.

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Speaker 5: Right, right, We're always at the top. That's our that's

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Speaker 5: our you know.

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Speaker 7: Well, that will soon be proven wrong because AI is

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Speaker 7: about to get smarter than us within the coming decade,

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Speaker 7: maybe even sooner. And AI usually represents artificial intelligence, but

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Speaker 7: in my mind it also represents alien intelligence, meaning perhaps

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Speaker 7: we will also find that another civilization or another planet

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Speaker 7: around another star is smarter than us, and there is

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Speaker 7: a race between two threats to our sense of superiority.

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Speaker 7: It will either come from AI outsmarting us and manipulating

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Speaker 7: us this is our own technological kid that we created,

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Speaker 7: or it will come from another star, and in both cases,

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Speaker 7: for the first time in human history, we would feel

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Speaker 7: that we are not the smartest kid in the class.

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Speaker 4: So we have new artificial intelligence coming forward. We have

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Speaker 4: these new space telescopes. How do you think they could

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Speaker 4: specifically help us find extradustrial life?

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Speaker 7: Right, So this is actually touching on the Galileo project

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Speaker 7: that time leading at Harvard University, we have built an

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Speaker 7: observatory that monitors the sky twenty four to seven in

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Speaker 7: the infrared, optical, radio, and audio, and the data is

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Speaker 7: being analyzed by artificial integence and machine learning. So the

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Speaker 7: approach in general is to look for things that are

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Speaker 7: not familiar because we know about airplanes, balloons, drones, satellites.

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Speaker 7: These are things we know about and we know how

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Speaker 7: they move. So if we have an estimate of the

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Speaker 7: distance of any of these things, objects that we see

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Speaker 7: in the sky, we can identify by training the machine

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Speaker 7: learning software. And I'm not trying to imagine when we

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Speaker 7: do this work what the anomalous objects would look like,

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Speaker 7: because you know, as you said before, there might be

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Speaker 7: technologies that we cannot even imagine. Let's just see if

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Speaker 7: there is anything that is not familiar, anything that is anomalous.

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Speaker 7: We just published a paper paper got accepted for application

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Speaker 7: on the first half a million objects that we monitored

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Speaker 7: over the past five months. And the next thing we

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Speaker 7: are doing is triangulating, having multiple units of our detector

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Speaker 7: separated by a few miles so that we can look

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Speaker 7: at the same object from different directions and figure out

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Speaker 7: its location precisely. The distance is really important because an

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Speaker 7: object moving close to you could move across the sky

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Speaker 7: very fast, so the distance is critical as to assessing

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Speaker 7: what is the actual speed of the object. Moreover, we

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Speaker 7: are building two additional observatories, one in Pennsylvania, another one

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Speaker 7: in Nevada, and by summer twenty twenty five we hope

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Speaker 7: to have three working observatories that will collect data on

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Speaker 7: more than a million objects every year. And that means

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Speaker 7: that even if one in a million behaves in ways

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Speaker 7: that cannot be described by human made technologies, we can

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Speaker 7: potentially find it and report about it to the public.

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Speaker 7: You might say, okay, well maybe the US government has

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Speaker 7: data that indicates that. Well, they don't focus on one

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Speaker 7: in a million, and they're happy if they explain ninety

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Speaker 7: seven percent. It's not good enough for science. They're really

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Speaker 7: focused on national security. That's their day job. But my

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Speaker 7: day job is to figure out what lies outside the

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Speaker 7: solar system, and that's what we will do with the

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Speaker 7: Garillo Project observatories.

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Speaker 4: When we come back, we're going to talk to Professor

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Speaker 4: Lowe about his expedition to see what fell into the ocean,

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Speaker 4: perhaps from the discovery. You're listening to Beyond Contact on

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Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio on coast to coast am Paranormal podcast Network.

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Speaker 4: We are back on Beyond Contact. We're talking with Professor Avilobe.

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Speaker 4: Professor Lobe, this expedition you led out to Papua New Guinea,

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Speaker 4: I believe to search the ocean for any debris that

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Speaker 4: could have found.

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Speaker 5: Can you tell us what you discovered there.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, So the story starts from twenty twenty when I

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Speaker 7: was interviewed on the radio for a meteor that landed

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Speaker 7: near Kamchatka, and I looked online and realized that in fact, NASA,

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Speaker 7: through the Jet Propulsion Lab, compiles a catalog of meteors

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Speaker 7: discovered by US government satellites. There are these satellites that

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Speaker 7: are seeking any flashes of heat generated by ballistic missiles

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Speaker 7: when they're launched around the globe. And every now and

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Speaker 7: then they see a fire ball from an object colliding

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Speaker 7: with Earth from far away, and obviously these are no

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Speaker 7: interest to national security, so they just put the data

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Speaker 7: about fire balls from meteors in a site, a website,

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Speaker 7: and together with my student, we were searching whether any

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Speaker 7: of these objects over the past decade could have arrived

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Speaker 7: from outside the Solar System. Whether you know, that is

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Speaker 7: easy to identify because such an object moves at a

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Speaker 7: speed that exceeds the escape speed from the Solar System.

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Speaker 7: So once the object moves fast enough, it cannot be

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Speaker 7: bound by gravity to the Sun like the planets are.

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Speaker 7: And so we found such an object that was actually

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Speaker 7: outside the Solar System. Based on the data, was moving

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Speaker 7: at sixty kilometers per second, which is faster than ninety

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Speaker 7: five percent of the stars near the Sun. And so

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Speaker 7: that was a very unusual object. And it actually was

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Speaker 7: roughly half a meter in size. It exploded about twenty

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Speaker 7: kilometers over the Pacific Ocean outside the territorial waters of

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Speaker 7: Papua and New Guinea. After the US Space Command confirmed

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Speaker 7: that indeed the ninety nine point nine to nine percent

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Speaker 7: confidence this object indeed came from outside the Solar System,

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Speaker 7: I decided to lead an expedition to the Pacific Ocean

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Speaker 7: location that was identified for the fireball, which was specified

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Speaker 7: to within a seven mile region, and we went on

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Speaker 7: a ship. The ocean depth is about a mile in

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Speaker 7: that location, and we used a sled cover with magnets

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Speaker 7: to go across the ocean floor back and forth twenty

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Speaker 7: six times and collect any meteoritic material magnetic particles from

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Speaker 7: the ocean floor, and we collected about eight hundred and

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Speaker 7: fifty molten droplets, and they were less than a millimeter

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Speaker 7: in size, and we brought them back from an analysis

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Speaker 7: at the laboratory of one of the world the renowned geochemists,

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Speaker 7: the best ones in the world and Steyn Jacobson. We

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Speaker 7: analyzed the materials and found that ten percent of those

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Speaker 7: molten droplets are made of a chemical composition that was

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Speaker 7: never potted before in the Solar system. So it looks

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Speaker 7: like we found materials that may have arrived from definitely

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Speaker 7: outside Earth, but most likely outside the Solar System. And

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Speaker 7: what we want to do is go there again, perhaps

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Speaker 7: in summer twenty twenty five if we get the funding.

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Speaker 7: It will cost six and a half million dollars for

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Speaker 7: us to use a remotely operated vehicle that's a robot

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Speaker 7: that we will place on the ocean floor with a

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Speaker 7: video feed that allows us to pick up big pieces

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Speaker 7: from the wreckage of this meteor. And if we find

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Speaker 7: any big pieces, they will tell us the identity the

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Speaker 7: nature of this original object, because maybe part of it

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Speaker 7: survived and we can easily tell whether it was a

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Speaker 7: rock or some technological gadget if we find the bigger pieces.

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Speaker 7: So as of now, I'm waiting patiently. There are a

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Speaker 7: few potential donors that are considering the possibility of funding us.

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Speaker 7: If we don't get the funding within the coming weeks,

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Speaker 7: we might lose the ship. We won't be able to

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Speaker 7: reserve it for August twenty twenty five. But if we

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Speaker 7: do get the funding to at least make a down payment,

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Speaker 7: then it would be very exciting. The previous expedition was

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Speaker 7: filmed by Netflix, and there will be a documentary that

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Speaker 7: will come out in twenty twenty towards the end of

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Speaker 7: twenty twenty five on that expedition, and also about the

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Speaker 7: study of a muamua that I mentioned before. You know,

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Speaker 7: these are very different objects. So Mua Moa was about

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Speaker 7: the size of a football field, never collided with Earth.

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Speaker 7: It just looked anomalous. It passed near Earth and didn't

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Speaker 7: look like any rock we have seen before in terms

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Speaker 7: of its properties. And this meteor was half a meter

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Speaker 7: in size, much smaller, and it collided with Earth and

439
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 7: we can potentially find the materials from it.

440
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 4: Well, what would be the other pieces of compelling evidence

441
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 4: that you feel would suggest that something off world, maybe

442
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 4: another civilization has been here.

443
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 7: Well, if you just need to find the technological object

444
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 7: that was clearly not produced by humans. For example, if

445
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 7: it features a knowledge that we currently don't possess, a

446
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 7: new propulsion system that is not based on chemical rockets,

447
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 7: for example.

448
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 4: Would metal be enough like it was a different kind

449
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 4: of metal or a different processed metal.

450
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 7: Well, just from the material composition, we can tell if

451
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 7: the object came from outside the Solar System, because all

452
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 7: the material in the Solar System was made around the

453
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 7: same time. I mean, the Solar system is four point

454
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 7: six billion years old. You know, most stars in the

455
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 7: Milky Way galaxy formed billions of years before the Sun,

456
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 7: and so they have different ages than the Sun. And

457
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 7: if you find an object that was built out of

458
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 7: materials around another star, the age of that material would

459
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 7: be quite different. How can you tell the age? You

460
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 7: can do that with isot topic radioactive dating. Basically, you

461
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 7: find isotopes of some heavy elements that have some lifetime.

462
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 7: Depending on how much of the original isotope you find

463
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 7: and relative to the decay products, you know, these daughter

464
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 7: nuclei that are made as a result of the decay,

465
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 7: you can tell how long ago the material was made.

466
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 6: It should be straightforward.

467
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 7: If there is you know more than a gram of material,

468
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 7: one can immediately tell whether that material came from outside

469
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 7: the source system by isotope analysis, and we can do it.

470
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 7: I mean, the only problem with the first expedition was

471
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 7: that we found tiny molten droplets that are less than

472
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 7: a millimeter in size, and there wasn't enough material in

473
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 7: them to allow us.

474
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 6: I mean it was only the.

475
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 7: Milligram level per fragment. We couldn't really get good the

476
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 7: isotopic analysis. But if we find bigger pieces, that will

477
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 7: be the key to being able to date the material.

478
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 5: I wonder if everybody would accept it too, though.

479
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 7: Well, that's the way science works. The evidence, you know,

480
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 7: is key. So first you have to collect the materials.

481
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 7: Then you know, if anyone disputes it, we can share

482
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 7: the material with them, and you know they will reach

483
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 7: similar conclusions. I mean, there is no way out of that.

484
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 7: So if you date materials of an object that most

485
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 7: likely came from outside the solar sism because there was

486
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 7: evidence for a.

487
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 6: Very fast moving meteor, let's say, and you.

488
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 7: End up finding that the isotopanalysis indicates an age very

489
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 7: different than the age of the Solar System, I think

490
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 7: it will be clear beyond any doubt that this is

491
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 7: indeed the material of that interstellar object. And moreover, if

492
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 7: you find a big enough piece that indicates that it's

493
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 7: technological rather than piece of rock, you know that also

494
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 7: can be quite conclusive. I should say that I asked

495
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 7: my students what to do. Suppose we find the gudget

496
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 7: that has buttons on it. Should we press a button?

497
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 5: It's a great question. What do you answer? You say? Yes?

498
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 7: Well, so half of the class said, please don't push

499
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 7: it because it could affect all of us. And then

500
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 7: the other half of the class said, please push it

501
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 7: because we would like to know. Maybe it's aid GPT

502
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 7: one hundred.

503
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 5: And maybe it blows up the earth.

504
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 7: But then a student from the class said the Professor Lobe,

505
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 7: what would you actually do, because it looks like there

506
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 7: is a split vote here in the class. And I said,

507
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 7: I will take it to the laboratory and examine it

508
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 7: before engaging with it.

509
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 5: Well, I guess that's the right answer. There, you go.

510
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 4: Okay, when we come back, we're going to take one

511
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 4: left break here. We're going to ask Professor Lobe another

512
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 4: question about AI. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the

513
00:30:44,520 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio and coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.

514
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 5: We are back on beyond contact.

515
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 4: We have the pleasure of speaking with mister Avi Lobe today,

516
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 4: Professor Lobe. If we were going to use AI ourselves

517
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 4: to communicate with another civilization, obviously that's what we would

518
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 4: probably do because we wouldn't know what they speak, so

519
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 4: we would use some sort of AI. Do you think

520
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 4: it's reasonable to assume that the other civilization would be

521
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 4: doing the same thing? Therefore, isn't it probable that if

522
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 4: we did have an official contact with another civilization, it

523
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 4: would most likely be a form of AI talking to

524
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 4: a form of AI.

525
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's quite possible.

526
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 7: The thing to keep in mind is any visit by

527
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 7: a messenger may not involve biological creatures because of.

528
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 6: The risks and into space.

529
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 7: They are energetic particles bombarding any spacecraft.

530
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 6: There are X rays.

531
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 7: The journey takes a long time, well beyond the current

532
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 7: lifespan of all forms of life that we know about.

533
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 7: Takes a billionaires for voyager to move from the Solar

534
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 7: System to the opposite side of the Milky Way galaxy.

535
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 5: You just wrote a paper.

536
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 6: Yes.

537
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 7: The point is that you can design technologically systems that

538
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 7: will have their own artificial intelligence. And also it takes

539
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 7: a long time for signals to cross interstellar distances, and

540
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 7: there is not enough time for the gadget to wait

541
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 7: for guidance from the center. It's sort of like sending

542
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 7: out your kids, and you don't expect them to ask

543
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 7: for guidance at every moment any decision they have to make,

544
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 7: they just report back on the highlights of their trip,

545
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 7: and the same should be true for interstellar travelers. One

546
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 7: hundred years ago, there was a philosopher named the Martin Buber.

547
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 7: He was at Prince He came up with the philosophy

548
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 7: that there are three types of interactions that humans have.

549
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 7: One is a human human interaction, another one is a

550
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 7: human object interaction. And finally, he also since he was religious,

551
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 7: he talked about human God interaction. He came up with

552
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 7: these categories before computers came along, and if he were

553
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 7: to live today, he would have needed to add human

554
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 7: AI interactions and AI AI interactions. And in the latter

555
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 7: category of AIAI interactions, I'm not just thinking about our

556
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 7: own AI interacting with our own AI, but I'm thinking

557
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 7: also about terrestrial AI interacting with extraterrestrial AI, because they

558
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 7: might feel if they're made of silicon chips on both sides,

559
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 7: they might feel kinship to each other more than to us.

560
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 7: We are made of flesh and blood, and whenever we

561
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 7: try to align AI systems made of silicon chips is

562
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 7: to align them with our goals, with our hopes. To me,

563
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 7: it looks like trying to put lipstick on a pig

564
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 7: to make it more beautiful. It's it's just a different beast,

565
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 7: you know. It's at some point, you know, AI is

566
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 7: very different than previous tools that we use because you know,

567
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 7: when you drive a car, you hold the steering wheel

568
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 7: and you're in full control because the car is dumber

569
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 7: than you are. AI, for the first time in human history,

570
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 7: will represent a tool that could outsmart us, and that

571
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 7: would cause a lot of frustration because it may it

572
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 7: could manipulate us, and you know, there are risks to

573
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 7: mental health, there are risks to national security because of that, and.

574
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 5: We know what's manipulating us.

575
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 7: That's right, just the same way that you know when

576
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 7: we have a pet, the pet doesn't realize if you

577
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 7: manipulate them, you know, and a higher level of intelligence

578
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 7: could be such that we would trust and think that

579
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 7: we are in control, but in fact it's the other

580
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 7: way around.

581
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 4: One more question for you here is how do you

582
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 4: reconcile the Fermi paradox with the potential for extraterrestrial civilizations.

583
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 6: Yeah.

584
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 7: So when Enrico Fermi around nineteen fifty one, set at

585
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 7: lunch in Los Alamos, ask these colleagues where is everybody?

586
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 5: You know?

587
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 7: That reminds me of lonely people who keep asking this question.

588
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 7: Whereas you know, I don't have a partner. Where is everybody?

589
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 7: And what you often tell these people is that they

590
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 7: shouldn't be so presumptuous and arrogon. They shouldn't think that

591
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 7: they are so attractive that their partner will come to them.

592
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 7: They should engage in seeking a partner, looking through the

593
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 7: windows of your house, going out to dating sites. And

594
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 7: Rico Fermi didn't build a telescope. He just asked the question.

595
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 7: You know, you might say, it's an extraordinary claim to

596
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 7: assume that we have a partner, someone like us that

597
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 7: may have existed before us.

598
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 6: I don't think it's extraordinary.

599
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 7: I think it's an extraordinary claim and arrogon to think

600
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 7: that we are unique and special.

601
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 6: Moreover, people say, well.

602
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 7: For extraordinary claims, you need extraordinary evidence, but those people

603
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 7: are not seeking the evidence, So it's a circular argument.

604
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 7: It's really all about the hard work of using the

605
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 7: scientific method, searching for data, using the data to find

606
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 7: out whether we have a neighbor.

607
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't seem to think that Earth is such

608
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 4: a unique thing that everybody's going to be looking for us.

609
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 4: Planets like ours are probably out there in the universe, right. Yeah.

610
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 7: In fact, I don't think we are that interesting all

611
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 7: in all. You know, when I look at the news

612
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 7: every day, we are not that intelligent. You know, people

613
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 7: ask me why am I doing the research that I'm

614
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 7: doing it, and I say that I'm searching for a

615
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 7: higher intelligence in interestar space because I don't find it

616
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 7: often here on Earth.

617
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 4: That's a T shirt, Professor Loebe, You've got a T

618
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 4: shirt right there that can make a million dollars that

619
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 4: could fund your next expedition. Hey, one more question I

620
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 4: want to ask you is do you have any credence

621
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 4: in the idea of us possibly living in a simulated universe?

622
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 7: You know, I prefer to you know, maybe I belong

623
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 7: to an order generation, but I prefer to believe that

624
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 7: the reality is real, the physical reality of course, if

625
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 7: you have enough money in the bank, you can imagine

626
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 7: that there is nothing but a simulation. But if you

627
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 7: go through life and have to work hard for what

628
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 7: you accomplish, and you realize sometimes you're disappointed, and you know,

629
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 7: there is this sense that reality is independent of us.

630
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 7: It exists, we are part of it, and it's not

631
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 7: a simulation, it's something real, you know. I think the

632
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 7: problem with this assumption is that you lose responsibility for

633
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 7: what happens to you. So if you get a low

634
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 7: grade in an exam, you say, okay, well it's just

635
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 7: a simulation.

636
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 6: Who cares?

637
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 7: And that's really irresponsible and that would not bring a

638
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 7: bright future to humanity. I think we should assume that

639
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 7: the reality is real.

640
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 6: Now.

641
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 7: On the other hand, I I think that the universe,

642
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 7: you know, what was there before the Big Bank, before

643
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 7: the beginning that we know about is an open question.

644
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 7: And you know, if I had one question that I

645
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 7: can ask an alien scientist, it would be what happened

646
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 7: before the Big Bank. Now, it's possible that if we

647
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 7: understand how to unify quantum mechanics and gravity, which we

648
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 7: don't at the moment, with a predictive theory, we'll figure

649
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 7: out the ingredients that were put together to make our

650
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 7: big bank our universe, so we will know the recipe

651
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 7: for making a baby universe. It doesn't mean that we

652
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 7: could make a baby universe because you also need an oven,

653
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 7: and you need the ingredients, and you know, we may

654
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 7: not have a particle collider that reaches the necessary energy

655
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 7: density to make a baby universe.

656
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 6: At least we would know the recipe.

657
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 7: And that's, you know, part of the way to becoming God,

658
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 7: because you know that if you had to define what

659
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 7: what is the requirement if you want to apply to

660
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 7: the job of God, you know, one requirement is that

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00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 7: you should be able to make a universe. The quantum

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00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 7: gravity engineers could potentially do that if they're advanced enough.

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Speaker 7: So as to the origin of our universe, you know,

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00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 7: there is this possibility that a scientist in a white

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00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 7: lab coat created it, and we call that scientist God

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00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 7: because we just don't have the technology to create baby universes.

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00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 6: Now, this is not the same.

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00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 7: As arguing that we live in a simulation, because all

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Speaker 7: I'm saying is, you know, we were born out of

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00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 7: the womb of our mothers, and so were they born

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00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 7: out of a womb of their mothers and so forth,

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00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 7: and so you can imagine a physical reality that we

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00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 7: see in the universe being born out of another universe

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00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 7: in which there were quantum gravity engineers that created our universe,

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Speaker 7: and then this cycle continues indefinitely.

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Speaker 4: All right, everyone, you can help support Professor Lobe and

677
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 4: the Galileo Project. Just do a search for Galileo Project

678
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 4: and Harvard University. Please support that cause we are behind

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00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 4: at one thousand percent. He's doing everything that I really

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00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 4: really want in this world. Thanks so much for your time, Professor.

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00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 4: It was really great honor and a lot of fun

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00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 4: to talk to you.

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Speaker 6: Thanks for having me.

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00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 4: Thank you so much again, Professor, and thank you all

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00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 4: for listening to be on Contact. We're going to be

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00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 4: back next week with an all new episode. You can

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00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,959
Speaker 4: follow me Captain Ron on Twitter and Instagram at CID

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00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 4: Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out Contact inthedesert

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00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 4: dot com. Stay open minded and rational as we explore

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00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 4: the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to

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00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 4: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost

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00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,000
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00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,160
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