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Speaker 1: Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spaike and welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through

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Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and

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Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is

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Speaker 1: so great to have you here, back for another episode,

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Speaker 1: Back for a very important episode of the Psychology of

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Speaker 1: Your Twenties. You know what I always find so weird

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Speaker 1: about being alive In this day and age, we have

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Speaker 1: so much information and so much knowledge about literally everything.

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Speaker 1: We know what stars are made of, we know how

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Speaker 1: old trees are, we understand complex maths. We just sent

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Speaker 1: like what was it like eight People to the Moon.

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Speaker 1: Schools will teach you all these things. They will literally

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Speaker 1: spend fifteen years teaching you what essentially ends up amounting

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Speaker 1: to fun facts and no one will ever talk about

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Speaker 1: like the crucial foundational things to do with friendships, to

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Speaker 1: deal with relationships, to do with maintaining connections, like despite

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Speaker 1: them being the most important parts of being alive. I

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Speaker 1: was never taught how to tell if somebody is just

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Speaker 1: using you. I was never taught how to deal with

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Speaker 1: conflict in the family, and I was definitely never given

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Speaker 1: any formal or even informal instruction on how to repair

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Speaker 1: and mend a friendship, and I would bet a lot

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Speaker 1: of money that neither were you. So I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about it today and just see what was out

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Speaker 1: there in terms of the best and worst ways to

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Speaker 1: go about tricky situations with your friends. There's so much

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Speaker 1: emphasis these days as well on building community and being

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Speaker 1: the village. That is everywhere you see, everywhere you look online,

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Speaker 1: somebody is posting or talking about how to make friends offline,

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Speaker 1: how to be a better neighbor, and all that stuff,

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Speaker 1: and I actually rarely see people talk about the less

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Speaker 1: attractive parts of that, which is fighting with friends, how

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Speaker 1: to handle conflict, why it's normal to be annoyed with

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Speaker 1: the people you care about, and how to get through that,

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Speaker 1: how to survive some of the deepest hurts coming from

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Speaker 1: your friends. I feel like it is this major gap

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Speaker 1: in our understanding and conversations as humans that never gets

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Speaker 1: talked about. And as somebody who has had some pretty

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Speaker 1: serious friendships like explosions in the past five years and

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Speaker 1: in my twenties, some of which were entirely my fault,

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Speaker 1: but some of which were just good old fashioned miscommunication.

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Speaker 1: I just feel like this is the hard, no nonsense

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Speaker 1: advice I still need, but have needed, for having awkward

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Speaker 1: conversations with the people that I love who are my friends.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's get into our guide on

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Speaker 1: how to repair a friendship. In my opinion, friendship fallouts

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Speaker 1: are like a life defining pain in many ways, like

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Speaker 1: falling out with your friends, arguing with your friends, having

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Speaker 1: conflict can change the course of our lives at times.

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Speaker 1: I also think losing a friend is a form of

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Speaker 1: grief that no one wants to get into. Nobody wants

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Speaker 1: to touch that, nobody talks about it enough, probably because

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Speaker 1: we devalue the necessity of friendship in the modern world

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Speaker 1: and we kind of see them as expendable. I really

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Speaker 1: think that friendship fallouts can be even more devastating than

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Speaker 1: romantic ones. When you have a romantic breakup, people around

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Speaker 1: you like they know how to treat you. There's like

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Speaker 1: an agreed upon grieving period. They know that like you're

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Speaker 1: gonna be very sad, they know to throw ice cream

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Speaker 1: at the situation. But when it's a friend, people just

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Speaker 1: kind of expect you to be normal. I also think

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Speaker 1: there are like unconscious rules for fighting in a relationship,

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Speaker 1: right You kind of know in a relationship that you

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Speaker 1: need to resolve things between like twenty four and seventy

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Speaker 1: two hours. You're a lot more dependent on each other,

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Speaker 1: so there's like more humility. You know. If you can't

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Speaker 1: get through it, you just break up and that's it.

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Speaker 1: Like you break up. You can be fighting with a

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Speaker 1: friend for like months, and it can linger in a

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Speaker 1: way it doesn't with a partner. You can at times

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Speaker 1: never get to a resolution and just like never speak again,

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Speaker 1: and eventually like you were just these two strangers who

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Speaker 1: for a time loved and cared for each other, and

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Speaker 1: now you just have this weird baggage you don't even

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Speaker 1: really understand anymore. I think friendships we expect them to

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Speaker 1: be these super steady things. We expect them to be

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Speaker 1: our most dependable relationships. In many ways, they are not,

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Speaker 1: And the older you get, you realize how much conflict

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Speaker 1: does actually show up in friendship. I would say there

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Speaker 1: are three types of friendship breakups, the fizzle, the blow up,

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Speaker 1: and the mis communication. First is the slow fizzle. We

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Speaker 1: have all experienced this. I'm so sure of it. Time

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Speaker 1: just simply like changes the strength of a bond. A

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Speaker 1: close friendship becomes less close. You kind of gently fade

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Speaker 1: away from each other's lives. You see each other less,

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Speaker 1: you catch up less, and it's I think personally it

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Speaker 1: gets to a stage where it's like mutually understood that

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Speaker 1: you're both a little bit okay with it. This might

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Speaker 1: be because of distance. Classic example is like after you

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Speaker 1: leave UNI, but also somebody gets into a relationship, somebody

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Speaker 1: gets a partner, and that just like completely disrupts the dynamic.

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Speaker 1: I think, especially in our twenties, it's just like the

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Speaker 1: most major source of the fizzle, especially amongst really close friends,

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Speaker 1: Like somebody gets a partner and the central relationship is

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Speaker 1: replaced at the center of allbit shifts from your friends

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Speaker 1: to the person you're romantically interested in, whether we like

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Speaker 1: it or not, meaning you just become like less available.

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Speaker 1: The friendship slowly diminishes because you're not having those opportunities

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Speaker 1: for like close contact. That is the first friendship fallout

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Speaker 1: that we typically see. We also can fall out with

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Speaker 1: our friends because of communication. This is like a classic

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Speaker 1: situation nobody is distinctly in the wrong, but both people

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Speaker 1: have a hard time or are unable to understand the

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Speaker 1: other person's perspective. Both people are wounded by the miscommunication

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Speaker 1: and often or maybe it's just one person, but often

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Speaker 1: neither person. Either one person doesn't really know what's going on,

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Speaker 1: what's going on, or neither person is really willing to

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Speaker 1: recognize that the other person didn't hurt them out of

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Speaker 1: ill intent, Like they just are left with the wound,

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Speaker 1: separate from the intention, and so it's kind of hard

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Speaker 1: to be around them. Or you just kind of never

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Speaker 1: get around to talking to this person, and so either

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Speaker 1: you let it lie or it does end up becoming

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Speaker 1: the fizzle, and then we have the full on friendship blowout.

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Speaker 1: And I think this gets all the attention right. We

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Speaker 1: are talking about someone or both people doing something really bad,

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Speaker 1: severely violating trust, betrayal, situations that just expose deep cracks

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Speaker 1: in the friendship. Somebody has done something deeply inconsiderate. Somebody

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Speaker 1: has broken promises. Maybe somebody has hurt even the people

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Speaker 1: that you love like family, other friends of yours, your

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Speaker 1: partner in a way that you really never expected them to.

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Speaker 1: These can be, These these are these not can be.

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Speaker 1: These are painful and intense. I also think that of

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Speaker 1: those three of the fizzle, the miscommunication, and the and

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Speaker 1: the blow up, sometimes these are the easiest to recover

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Speaker 1: from because a moment like that of just like such

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Speaker 1: just like just like just a nuclear bomb on the friendship,

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Speaker 1: you kind of know the friendship is dead. Like there's

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Speaker 1: just a certainty there that other friendship fallouts don't always have.

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Speaker 1: Like obviously all of them hurt. All of these situations

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Speaker 1: are painful, that's definitely for sure. You're losing somebody who

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Speaker 1: is like really steady, or you're losing somebody that you

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Speaker 1: really care about. But I think when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the major fallouts, the closure is like in the story,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the fizzle, when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the miscommunication, that's where things get complicated. But I also

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Speaker 1: think those are the situations that we can recover from

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Speaker 1: and that we're kind of focusing on today. Moments that

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Speaker 1: are really uncomfortable, moments that feel difficult, that feel let's

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Speaker 1: just be real awkward, But where I think if you

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Speaker 1: just put a little bit of effort into saving the relationship,

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Speaker 1: it can be mended if you have the tools. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about it. How do we repair these kinds

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Speaker 1: of situations. I think the first step, the major step,

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Speaker 1: is understanding the psychology behind why we avoid confrontation and

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Speaker 1: why we avoid admitting our mistakes. Considering how important friendship

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Speaker 1: is literally there have been studies after studies showing they're

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Speaker 1: the most valuable thing for our health and wellbeing in

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Speaker 1: our lives, it still does always fascinate me how hard

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Speaker 1: it is for us to fight for them. I'm very

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Speaker 1: guilty of this myself, Like I probably don't even want

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Speaker 1: to admit it to myself that I am guilty of this,

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Speaker 1: but I know I am. And there's a science as

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Speaker 1: to why we have this kind of avoidance. Ninety percent

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Speaker 1: of it is ego, and not in their like I'm

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Speaker 1: better than everybody kind of way, I'm the shit kind

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Speaker 1: of way, in the self protection way, our ego. This

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Speaker 1: is something I always impress on people when I talk

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Speaker 1: about ego. It is not just responsible for our self esteem.

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Speaker 1: It is responsible for helping us to avoid all feelings

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Speaker 1: of pain, all feelings of rejection or disappointment that may

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Speaker 1: on counter to our internal sense of stability. That means

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Speaker 1: that it can often cause us to act in very

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Speaker 1: irrational ways just so that we feel safe in our

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Speaker 1: idea of ourselves and in our idea and our concept

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Speaker 1: of the world our ego. Though because of this function,

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Speaker 1: it just ends up like getting in the way of

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Speaker 1: being able to admit that you're wrong, Like it is

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Speaker 1: this big our ego, is this big god that stops

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Speaker 1: us from ever feeling bad about ourselves. However, that causes

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Speaker 1: problems when we're trying to repair a friendship because it

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Speaker 1: means that admitting that we're wrong becomes incredibly difficult and

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Speaker 1: opposed to our intrinsic psychological sense of self righteousness, it

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Speaker 1: makes it really hard to come to the realization that

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Speaker 1: we may not be the person we think we are.

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Speaker 1: We are flawed, we are sometimes impulsive, we are sometimes

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Speaker 1: in the wrong, sometimes we have we are the unkind

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Speaker 1: ones when we fall out with a friend right, the

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Speaker 1: chaos of that emotion and the surge of emotion to

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Speaker 1: defend and rationalize our actions and to protect our ego

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Speaker 1: often often does the does the opposite thing to what

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Speaker 1: we should be doing. It's just there to make us

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Speaker 1: feel superior when we are in these situations where people

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Speaker 1: are hurt. Being superior is like the last thing that

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Speaker 1: we should be prioritizing, but we cannot help it. That

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Speaker 1: instinct to defend an attack is incredibly strong. I think

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Speaker 1: this is also exacerbated by this sunk cost feeling. When

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Speaker 1: we've committed to something to a point of view, to

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Speaker 1: us being right, it becomes harder for us to leave

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Speaker 1: that behind. We become very entrenched in it. Obviously, this

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Speaker 1: can happen in so many situations. It happens with relationships,

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Speaker 1: it happens with jobs, and then of course it does

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Speaker 1: have been with our experiences, and it happens without arguments,

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Speaker 1: and it happens with our feelings, and it causes this

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Speaker 1: strange situation where deep down we know we need to

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Speaker 1: amend our perspective, We know there are things that we

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Speaker 1: need to admit to, but this deeper, unconscious part of

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Speaker 1: us keeps blocking us from doing so. This is like

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Speaker 1: an interesting tibit and interesting sidebar. Studies have shown that

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Speaker 1: young women in particular stay angry towards their female friends

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Speaker 1: for longer because of this mechanism, especially compared to men.

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Speaker 1: And what they think it is is because social standing

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Speaker 1: and the thread of social rejection is a lot stronger

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Speaker 1: for women. They feel a deeper sense that they need

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Speaker 1: to protect themselves. A study from twenty fourteen had students

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Speaker 1: role play a real conflict scenario from their own lives.

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Speaker 1: They recorded the male up responses the female responses, and

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Speaker 1: again they found that women reported their anger dissipated a

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Speaker 1: lot less quickly, and it took them longer to reconcile.

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Speaker 1: Their heart rate was also higher. Social conflict impacted them

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Speaker 1: on a more psychological and emotional level than it did

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Speaker 1: for men. And I don't want you to take these

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Speaker 1: results out of context and be like women are emotional,

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Speaker 1: women are insecure, women are just these like pea brain

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Speaker 1: bod but whatever. It's just that they often stick with

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Speaker 1: their first intuition for longer, which is an interesting fact

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Speaker 1: about the role of the ego and the gender differences.

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Speaker 1: I think the second reason we find it hard to

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Speaker 1: admit our mistakes or really get into the core of

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Speaker 1: a friendship fallout is because of avoidance, and the fact

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Speaker 1: that avoidance feels a lot like control in a situation

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Speaker 1: that is beyond our control, especially if you're an anxious person,

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Speaker 1: especially if you are somebody who is a very socially

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Speaker 1: anxious person, just as we might avoid I don't know,

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Speaker 1: going to the dentist afraid to get a needle or

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Speaker 1: have a feeling. Just as we avoid those things, we

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Speaker 1: also avoid someone we are disagreeing with. We avoid having

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Speaker 1: what we know is a much needed conversation because we

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Speaker 1: don't want to feel uncomfortable emotions. Emotions like disappointment, anger, sadness,

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Speaker 1: guilt disrupt our emotional center and it feels it makes

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Speaker 1: us feel very out of depth as well to confront

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Speaker 1: somebody else's emotions that are similar to us, like their

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Speaker 1: confusion and their anger. Again, this is not because we

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Speaker 1: are cruel or uncaring. If you are in the situation

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Speaker 1: now where you're like, I know I need to have

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Speaker 1: this conversation, I cannot do it. It's all because you

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Speaker 1: are trying to maintain emotional control. When we avoid things,

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Speaker 1: we control our emotional world by avoiding disrupting it with

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Speaker 1: short term disruptions and short term anxiety and emotional chaos.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is that's not a real short term avoidance.

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Speaker 1: You know that can lead and often does lead and

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Speaker 1: will lead to long term resentment, to disappointment, to irreversible

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Speaker 1: harm and feelings of hurt that most importantly increasingly diminish

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Speaker 1: the likelihood that things will ever be fixed. I think

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Speaker 1: that was a double negative. But yeah, increasingly diminished, Like

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Speaker 1: they just continue to diminish the chances that things are

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Speaker 1: going to get better. I also think my final reason

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Speaker 1: why I think that we avoid these kind of situations

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Speaker 1: is because oftentimes we're waiting for a clarity about the

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Speaker 1: situation that we think only comes from distance, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: we probably don't know how to feel about the friendship.

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Speaker 1: We're kind of a bit confused about what we want

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Speaker 1: from the friendship because things are so like have changed

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Speaker 1: so quickly, because we don't have all the information, and

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Speaker 1: so we like we delude ourselves into thinking in that

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Speaker 1: state of ambiguity. The more we think about the situation,

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Speaker 1: the more we get others' opinions, The more we let

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Speaker 1: the dust settle, the more clearly we will start to

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Speaker 1: see things as they are. But in my experience, this

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Speaker 1: is just putting off, putting off the like the ability

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Speaker 1: to really tackle the core emotion. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: that time ever makes things more clear after a certain point. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: there's immense value in calming down, like after an initial

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Speaker 1: dispute or after a fight or after a disagreement. That's

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Speaker 1: like emotional regulation one oh one. But when you keep

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Speaker 1: thinking that an answer will come from talking about it

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Speaker 1: over and over again, especially with people who are not

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Speaker 1: that person or the person you have a problem with,

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Speaker 1: that's avoidance. And speaking from direct personal experience, I think

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Speaker 1: that deep down you probably know what you need to do,

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Speaker 1: and I think you know, oh what outcome or what

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Speaker 1: apology or what answer you want. And this applies in

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Speaker 1: all directions, by the way, whether you feel like you're

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Speaker 1: the one responsible for the rift or you're the one

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Speaker 1: who was hurt, you know, and I think repairing a friendship.

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Speaker 1: What this is all telling us is that it's really

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Speaker 1: just an ego exercise at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: because it means and requires, like the psychological necessity Number

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Speaker 1: one is that at some point you will have to

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Speaker 1: admit your fault as a friend, even if you were

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent right in that situation, even if your

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Speaker 1: only fault is that now you're avoiding saying what you're feeling.

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Speaker 1: It is an ego exercise. It's going to cause you

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Speaker 1: to have to really examine how you may be messed up.

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Speaker 1: So with that in mind, we're going to take a

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Speaker 1: short break and we're just going to get right into it,

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Speaker 1: step by step, no nonsense guide. How are we going

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Speaker 1: to approach this person, what text message are we going

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Speaker 1: to send them, how are we going to have the conversation.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about it after the short break,

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Speaker 1: So stay with us. Let me say I do think

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Speaker 1: some of what we're about to talk about is going

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Speaker 1: to be fairly obvious to you, especially if you're like

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Speaker 1: a very emotionally intelligent, switched on person. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that we're applying it though. Just because you know it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're putting it into practice. I think

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Speaker 1: this is a common issue with being a very self

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Speaker 1: aware individual, Like you can have all the information and

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Speaker 1: number of the execution. So whatever situation you're in right now,

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Speaker 1: I want you to really picture your situation in this

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Speaker 1: context and just consider in every point, like how would

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Speaker 1: I go about this? How am I going to apply

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Speaker 1: this understanding. There's also a big question lingering here as well,

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Speaker 1: which is like, is my friendship worth saving? Is this

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Speaker 1: friendship best left in the past? I think yes, some are.

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Speaker 1: Some friendships are best left they're done right, the hurt

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Speaker 1: goes too deep, the situation is too unbearable, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to be friends with them anymore. That's just sometimes

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Speaker 1: the outcome. But I think that you're listening to this

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Speaker 1: episode for a reason, and I think when you feel

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Speaker 1: that tug and that lingering sense of like I miss them,

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Speaker 1: I still care about them, there's something left there, then

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Speaker 1: it's worth repairing. So the first thing that you're going

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Speaker 1: to do if you want to repair the friendship is

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Speaker 1: just reflect on why you want to mend it, Like

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Speaker 1: what do you seek to gain? There's no point mending

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Speaker 1: a friendship if you don't know why you value the friendship,

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Speaker 1: if you don't know what you want to change, if

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Speaker 1: you don't actually see a future with that person. Just

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Speaker 1: really dig in deep, what is it about this person? Like, honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's also a great humanizing exercise. What is it about

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Speaker 1: this person that you miss? What are your regrets to

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Speaker 1: do with this person? Do you with this situation, Like

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Speaker 1: do you feel like there's a misunderstanding you could overcome?

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like there are ways that you could

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Speaker 1: both learn from each other? Do you want to mend

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Speaker 1: the friendship to make things less uncomfortable for an upcoming event?

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Speaker 1: Like what is your intention? Because they are going to

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Speaker 1: be different, right, maybe your intention is like you feel

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Speaker 1: guilty and like you feel like you owe them an apology.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's motivation is going to be very, very different. Try

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Speaker 1: and identify what it is that yours is and the

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Speaker 1: difference between a friendship that you actively want to continue

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Speaker 1: and a situation that you just think deserves closure but

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Speaker 1: not necessarily the continuation of the relationship. I think both

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Speaker 1: of those situations are equally worthwhile, and they're both very

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Speaker 1: worthwhile options, right compared to the alternative of leaving the

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Speaker 1: situation just like open in festering and like never with

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Speaker 1: any closure. But they're going to necessitate a different approach, right.

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Speaker 1: They're both worthwhile, but you're going to have to go

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Speaker 1: about it alone little bit differently, because wanting a friendship

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Speaker 1: to repair means that you're going to have to do

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Speaker 1: a couple of extra steps. Wanting a friendship to just

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Speaker 1: have closure and understanding kind of means that you know

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Speaker 1: there doesn't really need to be behavioral change for the

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Speaker 1: other person, So it's more about like the conversation and

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Speaker 1: it probably could be resolved by a couple of hours

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Speaker 1: of just real deep talking. So just knowing that is

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Speaker 1: very very valuable. Secondly, Once you've kind of identified your motivation,

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Speaker 1: you have that increased self awareness around your intentions. I

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Speaker 1: think then the time comes to admit to yourself what

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Speaker 1: you did wrong or what you could have done better.

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Speaker 1: This might be controversial. If you want to repair a friendship,

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Speaker 1: you need to humble yourself, even if they played a

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Speaker 1: role as well, even if they played the main role.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know people won't agree with this. This

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00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: is an ego exercise though, and obviously this is probably

360
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: a miscommunication. This is a physicle. It's not a crazy breakdown.

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Speaker 1: You going in guns blazing, ready to defend yourself and

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Speaker 1: ready to defend your position to the death, unable to

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Speaker 1: make any concessions. This is not going to be productive, right.

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Speaker 1: Humbling yourself, admitting what you have done wrong, even if

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Speaker 1: it's just one or two things, is important for this

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Speaker 1: for this goal, which is to repair the friendship, because

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Speaker 1: it's not about scoring points. It's about restoring psychological safety.

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Speaker 1: It's about restoring trust. And when you're unwilling to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: your role even a small part, I think it signals defensiveness.

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Speaker 1: And I think and I know studies show us that

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Speaker 1: defensiveness is the thing that's going to immediately activate the

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Speaker 1: other person's threat response. They're immediately going to go on

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Speaker 1: the defensiveness. Like the defensive, They're going to feel unheard, invalidated.

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Speaker 1: They're going to become more entrenched in their own position

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Speaker 1: because that's where they feel safest. Again, this is closely

376
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Speaker 1: tied to our eager des mechanisms. We want to protect ourselves.

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Speaker 1: We don't want to feel like we are a bad person.

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00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: But it also shows that we're probably going in with

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Speaker 1: some cognitive dissonance where we're resisting some information that challenges

380
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,959
Speaker 1: our sense of being the good one, information or facts

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Speaker 1: that may actually be there. And I think beyond that,

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Speaker 1: just by humbling yourself, you will allow yourself to be

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Speaker 1: more present, and you allow yourself to have more empathy

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00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: for them. You will you lower the emotional stakes, you

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00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: model accountability. And researchers have also seen that it creates

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00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: what we call a reciprocity of vulnerability. Basically, when one

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00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: person softens and one person says I'm sorry for this

388
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: sets the emotional tone of openness, says I'm willing to learn,

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00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: the other person is far more likely to follow, so

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00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: it's a lot more fruitful. I just think that it

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00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: makes it. It just shifts the dynamic and the tone

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00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: from adversarial to collaborative. And guess what, even if the

393
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: other person doesn't do this as well, even if this

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00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: person is unwilling to humble themselves, it's still effective. And

395
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: it still means that you get to walk out with

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00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: more clarity because you'll be able to say, like, I

397
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: stepped into their shoes, I got the bird's eye view,

398
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: I was willing to take accountability. This part of my

399
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: job is done. The next step for repairing a friendship

400
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: is probably the hardest one. But somebody needs to reach

401
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: out first, right, like or if you're still in that

402
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: awkward state of like we both know something's wrong, but

403
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: neither of us really wants to touch it. If you're

404
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: in that situation, one of you needs to initiate that,

405
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: Like we need to talk protocol, and I think it

406
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: should be you and I can totally. I feel like

407
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: I can sense that you rolled your eyes, You've grown,

408
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: you took a deep breath. I know it sucks, but

409
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: I think you know I'm right as well. You're the

410
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: one who's listening to this, You're the one who knows

411
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: something's wrong. You're the one who has the intention of

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00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: repairing the friendship. So you're going to have to be

413
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: the bigger person. I'm going to talk you through exactly

414
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: what you're going to say, what you're going to send.

415
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: Don't worry, you won't be alone. But it has to

416
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: be you when you go to send the text, because

417
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: I think it's worth preparing somebody that you want to

418
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: have the conversation rather than just like being like boob,

419
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about it. Firstly, don't send the

420
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: message late at night, and don't send it from a

421
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,719
Speaker 1: place of hostility. I had a friendship broke up when

422
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: I was like twenty where a friend of mine texted

423
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: me probably one of the meanest messages I have ever

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00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: received in my life, at like two am in the morning,

425
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: essentially being like, we need to figure this out, but

426
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: by the way, you're in the wrong. That was the

427
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: day of my grandfather's funeral. Two am, the day of

428
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: my grandfather's funeral, he sent me that message. Any hope

429
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: of us repairing that friendship was like gone. In that second.

430
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: I knew I had serious things to apologize for. I

431
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: knew that I'd messed up, but I was just like,

432
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: this is so emotionally unsettling, and it's so clear to

433
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: me that you don't like you just want to yell

434
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: at me, and there's not going to be any collaboration

435
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: here that it was just like, that's it's, it's done.

436
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: If your intentions are to get somewhere from this five pm,

437
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: six pm after work, they have time to sit with it.

438
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: State your intentions clearly over text, So like, do you

439
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: want to apologize? Do you want to talk? Do you

440
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: want to figure out what happened? Do you want to

441
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: find a way through highlight the situation you are talking about,

442
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,719
Speaker 1: Like and tell your friend what the ideal outcome is

443
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: in your text message. Remember in this episode we are

444
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: talking about how to repair a friendship. This is like

445
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: the best way you can go about it to get

446
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: that outcome. This is like a make your own adventure

447
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: text message, right, But you can use this structure for everything,

448
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: you know. I'll give an example, like there's a different

449
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: between I want to talk about what happened at the

450
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: wedding intention so that we can be amicable for the

451
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: next wedding outcome and talk like intention action outcome versus

452
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: something like I want to apologize for what I said

453
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: to our mutual friend because I think that we can

454
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: get through this again intention outcome action and then like

455
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: another one just for fun, Like I felt hurt by

456
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: your actions a few weeks back, I want to clear

457
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: the air so that we can reach a mutual understanding

458
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: and move forward like that structure works always. I think

459
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: it probably would even work for it for a real breakup,

460
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: but that's for another time. I think it's really scary

461
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: to be the one to acknowledge that there's a problem,

462
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: but by saying it out loud, I think you're one

463
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: step closer to being able to just move on. There's

464
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: this amazing book by Claire Cohen called The Truth about

465
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: Female Friendship, and great book, by the way, but she

466
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: talks a lot in her book about how until somebody

467
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: takes that first step, the situation only exists in each

468
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: other's heads. And when it sits in your head, it's

469
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: mutated over and over again by you replaying and you

470
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: adding assumptions, and you having conversations with other people, and

471
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: it's adding all these these ingredients in until it becomes

472
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: this like nuclear version of what it once was. Like

473
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: keeping it aside is like keeping it in like a

474
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: toxic incubator until the conflict ends up representing something that

475
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: it never was to begin with. The easiest way to

476
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: kill this kind of beast and to stop this from developing,

477
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: it's just like just straight up be like, let's just

478
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: freaking tear it open and talk about it. Even if

479
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: it turns out nothing will change their mind, even if

480
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: they don't want to talk to you. That is still

481
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: closure in its own form. As I just mentioned, like,

482
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: there is that alternative, that alternative, and that outcome is

483
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: always possible. They may say no, they might ghost you,

484
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: and at that stage, as much as I said fight

485
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: for your friends, just leave it, like you did what

486
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: you thought was right and best for you, they're gonna

487
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: do the same thing. It goes without saying that. You know,

488
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: you shouldn't force the other person to engage with you

489
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: if they don't want to. And trust me, I get it.

490
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: I understand just how hurtful it can be for you

491
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: to like really put your heart on the line and

492
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: to be like really vulnerable and reaching out in the

493
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: first place, and for them to just be like no,

494
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: Like it hurts basically a form of social rejection, but

495
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: so much more like vulnerable. But I still think that's

496
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: an answer, like, I know, it's probably harder than if

497
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: you had had the conversation because there's this ambiguous loss

498
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: and it's obvious they have some very strong opinions that

499
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: they'll that you'll never hear and they'll never share with you,

500
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: and that means that you have to close the story.

501
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: But sometimes that's just life, right, that's a lesson. In

502
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: other ways, that's a lesson not in humility, but in acceptance.

503
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: And that's just the risk of ever being close to anybody.

504
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: Sometimes they don't see the importance of fighting for friendship.

505
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 1: Sometimes they don't see the importance of repairing. Sometimes you

506
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: have done things that you don't realize were immensely hurt

507
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: like harmful, that they don't want to talk about, and

508
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: that's just the way things are. Don't go digging, don't

509
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: go pushing. There is again a lesson in creating our

510
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: own closure. I actually found it helpful. I went through

511
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: a situation like this where I was like, I really

512
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: have probably screwed up. I want to talk about it.

513
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: I also didn't really know what had happened, and she

514
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: didn't want to talk to me. And I made this

515
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: list because I was like obsessing over it, and I

516
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: made this huge list of life, everything I loved about

517
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: this person, everything I wanted, like everything I wanted for her,

518
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: how happy I wanted to see her. And I also

519
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: just kept saying, like, this is the only way it

520
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: could have gone. The role we played in each other's

521
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: lives is over, but the role we played was important. Nonetheless,

522
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: this is just had it just had to be this way,

523
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: like this is just the state of our friendship. And

524
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: I actually saw her walking in London recently, walking down

525
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 1: my street in a different country with her partner, and

526
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: I was a bit of a coward I crossed the road,

527
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 1: but I kind of like looked back at home, just

528
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: like I don't know, we never got the closure, but

529
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: she looked really happy, and she just seemed really happy.

530
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: And maybe if we tried to fix things at that time,

531
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: and if she had reached out and accepted my like want,

532
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: my desire to like talk about it, or we wouldn't

533
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: be in the situations we were now, where we were happier,

534
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: not as friends, Like I just feel like that made

535
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: sense to me in that moment, that like the future

536
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: we needed meant that we couldn't be friends anymore. And

537
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: look at us both in these futures, very very happy,

538
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: and that was worth more to me than the closure

539
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,479
Speaker 1: conversation and figuring out what went wrong and why and

540
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: rehashing details. Not to say that's every situation, but I

541
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: think sometimes that is the situation, and now me having

542
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: the hindsight of being through that situation and like six

543
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: years later being like, wow, just like a breakup, it

544
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: all works out the way it should be, Like, it's

545
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: just something I kind of want to I don't know

546
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: impart on you, I guess, But back to the chat,

547
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: back to how we're going to approach when somebody says yes,

548
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: I think we do need to discuss rather than the

549
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: worst case scenario of nothing, prepare for the awkwardness and

550
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: prepared to possibly feel deeply misunderstood. I just part you're

551
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: coming to this like the reason you're in this situation

552
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: is because somebody was misunderstood and things were confusing, and

553
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: that's going to be like ripping off a band aid,

554
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: Like it's going to be deeply uncomfortable, and then you're

555
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: going to find such relief that it's just the ambiguity

556
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: is slowly disappearing. I also want you to trust that

557
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: you're an adult. They're an adult. You can handle conflict,

558
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: you can handle being uncomfortable, and in part, friction is

559
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: an important and is a necessity for growth and becoming

560
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: a better person. Seeing the friend in person as well

561
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: will also help you with this. Remembering that they are

562
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: flesh and blood, remembering that they deserve empathy is so

563
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: much more valuable than like having an argument over text

564
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: or even over the phone. It's harder, it's worth it.

565
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: And just give yourself a lot of time, like if

566
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: you're going to have this conversation, prepare to feel awkward.

567
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: Also prepare like a couple of hours, like, prepare a

568
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: couple hours to really hash things out. And I think

569
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: if you give yourself that space, I don't know anybody

570
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: who has ever regretted having a conversation like this with

571
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: a friend, even if it was awkward to begin with,

572
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: even if the outcome was less than ideal, because I

573
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: think putting yourself in what is going to be an

574
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: awkward situation first gives you answers. Secondly, probably will repair

575
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: your friendship. And it's also just really self affirming in

576
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: a way, even if it doesn't go right. I don't

577
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: know if this makes sense, but I think being willing

578
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 1: to put yourself in uncomfortable situations proves that you are

579
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: a person that fights for your friends, proves that you

580
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: are somebody who endures uncomfortable things for those they love,

581
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: proves that you are honest, proves that you can embrace

582
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: raw human emotion, and that you are the person that

583
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: you say you are. Like I can't, even if it

584
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: doesn't go your way, even if it makes you really anxious,

585
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: you can always leave that situation being like, at least

586
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: I tried. At least I thought, and here is proof

587
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: that I live out my values. I say I'm a

588
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: good person. I say I'm somebody who has hard conversations.

589
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: I say I'm a good friend. Here is the evidence. Like,

590
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: I endured this discomfort. I did the thing that was

591
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: not the easiest thing for somebody that I cared about,

592
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: and that in itself is I think. I don't know which.

593
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 1: I think just good for our self esteem and good

594
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: for our future capacity as a friend. Okay, let's take

595
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: one more short break here before we talk about a

596
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: few other things that you can prepare for and what

597
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: happens after the hard conversation is over. Stay with us

598
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: when it comes to having hard conversations with people you

599
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: love about situations you really don't love. One of the

600
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: best pieces of advice I've ever received came from a

601
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: mentor I had at my corporate job who told me,

602
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: in any conflict situation, prepare to be more silent than

603
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: you'd like to be. Basically, let the other person speak.

604
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: This is a time for listening, not debating. And I

605
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: think about that at least once a week. I always

606
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: think about that phrase that's like we have two in

607
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: one mouth, Like, try to use that ratio when you

608
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: are having a tough conversation. I think the reason this

609
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: is such a valuable rule is not because you shouldn't

610
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: say what you want to say, and it's not because

611
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: you don't have a right to speak up, but it

612
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: just goes directly against your brain's instinct in moments of

613
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: social tension to just jump in there, defend, be loud,

614
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: say your piece. When a conversation feels threatening, your nervous

615
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: system shifts into basically a mild version of fight or flight.

616
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: You're not just talking like you are subconsciously trying to

617
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: protect yourself because you feel like you're kind of in danger.

618
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 1: And that's when people end up saying doing communicating things

619
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: in ways they don't want to. So it's not about

620
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: speaking less, it's about giving yourself space to say what

621
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: you actually want to say. They over explain, they interrupt,

622
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: they defend. You are going to miss what's actually being

623
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: said underneath. All you're hearing is what you want to hear.

624
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: You're not listening to their explanation. You're not listening to

625
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: their point of view. You're not listening to their words

626
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: or their motivations. You're just listening to the context and

627
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: what you think applies to your feelings. There is also

628
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: a concept in psychology called reactance. This is our human

629
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: tendency to push back harder when we feel like someone

630
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: is trying to persuade or correct us, or trying to

631
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: force us into something we don't want to or we

632
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: don't want to do, or you force us into an apology,

633
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: force us into a perspective. And they've done studies on

634
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: this that reveal that when people do feel like they're

635
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: forced to apologize or show empathy before they truly have

636
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: enough information or they've said what they want to say,

637
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: it just creates more tension and conflict down the line. Obviously,

638
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: stand up for yourself. Obviously, be truthful, turn over the

639
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: stones that you want to turn over. But if you're

640
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: feeling overwhelmed by what this is going to bring up,

641
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: remember you can always just be silent whilst you process.

642
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: Like you don't immediately have to say something in response

643
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: to whatever it is they choose to say and not

644
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: to It's not a game. Obviously, it's not a tit

645
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: for tat competition, but I think it will probably give

646
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: you an advantage in many ways, at least in terms

647
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,479
Speaker 1: of emotional control. Part of repairing a friendship is also

648
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: knowing that you don't have to accept the first apology.

649
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: And then again, it's not advantageous for the future of

650
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: your friendship if you just if you just sweep things

651
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: under the rug and just take whatever the first thing

652
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: that comes to you is a way to placate your feelings,

653
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: and then you move forward. You may have to come

654
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: back to this a few times. You're allowed to say

655
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: I don't accept your apology, but I still want to

656
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: work it out, or I still don't see it that way,

657
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 1: or I still don't know if you see things from

658
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: my perspect instead of just thank you or i'm sorry

659
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: to I just think this is such like practical advice,

660
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: be silent, don't accept the first apology if you don't

661
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: want to. It takes so much vulnerability and strength to

662
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: come to the table and to outwardly admit things are

663
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: damaged and things are not what they should be. It

664
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: also takes a lot of courage to say I want

665
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 1: to fix them. And you're already in this uncomfortable space,

666
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: like you did the hardest thing of all, which was

667
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: to enter the conversation. So push on, stay in the

668
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: space until you get what you need or you both

669
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: sincerely feel better about the situation. I feel like I

670
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: personally see this a lot. People have the hard chat

671
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: or the confrontation and an apology is given or an

672
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: excuse is given because and it's just so awkward. They're like,

673
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: let's just get it over with and there's no actual

674
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: depth of understanding. And I think there's nothing worse than

675
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: coming out of one of these conversations, having done the

676
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: hard thing, telling everyone like, yeah, we're all good, things

677
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: are back to normal, and then hearing later on that

678
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: like they're still angry or there's still a problem. So like, communicate, communicate, communicate,

679
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: keep pushing, keep uncovering. If you feel like there is

680
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: things left unsaid, you know, you may as well like

681
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: you're here now, like you've done the hard thing. I

682
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: also think checking at the end with what the other

683
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: person is feeling. For instance, like again, you don't want

684
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: that discrepancy, Like you don't want there to be them

685
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: to walk away and be like we're totally fine and

686
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: you're like, no, we're not, or them to walk away

687
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: and be like they blamed me for everything, and you'd

688
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I really see their perspective, like, really

689
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: have a clear idea of what each other's point of

690
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: view is and what you want to change and what

691
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: they want to change. If the other person wants to

692
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 1: go away and think about some of the things they've

693
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: said then come back to you, you need to respect

694
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 1: that too. You might need to do that as well,

695
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: Like you might feel a little bit confused us. Obviously.

696
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: I know I said like keep like you may have

697
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: to come back, or that you should keep pushing the conversation,

698
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: But it's also fair to be like, no, I need

699
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: more time to think about it. What I'm really saying

700
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: is like, don't just get to this point and be

701
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: like cool, we've done it, we've done the hard thing,

702
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,399
Speaker 1: We've done the situation, we've talked, let's move on, and

703
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: like you're still hurt or they're still hurt, Like, don't again.

704
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: I think what this is what it all comes down to,

705
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: the easiest situation is often not the best situation for

706
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: the longeviedy of your friendship. So if it's not fine,

707
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: if you are still struggling, if you if they clearly

708
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: haven't moved on, like it's okay to come back. I

709
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: also think in the days after you have a conversation,

710
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna feel a little bit raw. Things may have

711
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: been said that you're like, oh, like I really had

712
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: to like confront some things about myself. Just take some

713
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: time to breathe. Like, you don't have to text them

714
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,439
Speaker 1: straight afterwards. You don't have to like immediately jump back

715
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: into how you were before. But definitely like leave the

716
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: door open and definitely like if you said that you'd

717
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 1: reach out and you would make plans do it. If

718
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: they asked the changes to behavior or they asked for

719
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: you to tell them what you needed, tell them, show them.

720
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: If you still have more thoughts, obviously tell them again.

721
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: This is the final snag for our friendship full outs.

722
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: We get so far, so far, so far, We jump

723
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: over all the hurdles, we jump over other people's opinions,

724
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: we jump over how freakin' awkward it is sometimes to

725
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: just like talk about things that sting our ego and

726
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: then hear the ego comes in again and swoops in

727
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: at the last moment and like prevents us from actually

728
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: changing anything or decides that it's too hard. So I

729
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: think when you get to that point, really be like, okay,

730
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 1: if it keeps going this way, Like am I going

731
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: to be happy if it just goes back to what

732
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: it was before? Like what actually needs to change? Because

733
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 1: you don't want to be here again in six months

734
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: time having the same conversation, or you don't want to

735
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: have had this conversation for nothing because neither of the

736
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: things that either of you said actually got through. And

737
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: you know what, I think, ninety percent of the time,

738
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 1: I think it's fine. Like I do think it does

739
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: get better without needing the follow up. And most people

740
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: are susceptible to change, and most people you included probably

741
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: just need a twenty minute chat to clear the air.

742
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: I also think for long term friendships, like eventually these

743
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: conversations become funny or they become sentimental, you know, they

744
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: become iconic in a weird way, like the fight that

745
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 1: nearly ended things, the disagreement that felt significant at the time,

746
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: and we made it through. And in many cases, that

747
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 1: is a bonding thing. Like I wish we saw fighting

748
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: with our friends as a bonding exercise. When you're arguing,

749
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: even when you're disagreeing, it's still a valuable shared experience,

750
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: and that's like the whole basis of friendship. Anyways. A

751
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: hell I will die on is that you don't truly

752
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: know your friend until you've had a fight with them

753
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: and you've gotten through it. It's like the thing that

754
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: opens up like a whole new depth of like communication

755
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: and shared values and resilience. And like it's gonna sound corny,

756
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: like love, it makes you love your friends more. Obviously

757
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: you love each other like you both collectively wanted to

758
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: make it through this, And that's like really reaffirming because

759
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: you don't do that for every friendship. Some people don't

760
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 1: even do that for like relationships they've been in for years.

761
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: And I think that is a sign of dedication. And

762
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: I think if you guys are able to make it

763
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: through this, You're gonna look back and both of you

764
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: are going to be like, Wow, that person really loves me.

765
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: And there's I also think it says his precedent where

766
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: a lot of friendships operate this like are you mad

767
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: at me? Are you not mad at me? And they

768
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: never actually ask, and there's a lot of anxiety and

769
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: tension in that. You guys won't have that again, Like

770
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: you will have the freedom now having done this, having

771
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: practiced this, so that like meaning that any future conflict

772
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: or disagreement or miscommunication will be handled in like a

773
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: similar way and will be handled like appropriately, because now

774
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: you have the blueprint for like how you're going to

775
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: go about these conversations. So I think that's really like

776
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: the beginnings of how you repair a friendship. Obviously I

777
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: can't talk to your specific situation about like what maybe

778
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: does need to change in your friendship, but I think

779
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: if you leave a conversation like this being like this

780
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: is what needs to change, you're both clear on it,

781
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: and you kind of have a check in, either individually

782
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: or collectively like a couple months down the line, or

783
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 1: you can kind of do that on your own and

784
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, everything's good or everything's bad, but I

785
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: kind of give it a chance or I want to

786
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: give it another chance, like you are on the right path.

787
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: Like I said, obviously just speaking from personal experience and

788
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: other people's experience as well, because I don't know. Sometimes

789
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: I don't fully know if my experience is everybody's. But

790
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: I think ninety percent of the time, a friendship is

791
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: not destroyed by a hard conversation. A friendship is actually

792
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: strengthened by a hard conversation. And like I just said,

793
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: you are doing a service to this other person. You

794
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: are doing a service to the strength of your bond

795
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: by saying that wasn't okay. I'm not okay. This whole

796
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: situation isn't okay. And I love you enough that I

797
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: want I want to say something, and I love you

798
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: enough that I want to be honest with you and

799
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: you be honest with me, and we're gonna work through it.

800
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: And I think that intention and that motivation is like

801
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: the biggest indicator that the friendship that you have with

802
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: this person is worth repairing, especially when it's reciprocated. So

803
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: I think that's all I have time for. When it

804
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 1: comes to this episode, I will say I'm going through

805
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: like kind of a situation like this at the moment,

806
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: and I need to take my own advice. I think

807
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: half the reason why I made this episode was because

808
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: I just kind of need to I don't know, I

809
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: need to woman up. I need to get some strength

810
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: in me and approach a situation that was like that's

811
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: just become very complex, and sometimes when you lay it

812
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: out like this, it just makes a lot more sense

813
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: and there is a reassurance there that, like, it is

814
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 1: going to be okay. And I spoke to so many

815
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: of my other friends and like even some like relationship

816
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: experts for this episode who were like, the biggest predictor

817
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: of success in a relationship, in a friendship, in families

818
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: is how people manage conflict. And again this sign that

819
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: if you are willing to the relationship most of the

820
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: time does survive. So that's the kickup the butt that

821
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: I need, hopefully, and it's helpful to you as well.

822
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 1: I want to thank our researcher Lucy Davidson for helping

823
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 1: us with this episode. If you have made it this

824
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: far you're listening on Spotify, Hello, Hi, thank you for

825
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 1: being a loyal listener and making it to the end.

826
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 1: Leave a little emoji down below, leave the little friendship emoji,

827
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: the little dancing girl emoji. So I know you have

828
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: made it this far and you are part of the

829
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 1: Elique club of like five percent of people who make

830
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: it to the boring stuff at the end, where I

831
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: talk about how you can follow us on Instagram and

832
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: how you can watch us on Netflix, and how you

833
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: can read transcripts of the episodes on substack. Substack especially,

834
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: I feel like is really helpful for this episode. If

835
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: you want to save this guide for the future, if

836
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,439
Speaker 1: you want to send it to somebody, or you're somebody

837
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: who processes this stuff over and over again through reading.

838
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: It's all going to be in the description. But I

839
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: just hope it's helpful. I hope it takes the stress

840
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:46,959
Speaker 1: and anxiety out of what I'm sure is a very

841
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: stressful and anxious situation. I know you can do it,

842
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: and I'm wishing you luck. But until next time, be safe,

843
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: be kind, be gentle with yourself. We will talk very

844
00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: very soon.