WEBVTT - The Science of Our Inner Voice 0:00:14.916 --> 0:00:29.476 Pushkin. Just last night, we were at the dinner table 0:00:29.636 --> 0:00:33.036 and one of my two daughters was telling me about 0:00:33.396 --> 0:00:37.676 a problem that she experienced with another person at school. 0:00:38.076 --> 0:00:41.116 It was really bugging her the way this other student 0:00:41.316 --> 0:00:46.876 behaved towards her, and she kept on going over the problem, 0:00:46.876 --> 0:00:52.476 repeating it seventeen thousand different ways, and she wasn't making 0:00:52.516 --> 0:00:55.356 any progress towards actually finding a way to think about 0:00:55.356 --> 0:00:57.796 this thing that would make her feel better, and instead 0:00:58.156 --> 0:01:01.556 it just kept all of those negative feelings alive. That's 0:01:01.556 --> 0:01:04.396 what I call chatter. You keep on trying to think 0:01:04.436 --> 0:01:07.636 and work through the problem, but you don't make any progress. 0:01:08.556 --> 0:01:11.436 Ethan Us is a professor of psychology at the University 0:01:11.436 --> 0:01:14.516 of Michigan, and he wrote the book Chatter, The Voice 0:01:14.516 --> 0:01:17.076 in Our Heads, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It. 0:01:18.036 --> 0:01:21.196 Ethan's an expert on the science of introspection, and his 0:01:21.316 --> 0:01:24.796 research focuses on those moments when our inner voice turns negative, 0:01:25.316 --> 0:01:27.476 and he gives us strategies for how to tame it 0:01:27.596 --> 0:01:29.996 when it does. One of the things we know about 0:01:30.076 --> 0:01:32.676 chatter is it zooms us in on our problems. We 0:01:32.716 --> 0:01:37.116 get stuck thinking in a very narrow way about only 0:01:37.196 --> 0:01:40.836 this issue right, we're not thinking about the bigger picture. 0:01:40.916 --> 0:01:44.396 Are alternative ways of making sense of that circumstance, And 0:01:44.436 --> 0:01:48.636 what we've learned over the years is that being able 0:01:48.676 --> 0:01:51.276 to step back, just take a little step back in 0:01:51.356 --> 0:01:54.796 your mind, get some psychological distance from your problems, can 0:01:54.836 --> 0:01:58.796 be really useful for broadening our perspective and helping us 0:01:58.836 --> 0:02:04.556 work through the situation more objectively. On today's episode, how 0:02:04.596 --> 0:02:07.236 to Control our Inner Voice to help us live happier, 0:02:07.316 --> 0:02:13.796 healthier lives, I'm Maya Shunker and this is a slight 0:02:13.876 --> 0:02:16.556 change of plans, a show about who we are and 0:02:16.596 --> 0:02:20.036 who we become in the face of a big change. 0:02:22.636 --> 0:02:25.796 We're all familiar with our inner voice. It's that running 0:02:25.836 --> 0:02:29.036 monologue in our heads that sometimes serves us well and 0:02:29.116 --> 0:02:32.676 at other times, was the case with Ethan's daughter, totally 0:02:32.756 --> 0:02:35.956 drives us nuts, and when it does, it can really 0:02:35.996 --> 0:02:40.076 affect our well being. The good news science shows we 0:02:40.196 --> 0:02:42.676 can change the way we engage with our inner voice, 0:02:43.116 --> 0:02:46.476 and Ethan is here to help. But before we dive 0:02:46.476 --> 0:02:48.836 into all that, I asked Ethan to give us an 0:02:48.836 --> 0:02:53.156 overview of the positive aspects of this uniquely human ability. 0:02:53.756 --> 0:02:56.716 I like to think about this inner voice as a 0:02:56.796 --> 0:03:00.076 kind of Swiss army knife of the human mind that 0:03:00.196 --> 0:03:03.996 lets us achieve a number of important things. So at 0:03:04.076 --> 0:03:07.516 the most basic end of the spectrum, your inner voice 0:03:07.796 --> 0:03:09.876 lets you just keep information active in your heads. This 0:03:09.956 --> 0:03:12.396 may not be the most glamorous feature of it, but 0:03:12.676 --> 0:03:16.316 my oh my, is it an important one. So if 0:03:16.356 --> 0:03:19.636 you go to the grocery store, for example, and you're 0:03:19.716 --> 0:03:22.356 like me, you know, my wife tells me what we need, 0:03:22.396 --> 0:03:25.316 and thirty seconds later I forget what those things are. 0:03:25.516 --> 0:03:27.916 I'm walking down the groceryil. Then I'm thinking to myself 0:03:28.196 --> 0:03:30.236 what do I have to order? And I go over 0:03:30.236 --> 0:03:35.756 the list in my head Cheese, granola, fruit. I'm using 0:03:35.796 --> 0:03:39.436 words silently to repeat those items. It's part of our 0:03:39.556 --> 0:03:43.716 working memory system, basic system of the human mind that 0:03:44.036 --> 0:03:47.756 is fundamental to our ability to navigate the world. So 0:03:47.756 --> 0:03:49.476 you're in a voice lets you do that, but then 0:03:49.476 --> 0:03:53.956 it lets you do lots of other arguably, I don't know, 0:03:54.196 --> 0:03:59.596 sexier things like like tell stories. Right, So we experienced 0:03:59.596 --> 0:04:03.596 adversity in our lives. Oh my god, my paper was rejected, 0:04:03.876 --> 0:04:07.596 My my, My kid didn't do well on the soccer field. 0:04:08.596 --> 0:04:11.076 I didn't have a great conversation with a colleague yesterday. 0:04:11.116 --> 0:04:14.636 When that happens, we turn our attention inward to make 0:04:14.716 --> 0:04:17.316 sense of what happen to us, and we use our 0:04:17.356 --> 0:04:23.596 inner voice to create those stories. That's a really important capacity. Yeah. 0:04:23.676 --> 0:04:25.516 I love another one you mentioned in your book, which 0:04:25.556 --> 0:04:28.716 is that our inability to escape our minds is also 0:04:28.756 --> 0:04:32.676 a driver of human ingenuity. It's like the fact that 0:04:32.716 --> 0:04:36.276 we can't escape our minds is giving us this fertile 0:04:36.316 --> 0:04:39.516 soil for creative ideas to come into existence, right, I 0:04:39.516 --> 0:04:41.716 mean those the thoughts you have in the shower and 0:04:41.716 --> 0:04:43.756 you're taking a walk and you don't even notice it, 0:04:43.796 --> 0:04:45.436 but your mind is drifting off and then all of 0:04:45.476 --> 0:04:48.996 a sudden you come up with a new idea. Yeah, totally. 0:04:49.036 --> 0:04:51.676 I mean I think this is the source of human innovation, 0:04:51.836 --> 0:04:54.476 which is why I think we actually want to give 0:04:54.516 --> 0:05:00.796 ourselves latitude to let our introspective capacities run wild. So, 0:05:01.476 --> 0:05:04.396 you know, it's interesting. There's some research which suggests that 0:05:04.556 --> 0:05:07.956 we spend between one half and one third of our 0:05:07.996 --> 0:05:12.596 waking hours not focused on the present, and sometimes those 0:05:12.676 --> 0:05:16.236 data are used to suggest that there's a huge problem, right, 0:05:16.276 --> 0:05:19.476 because we should always be in the present, but this 0:05:19.676 --> 0:05:23.596 ability to travel in time in our minds, so to 0:05:23.636 --> 0:05:25.676 turn our attention and where to think about our past 0:05:25.756 --> 0:05:29.516 and anticipate the future. This lets us do a number 0:05:29.556 --> 0:05:33.276 of remarkable things. Yeah, so let's dig in right to 0:05:33.916 --> 0:05:36.996 this live in the present more mantra. Right, that is 0:05:37.116 --> 0:05:39.836 very much in the zeitgeist. I want to hear what 0:05:39.876 --> 0:05:42.356 your reaction is to this, because it strikes me that 0:05:42.396 --> 0:05:47.076 we are we are forgetting the benefits of allowing our 0:05:47.116 --> 0:05:50.996 minds to wander. And my personal view is that we 0:05:51.036 --> 0:05:54.396 are failing to appreciate how remarkable it is that we 0:05:54.436 --> 0:05:56.836 even have this ability in the first place. So just 0:05:57.076 --> 0:06:01.476 a personal anecdote is I remember my good friend from college, Dane. 0:06:01.516 --> 0:06:04.796 He got onto the Mindfulness Meditation Present mind Inness train 0:06:05.436 --> 0:06:09.356 and he got really enamored with this particular spiritual grew. 0:06:10.676 --> 0:06:13.236 I remember Dane telling me, oh, yeah, Maya like you 0:06:14.036 --> 0:06:15.716 gotta stay more in the present, And he sends me 0:06:15.756 --> 0:06:18.596 a video of this grew and the Grew's going on 0:06:18.636 --> 0:06:21.476 and on about the importance of staying in the present, 0:06:21.636 --> 0:06:23.396 and then at one point he calls out a member 0:06:23.436 --> 0:06:25.196 of the audience and he kind of gives like him 0:06:25.196 --> 0:06:27.276 a stern lecture and he's like, what have you found 0:06:27.276 --> 0:06:29.556 yourself thinking about and the guy's like, well, actually, I 0:06:29.636 --> 0:06:32.516 was kind of imagining that I was going to go 0:06:32.556 --> 0:06:34.276 to lunch after this, and I was kind of imagining 0:06:34.276 --> 0:06:36.396 what I was going to order at the restaurant and 0:06:36.876 --> 0:06:38.996 what it was going to taste like. And you know, 0:06:39.036 --> 0:06:41.916 he gets the audience member gets scolded by the grew 0:06:41.996 --> 0:06:46.476 for having these thoughts, and I'm thinking to myself, first 0:06:46.516 --> 0:06:49.636 of all, this Grew's very boring to me. So it's 0:06:49.676 --> 0:06:52.476 wonderful that this audience member had an escape route from 0:06:52.476 --> 0:06:56.516 the lecture that was happening. But two, it's amazing that 0:06:56.596 --> 0:07:00.076 we have this faculty that allows us at times to 0:07:00.356 --> 0:07:05.156 escape our present environment and think about other things, to daydream, 0:07:05.196 --> 0:07:08.276 to think about the future, to anticipate things like that 0:07:08.436 --> 0:07:11.676 is a rich part of the human experience that I 0:07:11.756 --> 0:07:14.836 don't want to be lost on people. And so I think, 0:07:14.876 --> 0:07:18.716 I think reframing our relationship with our inner monologue chatter 0:07:19.276 --> 0:07:22.076 it can be in the long term a productive way 0:07:22.076 --> 0:07:24.836 of actually solving some of the challenges that accompany the 0:07:24.876 --> 0:07:28.476 inner voice. Yeah, I totally agree. You know, I use 0:07:28.516 --> 0:07:33.916 the title Harness our Inner Voice for the title for 0:07:33.956 --> 0:07:36.236 the book. The subtitle I didn't I didn't say silence, 0:07:36.676 --> 0:07:41.036 and that was a very strategic decision. A lot of 0:07:41.076 --> 0:07:44.356 people that I speak to when we're talking about, you know, 0:07:44.516 --> 0:07:47.356 the inner voice, run a muck, which is essentially chatter 0:07:47.396 --> 0:07:49.196 when you're getting stuck in those thought loops that you 0:07:49.276 --> 0:07:51.996 can't escape, and they are, for lack of a better term, 0:07:52.076 --> 0:07:57.116 driving you nuts. Right. They're so oppressive and stifling and 0:07:57.636 --> 0:08:02.756 really not fun. So many people ask me, Okay, what 0:08:02.836 --> 0:08:04.716 can I do to get rid of it? I just 0:08:04.756 --> 0:08:06.956 want to shut it up. I don't. I don't want 0:08:06.956 --> 0:08:08.876 to have an inner voice, and I there's a story 0:08:09.116 --> 0:08:10.956 telling the book. It's one of my favorite stories. It's 0:08:10.996 --> 0:08:13.956 of a woman named Jill Bolt Taylor who was a 0:08:14.596 --> 0:08:17.756 Harvard neuroanatomist working at the very top of her game, 0:08:18.476 --> 0:08:22.236 and like so many of us, she experienced chatter from 0:08:22.276 --> 0:08:25.236 time to time, and she thought this same thing to herself. 0:08:25.276 --> 0:08:28.036 She would ask, how can I silence this in her voice? 0:08:28.676 --> 0:08:32.556 And she got an answer to that question one morning 0:08:32.596 --> 0:08:35.916 when she was exercising on a chreadmill, because she suffered 0:08:35.916 --> 0:08:40.636 a stroke that temporarily wiped out her ability to use 0:08:40.716 --> 0:08:43.796 language not only to communicate with other people, but also 0:08:44.076 --> 0:08:50.636 with herselves and Initially, she described this experiences wait for it, strangely, 0:08:50.916 --> 0:08:55.076 you fork, Now, that's remarkable to me. Right, She's just 0:08:55.196 --> 0:08:58.796 had a massive stroke. It's targeted language centers in her brain. 0:08:58.996 --> 0:09:01.796 She cannot speak to other people or to herself. And 0:09:02.116 --> 0:09:07.236 what's the emotion relief because all the chatter is gone, 0:09:07.396 --> 0:09:10.436 all that chatter that was weighing her down. But as 0:09:10.476 --> 0:09:14.156 the days and weeks went on, she began to describe 0:09:14.156 --> 0:09:19.156 this this experience as quite debilitating because although the chatter 0:09:19.316 --> 0:09:22.116 is gone, so were all of the good things that 0:09:22.196 --> 0:09:24.676 her inner voice allowed her to do, like plan for 0:09:24.716 --> 0:09:27.956 the future and control ourselves and create stories and keep 0:09:28.036 --> 0:09:30.316 things in mind and so and improves as a person, 0:09:30.356 --> 0:09:33.436 by the way, like the negative chatter is productive, it's 0:09:33.556 --> 0:09:36.796 very helpful. It's data to ourselves about how we can 0:09:36.836 --> 0:09:39.716 become better people, all right, and take feedback in and 0:09:40.076 --> 0:09:42.876 work at things that touches on another I think are 0:09:42.956 --> 0:09:48.156 important reframe for listeners, which is we often strive to 0:09:49.156 --> 0:09:53.116 lead lives free of negative emotions, but in fact, all 0:09:53.196 --> 0:09:57.836 emotions are useful when experienced in small doses. When I 0:09:57.876 --> 0:10:01.476 experienced a small ping of anxiety before a big presentation, 0:10:01.996 --> 0:10:05.116 that's really really a useful response, because what it does 0:10:05.236 --> 0:10:08.876 is it says, hey, you know, start preparing and don't 0:10:08.916 --> 0:10:11.236 just walk in there and think you could wing it. 0:10:12.116 --> 0:10:14.396 There have been a few occasions where I haven't experienced 0:10:14.516 --> 0:10:19.556 any emotion before presentation. Those presentations actually didn't turn out 0:10:19.556 --> 0:10:21.116 as well as the ones that I was a little 0:10:21.116 --> 0:10:23.356 bit on edge four. And the same is true for 0:10:23.516 --> 0:10:26.996 all the negative emotions we experience. What makes them useful 0:10:27.556 --> 0:10:29.996 is that they are painful. They do draw our attention 0:10:30.076 --> 0:10:32.996 in you just don't want to bathe in them endlessly. 0:10:33.396 --> 0:10:37.516 That's when they become counterproductive. Yeah, So with that in mind, 0:10:37.556 --> 0:10:40.996 let's get into the kind of the darker sides of 0:10:41.036 --> 0:10:44.156 this ability. As we've discussed, so much of our lived 0:10:44.196 --> 0:10:47.196 experience is the thoughts that are happening in our heads, 0:10:47.516 --> 0:10:51.436 and so it's important for us to learn how to 0:10:51.476 --> 0:10:54.436 better manage those thoughts, right, to better manage that monologue. 0:10:54.796 --> 0:10:59.236 And this is especially true because another thing you point 0:10:59.276 --> 0:11:01.636 out in your book is that our inner voice is 0:11:02.276 --> 0:11:05.196 more predictive of our happiness than what we're actually doing. 0:11:05.636 --> 0:11:07.916 And man, is this going to be salient for so 0:11:07.916 --> 0:11:11.156 many people who are listening, Like I'm on the luxury 0:11:11.236 --> 0:11:12.956 vacation I'm on the beach. I'm supposed to be having 0:11:12.996 --> 0:11:14.556 the time of my life, and yet I'm anxious about 0:11:14.596 --> 0:11:16.436 something that's happening back home, and my mind is not 0:11:16.476 --> 0:11:19.836 even present and fully sabotages what's otherwise supposed to be 0:11:19.876 --> 0:11:25.516 a great experience. When does our inner voice become harmful 0:11:25.676 --> 0:11:29.836 and transform into what you call chatter? So it becomes 0:11:29.836 --> 0:11:36.236 harmful when we experience something in our life that accuse 0:11:36.396 --> 0:11:38.916 us to try to use this tool that we have 0:11:39.076 --> 0:11:42.516 to make sense of our feelings, but the tool gets 0:11:42.556 --> 0:11:45.436 jammed up, so something bad happens. We turn our attention 0:11:45.436 --> 0:11:47.036 in where to try to make sense of the problem, 0:11:47.116 --> 0:11:49.636 but we get stuck in a negative thought loop. That's 0:11:49.676 --> 0:11:52.516 what I call chatter. You keep on trying to think 0:11:52.556 --> 0:11:55.676 and work through the problem, but you don't make any progress. 0:11:55.996 --> 0:11:58.956 And there are lots of different terms that scientists have 0:11:59.076 --> 0:12:03.276 used to describe this state. If it's chatter about the past, 0:12:03.396 --> 0:12:05.756 we tend to call that ruminating. If it's about the 0:12:05.836 --> 0:12:09.916 future or present, we call that worrying. Sometimes we call 0:12:09.956 --> 0:12:14.996 it perseverating. But the common idea here is you're trying 0:12:15.036 --> 0:12:18.196 to make sense of a problem with language, but you're 0:12:18.236 --> 0:12:21.876 not making any forward progress. It's kind of like the 0:12:21.996 --> 0:12:25.036 visual is one of a hamster on an exercise wheel. 0:12:26.796 --> 0:12:29.476 We fall prey to this illusion when we were actively 0:12:29.796 --> 0:12:32.716 repeating those loops in our mind, that we are actually 0:12:32.756 --> 0:12:38.036 making progress because just merely indulging in that topic, right, 0:12:38.076 --> 0:12:41.276 like staying in that space. I think it fools our 0:12:41.316 --> 0:12:46.116 brains into thinking I am in fact advancing because look 0:12:46.156 --> 0:12:48.556 at how much airtime this topic is getting in my mind. 0:12:48.676 --> 0:12:52.516 And then only maybe hours later, do you realize, oh crap, 0:12:52.556 --> 0:12:55.036 I'm in exactly the same position that I was in 0:12:55.076 --> 0:12:57.756 at the beginning. But I've been seduced by that this 0:12:57.876 --> 0:12:59.676 feeling of oh, you know, I'm gonna be real resolved 0:12:59.716 --> 0:13:01.396 if I just kind of keep it marinating in there. 0:13:01.436 --> 0:13:04.916 And then without really sophisticated strategies like from cognitive behavioral 0:13:04.956 --> 0:13:09.916 therapy and whatnot, you know, oftentimes it's not that productive. Well, 0:13:09.956 --> 0:13:13.836 and think about how much experience you have succeeding in 0:13:13.876 --> 0:13:16.236 the usage of this tool. Like most of the time, 0:13:16.796 --> 0:13:20.556 this tool, this ability to use language to think analytically 0:13:20.556 --> 0:13:24.196 about a problem, it serves you really really will. I mean, 0:13:24.196 --> 0:13:27.716 this is undoubtedly why you have been able to achieve 0:13:27.756 --> 0:13:30.716 the things that you have accomplished in your life, and 0:13:30.996 --> 0:13:32.836 the same is true for so many other people. So 0:13:33.436 --> 0:13:37.516 you've got this tool that often works, really really should 0:13:37.556 --> 0:13:41.596 work here it's not working. I'm a I don't give up. 0:13:41.876 --> 0:13:44.116 I'm going to keep going. And so that's when you 0:13:44.156 --> 0:13:47.076 really need this ability to step back, if you will, 0:13:47.596 --> 0:13:52.956 and just recognize weight this approach isn't working. Let me 0:13:52.956 --> 0:13:55.836 shift perspective or do any number of other things to 0:13:55.916 --> 0:13:59.396 help reconcile the situation. So you know, it's something that 0:13:59.436 --> 0:14:02.596 we all fall victim too at times. Yeah, can you 0:14:02.636 --> 0:14:06.276 say more about how that inner monologue can lead us 0:14:06.276 --> 0:14:10.196 astray in these moments or what the negative consequences can be? Yeah, 0:14:10.276 --> 0:14:13.676 happy too. So when the inner voice morphs into chatter, 0:14:13.956 --> 0:14:17.276 it sinks us in three domains of life that I 0:14:17.276 --> 0:14:20.156 think are three domains that we care a lot about 0:14:20.236 --> 0:14:22.636 and really make life worth living. And that's why I 0:14:22.636 --> 0:14:26.796 think it's such a huge problem. First, chatter consumes our 0:14:26.836 --> 0:14:29.716 attention to the point where we have very little left 0:14:29.796 --> 0:14:32.636 over to focus on other things. And so the example 0:14:32.676 --> 0:14:35.396 I like to give people is to think about a 0:14:35.436 --> 0:14:37.676 time when you're worried about something, you're ruminating, and you 0:14:37.716 --> 0:14:39.156 sit down, you try to read a couple of pages 0:14:39.156 --> 0:14:41.876 in a book or a magazine, and you read the pages, 0:14:41.916 --> 0:14:45.556 you are sure, like under oath, you would swear that 0:14:45.636 --> 0:14:48.756 the information has past your gaze, but you don't remember 0:14:48.916 --> 0:14:52.676 anything that you have read. It is an incredibly common experience, 0:14:52.676 --> 0:14:56.036 and the idea is very, very simple. We only have 0:14:56.076 --> 0:14:59.116 so much attention. If all of it is being consumed 0:14:59.116 --> 0:15:01.556 by your chatter, that means not much is left over 0:15:01.636 --> 0:15:04.876 to do your job. Not a good thing. We also 0:15:04.956 --> 0:15:08.676 know that chatter can undo our habits, and the way 0:15:08.716 --> 0:15:12.676 this work is like what is a habit? A habit 0:15:12.756 --> 0:15:16.916 is a complex set of behaviors that are strung together 0:15:16.996 --> 0:15:20.236 through repeated practice. So when I get up on stage 0:15:20.276 --> 0:15:23.396 to give a presentation, I've given hundreds and hundreds of talks. 0:15:24.116 --> 0:15:26.596 I've learned to do things without thinking, like to move 0:15:26.636 --> 0:15:29.436 my hands in particular ways and vary my vocal tone, 0:15:29.556 --> 0:15:32.676 and smile and look at different people in the audience. 0:15:33.316 --> 0:15:37.116 If I start to worry about what I'm doing, oh 0:15:37.116 --> 0:15:40.156 my god, am I giving a good presentation? What happens 0:15:40.276 --> 0:15:43.716 is I zoom in on all the individual behaviors. Am 0:15:43.756 --> 0:15:47.076 I smiling enough? Yeah? Am I using the stage appropriate? 0:15:47.316 --> 0:15:51.516 And once you start doing that the whole script explodes, 0:15:51.556 --> 0:15:53.436 the behavior explodes, and you don't do do well. And 0:15:53.836 --> 0:15:57.076 we saw this happen on the grandest stage in the Olympics, 0:15:57.116 --> 0:16:00.276 when Simone Biles dropped out because of what she called 0:16:00.316 --> 0:16:04.436 the twisties. The twisties are another name for chatter, sometimes 0:16:04.476 --> 0:16:09.596 are called the yips. And if you think about Simone's situation, 0:16:09.756 --> 0:16:14.556 I think it really highlights just how toxic this can be. 0:16:14.676 --> 0:16:19.476 Here you have someone who is on the peak. You know, 0:16:19.836 --> 0:16:22.516 she's at the peak of her career on the grandest stage, 0:16:22.636 --> 0:16:25.316 and she appropriate the best in human history as well, 0:16:25.476 --> 0:16:28.196 best in human history, and she has to drop out 0:16:28.276 --> 0:16:31.716 appropriately because it was dangerous. And so that's what chatter 0:16:31.796 --> 0:16:35.396 can do to us when it comes to our individual performance. 0:16:36.676 --> 0:16:38.956 If we shift to the second domain, we know that 0:16:39.076 --> 0:16:42.716 chatter undermines our relationships. That can create friction, and there 0:16:42.756 --> 0:16:45.436 are a couple of ways that works too. One thing 0:16:45.516 --> 0:16:48.676 that that chatter can do is it can push other 0:16:48.676 --> 0:16:51.156 people who care about us away. And here the ideas, 0:16:51.556 --> 0:16:55.436 you've got a problem and you're motivated to share it 0:16:55.476 --> 0:16:58.036 with other people for a variety of reasons. You want 0:16:58.036 --> 0:17:01.116 to get support. But what happens is you talk to 0:17:01.156 --> 0:17:03.596 the other person about the problem, and then you keep 0:17:03.636 --> 0:17:07.076 talking about it over and over and over again, and 0:17:07.476 --> 0:17:09.756 for most of us, is only so much we can 0:17:09.796 --> 0:17:14.556 listen to before we ourselves start to get brought down. 0:17:15.076 --> 0:17:17.596 And so that's one of the ways that that chatter 0:17:17.636 --> 0:17:20.236 can alienate us from others, lead us to feel socially 0:17:20.236 --> 0:17:25.956 rejected and alone. These are not healthy states. Boy, I'm 0:17:25.956 --> 0:17:28.916 getting I'm getting depressed just talking about this maya But 0:17:29.196 --> 0:17:31.836 let me quickly just mention the final domain, which is 0:17:31.836 --> 0:17:35.356 our physical health, that I think is really important to highlight. 0:17:36.636 --> 0:17:41.476 Many people think that experience stress like stress kills. This 0:17:41.516 --> 0:17:44.676 is a very popular idea. It turns out that is 0:17:44.756 --> 0:17:48.596 not exactly correct. What we know is that the ability 0:17:48.636 --> 0:17:55.316 to experience a stress response is an amazingly useful biological 0:17:55.716 --> 0:17:59.236 reaction to a confronting threat. It is really useful to 0:17:59.276 --> 0:18:02.356 know that if we see a threat in our world, 0:18:02.956 --> 0:18:05.956 we have a system that is designed to get us 0:18:05.956 --> 0:18:08.996 to approach or avoid it in a split second. What 0:18:09.196 --> 0:18:12.636 make stress toxic is when the stress response goes up 0:18:13.116 --> 0:18:17.556 and remains chronically elevated over time, over days, over weeks. 0:18:17.636 --> 0:18:21.036 That's what chatter does. Because we experience a threat in 0:18:21.076 --> 0:18:24.116 our world, and then we keep replaying it in our minds, 0:18:24.196 --> 0:18:27.516 sometimes even making it worse, and that keeps the whole 0:18:27.556 --> 0:18:31.676 stress machinery going in ways that lead stress to predict 0:18:31.756 --> 0:18:35.236 things like cardiovascular disease and certain forms of cancer and 0:18:35.316 --> 0:18:42.036 other unpleasant physical states to talk about. So thinking, performing relationships, 0:18:42.076 --> 0:18:45.756 health chatter wraps its tentacles around all of those domains, 0:18:45.756 --> 0:18:48.036 and it's why I think it's one of the big 0:18:48.036 --> 0:18:51.116 problems we face. I promise hope is on the way. 0:18:51.276 --> 0:18:54.596 Don't worry. When we return, Ethan will give us some 0:18:54.636 --> 0:18:57.836 science based strategies to help us harness our inner voice. 0:18:58.916 --> 0:19:08.676 We'll be right back with a slight change of plans. Okay, 0:19:08.756 --> 0:19:12.956 so we need some hope, Ethan. You've got to help 0:19:12.996 --> 0:19:14.996 us out here, all right. I'd love to do a 0:19:14.996 --> 0:19:17.156 deep dive in some of the strategies we can use 0:19:17.236 --> 0:19:20.556 for better managing our chatter. Yeah, So, just to give 0:19:20.876 --> 0:19:23.756 give everyone a framework for thinking about these tools and 0:19:23.836 --> 0:19:27.276 also being hopeful for managing their chatter. I want to 0:19:27.316 --> 0:19:30.156 be super clear, there are lots and lots of tools 0:19:30.156 --> 0:19:33.076 that exist for managing our chatter, and so like when 0:19:33.116 --> 0:19:36.316 I think about the potential that is out there, there 0:19:36.396 --> 0:19:39.556 is a lot of it. So where do you find 0:19:39.596 --> 0:19:41.316 these tools you can You could think of them as 0:19:41.356 --> 0:19:44.676 falling into three different domains or buckets. Things you could 0:19:44.676 --> 0:19:48.316 do on your own, relationship tools ways of talking or 0:19:48.356 --> 0:19:50.276 interacting with other people that can be helpful, and then 0:19:50.676 --> 0:19:53.276 what I call environmental or physical tools out there in 0:19:53.276 --> 0:19:55.956 the world. If we start with the first category, things 0:19:55.956 --> 0:19:58.196 you could do on your own, one of the things 0:19:58.196 --> 0:20:00.596 we know about chatter is it zooms us in on 0:20:00.596 --> 0:20:04.196 our problems. We get stuck thinking in a very narrow 0:20:04.356 --> 0:20:08.916 way about only this issue, right, We're not thinking about 0:20:08.916 --> 0:20:11.556 the bigger picture, all alternative ways of making sense of 0:20:11.596 --> 0:20:15.836 that circumstance. And what we've learned over the years is 0:20:15.876 --> 0:20:19.556 that being able to step back, just take a little 0:20:19.596 --> 0:20:22.556 step back in your mind, get some psychological distance from 0:20:22.596 --> 0:20:26.316 your problems, can be really useful for broadening our perspective 0:20:26.756 --> 0:20:31.156 and helping us work through the situation more objectively. One 0:20:31.196 --> 0:20:37.596 of the findings that my colleagues and I found several 0:20:37.636 --> 0:20:39.756 years ago that I always come back to is this 0:20:40.836 --> 0:20:44.516 we are much much better at giving advice to other 0:20:44.516 --> 0:20:47.276 people than we are following our own advice. I find 0:20:47.316 --> 0:20:50.716 this really remarkable. You know a friend or a loved 0:20:50.716 --> 0:20:53.236 one who is struggling with the same problem that you 0:20:53.356 --> 0:20:57.316 might have experienced at some point when they come to them. Sorry, sorry, 0:20:57.356 --> 0:20:59.316 sorry interrupted. I just want to clarify because I think, 0:21:00.316 --> 0:21:02.996 is it about we're better at giving advice to other 0:21:02.996 --> 0:21:04.796 people than following our own, or we're better at giving 0:21:04.796 --> 0:21:09.716 advice to others than we are at giving advice to ourselves. Well, 0:21:10.276 --> 0:21:13.356 I would say giving advice to others, we're better doing 0:21:13.396 --> 0:21:17.676 that than following our own advice. Okay, because it also 0:21:17.716 --> 0:21:20.396 seems like we sometimes give ourselves bad advice as well 0:21:20.436 --> 0:21:23.276 when it's the first person thing, because emotions cloud our judgments. Well, 0:21:23.316 --> 0:21:26.076 you know that, I would say it's probably both actually, 0:21:26.356 --> 0:21:31.116 so we give better, we give ourselves often poorer advice, 0:21:31.356 --> 0:21:35.316 and we have trouble following the more effective pieces when 0:21:35.436 --> 0:21:38.156 we when we think about them. And it's a pretty 0:21:38.276 --> 0:21:42.196 pretty pervasive phenomenon. And what we've learned is that there 0:21:42.236 --> 0:21:46.716 are lots of different psychological tools people can use to 0:21:46.876 --> 0:21:49.116 shift their perspective and get them to think about their 0:21:49.156 --> 0:21:52.276 problems like they were weighing in on someone else's problems. 0:21:52.276 --> 0:21:55.796 And when you do that, you often find less chatter, 0:21:56.356 --> 0:22:00.636 more objective thinking. What we might even call wiser reasoning 0:22:00.796 --> 0:22:04.036 about about issues that we're facing. I'll tell you about 0:22:04.356 --> 0:22:07.676 two of my favorites, which also happen to be two 0:22:07.796 --> 0:22:11.476 tools that I use myself if I experience shadow. They're 0:22:11.516 --> 0:22:15.316 my first lines of defense. I love it. The first 0:22:15.316 --> 0:22:20.636 one is maybe counterintuitive to folks. What it involves doing 0:22:21.156 --> 0:22:25.316 is trying to coach yourself through a problem using your 0:22:25.316 --> 0:22:28.476 own name or the second person pronoun you. So, if 0:22:28.516 --> 0:22:33.916 I'm really upset about something and spinning alread ethan, here's 0:22:33.956 --> 0:22:35.396 what you're going to do. Here's how you're going to 0:22:35.396 --> 0:22:40.036 manage the situation. I'm basically talking to myself like I 0:22:40.076 --> 0:22:43.716 would speak to another person, right, the second person pronoun 0:22:43.716 --> 0:22:45.836 on you. This is a part of speech that we 0:22:45.956 --> 0:22:49.876 almost exclusively use when we think about and refer to 0:22:49.916 --> 0:22:53.636 other people. That shifts your perspective. It puts you into 0:22:53.676 --> 0:22:56.276 this different mode of thinking about your problems. It's like 0:22:56.276 --> 0:22:58.836 you're giving advice to your best friend, and when you're 0:22:58.916 --> 0:23:02.076 in that in that mode of advice giving, you come 0:23:02.156 --> 0:23:05.196 up with much better solutions to your problems. So that's 0:23:05.236 --> 0:23:08.716 a really simple thing that people can do to switch 0:23:08.716 --> 0:23:10.876 your factives. And that's the first thing that I'll do. 0:23:11.716 --> 0:23:14.876 Another distancing tool that is really easy and works for 0:23:14.956 --> 0:23:19.036 many situations is something that we call temporal distancing, or 0:23:19.796 --> 0:23:23.396 thinking about how you're going to feel about something that's 0:23:23.436 --> 0:23:25.156 causing you chatter right now? How are you going to 0:23:25.196 --> 0:23:28.076 feel about this a week from now, or a month 0:23:28.116 --> 0:23:30.356 from now, or a year from now. Right you could 0:23:30.396 --> 0:23:32.196 You could stretch out the time window as much as 0:23:32.236 --> 0:23:36.396 you want. What engaging in that in that little mental 0:23:36.436 --> 0:23:39.676 time travel exercise does for us is it often makes 0:23:39.716 --> 0:23:42.796