1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Hey there, Hi, there, ho there, and welcome to the 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: short stuff. I'm Josh, there's chalk, and Jerry's here, which 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: took up an extra couple of seconds mentioning Jerry. So 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: let's get to it because we just wasted some time. Yeah. So, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: if you remember about a year ago, dear listener, we 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: did a podcast, a little shorty on the Mona Lisa 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: and we talked kind of briefly about the fact that 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: Mona Lisa's eyes will follow you if you move about 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 1: the room like a horror movie painting, and that's the thing, 10 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: and we said, I think Josh even said, hey, you know, 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: I want to do a show on that. I like 12 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: a regular shorty on that. That was a great Josh impression. Hello, Love, 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: let's do one on that, right, Jimminy crickets Um, So 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: we did. This is what we're doing right now, Chuck. 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: That's right. The the the reason why which will come 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: later in the podcast, but the phenomenon of that we've 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: all seen on school be doing in horror movies of 18 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: moving around a room and the appearance that the eyeballs 19 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: of the painting are following you. Right, So there's actual 20 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: like this is actually a thing as anybody who's ever 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: seen it in real life knows um, but you may 22 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: not have ever understood why. And it turns out that 23 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: it's one of the easiest things in the world to understand, 24 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: one of the hardest things in the world to explain. 25 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: For some reason, I had a hard time to it 26 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: makes no sense whatsoever, because once you understand it, you're like, okay, yeah, 27 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: of course that makes total sense. But like I even 28 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: had to go back and add some to this article 29 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: that bro this is a Josh Clark jam from the 30 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: House Stuff Works staff writer days, and I had to 31 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: go back and and add something from like I think 32 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: some art site and another site about there was like 33 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: a forum among painters. There's this one painter's post saying 34 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: like I can't make the eyes look at the viewer. 35 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: Helped me and there, you know, some people kind of 36 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: swooped in and explained to this one pain or how 37 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: to do it. But it's actually very, very hard. But 38 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: the whole thing is based on um perspective, and you 39 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: would not have been able to make a painting with 40 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: eyes staring at the viewer um before the four century, 41 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: I believe, and thanks to an Italian architect named Philip. 42 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Chuck, you want to take this one. It's 43 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: about to say. I mean, I know I'm not sitting 44 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: in the room with you. But Filippo brunellesco very nice. 45 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: And he was an architect in Italy, like I said, 46 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: and he was um in charge of the Baptiste. Sorry, Chuck, 47 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: Baptista and Sanelin very nice. So um. He basically accidentally 48 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: figured out perspective. Linear perspective in particular, which is in 49 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: a painting where if you're looking at, say like a 50 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: painting of railroad tracks, Um, they vanish in the distance, 51 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: but if you'll notice they come together. The reason that 52 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: they seem very far off, and that the tracks closer 53 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: to to the wider part closer to you in the 54 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: tracks closer together further from you is because it's union 55 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: using linear perspective, which is just all lines in a 56 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: painting can trace their origin back to a common single point. 57 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: That's the that's the source of linear perspective. Yeah, and 58 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: it's one of the coolest things in art, the notion 59 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: that you can draw something on a flat canvas and 60 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: just have those points kind of come closer to each 61 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: other at the top, and it gives the impression of distance. 62 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: It's really really cool. It is very cool. So that's 63 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: one thing that that it's like you said, it gives 64 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: the impression of distance. And before linear perspective came along, 65 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: um artists had height and width and the only way 66 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: to make something seem further away is to draw it 67 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: smaller than the other thing. You want to seem closer together, 68 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: and the whole, the whole jam just seemed very flat. 69 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: Like if you think of hieroglyphics Egyptian um paintings on 70 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: walls of tombs, that's a good example of pre perspective 71 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: of art, right, very flat and two dimensional. Yeah, you 72 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: can also do some other things to create the illusion 73 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: of depth. Obviously, light and shadow. If you use light, 74 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: it will demonstrate something um surfaces closeness to the light 75 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: source and it's going to protrude out and then then 76 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: reflect more light. You're going to use that shadow and 77 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: the darker areas uh to denote something that's more closed off, 78 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: maybe something further away. You combine those two things and 79 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna have another illusion. That illusion of depth basically 80 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: sort of like a third dimension that's really not there exactly, 81 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: but for all intents and purposes. You have just figured 82 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: out how to add that third dimension, and it's like 83 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 1: you just said, that's really important. It's not actually there 84 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: using linear perspective, using the interplay of light and shadows 85 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: to to suggest depth. It's not their height and with 86 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: they're actually there. Those two dimensions are actually present in 87 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: the painting. But that third dimension of of depth also 88 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: known his length, that is nothing but an optical illusion. 89 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: But that optical illusion gives rise to another optical illusion, 90 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: the eyes and a painting following you around the room. 91 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: That's right, So we're gonna take a break and talk 92 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: how that actually works right after this. All right, So 93 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: before we get to how that actually works, we should 94 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: point out that what you mentioned earlier from that painter's 95 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: blog or threat or whatever, uh it is, it is 96 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: a tough thing to do as an artist to paint 97 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: eyes um on a human being that look like they're 98 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: looking at the person looking at the painting. It's a 99 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: hard thing to do. Yeah, like you are based to 100 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: clear a master of painting if you can do it 101 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: without really having to think about it. But it has 102 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: everything for years. Are you do you paint? Okay? I 103 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: can see that being like just something I didn't know that, 104 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: you just kind of did on the side. Um. So 105 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: if you ever want to try, apparently chuck from what 106 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: I could tell from this painter forum, we'll call it 107 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: paint chan um. They if you have the face looking 108 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: dead on like nine degrees from the canvas, um, it's 109 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: much easier to paint the eyes looking out that way. 110 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: It gets really hard when the head is tilted or 111 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: um uh yeah, tilted in one way or another away 112 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: from that nine degree axis. That's when it gets hard. 113 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: Now has everything to do with how much of the 114 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: white is shown, um, how much of the iris has 115 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: shown where it sits in the eye. That it's really 116 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: tough to capture unless the painting is looking or that 117 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,799 Speaker 1: the subject is looking straight out of the painting. Yeah. 118 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: So another thing we should understand before we move on 119 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: to how this little trick works with the eyes following 120 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: you is if you go, if you move yourself around 121 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: a statue, um, a sculpture, or if you move yourself 122 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: around a live human being and just tell them to 123 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: keep their eyes fixed forward and you move around them 124 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: and you keep your eyeballs on theirs, that that trick 125 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: is not gonna work. Their eyeballs are not going to 126 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: be following you around the room, nor would it appear 127 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: so from a sculpture, because you are changing your perspective. 128 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: Their perspective is saying the same, and you're actually you know, 129 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: when you round the corner, you go from seeing iris 130 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: to the whites of someone's eyes and then the back 131 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: of their head and then eventually back around again. And 132 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: not only that, you know you're seeing more iris or 133 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: less iris, or more right or less white. And this 134 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: is giving your brain visual cues about this third dimension, um, 135 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: but also the interplay of light and shadow on their face, 136 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: on their eyes wherever, also giving your brain que is 137 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: two and it's changing. Yes, this the statue your friend 138 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,679 Speaker 1: who's staring straightforward going like why am I doing this again? Um? 139 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: Those things exist in the actual three third, three dimensions. Um. 140 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: The painting itself again, that third dimension is nothing but 141 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: tricks of of technique. They don't actually exist in the 142 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: three dimensions. So when you paint eyes looking a certain way, 143 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: they're going to look that certain way no matter what 144 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: they're fixed, they're set. Your brain is not going to 145 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: get any more information moving around the room that you're 146 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: It's not going You're not going to see more white 147 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: or less white of the eyes. The irises aren't going 148 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: to um change position. They are fixed no matter where 149 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: you stand in relation to that painting. And as a result, 150 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: that's why the eyes following around, because if they're painted 151 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: gazing out of the painting to begin with, they're going 152 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: to seem that way no matter where you stand, they'll 153 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: the eyes will follow you around the room from the painting. 154 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: That's right. If a person on a painting is painted 155 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: to where they're looking not looking at you, they're looking 156 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: away from you, it's not going to allow that allusion 157 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: to take place. Um and to cap it off, it's 158 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: even hard to have that poem have that person meet 159 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: your gaze. Like let's say someone's painted, uh and they're 160 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: looking sort of off to the side. You can't just 161 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: walk off to the side to kind of where they 162 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: seem to be looking and lock eyes with them. There 163 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: is just this weird illusion of this sort of forever 164 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: into the distance gaze that happens. Yeah, which really like 165 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: re re researching this and I think admittedly fully understanding 166 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: it for the first time has really given me a 167 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: lot of um of more respect for the craft of 168 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: painting portraits than I had to for yeah, because I've 169 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: never been into portraiture that much, so for me to yeah, 170 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: I like a good rembrand. Yeah so, But but I 171 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: mean the idea that it's it's really hard to paint 172 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: the eyes a certain way. And then the fact that 173 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: when you are painting eyes one way or the other, 174 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: you're you're locking them in through tricks of perspective, using 175 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: shadow and light and all that. That's I mean, hats 176 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: off to all of you painters out there. Yeah. One 177 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: thing I truly did not understand was this experiment in 178 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: two thousand four from a group of researchers to try 179 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: and prove this using a mannequin and math. I read 180 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: this ten times and I have no idea what they mean. 181 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: So they didn't use an actual mannequin. They used an 182 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: image of a mannequin, so it's in two dimensions, but 183 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: they used they used, um, you know, perspective to to 184 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: make it seem like a three dimensional mannequin's Torso well, 185 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: that makes more sense. But then they plotted out the 186 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: different dots, so the dots that should seem further away 187 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: because the mannequin itself, that part of the mannequin was 188 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: further away. Um seemed further away no matter where you 189 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: stood in when you were viewing this image of the mannequin. 190 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: And they may just to basically capture this digitally to 191 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: prove once and for all, this isn't The eyes following 192 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: you in a painting aren't a trick like it actually 193 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: is the way that that you're perceiving it, they do 194 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: seem to be following you around the room. It's not 195 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: like you're going nuts amazing, it really is. So now 196 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: everybody knows the eyes in a painting follow you around, 197 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: because if they're painted looking that way, you're not going 198 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: to get any other visual cues suggesting that they're looking 199 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: any other direction than that way. I think we've explained 200 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: to Chuck thinks, And since Chuck breathlessly said, I think so, 201 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: that means short stuff is apt. Stuff you should know 202 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: is production of iHeart Radios. How stuff works. For more 203 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 204 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.