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Speaker 1: This is a production of Journalista Podcast LLC and iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Journalista Podcast. Well, the smoking gun

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Speaker 1: everyone's been looking for has just been shot down by

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Speaker 1: a shoulder mounted missile, and every journalist in the Western

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Speaker 1: hemisphere is after that story. So let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: biggest story of the eighties, the one that sort of

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Speaker 1: defines your career.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would have to say it was the Hasenfu story.

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Speaker 2: For those that don't know the background, we'd been covering

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Speaker 2: this war for a decade maybe less, the Sandinistas always

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Speaker 2: maintaining that it was the US financing the contras that

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Speaker 2: were attacking Nicaragua and the Sandinistas and the civilians and

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Speaker 2: everybody there, but there had never been any concrete proof.

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Speaker 1: So for you guys, the journalists on the ground, everybody

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Speaker 1: knows this is happening, they just can't prove it.

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Speaker 2: We all know, just like the Sandinistas know, just like

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Speaker 2: everybody knows, that the US is involved, but there was

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Speaker 2: never any concrete proof.

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Speaker 1: So the worst kept secret in Nicaragua, worst kept secret.

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Speaker 2: But also all the journalists and of course all the

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Speaker 2: Sandinistas wanted to get this proof to say, hey, we

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Speaker 2: told you so one day I'm in Miami vacation, took

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Speaker 2: my son Chico. I'm on vacation, but I'm still hanging

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Speaker 2: out at the CBS bureau. It's like we can't get

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Speaker 2: away from it, you know. So I believe it was

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Speaker 2: a Thursday. I'm not sure Wednesday or Thursday. I get

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Speaker 2: a call from someone in nicarag was saying, have you heard.

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Speaker 1: That someone was Cookie's assistant Alejandro Belly aka Chilean.

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Speaker 3: The day that Casimphus came down, I was in the office.

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Speaker 4: Cookie wasn't.

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Speaker 3: I got the phone call, and we were the first

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Speaker 3: service that got the phone call. It was the Ministry

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Speaker 3: of Defense and the Army.

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Speaker 4: We knew very well.

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Speaker 3: Rosa Plastos, who was in chargeable doing relationes Pulicas de

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Speaker 3: l Hersito. Her office would call in asking for Cookie.

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Speaker 3: Cooky wasn't there. So they know me, and they say,

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Speaker 3: you know, we're organizing a pool of the networks. We

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Speaker 3: cannot take everyone. We're asking you to lead it. But

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Speaker 3: that is her connection. They trusted her, I feel, and

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Speaker 3: of course she had better connections. Of course she would

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Speaker 3: shmush mush, Daniella when she would be there.

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Speaker 2: You know, the Sandinistas have proof now that the US

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Speaker 2: is involved because they caught an American associated with the

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Speaker 2: CIA kicking out supplies over Contra territory.

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Speaker 1: From a plane. Correct, So basically, the back ass of

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Speaker 1: the plane is open and he's kicking out the kicking.

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Speaker 2: This was this guy's specialty. He kicked out supplies. He

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Speaker 2: kicked out propaganda over Sandinista territory because you want to

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Speaker 2: win over the Sandinistas. But he also kicked out supplies.

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Speaker 5: For the Contras. The plane gets shot down.

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Speaker 2: The pilot and another person on the flight didn't have parachutes,

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Speaker 2: but this guy, Eugene hazard Fus, for some reason, made

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Speaker 2: the decision before he left to wear a parachute, which

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Speaker 2: saved his life. So when the plane gets shot down,

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Speaker 2: it crashes, the pilot and the other guy were killed instantly.

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Speaker 2: Hazard Fus parachuted into Sandinista territory. This poor guy, he's

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Speaker 2: the low man on the totopole, you know, a grunt,

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Speaker 2: a kicker, which wasn't a very big important.

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Speaker 1: Job, certainly not glamorous.

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Speaker 5: Not glamorous.

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Speaker 2: He survives because of the parachute, but he is convinced

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Speaker 2: that as soon as he's caught, he will be shot

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Speaker 2: on site, so he's hiding in some shack. Of course,

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Speaker 2: the Sandinistas come upon him. He's still convinced they're going

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Speaker 2: to kill him, and they don't because they also knew

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Speaker 2: what they had. This was the first time that these

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Speaker 2: guys are going to be able to prove prove positive

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Speaker 2: with the human being that the US was involved in

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Speaker 2: the war.

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Speaker 1: You may have seen the iconic photo of Hasenfus being

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Speaker 1: let out of the jungle by Sandinistas. Lou Demataeus tells

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Speaker 1: us how it came to be.

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Speaker 6: So we're flying in. Of course it's out in the jungle.

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Speaker 6: The hell copter's got a land at the highest point

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Speaker 6: to be like a hilltop that's been cleared by the

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Speaker 6: army guys, so the helicopter could land. As we're coming in,

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Speaker 6: I can see down by the river some activity, and

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Speaker 6: I saw a really tall guy, and there were some

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Speaker 6: shorter guys and farmy fatigues, and so I thought, well,

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Speaker 6: that's that.

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Speaker 4: Must be the guy.

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Speaker 6: So we're getting off the helicopter and the har Republic

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Speaker 6: Relation guys are going we want to have a press conference.

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Speaker 4: Everybody over here. We're going to have a press conference.

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Speaker 6: But I mean, as I was flying in, I saw

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Speaker 6: that destroyed plane and I saw it and I saw

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Speaker 6: the tail section of fuselage, and I saw some soldiers

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Speaker 6: over there, and I said, well, what am I going

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Speaker 6: to be going to wait in the press conference?

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Speaker 4: Or am I going to go get photographs?

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Speaker 6: And I remember I was running towards where I had

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Speaker 6: seen the plane, and I saw these boots, all these

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Speaker 6: army boots, and I remember thinking, what.

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Speaker 4: Are all these army boots doing.

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Speaker 6: It's very strange, And of course I realized later as

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Speaker 6: it was the Contra supply plane, and that was part

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Speaker 6: of what they were supplying, these guys with arms and munitions,

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Speaker 6: but also you know, things like army boots. I got

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Speaker 6: to where the tail section was and a big part

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Speaker 6: of the plane they were pulling rifles out, and then

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Speaker 6: there was a guy on the tail section and he

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Speaker 6: was sort of guarding with this AK forty seven. So

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Speaker 6: I saw this tarp over these bodies and I could

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Speaker 6: see like boots sticking out from the tarp.

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Speaker 4: Those are guys who didn't make it.

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Speaker 6: I took the pictures of the tarp, you know, with

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Speaker 6: the boots sticking out, and I took some other stuff

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Speaker 6: as soon as I got back and there was a

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Speaker 6: whole line of you know, probably three TV.

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Speaker 4: Crews, and there were a bunch of photographers.

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Speaker 6: But then we saw from down where the river was,

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Speaker 6: which was a low point, we saw them bringing Hassimpus

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Speaker 6: up the hill to where the hill copters were. They

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Speaker 6: had his hands tied and then they were leading him,

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Speaker 6: and so I just started photographing.

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Speaker 1: Low's photograph became a synonymous with the Iron Contra affair,

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Speaker 1: as the one with Oliver North standing in front of

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Speaker 1: Congress with his hand in the air. This moment was

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the unraveling of the Reagan administration's illegal

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Speaker 1: operation to fund and supply the contrasts.

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Speaker 6: It turns out the guy who was in front bringing

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Speaker 6: him up the hill, which you see in that photograph,

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Speaker 6: he is actually the one who fired the shoulder mounted

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Speaker 6: a missile, the sam that hit the plane. He was

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Speaker 6: being rewarded for this incredible heat. They brought him up.

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Speaker 6: They let John ask a couple of questions.

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Speaker 1: That's John Seisloff, the CBS producer you've met in earlier episodes,

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Speaker 1: like when Cookie was busted for having some weed, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Quaker. The first question was, can you tell us

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Speaker 1: your name?

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Speaker 4: My name is Jeane Hausen plus Barnett, Wisconsin.

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Speaker 7: If you tell a name.

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Speaker 4: Shot out of the sky. He didn't know what they

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Speaker 4: were going to do to him.

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Speaker 6: When you see the the Conic photo, if you look

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Speaker 6: at him, he looks really worried because he thought there's

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Speaker 6: a good chance they were just gonna plow him away.

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Speaker 6: But when he saw the journalists, then he like relaxed.

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Speaker 6: I'm sure he thought, well, I guess they're not gonna

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Speaker 6: kill me. Is they gonna make it out of here?

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Speaker 6: Because they're not gonna shoot me in front of these journalists. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: it's told demeanor changed. And then like I said, I mean,

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Speaker 6: it was his moment. I mean, it's a great line.

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Speaker 6: He said, I got shot out of the sky. I mean,

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Speaker 6: you know, it was almost like a movie moment, but

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Speaker 6: it wasn't. It was reality.

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Speaker 1: The Washington Post wrote this about the historic moment.

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Speaker 8: Captured American put on display by Nicaragua. Eugene Haussenfuss, an

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Speaker 8: American captured by Nicaraguan troops, appeared briefly at a press

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Speaker 8: conference here late today, and the Sandinista military displayed credentials

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Speaker 8: identifying him and the American co pilot who died in

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Speaker 8: a downed plain Sunday, as US military advisors in El Salvador.

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Speaker 8: A second American the pilot, also was killed, according to

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Speaker 8: Nicaragua officials. The Nicaraguan government charged that the flight was

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Speaker 8: operated by the CIA to resupply US backed rebels known

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Speaker 8: as Contras inside Nicaragua. Osinphus is the first American prisoner

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Speaker 8: of war the leftist Sandinista government is known to have

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Speaker 8: captured in five years of fighting against the Contras.

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Speaker 1: The Sandinista army commander who captured Hazenfus was Lieutenant Colonel

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Speaker 1: Roberto Calderon. If that name sounds familiar, he was the

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Speaker 1: guy that rescued Cookie after the helicopter crash. He said

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Speaker 1: they recovered seventy new Soviet made assault rifles, one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand rounds of ammunition, a dozen PG seven rockets, and

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty pairs of boots. The flo I

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Speaker 1: had originated from a base in El Salvador. The US

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Speaker 1: Embassy in El Salvador immediately released a statement saying Hasenfus

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Speaker 1: is not part of the US military group here. We

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Speaker 1: don't know who he is. The Embassy in Monagua said

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Speaker 1: neither the airplane, nor its crew and cargo were financed

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Speaker 1: by the US government. Hasenfus's wife, Sally, reached out for help.

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Speaker 9: The next morning, I tried to call President Reagan. I thought, well,

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Speaker 9: it's the only place I'm going to get answers. He's

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Speaker 9: you know, I should be able to trust him. He's

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Speaker 9: the president. I knew.

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Speaker 10: He knew.

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Speaker 9: He put me in touch with a man named Elliot Abrams.

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Speaker 9: He said, I don't know who you are, and I

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Speaker 9: don't know what you're talking about. I got angry, and

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Speaker 9: before I hung up, he did admit that he knew

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Speaker 9: what I was talking about, and he kept warning me that,

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Speaker 9: you know, be careful of the press, and you know,

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Speaker 9: be careful what you say, be careful what you do.

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Speaker 1: Elliott Abrams was the Assistant Secretary of State. What Sally

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Speaker 1: didn't know was that he was secretly involved in the

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Speaker 1: whole contrast scheme. In other words, part of the problem,

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Speaker 1: not the solution. You know, it's the biggest story of

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Speaker 1: the decade.

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Speaker 5: I know it's going to be the biggest story of

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Speaker 5: the decade.

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Speaker 1: And you also know that every journalist in the world,

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Speaker 1: certainly in Nicaragua and all the Western journalists covering.

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Speaker 5: It that was there and that I knew we're going

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Speaker 5: to be flying in.

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Speaker 1: Everybody wanted that. Everybody knew what it was, everyone knew

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Speaker 1: what the consequences were.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the first time it proof positive us has evolved.

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Speaker 1: George Bosa, soundman for the CBS Dream Team, was a

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Speaker 1: witness to the mayhem.

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Speaker 11: There were people in the CBS chasing that. Even News

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Speaker 11: was chasing them. Last fifty seventh was chasing them. We

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Speaker 11: were in the office every day, and our office people

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Speaker 11: are Bureau was working night and day to get that interview.

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Speaker 11: So was every other journalist in the country. And there

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Speaker 11: were a lot of big names there from all the

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Speaker 11: other networks. Everybody and their mother was chasing that story,

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Speaker 11: including the New York Times Washington Post.

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Speaker 1: This brings us back to our favorite CBS News correspondent,

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Speaker 1: Jane Wallace, who had been circling the story for years.

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Speaker 7: I am in my office in New York City. I

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Speaker 7: know exactly what this guy was doing there. I know

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Speaker 7: that he's working for Ali North's network and that they're

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Speaker 7: spook related. We're not sure exactly what level of the

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Speaker 7: White House above Ali knows about this operation, but we

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Speaker 7: know who Haus and Frus is the minute. They're pulling

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Speaker 7: them around by the rope. I'm trying to get on

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Speaker 7: a plane to Monogua. I'm trying to go through Miami

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Speaker 7: to get to Nicaragua. CBS is not letting me fly.

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Speaker 7: I owed them expense reports. Expense reports were the bane

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Speaker 7: of everybody's existence, just hideously boring to do, down to

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Speaker 7: the last centavo. They are not letting me put anything

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Speaker 7: on my American Express card to get there.

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Speaker 4: Hold on, let me, let me get this straight.

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Speaker 1: The biggest story of the eighties is unfolding in front

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Speaker 1: of your face, and I.

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Speaker 7: Can't get on a plane because I can't buy the

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Speaker 7: ticket yet. It was breath taking me, stupid. I'm sure

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Speaker 7: I spoke to Manny. I'm sure as spoke to Leslie.

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Speaker 7: We're all trying to get there as fast as we could.

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Speaker 7: We knew exactly what the story was. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 7: not the guy's details in his hometown, but we knew

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Speaker 7: what he was doing there and why you fell out

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Speaker 7: of that plane when he hit the ground. It was

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Speaker 7: so frustrating. My eyes were bulging with a desire to

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Speaker 7: get there and to get this story. We'd been waiting,

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Speaker 7: we'd been taking all the Knox as if we had

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Speaker 7: reported this all, because we'd reported it closer than anybody

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Speaker 7: else had, at least as far as I know, And

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Speaker 7: if somebody was further ahead on the story than us,

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Speaker 7: I'd love to know about it now, because I would

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Speaker 7: have missed it.

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Speaker 11: Then.

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Speaker 7: We wanted Hasenfuss, no question as CBS won't let me

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Speaker 7: buy damn plane ticket, so I charged it on my

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Speaker 7: own card and eventually head down there. I think someone

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Speaker 7: was holding us up on permission to go too, and

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Speaker 7: I just jumped it forget it. I don't remember where

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Speaker 7: Manny was. I don't know if he was in country,

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Speaker 7: out of country, the whole crew, Leslie, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 7: We just all headed to go. We knew because the

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Speaker 7: Intercontinental was sent a tiny town where everybody knew what

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Speaker 7: everybody else was doing. We'd be noticed if I showed

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Speaker 7: up again with Manny and Leslie and George Closa and Cookie,

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Speaker 7: if the whole band gets back together, everybody's going to

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Speaker 7: notice if we stayed there. We didn't have a solid

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Speaker 7: book yet on Hausinfuest. We didn't have it nailed in

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Speaker 7: terms of our access to him, but we decided to

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Speaker 7: go to the Camino instead, so that we could at

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Speaker 7: least stay low profile waiting to go interview this dude.

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Speaker 7: So we get to Monagua, go to the Camino, and

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Speaker 7: the next three days, I'm sitting by a pool, simmery,

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Speaker 7: just simmery, waiting, waiting, waiting for a call. I'm just

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Speaker 7: sitting there. Leslie is just sitting there. George and Manny

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Speaker 7: are just sitting there waiting for the call to go

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Speaker 7: interview Hausenfors. It was just stand by.

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Speaker 2: So that Friday, I'm sitting in the CBS office in

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Speaker 2: Miami and I get that called. So I get the

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Speaker 2: bright idea. Wait, they're going to put this guy on trial.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be a sham trial. He's going to

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Speaker 2: be found guilty, you know, whether they're going to kill

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Speaker 2: him or put him in prison. Was it yet quite

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Speaker 2: clear to me what was going to happen. So I

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Speaker 2: said to myself, let me call my friends at sixty minutes,

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Speaker 2: and so I proceed to call Mike Wallace and Don Hewett.

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Speaker 2: We were all friends and obviously colleagues. I had them

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Speaker 2: on speakerphone and I said, Mike, Don, wouldn't it be

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Speaker 2: great if we get this guy to confess on sixty

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Speaker 2: minutes this Sunday coming and he confesses to the whole world.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be great? Mike dropped the phone. He couldn't

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Speaker 2: believe it. You could hear Don Hewitt screaming.

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Speaker 5: In the background.

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Speaker 2: Fuck yeah, fuck yeah, get this story FORX Cookie, get

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Speaker 2: that interview for us. And I said, okay, got off

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Speaker 2: the phone with them. Called Ortega's right hand guy said

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Speaker 2: to him, look, I know who you've got.

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Speaker 5: I know what he means to you guys.

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Speaker 2: I also figure you're gonna put him on trial. What

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Speaker 2: if you let me and sixty minutes put him on

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Speaker 2: the air this Sunday and have him confess to the

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Speaker 2: whole world before you put on your trial. The guy

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Speaker 2: loved the idea. He says, fuck yeah, we'll make that

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Speaker 2: happen for you.

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Speaker 5: Cookie.

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Speaker 2: I said to Mike, we got it. We're in I said,

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Speaker 2: but I'm in Miami right now. I'm not in Nicaragua.

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Speaker 2: He says, I don't give a fuck. We'll pick you

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Speaker 2: up in the jet. In fact, we'll pick you up

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Speaker 2: tomorrow morning. We'll come in, we'll do the interview, we

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Speaker 2: fly back out, edit it, put it on the air Sunday.

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Speaker 5: Great.

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Speaker 1: Cookie gets the biggest scoop of her career, but the

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Speaker 1: story just gets crazier. We'll be right back, see you

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Speaker 1: on the other side, Welcome back. Before we get to

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Speaker 1: the fallout from the big sixty minutes interview, let's find

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Speaker 1: out how Eugene Hasenfus ended up in the skies of Nicaragua.

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Speaker 1: An ex marine, he started working for an outfit called

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Speaker 1: Air America during the Vietnam War. It's best known for

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Speaker 1: supplying and supporting covert and mostly illegal special ops in

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Speaker 1: Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War, including drug smuggling and laos.

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Speaker 1: They even made a movie about it, starring Mel Gibson

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Speaker 1: and Robert Downey Junior Geane.

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Speaker 4: We're not here right now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw Nixon on TV.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so if we're not.

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Speaker 7: Actually here, then of course this didn't happen as well.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it didn't happen for you, and maybe it didn't happen.

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Speaker 5: For Nixon, but.

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Speaker 1: I think it happened for doug Are America also played

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Speaker 1: a huge part in the evacuation of Saigon in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy five. You've probably seen the footage of helicopters taking

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Speaker 1: people off the rooftops as the Viet com closed in

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Speaker 1: around them.

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Speaker 12: On April twenty ninth and thirtieth, the United States evacuated

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Speaker 12: all remaining Americans, as well as some one hundred and

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Speaker 12: twenty thousand South Vietnamese. Two ships waiting off the ghosts

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Speaker 12: of Vietnam. As the last American helicopter lifted off from

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Speaker 12: the roof of the American Embassy, North Vietnamese tanks rolled

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Speaker 12: through the city and onto the grounds of the Presidential Palace.

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Speaker 1: There's a famous photo of that effort that, like the

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Speaker 1: Hasenfus picture, became a symbol of the failure of another

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Speaker 1: US intervention. Air America helicopters were among the last flights out.

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Speaker 1: They have quite a history. Eugene Hasenfuss was proud of

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Speaker 1: his service.

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Speaker 13: I loved Air America, and I love for anything that

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Speaker 13: our country will do and write. And whether it was

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Speaker 13: CIA over there or whatever, this year was supposed to

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Speaker 13: be another sequel of exactly what Air America was doing

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Speaker 13: over in Southeast Asia, just be a different geographical location

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Speaker 13: and a time sequence, but otherwise it'd be exactly the

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Speaker 13: same working for the government.

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Speaker 1: Back to our story. Last time we saw Jane Wallace,

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Speaker 1: she was on pins and needles, waiting for a phone

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Speaker 1: call that never came.

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Speaker 7: I think three days in, three very long days in

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Speaker 7: at the last minute, Manny and Georgia getting beep to go.

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Speaker 7: What do you mean, Manny and Georgia getting beep to go?

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Speaker 7: COOKI what's the deal?

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Speaker 11: When sixty minutes calls you, it's like you're going to

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Speaker 11: answer that call. The airport in Monagua was closed on

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Speaker 11: the weekends, no flights in her out. So Manny and

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Speaker 11: I were chilling. We're at the hotel. I think we

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Speaker 11: were either by the pool or we were gonna go

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Speaker 11: shopping and Messiah and they tell us say no, no, no,

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Speaker 11: no no, they're opening the airport tomorrow. They're gonna be

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Speaker 11: coming in and it's gonna be a Leer jet and

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Speaker 11: cookies on it with Mike Wallace and Don Hewett and

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Speaker 11: that they got the interview with Eugene Hoseefice and Manny

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Speaker 11: and I weare Wow, what a coup.

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Speaker 7: They didn't know we were in town. They were just

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Speaker 7: beeping any available crew to go interview hosstive for us,

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Speaker 7: and we got stumped. We got stumped. Mike Wallace came

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Speaker 7: to town with his crew, took my crew and my

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Speaker 7: interviewee That's how I felt. But they were two days

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Speaker 7: later than us. They didn't even know what they were after.

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Speaker 7: The reason we didn't get that story was because Cookie

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Speaker 7: wasn't in Monogola. She knew what we were working on.

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Speaker 7: We already knew they were running guns at the least,

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Speaker 7: and it already had powder residue of cocaine around the

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Speaker 7: edges of that story of running guns. We'd already preased

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Speaker 7: it up to auber North. We knew what was going

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Speaker 7: on there. I mean, the only thing we didn't have

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Speaker 7: was a picture of a guy being let around by

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Speaker 7: a rope in the jungle. It turned out to be

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Speaker 7: a redhead from Wisconsin. We were onto them.

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Speaker 2: Mike and Don fly into Miami's picked me up the

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Speaker 2: next morning the lear Jet and we're flying back to

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Speaker 2: Managua to do this great interview. But remember I had

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Speaker 2: been on vacation. Chino, who's by then my ex husband,

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Speaker 2: was there. I knew I needed some party favors to

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Speaker 2: take back with me. Chico was on vacation with me,

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Speaker 2: so I knew I was leaving him in Miami, and

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Speaker 2: so I said to Chino, you need to bring me

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Speaker 2: some supplies because I'm leaving tomorrow morning with sixty minutes,

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Speaker 2: and he brought me a nice hefty supply of party material.

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Speaker 1: We're talking cocaine, obviously.

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Speaker 5: So imset lear jet Land.

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Speaker 2: We get on fly to Monagua, and of course we're

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Speaker 2: not going through customs because it's cookie and it's sixty minutes.

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Speaker 2: Nothing's gonna be checked. I'm cool, nobody's gonna check anything.

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Speaker 11: Low and the whole sixty minute flies in cookies coming

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Speaker 11: down the steps. So the lear Jet, she says, guys,

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Speaker 11: we're going right to the jail. We're gonna do this

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Speaker 11: right now. Okay, the Guatemalins crew is gonna come with us.

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Speaker 11: They'll be the second camera. But you guys got the

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Speaker 11: ball on this. So Manny and I were like, okay, great,

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Speaker 11: let's go, and she says, but first we got to

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Speaker 11: stop and we gotta make peace with the local CBS guys.

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Speaker 11: So we went to a restaurant. We sat down and

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Speaker 11: we're eating and Don Hewitt and Mike Wallace are having

400
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Speaker 11: lunch with our producer and our reporter people in charge

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Speaker 11: of Central America for CBS for the evening years.

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Speaker 1: That would be CBS News correspondent Michael O'Connor and producer

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Speaker 1: on siselof who you've met several times in this series.

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Speaker 11: They were not happy that sixty minutes was just flying in.

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Speaker 11: And the term we use in the business is bigfooting.

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Speaker 11: Mike Wallace is about as big a foot as there is.

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Speaker 11: There might not be any bigger. They come in and

408
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Speaker 11: they take the story from me and they make it theirs.

409
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Speaker 11: So they were complaining to Mike and Don about, Hey,

410
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Speaker 11: you know, it's not fair that we've been humping on

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Speaker 11: the story and then you guys come in here at

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Speaker 11: the last second and just get the interview. They were resentful.

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Speaker 1: Boza told me that Michael Connell was leading the charge

414
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Speaker 1: and he respected him for it, but standing up against

415
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Speaker 1: big foot was probably not a good idea.

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Speaker 11: Mike and Don they didn't like that. They didn't like

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Speaker 11: hearing that. And I remember that they said, you could

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Speaker 11: have come with us today and gotten one question. We

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Speaker 11: would have asked one question and you could have used

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Speaker 11: that one question for Tonight's evening used broadcast. But since

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Speaker 11: you got an attitude you're not coming. You can come,

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Speaker 11: They told the you can come and you can take notes,

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Speaker 11: but that's it. I was like, Wow, this is like

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Speaker 11: the big leagues. This is stuff that usually you know,

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Speaker 11: get the witness. And then we went to the jail.

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Speaker 5: I was furious.

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Speaker 7: They were just trying to move our pieces off the

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Speaker 7: board and take what we had. They were way behind us.

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Speaker 7: I'd gotten all kinds of heat for why are you

430
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Speaker 7: putting this garbage on the air? You know it's not true,

431
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Speaker 7: And I'd gotten that inside from the head of CBS News,

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Speaker 7: like you know, what is this hot air? Are you

433
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Speaker 7: kidding me? So then the proof is in this redheaded guy,

434
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 7: and the proof goes to someone who didn't even have

435
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 7: the story. Oh god, Mike Wallace was a nasty man

436
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 7: and a very sexist guy, a horribly sexist guy. It

437
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 7: wasn't just that he beat you on your own story,

438
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 7: it was that he didn't take you belonged there in

439
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 7: the first place.

440
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 2: Every journalists that had been in Monagua based in Managua,

441
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: flown into Monogua for the story. They're all outside at

442
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 2: the bottom of the stairs in the street, and of

443
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 2: course everyone wants hasidfoos and nobody's getting hasid foods except yours, truly,

444
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: And when we get there, you know, it's like all

445
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 2: the journalists had to part like the Red Sea to

446
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 2: let us through.

447
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 5: And I remember there was one.

448
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 2: Journalist from ABC who kind of whispered to me and said, well,

449
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 2: we know how you got this story. I whispered back

450
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: to him, Well, in l Salvador, we know how you

451
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: get your stories.

452
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: That ABC News correspondent was Peter Collins, one of the

453
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: biggest stars of that network. As far as what Cookie

454
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: is referring to, I'll just leave that there.

455
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 11: Super competitive. Everyone wanted that story. That's a career story.

456
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 11: That's one that makes your career. You know, you get

457
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 11: the exclusive on that one, and your life is going

458
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 11: to change. Yeah, there's a lot of jealousy involved, Dad,

459
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 11: and you had a lot of veteran reporters there, the

460
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 11: La Times, the AP you know upm all right, Cookie

461
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 11: out scooped them all. That hurts, you know, especially when

462
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 11: your boss in New York is calling and going, hey,

463
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 11: what happened? You know, why didn't you get it?

464
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: We go upstairs, there's State security all over, there's the

465
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 2: head of State Security there. So while they're all setting

466
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 2: up for the interview, I of course asked the head

467
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: of State security, where's your bathroom? Because you know what,

468
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: I'm getting ready to go do. So I go to

469
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: the bathroom and I swear to this day I say

470
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 2: that was the best lines of coke that I ever did,

471
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 2: because I'm being escorted by the head of State security

472
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: to the bathroom in State security.

473
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 5: It was just surreal.

474
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 11: The Sandinistas are always uncomfortable when it comes to journalists,

475
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 11: especially American journalists, especially American TV cameras, and when you

476
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 11: have a star like Mike Wallace there, the detention level

477
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 11: just goes through the roof. So everything is being done

478
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 11: very methodically. They're searching, they're questioning, they're talking about where

479
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 11: is the most secure place to do this? So we

480
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 11: finally hammer out everything. Cookie was a big part of that.

481
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 11: Cookie was handling most of the negotiations, interpreting, and we

482
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 11: find the spot, we put all the lights up. It

483
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 11: took us half an hour to get it all ready.

484
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 11: Two crews, two cameras, one camera on Geen No one camera.

485
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: On Mike Pozardfus is still just panicked because now he

486
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: thinks that after he does this interview, he's going to

487
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: be shot. First he looks over at me and I'm

488
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: wearing two different color rebox tennis shoes. I'm wearing two

489
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: different color socks. I'm wearing two different earrings in each

490
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: ear and he kind of looks over at me in

491
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: the nervous humor says to me, Wow, I've never seen

492
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: anybody dressed like that, and we kind of laughed. His

493
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 2: was a nervous laugh. I leaned over and I whispered

494
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: to him. I said, you're not going to be killed

495
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: after this interview.

496
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: Did you feel like the interview itself was going to

497
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: be sort of a layer of protection for him?

498
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 5: No, not at all.

499
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: That interview was going to be him admitting to all

500
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: his quote unquote sins, which is what the Sandinistas we're

501
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 2: going to put him on trial for. So no, he

502
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 2: was convinced he would be shot after our interview because

503
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: he would be admitting to everything that the Sandinistas wanted

504
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 2: him to admit.

505
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: So why would he admit to it?

506
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: Because he's around Americans, he's with sixty minutes. I'm convincing

507
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 2: him that everything's going to be okay. If and when

508
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: you do this interview, it could be some protection because

509
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: now the world will know that you exist. So I

510
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: think I sort of allayed his fears, got him a

511
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: little comfortable.

512
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 11: Door opens. Then comes hasin first and shackled. They walk

513
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 11: him around to the front of the chair. As soon

514
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 11: as hozin First's but hits the chair, the lights go

515
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 11: out right out. Que I mean, it couldn't have happened

516
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 11: in a more timely fashion.

517
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: All hell broken and then precedes what we call Murphy's law.

518
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: Everything that could go wrong starts to go wrong. The

519
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: electricity goes out. Remember we're in a third world country.

520
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: One of the camera crews, one of their pieces of

521
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: equipment goes out, and just slowly everything is going wrong.

522
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 11: It's dark, you can see a little bit, but immediately

523
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 11: the Sandinistas are on full alert. They grab hazard for us.

524
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 11: They got their guns up. I think that they actually

525
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 11: thought that there was a rescue attempt going to happen,

526
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 11: like Chuck Norris was out there with the Delta Force

527
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 11: and they were gonna come in and snatch them. So

528
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 11: they're moving a mile a minute, and in the meantime,

529
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 11: Hewitt is standing up and he's saying.

530
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 14: Everybody's stay put, stay hut, stay hut.

531
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 11: Nobody moved.

532
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 14: Wallace is yelling, let's move everything outside, dice everything, let's

533
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 14: just grab it. We'll do it outside. We don't need lights,

534
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 14: let's just go. So we're all there like frozen. Manny

535
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 14: and I are looking at each other like, who do

536
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 14: we listen to? Do we listen to you with the

537
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 14: creator of sixty minutes? Or do we listen to Mike Wallace?

538
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 14: It's a death sentence. Wherever you listen to the other,

539
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 14: one's gonna get pissed off. So we're frozen and we're

540
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 14: trying to see what's gonna be next.

541
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 11: And somebody I don't remember if it was Cookie or

542
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 11: it could have been Manny, that said, let's just do

543
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 11: it outside. And we went outside and we set it up,

544
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 11: and the Sandinistas were cool about the whole thing. They

545
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 11: held on for him until we were ready. Literally we

546
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 11: set up in seven minutes, like bam, bam, bam, bam bam.

547
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 11: Put the chair on the ground, they brought him, They

548
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 11: sat him, and Don Yue It stepped in between both

549
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 11: cameras like he used to do in the good old

550
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 11: days of film. He looked and he said, okay, guys,

551
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 11: we're gonna roll. Here's the slate and he slapped his hands.

552
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: But it's starting to get late in the afternoon. We're

553
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: going to lose the natural light. We're under a time constraight,

554
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: we need to get this interview done. So the interview proceeds.

555
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: Poor guy is admitting to everything. He's admitting that he

556
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: worked for the CIA. You know, he's former military or

557
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: still military. He's a kicker. It wasn't his first mission.

558
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: He'd been doing that throughout the Sandinista conflict. It's not

559
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: that this guy really knew any kind of you know,

560
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 2: secret information or top secret things, but he knew enough

561
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: to admit that he was guilty of what he had done.

562
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 5: And we finished up the interview. It was great. He

563
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 5: confessed to everything here.

564
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: We know he's going to confess to the US audience

565
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: on sixty minutes. And then as we're wrapping up, Don

566
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: Hewitt looks at me and says, can we get anybody else,

567
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 2: you know in the government to add to this peace?

568
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: And I said, well, would you like to talk to

569
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: the president? He says, you mean Ortega? I said sure,

570
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 2: He says, can you get him? So I called my

571
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: guy in you know, Ortega's inner circle, and I said

572
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: to him, look, we've just wrapped up this hazardfous interview

573
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 2: went well, he confessed to everything. You guys are gonna

574
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: like what he said, can we possibly get the president

575
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: to be in this piece and weigh in on what

576
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 2: we've accomplished here. He said, you got it. I turned

577
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: to Dunn and said we got it. He says, fuck yeah.

578
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: So we all packed up. We went to where the

579
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: president was going to meet us, and we're setting up. Mike, Wallace,

580
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: Don myself, everybody's there. The interview begins and some lull.

581
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: I leaned over to Mike and I said, Mike, ask

582
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: the President if it's possible that Hazifus could be home

583
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: for Christmas, because of course they had been asking ortego,

584
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: you're going to put this.

585
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 5: Guy on trial.

586
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: He said, yes, obviously he's going to be found guilty

587
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 2: or take us says, well, we don't know that. We're

588
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: gonna let justice take its course. Of course, he already

589
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: knew that Hazifusa had confessed to us.

590
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 5: Mike's like, no, I'm not going to ask him that.

591
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 5: I said, Mike, ask him if he's going to be.

592
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: Home for christ and Don Hewitt overheard that and he

593
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: liked that, and he says, Mike asked the question semi begrudgingly.

594
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: Mike says to the President, mister President is it possible

595
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: after the trial that this guy, obviously he could be

596
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: thrown in prison, he could be shot.

597
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 5: Is it possible that he could be home for Christmas?

598
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: And Ortega smiles and he says, anything is possible, mister Wallace.

599
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 5: We knew we had it.

600
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: We knew this guy was going to be home for Christmas,

601
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 2: but that was still a few months away.

602
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 5: We got the story on both sides.

603
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: It was perfect, and of course we're getting ready to

604
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: fly out back to New York to edit the piece, and.

605
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 11: It aired the next day on sixty minutes on Sunday,

606
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 11: and it was earth shattering. It was a tremendous crew

607
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:56,239
Speaker 11: for CBS who came maneuver the government to accommodate us

608
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 11: in this fashion, not only accommodate us with the interview,

609
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 11: which was brilliant. For shoot inside a secure facility in

610
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 11: a carnalist country where there's other prisoners is unheard of.

611
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 11: This all happened because, of course it's sixty minutes, but

612
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 11: it's the diplomacy and the tactfulness of Cookiehood that was

613
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 11: able to make it all happen. Without her, that interview

614
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 11: would have never happened, not in a million years.

615
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: You think that's where this story ends. Not a chance.

616
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: Cookie's just getting started. Pasen Fus was the smoking gun,

617
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: but she's about to find the missing link, the money.

618
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: We'll be right back, Welcome back. Cookie should have been

619
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: heading back to Miami to finish your vacation with Chiico.

620
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: But she wasn't done, not by a long shot.

621
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 4: Oh.

622
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: A stipulation that the Sandinista government made. They wanted a

623
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: copy of our interview because they wanted to air it.

624
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: Our stipulation was that it air after the sixty minutes

625
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 2: broadcast aired. So I was going to be the one

626
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 2: carrying back the copy. But of course I'm not going

627
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 2: to fly back to Monagua and the lear jet because

628
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: the big boys were already back home.

629
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 5: So I was going to fly commercial. I get on

630
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 5: the flight and there's a.

631
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: Ton of journalists on the flight that were flying in

632
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: for this big story.

633
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: Because Miami is the direct connection too there you have

634
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: to go to Miami to get there.

635
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: Almost right, I flew back from New York to Miami

636
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: and then Miami. I'm going to fly to Nicaragua and

637
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 2: I get winn because I have family connections with the

638
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 2: airline Tacka Airlines, and I get winned that Hazidfuss's wife,

639
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 2: Sally is on the flight, but she didn't want to

640
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: be harassed, so she's in the cockpit with the pilots.

641
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: So not only myself gets wind of it, all the

642
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: other journalists get.

643
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 5: Wind of it.

644
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: Everybody's talking about it.

645
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 5: Everybody's talking about it. But since I have the family

646
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 5: connection with the airline, I go up to the front to.

647
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 2: At that time, we're called stewardesses, and I go up

648
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 2: to one that I actually knew in person because of

649
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 2: all my year's fly tackle, because of our family connection,

650
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: And I said to her, I know that there's someone

651
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: in the cockpit, and I know you can't say it

652
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: or agree with me that there is, but is it

653
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: possible for you to give a note to the person

654
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 2: that's not in the cockpit? And she says, Cookie, I'll

655
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: do it because it's you. I said the note to Sally,

656
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: saying my name is Cookie. I'm with CBS, I was

657
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: with Eugene yesterday, your husband, can I speak to you

658
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 2: in the cockpit?

659
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 5: Flight attended takes it up. I don't know what's going

660
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 5: to happen. Next thing.

661
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 2: I know she's coming back looking for me, saying come on,

662
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 2: you're going to the cockpit. And you could just see

663
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: the journalists in the flight. They're all, oh, you know,

664
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 2: everybody's revolting. Why does she get to go up?

665
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 5: Whatever? I don't care.

666
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: So I'm in the cockpit with Sally and I said, Sally,

667
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 2: I was with Eugene yesterday. We did a segment for

668
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 2: sixty minutes. He did a great interview. I just want

669
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 2: to tell you he's okay. And she says to me, well,

670
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 2: how do I.

671
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 5: Know that you were with Eugene? I said, well, he

672
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 5: said something funny.

673
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 2: I was wearing two different color Tendi shoes, two different

674
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 2: color pair of socks, two different types of earrings.

675
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 5: In each ear and he looked over at me and

676
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 5: he made.

677
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: A comment, a funny comment, saying I've never seen anybody

678
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 2: dressed like that before. And for some reason, that let

679
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 2: her know, and she believed that I had been with Eugene,

680
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: and so she was at that.

681
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 5: Point, Oh, please tell me. Is he okay?

682
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,240
Speaker 2: I said, he's okay, And I want to tell you something.

683
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: I tried to comfort him, and I'm going to tell

684
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: you the same thing.

685
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 5: I told him. He's going to be put on trial.

686
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: He's going to be found guilty, but he will not

687
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: go to prison, and he will not be shot.

688
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 5: He will be going home with you. I don't know when.

689
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 5: I said, maybe Christmas, but he will be going home

690
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 5: with you.

691
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 2: And she just grabbed my hand and in tears said, oh,

692
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful, you know, I'm so grateful that you

693
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 2: were able to see him and give him some hope.

694
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 2: And I said, well, we have a caveat here. I'm

695
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 2: going to ask you for one favor. I am not

696
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: going to follow you around for how many months you're

697
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: in Monagua. I am not going to bother you and call.

698
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 5: You for interviews.

699
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: You won't even see me except in the background. But

700
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 2: the day your husband gets released, I'm going to call

701
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 2: you and you're going to be mine that day. You're

702
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 2: not going to give anyone else to tom of day.

703
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: You're not going to give any interviews, You're not going

704
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 2: to give any soundbites to anybody. You're going to be

705
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 2: with me, She says, cookie, anything, anything.

706
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the sixty minutes Hazen food story runs that Sunday night.

707
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: The New York j Times wrote this about the historic interview.

708
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 8: Eugene Hasenfus, The American survivor from the aircraft that was

709
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 8: shot down over Nicaragua on October fifth, said yesterday that

710
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 8: he believed Vice President Bush was well aware of the

711
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 8: private operation to resupply the Nicaraguan rebels. In the interview

712
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 8: with Mike Wallace on the CBS news program Sixty Minutes,

713
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 8: Hassenphus said he was told the resupply effort for the rebels,

714
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 8: or contrast, was similar to CIA sponsored operations in which

715
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 8: he took part in Southeast Asia. He estimated that about

716
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 8: fourteen Americans operating out of El Salvador were engaged in

717
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 8: the underground effort to resupply the contries with arms and ammunition.

718
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 8: Hassenfas said twenty four to twenty six company people, a

719
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 8: term commonly used in connection with the CIA, were involved.

720
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 8: Hassenfas said he believes the Reagan administration quote is backing

721
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 8: this resupply operation one hundred percent. Asked by Wallace if

722
00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 8: he had felt that you were working for the US government, applied, yes, sir.

723
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: You think this story is crazy, wait till you hear this.

724
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: So you got access to what was found in the.

725
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 5: Wreckage, right, I was thinking I was going to get

726
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 5: first access. I didn't know.

727
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 2: I got only access every piece of evidence that was

728
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: found in the wreckage was logged in by number, by picture,

729
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: and an explanation of what each item was. So I asked,

730
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: can I, you know, get a look at all this stuff?

731
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 2: And I'm told Jess, you can, but you'll be the

732
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: only one, and we don't want you sharing the information

733
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: with other journalists or anybody for that matter. We don't

734
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: really want anybody to know we're giving you access to

735
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: all this high level secret stuff.

736
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 5: So I spent the.

737
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 2: Whole day going through you know, little things, big things, minutia.

738
00:40:58,960 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: What kind of stuff was.

739
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: Well, some of it it said that it was from

740
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: the pilot, some of it was from the second victim

741
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 2: of the crash, and some of it was Hasenfusa stuff.

742
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 2: I think like they had his parachute and maybe some

743
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 2: of the things that he was kicking out and hadn't

744
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: yet completed. Apparently the pilot had a briefcase with him,

745
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, he didn't think he was going to get

746
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: shot down and killed. And in this briefcase is just

747
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: a slew of paperwork and business cards and just a

748
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 2: ton of stuff that who knows what it was. So

749
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 2: I come across this business card, and this business card

750
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 2: on the front was from a Swiss bank. The business

751
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 2: card belonged to the vice president of this Swiss bank,

752
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 2: and of course it had his phone number.

753
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: What bank?

754
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: And on the back of the card was a slew

755
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 2: of numbers and the Sandinistas had logged this in as

756
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 2: a business card, and that on the back was.

757
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 5: A phone number.

758
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: I knew that was not a phone number. It was

759
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,959
Speaker 2: too damn long of a sequence of numbers. I said

760
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 2: to myself, what if this is a Swiss bank account?

761
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 2: But would this pilot have been stupid enough to be

762
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 2: carrying that information? Because I think he was in charge

763
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 2: of the Swiss bank account he had access to it.

764
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 5: I actually took the card with me.

765
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: I wasn't supposed to, but I took the card with

766
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: me and went back to the office called Switzerland and

767
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 2: asked to speak to the vice president of this bank.

768
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 2: I identified myself, I said, in one of your cards

769
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 2: was found in the wreckage in Nicaragua by I assume

770
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: one of the people that could access an account. I said,

771
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 2: I know you can't tell me if somebody has an

772
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 2: account in your bank. I know you can't tell me

773
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 2: anything about anything, but would it be okay if I

774
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 2: read you a sequence of numbers and all I want

775
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 2: you to say is yes or no? Could this be

776
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: a Swiss bank account? And I read the sequence of numbers,

777
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 2: he said yes and hung up the phone. Okay, what

778
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 2: is this pilot doing with a Swiss bank account? I

779
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,280
Speaker 2: just knew there was a lot more to the story

780
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: because we still don't know about the Iran Contra connection

781
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 2: at this point, but we now know there's a Swiss

782
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 2: bank account that this guy that obviously worked for the

783
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: CIA has access to. So I remember calling Miami, and

784
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: I remember calling New York. I said it may be nothing,

785
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: but I think it's something big, and I explained to

786
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: him what I had. New York and Miami were beyond disbelief.

787
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: What could this possibly be? So at that point, not

788
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: knowing that I had Iran Contra proof, I passed it

789
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 2: then on to Miami and then obviously New York Foreign Desk,

790
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: and I think that went on to Washington CBS Foreign

791
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 2: Desk in Washington, let them figure it out.

792
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: About a year later this happened.

793
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 8: More than two thousand pages of Swiss bank records considered

794
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 8: crucial to the criminal investigation of the Iran Contra affair

795
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 8: were turned over in Switzerland yesterday to AIDS to Independent

796
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 8: Council Lawrence E.

797
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: Walsh.

798
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 8: The records are expected to provide Walsh's office its first

799
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 8: direct access to the secret Swiss bank accounts used by

800
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 8: fired National Security Council AID Lieutenant Colonel Oliver L. North

801
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 8: and his assistants to divert funds to the Nicaraguan countries

802
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 8: from the sale of US arms to Iran.

803
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: Now I've got to say, yes, I was a part

804
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 2: of this blowing the whistle on Iran contra. But there

805
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: were many journalists based in Nicaragua. There were people in Washington.

806
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:57,919
Speaker 5: In fact, a very.

807
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: Close friend of mine, Leslie Coburn, was at the time

808
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: writing a book about this whole Iran Contra connection. Everybody

809
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 2: was coming at it from a different angle. People were

810
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 2: coming at it from different countries. So I want to

811
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 2: make it quite clear I'm not the only one. Everybody

812
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: was involved.

813
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: So all this goes down. So whatever happened with Sally

814
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: and Eugene.

815
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 5: Okay, So for the next few months there's the trial.

816
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 2: Everybody knew it was going to be a sham, that

817
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 2: he was going to be found guilty and now they've

818
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 2: got the sixty minutes peace as evidence because he's confessing

819
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 2: to everything.

820
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 5: So the trial goes on. It's every day, sweltering heat.

821
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: Sally Hasenfus was just trying to get through it.

822
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 9: It's hard, it's really hard. We've gone through one trial

823
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 9: and I think we're looking forward to another trial. Not literally,

824
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 9: but I think it's something that has to be done.

825
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 9: We need to get through this, get it over with.

826
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: Senator Christopher Dodd had flown in at some point to

827
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 2: try to broker Eugene Hazfuz's release with the Sandinistas, and

828
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: I don't think he was getting anywhere the talks were ongoing.

829
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: I don't think he knew where they stood at this particular.

830
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 5: Moment that we're going to talk about.

831
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: So I get a call before dawn for Mortega's right

832
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 2: hand guy and he tells me today's the day it's

833
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 2: going to happen. And I'm like, what's going to happen?

834
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 2: And he says, you know what I'm talking about, Today's

835
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 2: the day. So I put down the phone. I call

836
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: Senator Dodd, wake him up. I tell him today's the

837
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: day he's getting out. He goes, what do you mean

838
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: I said, they're letting him out today. Of course, I

839
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,959
Speaker 2: wanted him to feel like he had been the one

840
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 2: that accomplished the release. I said, whatever you did, whatever

841
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 2: you said, it worked. They're letting him out today. So

842
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: I hung up with him, and then my final call

843
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: was to Sally hazard Fuchs. I wake her up and

844
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 2: I said, Sally, hate to wake you up, but today's

845
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: the day.

846
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 5: What what day? I said, Sally, Remember I.

847
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 2: Told you that I didn't know when, didn't know how,

848
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: but that you were going to be taking Eugene home.

849
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 2: She says, yes, I said, today's the day. And do

850
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 2: you remember the promise you made me? And she says,

851
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: I think so. I said, you promised me that you

852
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: were going to be mine. I'm going to be with

853
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: you the whole day till the release. You speak to

854
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,240
Speaker 2: no one, give you give no interviews, you give no quotes.

855
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 5: Your mind, she says, Cookie.

856
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: Of course, that was the fateful day that Eugene Hasenfus

857
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 2: was released. Released It to the care Senator Christopher Dodd

858
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: with his wife by his side, and guess what he

859
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 2: was going.

860
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 5: Home for Christmas?

861
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: Mission accomplished, Mission accomplished. Our good friend Stephen Kinzer wrote

862
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: this in the New York Times.

863
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 8: Eugene Hassenphuss, the American air cargo handler captured when his

864
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 8: arms laden plane was shot down over Nicaragua in October,

865
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 8: was pardoned and freed today. Mister Hassenphus, who had been

866
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 8: sentenced to a thirty year jail term by a Nicaraguan

867
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 8: people's tribunal, was turned over to Senator Christopher J. Dodd,

868
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 8: Democrat of Connecticut, and left the country aboard a jet

869
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 8: with mister Dodd. We want to turn citizen Hausentphus over

870
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 8: to the American people, and we are doing so through

871
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 8: the person of Senator Dodd. President Daniel Ortega Savedra said

872
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 8: as he made the announcement, this is a Christmas and

873
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 8: New Year message to the American people. It is a

874
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 8: very concrete message of peace.

875
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 5: So the whistle was blown.

876
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 2: I would like to think that I sort of got

877
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 2: that ball rolling with that Swiss Bank account number. What

878
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 2: we came to find out was the US government in

879
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: order to finance the contrast, because it's against you know,

880
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 2: I guess the Geneva Convention.

881
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: To it's against the law. In the United States. They

882
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: passed law saying you can't fund the contrast the.

883
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: Way they went around That is, the US then began

884
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 2: to secretly sell weapons to our mortal enemy at the time, Iran,

885
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 2: how crazy is this. We're selling our mortal enemy weapons

886
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: so that we could take that money, invest it and

887
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 2: finance drug dealers, some of them my friends, working kahoots

888
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: with the DEA to give them the oka to bring

889
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 2: in crack cocaine into the US so as to make.

890
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 5: More money to finance this army.

891
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 2: Known as the Contras, or as Reagan referred to them,

892
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 2: the freedom fighters.

893
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: I think he really did believe that. But what they

894
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: were doing was illegal, probably a war crime.

895
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 15: My fellow Americans, I thought long and often about how

896
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 15: to explain to you what I intended to accomplish the

897
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 15: fact of the matter is that there's nothing I can

898
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 15: say that will make the situation right. I was stubborn

899
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 15: in my pursuit of a policy that went astray. The

900
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 15: other major issue of the hearings, of course, was the

901
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 15: diversion of funds to the Nicaraguan Contres. Colonel North and

902
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 15: Admiral Poindexter believed they were doing what I would have

903
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 15: wanted done. Yet the buck does not stop with Admiral Poindexter,

904
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 15: as he stated in his testimony, it stops with me.

905
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 15: I am the one who is ultimately accountable to the

906
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 15: American people.

907
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: As I said in the first episode, eleven Reagan administration

908
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: officials were convicted in this scandal, all pardoned when Bush

909
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,720
Speaker 1: took office in nineteen eighty nine, So not much accountability.

910
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: This is Sally hasenfuss on the men and women behind

911
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: the scandal.

912
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 9: I've found out things through this that are going on

913
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 9: that are wrong. Some of these people may start out

914
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 9: on the right foot with the right beliefs. Somewhere along

915
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 9: the line here money, profit took over. Profit became more

916
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 9: important than Jean's life, mister Sawyer's life, mister Cooper's life.

917
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: That pretty much sums it up. Were you ever contacted

918
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: by authorities officials to possibly testify.

919
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 2: Or to Oh, that happened years later once I was

920
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 2: out of the business and I was back in New

921
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 2: Orleans trying to lead a quiet normal.

922
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: But it did happen. It happened, And your response I.

923
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 2: Got whined that they were looking to get me to

924
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 2: testify before a committee about my knowledge of the US

925
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 2: government introducing or facilitating the introduction of crack cocaine into

926
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 2: this country. I just at that point went underground again

927
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 2: because I'm not going to go and testify against the

928
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 2: US government and about drugs.

929
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: It did not happen, all right. So Cookie lived somehow

930
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: to tell her story, and what a fucking story it is.

931
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: She has a few more things to say. We'll be

932
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: right back. Welcome back. It's been a hell of a ride.

933
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: Before Cookie finishes telling her story, we have one more guest,

934
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: justin Wolf. You remember the two Lane history professor who

935
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,439
Speaker 1: looks like the bass player from zz Top.

936
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:42,919
Speaker 16: Hey, Steve, how are you doing?

937
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: How you doing? Resident expert on Nicaraguan history in Central

938
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: America and professor at Tulane University. Oz and Fuz falls

939
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: from the air and changes everything. Tell us about that.

940
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 16: Yeah, I like that Osiphus falls from the air and

941
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 16: everything falls apart. I think about Hassamphus. It's like thread

942
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,720
Speaker 16: or pc yarn in the sweater's just kind of starting

943
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 16: to come out, you know. And I think the Reagan

944
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 16: administration and everyone involved like, just pull that and clip

945
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 16: it off and will be done. But they kept pulling

946
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 16: and pulling, and the whole thing just fell apart. I

947
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 16: think in Nicaragua, Hassimphos was just like icing on the cake.

948
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 16: It just confirmed everything that they already knew. I think

949
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 16: for the Sandinistas, it was really hard to figure out

950
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 16: where an end game could come. I think that they

951
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 16: really wanted to gain the moral high ground, and Hassimphus

952
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 16: gave them an opportunity to do that. I think for

953
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 16: Nicaragua that's really the primary consequence. It gave them breathing room.

954
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 16: It shifted the focus in the US back to kind

955
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 16: of the US government playing the kind of cold war

956
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 16: games that it had long been doing, and allowed them

957
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 16: to come back in the US, if not as the

958
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 16: good guy, at least as the beleaguered small nation that

959
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 16: they were.

960
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: What do you think Iran Contra ranks in the big

961
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: scandals of the recent Hey, the last fifty years. You

962
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 1: have Iron Contra, you have Trump Russia, you have Watergate, you.

963
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 16: Have January sixth, January sixth. Where does it rank in

964
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 16: terms of the effort and its illegality and how deeply

965
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 16: it went. It's actually one of the worst. Right when

966
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 16: you think about Watergate, I mean it was small potatoes, right,

967
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 16: a break in. You know, they always say it's never

968
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,240
Speaker 16: the crime, it's the cover up this It was the crime.

969
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 16: The CIA is breaking the law. The Reagan administration all

970
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 16: up and down the chain is breaking the law.

971
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: And they knew it right.

972
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 16: They thought, we're the executive.

973
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 1: We know best.

974
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 16: These guys are, you know, either fools or pansies or

975
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 16: whatever it is, and we're just going to do what

976
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 16: needs to be done.

977
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: There is one person that we haven't talked too much

978
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: about in this podcast. Tell me about your daughter.

979
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 2: Well, Ellie Lexandra very special. She and Chicho, who you

980
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 2: guys all know, were ten years apart, and she was

981
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:12,479
Speaker 2: born after our story is told. A second child being

982
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 2: raised in a war zone definitely unique, dangerous, not easy.

983
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 2: I've never thought about it in this way, but I

984
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 2: can say it now. Having my two kids with me

985
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 2: during these hard times was a life at vest being

986
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: thrown out to me. When things would be dark, horrible, heinous, unthinkable.

987
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 2: I could always go back to my hotel, to my

988
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 2: living quarters, and there were my children.

989
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 1: How does she feel about the podcast?

990
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 5: She loves it.

991
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 2: At first, I was a little scared that it was

992
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 2: going to be a little too much for because she's

993
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 2: a little more conservative.

994
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 5: Than I am.

995
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 2: But she has just relished in the fact that her

996
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 2: mom did all these things, and I'm going to taking

997
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 2: a step further. She's proud of mommy and she tells

998
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 2: me so every single day.

999
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 1: So we've just done nine episodes of the Journalist of Podcasts.

1000
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: How does that feel?

1001
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 2: At once exhilarating because the job is done, But at

1002
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 2: the same time, I'm quite sad because the job is done.

1003
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 2: The people that we've worked with, all the people that

1004
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 2: have been on the podcast, my former colleagues, my still friends,

1005
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 2: it's a sad feeling for me personally.

1006
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: Was it fun getting to know them again in a

1007
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 1: different way?

1008
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 5: Yes and no.

1009
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 2: For so many years I kept a lot of these

1010
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 2: bad memories buried deep down for obvious reasons, PTSD all

1011
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:52,359
Speaker 2: of that. So working with you bringing up all those

1012
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 2: stories again has obviously brought up the PTSD again, some

1013
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: bad memories, bad feelings. But touching base again with my

1014
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 2: band of brothers has just been wonderful. When you have people, friends,

1015
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 2: colleagues that you go through these imminent death experiences also

1016
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 2: some fun experiences, you don't let that go. We were

1017
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 2: a band of brothers then, we're a band of brothers now,

1018
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 2: and we will be a band of brothers till we die.

1019
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: Now, with the benefit of history and taking this journey

1020
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: through your life and the podcast, how do you feel

1021
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: about your life then, the world you were part of,

1022
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: and how does it apply to you now?

1023
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 2: I think the way I look at it now. First,

1024
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 2: I'm lucky that I survived it. No shit, it was

1025
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 2: an honor to do what I did with the people

1026
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 2: that I did it with and the audience that I

1027
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 2: did it for. If I was a badass warrior bish

1028
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 2: back then, if I was a bad ass as warrior

1029
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 2: bish back then.

1030
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: You're saying bish.

1031
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the new way of saying bitch.

1032
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 16: Fuck.

1033
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that.

1034
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't say bitch anymore because, OK, so you

1035
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 2: say bitch.

1036
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 5: Do you want me to not say no, just bitch?

1037
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 4: Just start over.

1038
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I just hadn't heard. I thought you were

1039
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: like having some sort of tongue twister.

1040
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 2: No, that's how you say bitch without disrespecting a woman.

1041
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: Damn, I'm so disrespectful. Then go ahead.

1042
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 2: So it took me being a fierce badass bish back

1043
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 2: then to reminding me that I'm still a fierce badass

1044
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 2: bish now. I may not be doing the dangerous memorable

1045
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,959
Speaker 2: things that I used to do. But I can see

1046
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 2: the end result of a lot that I did back then.

1047
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: You know, we've been getting messages and comments from women

1048
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: all over the world and they're saying you're an inspiration.

1049
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: How does that make you feel and what do you

1050
00:58:58,320 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: think that means?

1051
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 2: Well, obviously it makes me feel good, and I'm grateful,

1052
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 2: especially to you, for helping me get that story out

1053
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 2: there to where we can influence and help change women's lives.

1054
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 2: Nobody's better than the other person, as you and I

1055
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 2: have come to realize, and of course that's the way

1056
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 2: we think. If we just change one person's life, I

1057
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 2: think we've accomplished what we've set out to do.

1058
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: You might remember Cookie called the search for war footage

1059
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: Looking for Bang Bang. Chuck Gomez, former CBS News correspondent

1060
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: and forever friend of Cookie, wrote a play about his

1061
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: time in Central America, The Bang Bang Blues.

1062
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 10: It's about a reporter who's stratening to cover the war

1063
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 10: in the midst of these confers arriving and in the

1064
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 10: end he becomes the casualty of the war himself. At

1065
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 10: the very beginning of the play, there's a song Now

1066
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 10: I can't sing, but it's something like this. I got

1067
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 10: the Bang Bang blues wearing out my shoes, sitting dusty

1068
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 10: highways for the network news. I got the Bang Bang blues.

1069
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 10: I'm paying my blues, taking big chances, and I hope

1070
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 10: I don't lose.

1071
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:17,479
Speaker 5: Oh yeah.

1072
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 1: I want to give a shout out to journalists everywhere

1073
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: for giving so much, including their lives, in the pursuit

1074
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: of truth around the world. It can be a very

1075
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 1: dangerous calling, and we can't thank you enough for what

1076
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: you do in these crazy times. We need you now

1077
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 1: more than ever. Before we go, I just want to

1078
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: say something. I've known Cookie for a long time. She

1079
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: is one of a kind, generous, loving, courageous, hilarious, insane,

1080
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: the lover of animals and collector of amazing people. It's

1081
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: been one of the great honors of my life to

1082
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 1: help bring her story to you. I hope you've enjoyed

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Speaker 1: it as much as I have. Thanks for listening. The

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Speaker 1: Journalist of pot Cast features the stories and voice Cookie Hood,

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Speaker 1: narrated by Steven step produced by Sean J. Donnelly. Executive

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Speaker 1: producers Jason Wagetsback, Ellen Ka and Roy Laughlin. iHeart executive

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Speaker 1: producer Tyler Klang, Written and edited by Steven step Music

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Speaker 1: by Jay Weigel, Associate producer in sound design Stephen Tanti.

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Speaker 1: Sound mixing by Jesse Sallon Snyder guest sound mixer, Jack Mealy,

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Speaker 1: Web design and social media coordinator Sarah Rodolpho. Special guests

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Speaker 1: Jane Wallace, Stephen Kinzer, George Boza, Alejandro Belly Manny Alvarez,

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Speaker 1: Chuck Gomez, Carla Ferrell, John Basco, Patrick Hood, Lou Demetaeus,

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Speaker 1: Joe Frazier, and Tulaine history professor Justin Woolf. Podcast includes

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Speaker 1: the voices of Lloyd scherr, Ellen k Cindy Pohle, Rachel Wan,

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Speaker 1: Casey Groves, Pablo Sovalla, Jose Torres, Thomas, and Stephen Tonti.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to the talented New Orleans Dream team of musicians

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Speaker 1: that contributed to our score Shane Terrio guitar, Doug Below drums,

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Speaker 1: Alexe Martis percussion, Beaux Saint Pierre keyboards, Alan Maxwell bass,

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Speaker 1: and Dana b violin. Also Lindsay ze Orski composer assistant.

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Speaker 1: And a very special thanks to Beth Anne Macaluso, Will

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Speaker 1: Pearson and Alison Kantor Graber from My Heart Radio. Jason Gerwitz,

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Speaker 1: Christoph SAPARi, Kyle Frederick, Zach Slap, Jacob Meyer, Misha kashkash Ishveli.

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Speaker 1: I also want to thank CBS News, sixty Minutes West,

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Speaker 1: fifty seven, ABC News, NBC News, CNN, PBS, the BBC,

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Speaker 1: The New York Times, The Washington Post, the Miami Herald,

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Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Times, the Associated Press, Fox Television, and FX.

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Speaker 1: This is a production of Journalista podcast LLC and iHeartRadio