WEBVTT - #269 Jason Flom with Temujin Kensu

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<v Speaker 1>On November fifth, nineteen eighty six, Scott Macklum, the son

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<v Speaker 1>of the mayor of Croswell, Michigan, was fatally shot in

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<v Speaker 1>the parking lot of Saint Clair County Community College. A

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<v Speaker 1>fingerprint was pulled from a box of shells at the scene.

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<v Speaker 1>Some students described a potential getaway car as a Redder

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<v Speaker 1>Tan Sedan, but no one had gotten a good look

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<v Speaker 1>at the shoot her. One student, Rennie Gobain, intent on

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<v Speaker 1>involving himself, submitted to hypnotherapy in order to recall the

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<v Speaker 1>license plate number, but it didn't return any results. Eventually,

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<v Speaker 1>the victims alleged fiance, Crystal Merrill, pointed authorities in the

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<v Speaker 1>direction of her ex Temogen Kensu, even though the fingerprints

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<v Speaker 1>didn't match and credible alibi witnesses placed Temagen over four

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<v Speaker 1>hundred miles away. Authorities put his photo in a very

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<v Speaker 1>suggestive lineup, and again Rennie Gobain came to eight investigators

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<v Speaker 1>with an identification. Temasien's rock solid alibi and the lack

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<v Speaker 1>of any physical evidence connecting him to the crime was

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<v Speaker 1>overcome by Rennie Gobain's dubious identification. A character assassination campaign

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<v Speaker 1>that should have been inadmissible. The jury was made to

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<v Speaker 1>believe that Temigen was a Satanic sex raised ninja assassin,

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<v Speaker 1>capable of mind control, and although deeply in debt, he

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<v Speaker 1>was somehow still able to arrange an undocumented private round

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<v Speaker 1>trip flight to commit a murder allegedly over a woman

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<v Speaker 1>who he no longer cared to be within four hundred

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<v Speaker 1>miles of The prosecutor, Robert Cleland is now a federal judge,

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<v Speaker 1>Temogen is still in prison, and the current Attorney General,

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<v Speaker 1>Dana Nessel, who was elected in part to start a

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<v Speaker 1>conviction integrity unit, refuses to end this well recognized injustice.

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<v Speaker 1>This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I

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<v Speaker 1>gotta say, I'm flabbergasted at what we're about to do today.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just nuts. I mean, this case, the case of

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<v Speaker 1>Temwijen Kenzu, is like a masterclass in the failings of

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<v Speaker 1>our criminal legal system and our social system as well.

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<v Speaker 1>By the way, but the criminal legal system is on

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<v Speaker 1>full display in all of its terrors. And this particular

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<v Speaker 1>case is in Michigan, but to be fair, it could

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<v Speaker 1>have been in any state. But here to help us

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<v Speaker 1>tell this story is the man who's been working his

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<v Speaker 1>butt off to get mister Kenzo out of prison. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm talking, of course about Amorn Sayed, who is the

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<v Speaker 1>co director of the Michigan Innocence Clinic and a professor

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<v Speaker 1>at Michigan Law School. Amorn, thanks so much for being

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<v Speaker 1>here with us today.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, thank you for having.

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<v Speaker 1>Me, and now I am we are honored to be

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<v Speaker 1>joined from a Michigan prison by Temigen Kenzu. Temigen, thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for calling in.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you Jason, Thank you to all the listeners out

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<v Speaker 3>there too.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, Temison, you've been in prison since before probably a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of our listeners were even born, and it pains

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<v Speaker 1>me to say that it's really insane. But when they

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<v Speaker 1>hear about the maniacal developments in this case, which should

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<v Speaker 1>have had nothing to do with you because you were

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<v Speaker 1>over four hundred miles away at the time of the

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<v Speaker 1>murder and provably so, I'm going to imagine that they

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<v Speaker 1>will feel exactly the same way. But first, tell us

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<v Speaker 1>about your life before all of this happened.

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<v Speaker 3>I was born in Flint, Michigan, as nineteen sixty three.

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<v Speaker 3>My parents separated when I was very young, around three

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<v Speaker 3>or four years old. From that point on, my mother

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<v Speaker 3>became very resentful towards me, kind of that story. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>you're your father in every possible way, whether it was

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<v Speaker 3>the good or the bad. And it became a very

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<v Speaker 3>violent household, a very abusive household. You know, I was

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<v Speaker 3>not going to strike my mother back, so I basically

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<v Speaker 3>got pounded a lot. It became physically apparent what was

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<v Speaker 3>going on. I ran away a couple of times, and

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<v Speaker 3>eventually I wound up in the Reach foster program in

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<v Speaker 3>Flint until I returned home for the last time at

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<v Speaker 3>about fifteen. And by the time I was sixteen, I

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<v Speaker 3>was gone for good and living with my grandmother and

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<v Speaker 3>pretty much raising myself.

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<v Speaker 1>Now telling Jen that wasn't always your name. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you were born Fred Freeman, but you later received the

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<v Speaker 1>name Tamagen Kenzu from your Buddhist instructor, right, and later

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<v Speaker 1>officially change it while you're in prison. But your fascination

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<v Speaker 1>with Eastern philosophies and disciplines had roots in your formative years,

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<v Speaker 1>mostly because of learning martial arts to block all of

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<v Speaker 1>the attacks that have been coming your way.

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<v Speaker 3>You got that, Yeah, that's true. I was getting pounded

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<v Speaker 3>a lot, and as I said, I wasn't going to

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<v Speaker 3>strike my mother and I was at a drive in

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<v Speaker 3>but I was probably nine years old, nine or ten

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<v Speaker 3>years old, and I saw a movie and I saw

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<v Speaker 3>this in crucial artis just blocking every blow that was

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<v Speaker 3>thrown at him. I also lived in a very violent area,

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<v Speaker 3>and I saw this way to defend myself. You know.

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<v Speaker 3>I learned to learn to block and duck and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>jump out of the way and all the magical things

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<v Speaker 3>we see in martial arts movies. And I said, I'm

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<v Speaker 3>going to learn to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>And you really excelled at martial arts, from what I'm told,

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<v Speaker 1>and so much so that you were invited to live

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<v Speaker 1>and train in Korea. Wow, but your mother would not

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<v Speaker 1>allow it. You also excelled academically and went into the

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<v Speaker 1>military after high school. But despite excelling there as well,

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<v Speaker 1>shin splints from your years of martial arts training kept

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<v Speaker 1>you from moving up in ranks, and which of course

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<v Speaker 1>kept you at the minimum pay three or four years there.

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<v Speaker 1>And that couple with some reckless spending as a young man,

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<v Speaker 1>which again I can relate because I did it too,

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<v Speaker 1>you started racking up some debt. Now you were honorably

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<v Speaker 1>discharged and moved to Washington State, where you had a

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<v Speaker 1>child with a woman named Galen. And then at some

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<v Speaker 1>point you lost your job and out of desperation, wrote

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<v Speaker 1>some overdraft checks to cover your debt's thinking that you

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<v Speaker 1>just pay the fees and get the collectors off your back.

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<v Speaker 1>But you ended up getting prosecuted for theft by the

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<v Speaker 1>check insurance company. You didn't go to jail, but you

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<v Speaker 1>were put on probation.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I had written some bad checks. I deliberately overdrafted

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<v Speaker 3>my account when I was in Washington State between nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>eighty two and nineteen eighty three. Now, just so everyone understands,

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<v Speaker 3>and I'm not defending what I did. I was charged

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<v Speaker 3>with what they call first degree theft out there, and

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<v Speaker 3>I was placed on probation, so no prison or anything

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<v Speaker 3>like that. I didn't agree to pay everything back, and

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<v Speaker 3>i'd actually already begun to do some volunteer work for

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<v Speaker 3>some of the businesses. Actually I paid off my entire

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<v Speaker 3>balance while i'd been in prison on this bit, about

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<v Speaker 3>five six hundred dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>So you made good on it. The point of bringing

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<v Speaker 1>it up is to show that you were both struggling

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<v Speaker 1>financially and now the system had its hooks into you.

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<v Speaker 1>So you were on probation in Washington. Your daughter's mother

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<v Speaker 1>decided to head back to Michigan, and you eventually lost custody.

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<v Speaker 1>You had a few probation violations. They're almost impossible to avoid,

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<v Speaker 1>but somehow Washington State agreed to let you go back

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<v Speaker 1>to Michigan, where you looked up a high school sweetheart

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<v Speaker 1>named Michelle Woodworth. You two connected had a son, but

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<v Speaker 1>you also had an open relationship. Now you live together

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<v Speaker 1>in a cabin in ann Arbor along with your childhood

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<v Speaker 1>friend Tom Ford. You were working studying martial arts and Buddhism,

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<v Speaker 1>very much into health and nutrition at the time, you

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<v Speaker 1>rode a motorcycle or a leather jacket. And to round

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<v Speaker 1>out this picture, I also understand that you were the

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<v Speaker 1>lead singer and a couple of bands back in the day.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I don't want to brag, but I was

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<v Speaker 3>a pretty good singer. It was a dream when I

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<v Speaker 3>was young, in that horrible life at home, to get

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<v Speaker 3>out maybe through music.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't think it'll surprise anyone that a lead

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<v Speaker 1>singer can be popular with the ladies right this long history.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's why people become lean singers sometimes. But anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>there was one young lady in particularly named Crystal Merrill

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<v Speaker 1>from the Boorjuron area, which is a short drive for

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<v Speaker 1>man Arbor, and she became part of the reason why

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<v Speaker 1>we're having this discussion today. But let's back up a

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<v Speaker 1>bit here. So you and Michelle Woodworth, as I mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>had an open relationship, so you were seeing other women.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't a secret to her. And to put a

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<v Speaker 1>fine point on how long ago this was, you met

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<v Speaker 1>Crystal Merril at a video store.

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<v Speaker 3>So I was looking at some musical equipment in the

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<v Speaker 3>music store and I went to the video store and

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<v Speaker 3>there was a girl and then that was Crystal Meryl.

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<v Speaker 3>She started hitting on me, and I was young, and

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<v Speaker 3>I was pretty susceptible of that kind of positive attention.

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<v Speaker 3>And she's like, Oh, let me take you out to

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<v Speaker 3>dinner and I'll pay for everything, and blah blah blah.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, I went for it and I went

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<v Speaker 3>out with her. We wound up having physical relations We

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<v Speaker 3>went out several times. She became obsessive. She was trying

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<v Speaker 3>to change my clothing. She was trying to give me

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<v Speaker 3>a change my hair, get rid of my motorcycle, stop

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<v Speaker 3>wearing a leather jacket. Stop singing rock and roll. He

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<v Speaker 3>just went on on. She's basically trying to sculp me

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<v Speaker 3>into the man that she wanted me to be. So

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<v Speaker 3>she liked, let's say six things about me, and didn't

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<v Speaker 3>like ten things about me. One day she comes with

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<v Speaker 3>a bag full of Eyeside shirts. You know, this is

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<v Speaker 3>the eighties, those pink and lime green with a little alligator.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like, I'm not wearing this. I've got on like

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<v Speaker 3>an Iron Maiden T shirt and a leather jacket and

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<v Speaker 3>shredded jeans.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, right, you're a rock and roll guy. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean you weren't trying to hang at the country club

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<v Speaker 1>with Chad and Blake and were penny loafers, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh my god, I swear I used

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<v Speaker 3>to say she wanted me to be Blake.

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<v Speaker 1>That's hilarious.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm like, listen, you don't like anything about me, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>you don't like my hair, you like my clothes, you

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<v Speaker 3>don't like anything about me. I don't want to be

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<v Speaker 3>with you. She started stalking me and driving by.

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<v Speaker 1>And I understand there was a boiling point where she

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<v Speaker 1>made some dramatic public spectacle at a party and your

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<v Speaker 1>friend Tom became concerned about how Crystal's erratic behavior could

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<v Speaker 1>be dangerous considering your probation status. Once the system gets

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<v Speaker 1>it soaks into you, you have to fly so straight,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to throw at such a needle and be

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<v Speaker 1>like Goodie two shoes just in order to stay at

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<v Speaker 1>a prison. And you had already had another minor brush

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<v Speaker 1>with the law in pleasant Ridge, Michigan. So the three

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<v Speaker 1>of you packed up and moved to Escanaba, which is

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<v Speaker 1>way the hell up in the Upper Peninsula, over four

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<v Speaker 1>hundred miles from Port Huron, where Crystal was licking her wounds,

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<v Speaker 1>and from what we understand, after you left, she got

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<v Speaker 1>involved with some other men and got pregnant. Now, one

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<v Speaker 1>of those men turned out to be the victim in

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<v Speaker 1>this case, Scott macklum, and he was the son of

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<v Speaker 1>the mayor of Croswell, Michigan. And Crystal later claimed that

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<v Speaker 1>they were engaged and that her unborn child was also his,

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<v Speaker 1>But we're not even sure if that's true. And it

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<v Speaker 1>was your previous fling with Crystal that became the basis

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<v Speaker 1>for the States theory for your alleged motive. But what

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<v Speaker 1>seems way more compelling, which is something that the police

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<v Speaker 1>never investigated. Was some of Scott's entanglements in the lead

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<v Speaker 1>up to November of eighty six.

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<v Speaker 3>Prior to his being killed. Supposed that he got in

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<v Speaker 3>some kind of a car chase. All these things were

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<v Speaker 3>happening to this guy. He had a job in some

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<v Speaker 3>kind of a men's clothing store, George and his men's wear,

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<v Speaker 3>and there are multiple instants of these two guys coming

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<v Speaker 3>into his workplace, according to witnesses from the store. And

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<v Speaker 3>I have the reports, and anybody wants to see him,

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<v Speaker 3>we'll share them with you. And says he knew these

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<v Speaker 3>guys on site, and there were two of them, and

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<v Speaker 3>it said the first time they came in the story,

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<v Speaker 3>he had a confrontation with them that almost became violent,

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<v Speaker 3>and it says he challenged them to fight. Says the

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<v Speaker 3>second time they came in the store and he saw them,

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<v Speaker 3>he was so scared he ran in the back of

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<v Speaker 3>the store and he hid. So whatever happened from the

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<v Speaker 3>first incident to the second, he was terrified at these guys.

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<v Speaker 3>The morning that he was murdered at the college, according

0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.400
<v Speaker 3>to people there, he was in the college for some reason.

0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.240
<v Speaker 3>Nobody knows why. Sub zero morning in November of nineteen

0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.760
<v Speaker 3>eighty six, but he skipped his classes, but he was

0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:40.360
<v Speaker 3>in the school with his gym bag, but he never

0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.920
<v Speaker 3>went to gym. We have his college records. He was

0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.440
<v Speaker 3>skipping more and more and more of his classes and

0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:47.120
<v Speaker 3>we know announ it's because he had a drug problem.

0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.480
<v Speaker 3>And he was also dealing drugs at the college. And

0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.760
<v Speaker 3>we found multiple dealers that have confirmed this. So I

0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:53.320
<v Speaker 3>want people to know that I'm not just saying this

0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.640
<v Speaker 3>whatever his family says. They knew he had a drug problem.

0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:58.720
<v Speaker 3>We found dealers that knew his father, that his father

0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:00.000
<v Speaker 3>was paying off his drug debts.

0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.080
<v Speaker 1>So Scott was in trouble. I mean, his wealthy father,

0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.840
<v Speaker 1>the mayor, had tried to save him several times. And

0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.520
<v Speaker 1>you can see how this could have been very embarrassing

0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.199
<v Speaker 1>for a local politician like him, especially back in the

0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.720
<v Speaker 1>eighties when attitudes about drug use were informed by the

0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.840
<v Speaker 1>colossal public policy failure known as the War on Drugs.

0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.240
<v Speaker 1>That same policy also created the environment at which violent

0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.840
<v Speaker 1>crimes like this one occurred. And that brings us to

0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.959
<v Speaker 1>the morning of November fifth, nineteen eighty six, when Scott

0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:33.080
<v Speaker 1>had been at the community college curiously cutting class while

0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.480
<v Speaker 1>carrying a gym bag while not going to the gym.

0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.400
<v Speaker 1>There were also reports that he appeared to be running

0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:41.840
<v Speaker 1>from the student center to his car when this tragic

0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:46.240
<v Speaker 1>incident occurred around nine am, Imron, can you tell us

0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:47.319
<v Speaker 1>a little bit about this.

0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:49.880
<v Speaker 2>It's a tragedy, of course. A man was shot and

0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:54.360
<v Speaker 2>killed in a community a college parking lot in Port Huron, Michigan.

0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, he was kind of shot near his car.

0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:59.920
<v Speaker 3>He's seen running out of the student center. The witnesses

0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.160
<v Speaker 3>said he was running from the student center to his

0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.800
<v Speaker 3>vehicle and then was shot somewhere in front of his

0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:06.959
<v Speaker 3>vehicle and made it to the front left tire's vehicle

0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:07.560
<v Speaker 3>where he fell.

0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.880
<v Speaker 1>So the assailant fired a shotgun once at Scott Macklum,

0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.400
<v Speaker 1>leaving him on the driver's side of the car. The

0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.760
<v Speaker 1>key was still in the door. One shellcasing and a

0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.680
<v Speaker 1>box of shells were found at the scene. A latent

0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.480
<v Speaker 1>print was pulled from the box of shells, and the

0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.440
<v Speaker 1>murder weapon was never recovered. So this is a busy,

0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.960
<v Speaker 1>bustling community college parking lot, and you would think somebody

0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:31.559
<v Speaker 1>would have seen something, right.

0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.960
<v Speaker 2>No one saw the actual shooting itself, at least no

0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.280
<v Speaker 2>one has come forward that saw the actual shooting, so

0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.840
<v Speaker 2>the case was built through the testimony of people that

0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.720
<v Speaker 2>saw things that happened kind of a little bit before

0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.319
<v Speaker 2>or right afterward. One of the witnesses said that he

0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.800
<v Speaker 2>heard the gunshot and kind of as he was looking around,

0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.040
<v Speaker 2>he saw a car driving away kind of fast, and

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, he had only got a fleeting look at

0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:55.840
<v Speaker 2>the person.

0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Right. This was Rennie Gobain, who said that he heard

0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:00.880
<v Speaker 1>what sounded like a tire had blown out, which caused

0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.800
<v Speaker 1>him to notice a light, tan, foreign hatchback style car

0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.920
<v Speaker 1>leaving a lot. There's no certainty about whether this car

0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.640
<v Speaker 1>was even connected to the crime, but nonetheless he saw

0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.160
<v Speaker 1>this alleged assailant through the windshield as he drove by,

0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.000
<v Speaker 1>wearing a dark blue ski cap not covering his face,

0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.960
<v Speaker 1>but according to Gobain, his head was tilted down the

0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 1>entire time, so Gobain didn't even get a good look

0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:25.000
<v Speaker 1>at this alleged assailant. Now, Renny Gobain wrote down a

0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:26.960
<v Speaker 1>license plate number and reported it to police, but the

0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.280
<v Speaker 1>number didn't turn up a match, so Gobain was then

0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.320
<v Speaker 1>hypnotized by his psychology professor in order to try to

0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:38.679
<v Speaker 1>better recall the plate number. I mean, this is just embarrassing,

0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:43.800
<v Speaker 1>and the results were about as probative as one might think. Now,

0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Renny Gobain also initially said that the car was a

0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:51.360
<v Speaker 1>foreign hatchback, but later inexplicably and suspiciously, I would say,

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.719
<v Speaker 1>changed his description to a Ford Escort station wagon. Now,

0:13:55.720 --> 0:14:00.880
<v Speaker 1>this change curiously happened after a nineonymous tip came in

0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:05.480
<v Speaker 1>saying that the alleged assailant had just been spotted driving one. Curiously, again,

0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.760
<v Speaker 1>that tip came in after Timodgy had already been arrested.

0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.679
<v Speaker 1>So why did Gobain change this initial description to a

0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.240
<v Speaker 1>very specific and conflicting description that matched an anonymous tip.

0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 1>And was that anonymous tip even real. We don't know

0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.720
<v Speaker 1>the answers to either of those questions, but we can

0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 1>certainly speculate that Gobain had been fed more information by investigators.

0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, back to the immediate aftermath. So there was

0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 1>also this other witness named Richard Krueger, who was even

0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.400
<v Speaker 1>further removed from the scene and any meaningful information than

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:40.400
<v Speaker 1>even Gobain was.

0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Right, he had just seen a man that he deemed

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:49.480
<v Speaker 2>suspicious loitering nearby near some bushes in an adjoining parking lot,

0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 2>and that was about an hour before the shooting.

0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Right, so not so helpful at the time, until both

0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.359
<v Speaker 1>Rennie Gobain and Richard Krueger both viewed a very suggestive

0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 1>photo lineup, and the suggestion into both of these witnesses

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.480
<v Speaker 1>was to pick Tamagin Kenzu. And we'll get into how

0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.480
<v Speaker 1>it was suggestive in just a bit, But first, how

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.480
<v Speaker 1>does this photo even find its way into this lineup?

0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.479
<v Speaker 1>Because early on in the investigation, before these eventual misidentifications

0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:18.520
<v Speaker 1>from Gobin and Krueger, temision wasn't even on Port Huron

0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Police Department's radar. How did he even become a suspect

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:26.080
<v Speaker 1>living over four hundred miles away in the Upper Peninsula.

0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Mister Kensu initially becomes a suspect because in talking to

0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.200
<v Speaker 2>the victim's girlfriend that they find out that he was

0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.480
<v Speaker 2>a former boyfriend of the victims then girlfriend, Crystal Merrill,

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.760
<v Speaker 2>and she describes him as a curious person, let's say,

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:43.200
<v Speaker 2>someone who's into martial arts, someone who she said, was,

0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, an aggressive type and was very jealous of

0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.160
<v Speaker 2>her and all of that stuff. So that gets police

0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.480
<v Speaker 2>really interested in mister Kensu. They started investigating him. They

0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.240
<v Speaker 2>find that he's living in Rock, Michigan near Escanaba in

0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.040
<v Speaker 2>the Upper Peninsula, which is a whole different world from

0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Port Huron, but they don't let that stop them. They

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.840
<v Speaker 2>start trying to figure out how he could have come

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.240
<v Speaker 2>down from Escanaba, committed the shooting and been back.

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.720
<v Speaker 1>So they investigated Temigen's whereabouts to find a way to

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.080
<v Speaker 1>nail him, not knowing that they were just going to

0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 1>actually solidify his alibi. They found out that he was

0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.600
<v Speaker 1>on a date until I believe around two am with

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.640
<v Speaker 1>a woman named Beth Styr, and his car had actually

0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.520
<v Speaker 1>broke down and he got help and then he went

0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:31.280
<v Speaker 1>home to Michelle Woodworth even later. Meanwhile, the shooting occurred

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:36.400
<v Speaker 1>at nine am, over four hundred miles away. Temwichen was

0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.400
<v Speaker 1>then seen by folks all over town that very day,

0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 1>including out a dojo in Escanaba around noon. Importantly, not

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.680
<v Speaker 1>everyone at the dojo liked Temagen. He was a cocky

0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.560
<v Speaker 1>twenty seven year old guy. But despite any of that

0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.960
<v Speaker 1>and their own animosity stores him, they still corroborated his alibi.

0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.760
<v Speaker 2>The evidence, even at the time of the investigation, was

0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.440
<v Speaker 2>very clear that mister Kinsey was not at the scene

0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.480
<v Speaker 2>of the crime, that he was in fact, at least

0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:06.199
<v Speaker 2>four hundred miles away in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. At distance

0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.240
<v Speaker 2>it would have taken him I think something like seven

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.879
<v Speaker 2>or eight hours to drive each way at the time.

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.760
<v Speaker 1>So even the prosecution accepted that this round trip journey

0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 1>in that timeframe was not possible by car. And we'll

0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:24.000
<v Speaker 1>talk later about how they came up with a preposterous

0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 1>travel theory involving a private plane of which there is

0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.240
<v Speaker 1>no record, right, no aviation logs, nothing, just to make

0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:33.639
<v Speaker 1>to try to make his guilt plausible for a jury,

0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.880
<v Speaker 1>not that they ever proved it at all. I mean,

0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.760
<v Speaker 1>the only physical evidence, the fingerprint on the box of shells,

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:44.639
<v Speaker 1>clearly excluded Temagen, whose alibi was as good as any

0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:45.640
<v Speaker 1>we've ever seen.

0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.679
<v Speaker 3>There's more of this two Jason. So remember there's no

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.280
<v Speaker 3>Scott when Crystal and I are together. So there's no

0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.240
<v Speaker 3>reason to be jealous of this guy. I knew about

0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.440
<v Speaker 3>an RNL Hope, I knew about a Mike Van Dyke,

0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.240
<v Speaker 3>there was no Scott. Secondly, the Scott guy has done

0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.560
<v Speaker 3>nothing to me. Third I've moved far away, I've got

0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.000
<v Speaker 3>girlfriends up. Nor if I'm trying to get this record deal,

0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 3>I'm living with Michelle in this duppy little farmhouse, trying

0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.760
<v Speaker 3>to live my singing dream. I'm not going back down

0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.240
<v Speaker 3>tom Ford confirmed that we never went back down there.

0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.000
<v Speaker 3>We never stalked Crystal or stalked Scott or anything. Again.

0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.240
<v Speaker 3>You know, a lot of the listeners right now are young,

0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.280
<v Speaker 3>and they're used to the present technology. There was no

0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.520
<v Speaker 3>Internet in my day. There were no cell phones in

0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.600
<v Speaker 3>my day. He was killed at college, skipping class on

0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.560
<v Speaker 3>a sub zero morning in poor here on How the

0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:30.879
<v Speaker 3>hell could I have known this guy was going to college.

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:32.840
<v Speaker 3>There's just there's no way I could have done all

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.600
<v Speaker 3>his detective work. You know, I was I was stone broke.

0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:38.399
<v Speaker 3>Michelle was on welfare. I was even more poor by

0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.080
<v Speaker 3>the time we were living up north. There's no way

0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.120
<v Speaker 3>for me to gather all this data about Scott.

0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Right, You'd have to have known where Scott Macklin was

0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.920
<v Speaker 1>going to be and when in order to pull this

0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.680
<v Speaker 1>off and make your return flight to the Upper Peninsula

0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.120
<v Speaker 1>to be seen by nude. It's not like you could

0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.040
<v Speaker 1>have found out information about his class schedule online. There

0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.399
<v Speaker 1>was no online at the time. So instead of seeing

0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 1>the writing on the wall that you were not the

0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.080
<v Speaker 1>guy but rather run down some of the potentially embarrassing

0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.880
<v Speaker 1>leads involving the shady characters connected to the victim, who

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.280
<v Speaker 1>was the son of a wealthy local politician. They made

0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:17.119
<v Speaker 1>you the fall guy Patsy for this murder, and in

0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:19.479
<v Speaker 1>order to do so, they went back to Rennie Gobain

0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.639
<v Speaker 1>and Richard Krueger with this super suggestive photo lineup. And

0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.440
<v Speaker 1>we'll share this photo lineup on our socials along with

0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.399
<v Speaker 1>what was then shown to you the judge and the

0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:33.240
<v Speaker 1>jury to deliberately misrepresent that the lineup was not suggestive,

0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:35.120
<v Speaker 1>we'll have it all linked in the bio.

0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.560
<v Speaker 2>They show Gobain and Krueger a photo lineup in which

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.200
<v Speaker 2>they include mister Kinsu's photo, and what isn't disclosed to

0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.359
<v Speaker 2>the defense, the judge and the jury is there are

0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:47.480
<v Speaker 2>a number of ways in which they clue the witnesses

0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.000
<v Speaker 2>in that they want them to identify Kensu. Much later,

0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Herb Weltzer discovered the photos as they were shown to

0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 2>the witnesses, and we found that there were a lot

0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.600
<v Speaker 2>of differences between all the photos on one side, and

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.359
<v Speaker 2>mister Kensue was the only one who was looking in

0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.679
<v Speaker 2>the opposite direction in his profile view. He was the

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.520
<v Speaker 2>only one wearing a placard of a different city. He

0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:09.399
<v Speaker 2>was the only one who had a striped background. His

0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.000
<v Speaker 2>photo was the newest and clearly stuck out from all

0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:14.119
<v Speaker 2>of the others. All of these elements that would have

0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.120
<v Speaker 2>biased the witnesses and identifying Kensu were just not known

0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:17.960
<v Speaker 2>at the time of trial.

0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.600
<v Speaker 1>And we spoke with Herb Welzer, who was a retired

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.840
<v Speaker 1>detective lieutenant from the poischow On Police Department, and after

0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.560
<v Speaker 1>hearing local investigative reporter Bill Procter's coverage of this case,

0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:29.400
<v Speaker 1>he felt compelled to get involved.

0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.520
<v Speaker 4>My name is Herb Welser. I'm retired from the Poor

0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.600
<v Speaker 4>Earned Police Department and I was with the department for

0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.639
<v Speaker 4>thirty one years and then I retired as detective lieutenant.

0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.359
<v Speaker 4>I was there my final three years. I was in

0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:47.040
<v Speaker 4>charge of the detective Bureau. In two thousand and seven,

0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:51.240
<v Speaker 4>Bill Procter and myself, along with Fred Freeman's wife Amako,

0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 4>were allowed into the Poor Armed Police Department. This is

0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:58.840
<v Speaker 4>after I retired. Lieutenant Jim Jones, who was a very

0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.760
<v Speaker 4>good man. He took over my position as detective lieutenant.

0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.560
<v Speaker 4>Jim invited us to come in and look at the evidence.

0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.000
<v Speaker 4>And one of the first things that we found is

0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:13.040
<v Speaker 4>the five original photographs that were shown to the witnesses.

0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:17.040
<v Speaker 4>There's like ten or eleven things that are different about

0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:21.320
<v Speaker 4>Fred Freeman's picture from the pleasant Rich Police Department compared

0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:23.840
<v Speaker 4>to the other four of the poor In Police Department.

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.680
<v Speaker 4>And I thought to myself, the only way that they

0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:30.520
<v Speaker 4>could have ever got this admitted into court is probably

0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.400
<v Speaker 4>to crop everything out of the photograph other than the

0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 4>facial view of the person. And when this case went

0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:42.840
<v Speaker 4>to trial, there was an Exhibit twenty six. It was

0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:46.720
<v Speaker 4>a poster board that showed the pictures that were shown

0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.879
<v Speaker 4>to the witnesses. For years and years, Fred Freeman and

0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:55.520
<v Speaker 4>his supporters kept filing Foyer requests for Exhibit twenty six

0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.399
<v Speaker 4>to see what it looked like, and they kept getting

0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:03.200
<v Speaker 4>responses is that this is no longer available. It's been destroyed.

0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:07.680
<v Speaker 4>So in two thousand and seven, Exhibit twenty six is

0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.320
<v Speaker 4>still and missing. So about two months later Jim called

0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:15.600
<v Speaker 4>me and he said, hereby I found the Exhibit twenty six,

0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.200
<v Speaker 4>and I was just so sad to see that they

0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:24.240
<v Speaker 4>cropped out everything out of those original five photographs other

0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:26.600
<v Speaker 4>than the facial view. And that's what they showed in

0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:30.760
<v Speaker 4>the courtroom, and it's in the testimony. Bob Cleland said

0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.800
<v Speaker 4>to the sergeant Sergeant John Bounce, he said, are these

0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:37.359
<v Speaker 4>the original photographs that you showed to the witnesses? And

0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:39.000
<v Speaker 4>he testified yes they are.

0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Well. At the time of trial, as far as the

0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.479
<v Speaker 2>judge and the jury knew, the witnesses picked mister Kensu

0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.560
<v Speaker 2>out of a fair lineup. We have these two witnesses

0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.240
<v Speaker 2>who identify Kensu through a very biased lineup, and really,

0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:54.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, they didn't see the shooting.

0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Right, They hadn't seen the actual shooting, and Gobain got

0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.600
<v Speaker 1>a fleeting glimpse at best of someone driving away with

0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:01.879
<v Speaker 1>their head down, and we're not even sure that that

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:06.000
<v Speaker 1>was the actual shooter. So the biased lineup let them

0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:10.040
<v Speaker 1>know who to pick. In fact, when shown live lineups later,

0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:14.120
<v Speaker 1>only ready Gobin even remembered who to pick. Krueger picked

0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:17.280
<v Speaker 1>someone else entirely. Nonetheless, On November thirteenth, thinty eighty six,

0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:19.479
<v Speaker 1>just over a week after the murder, they arrested you

0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:23.600
<v Speaker 1>to Mujin and searched your house. Found zero incriminating evidence,

0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:27.960
<v Speaker 1>no guns, no ammo. Of course, they eventually used all

0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:30.800
<v Speaker 1>of your martial arts weapons as evidence against you at trial,

0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:33.280
<v Speaker 1>even though the cause of death had nothing to do

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:36.320
<v Speaker 1>with martial arts. So when they took you in, did

0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.159
<v Speaker 1>they try to coerce a confession as we often see.

0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.120
<v Speaker 3>I was never interviewed. I was never questioned. They literally

0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:44.200
<v Speaker 3>arrested me and threw me into a cell, and I says,

0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:46.399
<v Speaker 3>nonybody even going to talk to me. Well, what I

0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.120
<v Speaker 3>was told was that road officers were like the whole

0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:50.760
<v Speaker 3>way down, he was saying he didn't do it. He

0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:53.160
<v Speaker 3>was telling us where he was that day that twenty

0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:55.520
<v Speaker 3>people saw him. He can prove he was completely innocent.

0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.000
<v Speaker 3>And I think they were terrified. Remember, they are decided

0:23:58.000 --> 0:23:59.760
<v Speaker 3>to make me the patsy. They decided to make me

0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:02.960
<v Speaker 3>the They've been putting out lies to the press saying

0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:05.200
<v Speaker 3>they had witnesses who saw the murder, the whole nine yards.

0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:06.680
<v Speaker 3>It was all lies. Of course, they didn't have any

0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:08.639
<v Speaker 3>of that. And then by then they had, you know,

0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:11.800
<v Speaker 3>Ray Gobe already willing to set me up. They refused

0:24:11.800 --> 0:24:13.720
<v Speaker 3>to sit down interview because they had to record the

0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 3>interview and there'd be a record and probably me talking

0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:19.359
<v Speaker 3>about my alibi and how I was innocent. So they

0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:21.040
<v Speaker 3>went and told the prosecute he's been saying all the

0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:22.880
<v Speaker 3>way down the car, he's innocent, he can prove it.

0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:25.240
<v Speaker 3>And they put me back in the max section of

0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:27.359
<v Speaker 3>the jail before they put me in the isolation area,

0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:29.639
<v Speaker 3>and they refused to talk to me.

0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:33.639
<v Speaker 1>So no police even bothered to interview you. And you

0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:37.360
<v Speaker 1>were an indigen defendant, so you weren't going to make

0:24:37.400 --> 0:24:39.800
<v Speaker 1>bail no matter what number they said it that you

0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:43.560
<v Speaker 1>had no money and you had this quota planet attorney,

0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:46.840
<v Speaker 1>a former prosecutor named David Dean, who he later found

0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:49.600
<v Speaker 1>out was not only get this a good friend and

0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:53.360
<v Speaker 1>the attorney for the lead detective in this case, John Bounds,

0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:57.320
<v Speaker 1>he was defending him in a criminal investigation for his

0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:01.560
<v Speaker 1>potential involvement with drugs and ports. But then get this,

0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:05.400
<v Speaker 1>David Dean was also compromised through his own drug addiction.

0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:08.280
<v Speaker 3>My lawyer was a former prosecutor from Saint Clair County.

0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:11.400
<v Speaker 3>By eighty four, he was severely addicted to crack cocaine.

0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:14.560
<v Speaker 3>By eighty five, he had a cocaine conviction in Ohio

0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:19.760
<v Speaker 3>and was on probation in Michigan overseen by my trial judge.

0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:22.240
<v Speaker 3>He was under investigation by the drug Task Force in town,

0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:25.760
<v Speaker 3>and he was undercover informant and he was doing drugs

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.960
<v Speaker 3>with the police. Now this is all a matter of records.

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:31.680
<v Speaker 3>He was eventually disbarred for lying to the bar about

0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:34.040
<v Speaker 3>his drug use and because he was observed going into

0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:37.600
<v Speaker 3>crackhouses on nineteen separate occasions. They knew all of this

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:39.879
<v Speaker 3>about this guy. This is the lawyer they gave me.

0:25:54.960 --> 0:25:56.879
<v Speaker 1>The more I look into your case, it seems like

0:25:56.960 --> 0:25:59.720
<v Speaker 1>the only reason why you're still in there is because

0:25:59.800 --> 0:26:03.400
<v Speaker 1>the official misconduct. It's so rampant that there would seemingly

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:07.679
<v Speaker 1>be no end to the potential civil litigation if they

0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:10.160
<v Speaker 1>freed you, as they should, and they've known this all along.

0:26:10.840 --> 0:26:13.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think if you waved your right to

0:26:13.280 --> 0:26:16.199
<v Speaker 1>civil litigation, they might let you out tomorrow. That's just

0:26:16.320 --> 0:26:19.240
<v Speaker 1>my theory. I don't know, you know, while looking into

0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:22.160
<v Speaker 1>your case, my research became more about investigating the state's

0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:24.680
<v Speaker 1>wrongdoing than it ever was about what happened to Scott

0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:28.280
<v Speaker 1>and macklum. So let's get back to their wrongdoing. First,

0:26:28.840 --> 0:26:31.960
<v Speaker 1>they offered you plea deals, but you were already and

0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:35.240
<v Speaker 1>always adamant about your innocence, so they tried another route

0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:36.560
<v Speaker 1>to get you to submit to a play.

0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:39.040
<v Speaker 3>I was taking out a population early into my time

0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:41.080
<v Speaker 3>in the jail and place, and what was called L cell,

0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:43.080
<v Speaker 3>which is an isolation cell in the back of the

0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:45.600
<v Speaker 3>jail in a hallway. The cell was a freezing cold

0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:48.119
<v Speaker 3>in the winter. They would open the security window in

0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:50.880
<v Speaker 3>front of the cell, so it's like twenty thirty below outside.

0:26:51.040 --> 0:26:52.520
<v Speaker 3>There was a blizzard at that time, and they would

0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:54.920
<v Speaker 3>freeze me out of the cell. They turned the water

0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:56.440
<v Speaker 3>off in the cell, so I literally had to drink

0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:58.320
<v Speaker 3>water out of a toilet. I wasn't enough a shower.

0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:00.240
<v Speaker 3>I wasn't allowed to go to recreation, that was allowed

0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:02.679
<v Speaker 3>to have any books. They took away my visits. I

0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:05.000
<v Speaker 3>wasn't allowed to be personal phone calls, and all my

0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:07.920
<v Speaker 3>attorney calls were monitored, and you probably know that's illegal.

0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:10.320
<v Speaker 3>And we actually had the logs showing where they listened

0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:12.440
<v Speaker 3>to my attorney calls and what was discussed a few

0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:14.120
<v Speaker 3>times that I was allowed to talk to my attorney,

0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:16.080
<v Speaker 3>who was, as you know, in on all this and

0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:19.119
<v Speaker 3>a former prosecutor. So their plan to bring me was

0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:20.920
<v Speaker 3>a part of the scheme they had going with my

0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:24.360
<v Speaker 3>attorney where they would keep bringing me these deals, and

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:26.120
<v Speaker 3>of course I refuse.

0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:28.800
<v Speaker 1>This, so you're sticking to your innocence. And at this

0:27:28.880 --> 0:27:32.200
<v Speaker 1>point all they had was Renny Gobain's dubious identification. Now

0:27:32.280 --> 0:27:35.439
<v Speaker 1>remember Krueger didn't pick Tamagen out of the live lineup,

0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:39.000
<v Speaker 1>just the suggestive photo lineup that they purposely misrepresented to you,

0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 1>the judge and the jury. Considering your alibi, it appears

0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:46.479
<v Speaker 1>that they thought they needed some other nonsense to bolster

0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:48.439
<v Speaker 1>their case. What else did they do.

0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 2>The one other piece that we haven't addressed so far

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:55.159
<v Speaker 2>is the jail house informant supposedly hearing Kensu confess to

0:27:55.240 --> 0:27:58.000
<v Speaker 2>committing this crime, and then apparently in this confession can

0:27:58.080 --> 0:27:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Sue also told them, plus, I have this great out

0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:03.760
<v Speaker 2>that involves many witnesses from the Upper Peninsula. This is

0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:07.040
<v Speaker 2>clearly just either the informant, at his own initiative or

0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:10.320
<v Speaker 2>at the direction of someone has you know, tried to

0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:12.399
<v Speaker 2>take out two birds with one stone. He confessed to me,

0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:16.520
<v Speaker 2>and he confessed to fabricating an alibi. The Joe house

0:28:16.560 --> 0:28:18.639
<v Speaker 2>infemant at the time said he was doing this just

0:28:18.720 --> 0:28:20.800
<v Speaker 2>out of the goodness of his heart. Later on he

0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:24.160
<v Speaker 2>would admit that he was doing it to obtain benefits

0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:27.159
<v Speaker 2>in exchange. He admitted that in an affidavit. Later, he

0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:30.800
<v Speaker 2>recanted in a videotape interview with an investigative reporter in

0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:33.240
<v Speaker 2>the Detroit area, basically said he was just doing it

0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:36.000
<v Speaker 2>to benefit himself and as far as he knew, Kensu

0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:38.880
<v Speaker 2>hadn't done anything. Kens who certainly didn't confess to him.

0:28:39.000 --> 0:28:42.160
<v Speaker 2>That informant's name was Philip Joplin, who unfortunately has now

0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:45.120
<v Speaker 2>passed away. But he did as I said, fully recant

0:28:45.160 --> 0:28:46.160
<v Speaker 2>before he passed away.

0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:49.680
<v Speaker 3>Philip Choplin a long term time with about thirty selonies

0:28:49.720 --> 0:28:53.280
<v Speaker 3>and probably fifty mystic meters been out of prison. He

0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:56.800
<v Speaker 3>was also a past in foreman and he'd been stitching

0:28:56.800 --> 0:28:58.880
<v Speaker 3>for years at the Drug Task Force into the police

0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:01.120
<v Speaker 3>and on his other criminal case is I'm never in

0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:03.240
<v Speaker 3>to cell with the other prisoners, so I know something's

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:05.800
<v Speaker 3>going on. This guy. He's asking about my case, and

0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:08.120
<v Speaker 3>he's asking a lot of confidential questions. So on my

0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:10.520
<v Speaker 3>guard the entire time. I tell my lawyer what's happening.

0:29:10.560 --> 0:29:12.320
<v Speaker 3>He's like, oh, I wouldn't even worry about it. I said, no, no,

0:29:12.360 --> 0:29:15.120
<v Speaker 3>something's going on. My lawyer knew. Philip Joplin was an

0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:17.680
<v Speaker 3>informantive and even been involved in some of his cases

0:29:17.840 --> 0:29:20.920
<v Speaker 3>when he was a prosecutor. That's how crooked they are. Well,

0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:24.480
<v Speaker 3>sure enough, here comes this long letter from Philip Joplin saying,

0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:26.400
<v Speaker 3>I confess to everything in the holding cell.

0:29:26.920 --> 0:29:29.200
<v Speaker 1>And although it appears that your lawyer may have known

0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:33.600
<v Speaker 1>what was going on but said nothing, of course, any

0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:36.760
<v Speaker 1>benefit to Joplin was not made known to you or

0:29:36.800 --> 0:29:38.000
<v Speaker 1>the jury, right.

0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:40.040
<v Speaker 3>No, of course not no. And what we also didn't

0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:41.960
<v Speaker 3>know was a secret deal had already been made. Philip

0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:44.720
<v Speaker 3>Joplin was facing what's called a habitual offender sentence or

0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:47.920
<v Speaker 3>life in Michigan. The secret deal involved him basically having

0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:50.560
<v Speaker 3>his charges dropped. The CEO was made with my judge.

0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:53.720
<v Speaker 3>There's handwritten letters saying strong recommendation from Judge Cordon. He

0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:54.760
<v Speaker 3>wants this done right away.

0:29:55.720 --> 0:29:58.840
<v Speaker 1>Judge Cordon, your trial judge, the same one overseeing your

0:29:58.920 --> 0:30:04.120
<v Speaker 1>lawyer's cocaine. You know, it's so weird that your lawyer

0:30:04.400 --> 0:30:07.400
<v Speaker 1>never brought up what he knew about Philip Joplin to

0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:11.600
<v Speaker 1>you or the jury on cross examination. So let's get

0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:15.000
<v Speaker 1>to the trial. It's about six months after the arrest Tevijen.

0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:18.120
<v Speaker 1>You had endured this torture process in jail to get

0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:21.400
<v Speaker 1>you to submit to a deal, which you courageously resisted.

0:30:22.080 --> 0:30:25.360
<v Speaker 1>We've just talked about the nonsense testimony that they presented,

0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:28.840
<v Speaker 1>and you've got this literal joke of a public defender

0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:32.760
<v Speaker 1>who's aware of this informant Joplin from other cases from

0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:36.320
<v Speaker 1>when he was a prosecutor. It just gets worse and worse.

0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 1>So Imron, please give us a run through of everything

0:30:38.640 --> 0:30:39.600
<v Speaker 1>else that happened a trial.

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:42.560
<v Speaker 2>So we've already discussed most of the evidence that the

0:30:42.560 --> 0:30:46.000
<v Speaker 2>prosecution presents, which is, you know, these two witnesses, one

0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:48.520
<v Speaker 2>who says I saw guy loitering in the bushes identified

0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:50.880
<v Speaker 2>him as Kensu, another who said I saw a guy

0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:54.560
<v Speaker 2>driving away after the shooting and identified him as Kensue.

0:30:54.840 --> 0:30:58.480
<v Speaker 2>Both got really fleeting looks at this person, and as

0:30:58.480 --> 0:31:01.240
<v Speaker 2>I said already, both had identified mister Kinsu out of

0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:04.440
<v Speaker 2>a very egregiously biased lineup, but the jury and judge.

0:31:04.160 --> 0:31:04.960
<v Speaker 3>Were not told that.

0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:08.360
<v Speaker 2>And then the other evidence that the prosecution presents, and

0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:11.680
<v Speaker 2>the reason this trial is incredibly long, is they put

0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:14.720
<v Speaker 2>in a whole bunch of character testimony that absolutely is

0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:18.200
<v Speaker 2>inadmissible that courts later have agreed should have been inadmissible,

0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:22.600
<v Speaker 2>but Kensu's lawyer didn't object, And so the most egregious

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:26.200
<v Speaker 2>is the testimony of his ex girlfriend, who describes a

0:31:26.240 --> 0:31:28.840
<v Speaker 2>lot of things that make Kensu seem like a bad guy,

0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:32.320
<v Speaker 2>but have absolutely nothing to do with this case or

0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:36.280
<v Speaker 2>with him shooting anyone ever. So that's the definition of,

0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:39.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, unduly prejudicial evidence that our system endeavors to

0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:43.320
<v Speaker 2>keep out of the courtroom because jurors, being human beings,

0:31:43.480 --> 0:31:45.720
<v Speaker 2>were taking the risk they'll convict someone because they don't

0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:48.680
<v Speaker 2>like him, as opposed to because there's evidence they committed

0:31:48.680 --> 0:31:50.880
<v Speaker 2>the crime. And in my mind, there's no doubt that

0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:53.440
<v Speaker 2>the jury convicted mister Kinsu because they didn't like him,

0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:56.000
<v Speaker 2>because there was all of this evidence brought in that

0:31:56.080 --> 0:31:58.360
<v Speaker 2>he was, you know, abusive to people in his life,

0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:01.480
<v Speaker 2>that he had committed largely petty of the past, and

0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:04.360
<v Speaker 2>this whole narrative was painted of him as a manipulative,

0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:08.800
<v Speaker 2>mind controlling person, which is obviously entirely irrelevant to whether

0:32:08.840 --> 0:32:11.240
<v Speaker 2>he shot a guy in a parking lot. But this

0:32:11.320 --> 0:32:14.920
<v Speaker 2>whole narrative includes weapons being brought in that are supposedly

0:32:14.960 --> 0:32:18.200
<v Speaker 2>the kind of weapons that a ninja warrior would use

0:32:18.240 --> 0:32:20.920
<v Speaker 2>because they try to paint Kensu as a wanna be

0:32:21.280 --> 0:32:24.600
<v Speaker 2>ninja master who can control people and all of that stuff.

0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:27.480
<v Speaker 2>So there's throwing stars and nunchucks and all of those

0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:29.160
<v Speaker 2>are just kind of brought in and put on a

0:32:29.200 --> 0:32:33.080
<v Speaker 2>table at the trial. They have absolutely nothing to do

0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:35.560
<v Speaker 2>with a guy getting shot in a parking lot, right,

0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:38.320
<v Speaker 2>but it's a distraction, and it's kind of just painting

0:32:38.600 --> 0:32:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Kensu in the eyes of a jury as an outsider,

0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:45.160
<v Speaker 2>as someone you wouldn't like if you met. And you know,

0:32:45.280 --> 0:32:47.640
<v Speaker 2>unfortunately that ended up working because the actual evidence of

0:32:47.680 --> 0:32:48.920
<v Speaker 2>guilt was very, very tiny.

0:32:49.240 --> 0:32:52.400
<v Speaker 3>Robert Cleveland's entire story about this case was fabricated. It

0:32:52.440 --> 0:32:55.040
<v Speaker 3>wasn't based on any evidence or any witnesses, it wasn't

0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 3>based in any experts or any forensics. He just made

0:32:57.560 --> 0:32:59.720
<v Speaker 3>it up. So when he made up the crazy story

0:32:59.720 --> 0:33:03.640
<v Speaker 3>about wanting to recruit Crystal into my ninja organization, the

0:33:03.760 --> 0:33:06.320
<v Speaker 3>media was actually beginning to mock him and say, this

0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:09.320
<v Speaker 3>is stupid, this doesn't make any sense. Then he changed

0:33:09.320 --> 0:33:12.760
<v Speaker 3>it to jealous boyfriend, so now I'm a jealous boyfriend.

0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:14.920
<v Speaker 3>You know, they didn't really use the word stalker as

0:33:15.000 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 3>much back then, and of course we know that wasn't

0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:20.400
<v Speaker 3>true too, and Crystal never even implied that.

0:33:20.600 --> 0:33:23.280
<v Speaker 2>So, you know, that's the masterful, supposedly case that the

0:33:23.320 --> 0:33:26.680
<v Speaker 2>prosecution has built, which has very little weight and it's

0:33:26.760 --> 0:33:31.680
<v Speaker 2>largely filled in with completely prejudicial, irrelevant, inadmissible evidence. But

0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:33.840
<v Speaker 2>you know that's what the jury but ended up believing.

0:33:34.520 --> 0:33:37.640
<v Speaker 2>In response. You know, Kensu presented several witnesses, none of

0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:39.680
<v Speaker 2>whom were his friends and family. They were people that

0:33:39.720 --> 0:33:42.880
<v Speaker 2>were largely independent, people he associated with, you know, the

0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:44.880
<v Speaker 2>owner of a store or a guy he met at

0:33:44.880 --> 0:33:47.479
<v Speaker 2>a kmart when his car broke down that day, and

0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:49.800
<v Speaker 2>so I think this alibi probably had a big impact.

0:33:50.080 --> 0:33:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, with all of these independent witnesses, his alibi was formidable.

0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:58.480
<v Speaker 1>It was airtight. And this brings us to the ridiculous

0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:00.120
<v Speaker 1>theory that they used to over.

0:34:00.600 --> 0:34:03.479
<v Speaker 2>So on Rebuttal. The prosecution comes up with this theory

0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:07.240
<v Speaker 2>that theoretically he could have chartered a private plane, committed

0:34:07.240 --> 0:34:09.680
<v Speaker 2>the crime, you know, flown back and forth and no

0:34:09.680 --> 0:34:11.960
<v Speaker 2>one would know. There was never any record that any

0:34:12.000 --> 0:34:15.960
<v Speaker 2>such flight took place. There was no showing that mister Kinsu,

0:34:16.040 --> 0:34:18.480
<v Speaker 2>who at the time was indigen even had money to

0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:19.240
<v Speaker 2>make this happen.

0:34:19.480 --> 0:34:24.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, poor people always fly private, right, Yeah?

0:34:24.480 --> 0:34:27.840
<v Speaker 1>Can you imagine this scenario in real life? He somehow

0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:31.799
<v Speaker 1>finds the private jet department at his local airport in

0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:35.680
<v Speaker 1>the milanoare and then convinces this random pilot who's just

0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:37.759
<v Speaker 1>hanging out to not make any record of the flight.

0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Of course, it's all made plausible by his being a

0:34:41.640 --> 0:34:45.919
<v Speaker 1>ninja who's capable of mind control. But let's just say

0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:49.480
<v Speaker 1>that he's able to accomplish all of that, which is

0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:52.120
<v Speaker 1>obviously batshit insane, he's still got to pay for it.

0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:54.239
<v Speaker 1>Up until this point, he would have had to have

0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:57.400
<v Speaker 1>been hiding his vast wealth while drowning in debt and

0:34:57.440 --> 0:35:00.320
<v Speaker 1>living in poverty. But even if he was secretly well healthy,

0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:02.480
<v Speaker 1>he must have blown it all on the private jet

0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:04.840
<v Speaker 1>because he certainly wasn't spending it on his defense attorney.

0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:07.919
<v Speaker 1>So when we spoke to herb Welser, he pointed out

0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:10.640
<v Speaker 1>some things about this charter plane theory and the pilot

0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Bob Evans, who testified a trial to boast of this theory,

0:35:14.800 --> 0:35:17.839
<v Speaker 1>and somehow it gets even worse from here.

0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:22.440
<v Speaker 4>I met with the detective that was under the searge

0:35:22.440 --> 0:35:25.480
<v Speaker 4>and detected Harry Hudson, and I talked to Harry about

0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:28.239
<v Speaker 4>three hours one night about this case. When we got

0:35:28.320 --> 0:35:31.600
<v Speaker 4>to the airplane theory, Harry said to me, he says, well, herb,

0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:35.120
<v Speaker 4>you know who the airplane pilot was, don't you. That

0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:40.320
<v Speaker 4>is Bob Cleveland's personal airplane pilot. Bob Cleveland was running

0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:43.480
<v Speaker 4>for attorney general here in the state of Michigan, and

0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:47.240
<v Speaker 4>in fact had just lost the election the day before

0:35:47.280 --> 0:35:51.200
<v Speaker 4>this murder. He lost the election on Tuesday. On Wednesday

0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:55.759
<v Speaker 4>morning was the murder, But he said, Bob Evans is

0:35:55.800 --> 0:35:58.920
<v Speaker 4>the pilot who would take Bob Cleveland to his speaking

0:35:59.040 --> 0:36:02.520
<v Speaker 4>engagements here in the state of Michigan while he was

0:36:02.600 --> 0:36:05.719
<v Speaker 4>running for attorney general. And of course it didn't come

0:36:05.760 --> 0:36:06.719
<v Speaker 4>out in the testimony.

0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:12.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, even having spoken about this case hundreds of times,

0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:16.840
<v Speaker 2>I am still shocked at how how nonsensical all of

0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:17.279
<v Speaker 2>this is.

0:36:17.800 --> 0:36:20.279
<v Speaker 1>So despite the fact that all the physical evidence was

0:36:20.320 --> 0:36:23.240
<v Speaker 1>exculpatory and that your alibi was rock solid, they stacked

0:36:23.320 --> 0:36:26.719
<v Speaker 1>up this character assassination campaign that should have been inadmissible

0:36:26.760 --> 0:36:30.359
<v Speaker 1>and invented this ridiculous charter playing theory to support the

0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:35.239
<v Speaker 1>one tiny bit of evidence that mattered. The misidentification from

0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:38.799
<v Speaker 1>Rennie Gobain, who had caught this fleeting glimpse or said

0:36:38.840 --> 0:36:40.920
<v Speaker 1>he did, of an alleged assailant with his head tilted

0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:43.400
<v Speaker 1>downward in a car that we're not even sure was

0:36:43.440 --> 0:36:47.080
<v Speaker 1>the shooters. And then when presented with this unduly suggestive

0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:50.160
<v Speaker 1>photo lineup, he chose your picture and said that you

0:36:50.200 --> 0:36:54.279
<v Speaker 1>look like the driver of that car. Then the prosecution

0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:59.239
<v Speaker 1>purposely misrepresented to you, the judge and the jury just

0:36:59.280 --> 0:37:03.799
<v Speaker 1>how suggested that lineup was. So Gobain's testimony, then the

0:37:03.840 --> 0:37:07.719
<v Speaker 1>nonsense testimony, along with a bunch of irrelevant bullshit like

0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the testimony from Crystal Merrill, your martial arts weapons collection,

0:37:12.320 --> 0:37:15.160
<v Speaker 1>the mystery around you being some sort of a ninja,

0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:18.120
<v Speaker 1>the fact that you had children by two different women

0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:21.279
<v Speaker 1>and enjoyed an open relationship with Michelle Woodworth. Seeing all

0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:23.640
<v Speaker 1>of that, it seems like the jury was more convinced

0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:25.960
<v Speaker 1>that they just didn't like you, rather than that you

0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:28.839
<v Speaker 1>had committed this crime. So when the jury came back

0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:32.760
<v Speaker 1>in take us back to that moment, that horrible, horrible

0:37:32.800 --> 0:37:36.279
<v Speaker 1>moment when they convicted and sentenced you to life without parole.

0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:39.360
<v Speaker 3>Jaw hit the floor. I couldn't believe it. I literally

0:37:39.360 --> 0:37:41.360
<v Speaker 3>almost fell over and I just I turned him so

0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:43.160
<v Speaker 3>I didn't do this. And I turned to judge and

0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:44.560
<v Speaker 3>said that there's no way you can believe that I

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:46.399
<v Speaker 3>did this, your honor. I said it my sentence too,

0:37:46.640 --> 0:37:48.560
<v Speaker 3>There's no one you can believe that I committed this crime.

0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:50.960
<v Speaker 3>You watched this whole trial. There was no evidence I

0:37:51.040 --> 0:37:53.080
<v Speaker 3>had anything to do with this. I'd never even met

0:37:53.120 --> 0:38:11.480
<v Speaker 3>this guy. MBoC policy required you had to at least

0:38:11.480 --> 0:38:14.000
<v Speaker 3>twenty seven years old to go to state prison Southern Michigan.

0:38:14.040 --> 0:38:17.400
<v Speaker 3>I was twenty three. In violation that policy. Robert Cleland

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:19.600
<v Speaker 3>had made demands on the MDOC that they placed me

0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:22.200
<v Speaker 3>in Jackson. Jackson, at that time was the world's largest

0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:24.520
<v Speaker 3>wall prison, and it was also one of the most violent.

0:38:25.040 --> 0:38:27.239
<v Speaker 3>Two corrections officers were killed the year that I came down,

0:38:27.600 --> 0:38:29.719
<v Speaker 3>Josephine McCallum and Jack Bud. Jack Budd was killed in

0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:32.000
<v Speaker 3>front of me, by the way, in December twenty seventh,

0:38:32.040 --> 0:38:34.440
<v Speaker 3>I believe it was in nineteen eighty seven. It was

0:38:34.600 --> 0:38:37.440
<v Speaker 3>insanely violent. I watched a man killed over twenty five

0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:39.840
<v Speaker 3>cent what we call a shot of coffee, a little

0:38:39.880 --> 0:38:42.799
<v Speaker 3>tablespoon of coffee. I mean, it was crazy violent, and

0:38:43.000 --> 0:38:44.680
<v Speaker 3>I was the ninja killer, and I had been in

0:38:44.719 --> 0:38:47.239
<v Speaker 3>the press, so everybody had to try me. And so

0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:49.000
<v Speaker 3>when I got to Jackson, I knew my life was

0:38:49.000 --> 0:38:50.640
<v Speaker 3>in danger, and I was attacked while I was still

0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:53.520
<v Speaker 3>on what's called quarantine. I was able to defend myself, fortunately,

0:38:53.560 --> 0:38:55.560
<v Speaker 3>and after that I began it just trained furiously.

0:38:55.600 --> 0:38:58.160
<v Speaker 1>I thought, I'm going to die in this place, right,

0:38:58.280 --> 0:39:00.520
<v Speaker 1>And you also learned a law even when a couple

0:39:00.560 --> 0:39:04.120
<v Speaker 1>of times pro se, which happens basically almost never.

0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:06.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I beat the NBALLC like thirty forty times now,

0:39:06.800 --> 0:39:08.680
<v Speaker 3>and I just settled some more cases. I settled to

0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:12.760
<v Speaker 3>some diet cases and abuses for our digital content provider

0:39:12.760 --> 0:39:14.520
<v Speaker 3>and some other things. So, but I do this for

0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:15.120
<v Speaker 3>other prisoners.

0:39:15.160 --> 0:39:15.319
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:16.640
<v Speaker 3>I don't do this to get rich. I do this

0:39:16.680 --> 0:39:18.920
<v Speaker 3>to help people. And what I do with my rule

0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:20.600
<v Speaker 3>has always been I try to be the person for

0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:22.560
<v Speaker 3>them that I needed for me when I was a

0:39:22.680 --> 0:39:24.439
<v Speaker 3>young guy that was a mess and didn't have any help.

0:39:24.680 --> 0:39:27.040
<v Speaker 1>And while you help many others, it all started with

0:39:27.160 --> 0:39:29.480
<v Speaker 1>learning how to help yourself and your own legal filings.

0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:31.440
<v Speaker 1>And I want to turn to Amron here. Now we know,

0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:34.840
<v Speaker 1>even with evidence of all of this misconduct, exculpatory evidence,

0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:38.719
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. Post conviction litigation is usually a long and

0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:42.520
<v Speaker 1>winding road to nowhere to no relief. In start contrast

0:39:42.560 --> 0:39:44.640
<v Speaker 1>to how easy it is to get wrongfully convicted, and

0:39:45.239 --> 0:39:48.560
<v Speaker 1>even among a galaxy of other cases, tellisions really stands out.

0:39:48.920 --> 0:39:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Here we are thirty five years later. There are so

0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:56.920
<v Speaker 1>many twists and turns, including a near turnaround moment in

0:39:56.920 --> 0:39:59.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty ten, but even before that, there were times when

0:39:59.560 --> 0:40:03.440
<v Speaker 1>what needs to happen in this case was made painfully

0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:05.960
<v Speaker 1>obvious to any objective observer.

0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:09.680
<v Speaker 2>There are, you know, probably five or six moments when

0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:12.880
<v Speaker 2>this conviction could have been overturned because enough had been

0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:16.200
<v Speaker 2>shown to be wrong with it, and unfortunately all of

0:40:16.239 --> 0:40:19.240
<v Speaker 2>those five or six opportunities were lost. So it starts

0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:23.160
<v Speaker 2>on the direct appeal where his direct appeal attorney is

0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:25.799
<v Speaker 2>trying to obtain the original photos because he wants to

0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:28.960
<v Speaker 2>be able to show that these witnesses identified Kinsu through

0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:32.319
<v Speaker 2>a bias lineup that essentially police framed Kinsu and he's

0:40:32.360 --> 0:40:35.920
<v Speaker 2>not given the original photos, and then ultimately, if the

0:40:35.920 --> 0:40:39.560
<v Speaker 2>transcript is correct, they essentially hand him some other photos

0:40:39.600 --> 0:40:41.719
<v Speaker 2>from the case and say these are the ones, and

0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:43.400
<v Speaker 2>we know they're not the ones because they had different

0:40:43.440 --> 0:40:48.160
<v Speaker 2>people in them, so that direct appeal is unfortunately a failure. Then,

0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:51.720
<v Speaker 2>in the mid nineties is when an investigative reporter starts

0:40:51.760 --> 0:40:54.560
<v Speaker 2>digging into this stuff, a guy named Bill Procter, and

0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:57.920
<v Speaker 2>he interviews jurors, and he interviews some of the alibi witnesses,

0:40:58.080 --> 0:41:03.040
<v Speaker 2>and most significantly gets that videotaped recantation from the jailhouse informant,

0:41:03.480 --> 0:41:05.680
<v Speaker 2>who by that time is admitting not only was he

0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:09.160
<v Speaker 2>given incentives to testify against Kensu and those were not disclosed,

0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:12.440
<v Speaker 2>but also as admitting that it was entirely a fabrication.

0:41:12.680 --> 0:41:15.160
<v Speaker 2>So that's another moment where you know, based on that,

0:41:15.360 --> 0:41:18.200
<v Speaker 2>you could think this conviction should be reversed, but it wasn't.

0:41:18.560 --> 0:41:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Then you pointed out, you know, slowly but surely, we

0:41:21.200 --> 0:41:23.759
<v Speaker 2>get to twenty ten, and a couple of important things

0:41:23.800 --> 0:41:27.800
<v Speaker 2>happened there. First, Kensu, working on his own without an attorney,

0:41:27.840 --> 0:41:31.400
<v Speaker 2>files a federal habeas corpus petition, and it's an absolutely

0:41:31.480 --> 0:41:34.239
<v Speaker 2>massive filing because you know, as far as he realizes,

0:41:34.400 --> 0:41:36.200
<v Speaker 2>he just wants to put everything he has into it.

0:41:36.520 --> 0:41:38.759
<v Speaker 2>A lawyer might say, hey, let's edit this down. Let's

0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:41.320
<v Speaker 2>only keep the most salient stuff. But you know, for Kensu,

0:41:41.360 --> 0:41:43.680
<v Speaker 2>his life is on the line, and he puts it together,

0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:47.840
<v Speaker 2>this massive filing. And interestingly, that is right around the

0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:50.840
<v Speaker 2>time when our Innocence Clinic at Michigan Law School opened

0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:53.480
<v Speaker 2>and we had started to look at this case. And

0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:55.560
<v Speaker 2>we were looking at this case because even by then

0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Kensu had a lot of local supporters that were urging

0:41:58.040 --> 0:42:00.439
<v Speaker 2>us to look at this case. We read the trial

0:42:00.480 --> 0:42:04.000
<v Speaker 2>transcripts and found that this was an absolutely silly conviction,

0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:07.279
<v Speaker 2>that he clearly hadn't committed this crime. So we signed on.

0:42:07.840 --> 0:42:09.720
<v Speaker 2>And you know, at the time, I was a law student,

0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:12.400
<v Speaker 2>so I wasn't representing Kensu, but the professors who were

0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:14.799
<v Speaker 2>leading their clinic at the time signed on to be

0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Kensu's attorneys in federal district court. You know, they intended

0:42:18.239 --> 0:42:22.200
<v Speaker 2>to file amended habeas petition where they could you know,

0:42:22.239 --> 0:42:24.680
<v Speaker 2>winnow the claims to what they believed was the most

0:42:24.840 --> 0:42:28.520
<v Speaker 2>important But actually by then the judge had, as it

0:42:28.560 --> 0:42:31.320
<v Speaker 2>turned out, already been reviewing Kensu's federal habeas and she

0:42:31.400 --> 0:42:34.680
<v Speaker 2>ended up granting it pretty quickly after we had signed on,

0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:37.720
<v Speaker 2>so clearly she hadn't really even read any new filings

0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:40.280
<v Speaker 2>we made. She granted based on what Kensu had filed.

0:42:40.560 --> 0:42:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Wait, so a federal judge looked into the petition that

0:42:43.440 --> 0:42:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Temagen filed pro say and it was granted. That's incredible.

0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:51.239
<v Speaker 1>So then what happened? Why did this not lead to

0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:51.840
<v Speaker 1>his release?

0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:55.120
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately, the law is very very restrictive on this stuff,

0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:57.040
<v Speaker 2>and so the state has a right to appeal that

0:42:57.080 --> 0:42:59.800
<v Speaker 2>to our intermediate appellate court, the Sixth Circuit Court of

0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:04.680
<v Speaker 2>and they unfortunately reversed and upheld the conviction again. They

0:43:04.719 --> 0:43:07.239
<v Speaker 2>said all of this should have been brought before that

0:43:07.239 --> 0:43:09.799
<v Speaker 2>they couldn't consider the merits of this evidence because it

0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:12.560
<v Speaker 2>should have been presented earlier. So you know, Unfortunately, after

0:43:12.600 --> 0:43:15.279
<v Speaker 2>that loss, a couple of other things happened. In twenty ten,

0:43:15.360 --> 0:43:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Kensu sought clemency from the governor for the first time.

0:43:19.160 --> 0:43:22.720
<v Speaker 2>He succeeded in getting a hearing. Unfortunately, clemency was denied

0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:25.320
<v Speaker 2>and there were a lot of underhanded tactics I feel

0:43:25.320 --> 0:43:27.719
<v Speaker 2>that we used during that time again to just get

0:43:27.760 --> 0:43:31.480
<v Speaker 2>at character assassination instead of focusing on the evidence. Clemency

0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:33.800
<v Speaker 2>was denied at that time. But herb Weltzer had discovered

0:43:33.920 --> 0:43:36.279
<v Speaker 2>this uncrop photo lineup that showed for the first time

0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:39.280
<v Speaker 2>that the witnesses had been biased by the police into

0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:42.520
<v Speaker 2>selecting mister Kensu. So we filed a new state court

0:43:42.560 --> 0:43:44.759
<v Speaker 2>filing based on that. We got a hearing on it

0:43:44.840 --> 0:43:48.839
<v Speaker 2>around twenty thirteen, fourteen, But unfortunately the writings on the wall,

0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:50.560
<v Speaker 2>every time you go to Saint Clair County and talk

0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:53.160
<v Speaker 2>about the Kensu caset, no one's really going to give

0:43:53.200 --> 0:43:55.120
<v Speaker 2>you the time of day. So we had a hearing.

0:43:55.239 --> 0:43:58.120
<v Speaker 2>It was a very very contentious hearing, and the judge

0:43:58.239 --> 0:44:01.600
<v Speaker 2>ended up ruling against us. The appeals on that filed

0:44:01.719 --> 0:44:05.400
<v Speaker 2>a federal habeas petition. Unfortunately that was denied as well.

0:44:06.040 --> 0:44:08.879
<v Speaker 2>The interesting thing here, of course, one of many interesting things,

0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:12.719
<v Speaker 2>is that the prosecutor who had tried Kensu's case subsequently

0:44:12.880 --> 0:44:15.560
<v Speaker 2>was appointed a federal judge, and now it's still a

0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:19.160
<v Speaker 2>federal judge in Detroit, that's Robert Cleland. That's created kind

0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:22.080
<v Speaker 2>of a whole new level of conflict in this case.

0:44:22.200 --> 0:44:25.440
<v Speaker 2>When we filed his second federal habeas petition, all of

0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:27.759
<v Speaker 2>the judges in the Eastern District of Michigan, which is

0:44:27.800 --> 0:44:31.040
<v Speaker 2>the Federal court in Detroit, all of the judges recused themselves,

0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:35.000
<v Speaker 2>and Kensu's case was actually decided by a senior status

0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:39.200
<v Speaker 2>semi retired judge in Kentucky, which is an interesting situation

0:44:39.280 --> 0:44:40.840
<v Speaker 2>and not one I've come across before.

0:44:41.160 --> 0:44:43.600
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately, that was denied as well, and so since he

0:44:43.680 --> 0:44:46.680
<v Speaker 1>has filed for clemency a few more times with subsequent

0:44:46.719 --> 0:44:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Michigan governors. Now one would think that after a federal

0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:54.680
<v Speaker 1>judge agreed with his actual innocence claim and an appellate

0:44:54.719 --> 0:44:59.640
<v Speaker 1>court denied him only on procedural grounds, maybe that should

0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:03.480
<v Speaker 1>have held some weight in the governor's mansion. But he's

0:45:03.560 --> 0:45:07.279
<v Speaker 1>been denied three times there as well. And then in

0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:10.080
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty, Dana Nessel ran for Attorney General, and all

0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:13.400
<v Speaker 1>during that summer she was riding the wave of righteous

0:45:13.400 --> 0:45:16.280
<v Speaker 1>indignation about the state of law enforcement and the criminal

0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:20.160
<v Speaker 1>legal system in this country. She made promises, including that

0:45:20.200 --> 0:45:22.719
<v Speaker 1>they'd start a conviction integrity unit. This, of course, is

0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:25.040
<v Speaker 1>the kind of thing that can go around the procedural

0:45:25.120 --> 0:45:29.359
<v Speaker 1>bars that restrict relief throughout the court system. Right But unfortunately,

0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:33.080
<v Speaker 1>after reviewing this case, get this, they didn't disagree that

0:45:33.160 --> 0:45:37.120
<v Speaker 1>he was innocent, but rather they changed the rules after

0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:40.600
<v Speaker 1>he filed and came up with some self imposed restriction

0:45:40.760 --> 0:45:43.640
<v Speaker 1>about a need for new evidence, just like he'd needed

0:45:43.640 --> 0:45:48.799
<v Speaker 1>an appellate court. So now this is the Attorney General's CiU,

0:45:49.280 --> 0:45:53.279
<v Speaker 1>not the Wayne County CiU, which is widely regarded as

0:45:53.360 --> 0:45:57.400
<v Speaker 1>one of the finest and most effective in the country.

0:45:58.120 --> 0:46:02.839
<v Speaker 1>But this age in a Nessl's CiU has only successfully

0:46:02.880 --> 0:46:06.719
<v Speaker 1>granted relief in three or four cases, and they came

0:46:06.840 --> 0:46:10.200
<v Speaker 1>up with a reason to deny Temagit as well, which

0:46:10.360 --> 0:46:14.640
<v Speaker 1>was to require new evidence. So since Temigen was already

0:46:14.719 --> 0:46:18.240
<v Speaker 1>so thorough in its federal habeas petition, there's no currently

0:46:18.320 --> 0:46:22.719
<v Speaker 1>new evidence to present, and I'm just sitting here struggling

0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:25.959
<v Speaker 1>to figure out why they did this. In addition, since

0:46:26.000 --> 0:46:29.400
<v Speaker 1>closing their investigation into Temigen's case, they won't even release

0:46:29.440 --> 0:46:32.200
<v Speaker 1>the summary report as they've done in the past. So

0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:34.959
<v Speaker 1>I can only guess, as I did earlier, that there's

0:46:35.040 --> 0:46:40.480
<v Speaker 1>just such vast official misconduct in this case that admitting

0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:43.560
<v Speaker 1>to the wrongdoing would be very expensive, not to mention,

0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:48.320
<v Speaker 1>probably highly embarrassing for some people in positions of real power.

0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:53.480
<v Speaker 1>So this Conviction Integrity Unit is now totally ignoring Temigen's

0:46:53.480 --> 0:46:56.920
<v Speaker 1>innocence and doing exactly what everyone else did, of course,

0:46:56.960 --> 0:47:01.680
<v Speaker 1>except for that one federal judge, Judge Hood, who alone

0:47:02.239 --> 0:47:05.200
<v Speaker 1>had the courage to recognize Temagin's innocence.

0:47:05.719 --> 0:47:07.719
<v Speaker 2>So that's where we're at now, you know, believing the

0:47:07.800 --> 0:47:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Kenshu's one innocent. We're not going to give up on

0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:14.239
<v Speaker 2>the case, but with each subsequent loss there are fewer

0:47:14.320 --> 0:47:17.960
<v Speaker 2>and fewer options that are still on the table. Fortunately,

0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:20.239
<v Speaker 2>I think we still do have a couple of pathways

0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:22.400
<v Speaker 2>left to us, thanks to the work of Herb Weltzer,

0:47:22.440 --> 0:47:24.440
<v Speaker 2>who has done all this amazing work for him. But

0:47:24.680 --> 0:47:26.600
<v Speaker 2>the craziest part of this case is he's a person

0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:28.919
<v Speaker 2>who should never have been convicted a trial, and yet

0:47:28.960 --> 0:47:31.359
<v Speaker 2>here we are, now thirty five years later, always trying

0:47:31.400 --> 0:47:34.319
<v Speaker 2>to think of more and new evidence of innocence, when

0:47:34.320 --> 0:47:36.799
<v Speaker 2>really all the evidence of innocence has existed in this

0:47:36.840 --> 0:47:37.720
<v Speaker 2>case from the beginning.

0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's not like this CiU has different evidence

0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:43.319
<v Speaker 1>from what you've all heard here today. They've got it.

0:47:43.960 --> 0:47:48.320
<v Speaker 1>So I hope that with an election looming they would

0:47:48.680 --> 0:47:49.680
<v Speaker 1>take bold action.

0:47:50.080 --> 0:47:52.759
<v Speaker 3>That's what he's saying. You'd start kicking ass. Now you

0:47:52.840 --> 0:47:55.120
<v Speaker 3>can go out there and say, look what I just did.

0:47:55.480 --> 0:47:57.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is what they campaigned on and were

0:47:57.719 --> 0:48:00.640
<v Speaker 1>elected to do. And I understand that you phone bank

0:48:00.719 --> 0:48:04.359
<v Speaker 1>for these people, your new wife, Paula, since Amako, your

0:48:04.440 --> 0:48:07.400
<v Speaker 1>previous wife had passed. Paula was literally out there knocking

0:48:07.440 --> 0:48:12.360
<v Speaker 1>on doors. And then their inaction here is It's just

0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:15.040
<v Speaker 1>it's made extra painful by that fact.

0:48:15.200 --> 0:48:18.080
<v Speaker 3>Right, And they made so many promises, and you know,

0:48:18.120 --> 0:48:20.040
<v Speaker 3>Paula has been to so many rallies and listening to

0:48:20.080 --> 0:48:22.600
<v Speaker 3>so many families who were weighing on that unit to

0:48:22.640 --> 0:48:25.359
<v Speaker 3>do something. And they brought any amazing people like Robin

0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:29.279
<v Speaker 3>Frankel and Patricia lil and Louring Montgomery and valorying him

0:48:29.320 --> 0:48:32.239
<v Speaker 3>in the best, the best in this state, great investigators,

0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:35.600
<v Speaker 3>great attorneys, and nothing's coming out. And it's not because

0:48:35.640 --> 0:48:38.400
<v Speaker 3>the investigtors and the attorneys. It's because something happened. I

0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:40.719
<v Speaker 3>don't know if people scared her. I don't know if

0:48:40.719 --> 0:48:42.000
<v Speaker 3>they told her they thought it was going to hurt

0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:43.280
<v Speaker 3>her reelection chances.

0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:47.040
<v Speaker 1>How in the world can setting the innocent free be

0:48:47.160 --> 0:48:49.960
<v Speaker 1>seen as anything other than a moral imperative.

0:48:50.280 --> 0:48:52.840
<v Speaker 3>Everyone agreed the innocent shouldn't be in prison. This is

0:48:52.880 --> 0:48:54.440
<v Speaker 3>a pretty bipartison issue.

0:48:54.640 --> 0:48:56.880
<v Speaker 1>So I'm sure our listeners would like to do whatever

0:48:56.920 --> 0:48:59.320
<v Speaker 1>they can to write this wrong. If you're a Michigan,

0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:03.120
<v Speaker 1>I thought imagine that you're incredibly frustrated by everything you've

0:49:03.160 --> 0:49:06.440
<v Speaker 1>heard on this podcast today, all this evidence. So please,

0:49:06.480 --> 0:49:09.160
<v Speaker 1>we need all of you to sign a petition that's

0:49:09.239 --> 0:49:12.319
<v Speaker 1>linked in the bio, and hopefully your support can help

0:49:12.440 --> 0:49:14.480
<v Speaker 1>move this one over the line as it's done in

0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:16.919
<v Speaker 1>other cases. And so many people have already joined this fight,

0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:21.920
<v Speaker 1>including US Representatives Andy Levin and Rashida Dlaib, as well

0:49:21.960 --> 0:49:25.280
<v Speaker 1>as State Senator Stephanie Chang, who issued a joint statement

0:49:25.400 --> 0:49:28.680
<v Speaker 1>after Temigen's denial in the CiU. I'm going to quote

0:49:28.760 --> 0:49:32.560
<v Speaker 1>from that statement. They said, we were deeply disappointed. We

0:49:32.640 --> 0:49:34.719
<v Speaker 1>have great respect for the Attorney General and the other

0:49:34.760 --> 0:49:38.640
<v Speaker 1>attorneys involved in this case. However, the standard used by

0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:41.680
<v Speaker 1>the CiU in its review of the Kenzu case predetermined

0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:45.640
<v Speaker 1>the outcome to us, the wrong outcome. Our point of

0:49:45.680 --> 0:49:48.160
<v Speaker 1>view is not based on technical or procedural flaws in

0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:50.759
<v Speaker 1>the case or discovery of an alibi witness who has

0:49:50.800 --> 0:49:53.920
<v Speaker 1>never presented a trial. It's based on the fact that

0:49:54.040 --> 0:49:57.040
<v Speaker 1>Kenzu could not have committed and did not in fact commit,

0:49:57.080 --> 0:49:59.480
<v Speaker 1>the crime for which the state is taking away the

0:49:59.719 --> 0:50:03.319
<v Speaker 1>entire rest of his life now thirty five years on,

0:50:04.640 --> 0:50:07.640
<v Speaker 1>and the continued resistance to this fact of actual innocence

0:50:07.640 --> 0:50:11.759
<v Speaker 1>by current and former law enforcement officials does nothing to

0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:16.680
<v Speaker 1>change the fact itself. Wow. So if you're as outraged

0:50:16.760 --> 0:50:19.960
<v Speaker 1>as we all are, we'll have links to action steps

0:50:19.960 --> 0:50:22.719
<v Speaker 1>in the bio, so please check those out and get

0:50:22.760 --> 0:50:26.279
<v Speaker 1>involved Separately, if anyone has new information about this case,

0:50:26.360 --> 0:50:29.839
<v Speaker 1>Carl Herbwelzer will be posting his contact info as well.

0:50:30.600 --> 0:50:33.439
<v Speaker 1>And now we turn to closing arguments, where I thank

0:50:33.520 --> 0:50:35.640
<v Speaker 1>both of you for joining us to share your story,

0:50:36.320 --> 0:50:39.400
<v Speaker 1>and then I'll turn my microphone off, kick back in

0:50:39.400 --> 0:50:41.840
<v Speaker 1>my chair and listen to whatever else you feel is

0:50:41.920 --> 0:50:44.239
<v Speaker 1>left to be said. We'll kick it off with them,

0:50:44.360 --> 0:50:47.719
<v Speaker 1>Ron and Temagen, please take us off into the sunset.

0:50:48.280 --> 0:50:50.319
<v Speaker 2>This is one of those cases that really leaves you

0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:52.640
<v Speaker 2>scratching your head because all of the evidence that he

0:50:52.680 --> 0:50:55.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't commit this crime has existed from the beginning, and

0:50:56.040 --> 0:50:58.680
<v Speaker 2>so now it's just a matter of kind of acknowledging

0:50:58.760 --> 0:51:01.320
<v Speaker 2>that evidence and coming to grips with it, as opposed

0:51:01.320 --> 0:51:05.120
<v Speaker 2>to looking for technicalities to skirt around the evidence, which

0:51:05.160 --> 0:51:07.920
<v Speaker 2>is unfortunately what the past. You know, thirty years of

0:51:07.920 --> 0:51:10.560
<v Speaker 2>appeals have been everyone looking for an excuse not to

0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:14.600
<v Speaker 2>consider the actual evidence of the case. Whether that excuse

0:51:14.719 --> 0:51:17.560
<v Speaker 2>is you know, initially he consues a manipulative person, or

0:51:17.600 --> 0:51:20.120
<v Speaker 2>he's a bad guy to women in his life, or

0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:22.359
<v Speaker 2>that he you know, he's the type of person who

0:51:22.360 --> 0:51:24.359
<v Speaker 2>would do this, and then later it turns into, oh,

0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:26.520
<v Speaker 2>you have even more evidence of innocence, but you should

0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:28.480
<v Speaker 2>have presented it earlier. I think we have to look

0:51:28.520 --> 0:51:30.440
<v Speaker 2>past all of this stuff. This is simply a guy

0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:32.239
<v Speaker 2>who should never have been convicted. You know, if he

0:51:32.360 --> 0:51:34.200
<v Speaker 2>was to be let out tomorrow, that would be thirty

0:51:34.200 --> 0:51:36.680
<v Speaker 2>five years too late. There's really not a way to

0:51:37.040 --> 0:51:40.160
<v Speaker 2>give him back what's happened. The only thing is that

0:51:40.200 --> 0:51:42.719
<v Speaker 2>there should be an urgency to right this wrong. And

0:51:42.800 --> 0:51:44.680
<v Speaker 2>I know that's the only thing he's ever wanted. So

0:51:44.800 --> 0:51:46.920
<v Speaker 2>hopefully we're approaching a time though, where we can finally

0:51:46.920 --> 0:51:48.920
<v Speaker 2>come to grips with the reality of his innocence.

0:51:49.640 --> 0:51:52.319
<v Speaker 3>I want everybody to understand it. We say this all

0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:54.279
<v Speaker 3>the time and it becomes cliche, but you know, your

0:51:54.320 --> 0:51:56.480
<v Speaker 3>voice really does matter. You know, we had all these

0:51:56.520 --> 0:51:58.760
<v Speaker 3>protests going on a little while ago, and you know savvy,

0:51:58.840 --> 0:52:03.080
<v Speaker 3>some riots. Change was starting. Because of those protests. They

0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:05.719
<v Speaker 3>create this great bill as George Floyd Bill, And you

0:52:05.719 --> 0:52:08.800
<v Speaker 3>know what, all the protesting stopped, all the noise making stop,

0:52:08.840 --> 0:52:11.200
<v Speaker 3>the media coverage stopped, and the bill's going sit in limbo.

0:52:11.480 --> 0:52:15.560
<v Speaker 3>It's already done. They could pass that bill right now,

0:52:16.120 --> 0:52:19.280
<v Speaker 3>that Policing Act. It's a great act. It's not unfair,

0:52:19.320 --> 0:52:22.720
<v Speaker 3>and it creates necessary protections. But we stopped making noise.

0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:25.560
<v Speaker 3>And when we stop making noise, they don't have to

0:52:25.560 --> 0:52:27.600
<v Speaker 3>pay attention to us anymore, or only a few of

0:52:27.640 --> 0:52:30.239
<v Speaker 3>us are just crickets chirping in a field at night.

0:52:30.640 --> 0:52:32.880
<v Speaker 3>It's pleasant, it's not too irritating, and it can be

0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:35.600
<v Speaker 3>easily ignored and enjoy whatever you want to do. And

0:52:35.640 --> 0:52:37.239
<v Speaker 3>I know people have their own lives, and they have

0:52:37.360 --> 0:52:39.920
<v Speaker 3>their jobs, and they have their kids and all their responsibilities.

0:52:40.320 --> 0:52:43.920
<v Speaker 3>But nothing is going to change until we demand change.

0:52:44.200 --> 0:52:46.680
<v Speaker 3>Nothing's gonna get me better until we stop complaining about it.

0:52:46.800 --> 0:52:49.080
<v Speaker 3>Some people want things to be better, but they feel like,

0:52:49.160 --> 0:52:51.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, it's like my quote, it just doesn't matter.

0:52:51.080 --> 0:52:53.520
<v Speaker 3>It's not going to change anything. It does matter, it

0:52:53.680 --> 0:52:55.920
<v Speaker 3>is going to change something. You don't have to be

0:52:55.920 --> 0:52:57.439
<v Speaker 3>famous and don't have to be wealthy, and you don't

0:52:57.440 --> 0:52:59.560
<v Speaker 3>have to be connected. You just have to want things

0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:03.520
<v Speaker 3>to get Call your senators, call your congressman. If you're

0:53:03.560 --> 0:53:05.520
<v Speaker 3>out there and you hear the story of this case,

0:53:05.680 --> 0:53:07.520
<v Speaker 3>just for example, and it is one of the worst

0:53:07.560 --> 0:53:10.120
<v Speaker 3>cases ever. So it's a great example. But I'm no

0:53:10.239 --> 0:53:12.680
<v Speaker 3>better and no more important than anybody else who's suffering

0:53:12.719 --> 0:53:15.600
<v Speaker 3>in here. But if this story moves you at all,

0:53:15.600 --> 0:53:17.279
<v Speaker 3>if you if you say, I don't ever want to

0:53:17.280 --> 0:53:21.080
<v Speaker 3>see this happen to anybody ever again, not just mister Kensu, nobody,

0:53:22.120 --> 0:53:24.880
<v Speaker 3>call our governor, call our attorney general and demand that

0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:28.040
<v Speaker 3>they fix this, and then demand legislation changes. If you

0:53:28.080 --> 0:53:29.759
<v Speaker 3>make a deal with an informant, you have to put

0:53:29.800 --> 0:53:31.440
<v Speaker 3>in writing that there was a deal, and you have

0:53:31.520 --> 0:53:33.920
<v Speaker 3>to disclose everything because there's no loss, and they have

0:53:33.960 --> 0:53:35.960
<v Speaker 3>to disclose anything. They have the you know, the Brady

0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:40.560
<v Speaker 3>rule and disclosure. But it's so shape. Prosecutors have absolutely immunity.

0:53:40.680 --> 0:53:43.600
<v Speaker 3>Why they'll tell you they can't do their jobs without immunity.

0:53:43.760 --> 0:53:46.440
<v Speaker 3>That's insane. What if a doctor said, I can't do

0:53:46.480 --> 0:53:48.600
<v Speaker 3>any surgery on you unless you wave all of your rights.

0:53:48.640 --> 0:53:50.640
<v Speaker 3>I can leave instruments behind you and cut the wrong

0:53:50.719 --> 0:53:53.200
<v Speaker 3>leg off. You're cool with that, but we do this

0:53:53.239 --> 0:53:56.839
<v Speaker 3>with prosecutors and judges. They don't need immunity unless they're

0:53:56.840 --> 0:53:58.080
<v Speaker 3>doing something wrong.

0:54:04.920 --> 0:54:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to

0:54:07.960 --> 0:54:11.720
<v Speaker 1>thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Cliburn, and Kevin Wartis,

0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:14.920
<v Speaker 1>with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in this production

0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:18.240
<v Speaker 1>was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

0:54:18.560 --> 0:54:22.040
<v Speaker 1>Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

0:54:22.320 --> 0:54:26.040
<v Speaker 1>on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at

0:54:26.080 --> 0:54:29.200
<v Speaker 1>wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On

0:54:29.320 --> 0:54:32.239
<v Speaker 1>all three platforms, you can also follow me on both

0:54:32.320 --> 0:54:36.560
<v Speaker 1>TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason flam Raeful Conviction is

0:54:36.560 --> 0:54:39.279
<v Speaker 1>the production of Lava for Good podcast and association with

0:54:39.360 --> 0:54:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Signal Company Number one.