WEBVTT - The Truth Behind the Tutu 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:05.359 Wine Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast. 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:11.400 Oh my goodness, I'm so excited for today's episode because 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.600 we have a additional guest on today. Of course, we've 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:19.000 got Catherine and we've got Um, the one and only 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:23.480 a little bit fancy Christen Breast. I'm not gonna have 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:28.360 your phone. You've done this before, Breast. So I saw 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:30.520 the rundown today and we have Um. Would you like 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:32.800 to introduce who we have on today? I can't, I'm squeally. 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:36.600 So I was like, there's only one at Texas Catherine. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:38.000 I was like, you know who we have to have 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:42.360 on tomorrow, right, because like she's obsessed. I mean, she's 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:46.479 so obsessed that she's dressed like Carrie Bradshaw today. It's 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:48.720 a way of life, I like to think. But that's fine. 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.000 It's not creepy. It's just supportive. Do you like the 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:55.720 new season? I needed them back. I just needed them 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.120 in my life. It feels like cozy and good and 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.360 so for that, I love the new season. It's hard 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:05.600 to watch some of it in which sense. Well, I mean, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:07.320 if anybody has been under a rock, they know that 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.280 Big is no longer with us. In a lot of ways, yikes, 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.880 but Big dying was really hard for me. We made 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:17.720 us all a widow, right, But where did you think 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:19.440 the season was going to go if Big didn't die? 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:24.240 I don't know, but some of plays happier I waited, 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:28.040 like ten years or something. Yeah, I mean, I totally 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.000 hear you. But at the same time, it's like the 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:35.200 whole show is about like Carrie's love life. Okay, she's happy, great? Right? 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:39.840 Who looks happily ever after? Apparently no one? And now 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:45.240 you're all caught up on you. Oh lord, Um, it 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:47.560 was funny. I was Can you shut that door? By 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:49.240 the way, I hear the cuckoo clock? Just like, do 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.320 you guys hear how loud that cucko clock? Is? No, 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:58.680 not at all, but it's loud, right, I think it's 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:05.720 just existing. But what are we shutting? This is? This 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:07.440 is a good metaphor. Here we go. What are we 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:11.520 shutting the door to right now? In our life? Oh? 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.040 We just took a turn, we did. I love the turns. 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.959 Thank you a little bit of fancy. What are you 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.280 shutting the door on? Um, I'm shutting the door on control. 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.840 I know it's a big one that just came to me. 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.920 This week actually control freak, and I love my own plan, 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:33.280 so I'm just releasing control. Were you in my therapy 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:38.040 session yesterday or mine today? By the way, fun fact 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.000 we all have the same therapist. Hi, Amy shout out 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.360 to Refuge Center of Counseling in wrinkled Dennessey. I was 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.520 just like I was because I was telling you that 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.600 I had therapy yesterday, and I said, when do you 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:50.720 see Amy next? So I just saw her yesterday and 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.840 she was, oh, Catherine seeing her today? And I have 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:58.280 a Friday for a sweet Amy. I wonder if sometimes 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.200 she really does want to talk more about each other. 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.040 Like I say things and I can see her face 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.400 like make a twitch, and I'm like, well, Janna, and 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.000 she's like and I was like, I know you can't 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.280 confirm or deny that you have Janna Kramer is your impation. 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.519 She gives you this look like stop pushing the hip 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:14.600 hop policy, like get out of my life. I'm always 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.920 like my friend, oh, I always say, I'm like, well, 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:18.840 Catherine said yeah, and then I was like and then 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:20.360 I talked about Nick a little bit because we were 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.280 how did I why I talk about because I said, 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:26.840 like I appreciate um, like he's like a brother to 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.000 me and so like because she was asking about Ian 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.960 because she's very protecting. Yeah, and so she was just 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.240 asking like that, I wanted to talk about you an 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.120 end today, but I didn't. Why would you talk about 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:38.760 us and your therapy ses? You talked about how we 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.200 had a double the angle date the Angle, but did 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.600 not know I pressed about the Angle. I was also like, 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.560 the same reason you're talking about her husband and your 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:48.440 therapy is the same reason she wanted to talk about 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.760 your boyfriend and her therapy. But like, why I was 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.720 talking about how we had like a double date and 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:55.280 she's like, oh, you'll do that often. And then I 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.600 was like, wanted to like, but I didn't. I came back. 0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:59.040 I came back. It was good. It was like talking 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:00.720 about how it was fun, and it was what did 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.520 you want to say, Catherine? I just wanted to talk 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.040 about it. I wanted to like, what do you think? 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:07.480 I didn't. Oh, I would like for you guys do 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.720 she would never she want to give me anything. But 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.400 going back to control. It's interesting because I was in 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.800 therapy yesterday and I just started that was what I'm 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.159 so in church, we talked about fasting and I'm like, okay, 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:26.400 get out of here, stop, this is okay, Like I 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.760 could cry because I know this is divine timing. The 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:34.240 fasting is control. Fasting is feasting. I can't handle you. 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.360 I cannot handle it. This is what I'm fasting from 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.440 me too. Well, we better hunker down together. One of 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:51.040 us are good talk the fan. I can't inspect. I'm 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.200 controlled too. I get it. But it's interesting because when 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.120 I was sitting in church, I was like, you know 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.719 where they were talking about fasting, how fasting is feasting, 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:04.119 and I'm like, I can't fast food because I already 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.600 have a bad relationship with food generally. So I can't 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.000 skip a meal because I already skip probably more than 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:11.920 I should. I shouldn't say that, but you know what 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.120 I'm saying, like, I don't have the greatest relationship to 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:17.520 use God as my crutch for another reason not to 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.480 eat food. And it's it's cool if you do, like 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.920 you know people do, like a pastor. Kevin was saying, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:25.200 like he doesn't have to be food. It can be 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.039 in social media. And because some people don't have great 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.840 relationships with food, right, so fasting doesn't have to be 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.240 just on food. So I was, you know, we had 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:36.320 the moment of like song and then prayer. It's like, 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:38.560 think about what you need to fast, and I'm like, 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.479 all right, I'm like I had wine. I'm like, oh no, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:44.880 I'm like I haven't drink in a week, you know. 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.880 So I know everyone's like, wow, great job, thank youre 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:57.760 longer than that before. Yeah, you're doing nine months. I 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:04.320 was trying to give you a week. I tried. So 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.280 I was just sitting there and I was just like 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:09.880 and I started to cry, and I was like, where's 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.400 the cry from? And it obviously involves Mike, but it's 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:17.480 the control of that, Like, it's the control around all 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:19.880 of it, trying to control his emotions, trying to control 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.680 how he feels about me, trying to control my outcome 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:25.800 of my relationship, trying to control and it was just 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.359 like control, like I have to, like And so I 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.680 brought that to Amy yesterday and I had like this 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.960 mental breakdown with her because I was just like, I 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.200 am terrified when I don't have control because I've never 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.719 felt in control. Because it's like when my relationship, I 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:42.240 never felt control because I'm like, who knew when Mike 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.360 was gonna cheat on me? You know, would would not 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:52.479 and not. Catherine, Sorry, are we winding down every week? 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:58.040 I didn't say it. So yeah, So it's like, you know, 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.400 I was always like and I had to and I did. 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.440 I became controlling in that relationship because I was so 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.400 king terrified. Of course you were of him cheating again, 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.840 and you know, of course, and so that that meet 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:14.720 my stronghold on him, of course made him cheat more. Well, 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.640 I wouldn't say that that made him cheat. I'm not 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.280 gonna let you do that. It was probably a portion 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:21.320 of it. Oh that's not a fair Yeah, I think 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.520 that's the fair thing to say. Now, you might have 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:28.600 tried to deal with that with control. You tried to 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.520 deal with him cheating with control, but that didn't cause 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.520 him to do anything. He already did it. He makes 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.000 his own choices. I still struggle with that piece. I 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.400 just want to keep on mind. Yeah, thank you for 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.040 thank you. I'm not going to let I'm not going 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.400 to let that be about something you did. But if 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.360 I didn't do what you're right, you're right, and then 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:49.800 he just like a period at the end of the 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:59.960 time period and we're done commas. Yeah, okay, so that's 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.920 and so then the next relationship now with you know, 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:04.760 or just anything in general. I'm just like and then 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.520 we start talking about food because eating is always on 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.000 my case, like you need to eat, you need to eat, 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:10.960 And then I'm like no, and I'm like, oh my god. 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.240 The last time I was controlling food was when I 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.880 was so terrified about the mic stuff. And so then 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:18.360 I'm now controlling what I eat because that's what I 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:24.840 can control. We are best friends for a reason. Okay, Okay, 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.320 so yeah, so it's like I won't eat so for example, 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.320 I won't eat what he says to eat because I'm like, 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.480 I get to control what I eat. I didn't know. 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:35.880 That's interesting. So that's what like sat in with me, 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:42.040 but put your foot down with the cheeseburger, like healthy 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.079 or not HEALTHI or whatever it is, or if it's 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:48.880 just unhealthy, no anything as Yeah, okay, that's what I 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:56.080 was energy. But unfortunately it's very unhealthy habits that I 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.160 have right now with food. So I'm learning because like 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.559 he wants me to eat healthier, you know, not healthier. 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.640 He wants me to not eat bars my entire meals. Yeah, well, yeah, 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:05.480 you do feed yourself like a hamster to pet store. 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.920 I mean there's eat. I don't want people to think 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.840 thank you. Definitely eat and you eat often, you eat 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.480 every two hours or whatever. But I think what he's 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.720 trying to get you to do is eat. Okay, well 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:18.560 lately I haven't been doing that, and that's the problem. 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.760 Okay he used to, so I used to. Yeah, and 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.000 so now that's somewhere and so now because I've lost 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.160 control of got it, got it Mike and the marriage 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.880 and new situations that I've gone back to, like not 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:37.599 being healthy. Is that more recent or since the divorce, 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:39.320 because I think I'm now out of control, Like I 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.280 can't control. I don't know what's going to happen in 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.640 a new relationship. So it's like a so I kind 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.640 of had that like breakthrough and then with the church 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:50.199 thing and then so yeah, it's but it's like I'm 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.880 trying to fast control. Well, we're going to do it. 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:59.840 How do we do it? So every time I approach, 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:02.920 we have I know, someone to pray. Someone needs to 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:07.120 know what that sounds when you're trying to because okay, 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:08.920 I have to at least have my protein after I 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.000 run there we go, Yeah, no, it's good. You need 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:13.920 your protein shape so when you're trying to control a situation, 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.520 you are to stop and pray because we're not in control. 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.840 But I do that too, and then I get exhausted, 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:25.239 like a different kind of tired, because I it's exhausting 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:31.120 trying to control things, and it's it's tiring. I can't 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.120 do it. So every time now I just go I 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.360 say out loud, like I trust you God. Mm hmm. 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.199 So what Amy told me, what might she might tell 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.240 you to is to write it, start like combined sessions 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:47.080 and save a little or a little like I know 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.880 what a bogo is, but is there like or something, 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:55.600 because is the problem sermon and getting one twenty every 0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:00.319 three times a week. Amy's like, yeah, actually I've heard 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.559 this one before. Oh bless her. Okay, I want to 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.200 I want to get back on this topic. Said She 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:11.120 basically said, write it like I have it, basically like 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:12.520 how you feel now and how you feel at the 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.679 end of the month when you have released some of 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.679 that control. So it's like situations with like Mike, like today, 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.200 like I had a situation with him when he came 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.040 to the door, and it's like I wanted to say something, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.320 but it's like I just prayed, and like, I can't 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:27.120 control his reactions, nor can I control how he speaks. 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.840 So I'm just gonna good for you and I and 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.520 I felt it, I prayed, I released it, and now 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:35.160 I'm going to write about it because by the end 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:36.880 of it, hopefully it's not going to have that start 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.839 like that hold on us, the heaviness. And I want 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:41.920 to go to your control in your session. But first 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:44.880 I'm going to take a break because we've got to 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.880 talk sex, and we've got to talk the city, Sex 0:11:47.920 --> 0:12:00.760 in the City. You're back, I all right. So we're 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.440 gonna have Candice Bushnell on. UM. She basically is the 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.160 Carrie Bradshaw she has. She's the one who wrote Sex 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.680 in the City, she had the column, um, and so 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.280 we're going to have her on to talk about all 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:17.440 things sexy city, how it started and um, let's get 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.920 her on him on. Now are you got hi love? 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.920 How are you good? How are you? I'm good? I'm Janna. 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.400 This is Catherine, This is Kristen, or I should say 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:33.880 like she's you. She dressed like Carrie. It's intense. Is 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.400 it too soon, Candice? Is it too soon to show you? 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:43.720 My God? That's crazy? She's showing, although I don't think 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:51.200 I've ever actually worn it to too. No, No, yeah, 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.080 plenty of times. Yeah, I don't think I have ever 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.080 worn one. Well, great, I've got bike shorts under have 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:58.679 you ever heard those? Because I can take this right 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.000 off and we can just start over. My short time 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.839 were all the time? Great, So let me just reintroduce 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.720 myself and I kidding, Oh my god. I did wear 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:13.400 a two two once to one of the one of 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.560 the premiers. I can't remember which one. Maybe it was 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:20.040 the third, maybe it was the third season. I love 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:24.960 it gave permission. I've never been coordinated like some of 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.640 my friends on this couch. I mean, I'm in I 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.880 just ran and I'm in sweatpants and running shoes. I'm 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.120 just saying, like you're coordinated. You used to do figure 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:37.760 skating that color coordinating. I was like no, no, like 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.599 as a runner. It was this gave me the permission. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.800 That was the permission slip I needed to wear a 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:45.880 two two that I would have another I would have 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.199 not otherwise been in ever in my life because I'm 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.240 not a ballerina. So okay, we have to talk sex 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.000 in the city because obviously, I mean, it's a show 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.880 I am obsessed with. Um, continue to watch. I mean 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.000 when I was on the road, my band guys would 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.640 hear like the open credits and nearly up there she 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.520 goes like she's watching Sex in the City again. Um, 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.440 but for you, like where like you started? When did 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:15.360 you start writing your columns? Probably before you were born? Um? No, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:20.400 girl thirty eight? Like it's a thing, which is why 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.880 when I went out for The Carry Diaries, because I'm 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.040 also an actress, I was like, I'm way too old, 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.560 Like I can't take that. I love The Carry Diaries 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:34.400 so good. It was such a cute show. I don't understand, 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.680 like why it didn't continue on did you watch it? 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.720 I did watch it, and it didn't continue. I know why. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.600 I don't know. We need to know. Do you want 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:48.200 to bring it back? I know a great carry right 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.360 all you know. I think they've all grown up now, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:57.280 so whatever. But your auditioned for the Carry Diaries, that's great. 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.080 I did it was it was quite a long time ago. 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:00.800 But yeah, I mean I was I was too old. 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.200 It's it's all good, no no hard feelings, It's totally fine. 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.040 But this is like, this is a good time for 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.200 me to tell you I wasn't actively participating in the cast. 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:16.680 Remember if I was, I was a lot in Lipstick Jungle. 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:21.080 It just depends. Yeah, I had so Rob. I was 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.040 on on One Tree Hill, and so Rob who was 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.240 on Lipstick Jungle. And I loved that show. And I 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.720 guess I was so angry that that one didn't continue 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.040 on too. Do you say, oh, that was just so. 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.000 It was steamy, it was fun, it was like sexy. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.080 I loved all of it. And I love those actresses, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.840 I love the stories. I think it was weirdly, it 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.720 was a little bit ahead of its time because mhm. 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.240 It was a little too feminist in a way, because 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:52.080 that was the time when when you know, it was 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.520 all about getting married and marrying Mr Big and remember 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.240 all these actresses were saying like, I'm not a feminist, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.040 So it was a little ahead of its time. The 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.800 idea of you know, the girl Boss women Boss people 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:12.240 were still like, oh they must be bitches night, bitches night, 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.400 Welcome to Line podcast. I love my agent. My agents 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.720 always like if I had five cents for every time 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.040 someone called me a bitch, I'd be rich. I that's 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.920 always like so annoying because it's like I remember My 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:25.840 ex used to be like, you know, you're you're too 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.000 hard like but you can talk that it same way 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.640 and it's fine for you. But yet I'm bitchy like 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.320 I just it just doesn't I don't. I don't like 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.880 that at all. But who reached out to you to 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.880 have sex in the City like actually become a show 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:46.480 from your column? A lot of people? Really, yes, a 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:54.120 lot of people. HBO was always after me and New 0:16:54.240 --> 0:17:00.880 Line and Fine Line and ABC. So there were probably 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:07.119 there were at least three movie companies that wanted to 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.119 buy it. And I did go out to l A. 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.679 But you know, they really did. They didn't have a clue. 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.680 Like at that time New York and l A. The 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.399 sensibilities were so different. Like sex in the City, it 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:28.960 could never ever come out of a writer's room. There's 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:33.040 no way, like writers could ever come up with that. 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.720 TV writers could never ever come up with sex in 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:42.040 the City. HBO was interested and ABC was interested. And 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:47.480 in that time I had also met Darren Starr. How 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.159 did you guys meet? We met because I did a 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:55.480 story about him for No magazine because he was doing 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.879 Central Park West. I don't know if you guys from 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.280 over that show I remember it. I didn't want it 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:08.359 lasted for one season and it was Mariel Yeah, Mariel 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:15.240 hemy white um. And and then he decided to do 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:19.000 so I met him and and then he said he 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:23.000 wanted to do Sex in the City. And I Darren 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.320 was somebody who I knew. I've been hanging out with 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:29.520 him a bit. I'd shown him New York and he 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.720 did Melrose Place in nine O two one oh, which 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.520 were huge, and we just had a really good time 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:38.760 and Darren had a great sense of humor and we 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:44.280 were laughing about everything. So I thought, well, I'll sell 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.880 it to Darren Starr, which was actually a really smart 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:54.000 thing to do now that I looked back, because you know, 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.919 when you sell something to TV, you still have to 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:02.719 find that producer m hm. You know, it's like a 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.080 whole deal making a TV show. You know, there's like 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.800 the showrunner and the producer. That's the person who wants 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.160 to be on the set every day. I don't want 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:12.880 to be on the set every day. Did you want 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:14.560 to be in the writing room at all? Like, did 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:19.400 you did you feel like Territorial was in the writing 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:27.280 room for the first two seasons A bit. It's not 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.320 you know, it's like I was a novelist. Being a 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:37.879 TV writer was not considered. And I mean, first of all, 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.280 it was something that I never even knew that that 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:48.040 was a job when I was younger. Um, and you know, 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:54.639 it's not as it wasn't quite as cool as you know, 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.480 being a novelist. I still don't think it is. So 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.520 there's my two cents where you can't us. I still 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.920 think you're the o G. So I read and I 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:05.840 do have like some sort of mom dementia at this 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:07.560 point because I have two little kids and so really 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:09.280 I don't have any of my together. But I do 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.000 have this question. I thought I read somewhere that when 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:16.919 it started, you were I hope I'm not just just 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.600 love me through this, but were you with Cary Bradshaw, 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.200 your alter ego, Like you wrote it as a carry Bradshaw, 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:26.760 like that's you. But no, I when I was writing 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:32.160 the column my parents, I think I'd written like one 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:35.000 or two columns. I went to a sex club and 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.960 I just did a one woman show which was called 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:39.960 is There Still Sex in the City? And this is 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:43.520 one of the stories I tell how I created sex 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:49.520 in the City. Um, why I invented Carrie Bradshaw. And 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.720 the reason is that I went to a sex club 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.239 and then my parents called up and said, oh, we're 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.360 gonna read. We've taken a subscription to the New York Observer, 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.640 and my parents are really conservative. They were really conservative, 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:06.000 So I was like, you know, I always have to 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.600 worry about what my parents think. I mean, I feel 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.000 like there's so much more I probably would have done 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.120 and written, if you know, not for my parents, who 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.560 were very judgy. So I didn't know what to do. 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.359 So I just came up with this name, Carrie Bradshaw. 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:28.240 That was my alter ego. So I I was basically 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:33.680 the narrator and Carrie Bradshaw was my alter ego, so 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:40.000 and I made her kind of I don't know, I 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:42.800 just I had sort of fun with the character. I 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.560 felt like the character didn't necessarily have to be nice. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:52.560 So were the girls then, like Charlotte, Miranda, Samantha not 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.760 your They were like, were they also loosely based off 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:59.439 of just the friends around you? Is what I have? Yes, 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:03.440 but I had a lot of friends, so in the 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.880 book there are they're like way more women. But when 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:11.200 you make a TV show, the first thing you do 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:16.240 is well, we have to we can't have more than 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.240 four characters. We can't have put more than four women 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:23.880 because the audience won't keep track of them. And obviously 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.480 they have more women on Real Housewives. But you know 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.919 that's just a sort of standard TV formula. Sure, And 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:31.840 did some of the characters kind of fold into each 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:35.040 other then, like some of your book characters kind of 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:40.840 get adopted by the four main Yes. And in the book, 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:44.520 one friend would say a couple of different things to me, 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:47.400 and I would make them into two people to describe 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:52.400 people's identity, et cetera. So I'm curious, are you watching 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:54.639 the news the New And just like that, are you 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:59.280 watching the New I've watched a couple of episodes. How 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:04.320 do you feel about I think it's very Sarah Jessica 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:08.119 Parker and Michael Patrick King, and I think it's very 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:14.440 very in line with their creativity, their idea of what's good. 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.600 And I feel like my sensibility is the TV show 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:23.560