WEBVTT - The Dual Power Gathering! 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:09.280 It's well it it is the podcast. It could happen here, 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:12.200 but for once, it is not about the world falling apart. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.680 It is entirely about putting it back together again. Uh. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.120 And and joining me to talk about putting it back 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:21.520 together again is zero of the other people who are 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:25.520 normally on this podcast, But I'm joined by Shannon and 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.160 John Horonymus, who are part of the team of Organized 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.040 Is working on the Dual Power Gathering. Shannon, John, Welcome, 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:36.080 Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. Hey. So, I 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.279 guess the first part of the Dual Power Gathering is 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.519 dual power, and I think we should walk through what 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.159 actually that is, in what our sort of visions for 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.840 it look like, because man, I know we've talked about 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.440 this on the show before, but that was a very 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.320 very long time ago, but which I mean like probably 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.680 only like seven months, but you know, feel it feels 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:02.120 like ancient history. So yeah, I guess do you two 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.480 want to talk about what dual power is and how 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.840 how do you do? Yeah? Sure, I'm gonna stop trying 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.280 to think about what happened seven months ago and I'm 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.319 trying to Okay, you said that, I was just like, 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:21.600 oh wow, Okay, no, never mind. Um, So dual power, John, 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.080 how about I go ahead and share with our audience 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.200 what is sort of the poetic language that we have 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.760 up on the website from the organizers, and then we 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:37.400 can kind of like break it down and talk about it. Um. 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:42.399 That works for me, all right? So of the website 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.319 texts such dual power is a way to imagine the 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:49.320 moment just before our movements converge, as the possible becomes 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.520 the actual, when the seeds of social transformation we have 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.960 sown for generations bloom, when the old world begins to 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:59.240 wither and new worlds can be born. Is a way 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.400 of thinking about how we got to that moment and 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:05.200 beyond it. Dual power is the project of building self determination, 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:09.760 mutual aid, solidarity, and direct democracy in our communities by 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.600 creating spaces that empower us all and from which you 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:19.080 do in mansipatory institutions can emerge. It's a pretty yeah. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.799 So what does that mean? What does that mean? Um? 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.280 First off, I want to say like a shout out 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:31.680 to a lot of people have been working on this 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:36.440 vision of what dual power is for years and years now, 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:41.080 and that includes uh a lot of groups. Um, that 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.480 we are either in conversation with or have been taking 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:50.200 inspiration from UM. One of the biggest, I think most 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:55.079 developed groups that's doing that work is cooperation Jackson Jackson 0:02:55.160 --> 0:03:02.120 Jacks Mississippi UM and UH. I think the goal is 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.840 people went up. Oftentimes when people do like here dual power, 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.400 if they don't have any other UM context for it, 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:12.640 but they are maybe from the left. They've heard about 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:17.520 this moment in the Russian Revolution when there were these 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:22.440 two competing like uh, you know, basis of power in 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:27.959 like Russian society while they're undergoing this revolutionary change, and 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:32.080 uh Lenin wrote like a pamphlet about it, calling it 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:33.960 the dual power, and looked at it as like a 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.680 thing that needed to be like overcome by you know, 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:45.880 workers in Russia UM too, like establish a workers state UM, 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.080 which they kind of outlined in a book called State 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:52.360 and Revolution. And but when we look at what they 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.560 were describing, we kind of look at this as a 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:59.680 thing that emerges in any time when there's a social 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.320 revel kind of unfolding in a society where you have 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:12.920 various classes who are like changing like social relations, workers, peasants, UM, 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.039 different groups of people who like have like a class 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:19.680 they have come together around a class interest and overthrowing 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:24.200 their oppression, and they have to go through stages of 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:31.320 building their collective power their collective identity there, and they're 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:37.960 kind of like overall strategic movement in a particular direction, UM, 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:42.839 and they create this tension between the existing state order 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:48.240 and a newly emerging like uh like social revolution that's 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:53.240 like overthrown, challenging UH and overthrowing that like UM power. 0:04:53.880 --> 0:05:00.040 So that being said, we want to ground that. We 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:01.800 want to ground that a little bit in a like 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:06.200 less historicized context or whatever. We could say, maybe that's 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:10.200 the work that we're doing to build up the institutions 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:14.760 and relational structures that we need to care for ourselves 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:19.320 in each other UM as we moved through uh sort 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:25.560 of like different states of like institutional organization in the society. Right. 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.040 So when we're thinking about how do we meet our 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.479 basic needs together in ways that are not dependent on 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.919 the pressive institutions that we're trying to overthrow, we're talking 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:39.800 about dual power. Yeah, it's like any time working class folks, 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.680 And it's like in a broad definition communities people who 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.840 aren't necessarily working but like depend on like taking care 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.160 of each other or who do the work of reproducing 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:55.400 every you know, society, UM basically build their own independent 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.240 power like uh to chance, like to be able to 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.760 fight back, to challenge the you know, the status quo. 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.200 So like there's a lot of things they're kind of 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:10.480 percolating that we've been like that have been happening in 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:16.240 North America that takes inspiration from areas of the global South, UM, 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:21.159 but also our homeown homegrown like traditions UM. So that 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.440 could being anything from like your local mutual aid network 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:29.760 to uh your local tenant union to like a rank 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:35.320 and file UM union of like Amazon workers or teachers 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:42.039 or care workers, UM. You know whose existence puts them 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:47.840 in conflict with the state capital UM and like patriarchy, 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:54.000 settler colonial relations um. You know, like indigenous water protectors UM, 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:58.920 folks who are building up places where the more developed 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:05.240 it becomes, the more it kind of built its own momentum. 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.680 And you have spaces that are like autonomous fully like 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:14.880 autonomous regions from like state power and to begin to 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:19.400 like pick apart at capital and like reconfigure are like 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.480 relations of like how we make things and do things 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.760 and take care of each other in like fundamental ways, 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.520 and we have lots of beautiful examples of this from 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.200 the like organizing history not even that long ago, and 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.440 people will be familiar with some of the Black Panther 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:38.040 programs or some of the programs that were integrated into 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:42.000 the farm workers movement, and some of the programs that 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.640 were put together by the anarchi feminists who were trying 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:51.080 to support women's bodily autonomy and secure abortion rights through 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.480 things like mutual aid healthcare and and things like that. 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.880 So we'll see there's like a lot of really beautiful 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:02.720 examples of this work happening over time around successful organizing movements. 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.520 And we're all really excited about what's going on now 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.440 and we want to see that just to sort of 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.120 come together and a flourish I think it's important to 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.000 think about do a power or something that's like I 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:14.440 don't know, like I I think there's a lot of 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.840 people who look at it as sort of like dual 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:18.640 power is planting a garden, and it's like, I mean 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.080 sort of yes, but like there's you know, they're there. 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.040 There's there's sort of two components of it right there. 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.240 There's this sort of there's a defensive component and an 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.840 offensive component. There's a component that's about taking care of 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.840 each other, and there is a component that is attack. Right, 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:33.760 there's there's there's a component that is the people who 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:35.640 are preventing us from taking care of each other need 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:40.280 to be stopped from doing that. And so yeah, I 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:44.920 think I think it's important to, yeah, think about different 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:49.400 kinds of like, different kinds of institutions that you would 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.480 not normally think of as doing the same thing, as 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.080 being part of the same struggle. And yeah, I guess 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.680 that brings us to what YouTube and a lot of 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.400 other people have been working on. For god, it's been 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.880 this been in the work for a long time. Yeah, 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.079 which which which is the which is the this uh 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.600 dual power gathering? And yeah, I guess you sul want 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:16.480 to talk about what what that is because yeah, yeah, well, 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.440 you know, we've all been sitting around the past couple 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:22.120 of years dreaming about being together, and so I think 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.040 this is kind of the fruit of that dream. Right 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.000 coming up at the end of July, UH, we're inviting 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.640 everyone out to the Indiana Dunes for a camping trip, 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:37.240 uh and during that time, we're hoping to see a 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:45.319 collaboratively produced event that incorporates everything that the participants can 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:49.880 bring to it, which we know far exceeds the uh 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.960 sort of even the scope vision of the organizing body. 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:58.320 So we're really trying to um, just create a space 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.120 for people to come together. We are interested in these 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.960 ideas who have various levels of experience working with it 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.720 that will be valuable to everybody, from people who are 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:10.800 brand new to this stuff and just want to learn 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:12.760 more about it too, people who have have been doing 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:17.480 it for years, for decades even um And yeah, that's 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:21.080 sort of the the underlying ambition of it is to 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:23.080 get people together in space. You know, a lot of 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.040 us have been to these kinds of events before and 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.320 felt like the most important thing that we got out 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.240 of that was the relationships that we were able to 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.640 build and the people that we were able to meet 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.840 that we could then carry on ongoing dialogues with, and 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:41.840 that we could find inspiration uh in in those dialogues 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.280 and in those connections that would birth new projects that 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.839 you know, we don't yet know are even possible. And 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:50.480 so this is kind of, at least for me, like 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.920 that's the really important and exciting force of the of 0:10:54.000 --> 0:11:00.800 the plan. Yeah, yeah, I think that why they're the 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.240 Some of the things about this I think are really 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.040 like it's been like really a collaborative effort to come 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.120 up with this thing, Like we had the discussions about 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:12.959 this is a thing that needs that we thought need 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.719 to happen, because at the end of like by the 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.280 end of the middle of one, we're like, look, clearly, 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:24.040 we've all been through so many different experiences over the 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:29.240 last ten, fifteen, twenty years. At this point some of 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:33.240 us are getting to be elders, and um, we uh 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:37.960 and we need to like, um, it feels like it's 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.960 now is an excellent a really great time to have 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:46.439 like a actual conversation about where we where we're coming, 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.320 where we are, where we're coming from, and where we're 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:55.520 going and how do we translate these experiences into like 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:03.040 networks of like trusting relationships and sharing u a sharing 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.760 of all this knowledge. Is like we need to debrief 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.760 like the like the past five years I think in particular, 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.280 have been like it's like crammed. It feels like, you know, 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.679 the whole saying like some some years nothing happens, and 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:20.480 some you know, in some months decades happen paraphrasing or whatever, 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.079 and it's like so much stuff has come. We've all 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.000 gone through so many things and come to like, uh, 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:32.440 and we're seeing people who didn't have like maybe a 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.200 stance on various political things or are like seeing their 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:40.200 communities torn apart by like the real lived experience of 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.960 like climate change and wants to and need to do 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:44.920 something about it. That sort of thing like bringing in 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.920 people who have lots of experience with people who have 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:52.720 maybe are just now figuring things out and really kind 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.400 of like musing and taking this as an opportunity to 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.720 maybe to generate new knowledge so that we're going to 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.840 like kind of like clarifying what we've gone through and 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:09.520 where we're heading, and um get people like in the 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.400 same space who like might as a like I do 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.080 a lot of union ship, So I'm always thinking about 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.080 how do I get like rank and file union radicals 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:23.240 in the same space as like a like a neighborhood 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.040 abolitionist or a tenant union organizer or a community land 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:31.400 trust and getting all these like different groups because together 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.720 and then like thinking about how they overlap in support 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.200 and build off of each other. Because we I think 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.680 the operating theory of many of people who are involved 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:46.560 in this is that every context is different where we're organizing, 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.360 but many there are many kind of principles that can 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:54.800 kind of translate across context, but the context will shape 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.440 very like like the I was just talking with one 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.720 of the organizers who's like twenty minutes away over in 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.120 northwest Indiana and you're like in Gary, and you know 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.280 those areas and their context for building something like a 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.800 an ecosystem too. Power organizations is going to be very 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.360 different from my context where I am like down the 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:22.320 street from this big global center of capital that's like 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.760 University of Chicago and like, and it's doing all in 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:31.360 my neighborhoods being gentrified by two billion dollar corporations and 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.160 I've got a big nurse union, whereas they're in the 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.720 middle of like a neighbor community that's being actively divested 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.880 and destroyed like just like eating away at by like 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.680 because capital just pulling out and has been doing that 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.800 for basically as long as you've all been. At the 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.680 same time, y'all are dealing with the same like biosphere 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.760 complications and climate change implications, and so yeah, we're thinking 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.840 about the ways in which like the kinds of affiliations 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:02.800 that makes sense for us to be successful in our 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.280 projects are like, you know, they're not just They're not 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.000 just local, they're not just national, they're not just continental. 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.880 There's like a lot of different things that are going 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:14.400 on there. And that's the only way for us to 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:18.520 really like sort out who we need to be in 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.840 coaligion with on any particular issue is to know everybody, 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.080 uh and to try to understand better there They're specific 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.760 contexts and their specific experiences. And I think there's like, 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.760 you know, I think, you know, to John's point about, 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:34.760 you know, how much has changed in the last two, 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.160 you know, handful of years or whatever. I think one 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.400 thing that we've all come away from the pace of 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.440 change is pretty humbling, you know. Um, I think we 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.280 definitely all we gotta we got We took in a 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.320 bit of the humility around around that what is it 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.160 that we actually need to do? We are definitely not 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.520 prepared for it, you know. And it doesn't matter how 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.520 many decades we've been doing this organizing work. We just 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:02.760 are not ready for how quickly things are changing right now. 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.520 And the only way for us to get ready is 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.400 to make sure that we show up and strengthen the 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.440 networks of people that we can rely on to produce 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:16.480 kind of positive interdependence um as we move forward with 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:22.720 the continued chaos that is the contemporary world. Yeah, I mean, 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.120 and then part of this is also like thinking about 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.280 because the way this is structured, this isn't just like 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.239 a series of panel discussions where we've like the organizers 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.400 have curated like you you're gonna listen to you know, uh, 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.000 so and so who's like, you know, a prominent tenant 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.240 organizer so and so. It is like a prominent like 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:46.600 uh like in like climate change direct action work. Like 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.480 the goal is is that we like specifically chose a 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:55.200 format and like officially it's called like like an unconference, 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:57.400 but the way I think of it is it's like 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.440 which which comes out of tech, which I find kind 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.119 of irritating, But that doesn't But the core of the 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.280 idea of the thing is is that we're coming into 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.920 this space in generating new knowledge, not necessarily sitting there 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.840 and receiving a bunch of knowledge from people who designate 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.720 as like movement leaders or experts. That doesn't mean that 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.520 people who don't have a lot of experience and a 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.639 lot of like skills aren't going to be there. It 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.199 just means that we're going to be because one of 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.240 my things is popular education, coming from the tradition of 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:36.320 like Palo Fair and like um, everybody learning together is 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.680 like it's like taking those principles and kind of like 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:44.520 doing them in parallel in various circles. Where there will 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.080 be a circle here of like cooperative organizers or people 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:49.679 who want to get coops off the ground. Will be 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.920 a circle here of people doing land trust work, will 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:54.879 be a circle here of like unionists. There will be 0:17:54.920 --> 0:18:00.560 a circle here of people doing like abolition work, and 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:03.760 or interest are people who are interested in all those things, 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.160 are getting those sorts of things off the ground. And 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:11.040 as they work through like a like they present tell stories, 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.480 share ideas, do debriefs on like the various things that 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.680 we've all been going through over you know whatever, how 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.560 far back our timeline is depending on how far which 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:27.359 elders decided to attend UM. But then taking that knowledge 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.040 with our facilitators and then being like, you know what, 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.480 I think that these two conversations are happening kind of 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.520 like in parallel would be better if they were merged 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.440 together and beginning to kind of like build that sort 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:42.159 of like and so the idea isn't necessarily come away 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.040 with like a pre like we're not setting up like 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:50.160 a like a predetermined set of conclusions for people we 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.640 believe and based off of we've been having monthly community 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.000 calls for people who are going to be attending. All 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.760 the different groups of folks who will be coming to 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.000 this is going to be I think, like the depth 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.520 of experience is going to be really phenomenal. Um and 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.239 people coming from We definitely have people confirmed who are 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:12.320 coming from Canada, people who we may be having folks 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:17.119 with experience the indigenous communities is uh in Mexico, we 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:22.280 maybe have We're fairly confident we're gonna have people who 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.080 are like just come from areas like northern Syria and 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:31.280 iraq Um and taking all these different ideas and experiences 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:36.639 and then generating next like coming to new conclusions, maybe 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.120 unexpected conclusions or things that we didn't quite that we 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.680 weren't anticipating, but maybe asking new questions right Like this 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:46.879 is a kind of intended to be a pre figure 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.800 of space for engaging with things where we don't know 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:52.920 what the right answer is. And I think we all 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:54.399 need to release sit with the fact that we do 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:58.520 not have like a clearer right solution into the problems 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:01.600 that we're facing right now. Like I've been kind of 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:03.720 pulling on the slogan a little. It's like no gods, 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.800 no masters, no right answers, you know, just like get 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:11.359 used to it. We need to be more creative and 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.080 we need to be more open to experimentation. And you know, 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.520 there's just a lot of there's a lot of stuff 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.000 that's going to be coming at us fast. And you know, 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.280 this is a we we we hope this can be 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.920 a space where we can kind of take some time 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.439 to slowly get square with what it is we're going 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:29.520 to have to be thinking about, even if we don't 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:35.280 know what to do exactly yet. So I had I 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.879 had a really good experience where I was listening to 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.480 like one of the like a person who came out 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:45.560 of act Up giving a talk in my neighborhood. And 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.399 she was saying, because we had had questions, is this 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:51.320 going to be about a lot of theory? Are we're 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:56.200 gonna be talking about a lot of abstract stuff? And um, 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.679 this organizer was like, you know, act Up had no theory, 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:06.080 right they did, they took action and the theory followed afterwards, 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.440 and so the idea that we're like necessarily having coming 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.880 to this with like the right answers already figured out 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.239 is just not like something that I think it's going 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.680 to be a super generative discussion. The idea of coming 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:24.880 up with like coming up with orientations and thinking about 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.159 like where we are heading kind of in a general sense, 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.760 and then seeing how that unfolds and builds is I 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:35.359 think a big, key, key aspect of what we're trying 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.600 to do when we come together. We'ch is not to 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:40.639 say yeah, which is not to say that there won't 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:42.679 be theory, because that's not up to us. That's up 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:47.760 to y'all. So you know, um, I probably you know, 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.800 like what I'm really interested in is having conversations about 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.399 the community mental health care, you know, And like, for me, 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.919 the theory is less interesting than you know, like talking 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:00.400 about what we actually need in the spaces that we again, 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:02.119 but that's you know, that's where I'm coming from, and 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.080 everybody else is coming at this from their own perspective too, 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.439 So I'm really excited to see what people bring to 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:09.280 that space and what we can get out of it. 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:14.320 Um by just thinking that we all are contributing something 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:17.920 constructive to that conversation. Well, and then also there's gonna 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.480 be a lot of discussions about like literal practical skills, 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:24.440 like here's how you like, here's how you uh. This 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:26.560 has always been the perennial thing. This is how you 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.240 pick a lot, This is how you uh, this is 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:33.480 how you organize comms at like at like a like 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:37.240 on a picket line. This is how you pull together 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:42.680 uh a demand letter for like a list for like tenants, 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:44.840 like you know, these are the sorts of things that 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.200 like we're gonna be talking. We're going to be doing 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:52.919 concrete skill shares, plus these discussions about our experiences and 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:56.399 sharing our stories and you know, hopefully we're going to 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:58.240 come away from this. A big goal of it is 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:03.000 to um come up with a lot of like different 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:07.600 like um just like content. We're going to be recording 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:12.480 videos and uh like audio and like also and then 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:14.960 transcribing things and writing things up and we're hoping that 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:16.639 once we're then we're gonna have a big report that 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:20.320 we can share out with people who can't attend. Yeah, 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:25.359 privacy concerns obviously considered, so yeah, for sure, Yeah, there 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.359 is a very consent is a big is a big 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:33.400 thing with us as organizers, I should help. So yeah, 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:37.840 you would think, but you know, not everyone is down 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:42.520 as you would imagine. Okay, So basically we're building a 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:45.439 perfect little utopia for like four days and you all 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:47.520 come out because we're going to fix the revolution. So 0:23:48.840 --> 0:24:03.000 kidding obviously, on on on a work on crete level, Like, 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.520 what does like a day here look like? Like? What 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:09.400 what are what? What are we doing? Oh? That's fun, 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:13.160 that's a fun question. Uh, if I may, John, Yeah, yeah, 0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:16.040 go for it. Um, what we're thinking right now basically, 0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:17.800 is it a day It looks like we get up 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:21.480 in the morning, we drink coffee, we have breakfast, and 0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.000 we have a little assembly check in to see how 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:26.680 things are going if we need to make any major adjustments, 0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:30.320 and we put up a uh sort of schedule for 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:34.399 the afternoon's events that was populated from the conversation that 0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:37.399 was happening in the evening the night before and anything 0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:40.240 that anybody wants to bring up to that schedule that 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:45.320 happened between yesterday and this morning. Uh, then we're gonna 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:49.280 roll off into um basically what would be some of 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:54.000 the kind of like things we already know for sure 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:56.560 that we wanted to see happening that we could get 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:58.600