1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Play talks 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business. 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Travis. Welcome in the newest Wins and 4 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: Losses podcast. If you haven't signed up for it yet, 5 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: to go listen to everybody else. I think you're gonna 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: love them, whether it's Jason Whitlock, whether it's Washington State 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: football coach Mike Leach, Commissioner of the Southeastern Conference Greg Sanky. 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: We're kind of intersecting the world of sports, media, politics, 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: and business and telling stories about how people ended up 10 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: where they did, the wins and losses along the way 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: for the process of their lives. And this week's guest 12 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: is Dave Reuben. He's at Reuben Report on Twitter. He's 13 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: a man of many talents. Uh and you guys may 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: have watched us together on YouTube on his show before. 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: We've had a lot of great conversations. We've met. Couple 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: of years ago during the fallout of my my comments 17 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: on CNN. Would you have ever known about me if 18 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: you hadn't seen that clip? Did you? Had you been 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: cognizant of me existing before that? I think I had 20 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: come across your name a couple of times, and I 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: don't think I was following you yet. When I saw 22 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: that moment with you and Baldwin, I was kind of like, 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: whatever is going on here? And as you know, I 24 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: am a sports guy, but just because my life has 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: gotten so busy and the politics thing has just kind 26 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: of taken over, like I just don't have as much 27 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: time for that any right, But I was like, whatever 28 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: this guy is up to? That moment was so exactly 29 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: everything that I'm talking about all the time, related to 30 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 1: free speech, related to outreach culture, related to the mob, 31 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: related to the lunacy of the media and the crantastic 32 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: programming of CNN, yes, and all of those things that 33 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: I was like, I've got to talk to this guy. 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: And then what was interesting was then when I had 35 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: you on the show, which was just within a couple 36 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: of weeks of that, um quickly I was like, whoa, 37 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: it's not just that he gets it, but we do 38 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: both occupy what I think is coming a really increasing 39 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: space of people that are desperately trying to find some 40 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: sanity here and not trying to ransack everything that is 41 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: so good about this country. So uh so, yeah, I 42 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: don't think I really knew who you were before then, 43 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: but but since then it's been incredibly beneficial for my career. 44 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: Uh And a lot of people listening right now may 45 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: have initially discovered me then. Obviously, It's not like I 46 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: hadn't been in the public arena before. But it's so 47 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: hard to cut through, you know, in general, and make 48 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: a name good or bad for yourself in such a 49 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: complicated and competitive culture. I wasn't planning on that happening, 50 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: but I definitely leaned into it. Also, the way that 51 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: they booked those shows. It's also an impossibly difficult thing 52 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: to figure out. So for example, I just told you so, 53 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: you so, we're in my studio right now, and we 54 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: just tape my show, and I totally I'm doing Tucker 55 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: Tonight ones and I go on Fox Now probably once 56 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: or twice a week. I'm not paid or anything. I'm 57 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: not a contributor. But I always find that they let 58 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: me say whatever I want. Tucker puts me on live, 59 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 1: we don't we don't do a pre interview anymore. There's 60 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: none of that. They trust me. I can say whatever 61 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: I want, I can agree with him, disagree with him. 62 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: The rest of it but then people will say, we, well, real, 63 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: but you don't go on CNN, you don't go on MSNBC, 64 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: And it's like they don't invite any right, you want 65 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: me to just I literally took a picture when I 66 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: was in New York last week. I don't know if 67 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: you saw this on Twitter. Yeah, I tweeted a picture 68 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: of a selfie sitting downstairs at the time Warner Center, 69 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: which is where CNN is upstairs that Whole Foods. Take 70 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: a picture of myself. I said, hey, I'm here, I'm 71 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: happy to come on. Yeah, you know, but they but 72 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: they don't want to. Yeah, And really that does get 73 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: to so many things that we talked about about which 74 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: way tolerance is sort of veering these things and it's 75 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: not the side that you think or that you've been 76 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: trained to think that it's going in. All right, So 77 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: I want to get into your background because one of 78 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: the things we love to do on this show is 79 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: figure out how someone ends up where they are. So 80 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: kind of a set the scene for people listening. Right now. 81 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: We're sitting in your studio and you're a Los Angeles 82 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: abode here, which is phenomenal. You do a couple of 83 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: different really popular shows on YouTube, you distribute them. You've 84 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: had a tremendous amount of success. You're working on a 85 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: book now, You've got a lot of opportunities. You just 86 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: mentioned you're going on Tucker Carlson. You've got a ton 87 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: of different media opportunities all happening at the same time, right, 88 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: Which is a good place to be on the last 89 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: time I saw you, we were in uh, Washington, d C. 90 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: And you and I and kandas Owens all went out 91 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: for dinner together Trump or the Trump Hotel whatever steakhout 92 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: the Trump Hotel steakhouse there. We had an incredible conversation. 93 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: Was an awesome time. Um, And so I want to 94 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: circle back to you grew up a where like the 95 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: very beginning, you grew up in New York is right. 96 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: I'm a true New Yorker. When people say they're New Yorkers, 97 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: there's very few actual New Yorkers. But I was born 98 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn before it was cool, ipster Brooklyn still crappy Brooklyn, 99 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: where my dad and my grandparents were from. UH. When 100 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: I was three years old, we moved out to Long Island, 101 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: which was that was the dream for if you were 102 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: a city, New York City or Brooklyn or Queen's person. 103 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: The dream was you could move to Long Island, maybe 104 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: to Westchester or from suburban part of Jersey. My folks 105 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: moved this out to little town called Sayasset, which is 106 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: basically smacked dead in the middle of Long Island, Exit 107 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: forty three on the l I A and uh So. 108 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: I grew up in Long Island. I went to college 109 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: in upstate New York, Sunny Binghamton. My dad was very 110 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: clear when I was applying for colleges. I wanted to 111 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: go to Syracuse because I wanted to be a sports 112 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: bro ester. I wanted to be on ESPN, and Marv 113 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: Albert went there, and Bob Costa went there too, and 114 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: all those guys went there. And my dad said, if 115 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: you go to a Sunny school meeting an in state 116 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: state University of New York school, we'll pay for it 117 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: because it's about nine grand women a year. And he said, 118 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: if you go to a private school or at a 119 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: state it's on you. I think maybe he was going 120 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: to make up the differences. You know, he would have 121 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: taken care of the nine and then I would have 122 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: had pay over. And Syracuse at the time was about 123 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: twenty five grand it's probably something like sixty girls. And 124 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: I remember thinking, I was like, I would love to 125 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: go there. I want to be on Sports Center. It 126 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: was the heyday of Sports Center. Kilbourne was was new 127 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: and fresh and funny before crazy before, but yeah, he 128 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: was great him and damn pack. That thing was amazing. 129 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: I loved every moment of it because it was funny, 130 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: it was edgy, it was rever ir reverend. But basically 131 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: I was like, well, I can either go to college 132 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: for free and hopefully figure out a path if I 133 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: was even thinking about it that much at seventeen years old, 134 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: or I can go to this place but then have 135 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars worth of debt. If I had 136 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: only known now that the Democrats, you know, pay off 137 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: my debt, maybe I would have done it. But and 138 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: then I lived after that. I lived in Manhattan pretty 139 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: much right out of college after a year back with 140 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: my with my folks. Lived in Manhattan for about fifteen 141 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: years and that's when I started doing stand up and 142 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: all that, and lived there until February when I moved 143 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: to l A. And this is like Hotel California. You 144 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: can get in, but you can never get out, alright, 145 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: so that is a that's an awesome run through. Now 146 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: at Sunni Bingam, what did you major in and how 147 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: would you describe your academic performance while there? Yeah, I 148 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: majored in political science. So I like to say that 149 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro and I are basically the only two POLYCIGN 150 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: majors that actually use their degree outside degree um. But 151 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: I remember that most of my political science classes, everything 152 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: that we were taught, it was like, but none of 153 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: this works, right. We really was like that, like very yeah, 154 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: like they but they'd be saying these things. They would 155 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: be saying these things about this is how the government's 156 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: supposed to work, in separation of powers and all the things. 157 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: But but they would always veer at the end towards 158 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: but none of it really works this way, you know. 159 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: And but I I didn't have you know, a lot 160 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: of people I think have sort of or younger kids now, 161 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: Like when I go to colleges now, I meet these 162 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: kids and even younger high school kids who are so passionate, 163 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: so driven. When I think that that a college kid 164 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: is coming up to me and going, WHOA, you know, 165 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: I just read Jordan Peterson's book watching your Show, and 166 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: I listened to Sam Harris talk about atheism and Joe 167 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: Rogan and that, and that they're putting so much investment 168 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: in their in their intellectual worth. It's incredible. I mean, 169 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: I truly I spent four years of college. I was 170 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: smoking pot. I was pot. I was smoking pot, playing 171 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: video was playing basketball top video games. Well, I was 172 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: playing all the e A sports games right then. So 173 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: it was like NBA Live and NHL nineties, So we 174 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: are close to the same, like basically the college like 175 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: the video game that the sports like. So you love basketball? 176 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: Basketball is my real sports. So yeah, basketball in your 177 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: in your office here, so you would you play intermiroal 178 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: basketball and everything else. I played every league that you 179 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: could possibly play. And my one regret, you know, I 180 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: really don't have regrets in life because most because I'm 181 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: in a good place now and I view the mistakes 182 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: or whatever as things that ultimately ended up getting here. 183 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: My one regret is that I didn't pick up basketball earlier, 184 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: because because I was really good for for a while. 185 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm about five eleven, relatively fit, or at least in 186 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: my hate it really was, and I had a great 187 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: three point shots, finger roll. I really could play, But 188 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: I really never picked up a ball until about eight 189 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: or ninth grade. Yeah, so if I could have started. 190 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: Yeah when when when I really was good in high school, 191 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: I was already a senior and I tried out for 192 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: the team with the high school team, and the coach 193 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: of the Sea of the high school basketball team was 194 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: my years before, had been my elementary school coach, elementary 195 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: school gym teacher, And I remember him coming up to me, 196 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: Mr Myers, and saying, you know, he's like, he's like, David, 197 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: you know when you were a kid, you were this 198 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: little scrawny nothing. He's like, you've got skills now, but 199 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: you're too old. He like. It was completely honest with me, 200 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: and I sort of appreciated the honesty, but so I 201 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: really it was. It was more of a recreational thing 202 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: my whole life. Yeah, but I love basketball more than 203 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: anything else. If that would be I should be in 204 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: the w n b A. That's as for our earlier 205 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: maybe you could if that plan, if this all the 206 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: whole thing, you can be Joanna Man. Now let's go 207 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: to Uh did you live at home for a year 208 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: like a lot of people do after school? Do you 209 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: have any idea what you're gonna do? Polly Side degree 210 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: and in that year, well, I was a video game guys. 211 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: So if you love video games, what do you do? 212 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: I started working at Electronics boutique, which you may know 213 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: as game Stop. My age Basic Lisa Electronics Cutique, which 214 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: most of the people listening to this became working at 215 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: the game Stop. So I was in the Broadway Mall 216 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: and Nixville, Long Island, and I was assistant manager. And 217 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: I moved more Pokemon gold than anybody. Um so I 218 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: did that, and you know, you quickly find out I 219 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: don't even know what the hell I was thinking. I 220 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: just needed a job, you know, I needed a job. 221 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: But I remember thinking, oh, I love video games, like 222 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: I'll be a video game sales but like that seemed 223 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: like a sensible thing. But then you quickly realized, I mean, 224 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: it's just a real retail job. And like most things, 225 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you feel this way a little bit 226 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: about sports, that the more that you get in on it, 227 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: the more that you see that that dirty underside of 228 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with the things that you 229 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: love about it. So like selling video games has nothing 230 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: to do with telling people why you love playing Googles 231 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: and ghosts. For Mario brothers. You know. So, Uh. What 232 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: I started doing though, was literally the last thing that 233 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: I did in college. Senior year, I had my finals 234 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: were over already, my bags were packed, I was heading on. 235 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: I had to finish, to finish out my required courses, 236 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: I take a public speaking class. And all I had 237 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: to do was give a ten minute talk on whatever 238 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: whatever it is that I want to talk about. And 239 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: I gave a ten minute talk um about what it 240 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: was like to be in college, and I did it. 241 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: You remember Bill Cosby himself. It was his great HBO 242 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: special from did you ever see That's Chocolate Cake? And 243 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: the Dentist and all that? And I remember seeing that 244 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: as a seven year old. I remember seeing that in 245 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: my parents house in the in the living room, and 246 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: I remember being buckled over as a seven year old 247 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: in laughter. I could not it was the funniest thing 248 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: I've ever seen. The pain in my stomach. So basically 249 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: I decided to do, basically do a stand up routine 250 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: for ten minutes, and I sat just like Bill Cosby, 251 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: sitting that entire routine. Uh. And I told him what 252 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: it was like to be in college, and I talked 253 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: about hooking up and I talked about drugs, and I 254 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: talked about law of class and blah blah blah, and 255 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: half the class was laughing, and half the class was 256 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: looking at me like I was crazy. The professor completely 257 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: thought I was nuts um. But from there I was like, 258 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: whoa that that feeling of making people laugh, There's nothing 259 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: better than that. And a week later I was at 260 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: my first comedy club that I had never even been 261 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: to a stand up club. They said, you know, I 262 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: called this place in New York comedy club. They said, 263 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: if you can bring five paying customers, will throw you 264 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: on stage. And that's what I did, and I was hooked. 265 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: I was beyond hooked. I mean like a like a 266 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: drug in the best sense of it hooked. So how 267 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: often would you be doing stand up comedy? So the 268 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: first couple of years, I mean, this is very similar 269 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: to most of how comedy went back then. So comedy obviously, 270 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: like most industries, has had its up since its stands 271 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: and everything. Most people when they think of like the 272 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: golden years of comedy, you really think of like sort 273 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: of the late seventies, eighties into the very early part 274 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: of the nineties, where every comic basically from Louis Anderson 275 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: and Tim Allen and Ellen DeGeneres and Jerry Seinfeld and 276 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: Richard Lewis. Basically, you could get on the Tonight Show. 277 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: You could work the clubs for a certain amount of years, 278 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: you could perfect a five minute set, and then if 279 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: you got on the Tonight Show and Johnny liked you, 280 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: if Johnny Carson liked you, called you over the chair. 281 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: I mean everyone knows this. And he called you over 282 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: the chair, and then you were golden. You get a 283 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: sitcom and you were good to go. I mean, this 284 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: happened with Rosanne. We could do the list. This happened 285 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: with everybody when I started, so I was out of 286 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: college in eight So I started in June of ninety eight, 287 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: So it's twenty one years basically this month, um that, 288 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: but that bubble had burst, I mean majorly. They they 289 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: always looked back the night that they say the comedy 290 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: bubble versus when Andrew Dice Clay sold out Madison Square 291 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 1: Garden and basically everyone was announcing his jokes with him, 292 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, Jack and Joe went up to who and 293 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: then everyone tells the rest of the joke, you know, 294 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: and and that that was sort of symbolic of how 295 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: the whole thing crumbled, and then comedy clubs started closing 296 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: all over the place because also television made it more ubiquitous, 297 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: so you didn't have to go to clubs anymore. And 298 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's just like anything else we're we're in 299 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: industries right now that are massively changing. So um so 300 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: what happened was to go to comedy clubs or to 301 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: perform a comedy clubs. For a while, it was bringer shows. 302 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: So if you just brought a certain amount of bodies, 303 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: and right out of college of someone that grew up 304 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: in New York, I had bodies. So the first two 305 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: years I could just get people a couple of times 306 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: a week to just show up. But eventually you run 307 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: out of steam on that, and then uh so that 308 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: lasted let's say two years of a couple of nights 309 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: a week and you're working anything else or yeah, so 310 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: I was working as so I did the video game 311 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: thing for a while. I interned at the Daily Show. 312 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: Also a year a year after college, I forged a 313 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: letter from Binghamton University. I faked their letterhead and I 314 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: said that I was a professor in the communications department 315 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: or something, and I recommended myself to get to get 316 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: an internship at the Daily Show. So I'm interning at 317 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: the Daily Show during the day, which was a really 318 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: interesting time to be there because John had just taken 319 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: over from Kilbourne and I loved the Daily Show from 320 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: Kilbourne because I like Kilbourne. But it was a really 321 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: bizarre time because try to picture two public people with 322 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: different personas than those two guys. Killboard is the most smug, 323 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: you know, into himself whatever. John is the most self 324 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: deprecating personever. So the staff was in upheaval and rights 325 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: are getting fired left and right and all that um. 326 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: But then over the years of new and stand up, 327 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I did every odd job you can think. 328 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: I mean, well, first off, I cleaned up comedy clubs 329 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: and clean bathrooms and literally the lowest kind of level jobs. 330 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: I would have done anything to get on stage. And 331 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: I did do anything. I mean I I bartended, I 332 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: I worked a catering companies. I used to hand out 333 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: merchandise for promotion companies on the streets, just anything I 334 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: could do to make a buck to go by. For 335 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: one year, I had an office job at a PR 336 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: company in New York. I've literally no idea what business 337 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: they because my head wasn't there. Somehow I got the 338 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: job and I showed up, and I guess I faked 339 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: it enough to be able to keep a job. Yeah, 340 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: but I have no idea what it's a hand amount 341 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: existence at the time to write you're making like I mean, 342 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: I was making nothing. I remember what your rent was, like, 343 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: how many roommates did you have? Like so when I 344 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: finally so then I left my parents house. And then 345 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: when I had that office job, so I had, you know, 346 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: maybe I was making forty five grand or something like that. 347 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: I had a couple of roommates on on an apartment 348 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: on ninety and first, so pretty far up on the 349 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: fur East Side, um, which was a really interesting place. 350 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: Ninety and first, because try to think about New York 351 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: City for a second. So if New York's an the 352 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: subway up there is eighty six and Lex. It was 353 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: basically ninetieth that York, which is one more east than first. 354 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: So it was basically as far as you could get 355 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: from a subway in New York City. Because eighty six, 356 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: that means I had to ninety Then I had to 357 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: go les third, second, First York, which it's a long 358 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: walk for for a New Yorker, especially when you're working 359 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: at a job you don't want to be at and 360 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: the rest of it. Um. But anyway, then, uh, and 361 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: I just did all sorts of just any gi like 362 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: name a job, like I pretty much did it. But 363 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: then what I had to do to get on stage 364 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: once the sort of age out of the bringer thing, 365 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: your friends are like, yeah, I've heard all those jokes. 366 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to come to shows anymore. 367 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: And there's nothing to do with whether you're good or not. 368 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: It's just like it just is. The other way you 369 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: get on stage is your bark. You hand your hand 370 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: out tickets and uh, you hand out tickets, usually in 371 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: Times Squares where most of it went down. And I'm 372 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: sure you've been harassed. So you did that, You would 373 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: stand in Times Square. And I did that for like 374 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: eight or ten years, six six nights a week, sometimes 375 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: twice a night, two hours a night, and often in 376 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: the early years of that you didn't get paid either. 377 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: So you're dragging people into these clubs just with the 378 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: hope of getting you know, seven minutes of stage. Then 379 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: and I did that for a couple of years, and 380 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: then this was the first moment that my my business 381 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: sense that I think has led me here now kicked in. 382 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: I realized that I was out here with all these 383 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: other comics, some of them whom were pretty good. Um, 384 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: most of the guys from my crew have all disappeared. 385 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: And it's just a sad thing about comedy that often 386 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 1: the best guys just they can't hack it anymore, like 387 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: the true artists and the ones that are truly doing 388 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: something amazing get to a point where it just breaks them. 389 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: So out of my crew, um, we had some really 390 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: really talented people. The only one who really broke through 391 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: I guess I had now. But the only other one 392 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: Melissa Routs, who you probably know is that on a 393 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: Big Bang Theory m. She was at my crew. I 394 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: remember seeing her the first night and I said to her, 395 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: you were going to be the star because she could 396 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: do voices and she was just a great talent and 397 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: she's a great girl. Um, but basically just bark being 398 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: handed out these tickets. And then finally I was like, 399 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: why am I doing this so that somebody else can 400 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: be taken all the cash here? So me and a 401 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: couple of other comics, um, we found a failing restaurant. 402 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: It was called Joe Franklin's Memory Lane, and Joe Franklin 403 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: was an old school New York sort of like a 404 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: Larry King type of, like a local local guy. Any 405 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: of this restaurant that just every night, and they had 406 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: a back room about eight seats, and we started a 407 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: six night a week to show a night comedy club there. 408 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: It became so successful that we ended up taking over 409 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: the entire restaurant, and then we had two shows going. 410 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: And then that became so successful that there's a t 411 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: g I Fridays on fifty and seventh, which is the 412 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: world's largest t Yeah, I know exactly, and it's right 413 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: probably yeah, yeah, you've probably get there right what your 414 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: audience may know it as is the building next to 415 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: it is now Barkley's Building, which was Lehman Brothers before 416 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: the crash and everything. It's a really iconic. It's glowing 417 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: and crazy lights and everything. But anyway, there was a 418 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: room down there about a hundred fifty seats. So we 419 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: left our B list comics that Joe Franklin's Comedy Club. 420 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: We took our best guys went there six nights a week, 421 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: two shows a night, so I was basically running two clubs. 422 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: I was making real money. We were splitting the first 423 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: time you actually started to make real money. First time 424 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: I started making real money, I was. We were splitting 425 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: money between the comics, So comics started making money. We 426 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: had no management, so I was doing twenty five minutes 427 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: sets when most guys were doing six minutes set. We did. 428 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: We did great stuff, and we actually became so successful 429 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: that the reason it ended was because of our success. 430 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: Because then the big clubs realized, whoa, these comics, they're 431 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: just dragging people in off the street. You know, We're 432 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: literally just pulling people in, you know. And then the 433 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: it was the Laugh Factory. We were on fifty and seventh. 434 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: The Laugh Factory opened up a couple of blocks south, 435 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: and then Broadway Comedy Club I think, opened a couple 436 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: of blocks more. And then they just had more money 437 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: behind them and had more an army of people that 438 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: could hand out tickets, so they just nipped us off. 439 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: And then the whole thing crumbled, and then I moved 440 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: on to some others off. But I look back on 441 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: it with like tremendous fondness now, like those are the 442 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: good old days. Be sure to catch live editions about 443 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: Kick the coverage with Clay Travis week days at six 444 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 1: am Eastern three am Pacific. We're talking to Dave Reuben 445 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: at Reuben Show on Twitter. This is the Wins and 446 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: Losses Podcast. I'm Clay Travis. Do you remember having a 447 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: moment where you're like, I don't know if I'm going 448 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: to continue as a comedian? Like, was there any kind 449 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: of epiphany moment where you were like this and maybe 450 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: what age? Like, how how does that happen? How do 451 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: you end up where you are now? Because you obviously, 452 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: in order to be a comedian, you have to really 453 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: put your heart and soul into it, right into performing 454 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: for years. You have to give it everything you've got. 455 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: And you know, it's funny because most of your audience 456 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: listen to this. If they know me, they probably don't 457 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: know me from comedy. It's actually only in the last 458 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: year now that I'm getting back into comedy and I'm 459 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: selling out clubs across the country. And I'm telling you, truly, Clay, 460 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: you gotta come sometime. I'll bring you on statie. Yeah. 461 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: Usually what I usually do now, because i'm selling out 462 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: these clubs, I do about an hour solo and I'm 463 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: really just messing with the crowd, and I do a 464 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: ton of likely incorrect stuff and and and talk about 465 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: all social justice and all this nonsence, and then usually 466 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: I bring on a friend at the end. So I've 467 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: brought on Jordan Peterson. I brought on the Weinstein brothers 468 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: and Ben Shapiro and a bunch of people, and I 469 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: just get people to to see us in a in 470 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: a different way. We'll do it. So we'll do it. 471 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: Do it because I need to. I need to get 472 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: back to Nashville. That that picture, by the way in 473 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: my bathroom, that's from the Yeah. So I remember right 474 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: around when these two clubs opened on both sides of us, 475 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 1: and suddenly our numbers were dropping and we were going 476 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: from a hundred fifty people at the show, then it 477 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: was eighty, then it was for me then and then 478 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: suddenly it was like seven and the money was gone 479 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: and it was depressing and all that. I remember thinking 480 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: one day like, could it be possible that I've given 481 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,959 Speaker 1: everything I have into this and I'm good at it? 482 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: And I'm good I was at one time. I was 483 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: like they told me, I'm I don't know if this 484 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: is totally true, but I was the youngest comic ever 485 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: passed that the comedy Seller, which was the Comedy Siller 486 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: down on Bleaker Street, is like, that's like the premoke, 487 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: that's like the really the one that matters in the city. 488 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: That's like the hip cool club. And I was right 489 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: out of college got past their immediately. If anything, I 490 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: got past too early, because you should have him a 491 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: lot more years I do to really do it at 492 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: that level. Um. But I remember thinking, could I give 493 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: something everything I have got, be good at it, have 494 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: done everything, and be doing something different and real and 495 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: all of those things, and then have it not work? 496 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,479 Speaker 1: Could that be what reality is? And when I started 497 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: coming in, when you start, I think everyone has some 498 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: moment like that in their life, when that thing that 499 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: you've believed in comes into conflict with reality. And I 500 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: remember there was this other comic. His name is Brian Bombly. 501 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: He he was a decent comic, not great decent. I've 502 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: seen him a couple of times over the last couple 503 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: of years, and he's he's just a normal guy. Now, 504 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: he's got a regular job and a family, lives in Jerseys. Happy. Um. 505 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: But one of those nights, as that was kind of 506 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: all crumbling around us, he said to me, and he 507 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: almost had a tear in his eye. He said, Dave, 508 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: this wasn't supposed to happen to you. And I was like, oh, 509 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: Like he kind of was looking around like yeah, some 510 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: of these guys are good. I'm okay. He's like, Dad, 511 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: you're good, Like this wasn't supposed to happen. And I 512 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: remember like like I felt a pain, like in my heart, 513 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: like holy shit, it's and you'r how old at this point, 514 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: this is probably like late late twenties. It might have 515 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: been even the early thirties at this point, it was 516 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: probably early thirty. I mean, you're grinding a way for 517 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: a decade at this Like I gave it everything I 518 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 1: had and then and then from that point then I 519 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: started realizing, Okay, there's got to be a different way 520 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: to do this. And this is where I think it 521 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: makes sense sort of how I ended up here, because 522 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: then I started realizing, you know, none of these guys 523 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: are getting on the Tonight Show anymore. You're like, when 524 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, when Leno took over the Tonight Show, there's 525 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: no stories of Leno putting the comment next to him 526 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: and the guy getting the show. Maybe that's a fault 527 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 1: of Leno. Maybe it's just the way the business was changing, 528 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: the way the economics of people getting less sitcoms because 529 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: they were more reality shows. I mean, whatever it is. 530 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: But I started thinking, this doesn't make sense. You've got 531 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: guys in comedy clubs all trying to perfect this five 532 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: minute set so that they can get on a show 533 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: that doesn't put them on, so that they can get 534 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: a sitcom that doesn't even exist anymore, you know. And 535 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: from that, I was like, there's gotta be another way 536 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: to do this. And also the way I had always 537 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: done stand up. People used to say to me, like, 538 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: do you have a tight five, And be like, I 539 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: don't have a type five, but I have a freaking 540 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: great half hour, a messy half hour that will be 541 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: like nothing you've ever seen before. And and I never 542 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: had any stage fright er. I can get up in 543 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,239 Speaker 1: front of thousand people and just whatever popped into my head, 544 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: I could just kind of figure out something. It's just 545 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 1: the way I've always done it, and everyone, you know, 546 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: everyone does it different. There's a do you re see 547 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: the Uh the Seinfeldt documentary comedian and he put it 548 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: out out there when he UH finished the sitcom there's 549 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: a great moment with him and Gary Shandling and they're 550 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: drive into a gig and Jerry's got his notepad and 551 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, like Hitler would have been proud 552 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: of the decision, you know, and Gary and Jerry turns 553 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: to Gary and he's like, what do you have it? 554 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: Gary pulls out like this crumbled piece of paper and 555 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: pockets like I think I was gonna do this, you know, 556 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: And like so I was much more that version of it. 557 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: And it just depends what you like and what your 558 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 1: creative process and all that. But then it was at 559 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: the beginnings of when my Space was starting, and I 560 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: heard this word podcast and a few other things, and 561 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: then I just started just being a little more active 562 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: in that world. I thought, if I could just get 563 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: a couple of followers in this world now Twitter starting, 564 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: if I could get a couple of people to start 565 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: following me. Well, you go to a comedy club, it's like, 566 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: no matter how funny you are, they're gonna go, ah, 567 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: you know that guy who went on fifth out of 568 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: the eight, you know, you had brown hair. He was 569 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: kind of funny, but they're not gonna remember your You 570 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: could could you could do a carl and Masque perfect Yeah, 571 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: and they just won't remember you are. It's just how 572 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: it is. So I started thinking, you know, if I 573 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: could start getting some followers on some of these things, 574 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: and then people then then tweet out a little silly 575 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: thing here and there that actually starts having more worth 576 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: than than doing the clubs every night. So I started 577 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: moving in that direction. Eventually I started doing a podcast, um, 578 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: and then some of those things started leading ultimately to 579 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: what got me t l A, which was doing a 580 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: show with the Young Turks, which now really feels like 581 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: a whole lifetime ago, and that's only six and a 582 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: half years ago. So as part of that process, you start, 583 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: let's go back up personally. So, uh, you're gay. I 584 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: don't think that's a massive secret. When did you by 585 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: far the most bored, But when did you like sort 586 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: of come out for lack of better term, asister during college? 587 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: Was before college? Like, um, well, it's funny, you know, 588 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm writing my book, right, it's not 589 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: that personal in my book, but I am actually relating. 590 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm really trying to do 591 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: is relate being in the closet about sexuality related to 592 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: a political classic that I think so many people are 593 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: in right now. Sure a huge amount of your listeners 594 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: are in that where they're going. I have a couple 595 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: of thoughts that are outside of wolkedom, and you're calling me, 596 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: I don't saint Donald Trump is hitler, And it's like 597 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: you maybe you think that, but you're like, I'm do 598 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: not say that at work because you think about that, 599 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: Think think how what that does to the average person 600 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: when you can't say something that you think right. So 601 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: that's what I'm really trying to do with a good 602 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: portion of the book is is relate these two things. 603 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: Because you're a gay comedian, and most people when they 604 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: hear gay comedian, they think like, oh, that guy's got 605 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: to be like the locust person on the planet, right, 606 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: And you're probably surrounded by But I bet when you 607 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: saw even from the comedy sphere is a lot of 608 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: those comedians also have thoughts that are similar to yours, 609 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: but they might not be comfortable saying right with that 610 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: entertainment universe. Well, it's funny because when you asked me 611 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: about my comedy life, like to me, the gay part 612 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: doesn't even come up because A because I never addressed it, 613 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: I was still, I was closet and mess, I was struggling. 614 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: My own is that I truly feel like I feel 615 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: more comfortable here talking to you like this than if 616 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: I was doing like a gay podcast that right, I 617 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: would personally much rather talk about sports and politics or 618 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: video games or whatever. Then I don't care about the 619 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: Housewives of bel Air or those things. That a great show, 620 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: by the way, it's close to that name. But my 621 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: wife is a huge fan of all the housewife so 622 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: I see them all well. When I had that's Andy 623 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: Cohen's universe, right, And a lot of people be like, oh, 624 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: Andy Cohen is a gay comedian. Oh he's incredibly woke 625 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: or whatever the personality might be. But it's actually I mean, 626 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: and the reason why I bring it up is because 627 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: I just find it fascinating because it cuts across so 628 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: many different arenas. Right. Oh yeah, and like, so were 629 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: you conscious? You said you're a polyci major, So I 630 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: didn't even you didn't even answer, like, so did when 631 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: did you officially? Yeah? Well, so first off, she was 632 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: quickly on Andy Cohen, um, so I had him on 633 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: my show. So my podcast was doing pretty well, and 634 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: then it got picked up by Sirius XM. Yeah, and 635 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: we were doing it was sort of well, it was 636 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: on the out que channel, the gay channel. You know, 637 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: gay people should have a separate yeah, right, separate. We 638 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: should have a separate channel, you know. And I always 639 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: wanted to be on the political channels, but they put 640 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: us there. But I had Andy Cohen on a couple 641 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: of times, and I've never cared about any of that BRABO. Yeah, 642 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: but the one thing that I did like about him, 643 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: even though I don't care about any of the stuff 644 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: that he's doing, when I've interviewed him, I think twice, 645 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: both times in person, and I thought, this guy, he 646 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: really cares about what he's doing. I don't care about it, 647 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: but I don't have to. He has to do. He 648 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: really does. And I thought, all right, I can accept 649 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: he does a great job that show. But he is 650 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: also is great on stern Um. But it is interesting how, 651 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, like the Ellen degenerous is of the world 652 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: sort of you almost think if you're a gay comedian 653 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: that everybody thinks in that same way. Right. Yeah, Well, 654 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,239 Speaker 1: there's there's a couple of pieces of that. So, first off, Um, 655 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: especially at the time and even now when gay people 656 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: are on television, you're either like this a sexual neuter 657 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: nothing so like Anderson Cooper. Yes, you know what I mean, 658 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: you have no idea really what he thinks about anything. 659 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: He would never you know, on New Year's he's allowed 660 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: to have a drink and then he has a for 661 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: a split second, right right, right right. But there's just 662 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: like this, he's the voice of God and in like 663 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: his sexuality has almost no impact at all. And now 664 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: I look, I'm not saying you're he's the newscaster, so 665 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: I'm not saying his sexuality should. But there's a certain 666 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: thing that he sort of is, is this very a 667 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: sexual neither here nor there anything um, And that's sort 668 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: of what they like. So you can either be an 669 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: over the top gay. So so in comedy especially, it 670 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: was like you could be Mario Cantone and singing show 671 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: tunes and this, and there's many versions of that. You 672 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: could be Paul in sort of a for our time. 673 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: You could be this over the top gay thing. Otherwise 674 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: there was no space. So I remember when I when 675 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: I came out professionally, and the only reason I did 676 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: was because I couldn't live with myself. And I mean 677 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: I just genuinely. It's not that I was doing a 678 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: lot of jokes about dating chicks or anything, but sometimes 679 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: I did, and I started just hating myself. You know. 680 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: I was also also in a good, normal relationship, and 681 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: so my life track, which had always been behind my 682 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: career track, well, then, as I told you, the career 683 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: thing started to stall because the clubs were closing, and 684 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: then my life was getting good. And when my life 685 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: started getting better than my career, I had no idea 686 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: how to function because it had always been the other way, 687 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: with my career instead of my life. So um, but 688 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: when I came out, I remember going to the mainstream 689 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: clubs and then it was like Reubens gay, and it 690 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: was very clear they had no use for me because 691 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: whatever it was that I whatever it is that I 692 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,239 Speaker 1: am this version of gay, which, by the way, there 693 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: are many people like me out there. Um, they like 694 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: their you know, beer, beer, Homer Simpson says, Marge, I 695 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: like my beer called to my homosexuals, flaming and like 696 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: that's kind of what they want. They want this minstrel show, 697 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: not a real human to talk about those things. Um, 698 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: And so that really tripped up my career as well. 699 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: But then I was able to take that mess turn 700 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: it into this podcast, which got me on the gay 701 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: channel on Serious x M. I begged and begged the 702 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: executives put me on any of the political channels. I 703 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: don't care. Put me on the left channel, put me 704 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: on the right channel, so this is the nonpartist channel, 705 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: put me on there. Anything. But they were basically like, 706 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: you're gay, get do your gay thing over there. And 707 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: uh So the reason and the reason I ended that 708 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: show actually series wanted us to stay the re and 709 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: I ended it was because I used to get more 710 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: fan mail from people saying, I love your show. I've 711 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: never heard anything like this before. You're my kind of gay, 712 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah. But they would say, I 713 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: can't share your show because I'm I'm closeted, and I 714 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: started looking this is how messed up. This is the 715 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: people that I'm I'm nothing special, I'm just someone doing 716 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: what I what I'm doing. But the people that I'm 717 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: helping most actually are harming me in a certain way 718 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: because they won't share my stuff. And I really but 719 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: but that's also related to the political Yeah, I got it, 720 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: I'll show it to you. I gotta to our peep box. 721 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: A fan sent me this awesome Simpsons poster. He does 722 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: original Simpson's artwork. It's the coolest. It's a map of Springfield, 723 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: but done by like the way you'd see like an 724 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: old school um real estate map, just like blocks of 725 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: property and where everything. It's so cool, it's original. Blabbla. 726 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: He writes me this beautiful note. He's a huge fan. 727 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: I've helped him wake up politically all that stuff. And 728 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: he says, my only word, West is that you don't 729 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: tag me on Twitter and put a picture of this 730 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: because I don't want the mob to come after me. 731 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: And so I sent him a personal email. But like, think, 732 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: how so that's why this this chapter that I'm working 733 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: on right now. Between the closet related you can be 734 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: in the closet related to anything. You could be in 735 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: the closet related to sexuality. You can be in the 736 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: closet related to political positions. You can be in the 737 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: closet related to a medical condition that you have, or 738 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: or just anything that you are hiding from yourself, which 739 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: becomes just sort of an insidious, destructive force. Uh. And 740 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: I can tell you this that the the pain of 741 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: those things or the residual effect of those things. They 742 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: don't you know, they don't just disappear the second you 743 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: kind of start getting better. They stay with you for 744 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: your whole life in many ways, I think. So the 745 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,239 Speaker 1: reason I want to bring that up is you are 746 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,479 Speaker 1: considered all right, right, we haven't even mentioned so far 747 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: right like, but and I am by some people as well, 748 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people listening to us 749 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: right now we'll find that a little bit ludicrous. But 750 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to bring it up because you are gay, 751 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: you are married, right, you are pro choice. I believe 752 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: I'm strugg I'm really struggling with that one. Um. But 753 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: the more the Democrats go crazy with the late term stuff, 754 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: it's becoming I'm starting to see an ethical dilemma that 755 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: I didn't fully see before. I'm also writing about it. 756 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: And once you start, as you know, you started sporing, 757 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: now you start really going, well, what do I really 758 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: think about these things? But but yes, I do consider 759 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: myself a pro choice up into up into a point. Yeah, 760 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: and look, I'm so you were very similar in that 761 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: rights right, So I'm pro pro gay marriage. I am uh, 762 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, pro choice. Although I do think it's interesting 763 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: the way it's getting, you know, even more policy I 764 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: than it already was. It feels like I don't know 765 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: where you are on the death penalty. But I mean, 766 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: so these are all things that traditionally would be like right, 767 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: and yet I think both of us have had this 768 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: sort of you know, it's colloquially, I guess the red 769 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,720 Speaker 1: pill moment right from the reference to to the matrix 770 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: back in the day. When did you start to have 771 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: sort of your red pill moment? Was it gradual? You know, 772 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: you're in the comedy scene, you are in the entertainment universe, 773 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,439 Speaker 1: you moved to Hollywood. Uh, you know you talk about 774 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people I think in the entertainment 775 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: industry who are in the closet not about their sexuality 776 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: but about their politics. Um so when did this start 777 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: to happen for you? Well? I always describe it as 778 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: if you were looking at my baseball card. You'd have 779 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: my picture on the front, and then you look at 780 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: the back, and the back you'd see the stats and 781 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: you'd go, wait a minute, game married, pro choice against 782 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: the death penalty, pro legalizing leading for performing, the prison system, 783 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: of all those things, and all those things we agree with, right, 784 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: although those things, so you go, this makes no sense. 785 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: But because I would say under my neigme would say, 786 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: Dave Rubin, all right on the front and the stats, 787 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: and you go, wait, this makes no sense. And that's 788 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: what I have always said about the people who attack 789 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: me to that that it's just ludicrous. But but that's why. 790 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: But that's why I think, like when I found someone 791 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: like you, where I found someone like Handi's Owens or 792 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: a couple of other people that I really identify with, 793 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: regardless of whether we agree on everything or not, I'm like, 794 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,320 Speaker 1: there's something beautifu full happening here, and we have to 795 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: figure out how to nurture it. Because we come from 796 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, on my lifelong New York 797 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: or you're from Nashville, you're one of the sports world, 798 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, straight gay, all those nonsensical markers. But 799 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: it's like, intellectually, we can't and and and that thing 800 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 1: there's it's not a coincidence that we're both thriving right 801 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: now in crazy times. That's not a coincidence. It's actually 802 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: evidence that we're doing something right. But but to answer 803 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,399 Speaker 1: your questions, there were a couple of moments that really 804 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 1: broke me out of And now I come from a 805 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: family of New York liberals, but but not woke liberals. 806 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: They were liberals in the best sense of it. They 807 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: were liberals. My parents now are liberals in the JFK 808 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: sense of liberalism. That's not what your country can do 809 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: for you, as where you can do for your country. 810 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: They loved Mayor Ed Cootch, who was a good old 811 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: fashioned liberal. They loved Daniel Patrick moynihan, m real liberals 812 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 1: that liberals meaning live and let live, but the government 813 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: has some use utility to do certain things. Right. Um. 814 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,479 Speaker 1: I think what happened to me was when I moved 815 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: out here and I was still was a liberal and 816 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: the lefty and the whole thing. It was when gay 817 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: marriage was really hot, so before it got past and 818 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: I started working at the Young Turks and they were 819 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: pretty far left progressive network, but they were so slamming 820 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: their fists down about gay marriage in such a passionate way. 821 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: That was for something that was so personal to me 822 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: that I thought, these these are liberals on steroids and 823 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: it was good. It struck me as good. It's like 824 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: maybe maybe liberals just needed balls, and that's what these 825 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: people had and all that it crumbled very quickly, because 826 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,720 Speaker 1: there there's a couple of moments that it really crumbled. 827 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: So um, I'll just blow past two, and then i'll 828 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: give you the third one because I've told these stories 829 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: many times. But the first one was when I'm sure 830 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: you've seen this probably was when Sam Harris was on 831 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: Real Time with Bill Maher and he got into that 832 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: fight with Ben Affleck. They were talking about radical Islam, 833 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: and Affleck turns to Bill Maher and Sam Harris. I 834 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: didn't know who Sam Harris was at the time, had 835 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: no idea, but I see this mild mannered neuroscience discussing 836 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: atheism and Bill Maher, who had been one of my 837 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: comic heroes and and the standard bearer of the left ever, 838 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 1: and they talk about radical Islam, making a point don't 839 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: be bigoted towards people Muslims, but you can talk about 840 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: a set of bad ideas the way you criticize Christianity 841 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: or Judaism, or or the Republican platform or anyway else. 842 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: An athlete turned to them and said, you know, you're 843 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: gross and racist, and then and then it was it 844 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: just sort of derailed from there, and what I saw 845 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: happen after that was that the next couple of weeks, 846 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 1: the entire lefty media, HuffPo, media, buzz Feed, everybody was 847 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: saying Bill Maher is racist. Sam Harris is racist. And 848 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: I watch it live. I mean, I've always loved that show. 849 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: I watch it live and I thought, I don't know 850 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: who the hell this guy is, but he's not racist, right, 851 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,760 Speaker 1: And I certainly know that Bill mar is not racist. 852 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: And but watching that feeding frenzy and then even my 853 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: guys on my network started doing it too, and that 854 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: so then it really woke up because I was just like, 855 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: this makes no sense. We have to be able to 856 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: criticize ideas without being bigoted towards people. But even more 857 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,800 Speaker 1: it was that once someone says the racist thing, everyone 858 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: else on the left basically uses it and it excuse 859 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: to do scorched earth everything. So there was there was 860 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: that moment. Then there was I'm actually not totally sure 861 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,479 Speaker 1: of the order of these two because they were pretty close. 862 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: Charlie Hebdo was a few months after that, and I 863 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: was on air at The Young Turks and one of 864 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: the hosts was screaming about how you can't make cartoons. 865 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: You're inciting people, and that the people who don't remember 866 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: that that was like, there's a cartoon making fun of 867 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: the prophet Mohammed and uh and in France and in France, yes, 868 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: And they stormed the house and tried to execute everybody. 869 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,359 Speaker 1: They murdered several cartoonists, they slaughtered some other people. Um 870 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: and this idea though that if you if you do 871 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: something that a certain set of people don't want you 872 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: to do or that are against their religious pieces, that 873 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: you're the bad guy. And there seemed to be more 874 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: sympathy towards them than there were the dead bodies. And 875 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: if you remember during Charlie, there were a couple of 876 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,879 Speaker 1: days where they hadn't found them, and for those couple 877 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: of days, it was like those bodies were still were 878 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: still warm and were and these guys could. They ended 879 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: up killing more people, went to a Kasher supermarket and 880 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: killed some people there, and it's like the sympathy seemed 881 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: to be with them, or or at least with people 882 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: that might be thought of as something like them. And 883 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: I thought this is completely out of whack. One of 884 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,280 Speaker 1: the one of the co hosts on the show started 885 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: screaming something about how the Charlie had there the issues 886 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: were against Islam, and I said to him, I was like, 887 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: I don't know what the percentages, but I guarantee you 888 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 1: it is not. And it's something like this, I'm gonna 889 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 1: slightly butcher the numbers. It's something like out of four 890 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 1: hundred plus covers, it was three about there were far 891 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: more about the pope, far more about orthodox choose and 892 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,399 Speaker 1: by the way they ridiculed everything that was like, that's 893 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: the entire purposes, like there's no sacred cow, so to speak, 894 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: like everything is a target. That was the point that 895 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: in the best sense of what The Simpsons did in 896 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 1: its heyday, where you could literally make fun of everybody, 897 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: the best sense of what Don Rickles would do in 898 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: a comedy club. Oh there's an Irish guy there, there's 899 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: a black guy there, there's a South Park still south 900 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: Park basically still does. Yeah. So then there was that 901 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: one and the one that really sort of was the 902 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 1: final culmination of everything. Do you know a guy by 903 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,879 Speaker 1: the name of David Webb who's serious x M guy. 904 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: He's a he's a conservative, he's on the right leaning 905 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: channel there And when I was a big lefty on 906 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: the gay channel at sex m, but I really wanted 907 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 1: to do politics. I met him and we disagreed on 908 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: basically everything. But he was like, come on, Edi well 909 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: and and I used to go on his radio show 910 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: all the time. He's a black conservative, super nice guy. 911 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,320 Speaker 1: Used to get drunk after and and have whiskey and 912 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: have a good time. And we disagreed on everything. It 913 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: was fine. Well, one day I was on the on 914 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,800 Speaker 1: Turks and they were playing a clip and he I 915 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: think Webb was guest hosting for Sean Hannity that way, 916 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 1: and they're playing the clip of Webb and I don't 917 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: even remember what he was saying. But then suddenly all 918 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: my co hosts were saying, what an uncle Tom, that 919 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: guy is, what a sellout? What you know that personally? 920 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 1: All of the awful things you could say right about 921 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: a concern about a black conservative. And and then that 922 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: was the moment that it fully crystallized, because I was like, 923 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: these people who scream about tolerance all day long, now 924 00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: see a black man who does not think the way 925 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 1: they believe a black man should think, which is prejudice 926 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: because prejudge the fact that he is black. They believe 927 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 1: that that means he should prescribe to a certain set 928 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: of beliefs and they're doing it in the name of tolerance. 929 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 1: And I thought, I know, David, I know this guy. 930 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: I've debated all of these issues with him, and I 931 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: should have said it on air. I didn't. I was 932 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: I was actually so dumb struck that it was happening 933 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: in real time that it like couldn't calibrate properly in 934 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 1: my brain. But that was it. I was like, Holy cow, 935 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: these people, these are these are the new racist And 936 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,879 Speaker 1: I really believe that now. And I hate to It's 937 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,359 Speaker 1: like I don't want to become the thing that we're 938 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 1: always railing and this um, but I think it's important 939 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: to identify that, as you just said to me on 940 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 1: my show, does the KK exists, there's some racists, there's 941 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: some homo folks, all those things. Yes, they have no 942 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: institutional power, they're routinely mocked by everybody. They're not on television, 943 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: they don't have political power. They should be marginalized or ignore. 944 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 1: I would basically say ignore them. But but when they 945 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,800 Speaker 1: show up to do something evil or or whatever, you 946 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: you can counter protests and the rest of it. Um, 947 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 1: But racists exist. It just is. But The new racism 948 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: is what's coming out of the left these days. The 949 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: new racism is that we are going to judge you 950 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:12,840 Speaker 1: by these things. You may have seen this story in 951 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 1: the last couple of days. There was this Detroit rap 952 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,839 Speaker 1: festival and they were going to charge people more than 953 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 1: black people. And one of the black young woman rappers, 954 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: young female rappers, she was like, I'm not gonna do this. 955 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: My one of my grandmother's is white. And it's like, well, 956 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: you said this a couple of times in our hour. 957 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,759 Speaker 1: This idea that this thing will it has to just 958 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: crush itself because it's so antithetical to logic that there's 959 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,640 Speaker 1: so many competing things happening that it will eat itself. 960 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 1: And it's just like what the question really is, what 961 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: will it take down in the process of in this 962 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 1: disruptive and in sports is an interesting microcosm of this 963 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: because we've talked about it like if you have someone 964 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 1: and Caitlyn Jenner now is a good example because I 965 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 1: wrote about this in the book Bruce Jenner in the 966 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: nineties seventies, if he had decided to become Caitlyn Jenner 967 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: and tried to Pete in the Olympics, he was the 968 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,319 Speaker 1: best male athlete in the world, and what he does 969 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,439 Speaker 1: did he would be like I mean it, not even 970 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: any in the same stratosphere for the women if he 971 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: had decided to flip and you avoid asking those questions, 972 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,800 Speaker 1: right like his sports as an ultimate meritocracy, but the 973 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,719 Speaker 1: meritocracy is divided as men or women right now. If 974 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 1: you want to say, okay, we won't have a line 975 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: between men's and women's sports, then women won't play sports. 976 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: But they won't make any of the high school teams 977 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: most of the time in soccer or basketball, certainly not 978 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: in football, volleyball, whatever you want to play, because men 979 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: are bigger, stronger, and faster than women. And that's not 980 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,839 Speaker 1: If you want to argue biology as sexist, you can 981 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: have with it. But like that is that, That's the 982 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,239 Speaker 1: universe that we live in, and I wonder when it's 983 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,360 Speaker 1: going to blow up on itself because the logic falls 984 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: apart as you follow it down its course. And that 985 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:51,919 Speaker 1: is what I started to see happening in the world 986 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: of sports. And I say, my, you know, sort of 987 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,879 Speaker 1: red pill moment was the University of Missouri protests, which 988 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 1: were based in totally lies, and everybody he covered them, 989 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: and the football team doesn't play and everything else, and 990 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: when you actually examine all the factual underpinnings, it's a 991 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 1: house of cards. There's nothing there. Well, that's the thing, 992 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,240 Speaker 1: And that's why the red pill analogy really works, because 993 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,840 Speaker 1: Morpheus is giving Neo the choice, do you want to 994 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: go back and sleep and have some level of comfort 995 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: in the world and in your existence, or do you 996 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: want to see the world as it is, not as 997 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: you want it to be, but as it is, and 998 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: then figure out how to function in that world. And 999 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: obviously we know what Neo does. He takes the red pill. 1000 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: And I think for most of the people that probably 1001 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: like what we do. I think what we're doing at 1002 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: the moment is this is another thing I'm writing about, 1003 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,320 Speaker 1: is we're giving There's there's a major bravery deficit in 1004 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 1: the world right now. I don't know exactly why it is. 1005 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 1: It has something to do with an amorphous mob that 1006 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 1: will come and destroy People are terrified of losing their 1007 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 1: jobs over a Facebook post, Twitter post, and then it's like, 1008 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: so guys like us come around and I don't know 1009 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 1: what it is, Like maybe we could do we could 1010 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: get a whole crew of like twenty of us and 1011 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,920 Speaker 1: do like a mass therapy session. We'll find out that. 1012 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: You know, when we were all seven years old, the 1013 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: bully came around and you guys didn't let him bully 1014 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,239 Speaker 1: like like some something who writes what it is. But 1015 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 1: I think that that people are sort of outsourcing their 1016 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 1: bravery these days, which which is a weird thing. Again, 1017 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: I don't think, um anyone special other than I'm just 1018 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: doing what I think I should do. So I think 1019 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,919 Speaker 1: all of these things lead to a weird place where 1020 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: people from the sports world and the political world, and 1021 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: now I see it. I have a friend I lived 1022 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,440 Speaker 1: upstairs from me in New York City. His whole life lefty, lefty, lefty, crazy, 1023 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,239 Speaker 1: progressively his whole life. He's get this, You'll love this. 1024 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,800 Speaker 1: He's about fifty two years old. He is a straight 1025 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: male choreographer on Broadway. UM, I probably even shouldn't have 1026 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: said that because there's so few. I'm probably not, but 1027 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,360 Speaker 1: he was, and he's done major stuff and major stuff 1028 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,520 Speaker 1: on TV, and he was in effect told in the 1029 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,399 Speaker 1: last year or so start looking for a new line 1030 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,760 Speaker 1: of work, because why would anyone ever hire a straight 1031 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: male choreograph, straight white male choreographer. Now, ironically, if you 1032 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,239 Speaker 1: care about diversity, that's the first because they're all gay. 1033 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: They're all gay, and most of them are not white anymore, 1034 00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: and all that nobody cares. Nobody cares about you you care. 1035 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,319 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the thing. They've tricked everyone into thinking 1036 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 1: that we all care about these things. And you know, 1037 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,120 Speaker 1: it's like I just traveled the world for a year 1038 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: with Jordan Peterson and I'm supposed supposedly he's all right, 1039 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: and we're you know, speaking of angry racist and it's 1040 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 1: like all it was a LoveFest, like you could not believe. 1041 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,520 Speaker 1: Every single night, every single night, Fox Sports Radio has 1042 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all 1043 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,719 Speaker 1: of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and 1044 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: within the I Heart Radio app search f s R 1045 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,360 Speaker 1: to listen live. You talked about the way that the 1046 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,719 Speaker 1: Bill Mars story was covered by like the Huffington Post 1047 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,279 Speaker 1: and all these different places. You regularly get attacked in 1048 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 1: the media. I regularly get attacked in the media. Why 1049 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,840 Speaker 1: do you think that happens? Well, I think that that 1050 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,640 Speaker 1: because we just went through and said, like all of 1051 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,480 Speaker 1: the things, like if you put our political beliefs on 1052 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 1: a baseball card on the back. You would be like, 1053 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 1: I'm curious why that is, because I think both of 1054 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,759 Speaker 1: us are very middle of the road, right, but in 1055 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 1: a weird way, we're the biggest threat to them. And 1056 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: that's an interesting point, right, So if you're middle of 1057 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,839 Speaker 1: the road now, and especially so, the one, the one 1058 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: identity politics thing that I have over you is the 1059 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 1: is the gay thing, right, so they have none. By 1060 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,239 Speaker 1: the way, was a straight white guy, I'm like that 1061 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: on the victim victimization pyramid, I'm nowhere near the tip, 1062 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,320 Speaker 1: so they can pin you a little bit more easily 1063 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:28,800 Speaker 1: than you know what I mean, like that, that's a 1064 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,279 Speaker 1: little bit more easy. The reason that that I get 1065 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,520 Speaker 1: as much hate as I do, and I'm even seeing 1066 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,680 Speaker 1: it from some of the good liberals now where they're 1067 00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 1: turning on me a little bit, because it's something that 1068 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: you referenced earlier on my show is they will always 1069 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,440 Speaker 1: try to throw something else under the bus to extend 1070 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: their life, their shelf life basically, and that's what they're 1071 00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 1: always doing. Now what they I don't know if they 1072 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,400 Speaker 1: know it or not, but ultimately you're just pulling the 1073 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,759 Speaker 1: pins out from underneath your own your own foundation. Let's say, um, 1074 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,200 Speaker 1: I think basically what's happening here is that for me, 1075 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,839 Speaker 1: it's like they look at the baseball car, gay guy, 1076 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,440 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, all these liberal beliefs. But I survived. 1077 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,160 Speaker 1: I talk about their nonsense, and I survived, and not 1078 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,320 Speaker 1: only the survive, I thrived. So they really have to 1079 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 1: extract the high cost on me. So when when they're 1080 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 1: throwing down hate on me, it's not really that they're 1081 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,439 Speaker 1: trying to destroy me anymore. I do think in some ways, 1082 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,840 Speaker 1: I've I want to knock on wood when I say this, 1083 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,120 Speaker 1: but I sort of feel like I've I've crossed the threshold. 1084 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,200 Speaker 1: You survive, I'll where I'll be okay, right, and I 1085 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,319 Speaker 1: know how to deal with it. What they're really trying 1086 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 1: to do is signal to everybody else you see what 1087 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 1: we're gonna do to you if you try. And that's 1088 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,280 Speaker 1: why they hate on Candice is so out of control. 1089 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,399 Speaker 1: All Candice is doing. Look, I don't agree with everything 1090 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,560 Speaker 1: she said. She sent out a tweet about, um, if 1091 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,040 Speaker 1: you burn the flag, you know you've got like a 1092 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,960 Speaker 1: year to like give up your citizen over the top 1093 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:44,560 Speaker 1: and nuts and by the way, I'm having dinner there 1094 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:45,680 Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks and I'll bring it up. 1095 00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,400 Speaker 1: You know. It's like people were like, you better condemn her, 1096 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:53,240 Speaker 1: publicly condemn her. I don't want better publicly condemned my friends. 1097 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: You know. It's like I can defer everything that they 1098 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,440 Speaker 1: disagree with. It's like it's so stupid, but but like 1099 00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 1: we disagreed when we went out to dinner. I don't 1100 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,560 Speaker 1: think she like they had the Guardians of the Galaxy 1101 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,279 Speaker 1: guy had lost his remember that Disney Yeah, and I 1102 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:07,839 Speaker 1: was like, I think they gave it back to him. 1103 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,120 Speaker 1: And my thing is like, I don't want to set 1104 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,600 Speaker 1: the precedent of going through every single word that everybody's 1105 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,719 Speaker 1: ever said. The guy's a good director, right, I loved 1106 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,480 Speaker 1: Guardians of the Galaxy one and Guardians of the Galaxy 1107 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: to same thing. Kevin Hard I think is a pretty 1108 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:21,920 Speaker 1: good comedian. I think he should have been able to 1109 00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,279 Speaker 1: host the Oscar. Of course he was standing what he 1110 00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,480 Speaker 1: said ten years ago on Twitter, right, So he makes 1111 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,400 Speaker 1: some gay jokes ten years ago on Twitter, and then 1112 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,440 Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is how perverse and twisted 1113 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 1: this thing is. He then goes on Ellen de Generous, 1114 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,200 Speaker 1: America's favorite lesbian, goes on her show, she says, you're good, 1115 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,359 Speaker 1: I understand, and then what do they do? They try 1116 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,759 Speaker 1: to destroy her for accepting his apology, and it's like, 1117 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,480 Speaker 1: what what do you people want? You people mock religious 1118 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,719 Speaker 1: people all the time, and yet religious people have a 1119 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,239 Speaker 1: redemption narrative, you have some forgiveness matters all of these things. 1120 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 1: You guys have become far worse than those things. But 1121 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,759 Speaker 1: the hell was the question there? Uh? I was? We 1122 00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 1: were tying in, like talking about the the why the targets. 1123 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 1: Oh so, so I think partly it's that so I've 1124 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: escaped Candice's messages. Black people don't have to be democrats. 1125 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,640 Speaker 1: Any sane person would think that's a totally reasonable message. 1126 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,759 Speaker 1: But but they have to extract a high cost on her. 1127 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,719 Speaker 1: You can't just be a black girl saying what you 1128 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,120 Speaker 1: think and just walk out there and right. So they 1129 00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:21,400 Speaker 1: so they say that modern liberalism has actually caused more problems, 1130 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, like, yeah, trust me. And it's 1131 00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:25,520 Speaker 1: not fun for me to say that, you know, And 1132 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,279 Speaker 1: I I say this all the time. I would love 1133 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,360 Speaker 1: to be proven wrong here. If the ending of my 1134 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:35,160 Speaker 1: story and my success is that the left somehow reconstitutes 1135 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,640 Speaker 1: itself brings brings the roots of liberalism back, and I 1136 00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,600 Speaker 1: my choice was, which is what I say all the time. Now, 1137 00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,040 Speaker 1: I see so much more opportunity on the right to 1138 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,239 Speaker 1: talk to the never trumpers as well as the MAGA people, 1139 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,239 Speaker 1: as well as the conservatives and the libertarians and the 1140 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,440 Speaker 1: and caps. There's such an interesting fight of ideas happening there. 1141 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,680 Speaker 1: And I get invited to all of these things. I 1142 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,800 Speaker 1: get standing ovations despite telling them five policies that I 1143 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,640 Speaker 1: disagree with them on. I can't get one invite the 1144 00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,840 Speaker 1: other one. Oh, it's fascinating. But if I if I 1145 00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,560 Speaker 1: get proven wrong at the end of this, if liberalism 1146 00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:09,000 Speaker 1: returns and I'm wrong because it is returned being reconstituted 1147 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 1: from the left, I will have a mea culpa. I 1148 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 1: will retire and disappear. You'll never hear from me again. 1149 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,719 Speaker 1: And I promise you I'd be thrilled. I'll be in 1150 00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:21,399 Speaker 1: the NBA W n uh. So, how did you meet 1151 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,600 Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson and how did that tour come about? And 1152 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:26,800 Speaker 1: what was the experience like on your life? And for 1153 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:28,920 Speaker 1: people out there who might not know Jordan Peterson because 1154 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,719 Speaker 1: they're listening to us right now, who is he? And 1155 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:33,640 Speaker 1: and it kind of how did how did he climb? 1156 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,839 Speaker 1: In relevant? So, Jordan's is a Canadian psychologist who had 1157 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,200 Speaker 1: a clinical practice and as well as he was teaching 1158 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:41,440 Speaker 1: at University of Toronto, but he had taught at Harvard 1159 00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,960 Speaker 1: before and had a great academic career for like thirty years. 1160 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 1: But a normal, brilliant guy, but a normal dude otherwise, 1161 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,319 Speaker 1: a normal academic career, like was not somebody chasing fame 1162 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,680 Speaker 1: or any of those things. Then a couple of years ago, 1163 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,600 Speaker 1: there was this bill trying to be passed in Canada, 1164 00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:00,800 Speaker 1: Bill C seventeen, which would have criminalized either by financial 1165 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,160 Speaker 1: penalty or potentially even jail, if you mis gendered someone. 1166 00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:06,799 Speaker 1: Literally if you walked up down and you were walking 1167 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,279 Speaker 1: down the street and you said hi, mam, and it 1168 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,880 Speaker 1: turned out to be a guy, that would have been 1169 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,640 Speaker 1: a crime. And all he said was, I have no 1170 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,759 Speaker 1: problem with trans people. I'm a clinical psychologist. I've dealt 1171 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,600 Speaker 1: with these issues, but I do not want the government 1172 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,200 Speaker 1: to uh to be able to impose speech, and certainly 1173 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:25,800 Speaker 1: I don't want the governments be able to punish you 1174 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,400 Speaker 1: for it. That then became an incredibly controversial thing. Everyone 1175 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,120 Speaker 1: says he's a transphobe, he's a homophobe, blah blah blah. 1176 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,239 Speaker 1: And then what happened was, I'm sure it's the way 1177 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,279 Speaker 1: it is for for you to when you start finding 1178 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,160 Speaker 1: out about people, you start seeing something bubbling up on Twitter, 1179 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:41,800 Speaker 1: and people kept saying, Ruby, you gotta talk to this 1180 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:46,840 Speaker 1: Peterson guy. This was in um November of sixteen, so 1181 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: like days before the wasted Yeah, and we had just 1182 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,440 Speaker 1: moved into this house on November one, so my studio 1183 00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,799 Speaker 1: was being built and I didn't have a studio yet, 1184 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,719 Speaker 1: so I did a Google hang out with him. I 1185 00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,400 Speaker 1: had never met him in person. First time we ever 1186 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,239 Speaker 1: said hello. We had a crappy internet connection here. It's 1187 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 1: popping in and out the whole time. It's it's pixelated 1188 00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,399 Speaker 1: our audios. Off, I do an hour talk with this guy, 1189 00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,319 Speaker 1: talking about psychology and gender projects and all these things. 1190 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,960 Speaker 1: He tells a story about which he tells off and 1191 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,600 Speaker 1: now this story about the story of Pinocchio and that 1192 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:17,560 Speaker 1: you have to wish upon a star and what lying 1193 00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,240 Speaker 1: can do all these things, and he's crying. He's literally 1194 00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,760 Speaker 1: crying as he's doing it. And we finished the interview 1195 00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,520 Speaker 1: and I turned to David, who was my husband and producer, 1196 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,800 Speaker 1: and I said that guy is either an absolute genius 1197 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,600 Speaker 1: or completely insane. There's no middle ground perfect I don't 1198 00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:35,759 Speaker 1: know which it is. Subsequently, over the last couple of years, 1199 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,799 Speaker 1: I've I've interviewed him many times, we did a couple 1200 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,120 Speaker 1: of public speaking things together, and then he wrote this book. 1201 00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,319 Speaker 1: It's right there. It's called Clover Rules for Life, which 1202 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,880 Speaker 1: is basically it's it's the under title or the secondary 1203 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,120 Speaker 1: title is an antidote to chaos, And basically he's trying 1204 00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,719 Speaker 1: to tell people just get you know, everyone wants to 1205 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,160 Speaker 1: fix the world first. Everyone wants to just I can 1206 00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,719 Speaker 1: fix everything. I know all the policies that can fix everything. 1207 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:00,440 Speaker 1: How do you fix yourself first? How don't you make 1208 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,160 Speaker 1: sure you wearing a shirt that fits? How about you 1209 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,880 Speaker 1: have a haircut that that is right? You know what 1210 00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:05,279 Speaker 1: I mean? How about you brush your teeth like some 1211 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:10,279 Speaker 1: some seriously basic thing, but that somehow, especially for young men. 1212 00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,040 Speaker 1: But it's not just young man. I mean the media 1213 00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:13,920 Speaker 1: tries to portray it that he's just talking to angry 1214 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 1: young men, and because it's just not true. But he 1215 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,640 Speaker 1: has given something to people that I've now seen all 1216 00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,800 Speaker 1: over the world. I've seen we've performing in front of 1217 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,520 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people who desperately needed this message 1218 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:30,000 Speaker 1: of personal responsibility and taking pride in yourself and and 1219 00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,280 Speaker 1: that the individual is the the essence of Western society 1220 00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,359 Speaker 1: and all of those things. The way we ended up 1221 00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:38,080 Speaker 1: on tour together was I had him in here one 1222 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,160 Speaker 1: day with Ben Shapiro, is the three of us talking. 1223 00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,080 Speaker 1: This is uh last January, so about a year and 1224 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:44,879 Speaker 1: a half ago, and he was doing his first test 1225 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,480 Speaker 1: show at the Orpheum downtown. It's a great theater down 1226 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,399 Speaker 1: about three thousand seats. He was doing it that night, 1227 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:51,840 Speaker 1: and as he was walking out the door and we 1228 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,000 Speaker 1: really just knew each other a little bit. At that point, 1229 00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:55,600 Speaker 1: I said, Hey, you know, if you want me to 1230 00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,239 Speaker 1: come down tonight, I'll warm up the crowd. I'll make 1231 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,160 Speaker 1: some lobster jokes. Because he doesn't lobster and now this 1232 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,400 Speaker 1: or some metaphors, I said, I'll make you. I'll make 1233 00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:04,960 Speaker 1: some jokes and then I'll get out of your way. 1234 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,560 Speaker 1: And he was, without even hesitating, he was like, absolutely, 1235 00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,440 Speaker 1: calm on down. I went down there. I just crushed it. 1236 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,400 Speaker 1: I knew all the right references to make with his 1237 00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,359 Speaker 1: crowd and the whole thing, and all his agents from 1238 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,439 Speaker 1: CIA were there and they came up to me after 1239 00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,239 Speaker 1: and they were like, you know who you with? What 1240 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:20,600 Speaker 1: do you do when I was with W M. E. 1241 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,840 Speaker 1: But I was like, all right, let's move and I 1242 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,279 Speaker 1: went with them. And then the tour started and as 1243 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,839 Speaker 1: I said, a hundred some odd stops and sold out 1244 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,640 Speaker 1: all over the Old Country. And he went over to England. 1245 00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:32,320 Speaker 1: Like we went to England, We went to Denmark, we 1246 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,160 Speaker 1: went to Ireland. We went to Sweden, Copenhagen, Helsinki, um, 1247 00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,040 Speaker 1: we went to Australia. I couldn't go to New Zealand 1248 00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,200 Speaker 1: cause I had some other commitments. I mean, all over 1249 00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,360 Speaker 1: the world. And to see this is the cool thing. 1250 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,160 Speaker 1: So when when we talk about how you come from 1251 00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,160 Speaker 1: a sports perspective and say I come from a political perspective, 1252 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,160 Speaker 1: when you see something else, when you see that some 1253 00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,200 Speaker 1: guy I was buying a cap one day, I was 1254 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,440 Speaker 1: going a hat at H and V in Sweden. I 1255 00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,000 Speaker 1: just needed a hat that day it was windy. I 1256 00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,640 Speaker 1: was like, Harris Brandon, we're getting the at. I go 1257 00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,280 Speaker 1: into HM to buy hat. There's one guy in line 1258 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,000 Speaker 1: and I hear him talking and he's telling the cash here, 1259 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 1: he goes, I'm buying this. He goes, this is my 1260 00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:09,600 Speaker 1: first suit I've ever bought. I'm going to see Jordan 1261 00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,799 Speaker 1: Peterson tonight. And the cashier goes, I'm going to see 1262 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,160 Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson tonight. And then I just walked up behind them. 1263 00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,400 Speaker 1: The cash here is looking at me because I'm standing 1264 00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:20,720 Speaker 1: by the other guy, Dave Reuben, and I was like, 1265 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to see exactly what I said, and I'm 1266 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:25,640 Speaker 1: going to see Jordan peters in tonight too. And that's 1267 00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,240 Speaker 1: when I started realizing, because this this thing kept happening 1268 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,360 Speaker 1: all over the place. Where there was the time we 1269 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,840 Speaker 1: boarded a plane and we're sitting in the front row 1270 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,960 Speaker 1: and uh, this young black guy, probably like years old, 1271 00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,040 Speaker 1: who was working at the airline you had one of 1272 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,160 Speaker 1: the you know, like white vests on. He was working 1273 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,720 Speaker 1: on the bridge or whatever. They were trying to close 1274 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,680 Speaker 1: the door, and he ran up to Jordan said, he said, 1275 00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:48,520 Speaker 1: they could fire me for this, but I've got to 1276 00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,440 Speaker 1: tell you you changed my life. I got this job 1277 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,760 Speaker 1: because you you saved my life. I started caring about 1278 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,640 Speaker 1: myself and all these things, and I saw that relentlessly 1279 00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,560 Speaker 1: happened forever and Uh, it was. It was incredibly changed 1280 00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:02,720 Speaker 1: my life. You can't if you're around something that that, 1281 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,360 Speaker 1: that's that good and real and honest for that long 1282 00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,800 Speaker 1: and it doesn't change your life, You've got no hope. 1283 00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,080 Speaker 1: You know, I will close out here because I know 1284 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,520 Speaker 1: you've got a ton of stud things going on. I 1285 00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,840 Speaker 1: gotta get and do my my television show, which is 1286 00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,040 Speaker 1: a good problem to have to write. Yeah, I say 1287 00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,240 Speaker 1: it all the time. You gotta get onto your television shows. 1288 00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,320 Speaker 1: I gotta go do my television shows. Um, you mentioned 1289 00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:29,000 Speaker 1: those guys, Shapiro, Peterson, yourself, myself, actually a lot of 1290 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,080 Speaker 1: differences of opinion. Yeah, Yet you can have a sit 1291 00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,040 Speaker 1: and have a rational conversation, and I think that's what 1292 00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,200 Speaker 1: appeals to people so much. Why do you think rational 1293 00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:44,040 Speaker 1: conversation has suddenly become the province of what would people say, 1294 00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:45,960 Speaker 1: the Republican Party? It would have been the exact opposite 1295 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,280 Speaker 1: twenty years ago. So these things have been flow, which 1296 00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:49,880 Speaker 1: is why I would tell people not to become too 1297 00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,160 Speaker 1: attached to a party. Rights a party. If you're attached 1298 00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,439 Speaker 1: to a party, you're just attached to a platform, which 1299 00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,440 Speaker 1: is really just attached to a person. Yes, and so 1300 00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:58,080 Speaker 1: you shouldn't be attached to that way you should be 1301 00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,360 Speaker 1: attached to would be a Bay six set of ideals. 1302 00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,080 Speaker 1: So in my case, I believe that the ideas that 1303 00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,880 Speaker 1: I talked about about classical liberalism, I believe are the 1304 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,680 Speaker 1: right set of ideals. Um, we would be a whole 1305 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:11,880 Speaker 1: other show to really dive into into all that stuff. 1306 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,200 Speaker 1: But Shapiro, for example, so Shapiro is Orthodox jew He 1307 00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,920 Speaker 1: is a religious belief that is against gay marriage. Now 1308 00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,320 Speaker 1: there are Christian Conservatives that have that belief, in eventel 1309 00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,560 Speaker 1: and you're not offended by that opinion, right like you 1310 00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,800 Speaker 1: can have that is the very opinion that society for 1311 00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,080 Speaker 1: thousands of years held. Now I could run around and 1312 00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,000 Speaker 1: think that everyone that existed before me was an evil bigoted, 1313 00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,840 Speaker 1: homophobia and a big racist, that all these things or 1314 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:40,240 Speaker 1: and and this is really what I believe. So one 1315 00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,920 Speaker 1: of the nights um that Jordan and I were doing 1316 00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,000 Speaker 1: a different show in l A, I said to Ben, 1317 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,520 Speaker 1: I said, why don't you come on stage tonight? And 1318 00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,120 Speaker 1: we've had this running thing where Ben and I in 1319 00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:49,800 Speaker 1: this very studio which is in my home where I 1320 00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,120 Speaker 1: look with my husband, where I know Ben disagrees with 1321 00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,680 Speaker 1: me from his own personal religious perspective, but by the way, 1322 00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,000 Speaker 1: he takes the libertarian approach when it comes to policy, 1323 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,640 Speaker 1: so he's he wants religion out of it. So I'm 1324 01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,120 Speaker 1: okay with that. Right. We got through under twenty million 1325 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:04,640 Speaker 1: people in this country. They're allowed to believe, but they 1326 01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,240 Speaker 1: want they can't legislate my life. But we've had this 1327 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,200 Speaker 1: running joke about that Ben won't bake me a gay 1328 01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,640 Speaker 1: wedding cake. So I said, Ben, why don't you come 1329 01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:14,440 Speaker 1: on stage tonight. You'll do your I'll bring you on, 1330 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,600 Speaker 1: you'll do your thing. And I said, why don't you 1331 01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,520 Speaker 1: bring me a cake on stage? So I go up there, 1332 01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,680 Speaker 1: do my thing for ten minutes, crowds going nuts um, 1333 01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:25,200 Speaker 1: and then I said, we got a surprise guest bench 1334 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: where he walks out with the cupcake. People are going bananas, 1335 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,080 Speaker 1: I mean bananas. He then he says a couple of 1336 01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,160 Speaker 1: things about giving me this cake. Then he does a 1337 01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,080 Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson impression. He walks off, crowd goes nuts, and 1338 01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,400 Speaker 1: I'm in a room now three thousand people celebrating the 1339 01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,160 Speaker 1: fact that these two people have have a different view 1340 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,400 Speaker 1: online but can break bread or cupcakes with each other. 1341 01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:47,080 Speaker 1: I then look on too. You know, we tweet the 1342 01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:48,840 Speaker 1: video out and a couple of pictures of it, and 1343 01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,360 Speaker 1: you know it good. But because I get so many tweets, 1344 01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:57,040 Speaker 1: there's hundreds of tweets from tolerant progressive saying there's the 1345 01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:59,920 Speaker 1: self hating gay in the home of Phobe and who 1346 01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,680 Speaker 1: is more pathetic or some version of or just you know, 1347 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,040 Speaker 1: all the other words that they can say about us. 1348 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,320 Speaker 1: And this is the flip that I think most people 1349 01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,320 Speaker 1: have to understand about tolerance. So why has it become 1350 01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,280 Speaker 1: so rare? It's because the this woke thing has become 1351 01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,800 Speaker 1: a secular religion. As my friend Peter Bogosian calls it. 1352 01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,880 Speaker 1: There is no redemption narrative, and none of those things exists. 1353 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,480 Speaker 1: They want there's a reason they want to destroy history. 1354 01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:28,040 Speaker 1: There's a reason they want to redefine words like owner 1355 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to NBA owners. There's a reason that 1356 01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,160 Speaker 1: they want to take down monuments. There's a reason that 1357 01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,240 Speaker 1: they want to I mean, isis what does isis do 1358 01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,360 Speaker 1: it goes into Syria and it blows apart things that 1359 01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,560 Speaker 1: have existed for thousands of years. Wait until they come 1360 01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,520 Speaker 1: for Mount Rushmore, because they will the Obama Library, which 1361 01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,840 Speaker 1: is being built now when the radical woke radicals, if 1362 01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,440 Speaker 1: if they win, they will take that now because he 1363 01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,080 Speaker 1: was against gay marriage. You mentioned the one which I 1364 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,160 Speaker 1: think is the one for the next generation when they 1365 01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,760 Speaker 1: find out that we ate meat, we used to kill 1366 01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:02,440 Speaker 1: cattle who are putting methane out into the CEO two 1367 01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:05,160 Speaker 1: and they will look at us the way you might 1368 01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:07,440 Speaker 1: look at your grandparents and think, oh, they didn't know 1369 01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:11,320 Speaker 1: asbestos was was killing them, or like some version of 1370 01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,919 Speaker 1: all of those things. So that's what we have to fight. 1371 01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:17,720 Speaker 1: And and and by the way, I do think that 1372 01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,680 Speaker 1: most people are pretty freaking decent. I think that most 1373 01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,080 Speaker 1: people want to live in a society with other people. 1374 01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,440 Speaker 1: I would much rather talk to people I disagree with um. 1375 01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,160 Speaker 1: As a rule, when I go to colleges, I do 1376 01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,640 Speaker 1: a talk for like an hour, and I always, every 1377 01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,680 Speaker 1: single time, without exception, I say, if you disagree with me, 1378 01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,280 Speaker 1: you come up first to ask a question. And it's 1379 01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,360 Speaker 1: like I keep getting invited by conservatives, but I can't 1380 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,040 Speaker 1: get any of these tolerant lefties or liberals to invite me. 1381 01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:45,480 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe they will one day. The last question for you. 1382 01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:47,280 Speaker 1: We're in l A. We had a couple of earthquakes. 1383 01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:49,720 Speaker 1: Uh were in your studio and looks so like so 1384 01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,360 Speaker 1: far that they are. But what do you think you 1385 01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,680 Speaker 1: said you were a big NBA fan or grew up 1386 01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,520 Speaker 1: a big basketball fan. What do you think about Kauai 1387 01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,280 Speaker 1: and Paul George to the Flippers and now Lebron and 1388 01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,800 Speaker 1: Anthony Davis the Lakers? Will you go to games this year? 1389 01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:05,760 Speaker 1: So I'll give you one just quick NBA thing. I 1390 01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:07,200 Speaker 1: think I told her the last time. So my my 1391 01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,480 Speaker 1: hero in life it was Clyde Drexler, who was on 1392 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:12,520 Speaker 1: the Blazers for years and lost in the finals a 1393 01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:14,480 Speaker 1: couple of times, then lost in the Western Conference finals, 1394 01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:16,280 Speaker 1: and when he was thought of as much older, he 1395 01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:18,720 Speaker 1: was traded to the Rockets and won the championship that year. 1396 01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,960 Speaker 1: And that, um, that story always stuck with me, that 1397 01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,840 Speaker 1: this guy who I loved, who was who was amazing, 1398 01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:28,080 Speaker 1: but but because he was in Portland, was sort of 1399 01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,000 Speaker 1: ignored by the media and he wasn't Jordan's. He just 1400 01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:33,720 Speaker 1: wasn't Jordan's. So he played the same position it wasn't Jordan's, 1401 01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:36,400 Speaker 1: but and he kept getting close, kept getting closed, but 1402 01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,200 Speaker 1: then finally got there. It became ingrained in me that 1403 01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,560 Speaker 1: if I kept doing something, I would get there. And 1404 01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:43,360 Speaker 1: this is in contrast to They're one of my best 1405 01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:45,120 Speaker 1: friends who was a comic by the name of Mike Singer. 1406 01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:46,720 Speaker 1: And you've never heard of Mike Singer, not because he 1407 01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,360 Speaker 1: wasn't a great comic, but he was from Chicago and 1408 01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:51,880 Speaker 1: his whole life he was a huge Cubs fan. And 1409 01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:53,440 Speaker 1: this is before they won the chance, you know, the 1410 01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,240 Speaker 1: World Series. In the last couple of years. Mike's story, 1411 01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:58,320 Speaker 1: the story he had been telling himself his whole life, 1412 01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:00,400 Speaker 1: was based around the Cubs. You're you're never gonna win. 1413 01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,760 Speaker 1: You're never gonna win, and he eventually gave up. And 1414 01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,560 Speaker 1: I think there's a connection there my story that I 1415 01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,760 Speaker 1: told myself. Stories have value, and the athlete who I 1416 01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:11,520 Speaker 1: loved the most. It took him a long as time, 1417 01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:13,360 Speaker 1: and people said he was washed up at that point 1418 01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:15,280 Speaker 1: and he had you know, blah blah blah, but he 1419 01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,720 Speaker 1: got there and that really got ingrained in me. Um So. 1420 01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,120 Speaker 1: As for the As for the Lakers, now, I mean Kauai, 1421 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,200 Speaker 1: the fact that he's you know, bounced around from the 1422 01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,640 Speaker 1: Spurs and then just did this with Toronto. You know, 1423 01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:30,760 Speaker 1: can the Clippers ever really be good? Can the Clippers 1424 01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,880 Speaker 1: actually make a Western Conference finals, and I would love 1425 01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,720 Speaker 1: to go to some games this year. I just haven't 1426 01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,080 Speaker 1: had freaking time, you know. I also, you know I'm 1427 01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:39,880 Speaker 1: doing all right on YouTube, but that kind of money, 1428 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,240 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not like that. Clay Travis cl Over, Hey, look, 1429 01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,440 Speaker 1: I could disappear in a heartbeat, and I think you 1430 01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,000 Speaker 1: will be when the new book comes out. But we 1431 01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:47,600 Speaker 1: need to talk again. We need to go to movie, 1432 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,840 Speaker 1: go to an NBA game, and also when you're in Nashville, 1433 01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:52,360 Speaker 1: we need to hang out. I'm gonna do some stand 1434 01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,160 Speaker 1: up there with all those nice people, and I'll bring 1435 01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:56,760 Speaker 1: you on stage and that'll be awesome. You can follow 1436 01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:58,680 Speaker 1: him if you're not familiar with him. Dave Reuben at 1437 01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:00,720 Speaker 1: Reuben Report. The new book will be out in May. 1438 01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:03,760 Speaker 1: It's coming out in May, and it'll be up on 1439 01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,360 Speaker 1: Amazon and everywhere else soon. You'll share the links. I 1440 01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,320 Speaker 1: can tell you the name. We're like two weeks off. 1441 01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:10,920 Speaker 1: I can't wait to check it out. Seriously, appreciate the time. 1442 01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,560 Speaker 1: I hope people enjoyed our version with you as well. 1443 01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:15,360 Speaker 1: But this is awesome. It's been great to get to 1444 01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,400 Speaker 1: know you. It's nice to do something else in my studio. Yeah, yeah, 1445 01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:19,920 Speaker 1: you've been sitting there. I know you can hill. You 1446 01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:21,800 Speaker 1: don't have to worry. I'll being on camera. H this 1447 01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:24,360 Speaker 1: has been wins and losses. I'm Clay Travis, He's Dave Reuben. 1448 01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:25,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoy it. Let me 1449 01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,320 Speaker 1: know what you think. As always, we'll be back next week. 1450 01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:31,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to catch live editions about 1451 01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,600 Speaker 1: kick the Coverage with Clay Travis week days at six 1452 01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:36,480 Speaker 1: am Eastern three am Pacific